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09-02-2015, 02:01 PM | #19881 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
|
SAS Squadrons are reportedly 60 man units (sometimes augmented by cooks, drivers, armorers, specialists etc), 16 man Troops, 4 man Patrols. However, I recently picked up 'The SAS Combat Handbook' and in the preface the author mentioned that since 9/11, Patrols are now generally 6 man units to account for all the extra tech gear they use now.
As for the Joes set up, I guess in the end, it depends on what kind of mission the Joes perform in your 'verse. The problem I've been having over the years in trying to make my Joeverse 'fit' is that it doesn't and won't fit any particular unit or formation. In one of the last discussions in Zulu's thread he talked about how 'form follows function', it didn't really register with me at the time but over the years, I ended up in the same kind of problems he did (although not so detailed as his obviously). I kept trying to make it a mishmash of this and that and thus it didn't seem to work and I would keep going back to the drawing board. |
09-02-2015, 02:08 PM | #19882 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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That's half the fun, but I think I have the same issue with my Green Shirts. I have a dozen or so with my Airborne team to make the 60 man roster, but They should be added to the Mobility/Armor as gunners, and my Airborne can be smaller? I'm still figuring it out. Of my nearly 400 characters, 24-36 are just way too high in rank, and another, 24 are no names. It's fine though I think they serve a purpose., but this is why I left off the PIT in my decisions this time. Not sure about the other big vehicles and Armor and Aircraft. My 60 man team looks more like 50 operaters per Squadron which still isnt so bad.
__________________
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
09-02-2015, 02:16 PM | #19883 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
|
It's only lately that I've started looking at Field Manuals and Tables of Organization & Equipment lists have actually thought about the 'how it's organized' and the 'why', Why do the Joes exist? what caused them to be created and what mission do they have that cannot be done by other units, conventional or otherwise.
If the team was created to deal with Cobra, then it's most likely a Joint Task Force BUT in almost every incarnation, the Joes were formed BEFORE Cobra became a threat so what were they created for before Cobra came along? Still trying to work that one out logically and I guess trying to answer that leads to what is Cobra? Is it a terror organization? a criminal enterprise, Rogue power, Corrupt Corporation, Rogue Private Security Company. What I've come to is that the Joe team as envisioned by Chuck Dixon's IDW run is actually the one that resonates with me, aside from the whole being dead to join thing, everything else seems to fit into how I see the Joes operating. Small teams of highly skilled operators working in regular teams with a ton of support personnel, full Battle Staff, dedicated air lift assets and drones instead of fighter jets. The support part is what always trips me up. Any realistic unit needs lots of support people, otherwise it all falls down. Even using as many as the comic / cartoon only characters and international versions of characters only fills up a so many slots (Don't get me started on the Flagg crew). |
09-02-2015, 02:20 PM | #19884 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
|
Quote:
That's half the fun, but I think I have the same issue with my Green Shirts. I have a dozen or so with my Airborne team to make the 60 man roster, but They should be added to the Mobility/Armor as gunners, and my Airborne can be smaller? I'm still figuring it out. Of my nearly 400 characters, 24-36 are just way too high in rank, and another, 24 are no names. It's fine though I think they serve a purpose., but this is why I left off the PIT in my decisions this time. Not sure about the other big vehicles and Armor and Aircraft. My 60 man team looks more like 50 operaters per Squadron which still isnt so bad.
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09-02-2015, 02:27 PM | #19885 |
Commando
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Britain
Posts: 3,827
|
the way I'm treating GI Joe in my fan-fic is that, since they were reinstated in 1995, they are a special military task-force operating under direct Presidential control outside the usual chain of command and with a force structure unlike anything else. Hawk is the CO and reports to the President, but the Joes have to beg, borrow and cajole the regular forces to get kit, range time (for flight exercises at RED FLAG or wherever) and so on.
Captain Falcon leads the SF unit of Green Berets/Delta types: Recoil, Hit&Run, Alpha Dog, Spearhead, Footloose and Beach Head. Torpedo leads the SEAL team: Wet Suit, Wet Down, Tracker, Night Fox, Lone Star and Depthcharge with Shipwreck as SWCC. Captain Grid-Iron leads the infantry team which basically comprises the fire-support element and the other non-SF qualified guys. Sky Patrol is a six-man paratroop recon/Pathfinder team Marine Raiders is a six-man amphibious recon team Major Storm leads the mobile artillery/mechanised assault unit - basically the M1A2 Abrams tanks, Wolverine missile tanks and Armadillo mini-tanks, Cover Girl, Clutch, Skidmark, Rampage, Rollbar, Steeler, Switch Gears, Thunderwing, etc. There's then a Naval ops unit (Cutter, Topside, Rampart in a WHALE), an Arctic ops team headed by Snow Job (Frostbite, Cold Front, Windchill, Sub Zero, Blizzard etc), an extreme conditions unit (Dusty, Big Brawler, Outback, Recondo, Pathfinder, Muskrat), an EOD team, a MP/K9 unit (Shockwave, Wide Scope, Mutt, Surefire, Law), a medical team (Lifeline, Med Alert, Stretcher, Guardian Angel, Swimfin and Splashdown) and then the Air Wing - which is not really a wing - Ace leads Barrel Roll, Bombstrike, Dogfight, Skystriker, Freestyle and Ghost Rider in the fighter squadron (with three OCs), while Wild Bill leads Lift Ticket, Windmill, Updraft, Major Altitude and some OCs in the helo squad. Stalker is senior NCO since Duke retired. General Flagg is XO, Col. Courage is Ops officer. |
09-02-2015, 02:30 PM | #19886 |
Commando
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Britain
Posts: 3,827
|
My fic uses the idea they're not Joes, just USN personnel crewing the Flagg. Only Keel Haul was an actual Joe. When the Joes were disbanded, the Flagg was transferred to the USN along with its Skystrikers and Keel Haul retired.
