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12-07-2016, 11:40 AM | #21591 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: over here
Posts: 2,092
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Quote:
Actually, there's a fairly long history of women in US SOF combat roles.
The OSS had several women World War II: Women Spies of the OSS | HistoryNet. Blue Light had one: https://sofrep.com/51115/blue-light-...m-unit-part-5/ Sean Naylor in Relentless Strike writes of Delta and ST6 using them in their reconnaissance squadrons - one was far more aggressive and effective in their employment, I can't remember which. Michael Smith in the The Killer Elite writes of the ISA making extensive use of women covert operatives. The CIA has been using women in covert ops roles as long as they've been around. Back to medics real quick, I did some further reading on the Combat Lifesaver Course and I am getting conflicting information. Some sources state ALL soldiers are taught it in Basic Training while other sources state it is an additional optional class taught later and teaches slightly more than the BCT self/buddy aid. So I wonder, which is it? Also I was reading on USMC MOS 0321 (Reconnaissance Marine) and the requirements for both Force Recon and Division Recon. Both Recon's indicate that a Marine needs to have attended the USMC Combatant Diver Course (which would change their MOS to 0324 Reconnaissance Marine, Combat Diver Qualified). So I wonder where do Marines who have attained the 0321 MOS but fail the Combatant Diver Course get placed at? Maybe some sort of support position within Force or Division Recon? |
12-07-2016, 04:12 PM | #21592 |
Commando
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Britain
Posts: 3,827
|
the only women I have in the Black Sword verse Joe team are Scarlett as a CIA liason, Lady Jaye as an ISA operator and Cover Girl, to be added if I ever do a sequel as a Ranger vehicle driver like Clutch, Crankcase and her fellow newb Cross Country.
In my other fic continuing on from the comics, most of the women I've added aren't door-kickers; Amazon is a fighter pilot, along with Bombstrike and Freestlye in the Joe team, the Oktober Guard has Tanya, an intelligence specialist, Katya a communications specialist and Volga who's Daina's co-pilot/gunner in the Yastreb attack copter. The South Americans have Glenda, flying helos and Sparta and Athena in intelligence roles. AF has Quarrel and I've added Thetis a Q-Force WHALE operator, Telstar a Space Force comms specialist, Afterburner, a Space Force fighter pilot, Peregrine a Z-Force Dragonfly pilot, Rose, a Z-Force Tomahawk pilot, Triage, a Z-Force doctor and Shade an SAS Force commando who's from a country that recruited women to its SOF unit in the 1980s. |
12-13-2016, 08:16 AM | #21593 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: over here
Posts: 2,092
|
Quote:
I definitely have women in my Joe team but they mainly serve in Intelligence roles (Scarlett, Lady Jaye, Helix, Jinx, etc). I was referring to more of a female serving on a direct action team. From reading that article about Blue Light it almost seems that the Intelligence agent in there might have been involved in some direct action raids. I may have my female Intelligence agents do the same thing as well, especially at the beginning when there are only the Original 13 and they would need as many people as possible.
Back to medics real quick, I did some further reading on the Combat Lifesaver Course and I am getting conflicting information. Some sources state ALL soldiers are taught it in Basic Training while other sources state it is an additional optional class taught later and teaches slightly more than the BCT self/buddy aid. So I wonder, which is it? Also I was reading on USMC MOS 0321 (Reconnaissance Marine) and the requirements for both Force Recon and Division Recon. Both Recon's indicate that a Marine needs to have attended the USMC Combatant Diver Course (which would change their MOS to 0324 Reconnaissance Marine, Combat Diver Qualified). So I wonder where do Marines who have attained the 0321 MOS but fail the Combatant Diver Course get placed at? Maybe some sort of support position within Force or Division Recon? Also after much thought I decided Hard Drive was better suited as a Special Forces Communications Sergeant. I would have him start out as a 91F Small Arms/Towed Artillery Repairer (to cover his small arms armorer skill) and then go Special Forces Communications Sergeant (covers his communications and computer skills) crossed trained as a medic (covers that skill). I am also doing more research on MARSOC and their skills. It appears the team communicators assigned to a 14-man MSOT take the Marine Network Operations Course which is a combination of networking and radio training. Since I prefer most of my Joes to be more on the "front-line" (assault, recon or combat support) I was thinking of making Mainframe as a former MARSOC communicator. I am trying to find more information on the course but Google seems to be not giving me what I am looking for (course requirements and who can attend it). Of course it may be for security reasons as well so I may never know. lol |
12-13-2016, 01:31 PM | #21594 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
|
You know with the Joes almost any soldiers with multiple MOSs and various abilities can be believable, with almost any explanation. I mean if these guys are the Cream of the Crop then they have probably excelled at almost anything they attempted. Perhaps the Pilot/Green Berets are a little more far fetched, but most other combinations are believable enough, and necessity breeds solutions. So however one joe was voluntold to fulfill a needed role in a past unit, and thus change career paths, is probably acceptable.
