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03-05-2013, 10:53 PM | #18501 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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Quote:
I guess we could argue that all day (and you're probablly like me and don't have any desire to argue at all). As a kid I rarely had the chance to see the cartoon but had a subscription to the comic. I didn't even know then that Hama wrote the filecards, but to me and my cousin the comic was the only continuity. Still is in my book, I'm reading the ongoing hama continuation.
G.I. Joe was the ultimate imagine line. The filecards (or the comics or the cartoons) gave you a starting point and from there the sky was the limit. Star Wars, and other toys, had a more structured mythos/continuity, so you weren't as free to do what you wanted. But Joe had all these different elements in it, from ninjas to clones to weather dominators to even ghosts. There was nothing that you couldn't make work in G.I. Joe. Loose Cannon has managed to integrate the Clone Troopers.
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03-06-2013, 12:52 AM | #18502 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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That's true. I love trying to come up ways to mix in all the toy lines.
Still to me I always accept the Marvel run plus the file cards as canon. I had no problem continuing with the DDP storylines as they followed the same canon for established characters and deaths. The new IDW main title is just harder to follow plus there are no filecards. To me there is no canon there. They knock off characters left and right and kill previously named characters where I don't know who is who. It sort of started out ok with Breaker and RocknRoll but Heavy Duty was just too screwed up. There is a serious lack of character development for the more peripheral Joes so they add nothing to any storyline. I don't always love the IDW marvel continuation storyline, but its still Larry and the characters have not changed so we know he knows who they are. So I'm inclined to add to established canon from here but they haven't added much. The Cartoons in no way figure into my verse other than they are the voices I imagine the Joes talk with. Sometimes. I just don't except anything from the cartoons as canon.
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Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
03-06-2013, 03:21 AM | #18503 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
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The only thing from the cartoon I accept as cannon is the chain of command ;) (joking)
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03-07-2013, 02:10 PM | #18504 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 3,028
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The cartoons were simply a vehicle to help sell the toys. Hasbro wasn't worried about any kind of continuity as far as the toys go. That's why in the first G.I. Joe cartoon series Hawk is no where in the series. Hasbro had already discontinued selling the M.M.S. w/ Hawk. Duke was a new toy, and it was established on his file card that he was in some sort of leadership. So, that's why Duke is the leader in the first cartoon series.
By the time the second series came out, Hasbro was no longer selling Duke or Scarlett, and they had just introduced Flint and Lady Jaye. So, whereas Duke and Scarlett are in the second series they seem to take a back seat to Flint and Lady Jaye. Then we get to the time of G.I. Joe the movie and Hasbro releases a new version of now Gen. Hawk. To the comic fans this is no problem because Hawk has always been the leader of the Joes, but to the cartoon, he is a totally new character. As a kid, the comic and cartoon were totally different "universes." I quit watching the cartoon after the let down of the 87 movie, and I quit reading the comic probably in 88. As an adult, just getting back into collecting; I don't live close enough to a comic shop to have kept up with the Devil's Due comic. I think I did read one series from some comic company where Duke was actually a Cobra spy and was killed at the end of the series. I would love to read Hama's continuation of the Marvel story, but I think now that it's 2013 that story line should be put to rest unless they are actually introducing new characters. I mean Snake-Eyes, Stalker, and Storm Shadow were in 'Nam, and I think it's implied on Duke's file card that he was in 'Nam. It seems like Hama's story would be about the "old guys" in a new war kind of thing. I have picked up the new IDW comic (without having read the previous IDW series). Not sure if this is a total reboot, but I think I would like to see a total reboot of the franchise with up to date backgrounds. You know Duke served in Desert Storm or something like that. Looking back over some old Marvel images, something I forgot; and this is in context with the title of this thread; but at Gen. Flagg's funeral Snake Eyes is wearing a green beret. So, I'm guessing both Stalker and Snake Eyes (and possibly Storm Shadow) were Green Beret in 'Nam? Jason |
03-07-2013, 02:16 PM | #18505 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 3,028
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One thing I've always wondered is exactly which characters replaced other characters? If I understand correctly Grunt was the only character in the comic to actually leave the Joes, but I'm talking about the toy line.
