|
Community Links |
Social Groups |
Pictures & Albums |
Members List |
Search Forums |
Advanced Search |
Go to Page... |
|
Thread Tools |
03-23-2016, 09:17 PM | #20611 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
|
Quote:
Let me try again. A company-sized unit doesn't normally have a staff section (S1, S2, S3, etc.). The headquarters in an infantry company, for example, normally just consists of the CO (an infantry captain), the XO (an infantry lieutenant), the company sergeant (a senior infantry NCO), the supply sergeant (a Quartermaster Corps-coded position), a radio operator (who is an infantryman who carries around a manpack radio/extra radio, not a Signal Corps guy), and maybe a driver (who will also be an infantryman, not someone from the Transportation branch). You find staff sections at the battalion level or higher. At the battalion level, your S2 is going to be an MI branch officer. With SOF units, however, their missions require so much more complicated planning that you will often find more than just a CO and an XO at the company-level headquarters. In a Special Forces company headquarters, for example, you will find the "company technician" (a Special Forces Warrant Officer) who handles, among other things, intelligence/counterintelligence matters. In a Marine Raider/Marine Special Operations company, you will find a Special Operations Officer captain who serves as a "company intelligence officer" (for lack of a better term). That's the sort of set-up I'm trying to replicate with the organizational chart I posted. I should probably change the terminology on the chart to reduce confusion, though. Quote:
I am really liking the setup you outlined. One question though (more out of curiosity than anything) why did you go with a 14-man unit versus the "traditional" 16-man? It seems Delta, SAS, and the SEAL's use (or used) the 16-man Troop/Platoon concept (which I was doing with my Joes) so was wondering why you went with fourteen instead.
So yeah, 14 to me seemed like a good number that would allow multiple internal configurations as required by the mission or emergent circumstances—you could either have the 4/5/5 configuration or you can have two 7-man squads. Last edited by zuludelta; 03-23-2016 at 09:26 PM.. Reason: edited for clarity |
03-23-2016, 09:52 PM | #20612 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: over here
Posts: 2,092
|
Quote:
Not exactly. I think I might have made things more confusing by introducing the S2 term.
Let me try again. A company-sized unit doesn't normally have a staff section (S1, S2, S3, etc.). The headquarters in an infantry company, for example, normally just consists of the CO (an infantry captain), the XO (an infantry lieutenant), the company sergeant (a senior infantry NCO), the supply sergeant (a Quartermaster Corps-coded position), a radio operator (who is an infantryman who carries around a manpack radio/extra radio, not a Signal Corps guy), and maybe a driver (who will also be an infantryman, not someone from the Transportation branch). You find staff sections at the battalion level or higher. At the battalion level, your S2 is going to be an MI branch officer. With SOF units, however, their missions require so much more complicated planning that you will often find more than just a CO and an XO at the company-level headquarters. In a Special Forces company headquarters, for example, you will find the "company technician" (a Special Forces Warrant Officer) who handles, among other things, intelligence/counterintelligence matters. In a Marine Raider/Marine Special Operations company, you will find a Special Operations Officer captain who serves as a "company intelligence officer" (for lack of a better term). That's the sort of set-up I'm trying to replicate with the organizational chart I posted. I should probably change the terminology on the chart to reduce confusion, though. I went with 14 it seemed a good compromise if GI Joe is supposed to be a blended service organization. MARSOC uses 14-man MSOTs (Marine Special Operations Teams) which can be broken down further into a 4-man headquarters and two 5-man elements. Current SEAL doctrine calls for a platoon of 3 officers and 16 to 18 enlisted men, which can then be divided into three squads of six to seven SEALs. And Ranger Regiment doctrine (circa 2008 or so) calls for a seven-man rifle squad as the base unit of a rifle company. So yeah, 14 to me seemed like a good number that would allow multiple internal configurations as required by the mission or emergent circumstances—you could either have the 4/5/5 configuration or you can have two 7-man squads. It appears that seven is the new magic number for units these days. Is this because of what Tyroc mentioned earlier, because of the type of equipment carried by each member? Originally I structured my Joes similar to SAS 16-man Troops but changed it to 20-man when I got the idea from Tyroc to include a four-man sniper/recce element in each Troop. So I made it like this: Troop Commander Troop Sergeant Troop Communicator Troop Medic 2x6-man Assault Teams 1x4-man Recce/Sniper Team I also tried to keep my Joes together as far as year they were released was concerned. For example one of my Troops consisted of Joes from the '82-84 lineup (not including Combat Support Joes and such). So my Troop One looked like this: Troop Commander: Steeler Troop Sergeant: Stalker Troop Communicator: Breaker Troop Medic: Spirit Assault Team Alpha: Grunt Clutch Rock'n'Roll Short-Fuze Zap Snake-Eyes Assault Team Bravo: Torpedo Gung-Ho Roadblock Blowtorch Airborne Ripcord Recce/Sniper Team Charlie: Recondo Snow Job (need two more Recce members) I am plugging Joe members into your structure as well and will post it when I get a chance. |
03-23-2016, 10:23 PM | #20613 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
|
Not if I beat you to it.
Ultimate 14 man JSOT Based on Zulu's team structure. Claymore - team leader Falcon - asst team leader Duke - team chief Stalker - operations chief Breaker - senior C-E Gung-Ho - senior ISR Zap - senior Ordnance Spirit - Senior SOCM Beachhead - senior Weapons Recoil - C-E Recondo - ISR Bazooka - Ordnance Lifeline - SOCM Roadblock - weapons
__________________
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. Last edited by Loose Cannon; 03-23-2016 at 10:28 PM.. |
03-23-2016, 10:28 PM | #20614 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
|
I don't think it would ever be perfect. Seriously though zulu where did you picture a few of the main guys? Duke, Flint, Stalker, Snake-Eyes, and Gung-Ho since the seems to be a Marine twist to this.
