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02-28-2013, 11:54 PM | #18471 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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Quote:
Ripcord is an odd character. I was always under the impression that Civil Air Patrol members usually ended up in the Air Force. I'm wondering if Larry even knew about PJs and CCTs, when Ripcord's filecard was written. The weird thing about the Army is that they run the main Military Freefall School, but the Green Berets don't require all their members to be HALO trained. Delta Force may be the only unit in the Army that has all its members HALO trained and I'm guessing some of them get trained by the unit. The Navy and Marine Corp both started their own jump schools to be able process all the SEALs and MARSOC guys.
Sometimes the original ARAH literature reminds me of that line from the movie Stripes: "Our newest soldiers with our newest equipment". You have a bunch of E-4s and E-5s with a 2nd LT and a Colonel. Did Steeler even get a deployment in before joining the Joes? My Dad graduated Signals School as an Spc-4 and went to OCS before he got sent on his deployment to Vietnam. Of course trying to make a toy line fit the real military has left with all of these debates on character qualifications. We expect them to be more experienced than their filecards sometimes indicate. Here's link to a thread on Socnet that discusses 18X retention. 18X Program - SOCNET: The Special Operations Community Network
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Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. Last edited by Loose Cannon; 02-28-2013 at 11:57 PM.. |
02-28-2013, 11:59 PM | #18472 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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So still what about HALO school? Not a requirement for anyone in particular but who gets to go besides SOF personnel?
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Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
03-01-2013, 12:45 AM | #18473 |
I.O. SpecOps
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In a secret underground bunker.
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Quote:
Saw this on a PJ site. "Special operations forces commissioned officers, warrant officers, or enlisted personnel of the Active or Reserve components who are assigned to, or who are on orders for assignment to, a military free-fall coded position or selected DOD personnel or allied personnel who are qualified military parachutists. Effective 1 October 1995, Army students reporting to military free-fall training must have a memorandum confirming assignment to a military free-fall coded position at inprocessing. Personnel reporting without the required memorandum will not be entered into training. Must have passed the high-altitude, low-opening (HALO) physical examination IAW AR 40-501, Chapter 5, paragraph 8, and must report with complete medical records, including original HALO examination, on day of inprocessing. School must be completed within two years of the date on the physical. Must also report with a Physiological Training Record, High-Altitude Parachutist Initial (HAP INT). This record is verified on AF Form 1274 (Chamber Card) and AF Form 702 (Individual Physiological Training Record). Must have nine months remaining in service upon graduation. " Looks like it's only SOF in MFF positions. So being a Green Beret or Ranger isn't good enough you have to be on a HALO team. Of course, if the Joes are a Tier 1 unit all field operators( foot mobile) would be eligible. People like Sparks, Steeler, Firewall would probably be inserted using a tandem jump as needed.
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03-01-2013, 05:35 AM | #18474 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
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So what are the other MFF teams then? I know Green Berets have Battalions or ODAs in detachments broken down by perspective assignments. One for each of the 6 ODA teams.
So Military Freefall (HALO), combat diving, mountain warfare, maritime operations, or urban operations. Obviously that HALO team gets to go and maybe whichever teams takes over for their deployment, but what are there other MFF qualified units/positions in the ARMY besides Green Berets?
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Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
03-01-2013, 05:54 AM | #18475 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
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Answered my own question:
List of HALO/HAHO Jump capable units - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I know when Oliver asked Larry about qualifications he said they would have to be Airborne qualified to be Joes. I wonder if it should really be MFF qualified: Civilian Agencies Special Activities Division (CIA) AIR FORCE U.S. Air Force Pararescue U.S. Air Force Combat Control U.S. Air Force Tactical Air Control Party U.S. Air Force Special Operations Weather Teams Air Force SERE (Survival, Evasion, Resistance & Escape) Specialist Army U.S. Army 1st SFOD-D (Combat Applications Group, also known as Delta Force) U.S. Army Special Forces (Green Berets) Army Intelligence Support Activity (USAIS) (frequently shortened to Intelligence Support Activity or ISA, and nicknamed The Activity) U.S. Army Rangers (Ranger Regimental Recon Detachment) U.S. Army Long Range Surveillance (LRS-Detachment) and (LRS-Company) 55th Signal Company (Combat Camera) Marine Corps U.S. Marine Corps Force Reconnaissance U.S. Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command U.S. Marine Corps Reconnaissance Battalions Navy U.S. Navy EOD U.S. Navy SEALs U.S. Navy SWCC (Special Boat Teams)
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Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
03-01-2013, 08:38 AM | #18476 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
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Quote:
In regards to the proliferation of E-4's, I've always thought maybe the Joes were like the Australian / NZ SAS where a soldier upon acceptance into the unit starts as a junior trooper. Any drop in rank (and pay) is usually made up by the bonus entitlements etc. |
03-01-2013, 09:01 AM | #18477 |
#voteblackjack
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The Activity is a great comic book written by Nathan Edmondson and published by Image Comics.
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03-01-2013, 09:31 AM | #18478 |
Crimson Guard
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Location: Australia
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Quote:
The Killer Elite by Michael Smith is a good book about the Activity if anyone wants to read about them. |
03-01-2013, 10:30 AM | #18479 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,236
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Quote:
Quote:
You usually have to be in a job( billet) that requires that skill. All Air Force PJs and CCTs( so the are ready to attach to any SOF unit, All Navy SEALs( as part of the requirement to get the Trident),selected SWCCs and Navy EOD, MARSOC Marines, some Recon Marines, Green Berets on jump teams, Rangers with the LRSU. You also have people that are attached to these units that may go.
Quote:
Nice. Well if Ripcord is Army that should make him at least a Ranger, but I'm trying to see if there may be more secrets?
Obviously I doubt an E-4 would be a Green Beret, but I figure it may be assumed that most of the Army Joes could have easily been picked up by Green Berets, or Delta. I know there is the 18X program but I'm curious how many Soldiers make it all the was through to be Special Forces through that program? Since Freefall and Ripcord are HALO qualified and ranked below E-6, I put them in a Ranger Reg. Recon Team (RRT) but they could go into an LRS Team as well. |
03-01-2013, 10:40 AM | #18480 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,236
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Here are the prerequisites for taking the MFF course (from the ATRRS catalog):
"Army Active Component or Reserve Component Special Operations Forces Commissioned Officers (LT-CPT), Warrant Officers (WO1-CW3) or enlisted personnel (PFC-MSG), assigned to or on orders for assignment to a military free fall coded position. Other Commissioned Officers, Warrant Officers, or enlisted personnel of the Active or Reserve Components, selected DoD civilian personnel or allied personnel must be assigned to or on orders for assignment to a MFF coded position. Requests for exceptions to the above must be endorsed in writing by the first O-5 commander in the chain of command. Must be a qualified military static line parachutist. Must have a current Class III flight physical examination IAW AR 40-501 dated within two years of course completion date. Must report with a current Physiological Training Record, High-Altitude Parachutist Initial (HAP INT) (AF Form 1274; AF Form 702, Navy Form 1550/28-NP-6 card; or USAAMC AA Form 484.) Personnel cannot exceed 240 pounds. Any variation from the above standards requires a waiver from the Commanding General, USAJFKSWCS." Looks like Roadblock may need a waiver for his weight. Basically, though, it's not a course that someone would just take for the badge. They need to be assigned to a HALO capable unit, and those are the ones Loose and Blackrazor already mentioned above. |
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