For example, it was obvious to me that Footloose replaced Grunt, both were Infantry. I always thought that Dial-Tone replaced Breaker, both were communications. But did Leatherneck replace Gung-Ho? Or did Slipstream replace Ace? Did Roadblock replace Rock-n-Roll? Did Liftticket replace Wild Bill? I think there was actually a scene in one of the Marvel Comics with Ripcord and Lady Jaye indicating that they were Scarlett and somebody else's "replacements." So were these toys (say Roadblock) intended to be replacements of older characters (like Rock-n-Roll) or just "added" characters? By the way, I think the G.I. Joe brand went off the deep end after Cobra-la and all the neon colored weapons and such. Jason |
03-07-2013, 02:31 PM | #18506 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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Quote:
One thing I've always wondered is exactly which characters replaced other characters? If I understand correctly Grunt was the only character in the comic to actually leave the Joes, but I'm talking about the toy line.
For example, it was obvious to me that Footloose replaced Grunt, both were Infantry. I always thought that Dial-Tone replaced Breaker, both were communications. But did Leatherneck replace Gung-Ho? Or did Slipstream replace Ace? Did Roadblock replace Rock-n-Roll? Did Liftticket replace Wild Bill? I think there was actually a scene in one of the Marvel Comics with Ripcord and Lady Jaye indicating that they were Scarlett and somebody else's "replacements." So were these toys (say Roadblock) intended to be replacements of older characters (like Rock-n-Roll) or just "added" characters? By the way, I think the G.I. Joe brand went off the deep end after Cobra-la and all the neon colored weapons and such. n Oh there is no doubting that. Pretty much ruined it for everyone. As far as the replacement Joes I remeber wanting to go through that exercise. Some are totally obvious. I'm not sure what the intent was but nearly all the figures get replacements by year 5. Issue 32 or something. When Lady Jaye and Ripcord replace Scarlett and Grunt and all Joes except Snake-Eyes get administrative promotions leads me to believe Hama had this in mind. Whether from Hasbro pressure or from his own developmental ideas I can't say.
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Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. Last edited by Loose Cannon; 03-07-2013 at 02:45 PM.. |
03-07-2013, 02:41 PM | #18507 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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Grunt - Footloose
Stalker - Beachhead Rock 'n ' Roll - Roadblock Zap - Bazooka Steeler - Heavy Metal Scarlett - Lady Jaye Clutch - Crankcase Flash - Sci Fi Hawk - Duke and then himself Breaker - Dialtone Short - Fuse. -Thunder? Grand -Slam. -CrossCountry?
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Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
03-07-2013, 02:56 PM | #18508 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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For Shits an giggles (9 New from 1983)
Ace - Slipstream WildBill- Lift Ticket Doc - Lifeline Torpedo- Wet-Suit Gung-Ho- Leatherneck Snow-Job - Iceberg Airborne? -(Sticking with 86 here---Mainframe is also from Arizona and was Airborne Infantry before the Marines) Ripcord and Spirit are almost a split of his character into two but is too soon Tripwire-?? (Bazooka is also EOD, and Airtight seems like a somewhat interchangeable character, all klutzy or quirky but 1985 releases my theory is shot! Tunnel Rat is the next Bomb Disposal guy in 87') Cover-Girl well there is no replacing her. Maybe Fast Draw? or Knockdown from BF2000?
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Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
03-07-2013, 04:01 PM | #18509 |
Commando
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Britain
Posts: 3,827
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i never thought that the earlier characters were being replaced by later ones. i always assumed there was more than one Joe to do everything. in fact, as a kid, it annoyed the crap out of me when Ace was the Battlecopter pilot and later Ghost Striker pilot. I thought they should've used new characters.
this may, of course, stem from the fact that in the UK we got some characters and not others and all mixed up and i missed most of the 1985 series over here (which were swivel-arm '82 characters alongside '83 and '84 ones.) and that when Marvel UK were printing the US comics, it meant we got introduced to characters from all across the years. UK-originated stories were starring Flint, Footloose, Jaye et al from the UK 1987 series and then they were running US stories with the likes of Torpedo, Mutt, Tripwire, Roadblock and Cutter in, who might've had figures released in the '85 series or not and might then get a later figure released. so tome, the AF/Joe team was constantly introducing new people who might or might not get a figure at the time i'm reading the comics with them in. |
03-07-2013, 04:21 PM | #18510 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 3,028
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Quote:
Jason |
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