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07-16-2015, 07:55 AM | #19661 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Quote:
Yup, spot on
Just to finish off the SASR structure; 4 SAS (Clandestine Action Squadron) - works with ASIS (Oz equivalent of the CIA) -HQ troop - A Troop - B Troop - Signals Troop 5 SAS (Army Reserve) - HQ Troop - A Troop (Ready Reserve) - B Troop (General Reserve West) - C Troop (General Reserve East) - D Troop (Specialist Reserve) - Signals Troop (Reserve) 1 SRS (Special Reconnaissance) - HQ Troop - x 4 Troops A-D (x 2 HUMINT Platoons & x 2 SIGINT Platoons each) - E Troop (Reserve) - F Troop (Technical Support) As an addendum to the Sabre Squadrons. One company sized troop rotates thru to the Counter Terrorist role and becomes Tactical Assault Group West (TAG-West). This way, 2 platoons are on immediate response and 2 are on ready reserve at any one time. The Counter Revolutionary Warfare Wing provides a small cadre of specialists who train, study techniques and doctrine and provide the specialist equipment when needed. Tactical Assault Group - East is formed from the 2nd Commando Regiment and Specialist Divers from the Royal Australian Navy (RAN) provide Clearance Divers for the Offshore Assault capability (kind of like Navy SEALs but they're considered more Special Operations Capable than actual Special Operations,think of them like the Navy EOD's who deploy with the SEALs). The 2nd Commando regiment are kind of like the Royal Marine Commandos but are regarded as Special Operations and not regular infantry. Some further info https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_assault_group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_Co...28Australia%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specia...28Australia%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleara...Team_%28RAN%29 Here is a question about Delta: it has been said that Beckwith structured it after the SAS. However everything I read about only indicates that each Sabre Squadron has only three Troops instead of four. Plus they are broken into two Assault Troops and one Recce Troop whereas it seems all SAS Troops perform both assault and recon. Some material even indicates that Delta has HALO, SCUBA, Mountain Troops but I don't see how that would be done when you have two different Troop types and only three Troops. Does one Squadron have a HALO and Mountain Assault Troop while their Recce Troop is SCUBA-qualified while another Squadron may have a HALO and SCUBA Assault Troop and a Mountain Recce Troop? I would think that only the Recce Troops would need to be stealthy when it comes to insertion (such as HALO and SCUBA) whereas an Assault Troop would just insert for quick strike missions (such as fast-roping out of helicopters or rolling up in HUMVEE's or other armored vehicles)? Quote:
TAG-East and TAG-WEST completely separate from any of the squadrons? They the same as SAS CRW?
The more we delve into these there almost seems like the Joes seem more of a fit for one of these sub teams within a larger Special operations Force like the Increment or this TAG West, or the Counter Revolutionary Wing with some intelligence assets thrown in. I am partially basing this on the size of GIJoe which seems like a small Battalion 200-300 men Not sure about the armor and artillery but John has made a great illustration of how those members function well as a Mobility troop. 2nd Commando more like Royal Marines or SBS? Although in regards to armor and artillery if I went with a MEU setup then they would definitely have those kinds of assets. However I like the SAS/Delta structure and feel there would be more unit cohesiveness if a guy like Steeler were in the same unit as a guy like Airborne. I have had a fanfic in the works for about two years and I am attempting to solidify how the Joes will be structured (after many revisions, lol). Although I will admit, half the fun is placing my Joes into different structures.... |
07-16-2015, 08:04 AM | #19662 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
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Since I did the structure for the SASR, I may as well do the same for the Commando Regiments. I don't have much information on the higher HQ but as you guys can see from the wiki page, the breakdown is;
Regiment HQ x 4 Companies A-D Signals Company Operations Support Company (Training, Selection & Assessment) Logistic Support Company Each Company has; Company HQ (OC, 2IC, Company Sergeant Major (Warrant Officer 1) x 3 Platoons x 3 Weapons Teams x 1 Recon Team Each Platoon has a Platoon HQ and 3 Patrols Platoon HQ - Platoon Commander, Platoon Sergeant, RTO, Medic Each Patrol has; - Patrol Leader - Fire Team Leader - Combat Medic - Radio Operator - Light AT Gunner - Sapper - Ammo Bearer - Light Support Weapon (LSW) Operator Each Weapons Team has a WT Leader, Gunner and Asst Gunner Each Recon Team has a Recon Sniper and an observer / spotter Amongst the Regiment, there are specialist platoons like the Amphibious Platoon which provides water transport operators who operate the RHIBs, Mountain platoon, etc. |
07-16-2015, 08:14 AM | #19663 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
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Quote:
Here is a question about Delta: it has been said that Beckwith structured it after the SAS. Does one Squadron have a HALO and Mountain Assault Troop while their Recce Troop is SCUBA-qualified while another Squadron may have a HALO and SCUBA Assault Troop and a Mountain Recce Troop?
Although I will admit, half the fun is placing my Joes into different structures.... As for placing Joes, I'm in the same boat, everytime I think okay I like it how it is, someone comes up with an idea or I see some new info and it's back to the drawing board. Like you said, it's half the fun |
07-16-2015, 08:51 AM | #19664 |
just a Marine
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: central PA
Posts: 1,681
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Quote:
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07-16-2015, 10:36 AM | #19665 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
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Like you say Tyroc, placing the JOes is half the fun. I can see a Weapons team just being integrated into a Mobility Troop. Sort of what John Shaft did with Rock'n'Roll and Zap. But what about snipers? No matter what the setup there always seems to be a separate sniper team for all these different setups. Never very large maybe a two man team. Sometimes up to 5 or 6?
