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10-12-2015, 08:40 AM | #20131 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: over here
Posts: 2,092
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Quote:
Well, in the real world Flamethrowers have been banned via gentleman's agreement between nation states since the 1950's as the weapon was seen as being too barbaric.
The closest 'flame' type of weapon that's being used at the moment, that I can think of is the thermobaric bomb or RPG (Rocket propelled grenade)round. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPG-7 It's been used very successfully in Afghanistan (against caves) and in Iraq. In an issue of GI Joe Hearts & Minds from IDW, this is the weapon that Blowtorch uses instead of a flamethrower. There are also shotgun & grenade launcher fed thermobaric rounds Weapon Getting back to where the flamethrower guys would go, they could be Combat Engineers or Chemical Staff like you say, or maybe even Armorers (using acetylene torches, I think that's how Zulu Delta used them). I use them as Combat Engineer Assault Breachers, specializing in Thermal breaching (using heavy duty torches to get thru thick steel doors, especially on ships and stronghold structures). Blowtorch is listed in his filecard as studying Structural and Chemical Engineering so this could be a good fit for him. Blast Off and Charbroil could be the same. There was a story I read in 'Relentless Strike' about a Master Sniper and a Master Breacher from Delta who were teaching Marines how to use the thermobaric SMAW when they got overrun. Also, in 'Zero Six Bravo', SBS's M Squadron were on Mobile Ops in Iraq when they too got overrun. The author talks about their new Thermobaric weapon and they only had the one (for the whole Squadron - 60 guys). None of them had ever actually fired the round because it was too expensive to waste. Quote:
I use Breaker as an ex-SOT-A who transitioned to a SF Communications SGT (like some of them do). It helps me explain how he was part of a SF unit as an E-4. I use Sparks the same way. They're both linguists in multiple languages and do more than just Comm stuff. I use Siglio the Argentinian Quick Kick as a SOT-A too. He's one of the few Plastirama figures I own (I have Fuego too).
I want to create a small unit of SIGINT / EW guys made up of SOT-A's, USMC Radio Reconnaissance guys and Activity SIGINT specialists. I want to use all the Sonic Fighters / Super Sonic Fighters / Forca Electronica guys too but they just don't translate as SIGINT / EW guys.They're supposed to fight with sonic weapons, but for the most part they're all Heavy Weapons specialists. |
10-12-2015, 09:25 AM | #20132 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
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Although there's alot of cross-over, SIGINT is an Intelligence MOS, not a Signal Corps MOS at least within the US system as I understand it. The UK has Light Electronic Warfare Teams (the Royal Marines have a similar group too in their Y SQDN) which perform a similar role but come from the Supporting Signals Squadrons.
Light Electronic Warfare Teams | LEWTs I use Recoil as an ex-Ranger Reconnaissance guy in my Long Range Surveillance Troop led by Stalker. Each of my Troops have a 4-6 man Recce / Sniper Team for Close Target Reconnaissance. They perform mission on behalf of the Troop. They perform surveillance missions immediately prior to an assault and usually are part of the assault itself. Whereas the LRS Troop perform missions on behalf of the Command. They sneak in, perform surveillance on the targets, build up information and sneak out. They are the masters of seeing without being seen. For example; The intel guys get a bead on a suspected industrial plant hiding munitions destined to terror groups in the Philippines, Hawk tasks a 6 man Recce element from the LRS Troop to investigate. Stalker takes Recoil (Comms), Leatherneck, Sneak Peek, Pathfinder & Rabbit (Netherlands Footloose). They spend a week in a hidden observation post detailing a pattern of life (who comes, who goes, shift changes, etc). Rabbit and Leatherneck also collect soil samples, check weather conditions etc whilst Pathfinder uses special markers to mark out Landing Zones for helicopters, Laying up points, possible ambush zones. They get up close to determine where demo charges will go, look at how the doors and windows operate (do they turn inwards or outwards), how thick are the doors, are they re-inforced etc. If they have building plans, does the building conform to those plans still, etc. All the while relaying all this info and pictures via closed data transmission (SPIRNET I think?) Stalker exfills the area and presents his findings to Hawk and whichever Squadron is on call. Leatherneck as 2IC stays there and keeps tabs on the goings on. 24hrs later, the Recce Team from Mountain Troop infills in and relieves the LRS Troop and takes over. They spend the next few hours observing and getting 'eyes on' the target using info gathered by the LRS. They set up their sniper posts and wait for the Assault guys to infill and begin the assault. |
10-12-2015, 10:46 AM | #20133 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: over here
Posts: 2,092
|
Quote:
Although there's alot of cross-over, SIGINT is an Intelligence MOS, not a Signal Corps MOS at least within the US system as I understand it. The UK has Light Electronic Warfare Teams (the Royal Marines have a similar group too in their Y SQDN) which perform a similar role but come from the Supporting Signals Squadrons.
