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10-01-2015, 02:05 AM | #20081 |
Commando
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Britain
Posts: 3,827
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Ultimate Force is not well regarded over here. Ultimate FARCE it's often called.
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10-01-2015, 02:32 AM | #20082 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
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Nice line up Cap
In relation to Ultimate Force....just a warning, it gets pretty crap after Season 2 (or 3). From memory the first season had the Troop Commander Dotsy Doheny played by the actor who was later Apollo in the re-imagined Battle Star Galactica. Ultimate Force's first season is supposed to be based on the SAS's Counter Revolutionary Warfare Wing (CRW) and I think it's based on Red Troop (Air and Mobility form Red Troop and Mountain & Water form Blue Troop). That's why they get task directed by the CO. I think in Season 4 when the Troop rotates back to their parent Squadron, they report to a Squadron CO. From what I've read pre 9-11 SAS was always chronically undermanned. Most times there were no Officers leading and even if they were, they most often would only be around for a year or two before being returned to their parent unit whereas NCO's could be there for decades. Also, when deployed the Troop Commander most often would be the liaison between Higher HQ or Civilian authorities leaving the Troop Sergeant (Staff Sergeants) to lead the troops. I believe the pre 9-11 Special Forces were like this with the Team Sergeants or Warrants leading the ODA's. I think it was Andy McNab who related that when he joined 7 Troop (Air) it was so undermanned that the entire troop was 8 guys. Ultimate Force was the co-created by Chris Ryan (also of Bravo Two Zero fame) and also co-created the TV series Strikeback (originally based on his novel). In almost all his works, his protagonists almost always get their orders from the CO or occasionally the Ops Officer (Major) whom the lead character always has a gripe with but is respected and protected by the CO. Ryan makes a few cameos in the first 2 seasons as the NCO leader of Blue Troop. |
10-01-2015, 02:58 AM | #20083 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
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Quote:
Reading a few books on the go at the moment; Operation Mayhem (about the Parachute Regiment's Pathfinder Platoon's adventures in Sierra Leone. I noticed on my lunch break that the author has a new one out called 'X Platoon' also about the Pathfinders. It's a neat bookend to the two books by David Blakeley about the Pathfinders. Just finished 'Relentless Strike' by Sean Naylor (tons of info about Delta and DEVGRU which may or may not be accurate) and also finished 'Modern American Snipers' which also gives alot of (conflicting) information about DEVGRU and Delta. The writer also meanders alot but it's compelling if quick reading. I read a book by Ami Ahmed called 'World's Apart'. It's about the first group of women to attempt SAS selection. I do not recommend it, it's only 200 pages or so (as an e-Book) but it can be painful. It's about a young Muslim woman who decides to join the Territorial Army (equivalent to the National Guard I guess) and decided to try the 21 or 23 SAS (the old Territorial SAS Regiments). She turns up one day for an interview, pretty much gets laughed at then is called back a week later and is thrown into a group of other women (mostly Intel Officers and Amazon types) and it's explained (barely) that the CO of 22 SAS wants to experiment with female operators. It's never explained why she attempts it in the first place, beyond the whole 'They said I couldn't do it'. It's 200 pages of her complaining about the very physical pre-selection phase and then the actual selection. It's also never explained why so many Territorial candidates do selection with the Regular 22 SAS candidates. She and another woman manage to get all the way to the last 2 weeks before the plug is pulled (when the 22 SAS OC retires) and it just stops like that. The reader (or this reader) is left with 'Why', what was the point of it all, the female candidates who fall by the wayside still get to go on operations with the boys (never mentioned but I guess they were 14 Inte / Det / Special Reconnaissance Regiment)and she who get almost to the end goes back to the Admin Dept. As a book about feminism, sexism and racism it probably works, even if the sexism and racism aren't overt or even malicious. Just things like she has to eat pork products but that's all that's in the MRE's and no one was told about any dietary restrictions and the general 'why the women here' attitude from the guys. As a book about the SAS or women in Special Ops, it's a big fail. |
10-01-2015, 07:32 AM | #20084 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: over here
Posts: 2,092
|
Thanks for the clarification on Ultimate Force! I didn't even put two and two together that they were part of the CRW. I had read about it being comprised of Red and Blue Troop but just didn't see it.
In regards to books I just finished "Pathfinder" last night. I thought it was a really good read. I will probably get the author's other book "Maverick One". I'll have to check out "Relentless Strike" as well. Even if the information on Delta is not 100% accurate it might give me some more ideas on how to structure my Joes. |
10-01-2015, 08:03 AM | #20085 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
|
Quote:
Thanks for the clarification on Ultimate Force! I didn't even put two and two together that they were part of the CRW. I had read about it being comprised of Red and Blue Troop but just didn't see it.