Lowlight, Crosshairs for sure. Mouse as well. What about Hollow-Point? Ambush seems like the perfect spotter. Then there is Barrel-Roll who is just so confusing as he has a little too much of everything. I see less of a use for him as a Sniper, being that he's Air Force. Now a PJ, maybe an Officer. Air Force Snipers seem a little out of place. Countersniper maybe?
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07-16-2015, 10:52 AM | #19666 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,235
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Quote:
Thanks the wealth of information! Now (for the 1000th time, lol) I am going to restructure my Joes a bit. My main focus will be fleshing out Squadron and Troop HQ sections.
Here is a question about Delta: it has been said that Beckwith structured it after the SAS. However everything I read about only indicates that each Sabre Squadron has only three Troops instead of four. Plus they are broken into two Assault Troops and one Recce Troop whereas it seems all SAS Troops perform both assault and recon. Some material even indicates that Delta has HALO, SCUBA, Mountain Troops but I don't see how that would be done when you have two different Troop types and only three Troops. Does one Squadron have a HALO and Mountain Assault Troop while their Recce Troop is SCUBA-qualified while another Squadron may have a HALO and SCUBA Assault Troop and a Mountain Recce Troop? I would think that only the Recce Troops would need to be stealthy when it comes to insertion (such as HALO and SCUBA) whereas an Assault Troop would just insert for quick strike missions (such as fast-roping out of helicopters or rolling up in HUMVEE's or other armored vehicles)? The only problem I see there is that multiple teams of the same troop can't insert together, and thus can't operate together. Snipers from the sniper troop would support an assault troop, whose teams probably aren't going to operate too far from each other, so they would all need to insert into a restrictive area using the same methods. It seems more logical that each squadron would specialize in one or more insertion method, unlike SF detachments, which do operate independently from other detachments in their company. |
07-16-2015, 11:08 AM | #19667 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
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I know the Sniper section is always hard, especially since there seems to be a difference in their employment between the services. I read a dissertation recently about the differences between the Army and Marine utilization of sniper assets. It was a Naval Post Graduate study (NPS) and the author argued that Snipers in the Army are used as both precision shooters and reconnaissance / surveillance as opposed to the Marines who separate the roles somewhat so snipers can focus on precision targeting and Recon can do the surveillance.
As for other snipers, Stalker and Long Range have been used as snipers in Hama's revived ARAH run. Sneak Peek, Spearhead and a new character called Watch Tower were snipers in the IDW verse. I'm reading about the history of the SASR 1960's to 1990's called 'In Action with the SAS' by David Horner. He describes how when the SASR first adopted the Counter Terrorism role,the initial structure called for 3 Assault Teams of 3 men each and a sniper team of 10 snipers! |
07-16-2015, 06:36 PM | #19668 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: over here
Posts: 2,092
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Quote:
Like you say Tyroc, placing the JOes is half the fun. I can see a Weapons team just being integrated into a Mobility Troop. Sort of what John Shaft did with Rock'n'Roll and Zap. But what about snipers? No matter what the setup there always seems to be a separate sniper team for all these different setups. Never very large maybe a two man team. Sometimes up to 5 or 6?
Lowlight, Crosshairs for sure. Mouse as well. What about Hollow-Point? Ambush seems like the perfect spotter. Then there is Barrel-Roll who is just so confusing as he has a little too much of everything. I see less of a use for him as a Sniper, being that he's Air Force. Now a PJ, maybe an Officer. Air Force Snipers seem a little out of place. Countersniper maybe? Snow Job Spirit Recondo (on the fence) Low-Light Ambush Crosshairs Hollow Point Bullhorn Barrel-Roll Mouse Ballistic (from the Extreme line) Windchill I can't think of anyone else right off the top of my head. Clearly not enough Joes to fill a 16-man Troop if I went with a Delta structure, hence why I was thinking more SAS since (I believe) they integrate snipers into the Troops. Quote:
It's not just about stealth, though, and even the assaulters need to infiltrate an objective covertly. Stealth gives them the initiative and provides them with initial security and detection avoidance. Its possible that each squadron specializes in a special infiltration method, since the squadron would deploy altogether most likely.
The only problem I see there is that multiple teams of the same troop can't insert together, and thus can't operate together. Snipers from the sniper troop would support an assault troop, whose teams probably aren't going to operate too far from each other, so they would all need to insert into a restrictive area using the same methods. It seems more logical that each squadron would specialize in one or more insertion method, unlike SF detachments, which do operate independently from other detachments in their company. Quote:
I know the Sniper section is always hard, especially since there seems to be a difference in their employment between the services. I read a dissertation recently about the differences between the Army and Marine utilization of sniper assets. It was a Naval Post Graduate study (NPS) and the author argued that Snipers in the Army are used as both precision shooters and reconnaissance / surveillance as opposed to the Marines who separate the roles somewhat so snipers can focus on precision targeting and Recon can do the surveillance.
As for other snipers, Stalker and Long Range have been used as snipers in Hama's revived ARAH run. Sneak Peek, Spearhead and a new character called Watch Tower were snipers in the IDW verse. I'm reading about the history of the SASR 1960's to 1990's called 'In Action with the SAS' by David Horner. He describes how when the SASR first adopted the Counter Terrorism role,the initial structure called for 3 Assault Teams of 3 men each and a sniper team of 10 snipers! |
07-16-2015, 07:17 PM | #19669 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
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I thought it was the other way around too as Scout/snipers with the Marines.
Totally forgot about Wind Chill and Ballistic.
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07-17-2015, 12:01 AM | #19670 |
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Ambush makes a awesome sniper. With his ability to blend in, the target will never know he's there until it's lights out.
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