The women in these units might be tougher to add, but that may soon change too. I don't see Delta Force adding an entire squadron of women anytime soon, but I could see 2 or 3 making it in eventually. Units that focus on deep long Recons, might not be the right fit, but I am sure we will see a unit created that will be able to utilize women "Shooters" effectively. This brings me to my next point. Anyone pick up any Valkeryies figures yet? I got a shipment last night with a few figures. I need to pick up some extra bodies to go with all the extra heads I got, but I don't know how to incorporate them into my Joe force. All will be new characters. One will be Firewall from IDW, although I need to rename her The Bombstrike VAL will be a Cultural Support team (Civil Affairs specialist/Nurse (Can women be medics?) The Desert camo VAL- Convoy Specialist - Motor Transport Operator/Communications Codename ideas?
__________________
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
12-13-2016, 03:24 PM | #21595 |
Commando
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Britain
Posts: 3,827
|
Women are certainly allowed to be medics in the UK military. We had women serving as doctors and nurses in Afghanistan. I remember reading a couple of articles about the medevac flights from Bastion to the UK in the newspaper and them saying about women doctors and nurses on the flights. Some were RAF, some were RN, some were Army IIRC.
codenames? For the medic: Triage, Tourniquet? for the driver: Long Haul, Big Rig? Convoy? IT type; Wireless? Wi-fi? Hardline? Data? Databank? Quad Core? |
12-13-2016, 04:00 PM | #21596 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
|
Oh Nice. Thanks CapBritain. I like Wireless. Convoy too. (Not sure why I didn't just put that together myself, but there is too much talent on this board not to take advantage of.) I also like Triage, but I am viewing her as more of a Cultural Affairs Specialist. I will probably use the Lady Jaye VAL as another Cultural Affairs Specialist too, so I will have at least two. Maybe something like Mrs Worldwide, Outreach, or even Magi- which has so many levels of connotations although does that seem like the proper Feminine use of the word?
I am stealing Triage for my Action FOrce DOC though.
__________________
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. Last edited by Loose Cannon; 12-13-2016 at 04:11 PM.. |
12-14-2016, 03:24 AM | #21597 |
Commando
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Britain
Posts: 3,827
|
hehehe, Triage is one of my Combined Universe Z-Force medics. mine's a woman, though.
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12-14-2016, 11:18 AM | #21598 |
just a Marine
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: central PA
Posts: 1,681
|
Quote:
Bumping for my last two questions.
Also after much thought I decided Hard Drive was better suited as a Special Forces Communications Sergeant. I would have him start out as a 91F Small Arms/Towed Artillery Repairer (to cover his small arms armorer skill) and then go Special Forces Communications Sergeant (covers his communications and computer skills) crossed trained as a medic (covers that skill). I am also doing more research on MARSOC and their skills. It appears the team communicators assigned to a 14-man MSOT take the Marine Network Operations Course which is a combination of networking and radio training. Since I prefer most of my Joes to be more on the "front-line" (assault, recon or combat support) I was thinking of making Mainframe as a former MARSOC communicator. I am trying to find more information on the course but Google seems to be not giving me what I am looking for (course requirements and who can attend it). Of course it may be for security reasons as well so I may never know. lol MARSOC has gone through huge changes over the last 10 years or so. Recon Marines, you could argue are better trained than SEALS with similar capabilities, used to be focused largely on the tactical and operational picture with limited play in the SOCOM and black ops world. SEAL/UDT started out as a way to recon beaches and water for amphibious and brown water ops, and evolved into their commando role. Recon Marines, going back to the Raiders, have always been commandos and beach recon. This could have changed, but Marines could be assigned to Recon and become operational after attending Recon Indoc, airborne and scuba would typically be attended later. In other words, being a really good trigger puller or communicator or whatever, and being physically fit and tough were more important than being able to do a parachute insert. Combatant Diver is the one course that I know of that the USMC "allows" people to fail without a penalty. A Marine who fails out of Airborne, Ranger, or other joint service school will have their career ended (unless the failure is injury, but if they fail because they can't grasp the material or can't hang, they are finished). So, LCpl Smittie fails dive school, he goes back to his Recon unit, keeps training with them, keeps being a Recon Marine, and after the more experienced guys train him up and get him past his deficiencies (swimming ability, grasping dive tables, etc) they send him back. A second failure probably means being dropped from Recon. MARSOC is developing SF capabilities, something the USMC has always done but never really had a dedicated unit for it. We always showed up somewhere, made friends with the locals, and taught them to fight for freedom and democracy, or something like that. So, to not really answer your question, 10 years ago, a Recon Marine who wanted to be a career Marine and spend a career in Recon would need to pass Combatant Diver, A Recon Marine can be an operator without Scuba or Airborne as those really are not as important as they were in the past. A lot of guys go Recon then get out of the service, or do a tour in one of the Recon units and then go to other units. |
