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03-09-2016, 01:25 PM | #20511 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,586
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Hehehe...
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03-09-2016, 02:28 PM | #20512 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,018
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Quote:
Are you going to make all of your Joes dive-qualified? I debated whether to make all of mine or not (along with MFF-qualified) but I think I am still leaning towards making some MFF/Dive-qualifed and some not. In real life not all Force Recon, Delta, SAS, SEALs, and Special Forces are qualified in both so I was going to stick to that as well in regards to my Joes (even though it would solve most of my headaches in organizing them, lol).
Well yeah - of course! |
03-09-2016, 07:47 PM | #20513 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: over here
Posts: 2,092
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Quote:
Good question. I don't really know much about military dive qualifications. I kind of assume that there's a basic level and an advanced level, a bit like the difference between basic parachute (static line) and MFF. There's no reason why the whole team couldn't have basic parachute, with certain individuals then having more MFF skills (along with jumpmaster and rigging quals). Similarly, there's no reason the whole team couldn't have some kind of PADI-on-steroids wet/drysuit dive qual, with certain individuals then having something more like technical dive certification.
Well yeah - of course! I already went ahead and made all my Joes qualified in basic static-line parachuting (as an elite force there would be no excuse not to be). Certain Joes are MFF-qualified so if I had a team of eight Joes inserting via HALO then obviously only MFF-qualifed ones could participate in the mission (the exception being if a non-MFF Joe was tethered to a MFF Joe during the jump). |
03-09-2016, 10:00 PM | #20514 |
just a Marine
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: central PA
Posts: 1,681
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Quote:
Yeah I don't know much about dive-qualifications myself but I believe even basic combat dive training involves using SCUBA tanks and rebreathers. There is a "combat swimmer" course but AFAIK it does not involves any breathing apparatuses (someone correct me if I am wrong).
I already went ahead and made all my Joes qualified in basic static-line parachuting (as an elite force there would be no excuse not to be). Certain Joes are MFF-qualified so if I had a team of eight Joes inserting via HALO then obviously only MFF-qualifed ones could participate in the mission (the exception being if a non-MFF Joe was tethered to a MFF Joe during the jump). You have courses like combat diver and SCUBA school where SCUBA and rebreathers are taught. When I first came in, Marines went to the Navy SCUBA School at Panama City, the same course as the Navy used that was a six week, fairly intense course. Then, the USMC came up with their own course that covered the same material as the six week course in about two weeks and then added an additional 6 weeks of long distance swimming, navigation, and some explosives and demolition. You also have your salvage divers, the guys that do that super high tech deep diving. The Navy has different levels, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd class divers and the top is master diver. This is a whole career field though, generally you wouldn't have a guy go to these schools as an additional skill like you would with scuba school. |
03-10-2016, 09:17 AM | #20515 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,018
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I think hardcorps sort of captures what I meant, but let me rephrase my thoughts, and add an aspect that was really only in my head, which is that special forces don't necessarily have to train specialist skills through military schools. Military parachute and dive training is way longer than the civilian counterpart for a couple of reasons. One is that there's a military aspect (you have to learn how to strap a rifle to your body and when to drop your ruck, for example), but the other is that those courses are so PT-heavy. SOF guys have already proven their fitness and done the gut-check stuff, so it may be more efficient for SOF units to contract out that specialist training. Plus, military courses rarely use up-to-date equipment (Where to Find the Best Diving Gear? Not the U.S. Navy | War Is Boring)
For diving, my thought was that everyone could have a basic qualification like a PADI recreational certification (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profes...ng_Instructors) and some would go on to get the specialties and professional certifications. Some guys (the basic level) only need to know how to roll out of a boat and swim ashore. But others (the advanced guys) need to be able to lock in/out of submarines, go under ice, go deep etc. |
03-10-2016, 12:14 PM | #20516 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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With all the Joe Trainer/Instructors they could almost be running their own schools in-house for some of these Skills. MFF and Scuba would be the most important I can think of although I am sure theer are other non-physical skills they could use as well. ie Technical Surveillance, Communications, Demolitions/EOD, Close Air Support/Forward Observer, Medical.
I thought I remember one of the Joes being a Scuba INstructor since he was 19, but i might be misremembering. Still Someone like Torpedo is listed as UDT INstructor on one file card. He could run whatever school would be appropriate for Joes. Maybe a rudimentary course for NOOBS, and more advanced for the Sgts, and a refresher for the Senior Sgts. One assumes all the SEALs have advanced SCUBA skills (including Shipwreck), Gung-Ho and Leatherneck are most likely Advanced combat Swimmers as well. After those I would look to the Jungle operators as being the most in need of Combat Swimming/SCUBA training. Muskrat for sure. Others possibles: Recondo, Mutt, Stalker, Pathfinder, Outback, Wreckage and Big Brawler. Next tier would be Recon guys: Dart, Recoil, Ambush, Sneak-Peek, Beachhead. Coincidently I would make all these Guys prime candidates for MFF training as well, if they didn't already have it. A school that Stalker could run with Airborne/Six, and Crazylegs and Lady Jaye as well. I assume there are more MFF guys than Scuba in the Joes, but here is my guess as to the guys who have both: Torpedo Wet-Down Duke (Just because he has been around so long) Stalker (Same as above) Gung-Ho Snake-Eyes Shipwreck Deep-Six Big Brawler Leatherneck Beachhead Recondo Wet-Suit Outback Muskrat Mutt Wreckage Dart Recoil Sneak-Peek Link Depth-Charge Pathfinder
__________________
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
03-10-2016, 12:43 PM | #20517 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,018
|
Loose Cannon - I think you're thinking of Torpedo, whose first file card starts "Torpedo was a scuba instructor prior to enlistment. Attained black belts in three martial arts by age 19." Doesn't mention how old he was on enlistment, but that's not really relevant. Beachhead v15 came with a set of fins, though no SCUBA gear, but one could extrapolate that he'd gone under water a few times.
