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01-10-2009, 01:17 AM | #1991 |
#voteblackjack
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Also, I reread WWIII recently. Issue 6 (of 12) has all the files on the Plague. I've got to make some customs... those guys are awesome.
Has anyone done some Plague customs? I think Hasbro has made about 6 of the members of the Plague (Munitia comes out as a DTC figure this month). I think that by using a DTC Saw Viper and a DTC Snow Serpent and an original Night Creeper, I can make three more customs that will fit in pretty well with the others and bring the total up to about 9 members of my Plague unit. I wish that had been worked into it more. The Joe team versus Cobra, who is comprised of people who are equals and greater then the Joes and add on top of that the numbers of the Cobra army. That would have really given the Joes a tough fight and really made them underdogs. Which would have made for some good stories. Looking back on the cartoons, they are pretty laughable at how sad Cobra is. It's a surprise they were ever able to give the Joes a hard time.
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01-10-2009, 01:05 PM | #1992 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
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Like I've said before, I think the Plague was really needed. Cobra had to have recruited some elite ex-military from across the world. Not all their troops would be thugs and "basic" military (not meaning that an infantry soldier is less then a ranger, just meaning in terms of the extra training and all that). Some of 'em would even be equal to or greater then the Joes in terms of experience/training/skill.
I wish that had been worked into it more. The Joe team versus Cobra, who is comprised of people who are equals and greater then the Joes and add on top of that the numbers of the Cobra army. That would have really given the Joes a tough fight and really made them underdogs. Which would have made for some good stories. Looking back on the cartoons, they are pretty laughable at how sad Cobra is. It's a surprise they were ever able to give the Joes a hard time. Although cobra is more of an army, I think they already had the basis of elite corp. The Phoenix Guard members showed that. Copperhead(possible SEAL); Firefly; Storm Shadow(Ranger); Scrap-Iron; Zartan; The Twins(French Foreign Legion); Major Bludd(SAS); Wild Weasel;(Bush War Mecernary). Those are cobra elite. Remember when there was only 50 joes and cobras? It was elite versus elite every time. My Joes always won, but Storm Shadow always escaped. Now add the plague members like Guillotine(SEAL) & Blackout. There is a dozen guys there. I wasn't impressed with all the Plague Members. Interrogator, Munitia & Incision(Aleph) were cool. I would have liked if they kept Rip It and SkyCreeper. The rest were there to die. Bunch of no names. |
01-10-2009, 01:13 PM | #1993 |
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2 points for discussion...
1. As mentioned earlier, Claymore did 3 tours in 'Nam. Given the fact that he's a Ranger, speaks all the languages and all the other training, has an Ivy League education, etc. And given the fact that one of his specialties is like Intel/Counter Terrorism - Do you think he was with the Phoenix Program in 'Nam, and basically was a commando tasked to work for C.I.A.? 2. Do you think it's plausible that after Lady Jaye was killed, Snake-Eyes may have reached out to Flint as one who understands that kind of pain, and Flint may have trained with Snake-Eyes as a way of healing and refocusing? I'm very interested to hear what y'all think. |
01-10-2009, 01:20 PM | #1994 |
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There is a Tiger Force Mutt - 2006 convention special edition figure. Also produced were Tiger Force Beachhead, Tiger Force Hard Top, and Tiger Force Zartan/Hawk.
Lady Jaye is an interesting case. She did her Masters degree at Trinity College in Ireland and she speaks with a bit of an Irish lilt... no wonder Flint fell for her right away. I suppose the birthplaces always sort of surprise me. There are a ton of Joes from Rhode Island - A TON. I know it's where Hasbro is, but there are states that have only one Joe, and it would be nice to share a little bit. I suppose I'm biased in that regard. Intersting, I think it's funny what's left out of Flint's file card. For as much is made out of his Rhodes scholarship, the Rhodes scholarship is about doing graduate work in England at Oxford University. What's not explained is where Flint earned his undergraduate degree. He obviously didn't go to West Point, or he'd be a commisioned Officer - an LT or above. Rhodes Scholarships are hard to come by, but you don't have to go to an Ivy League School. The University of Mississippi has produced 24 Rhodes Scholars, for example. The University of Tennessee has produced 6. This wouldn't be so abnormal, but they do mention where other Joes have gone to school if their educations were noteworthy: Lady jaye at Brwn Myer, Claymore at Dartmouth, etc. To make so much of Flint's schooling, and then not to mention his alma mater seems odd to me. Somehow, I've always liked to think of him as a Duke man. It's close to Special Forces HQ at Ft. Bragg, it's on par with a lot of Ivy League Schools. I'm sure some tar heels will disagree, but I've got no hatred for UNC. It just seems to fit Flint's personality and Duke does produce a fair number of Rhode Scholars and has a broad appeal nationally. |
01-10-2009, 06:20 PM | #1995 |
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01-11-2009, 09:37 PM | #1996 |
Sleepdeprived Dad
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Hey guys,
I happen to read the 25th Anniv. file card for Lift-Ticket and noticed his grade as a CW2. What does that mean?