__________________
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
03-23-2016, 10:45 PM | #20615 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: over here
Posts: 2,092
|
Quote:
Not if I beat you to it.
Ultimate 14 man JSOT Based on Zulu's team structure. Claymore - team leader Falcon - asst team leader Duke - team chief Stalker - operations chief Breaker - senior C-E Gung-Ho - senior ISR Zap - senior Ordnance Spirit - Senior SOCM Beachhead - senior Weapons Recoil - C-E Recondo - ISR Bazooka - Ordnance Lifeline - SOCM Roadblock - weapons Ugh! You beat me! lol Here is one of mine (again trying to keep the Joes within years released together so this is my 82-84 lineup): Team Leader: Steeler Assistant Team Leader: Torpedo Team Chief: Stalker Operations Chief: Senior C-E: Breaker Senior ISR: Recondo Senior Ordnance: Zap Senior SOCM: Spirit Senior Weapons: Rock'n'Roll C-E: Flash ISR: Ordnance: Short-Fuze SOCM: Weapons: Grunt 85-86 lineup: Team Leader: Claymore Assistant Team Leader: Team Chief: Leatherneck Operations Chief: Beach Head Senior C-E: Dial-Tone Senior ISR: Senior Ordnance: Tollbooth Senior SOCM: Lifeline Senior Weapons: Bazooka C-E: Sci-Fi ISR: Quick-Kick Ordnance: SOCM: Weapons: Iceberg Still trying to figure out the other billets. I like the use of Gung Ho as an ISR Loose so I may put him in of the ISR billets. |
03-23-2016, 10:57 PM | #20616 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
|
Honestly? I didn't even think about which Joes would fit where. I just wanted to focus on getting the structure "right" first, because that felt more important to me. I guess I was approaching this latest exercise with the mindset that I'd be staffing the team with "troop builders" of a sort.
|
03-23-2016, 11:43 PM | #20617 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
|
I can believe you, I always have the guys I want grouped together and then my teams lack some critical component. So freeing oneself from an imaginary arbitrary delineation based on the figures allows you to create a structure that works.
__________________
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
03-23-2016, 11:55 PM | #20618 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
|
Quote:
They were stories all over the UK press in Aug/Sept 2015 of an 8 man SAS team that got into contact with some 30 odd ISIS militants. From what I've read though, the standard is 6 men, especially for Reconnaissance Missions. Source - Operation Mayhem about the Parachute Regiment's Pathfinder Platoon, they operate in patrols of 6 and the author mentions that its stock standard for SOF Reconnaissance units these days. The Pathfinders train with the SAS/SBS/ SRR in the UK but also SOF and SF all over the world. The book starts with the author conducting higher than HAHO insertions in the US with DEVGRU / Seal Team 6. They were using HAPLISS (probably a misspelling) rigs. Quote:
The Long Range Patrol Vehicles in use now are configured for 3; Vehicle Commander, Driver, Gunner. 6 men would equal 2 Vehicles OR they use the 2 man version with a guy riding a 4x4 Quad Bike or motorcycle in a scout role. Whilst it may seem odd to have the size of your force be shaped or even dictated by your equipment, its actually (sadly) nothing new. The US Army reorganized its men around the Stryker vehicle for instance. Last edited by Tyroc; 03-24-2016 at 12:04 AM.. |
03-23-2016, 11:59 PM | #20619 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
|
The way I see it, though, is that the individual Joes are malleable. You can just change them up in terms of rank and specialty to fit the structure. One character that I think could stand being changed somewhat significantly is Doc. There's just not much use and call for a medical doctor on a company-sized SOF unit. I think he makes much more sense as, say, a Civil Affairs Trauma Medical Sergeant (basically a healthcare specialist NCO who has gone to Airborne School, completed the Special Operations Civil Affairs Medical Sergeant Course, and taken advanced foreign language/culture training).
Last edited by zuludelta; 03-24-2016 at 03:13 PM.. |
03-24-2016, 12:14 AM | #20620 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
|
Quote:
The way I see it, though, is that the individual Joes are malleable. You can just change them up in terms of rank and specialty to fit the structure. One character that I think could stand being changed somewhat significantly is Doc. There's just not much use and call for a medical doctor on a company-sized SOF unit. I think he makes much more sense as, say, a Civil Affairs Trauma Medical Sergeant (basically a healthcare specialist staff sergeant who has gone to Airborne School, completed the Special Operations Combat Medic Course, taken advanced foreign language/culture training, and cross-qualified as a Civil Affairs NCO).
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Please Help! Need filecards! | RockinHard | G.I. Joe Buy Sell Trade | 2 | 10-26-2008 06:14 PM |
Need filecards! | RockinHard | G.I. Joe Buy Sell Trade | 18 | 10-24-2008 09:17 PM |
Filecards Wanted!!!! | RockinHard | G.I. Joe Buy Sell Trade | 5 | 10-17-2008 10:25 PM |
Filecards Wanted! | RockinHard | G.I. Joe Buy Sell Trade | 5 | 10-05-2008 04:15 PM |
Quaid Spills Secrets on "G.I. Joe" | HissCommander | G.I. Joe News and Rumors | 108 | 10-01-2008 11:23 AM |
|
|