In regards to books I just finished "Pathfinder" last night. I thought it was a really good read. I will probably get the author's other book "Maverick One". I'll have to check out "Relentless Strike" as well. Even if the information on Delta is not 100% accurate it might give me some more ideas on how to structure my Joes. For example, he openly confirms the existence of the so called 'funny platoon', once called Operations Support Troop and now called G Squadron. It's made up of Recce Specialists, Snipers, HUMINT collectors and they operate in both official cover (attached to an embassy with legit credentials) and non-official cover (using aliases and general spy stuff). DEVGRU has a similar Squadron called 'Black Team / Squadron' He describes in detail Delta's aviation arm (E Squadron), their Computer Network Operations cell which started as two shooters (and former SF Communications Sergeants) playing around with hacking and has reportedly grown first into its own Squadron, then its own little sub group within JSOC. He describes in detail alot of known operations (Neptune Spear, rescue of Capt Phillips, etc) and uses alot of operator's real names. As such he's angered alot within the SMU and SOF communities. A very good read |
10-01-2015, 09:16 AM | #20086 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
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I've been thinking about Stalker lately, trying to figure out his progression in my 'verse. This is what I've got;
Enlisted in the Army already fluent in Spanish Attends Basic, AIT, Army Airborne School (Basic Static Line) Enters Ranger RGT after completion of RASP Employed in various roles within the BN including its Recon Platoon Upon completion of Ranger School, promoted to E-5 and joins a LRS detachment. Attends Military Free-Fall course Serves as a Squad Leader (still on paper as an Asst Leader) for a LRS patrol with Wade Collins, Ramon Escobedo, Dickie Saperstein, Snake Eyes and Tommy Arashikage Passes the Q-Course as a Special Forces Medic with a Combat Dive ODA Now an E-6, posted to 3rd SFGA in the AFRICOM AO as a junior Medic and completed language courses in French and later picks up basic Swahili and Arabic (after 3rd SFGA rotation into Iraq) Promoted to E-7 attends 18F Intelligence Sergeants Course (SFIC), Leaves the SF community temporarily to get E-8 experience as a Ranger Reconnaissance Company Team Sgt. Already MFF and Dive qualified, he attends Mountain Training (Tundra Ranger Stalker) I know even Delta guys leave Delta for SGM experience. One of the Snipers featured in Dalton Fury's book called 'Shrek' left Delta to be a Troop Sgt in the 7th SFGA Commander's In Extremis Force Company(CIF) but I don't know whether an SF guy would leave for a Ranger RGT post Selected to attempt selection for the Joe program What I can't include is his role as an EOD Technician (2002-2005). It just doesn't work for me. As far as I know there are no EOD's in the Rangers. The 28th Ordnance Company (EOD)(ABN) fill that role for them. What do you guys think? Last edited by Tyroc; 10-01-2015 at 09:20 AM.. |
10-01-2015, 02:25 PM | #20087 |
Commando
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Britain
Posts: 3,827
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one thing to note RE: officers in the SAS, as Captain Blakely notes in Maverick One, British Army SOP is that an officer only spends 2 years in a posting, he was in the Paras just under four years, two in a command position, then as head of Signals before joining the Pathfinders after less than two years, which peed off his CO. He was two years in the Pathfinders as 2IC before then joining the SAS and then leaving the Army. SOP for the SAS is officers join for 2 years and then RTU and then have to try to get back in, on cadre as a permanent fixture.
If anyone's interested, Blakely's currently appearing in a TV show over here called "Hunted" a kind of reality game show thing where people have to try to live off the grid and are hunted by ex-military, police and Intelligence types. He's one of the hunters. Also of interest, to some, BBC 2 are coming to the end of a six week show called "Special Forces: Ultimate Hell Week" in which 29 civilians (no police or ex-Army types, all 'extreme sports' or endurance athletes) are put through 12 days of SF training, 48 hours with a different SF instructor. first 2 days were with two USN SEALs, second two were an Israeli from Yaman, then 2 with a serving Lt. in Phillipino NAVSOG, two with an SASR guy, two with a Russian Spetsnaz guy and the final is two days with (natch) British SAS. People have dropped out or been kicked along the way and 6 remain for the final. Two of whom are women (five women started). |
10-01-2015, 04:52 PM | #20088 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,236
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Quote:
I've been thinking about Stalker lately, trying to figure out his progression in my 'verse. This is what I've got;