Light Electronic Warfare Teams | LEWTs I use Recoil as an ex-Ranger Reconnaissance guy in my Long Range Surveillance Troop led by Stalker. Each of my Troops have a 4-6 man Recce / Sniper Team for Close Target Reconnaissance. They perform mission on behalf of the Troop. They perform surveillance missions immediately prior to an assault and usually are part of the assault itself. Whereas the LRS Troop perform missions on behalf of the Command. They sneak in, perform surveillance on the targets, build up information and sneak out. They are the masters of seeing without being seen. For example; The intel guys get a bead on a suspected industrial plant hiding munitions destined to terror groups in the Philippines, Hawk tasks a 6 man Recce element from the LRS Troop to investigate. Stalker takes Recoil (Comms), Leatherneck, Sneak Peek, Pathfinder & Rabbit (Netherlands Footloose). They spend a week in a hidden observation post detailing a pattern of life (who comes, who goes, shift changes, etc). Rabbit and Leatherneck also collect soil samples, check weather conditions etc whilst Pathfinder uses special markers to mark out Landing Zones for helicopters, Laying up points, possible ambush zones. They get up close to determine where demo charges will go, look at how the doors and windows operate (do they turn inwards or outwards), how thick are the doors, are they re-inforced etc. If they have building plans, does the building conform to those plans still, etc. All the while relaying all this info and pictures via closed data transmission (SPIRNET I think?) Stalker exfills the area and presents his findings to Hawk and whichever Squadron is on call. Leatherneck as 2IC stays there and keeps tabs on the goings on. 24hrs later, the Recce Team from Mountain Troop infills in and relieves the LRS Troop and takes over. They spend the next few hours observing and getting 'eyes on' the target using info gathered by the LRS. They set up their sniper posts and wait for the Assault guys to infill and begin the assault. Excellent points on the Signals Corps and Intelligence MOS's. I had been thinking since I "promoted" Breaker to a former SF Communications Sergeant that maybe he would have taken some military classes on SIGINT kind of stuff in order to expand his skills. Especially since he has all those language skills. On another note I have also been thinking of making most of the Original 13 former Special Forces actually. They seem like they could easily fall into these MOS's: Breaker (SF Communications) Stalker (SF Medical) Snake-Eyes (SF Engineer) Rock'n'Roll (SF Weapons) Grunt (SF Weapons) Zap (SF Engineer) Short-Fuze (SF Engineer or Weapons) Hawk (SF Officer) I was thinking along those lines since the majority of Delta are either former SF or Rangers. I figured if the Joes are similar to Delta than they may have the same types of SOF's personnel within their ranks. BTW Tyroc I know you posted your Mountain Troop a few pages back, are you also going to post your entire structure? |
10-12-2015, 02:14 PM | #20134 |
Commando
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Britain
Posts: 3,827
|
My fan-fic site is nearly finished. Only one more story to post (which is a long-ass 100+ page epic), so here is the link for people to check out.
GI Joe Fanfic Wikia yeah, it's a wikia site. PLEASE don't edit anything. If you want, you can comment on pages or post here or PM me here. |
10-13-2015, 09:23 AM | #20135 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,018
|
Quote:
I use the flame thrower guys as part of my Heavy Breaching Troop, they're mostly tasked with Thermal Breaching (using acetylene torches etc to cut into steel doors) but guys like Blowtorch who studied mechanical and structural engineering, I use as a consultant for when they're planning operations that involve missile silos, weapons depots etc. Places which are either hard to penetrate or are deeply buried (like deeply buried underground bunkers). JSOC actually has a unit which does this, they specialize in'Hard and Deeply Buried Targets'. They're staffed with expert breachers, combat engineers etc and study targets and see how they can get in; can they smoke them out, how thick are the walls, if it's buried, how far is it buried, can a bunker buster reach deep enough, that sort of thing.
Quote:
Well, in the real world Flamethrowers have been banned via gentleman's agreement between nation states since the 1950's as the weapon was seen as being too barbaric.
