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03-02-2016, 06:03 PM | #20481 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Toxo-Zombie Land
Posts: 1,728
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You know, all this discussion about mountain-climbing Joes and Arctic Joes makes me think: Nobody ever thinks about the winter months in the northern hemisphere. This literally means that from 3-6 months each year, the Artic Joes rule. I don't think I've ever seen an issue of RAH where it is winter time and Snow Job and the others are tooling around on their Polar Battle Bears in "sunny" Ohio or blizzard-buried New York state. Heck, send them anywhere in the Rocky Mountains half the year and they are needed!
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03-02-2016, 09:20 PM | #20482 |
just a Marine
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: central PA
Posts: 1,681
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Quote:
Quote:
Anyway, the rangers, Marines, Seals and Green Berets on the joe team may well have all gone there. |
03-02-2016, 09:23 PM | #20483 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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Being that they are US soldiers they really wouldn't be operating on Us soil, but that has never stopped Hama. Himalayas seems like the best fit for them. Pakistan, India, China, Afghanistan, Turkmenistan. Also the Andes could provide safe havens for Cobra that the Joes would go after. But with things in Ukraine the way they are, and all the posturing in the Baltic States. I could see lots of cooperation there.
__________________
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
03-03-2016, 08:32 AM | #20484 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: over here
Posts: 2,092
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I have never liked the concept of a "specific-environment" Joe. It seems too limiting of their abilities if they spent most of their time hanging out in one environment that they specialize in. Plus what if there is no action going on in that environment? I see them operating in all environments (much like real SOF units do) with a few subject matter experts in various environments (arctic, desert, jungle, etc).
All of my arctic Joes are mountain climbing experts. They operate with all of the other Joes on regular missions but are called upon to scale a mountain or cliff if a specific mission calls for it. Same with my MFF-qualifed Joes (for HALO/HAHO missions) and combat diver Joes (for underwater infiltration missions). This is similar to real world SOF units, such as the SAS, Delta, Special Forces, Ranger Reconnaissance Company, etc. |
03-03-2016, 05:37 PM | #20485 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,586
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I'll also say that in general cold weather specialization and familiarity is a separate skill set from actual "traversing vertical obstacles" style mountaineering.
Not that both might not be taught to the same troops, but dealing with cold weather, skiiing, and outdoor survival in the winter is different from climbing up and down rocky mountains. What Alpine specializes in is different from someone like Snow Job or Blizzard and I wouldn't assume that the two are always a package deal. When I was in the Norwegian army, we dealt with snow, ice, cold and basically full on winter half the year around, and dealing with that was taken for granted as part of our basic training. But in a year and a half of basic infantry training I never went anywhere close to a climbing wall or anything like that. |
03-04-2016, 09:23 AM | #20486 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: over here
Posts: 2,092
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My deal is I need more mountain insertion type of Joes. I try placing my assault and recon Joes in four different types of insertion: HALO, SCUBA, Mobility and Mountain. So my arctic Joes get an additional skill set. Desert Joes go to Mobility (since SAS Mobility troops also specialize in desert warfare) and my jungle guys are going to SCUBA. Another reason I am trying to figure out all of the Joes former MOS's is to gauge whether they would qualify for some of the training. A standard Infantryman is not going to go to HALO or SCUBA training unless he was part of the RRC or a LRSU. In my fanfic I prefer my Joes to have most of their training by the time they become Joes. I may have a few go to training afterwards so someone like Grunt could go on to MFF training while a member of the Joe team.
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03-04-2016, 10:09 AM | #20487 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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I wonder who typically gets Arctic training? Who does the US keep as a battle ready cold climate force? I believe with the SAS guys, these two skills are combined so it makes sense to do it for Joes.
I believe the Northern Warfare Training Center teaches Mountaineering as well. I guess only units stationed in Alaska get the Cold weather training.
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Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
03-04-2016, 01:29 PM | #20488 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,586
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Isn't the 10th Mountain Division geared towards arctic/mountain warfare, at least in theory? I get the sense that The Royal Marines are among the British soldiers who get a lot of time training for this kind of thing. There is a big annual NATO exercise in Norway every winter that lots of countries take part in - I know US Marines make a regular appearance there.
But I'd also guess that the 21st Century has seen a lot of changes in regards to this since Arctic warfare may have been de-emphasized with the end of the Cold War. |
03-04-2016, 03:39 PM | #20489 |
Commando
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Britain
Posts: 3,827
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Royal Marines get a lot of Mountain and Arctic training in Norway as a holdover from the Cold War, because they, or at least some, were tasked to go to Norway to reinforce NATO's northern flank in the event of a Third World War. I believe the thinking was that the Soviets would roll a division across the border into northern Norway, steam-roll down the main peninsular and seize airfields that would allow them to then base strategic and tactical bombers in much closer proximity to the UK, Iceland and the Atlantic supply routes. The Marines were then supposed to be deployed over there to basically F*** up the Soviets with the Norweigian military. RM Commandos also cross train with the Royal Netherlands Marine Corps, with plans, so I read, for the RNMC to link up with RMC into a joint battle force in the event of WW3.
I think most of the British Army was planned to Channel-hop and join the main NATO armies in Germany, kicking ass and taking names hopefully. SAS would've gone behind the lines to wreak merry havoc. I remember reading in a now-outdated book about the SAS, that one particular mission they had for WW3 was to eliminate the Soviet Army's traffic controllers. They were the ones with all the geographic knowledge. "Without them the Red Army would have trouble finding Western Europe, let alone invading it," was the quote attached to an image of one traffic controller as it mentioned this. (Emphasis mine) |
03-04-2016, 04:17 PM | #20490 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,018
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I'd thought that the SAS and Royal Marines combined mountain and arctic because they had tasks to reinforce Norway in the event the balloon went up, though Stormgard is causing me to rethink that theory.
But why does mountaineering have to be a unique skill set? I get that it's somewhat specialized and requires constant refresher, but no more so than master sniper or unarmed combat instructor, and no one is suggesting forming a squadron of snipers or unarmed combat guys. Well, ok, there was Ninja Force, but moving on . . . are there enough purely mountain threat areas to justify having a quarter of your force dedicated to mountaineering, or could you get by with having a few experts salted through the troops to provide that expertise as required? |
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