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04-12-2015, 05:17 PM | #19361 |
keeper of times past
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Joplin/Neosho, Mo
Posts: 409
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Why does hasbro not utilize Hama while they can? The arah comic and toys need to join forces.
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IDW's continuation of Marvel and Hama's classic continuity continues AND is utilizing more modern toys. It outsells Transformers but needs more readers and letter hacks. [email protected] re:postbox:the pit. this canon is more than a fad, let's proove it. |
04-13-2015, 01:21 PM | #19362 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,235
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Yes, I was hoping for pics of file cards. Im really loving the desert Chuckles. I think he'd make a great Mangler.
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04-13-2015, 09:32 PM | #19363 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Recent reflections on Flint's beret...
SO, those of you who have been with this thread for a long time will obviously remember our long, lengthy, and frequent discussions (and frustrations) with the beret colors of G.I. Joe. For me, Stalker's green beret and Flint's black beret are the most frustrating, probably because they are both two of my favorite characters, and they were the first Joes with berets. It also just seems like such a simple detail to get wrong... why not just get it right? So, I watch a few different YouTube channels. Among them is Larry Vicker's channel where he reviews guns and tactical gear. Larry is a retired U.S. Army Master Sergeant, and he spent 15 years in Delta Force; he served in the late 80's-the 90-'s. In a recent video, we saw some pictures from his career, including a few in his Class-A's from his time in Delta. Larry came to Delta from Special Forces. He's a qualified Green Beret; his SF tab is visible in many of the photos. What's interesting is his beret: it was black with a red flash. Now, this threw me for a loop. In every other unit in USASOC, if a soldier is SF-qualified, that soldier is authorized to wear his green beret. If he has an SF Tab, his hat is green. That isn't always the case in the rest of the Army, but in U.S. Army Special Operations Command, that's the way in works. It was that way when I was in, and it was that way when I was growing up. I know because I was an Army brat, and I paid attention and asked alot of questions. However, I'll fully admit I don't know everything about Delta. It's secretive, and you RARELY see those guys in a regular uniform beyond their BDU's/ACU's, or PT's. I've only ever seen them in PT's as they blew by me, and I only saw about 6 of them. Most of the time they wear civilian clothing with long hair and beards. So seeing the black beret - with the SF Tab - got me thinking. I know that Delta isn't made up of all SF-qualified soldiers. They come from SF, but also the Rangers, and the Airborne Divisions, and elsewhere. It's likely that they wouldn't want the guys with SF-Tabs to be seen as different or more elite than the other guys in the Unit, because they all go through the 6-month Special Operators Course after selection, and they train to the same standard... So, they probably chose the Black beret with red flash as the standard for every member of the Unit when wearing dress uniform for the sake of unit cohesion, and to match the USASOC shoulder patch, which is red and black. Obviously, the Rangers were wearing black berets at that time, but the flashes (patches on the berets) were very different, and soldiers would have immeadiately understood that the Delta berets were NOT Ranger berets. Soldiers read beret flashes the same way that they read shoulder patches... it's just the language they speak. Bottomline: I'm asserting that Flint was not just SF-qualified, but that he came to the Joe Team from Delta Force. I think this makes sense for several other reasons, if anyone is interested in discussing that, but mainly I think it is the best explanation for the "flight school" issue/question that consistantly comes up. Delta sends their guys to learn to fly (small stuff) all the time. Anyway, that's my assertion. Flint's from Delta. He's a D-Boy. Responses? Comments? Thoughts? Arguments?
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
04-13-2015, 09:37 PM | #19364 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Quote:
I also really like that SDCC set with Chuckles and Night Fox as a team... the two Covert Action guys in an awesome jeep? Yes, please. Now all we need is Agent Faces showing up in Scuba gear, and that Intel team is all set. Wait, Agent Faces in Scuba Gear? Ah, CRAP!!! Now I've got to call Marine Deadpool and get busy on that. That idea is TOO good to pass up.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? Last edited by oliverbox; 04-13-2015 at 10:13 PM.. |
04-13-2015, 10:02 PM | #19365 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Quote:
That being said, I think all that time, effort, and money has earned me the right to an opinion, and a rather informed/well-earned opinion. Here's the truth as I see it: Larry Hama isn't a god. He's had real moments of brilliance, and he's had LONG runs of excellent story telling. But there have also been some dark marks on his record, and there were monthes at a time when he was really just phoneing it in, or was on a weird (ninja) tanget. Now, the argument could certainly be made that in the initial 155 issues, that he was too constrained/obligated to include Hasbro's new products... to push new characters, to push new vehicles - all to sell more toys. And it's easy to see how that might stiffle the creative process and interfere with a continuity of storytelling. But it was never an insurmountable challenge, and sometimes it seems like he was honestly mad at Hasbro. He admits that he's never planned out any longterm storylines. Well, that's probably a mistake. If he had taken a little time to think through the sub-team storylines, they could have been really cool. How he handled Tiger Force, Eco-Warriors, the D.E.F.... it was terrible, and it didn't have to be. With a little planning and effort, those could have been some really cool