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07-13-2015, 12:14 PM | #19621 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,235
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Nice setup, John. I'm revising my Delta team to resemble yours.
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07-13-2015, 06:49 PM | #19622 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: over here
Posts: 2,092
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Quote:
Here's my HQ and support sections. What I am trying to accomplish is have the majority of the Joes that were made into figures be the actual operators assigned to a Sabre Squadron. I am going with a more realistic, modern approach so women will be in support sections. I figure a lot of no-name characters will flesh out the rest of the support sections as I do not want to focus too much on those. Not sure on the actual size of the 22nd though. HQ Joe Colton (Commanding Officer) ??? (Executive Officer) Sgt Savage (Command Sergeant Major) Training Wing Sgt Slaughter The Fridge (not the actual football player, just a guy who bears an uncanny resemblance to The Fridge) Sgt Stone (ROC) Medical Doc (Chief Surgeon) Motorpool Cover Girl Research and Development Gears G.I.Jane Hi-Tech Computer Technology (may forgo this and make these four Troopers instead) Mainframe Sgt Hacker Hard Drive KickStart May or may not have an Aviation Platoon... Wild Bill Lift-Ticket Windmill Updraft Major Altitude May or may not have a UAV section.... Ace Slip-Stream Dogfight Maverick Skystriker Freestyle Tomahawk Ghostrider Thanks! I have been using an SAS-style organization before I discovered this thread and Zulu's work. It has helped me a lot in regards to placing some of my Joes. As you can see I still have many others that need placing and what skills they possess (signals, linguist, demolitions, or medic). |
07-14-2015, 05:31 AM | #19623 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
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I remember someone asking about Troop structure in relation to the SAS and Delta. I wanted to respond to the actual quote but for the life of me, can't find it. Was it you John?. Sorry, been a long S#itty day. Anyway...
The SAS Troop HQ is usually the Troop Commander, Troop Sergeant (Staff Sgt) and a Troop Communicator. Before 9/11, it was rare for the Troop Commander to actually lead patrols. This is in stark contrast to the Australian SASR where Troop Commanders are trained specifically as Patrol Leaders. Before 9/11 Delta Troop HQ was; a Troop Commander (Major or Senior Capt), a Troop Sergeant (SGM), a Troop Medic and a Master Breacher or Sniper (billet rarely filled) and an attachment of a USAF CCT and a PJ. After 9/11, I believe that Breachers were removed to form part of the Combat Support Squadron (Breachers, Military Working Dogs, EOD, etc). In Dalton Fury's book, the Troop HQ was the Troop Commander, Troop Sergeant (SGM), Troop Communicator and a Troop Medic with an attached USAF CCT or two. According to Pete Blaber's book 'The Men, the mission and Me' one of the doctrinal differences between Delta and DEVGRU is that DEVGRU uses their attached USAF CCT's as primary communicators whereas Delta uses them as back up and are primarily there for air support. Blaber also seems pretty unimpressed with SEALs as well. In terms of patrols, there's a difference as well, SAS seem to use the 4 man patrol model, Delta uses 6 (in Assault Troops) and 4 (x2 Sniper Pairs in Recce / Recon Troops) The SASR uses 5 man patrols; Patrol Commander (a Cpl), a Combat Medic, Demolitions Specialist and a Marksman. A signaler is the 5th man. The Signaler is usually from the 152 Signals Squadron. I can give a complete rundown on the SASR organization if anyone is interested ? Last edited by Tyroc; 07-14-2015 at 05:34 AM.. |
07-14-2015, 05:58 AM | #19624 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
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Btw guys, what are your thoughts on Wolf Squad?
I'm going to use them as the Joes High Value/ Combat Tracking element. Edit - Nevermind, I just saw the other thread |
07-14-2015, 07:24 AM | #19625 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: over here
Posts: 2,092
|
Quote:
I remember someone asking about Troop structure in relation to the SAS and Delta. I wanted to respond to the actual quote but for the life of me, can't find it. Was it you John?. Sorry, been a long S#itty day. Anyway...
The SAS Troop HQ is usually the Troop Commander, Troop Sergeant (Staff Sgt) and a Troop Communicator. Before 9/11, it was rare for the Troop Commander to actually lead patrols. This is in stark contrast to the Australian SASR where Troop Commanders are trained specifically as Patrol Leaders. Before 9/11 Delta Troop HQ was; a Troop Commander (Major or Senior Capt), a Troop Sergeant (SGM), a Troop Medic and a Master Breacher or Sniper (billet rarely filled) and an attachment of a USAF CCT and a PJ. After 9/11, I believe that Breachers were removed to form part of the Combat Support Squadron (Breachers, Military Working Dogs, EOD, etc). In Dalton Fury's book, the Troop HQ was the Troop Commander, Troop Sergeant (SGM), Troop Communicator and a Troop Medic with an attached USAF CCT or two. According to Pete Blaber's book 'The Men, the mission and Me' one of the doctrinal differences between Delta and DEVGRU is that DEVGRU uses their attached USAF CCT's as primary communicators whereas Delta uses them as back up and are primarily there for air support. Blaber also seems pretty unimpressed with SEALs as well. In terms of patrols, there's a difference as well, SAS seem to use the 4 man patrol model, Delta uses 6 (in Assault Troops) and 4 (x2 Sniper Pairs in Recce / Recon Troops) The SASR uses 5 man patrols; Patrol Commander (a Cpl), a Combat Medic, Demolitions Specialist and a Marksman. A signaler is the 5th man. The Signaler is usually from the 152 Signals Squadron. I can give a complete rundown on the SASR organization if anyone is interested ? SAS - Organisation The way they make it sound is that a Troop Commander and a Troop Sergeant are part of the 16-man Troop and each lead a four-man Patrol. It sounds like that is not the case though? I knew Delta did things a little different (3 Troops per Squadron instead of 4). They also separate their assaulters into 2 Troops and recon into 1 Troop, but I did not know they used 6 or 4 man Troops depending on if they were in an Assault or Recon Troop. It seems all the SAS Troops do both assault and recon if I am not mistaken? I would definitely be interested in hearing about the Australian SAS as well as more British SAS and Delta. I can't seem to get enough info on their structure it seems from the sources I have read. Lol Is that a customs thread you have? I will have to check it out. |
07-14-2015, 07:38 AM | #19626 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
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That's a great site, I've been following it for awhile.