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01-11-2009, 11:30 PM | #1997 |
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Flint is CW-3 Major Altitude is a WO-2 but that is probably the same as CW-2 Wild Bill is CW-4 Torpedo is WO-4 or WO-5 or (0-3 now he is Lt. Torpedo) Wet-Down is the only other Warrant Officer (W0-5) in the Joes. That is higher ranking than any enlisted man. Duke included. |
01-12-2009, 11:17 AM | #1998 |
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Hey Guys, I've been away and I just caught up on the discussion. Sorry I missed it. That was great. Everyone had really good points. Really excellent topic, Lister. I mean it. I enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts on the Joe's ages and the continuity.
To summarize my thoughts, the age of the Joes is one of the biggest reasons I'm in support of the IDW relaunch. Time and historical events was one of the best things about the old Marvel series: it gave it a grounding in reality and experience. However, it seems like a mixed blessing to me because the characters do age. I figure Hawk would have been around 40-42 when G.I. Joe started (probably a Major or LTC in 'Nam). Stalker, Snake-Eyes, and Storm Shadow, and Mainframe would all be close to 60 by now. Duke would easily be pushing 70. Even Tunnel Rat was a Grenada Vet... when was that, like '82? He'd even be getting pretty old by now. It's hard to guess age based on rank. What Loose Cannon and others have said regarding time in service in regards to rank makes a lot of sense, I just don't know if it's applicable in Joeverse. It seems like a lot of those guys should have been promoted more regularly. Why did Falcon stay a LT for so long? Can't he ever make Captain? He would need to be a Bird Colonel by now. G.I. Joe was so relevant to so many issues in the 80's, not the least of which was the aftermath of the Vietnam War, and the concerns of the Vietnam Vets. Some TV shows dealt with similar issues... Magnum and the A-Team come to my mind most readily. I think G.I. Joe fell somewhere between Magnum and the A-Team. It was, at times fantastic and implausible like the A-Team, but it had strong character development and genuinely emotionally moving stories like Magnum. And it was respectful to the veterans and gave them the recognition of their expertise and experience. For that reason, I'm glad IDW is rebooting the series. Maybe, they will be able to take these characters and reboot them, and make them as relevant for our nation today as they were in the 80's. Our wars today are different from Vietnam, but there are certain parallels to be drawn and experiences to be compared. The age of the Joe team is one of the things that I love about the Joe Team: they seem more real, more tangible, more serious. I'm excited to see that same dynamic work again 30-40 years after Vietnam. My Uncle, who served as a Platoon Sgt (E-7). in 7th Special Forces Group in Vietnam in '67 - '69 said this to my friend when he recently got home from Iraq (my friend served in the Infantry), "I think that for the first time in nearly 40 years, the whole Country and the military is remembering what is was like to fight in a S---hole like Vietnam. Iraq, with all the insurgents and terrorists disguised like civilians is a lot like Vietnam - it's just sand instead of jungle. I feel like that for the first time since Vietnam, soldiers today understand a lot better about what we went through over there." And speaking of Falcon, I've always thought he was a great character with alot of potential that was ultimately wasted. The comic portrayed him well enough but the cartoon really screwed him up. Based on his filecard, he seemed like he was cut from the same cloth as guys like Hawk, Duke, Flint, and Stalker. A good soldier and a good leader. And as a young officer, it felt like he should have been groomed to lead the whole team someday. Last edited by lister; 01-12-2009 at 03:43 PM.. |
01-12-2009, 11:22 AM | #1999 |
#voteblackjack
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And speaking of Falcon, I've always thought he was a great character with alot of potential that was ultimately wasted. The comic portrayed him well enough but the cartoon really screwed him up. He seemed like he was cut from the same cloth as guys like Hawk, Duke, Flint, and Stalker. A good soldier and a good leader. And as a young officer, it felt like he should have been groomed to lead the whole team someday.
The cartoon was horrible, there's no way a guy like that would have made LT or even made the Joe team to begin with. That kind of attitude and such would have had him discharged awhile ago.
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01-12-2009, 11:26 AM | #2000 |
#voteblackjack
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Although cobra is more of an army, I think they already had the basis of elite corp. The Phoenix Guard members showed that. Copperhead(possible SEAL); Firefly; Storm Shadow(Ranger); Scrap-Iron; Zartan; The Twins(French Foreign Legion); Major Bludd(SAS); Wild Weasel;(Bush War Mecernary). Those are cobra elite.
I wasn't surprised, but it was kind of cool to see Scrap-Iron as more of a tech guy then just a guy with a missile launcher. Wild Weasel was always shown as a great pilot, but to see him as more then just an air jockey. And Copperhead, before that, was just a boat driver. So the Phoenix Guard showed these guys as being capable of being elite and going toe-to-toe with the Joes. Just took alot of years for that potential to be shown. And yeah, it should have always been there.
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