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09-02-2015, 02:35 PM | #19887 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
|
Great set up Capt.
Btw, if anyone integrates the Corps, they've re-done their website and the character bios are awesome MEET THE CHARACTERS - The Headquarters of The Corps!® Military Action Figure Universe! |
09-02-2015, 03:02 PM | #19888 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
|
Quote:
65 if you include the senior leadership. (I am trying to rationalize a way to include my 12 Generals, and 12 Colonels and 12 Lt. Colonels.) Essentially I have Colton, Keel-Haul, Austin, Sharpe, Hollingsworth, LJ Flagg (Not dead) Funding each unit separately. Those Six are the Jugglers. THey each control some funding stream, and this is how they divide up the JOE budget, since everything is off the books. Each one has a O-7 General under his command who is the Commander in Theater with an O-6 Deputy.
(O-7)--(Hawk, Flagg, Rey, Ledger, Iron-Bear, SAD Guy) (O-6)--(Payload, Trent, Braddock, Trautman, Hannibal, Eagle(Not Action Force), Courage, Brehkov, Doc, Jane, MIke Powers, INdiana Jones) None of these guys really see any action. I read the re-imagined version of Tom Clancy's Op Center recently and it gave me the idea to create a team like yours which are Joe Command / the Jugglers (all the Generals) and the stand alone Joe unit led by; Commander O6 - Hawk Deputy Commander - O6 Keel Haul XO - O5 IDW Firewall J1 - Major Hidalgo (from the Renegades Cartoon) J2 - O5 (Haven't decided yet - maybe Hammer Down from the IDW comic) J3 - O5 Rey or Storm J4 - Civilian O4 equivalent Billdocker (from IDW) J6 - Major Sparks Comptroller - Major Hooper (From ARAH mini series / Baroness Disguise) Command Surgeon - Major Doc or GI Jane Training - LTC Guile (From Street Fighters) The Flag officer Joes form a Special Operations Executive (some are retired military in civilian roles) directly reporting to the National Command Authority. Joe Colton is the Director. There is some precedence for Special Operations being run outside the normal chain of command. Oliver North ran a few Special Operations out of the National Security Advisor's Office, Donald Rumsfeld ran a ton of secretive units (mostly SIGINT and others) from the SECDEF office during his reign to name a few. |
09-02-2015, 03:09 PM | #19889 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
|
Quote:
Great set up Capt.
Btw, if anyone integrates the Corps, they've re-done their website and the character bios are awesome MEET THE CHARACTERS - The Headquarters of The Corps!® Military Action Figure Universe!
__________________
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
09-02-2015, 03:29 PM | #19890 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
|
Quote:
The Joes are too top heavy. Too many Flag officers and not nearly enough field grade and junior officers. For the longest time I tried 'demoting' some of them but it just didn't feel right having Hawk outrank a guy like Hollingsworth.
I read the re-imagined version of Tom Clancy's Op Center recently and it gave me the idea to create a team like yours which are Joe Command / the Jugglers (all the Generals) and the stand alone Joe unit led by; Commander O6 - Hawk Deputy Commander - O6 Keel Haul XO - O5 IDW Firewall J1 - Major Hidalgo (from the Renegades Cartoon) J2 - O5 (Haven't decided yet - maybe Hammer Down from the IDW comic) J3 - O5 Rey or Storm J4 - Civilian O4 equivalent Billdocker (from IDW) J6 - Major Sparks Comptroller - Major Hooper (From ARAH mini series / Baroness Disguise) Command Surgeon - Major Doc or GI Jane Training - LTC Guile (From Street Fighters) The Flag officer Joes form a Special Operations Executive (some are retired military in civilian roles) directly reporting to the National Command Authority. Joe Colton is the Director. There is some precedence for Special Operations being run outside the normal chain of command. Oliver North ran a few Special Operations out of the National Security Advisor's Office, Donald Rumsfeld ran a ton of secretive units (mostly SIGINT and others) from the SECDEF office during his reign to name a few. Essentially lets say the Joes need to go to Somalia, part of AFRICOM. The local theater commander might be a Colonel. (Although I think this would be Combined Joint Task Force Horn of Africa Joint Commmand under a Major General.) Gen Rey shows up and is given temporary command, Because Major General Sharpe who is a Deputy AFRICOM commander says so. Rey and his senior staff set up a headquarters but including the commanders on site. However his Sqaudron, under a Lt. Colonel most likely, gets all the action. Rey is just there to make sure they get all the support they need.
__________________
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
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