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03-10-2016, 01:37 PM | #20518 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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Quote:
Loose Cannon - I think you're thinking of Torpedo, whose first file card starts "Torpedo was a scuba instructor prior to enlistment. Attained black belts in three martial arts by age 19." Doesn't mention how old he was on enlistment, but that's not really relevant. Beachhead v15 came with a set of fins, though no SCUBA gear, but one could extrapolate that he'd gone under water a few times.
__________________
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
03-10-2016, 08:48 PM | #20519 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: over here
Posts: 2,092
|
Quote:
I think hardcorps sort of captures what I meant, but let me rephrase my thoughts, and add an aspect that was really only in my head, which is that special forces don't necessarily have to train specialist skills through military schools. Military parachute and dive training is way longer than the civilian counterpart for a couple of reasons. One is that there's a military aspect (you have to learn how to strap a rifle to your body and when to drop your ruck, for example), but the other is that those courses are so PT-heavy. SOF guys have already proven their fitness and done the gut-check stuff, so it may be more efficient for SOF units to contract out that specialist training. Plus, military courses rarely use up-to-date equipment (Where to Find the Best Diving Gear? Not the U.S. Navy | War Is Boring)
For diving, my thought was that everyone could have a basic qualification like a PADI recreational certification (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profes...ng_Instructors) and some would go on to get the specialties and professional certifications. Some guys (the basic level) only need to know how to roll out of a boat and swim ashore. But others (the advanced guys) need to be able to lock in/out of submarines, go under ice, go deep etc. If I recall Delta has its members go through a combat swimmer course. Not exactly SCUBA but enough to swim to shore from a boat. Quote:
With all the Joe Trainer/Instructors they could almost be running their own schools in-house for some of these Skills. MFF and Scuba would be the most important I can think of although I am sure theer are other non-physical skills they could use as well. ie Technical Surveillance, Communications, Demolitions/EOD, Close Air Support/Forward Observer, Medical.
I thought I remember one of the Joes being a Scuba INstructor since he was 19, but i might be misremembering. Still Someone like Torpedo is listed as UDT INstructor on one file card. He could run whatever school would be appropriate for Joes. Maybe a rudimentary course for NOOBS, and more advanced for the Sgts, and a refresher for the Senior Sgts. One assumes all the SEALs have advanced SCUBA skills (including Shipwreck), Gung-Ho and Leatherneck are most likely Advanced combat Swimmers as well. After those I would look to the Jungle operators as being the most in need of Combat Swimming/SCUBA training. Muskrat for sure. Others possibles: Recondo, Mutt, Stalker, Pathfinder, Outback, Wreckage and Big Brawler. Next tier would be Recon guys: Dart, Recoil, Ambush, Sneak-Peek, Beachhead. Coincidently I would make all these Guys prime candidates for MFF training as well, if they didn't already have it. A school that Stalker could run with Airborne/Six, and Crazylegs and Lady Jaye as well. I assume there are more MFF guys than Scuba in the Joes, but here is my guess as to the guys who have both: Torpedo Wet-Down Duke (Just because he has been around so long) Stalker (Same as above) Gung-Ho Snake-Eyes Shipwreck Deep-Six Big Brawler Leatherneck Beachhead Recondo Wet-Suit Outback Muskrat Mutt Wreckage Dart Recoil Sneak-Peek Link Depth-Charge Pathfinder SEALS: Torpedo Shipwreck (as a SEAL) Wet-Suit Tracker Wet Down Link Night Fox Harpoon Navy EOD: Deep Six Depth Charge Force Recon: Gung Ho Leatherneck Special Forces: Snake-Eyes (says underwater demolitions on his filecard) Possible candidates: Duke (Special Forces) Flint (Special Forces) Drop Zone (Special Forces) Falcon (Special Forces) Colton (Special Forces) Stalker (Special Forces or Ranger Reconnaissance Company) Recondo (I have made him SF) Breaker (made him SF) Beach Head (one filecard puts him as SF, he could also be Ranger Reconnaissance Company) Sneak Peak (RRC) Spirit (made him SF) As I may have stated earlier I feel that any Joe who had previous SCUBA training had to have served or been in a SOF unit. However they could also do as LowTech stated, attend a civilian school after they had joined the Joes. |
03-12-2016, 04:38 PM | #20520 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Toxo-Zombie Land
Posts: 1,728
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Okay, so I was thinking about the Steel Brigade and how they are the "specialized grunts" of the Joe Team, to offset the Green Shirts. According to the card you could personalize, they could be pretty much anything: Army, Navy, etc. (even Coast Guard). By happy coincidence, I discovered that Tonka made several vehicles to go with your Steel Brigade figures! There is an official "SeeBee" set and an M.P. jeep. This is great for me, because I keep wondering where I'm going to find artillery types for running the heavy weapons for the Joe Team, and this fits the bill. The Steel Brigade can pretty much do any of the major chores that are needed, from fill-in pilots to loaders to security to engineering. I love it!
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