The other thread is 'Wolf Squad; Yay or Nay?' http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-jo...ml#post4853695 |
07-14-2015, 07:58 AM | #19627 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
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SASR structure Pt 1
Special Air Service Command (Commanded by a Brigadier General) The highest level of the SAS, contains all the highest admin, ceremonial and cultural functions. Similar to the US Special Forces Command. Pre 9/11, the UK SAS had a similar role but its since morphed. The Diector SAS was expanded into Director Special Forces and the billet was bumped up to Major General. Under that is the SAS Regiment proper; SAS Regimental HQ - commanded by a Colonel. Similar in organization to a Ranger Regiment HQ Prior to 9/11, the SASR was a battalion size unit but has been steadily expanding to a true regiment size under the 2030 Restructuring of Australian forces. Quick Note; Squadrons and troops are different between the US and the Commonwealth. US Squadrons are typically Battalion sized units and Troops are company sized. Conversely, Commonwealth squadrons are company sized and troops are platoon sized formations. When Beckwith created Delta, he used the SAS model right down to squadron and troop size. The other Special Mission units followed this philosophy as far as I can tell. Delta has since expanded to a Group size (like a Special Forces Group) formation. Note the JSOC diagram https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_...ns_Command.png Delta has the three straight lines on top of the box, indicating its size as a Group / Regiment whereas the other SMU's have two indicating that they're battalion sized units |
07-14-2015, 08:11 AM | #19628 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
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SAS Structure Pt 2
SAS Regiment HQ (RHQ/SASR) - Commanded by a Colonel and has a typical Regiment HQ structure SAS Base Squadron - Contains the HQ Company and specialized Wings like the Counter Revolutionary Warfare Wing, Ops Research, Medical, Intelligence etc. SAS Sabre Squadrons - There are 3 (actually 5 but the fourth and fifth are called something else which I'll get to) Sabre Squadrons; 1 SAS, 2 SAS, 3 SAS. Each Sabre Squadron has a HQ Troop, 4 SAS Troops and a Signals Troop SAS Clandestine Action Squadron - also known as 4 SAS, this element works exclusively with the Australian Secret Intelligence Service (ASIS) which is similar to the CIA. Only has 2 Troops instead of 4. SAS Reserve Squadron - aka 5 SAS operates similarly to the UK SAS's L Detachment. Special Reconnaissance Squadron (1 SRS) - Specializes in HUMINT and SIGINT, including female Intelligence specialists so they can infiltrate as Husband and wife teams 152 Signal Squadron - HQ Troop, then a Company sized troop to each of the Sabre Squadrons. SAS Operational Support Squadron - the training, selection and assessment element SAS Logistic Support Squadron (SAS-LSS) - Supply, Distribution, Maintenance, Contracting etc. |
07-14-2015, 08:36 AM | #19629 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,235
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So does Delta's sniper/recon troop have the same number of men and is it led by an officer as well? I always imagined it might be organized similar to a sniper section led by a senior NCO.
It's curious that they would separate breachers from the main assault troop. Almost all CQC or VBSS or SWAT teams have organic breachers since knocking in doors is what they do everyday. I would assume that all Delta assault troops have a lead breacher and that all assaulters are cross trained to do the job if necessary. So does Blaber organize the troop as seen below? Assault Troop: Commander (O3-4) Sergeant Major (E9) Communicator (E?) Medic (E?) Assaulter x 12 (including 2 team leaders) This structure would make sense since it provides an HQ with two 6-man assault teams, a common stack for CQC. But it also provides four 4-man assault teams, two led by the CO and SGM and two by team leaders, which allows faster room takedowns. In Operation Gothic Serpent, each of the four MH-6s had a 4-man assault team, one of which landed on the roof of the target building. Two Blackhawks roped in another 30 operators. The rest of the Blackhawks carried the Ranger blocking platoon and the STT for CSAR. The Delta snipers were left on the Blackhawks for support from the air, mostly in teams of three. There were at least 3, maybe 4 teams, so that would make up the sniper troop. A sniper troop of at least 12 men would be flexible: allowing either six 2-man sniper elements, three 4-man recon teams, or four larger 3-man sniper teams. Last edited by Tanksmasher; 07-14-2015 at 08:40 AM.. |
07-14-2015, 12:16 PM | #19630 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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Not to sidetrack, but how will everyone be deploying Sightline? The gun looks like Sniper. But I suppose as anti-aircraft support he would be army and be painting targets, but he seems more Air Force to me.
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