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03-24-2016, 12:33 AM | #20621 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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That sort of reminds me of the story about how Ron Rudat designed the Low-Light figure intending it to be a SEAL sniper, but Larry Hama took one look at it and decided he'd work better as an Army marksman. I wonder how many cases there were where Rudat's design intent and Hama's impression of the prototype figure in-hand were on really divergent trajectories (apparently Hama didn't have much, if any, working contact with the toy designers during the filecard writing process... not by choice mind you, that's just how it worked back in the day).
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03-24-2016, 02:18 AM | #20622 |
G.I.Joe medic
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Litchfield, ME
Posts: 3,171
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And, of course, Doc was supposed to be an enlisted Navy corpsman, but he became an Army doctor. I can't remember who wanted which version.
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03-24-2016, 06:15 AM | #20623 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: over here
Posts: 2,092
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Quote:
Definitely, as always actual patrol size will always be dependent on the mission, terrain and weather, troop strength, time considerations, etc, etc. Sometimes they operate in 2's, 4's, 6's etc
They were stories all over the UK press in Aug/Sept 2015 of an 8 man SAS team that got into contact with some 30 odd ISIS militants. From what I've read though, the standard is 6 men, especially for Reconnaissance Missions. Source - Operation Mayhem about the Parachute Regiment's Pathfinder Platoon, they operate in patrols of 6 and the author mentions that its stock standard for SOF Reconnaissance units these days. The Pathfinders train with the SAS/SBS/ SRR in the UK but also SOF and SF all over the world. The book starts with the author conducting higher than HAHO insertions in the US with DEVGRU / Seal Team 6. They were using HAPLISS (probably a misspelling) rigs. The SASR has used the 5 man patrol for the longest time; Patrol Leader, Medic, Demolitions Specialist, Sniper, Signaler from the Signals Regiment. Over the last few years the patrol size has moved to 6 for a variety of reasons, one being the aforementioned amount of equipment they have to carry, another being the types of vehicles they're currently using. The Long Range Patrol Vehicles in use now are configured for 3; Vehicle Commander, Driver, Gunner. 6 men would equal 2 Vehicles OR they use the 2 man version with a guy riding a 4x4 Quad Bike or motorcycle in a scout role. Whilst it may seem odd to have the size of your force be shaped or even dictated by your equipment, its actually (sadly) nothing new. The US Army reorganized its men around the Stryker vehicle for instance. I also agree about Doc, I wished they would have utilized him as a corpsman instead of a doctor. In my Joe-verse he is the lead surgeon on the Medical Detachment on the Joe Team. I upped him to a Major as I don't think a Captain would be leading a surgical team. Maybe I will just make him a corpsman and attach him to one of my Troops. |
03-24-2016, 01:24 PM | #20624 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,586
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Quote:
The Long Range Patrol Vehicles in use now are configured for 3; Vehicle Commander, Driver, Gunner. 6 men would equal 2 Vehicles OR they use the 2 man version with a guy riding a 4x4 Quad Bike or motorcycle in a scout role. Whilst it may seem odd to have the size of your force be shaped or even dictated by your equipment, its actually (sadly) nothing new. The US Army reorganized its men around the Stryker vehicle for instance. Units are always tweaking tactics and squad size. I remember in the Norwegian mechinf "Storm" (yes, I was actually a stormtrooper), when we trained as NCOs we were taught that the platoons would consist of four 8 man squads. But when we got out to our units they had 3 regular squad and a fourth command/scout/designated marksman squad. This sort of thing goes on all the time and there's no reason to assume that GIJoe wouldn't follow suit. The ARAH comics depict Joes sent on missions in various team strengths - there's no clear standard unit size. |
03-24-2016, 03:54 PM | #20625 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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So I'm viewing the Special Warfare Medical Group's year-end Powerpoint presentation for 2015 and there's a bunch of eye-opening statistics for the SOCM (Special Operations Combat Medic) classes that graduated between January and August 2014, which comprised 565 students in all. The students come from all units and services, BTW, not just Army Ranger Medics or Army Special Forces Medical Sergeants, but also Army Civil Affairs Medical Sergeants, Navy SEAL/SWCC medics, Navy corpsmen assigned to USMC Recon, medics assigned to the 528th SBSO(A)'s special operations medical detachment, foreign allied military personnel, and a small number of "unassigned" medical personnel.
What really stood out to me, stats-wise, are the following:
The most reliable statistical predictors for positive performance in the SOCM course were the following:
Anyway, I don't know how relevant this all is to the discussion, but figured it might be one of those useful nuggets of general information for those of you trying to come up with original GI Joe rosters and such. EDIT: Oh, and here are the top five passing rates classified according to where the students came from:
Last edited by zuludelta; 03-24-2016 at 04:58 PM.. |
03-24-2016, 04:27 PM | #20626 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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Man the Joes could use more medics, but thinking about it I guess one could repurpose any of the infantry guys as Medics. I assume for 90% of the action, the SOCM is another badass operator, kicking butt and taking names. After action he may attend to local collateral damage, or even the target they were after so they can bring them back. Everyone can't be a weapons sgt. What are Weapons Sgts usually packing?
__________________
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
03-24-2016, 04:53 PM | #20627 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Quote:
Whatever the mission calls for, I suppose. Remember, though, that SF Weapons Sergeants aren't just "weapons experts," they have to have the teaching and training skills to stand-up indigenous/allied insurgency/counterinsurgency units. I think there's a tendency (especially in popular fiction/non-fiction) to overemphasize the SR and DA aspects of the SF mission, and downplay the UW/FID part of it (which is sort of understandable, UW/FID isn't as "tacticool" as SR or DA, at least to the general public). |
03-24-2016, 05:18 PM | #20628 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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I suppose a Green Beret ODA team is a poor model for what a GIJoe operator team would be doing. FID work while useful, is not their bread and butter. The Weapons guy would be the machine gunner, Law toting m203 Grenadier I assume? Roab
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Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
03-24-2016, 05:28 PM | #20629 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Quote:
SF does have elite CQB capability, though. I don't know how well they compare to, say, SEALs, but the SF Groups do have something called the Combatant Commander's In-Extremis Force (CIF) Company, which is a small collection of ODAs who specialize in CQB/Hostage Resue. They even have their own exclusive training course closed to other SF personnel (not just any SF personnel can take the course, they have to have a CIF assignment). |
03-24-2016, 10:17 PM | #20630 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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I forgot about the CIF. Does anyone know how many CIF teams there are? One per Group? Per Battalion?
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Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
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