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03-12-2016, 06:55 PM | #20521 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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So what do you do with the Green Shirts then?
Not sure how I view Steel Brigade? Security for sure. Weapons teams as well. Not sure about Artillery or engineering.
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03-12-2016, 09:19 PM | #20522 |
just a Marine
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: central PA
Posts: 1,681
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Going back to the military skills like Scuba and freefall, the military schools are PT academies to a point, but they go very in depth into the topics. Also, I mentioned that the Marine Corps switched from the Navy Scuba course to their own combat diver, only the first two weeks are actual scuba training, the rest is training to employ scuba like recon, demolitions and such.
You can learn to parachute, free fall even, in less than a day. To be fair, it isn't that hard. But, you can only go to MFF training after completing basic Airborne, and then accruing several jumps beyond that. Part of the reason for this is that when you make a civilian free fall jump, there is a handful of guys in a little plane, and they get to the release point, and if everyone doesn't make the jump, the circle back and do it again. with military jumps, you get one chance, either because there is another plane following that needs to be there or you don't want to linger over enemy territory any more than necessary. Point being, like Low Tech said, there is a lot more to these skills than just parachuting or swimming underwater. Another aspect is the right of passage, or the esprit de corps aspect. When you finish airborne, you are a paratrooper, when you finish scuba, you are a combat diver or frogman. The schools teach a lot more than the skills. Could they do it in house, or hire contractors? Sure, part of the schools too is that the military is a huge machine and the schools are cogs in the machine. If a GI Joe member needs to learn Scuba, he needs to know it now, not in 6 months when a school seat opens. Also, they might not need full on scuba school either. If a guy like Recondo needs to do a scuba insertion with Torpedo, they can train him up enough in house to do the job. A guy like that would be in great shape, and motivated to learn. he wouldn't get to wear a scuba bubble. It was fairly common, well, maybe not common, for this to happen in the past. I have read accounts where a technician is needed for a commando type raid during WWII and the technician gets a crash course in parachuting. |
03-12-2016, 10:03 PM | #20523 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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I could imagine some of the more technical Joes like say Mainframe or Hard-Drive getting the crash course. They weren't brought on for their Recon Skills. But still a unit like the Joes I would want my 30 or 40 Recon Joes to be both Scuba and MFF.
Guys like Grunt, Spearhead and Footloose and Grid-Iron I am not sure if they would be the first choice on any mission, but I guess they would serve in a Ranger type rolls so they would be as good as any one else.
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Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
03-12-2016, 11:44 PM | #20524 |
I.O. SpecOps
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In a secret underground bunker.
Posts: 4,404
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Quote:
Going back to the military skills like Scuba and freefall, the military schools are PT academies to a point, but they go very in depth into the topics. Also, I mentioned that the Marine Corps switched from the Navy Scuba course to their own combat diver, only the first two weeks are actual scuba training, the rest is training to employ scuba like recon, demolitions and such.
You can learn to parachute, free fall even, in less than a day. To be fair, it isn't that hard. But, you can only go to MFF training after completing basic Airborne, and then accruing several jumps beyond that. Part of the reason for this is that when you make a civilian free fall jump, there is a handful of guys in a little plane, and they get to the release point, and if everyone doesn't make the jump, the circle back and do it again. with military jumps, you get one chance, either because there is another plane following that needs to be there or you don't want to linger over enemy territory any more than necessary. Point being, like Low Tech said, there is a lot more to these skills than just parachuting or swimming underwater. Another aspect is the right of passage, or the esprit de corps aspect. When you finish airborne, you are a paratrooper, when you finish scuba, you are a combat diver or frogman. The schools teach a lot more than the skills. Could they do it in house, or hire contractors? Sure, part of the schools too is that the military is a huge machine and the schools are cogs in the machine. If a GI Joe member needs to learn Scuba, he needs to know it now, not in 6 months when a school seat opens. Also, they might not need full on scuba school either. If a guy like Recondo needs to do a scuba insertion with Torpedo, they can train him up enough in house to do the job. A guy like that would be in great shape, and motivated to learn. he wouldn't get to wear a scuba bubble. It was fairly common, well, maybe not common, for this to happen in the past. I have read accounts where a technician is needed for a commando type raid during WWII and the technician gets a crash course in parachuting. Tactical Air Operations The Marines had contracted their own MFF school, since they were using a different style parachute rig than the other services.
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Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery? http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-jo...r1s-b-s-t.html |
03-14-2016, 08:46 AM | #20525 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: over here
Posts: 2,092
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The thing about in house training on the Joe team depends on how large the unit is. Someone like Torpedo is probably an operator (going on missions abroad) so when would he have time to instruct others? Of course they could do a rotational thing as well. Maybe he is pulled from duty every few months to teach SCUBA skills. Another thing to factor in is does the Joe team have the facilities/capabilities to conduct this kind of training (especially MFF training)?
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03-14-2016, 11:03 AM | #20526 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,224
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SEAL Platoons realistically would alternate between sea and shore tours, and after a deployment SEALs would work as instructors usually until the next pre-deployment training and deployment.
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03-14-2016, 11:34 AM | #20527 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,018
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I'd assume that whenever the Joes aren't actually on operations they're training, either to maintain skills or develop new ones. Someone has to organize that. Similarly, the ARAH run implied that Joes run their own selection process, so again, instructors need to be dedicated to that. I can see any orbat including a small training wing with pers rotating through on say a 6-12 month cycle.
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03-14-2016, 11:49 AM | #20528 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Athens Al
Posts: 2,741
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That's how I always saw it, also I assumed that a new member might be sort of specialized in his primary and secondary MOSs, but after being on the Joe team for a while, would accumulate a standard set of skills that every Joe ends up having... For instance lets take Footloose, likely JUST infantry in 1985 when he was first selected. But over the years he would end up going on water, airborne, mountain, arctic, toxo and several other missions. Each time the Joe who specializes in that type of mission ( a LOT of Joe file cards mention they were instructors btw) would teach Footloose those skills. Torpedo might teach him prior to a scuba mission, Snowjob might teach him prior to his first arctic mission. And on and on until you end up with these operators that can do whatever Is needed, and explains how as a character becomes more classic, they are portrayed ( when I play with toys, and I notice this in the comics as well) more badass and ultra capable. This model also serves to familiarize each Joe with the rest of the team ( after Footloose goes on mountain missions he and alpine might be closer and form a bond)
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03-14-2016, 11:49 AM | #20529 |
I.O. SpecOps
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In a secret underground bunker.
Posts: 4,404
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Do the Joes have that luxury with only 8-10 SEALs on the team? Delta and DEVGRU have around 300 operators. That's plenty of people rotate some out for down time. You'd probably need all the SEALs and Deep-Six to run a safe dive course. You'd need safety swimmers, a dive rated medic, and multiple instructors to keep an eye all the students.
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Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery? http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-jo...r1s-b-s-t.html Last edited by blackrazor1; 04-04-2016 at 01:04 AM.. Reason: added "need" |
03-14-2016, 12:45 PM | #20530 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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True you made need all the Combat swimmers to run a proper SCUBA session. I Would add Ice-storm as your dive rated medic.
But how long would it take? 2-3 months? Maybe this is a good use for Green Shirts. I always assume that all those Joes with INstructor in their MOS/SMS were going to be training other Joes.
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