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10-19-2012, 06:23 PM | #18071 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Quote:
I never considered the RCC a Tier-1 unit like Delta. Is that official? I know that they are exceptionally skilled but they're more or less the equivalent of a Special Forces recon team or Long Range Surveillance unit, which doesn't require as much money to train and operate. I thought what primarily separated Tier 1 from other tiers was the level of funding.
A while back I had decided to place Ripcord and Freefall in RCC because they're HALO jumpers and the only units that really use HALO techniques are Special Forces, SEALs, LRSU, MSOT, and a few other elite units. Sky Patrol always seemed like the perfect SF recon team to me because of their specialties and ranks but Ripcord and Freefall weren't even staff sergeants, so I put them on a team with Recoil, Sneak Peek, Recondo and Outback. The RRC suppossedly became Tier 1 (part of JSOC) in 2007. Prior to that, they were called the Regimental Recon Detachments (RRD) and there was one per battalion. Everything changed when they were bumped up. If they are Tier 1, then I think it's safe to assume that they are more proficient and better equiped than the SF Recon Teams or the Division LRS Teams, though all of those guys are very good at their jobs. By becoming a Tier 1 unit, the RRC is basically different from the rest of the Ranger Regiment. How's this for an example: Delta is officially known as Special Forces Operational Detachment - Delta. It's listed like an SF detachment, but is not at all involved with the other SF goups. The RRC is like that with the Rangers... it's something completely on it's own, it's just listed as a Regimental unit officially. Does that make sense?
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
10-19-2012, 06:58 PM | #18072 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,236
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I understand, but my point was that many have argued that proficiency and skill aren't criteria for a Tier 1 label. It has to do with the amount of funding the unit receives. Granted more funding for training and weapons can enhance proficiency and so on but it's difficult to pin down an official record or document that lists which units fall under different tiers. Some sites have claimed that SF and Rangers are Tier 2 and others say Tier 3, for example.
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10-20-2012, 12:11 AM | #18073 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
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Loose, I love some of those customs.
Big Ben, Muskrat, General Rey, Keel Haul and Tiger Claw look spot on! I like what you did to make Col Courage. Never thought Rip's head would work but throw a helmet on him and he looks great. |
10-20-2012, 12:18 AM | #18074 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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thanks Tyroc. Thats about the extent of my painting skills. But that Duke body is nearly a perfect match for courage. Most of the rest I bought off ebay.
Next I have to line up my lazy custom headswaps. And of course I think I have as many Cobra Customs as well.
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Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
10-20-2012, 01:30 AM | #18075 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
|
Quote:
I understand, but my point was that many have argued that proficiency and skill aren't criteria for a Tier 1 label. It has to do with the amount of funding the unit receives. Granted more funding for training and weapons can enhance proficiency and so on but it's difficult to pin down an official record or document that lists which units fall under different tiers. Some sites have claimed that SF and Rangers are Tier 2 and others say Tier 3, for example.
However, Tier 1 is clearly defined as those units in JSOC. That's Tier 1. The other units all fall under SOCOM. The only real exception is the 160th SOAR, which JSOC uses pretty extensively. Tier 1 isn't defined by who has the most money or even the coolest toys or longest training... it's simply a matter of which units fall under JSOC. Certainly, those units tend to be our most elite guys.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
10-20-2012, 02:21 AM | #18076 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
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I think the problem (not with us, but with the vast majority of folks whose only association with the tier system is thru video games) is the failure to understand the reciprocal relationship between the way SOCOM allocates funding and the myriad of different units.
Simply put, the high priority units gets the most funding. The nature of the War on Terror has placed a greater emphasis on limited direct action, special reconnaissance, high value target hunting etc. All missions that favor JSOC units and the units that support them (Rangers, 160th etc). I think the tier system would be altogether different if the current Socio-Political landscape were coupled with the military assets of today. Say, we transposed all current capabilities back to the late 70's at the height of the Cold War. I'm pretty sure SF, MARSOC, SEALs and other units tasked with foreign internal defense would be the units garnering more funding and the tier system would be look very different. |
10-20-2012, 05:19 AM | #18077 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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What I'm wondering reading through all the great material you guys have provided, is 160 SOARs must be either over committed or have gathered a bump in unit levels. I'm not sure if all the SoF under JSOC get use of the Night Stalkers, but I presume so.
But don't they also support tier 2 units? Do they support teir 2 units from the other services like MARSOC and SEALs? If not, are there other Special mission capable Helicopter units from the other services? Has anyone read anything good about the 95 Civil Affairs brigade? Units like those and PsyOp, the Sustainment brigade correlate well with Steel Brigade. Red Zone- 160 SOARs (Although his rank is messed up) Rook- PSYOP (He's listed as interrogator) but his listed as proficeint in 14 different languages Checkpoint- Military Police (What we all see Steel Brigade doing in some respect.)
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Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
10-20-2012, 05:51 AM | #18078 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
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Quote:
What I'm wondering reading through all the great material you guys have provided, is 160 SOARs must be either over committed or have gathered a bump in unit levels. I'm not sure if all the SoF under JSOC get use of the Night Stalkers, but I presume so.
But don't they also support tier 2 units? Do they support teir 2 units from the other services like MARSOC and SEALs? If not, are there other Special mission capable Helicopter units from the other services? Has anyone read anything good about the 95 Civil Affairs brigade? Units like those and PsyOp, the Sustainment brigade correlate well with Steel Brigade. Red Zone- 160 SOARs (Although his rank is messed up) Rook- PSYOP (He's listed as interrogator) but his listed as proficeint in 14 different languages Checkpoint- Military Police (What we all see Steel Brigade doing in some respect.) HSC-84 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The Marines are developing their own capability and usually use their own air assets. That said, I think the 160th and Air Force Special Operations Aircraft support all SOCOM and JSOC units where and when needed. Interrogators are more a part of Military Intelligence than Military Information Support (the new term for PSYOP). I use Rook as part of a Human Intelligence Exploitation cell from the Activity. Speaking of, has anyone read Image's The Activity comic? it's very cool and I really wish the guy who writes it would be contracted to do some Joe stuff |
10-20-2012, 06:05 AM | #18079 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
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Quote:
Here's a good link to a blog created by the Public Affairs team of Joint-Special Operations Task Force - Philippines. Joint Special Operations Task Force - Philippines (JSOTF-P) If you read thru some of the older posts, it'll give you a good idea on how Civil Affairs teams, PSYOP teams and SF / SEALs work in concert to win hearts and minds in what they call "Influence Operations" The idea is to help communities on the fringes or who have been affected by terrorism by building schools, helping heal the sick and injured, help with their agricultural livelihood (the CA veterinarian is a LT COL !) and basically try to reach out to kids and young people to not only show them that the West is not all bad but also hopefully think twice before pulling the trigger. (One PSYOP cartoon shows how a kid who was treated well by a serviceman might think twice before opening fire on him) |
10-20-2012, 12:33 PM | #18080 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,236
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So is JSOC now commanding the Ranger's RRC directly? I thought it was still just a Ranger element. Anyway here are some interesting articles on the tier 1 topic and why it's confusing.
Ready to Get Back in the Saddle « Tactical Mindset Three SOF Phrases That I Hate | SOFREP |
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