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07-14-2015, 03:08 PM | #19631 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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Quote:
Thanks for the info Tyroc! I believe it was me inquiring on the SAS structure. Most of what I have is from this site which does not go into a Troop HQ:
SAS - Organisation The way they make it sound is that a Troop Commander and a Troop Sergeant are part of the 16-man Troop and each lead a four-man Patrol. It sounds like that is not the case though? I knew Delta did things a little different (3 Troops per Squadron instead of 4). They also separate their assaulters into 2 Troops and recon into 1 Troop, but I did not know they used 6 or 4 man Troops depending on if they were in an Assault or Recon Troop. It seems all the SAS Troops do both assault and recon if I am not mistaken? I would definitely be interested in hearing about the Australian SAS as well as more British SAS and Delta. I can't seem to get enough info on their structure it seems from the sources I have read. Lol Is that a customs thread you have? I will have to check it out. Following that link John provided I now have an wealth of info to follow. Does anyone know more about the Revolutionary Warfare Wing (RWW) Squadron 'E', the Increment? Sounds like the "Activity"
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Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
07-14-2015, 04:29 PM | #19632 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
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Quote:
So does Delta's sniper/recon troop have the same number of men and is it led by an officer as well? I always imagined it might be organized similar to a sniper section led by a senior NCO.
It's curious that they would separate breachers from the main assault troop. Almost all CQC or VBSS or SWAT teams have organic breachers since knocking in doors is what they do everyday. I would assume that all Delta assault troops have a lead breacher and that all assaulters are cross trained to do the job if necessary. In regards to the Breachers, I think it was a response to what was happening; the draw down in Iraq and Afghanistan and a deliberate attempt to pivot away from the GWOT and towards other threats like China, North Korea, and Iran. Hence the spinning off the Breaching teams so they could focus on missions that had more deliberate planning involving Hard and Deeply Buried Targets like Bunkers, Weapons Depots, etc. Of course, the subsequent Arab Spring led to yet another pivot back towards the Arabian Peninsula, North and West Africa. |
07-14-2015, 04:58 PM | #19633 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
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Quote:
From what I've read, the Revolutionary Warfare Wing was created as an outgrowth of SAS operations in Northern Ireland. Proven SAS and SBS operators (guys with at least 5 years Special Forces experience) were sent to work with Military Intelligence groups like 'The Det' and Force Research Unit (FRU) which would later become the Special Reconnaissance Regiment, as well as MI5 and sometimes MI6. Their missions involved mostly close target surveillance, counter sniper and Close protection / VIP Bodyguarding and Foreign Training. Later on, as the situation in Northern Ireland drew down, the RWW worked mostly on deniable operations for MI5 and MI6. Kind of like Delta and DEVGRU working outsourced missions for the CIA. The size of the RWW has always varied according to different reports and authors. Ex-SBS, Royal Marine, Det operator and ex-Increment Duncan Falconer wrote about it in his exploits in his autobiography 'First Into Action'. Both Chris Ryan and Andy McNab of Bravo Two Zero fame wrote about it in their biographies and their 'fiction' novels, (both of them write alot of themselves and real operations in their books). In Chris Ryan's 'The Increment' he wrote that there were only 8 members at any one time. 6 men, 2 women. Subsequently in his other novels, he described the unit as being led by a Major and having 2 full troops, with each troop having 2 6 man teams. I'm reading Ryan's 'The Kremlin Device'. In it, an RWW team of 12 men led by a Warrant Officer 2 (SGM) is sent to Russia to help train a new Spetsnaz unit called 'Tiger Force' to combat the influence of the Russian Mafia. However, just before they deploy, MI6 tasks them with hiding 2 suitcase nukes into Moscow as a just in case deterrent. About a year ago, E Squadron was officially stood up, officially it's composed of veteran SAS operators who are coming to the end of their 20 year careers and it's a way of keeping their organizational memory. Unofficially, I've read that it's now the MI5 / MI6 version of the CIA SAD / SOG. Last edited by Tyroc; 07-14-2015 at 05:05 PM.. |
07-14-2015, 04:59 PM | #19634 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
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Apologies if the previous posts have been somewhat rambling, it's just past 5.30 am my time and I haven't had coffee yet
Oh and Loose, I totally see Sight Line as a USAF CCT as well |
07-14-2015, 06:25 PM | #19635 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: over here
Posts: 2,092
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A lot of great information in here! I just got home from work so will eagerly digest it!
So in regards to Delta and the SAS (British and Australian) it sounds like a Troop size of 16 includes the four-man HQ section as well? It's not 16 men plus the four-man HQ? I know the SEAL's also use a 16-man structure as well. It seems like a common number to use and I definitely want to structure my Joes that way. |
07-14-2015, 09:54 PM | #19636 |
disgruntled goat
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NYS- Finger Lakes
Posts: 2,110
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Description of his job on the Joe team seems to most closely match that of a Forward Observer which would make him Army or Marines. I could see Air Force too though.
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07-14-2015, 10:00 PM | #19637 |
Range Viper
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Joeverse
Posts: 10,474
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Anyone else catch the skull buster file card.
He is a cannibal |
07-14-2015, 10:24 PM | #19638 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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Quote:
Man I never read the convention file card. My favorite Cobra too. He even has a name. Albert Packer from Donner Pass California.
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Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
07-14-2015, 10:42 PM | #19639 |
Range Viper
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Joeverse
Posts: 10,474
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07-14-2015, 11:11 PM | #19640 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
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Quote:
A lot of great information in here! I just got home from work so will eagerly digest it!
So in regards to Delta and the SAS (British and Australian) it sounds like a Troop size of 16 includes the four-man HQ section as well? It's not 16 men plus the four-man HQ? I know the SEAL's also use a 16-man structure as well. It seems like a common number to use and I definitely want to structure my Joes that way. AFAIK SEAL platoons are now 18-20, after 9/11 they started adding x 2 EOD Technicians from the Naval Expeditionary Warfare Community, and USAF CCTs or PJ's seem to be tasked to a SEAL platoon habitually too. |
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