The closest 'flame' type of weapon that's being used at the moment, that I can think of is the thermobaric bomb or RPG (Rocket propelled grenade)round. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPG-7 It's been used very successfully in Afghanistan (against caves) and in Iraq. In an issue of GI Joe Hearts & Minds from IDW, this is the weapon that Blowtorch uses instead of a flamethrower. There are also shotgun & grenade launcher fed thermobaric rounds Weapon Getting back to where the flamethrower guys would go, they could be Combat Engineers or Chemical Staff like you say, or maybe even Armorers (using acetylene torches, I think that's how Zulu Delta used them). I use them as Combat Engineer Assault Breachers, specializing in Thermal breaching (using heavy duty torches to get thru thick steel doors, especially on ships and stronghold structures). Blowtorch is listed in his filecard as studying Structural and Chemical Engineering so this could be a good fit for him. Blast Off and Charbroil could be the same. There was a story I read in 'Relentless Strike' about a Master Sniper and a Master Breacher from Delta who were teaching Marines how to use the thermobaric SMAW when they got overrun. Also, in 'Zero Six Bravo', SBS's M Squadron were on Mobile Ops in Iraq when they too got overrun. The author talks about their new Thermobaric weapon and they only had the one (for the whole Squadron - 60 guys). None of them had ever actually fired the round because it was too expensive to waste. |
10-13-2015, 09:34 AM | #20136 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,018
|
Quote:
SASR structure Pt 1
Note the JSOC diagram https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_...ns_Command.png Delta has the three straight lines on top of the box, indicating its size as a Group / Regiment whereas the other SMU's have two indicating that they're battalion sized units That's something to consider when looking at the ranks assigned to Joes on file cards. I sometimes think they should simply be ignored. On an organization-culture tangent, a little further down the page he writes "When I worked in special operations in the early 1990s, I considered Green an effective - but also arrogant - organization." |
10-13-2015, 10:11 AM | #20137 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
|
To be honest, I wasn't happy with the structure. I've since gone back to the drawing board. I couldn't make it work with the named Joes we have, even throwing in all the foreign variant and comic characters I was left with 1 1/2 Squadrons. Also, I've gotten bogged down in the nitty gritty of what kind of training they have to go through to get where they are. It's sidetracked me (but in a good way). Some days I think I'll never get a structure I'm happy with :(
|
10-13-2015, 10:12 AM | #20138 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
|
Quote:
My fan-fic site is nearly finished. Only one more story to post (which is a long-ass 100+ page epic), so here is the link for people to check out.
GI Joe Fanfic Wikia yeah, it's a wikia site. PLEASE don't edit anything. If you want, you can comment on pages or post here or PM me here. |
10-13-2015, 10:21 AM | #20139 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
|
Quote:
Here's what happens when you use a "search" function - you come up with old posts. Anyway, Gen McChrystal's memoir "My Share of the Task" never calls Delta "Delta," he uses the term "Green." But he also says it's a Brigade-sized organization. I've quoted the passage here, along with something on ranks y'all might find interesting: "In a conventional Army brigade, there were about five sergeants major - the highest enlisted rank - and over two thousand young privates. In Green, a brigade-size organization, there were sixty-three sergeants major and no privates." (p. 97).
That's something to consider when looking at the ranks assigned to Joes on file cards. I sometimes think they should simply be ignored. On an organization-culture tangent, a little further down the page he writes "When I worked in special operations in the early 1990s, I considered Green an effective - but also arrogant - organization." Green is the color code the DoD uses to separate and identify all the SMU's Task Force elements for simplicity's sake. According to Sean Naylor's Relentless Strike, the colors are as follows; Black - 22 SAS Blue - ST6 / DEVGRU Brown - 160th SOAR Gold - Joint Communications Unit (JCU) Gray - USAF 1st Special Operations Wing Green - Delta / CAG / 1st SFOD-D Orange - the Activity / Mission Support Activity / Intelligence Support Activity Purple - Anything multi-service or joint / JSOC related Red - 75th Ranger RGT Silver - a USAF Unit which flies multiple airframes in civilian colors and fake tail numbers White - USAF 24th Special Tactics I had heard of most of the colors, like Green, Orange, Red but some were new to me. Gold, Silver and Gray for instance. I think around the Panama Invasion, DEVGRU was Brown and requested a color change to Blue to better reflect its maritime background. Last edited by Tyroc; 10-13-2015 at 10:30 AM.. |
10-13-2015, 11:52 AM | #20140 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
|
Quote:
Here's what happens when you use a "search" function - you come up with old posts. Anyway, Gen McChrystal's memoir "My Share of the Task" never calls Delta "Delta," he uses the term "Green." But he also says it's a Brigade-sized organization. I've quoted the passage here, along with something on ranks y'all might find interesting: "In a conventional Army brigade, there were about five sergeants major - the highest enlisted rank - and over two thousand young privates. In Green, a brigade-size organization, there were sixty-three sergeants major and no privates." (p. 97).
That's something to consider when looking at the ranks assigned to Joes on file cards. I sometimes think they should simply be ignored. On an organization-culture tangent, a little further down the page he writes "When I worked in special operations in the early 1990s, I considered Green an effective - but also arrogant - organization." I always wonder when they use troop sizes like Brigade, Company, Platoon, or whatever else they designate themselves, all the Special Mission units seem to be on the low end size-wise. So 63 SGM for a Brigade unit which seems like half the size of a conventional Brigade. So a 3000 man Brigade versus the normal 5000. One SGM for every 50 men as opposed to one for every 1000 in a conventional sized Brigade. This sort of fits in line with the Joes though. THey have 6 SGMs if you include Stalker, who never had a E-9 filecard, but should have. Not sure the exact number of named Joes but I assume 250 to 300. Not including Steel Brigade or Green Shirts. If you consider the Joes to be rotating through and either retiring or going back to Big Army or higher command, those numbers might be smaller all around. Still in the end the Joes are a little top heavy, but that is to be expected. The training requirements just to get to the point where they would become Joes, makes them all at least E-6s, which is in line with Special Forces. Delta must be even higher. A newbee Green Beret might be an E-5, and he probably wouldn't be ready for the Joes.
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