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03-05-2015, 11:45 PM | #19251 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,224
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The Infantry Weapons Officer (0306 MOS) or Gunner, I believe, is the chief weapon specialist in a marine unit whereas a Range Officer (0930) is the head guy in charge of live-fire training for range weapons. I don't know if they address ROs as Gunner as well.
I wasn't sure where to place Sgt Stone, but since his second figure has a red beret and he's considered a "special operations" instructor, I made him a door gunner/chief for the Joe's version of SOAR. Last edited by Tanksmasher; 03-05-2015 at 11:55 PM.. |
03-06-2015, 02:44 AM | #19252 |
Commando
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Britain
Posts: 3,813
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Uh, yeah, they do. They're ridiculously understaffed with pilots. Lift Ticket, Updraft, Wild Bill and Major Altitude is enough for two helicopters. Despite what the Joes comics show, they almost never fly a combat helicoper single-pilot in real life. Especially not attack birds like the Dragonfly or the Apache. You need two guys to be able to watch the target and watch for threats/fly the copter.
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03-06-2015, 09:44 AM | #19253 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
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Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
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I'm not going to argue against that. You forgot Windmill. I was really just referring to the storylines. Unfortunately the Helicopter pilots fill more or less a support role so its hard to tell much of a story from any of there perspectives for too long. Although saying that out loud that would make an awesome story. Maybe a rescue mission for a downed pilot?
Helicopters as toys are the best. Probably my favorite of all military toys. Whenever Blackhawk Down comes on i will watch it in its entirety no matter what time it is. They should sell the Tomahawk with Two pilots and two crew. I imagine helicopters fly out with two escorts. So a minimum 6-8 pilots per mission? I don't know how many helicopters were present during the mission that killed bin Laden? At least two Blackhawks. Not sure if they flew with escorts.
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Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. Last edited by Loose Cannon; 03-06-2015 at 09:47 AM.. |
03-06-2015, 10:21 AM | #19254 |
Hog Driver
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Location: Georgia
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Two escorts is usually the norm, sometimes more. In Mogadishu they used four AH-6 for the escort/attack role, two in the lead, two in the rear. There were 12 more choppers in that lift: 4 x MH-6 Litttle Birds with the initial Delta assault teams, 2 x MH-60s with more Delta assaulters and 4 x MH-60s with Rangers, 1 x MH-60 for the CSAR team and 1 for C2 command ship. Plus there was one or two Kiowas nearby for surveillance. So 16+ choppers in all. Quite a lift element for two platoons of Rangers, several assault teams, snipers, and a Special Tactics Team.
Last edited by Tanksmasher; 03-06-2015 at 10:31 AM.. |
03-06-2015, 10:30 AM | #19255 |
Hog Driver
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Location: Georgia
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For the Bin Laden raid there were 6 reported helicopters, 2 Stealth Hawks and the rest were Chinooks carrying QRF and reinforcements. Doesn't look like they had escorts per se but there were fixed-wing fighters standing by.
Death of Osama bin Laden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia |
03-06-2015, 03:24 PM | #19256 |
Commando
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Britain
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In Helmand, British Army attack helicopter protocol was a flight of 2 Apaches for a given mission usually. The IRT/HRF* was two Chinooks and 2 Apache escorts. The protocols called for Apaches to operate as pairs, one to watch the other, same as fighter jets with a wingman.
*Incident Response Team/Helmand Reaction Force. The IRT/HRF was basically the QRF for casevac flights, but the IRT were also sometimes used for scrambles to support units under fire without the Chinooks. Some missions called for more than two Apaches at a time, however. (information from Apache and Hellfire by WO1 Ed Macy Army Air Corps, British Army) |
03-06-2015, 04:24 PM | #19257 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,018
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It's not just helos - a lot of CSAR is done with fixed wing escort like A-10 or Harrier for close air support, as well as EW aircraft to jam air defences or attack them with HARM. This real-life tale (starts a third of the way down the article) would make the gist of a good story from both ground and air perspectives. The adjectives are over the top, but the essence is all there.
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/a-1...d-b78367f4fd0e One point though (if the idea is to make Joe realistic) is that usually aviation support comes from a separate unit (whether 160th/ UKSF Aviation/427 or others). Point being that air crew don't necessarily have to be named characters - they just need to be in the right seats. On the other hand, I remember reading some pulp book years ago that suggested Delta had its own small integral aviation squadron. Any idea if there's any truth to that? Finally, the same argument about air crews could be made about vehicles. Most tanks require a crew of four to operate. One early Joe comic got around that problem by sticking Clutch and Breaker and someone else in a MOBAT with Steeler, and one of the newer comics filled an M1 with 4 Joes from various armoured vehicles. But the toys came with, at best, 1 driver. Again, this could possibly be resolved with sticking green shirts in a few of the empty seats. |
03-06-2015, 04:39 PM | #19258 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
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We could also add Blades, Red-Zone and Glenda (Scarlett). I would add Matt Trakker since he comes with a helicopter backpack. (He's a WO-5 in my verse) So that's 9 helicopter pilots.
Joe style mission: TOMAHAWK - LiftTicket and Major Altitude Night Attack Chopper - Wild-Bill and Red-Zone The other 5 can fly a combination of available helicppters or Skyhawks.
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Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
03-06-2015, 06:54 PM | #19259 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
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Quote:
It's not just helos - a lot of CSAR is done with fixed wing escort like A-10 or Harrier for close air support, as well as EW aircraft to jam air defences or attack them with HARM. This real-life tale (starts a third of the way down the article) would make the gist of a good story from both ground and air perspectives. The adjectives are over the top, but the essence is all there.
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/a-1...d-b78367f4fd0e One point though (if the idea is to make Joe realistic) is that usually aviation support comes from a separate unit (whether 160th/ UKSF Aviation/427 or others). Point being that air crew don't necessarily have to be named characters - they just need to be in the right seats. On the other hand, I remember reading some pulp book years ago that suggested Delta had its own small integral aviation squadron. Any idea if there's any truth to that? Finally, the same argument about air crews could be made about vehicles. Most tanks require a crew of four to operate. One early Joe comic got around that problem by sticking Clutch and Breaker and someone else in a MOBAT with Steeler, and one of the newer comics filled an M1 with 4 Joes from various armoured vehicles. But the toys came with, at best, 1 driver. Again, this could possibly be resolved with sticking green shirts in a few of the empty seats. As far as crewing the various Joe tanks and Aircraft I like to think all the Joe vehicles were designed or modified to operate with fewer crew. I remember reading someone's take on Joe futuristic vehicles and government funding and how it would tie into actual legislature from the eighties. Needless to say there would only be one or two of every vehicle in the arsenal as all are experimental And would be given free or charge to the Joes.
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03-07-2015, 03:03 AM | #19260 |
Commando
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Location: Britain
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the true story of the incident at Jugroom Fort is told in Apache. Ed Macy was one of the Apache pilots that executed the rescue mission. and it was the Apache crew that came up with the idea to strap guys on to the helos to rescue L/Cpl Ford.
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