storylines. And now let's talk about the elephant in the room of Larry's shortcoming as a storyteller: Ninjas. I mean, serisously, what the heck? It's WAY too much ninja crap, and the ninjas are WAY too out of proportion when it comes to abilities. There are issues when it doesn't even make sense for there to be a G.I. Joe team... just send in Snake-Eyes. And after Storm Shadow joined the Joes, what was the point? The end of the 155-issue run was, for the most part, abysmal. And Larry doesn't really deny this issue with the ninjas. He's said in interviews that he basically sees the whole story as The Story of Snake-Eyes. At times it felt like American Ninja. There are great characters that were never developed, because he never even bothered to develop a legitimate chain-of-command for the Joe Team. He complains that he hated Duke because Hasbro forced him to use Duke, and Hama preferred Stalker. If he had simply planned and used a chain-of-command, there was pleny of room for both... and for Flint, and for Falcon, and even for Grid-Iron, Claymore, and all the other "leader" characters. In a big way, this thread has been about sorting out the mess Mr. Hama left of the continuity. I'm not saying that it all fits together neatly, but we've made a real effort an we've done a pretty good job. Which brings me to Hasbro... I firmly believe that there are at least 3 main Joe continuities: The Hamaverse of the Comics, the Cartoon from the 80's, and the actual toy line from Hasbro. Obviously there is a lot of overlap, but studied independently there are some very big differences. The most apparent differences are between the cartoon and the comicbook. However, the toyline tried to blend elements of both, while asserting it's own continuity. Example: G.I. Joe Leadership Hasbro intended Hawk to be the leader. But then they start adding characters with different ranks, as if they are intentionally trying to fill the ranks of a chain-of-command. Duke doesn't replace Hawk; he works for him. Duke is the First Sgt. That's not a replacement for Stalker, either. Stalker was an E-5, like a fire team leader. Then Flint shows up. He's not a replacement for Duke. He's a Warrant Officer. His job is completely different. He's similar to Duke is some ways - and the cartoon used them erroneously as interchangable - but why wouldn't Hasbro just give them the same rank if they were the same? Falcon comes along, again similar qualifications to Duke and Flint, but he's a young officer - like a Platoon Leader or a SF Team XO, at that time. Claymore and Grid-Iron are also similarly qualified, but different with different specialties. If we look at the ranks closely, Hasbro's own continuity and chain-of-command makes the most sense of the three. It's not perfect - they were just selling toys to children, after all - but it's well planned out and makes a lot of sense.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? Last edited by oliverbox; 04-13-2015 at 11:08 PM.. |
04-13-2015, 10:03 PM | #19366 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Really? Was it his personality? ;)
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
04-13-2015, 10:10 PM | #19367 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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I like the idea of some Coasties on the Joe Team. Remember a few years back with the Navy started letting some Coast Guard officers go to BUDS? I thought that was a cool idea... the idea of SEALs that could be deployed domestically and arrest people could be really cool. Perhaps a counterpart to the FBI's HRT, which is basically a domestic version of Delta. The Coast Guard could develop a "DEVGRU" type of unit.
Anyway, I figured Cutter stayed pretty busy... he was the only Joe permitted to arrest non-military personnel off post, well, maybe Bullet-Proof, Sure-Fire, and possibly Bull Horn, but you see my point. Having that LEO capability could be a really cool asset for the Joes, expecially if their fighting Cobra on U.S. soil. Seriously, if the Joes were fighting in Springfield, they'd either have to kill all the Cobras or coordinate with the FBI. THey might need those stinking badges after all. ;)
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
04-13-2015, 10:15 PM | #19368 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Exellent Points. I think of Hawk as a 2 or 3 star. Colton outranking him has never been an issue for me. Colton obviously has respect, but he's retired from active duty, and in the comic he's always been like an SIS/SES 5 or 6... afforded the respect of a General, but not the command authority.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
04-13-2015, 11:14 PM | #19369 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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I like the Flint Delta Connection. It does help explain the oddities of his training.
I like to imagine that Hawk came fron a Delta Background. He knew Stalker back in the day and Duke was just given to him, but Lowlight and Mercer were from his Delta company. (i mean v2 Mercer who i treat as a separate character who went undercover and everyone mistakes for V1 Mercer. Because they look alike since they are brothers.) Flint fits in just right with these guys. Any other potential Delta Guys?
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Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
04-14-2015, 01:21 AM | #19370 |
G.I.Joe medic
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Litchfield, ME
Posts: 3,169
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The more I think about it, I have to agree with Oliver about Flint being from Delta. Not just because of the beret and piloting skills, but also the part about him planning and leading hostage rescue missions that were classified. Oliver is also right about Hama: He can be a great story teller at times,but he's not a god. As far as the Coast Guard is concerned, I know they are often maligned by some, but they do some of the things that the regular Navy has to do in war on a daily basis -such as boarding hostile vessels. IIRC, they have some"elite" teams that specialize in taking out"go fast" boats from helicopters using modified M-240s and M82s.
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