Enlisted in the Army already fluent in Spanish Attends Basic, AIT, Army Airborne School (Basic Static Line) Enters Ranger RGT after completion of RASP Employed in various roles within the BN including its Recon Platoon Upon completion of Ranger School, promoted to E-5 and joins a LRS detachment. Attends Military Free-Fall course Serves as a Squad Leader (still on paper as an Asst Leader) for a LRS patrol with Wade Collins, Ramon Escobedo, Dickie Saperstein, Snake Eyes and Tommy Arashikage Passes the Q-Course as a Special Forces Medic with a Combat Dive ODA Now an E-6, posted to 3rd SFGA in the AFRICOM AO as a junior Medic and completed language courses in French and later picks up basic Swahili and Arabic (after 3rd SFGA rotation into Iraq) Promoted to E-7 attends 18F Intelligence Sergeants Course (SFIC), Leaves the SF community temporarily to get E-8 experience as a Ranger Reconnaissance Company Team Sgt. Already MFF and Dive qualified, he attends Mountain Training (Tundra Ranger Stalker) I know even Delta guys leave Delta for SGM experience. One of the Snipers featured in Dalton Fury's book called 'Shrek' left Delta to be a Troop Sgt in the 7th SFGA Commander's In Extremis Force Company(CIF) but I don't know whether an SF guy would leave for a Ranger RGT post Selected to attempt selection for the Joe program What I can't include is his role as an EOD Technician (2002-2005). It just doesn't work for me. As far as I know there are no EOD's in the Rangers. The 28th Ordnance Company (EOD)(ABN) fill that role for them. What do you guys think? Last edited by Tanksmasher; 10-01-2015 at 05:13 PM.. |
10-01-2015, 06:26 PM | #20089 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: over here
Posts: 2,092
|
Quote:
Maverick One is a good read, just be warned though, there's alot of overlap between the books. he repeats some of the same material. Relentless Strike I'd highly recommend. The information he presents is very accurate to some and horrendously over exaggerated and out of date to others, depending on which military forum you go to and how incensed about OPSEC violation they are
For example, he openly confirms the existence of the so called 'funny platoon', once called Operations Support Troop and now called G Squadron. It's made up of Recce Specialists, Snipers, HUMINT collectors and they operate in both official cover (attached to an embassy with legit credentials) and non-official cover (using aliases and general spy stuff). DEVGRU has a similar Squadron called 'Black Team / Squadron' He describes in detail Delta's aviation arm (E Squadron), their Computer Network Operations cell which started as two shooters (and former SF Communications Sergeants) playing around with hacking and has reportedly grown first into its own Squadron, then its own little sub group within JSOC. He describes in detail alot of known operations (Neptune Spear, rescue of Capt Phillips, etc) and uses alot of operator's real names. As such he's angered alot within the SMU and SOF communities. A very good read Quote:
I've been thinking about Stalker lately, trying to figure out his progression in my 'verse. This is what I've got;
Enlisted in the Army already fluent in Spanish Attends Basic, AIT, Army Airborne School (Basic Static Line) Enters Ranger RGT after completion of RASP Employed in various roles within the BN including its Recon Platoon Upon completion of Ranger School, promoted to E-5 and joins a LRS detachment. Attends Military Free-Fall course Serves as a Squad Leader (still on paper as an Asst Leader) for a LRS patrol with Wade Collins, Ramon Escobedo, Dickie Saperstein, Snake Eyes and Tommy Arashikage Passes the Q-Course as a Special Forces Medic with a Combat Dive ODA Now an E-6, posted to 3rd SFGA in the AFRICOM AO as a junior Medic and completed language courses in French and later picks up basic Swahili and Arabic (after 3rd SFGA rotation into Iraq) Promoted to E-7 attends 18F Intelligence Sergeants Course (SFIC), Leaves the SF community temporarily to get E-8 experience as a Ranger Reconnaissance Company Team Sgt. Already MFF and Dive qualified, he attends Mountain Training (Tundra Ranger Stalker) I know even Delta guys leave Delta for SGM experience. One of the Snipers featured in Dalton Fury's book called 'Shrek' left Delta to be a Troop Sgt in the 7th SFGA Commander's In Extremis Force Company(CIF) but I don't know whether an SF guy would leave for a Ranger RGT post Selected to attempt selection for the Joe program What I can't include is his role as an EOD Technician (2002-2005). It just doesn't work for me. As far as I know there are no EOD's in the Rangers. The 28th Ordnance Company (EOD)(ABN) fill that role for them. What do you guys think? |
10-01-2015, 08:23 PM | #20090 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
|
Thanks guys, Tank in regards to the E-8 experience, I guess I just wanted Stalker to transition from the Rangers to the Joes only because he's always been more associated with the Rangers than with SF. In the Hama verse, he was sometimes referred to as 'Ranger' which always seemed odd to me because most of them had attended Ranger School or had been part of the Regiment themselves.
The SSE angle is awesome thank you. I forgot that SF guys have to attend a SSE basic course these days (and some complete the Adv course). I was thinking maybe he enlisted as a 21B, got his sapper tab and attended the 'Explosive Ordnance Clearance Agent' course. It was designed to give Combat Engineers an EOD like capability without changing career direction. I looked online and found that until recently the course was accepting Enlisted E-4 to E-7 and Officers O-1 to O-3. Stalker could have completed the course, then transitioned to the Ranger Regiment. Of course all this would mean he would have spent most of his career training and schooling instead of out there operating. |
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