12-14-2016, 08:16 PM | #21599 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: over here
Posts: 2,092
|
Quote:
John,
MARSOC has gone through huge changes over the last 10 years or so. Recon Marines, you could argue are better trained than SEALS with similar capabilities, used to be focused largely on the tactical and operational picture with limited play in the SOCOM and black ops world. SEAL/UDT started out as a way to recon beaches and water for amphibious and brown water ops, and evolved into their commando role. Recon Marines, going back to the Raiders, have always been commandos and beach recon. This could have changed, but Marines could be assigned to Recon and become operational after attending Recon Indoc, airborne and scuba would typically be attended later. In other words, being a really good trigger puller or communicator or whatever, and being physically fit and tough were more important than being able to do a parachute insert. Combatant Diver is the one course that I know of that the USMC "allows" people to fail without a penalty. A Marine who fails out of Airborne, Ranger, or other joint service school will have their career ended (unless the failure is injury, but if they fail because they can't grasp the material or can't hang, they are finished). So, LCpl Smittie fails dive school, he goes back to his Recon unit, keeps training with them, keeps being a Recon Marine, and after the more experienced guys train him up and get him past his deficiencies (swimming ability, grasping dive tables, etc) they send him back. A second failure probably means being dropped from Recon. MARSOC is developing SF capabilities, something the USMC has always done but never really had a dedicated unit for it. We always showed up somewhere, made friends with the locals, and taught them to fight for freedom and democracy, or something like that. So, to not really answer your question, 10 years ago, a Recon Marine who wanted to be a career Marine and spend a career in Recon would need to pass Combatant Diver, A Recon Marine can be an operator without Scuba or Airborne as those really are not as important as they were in the past. A lot of guys go Recon then get out of the service, or do a tour in one of the Recon units and then go to other units. Thank you for your insight. It puts things in perspective. Although in the case of a Recon Marine that has not passed Combatant Diving and his team is called up on a mission to insert via rebreathers would he just have to stand down on that particular mission and someone else from another team be put in his place? I have been trying to figure out all of my Joe Marines and what MOS they may be. Plus I have been trying to figure out all the different "types" of MOS's, such as Primary, Additional, Free, etc. that the Marines officer. I imagine someone like Gung-Ho starting out as a 0311 then progressing to a 0321 then eventually a 0326. Not sure how many MOS's a Marine is allowed to have at one time. Here is what I have come up with (with help from everyone in this thread): Mace: 0211 Counterintelligence/Human Intelligence Specialist Sgt Slaughter: 0311 RIfleman Gung-Ho, Leatherneck and Ice Storm v1: 0326 Reconnaissance Marine, Parachute and Combat Diver Quailified Mirage: 0352 Antitank Missile Gunner Blast-Off: 7051 Aircraft Rescue and Firefighting Specialist Mainframe: 0651 Cyber Network Operator or a 0372 Critical Skills Operator. Not sure if his prior Army service would allow him to go straight to MARSOC Assessment and Selection or if he would still have to go through boot camp and be in another MOS first? Hollow Point: Since he did serve as a Range Officer at Quantico I believe someone mentioned a while back that he would need to be a Warrant Officer. Lt Stone (from the Extreme series): not sure on the MOS. I was leaning towards the Infantry or Intelligence fields. Last edited by john shaft; 12-14-2016 at 08:56 PM.. Reason: Clarity |
12-15-2016, 12:46 AM | #21600 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
|
Quote:
Thank you for your insight. It puts things in perspective. Although in the case of a Recon Marine that has not passed Combatant Diving and his team is called up on a mission to insert via rebreathers would he just have to stand down on that particular mission and someone else from another team be put in his place?
I have been trying to figure out all of my Joe Marines and what MOS they may be. Plus I have been trying to figure out all the different "types" of MOS's, such as Primary, Additional, Free, etc. that the Marines officer. I imagine someone like Gung-Ho starting out as a 0311 then progressing to a 0321 then eventually a 0326. Not sure how many MOS's a Marine is allowed to have at one time. Here is what I have come up with (with help from everyone in this thread): Mace: 0211 Counterintelligence/Human Intelligence Specialist Sgt Slaughter: 0311 RIfleman Gung-Ho, Leatherneck and Ice Storm v1: 0326 Reconnaissance Marine, Parachute and Combat Diver Quailified Mirage: 0352 Antitank Missile Gunner Blast-Off: 7051 Aircraft Rescue and Firefighting Specialist Mainframe: 0651 Cyber Network Operator or a 0372 Critical Skills Operator. Not sure if his prior Army service would allow him to go straight to MARSOC Assessment and Selection or if he would still have to go through boot camp and be in another MOS first? Hollow Point: Since he did serve as a Range Officer at Quantico I believe someone mentioned a while back that he would need to be a Warrant Officer. Lt Stone (from the Extreme series): not sure on the MOS. I was leaning towards the Infantry or Intelligence fields. My Marine guys are similar to yours, except I'm making Mirage an ex-ANGLICO turned MARSOC JTAC and Slaughter a SOTG Training Chief |
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