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10-19-2012, 12:06 AM | #18061 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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I made Skydive a Captain. It never made sense to me either. When they came out the six of them flooded the Joe's NCOs ranks. Altitude was the first Sgt Major the Joe's had. Even outranking Duke.
__________________
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
10-19-2012, 02:19 AM | #18062 |
G.I.Joe medic
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Litchfield, ME
Posts: 3,169
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This info on the Regimental Recon Co. is very interesting. In fact, although it hasn't been around all that long, it almost sounds like it could be a model for the Joe team. At least, that's what I'm thinking of doing in my Joeverse. It's very similar to the original concept of SF-behind the lines missions-without the language skills. If you look at the Joe's filecards, only a few are noted to have langage skills- Stalker, Breaker, Duke, Falcon, and Lady Jaye are the ones that come to mind.
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10-19-2012, 02:20 AM | #18063 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: May 2007
Location: England
Posts: 1,230
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Quote:
The "Tier" system only refers to U.S. Military units. The CIA/SAD guys are roughly equal in skill and training to our Tier 1 units, but because the CIA is outside of the U.S. Department of Defense - and thus outside JSOC - it isn't factored into the Tier system. Neither would units from Britain, NZ or Australia or any other allied nation. Though certainly there are analogies that make sense and we can talk about those.
Quote:
Tier 1 - The most elite guys we have... but remember, all Special Operators are specialists. The more specialized, the more narrow the focus. It's like this: Special Ops units are like precision instruments - a scapel or a katana. Regular Infantry is like a broad sword or a hammer. This is the US perspective. It stands to reason, therefore, that at the top tier, you would need more units with fewer soldiers who specialize in specific types of missions. Obviously all these guys are incredibly well trained and proficient soldiers, but the focus of each unit is a little different, albeit with some obvious overlap.
I can see more specialisms coming out as one drops down to Tier 2 and even more so at Tier 3, but do the operations carried out by Tier 1 units justify having so many units? I can understand the inter-branch rivalry and that each branch (and even groups within each branch) wanting to be part of the higher Tiers, I'm just wondering whether it's mainly this or a real difference between specialisms that produces so many groups? In the UK we have SAS and SBS as "Tier 1" units, and in many ways this is based on inter-service rivalry as both groups have very similar skillsets. I suppose this says little about the way the units are run, and how well they get on with our American allies, which does seems to have been a bit of a difference between them. That's great as usual Oliver, many thanks While talking about non-US forces, where do we place the following (who are presumably considered Tier 3 or above by the makers of Medal of Honor): Canadian JTF2 German KSK Norwegian FSK Polish GROM Russian Alpha Group (Spetsnaz) Swedish SOG I could see the Norwegian and Swedish SoF being very good at winter and mountain ops as well as LRRP due to their terrain; I suppose Canadian JTF2 would potentially have exactly the same skillset too as Canada is very similar (if a little bigger! ;)) Edit: I take it back, it looks like the Canadian JTF2 are a counter terrorism/assault team, so rather more specialised that I'd thought, though operating in Libya and Afghanistan is probably a rather broad reading of "counter terrorism" and would require a good level of other skills Last edited by lardman; 10-19-2012 at 02:24 AM.. |
10-19-2012, 03:00 AM | #18064 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
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Quote:
I was thinking the same thing... and, if I were to modernize my Joeverse's continuity), I would say Snake-Eyes/Stalker/Storm Shadow's Ranger LRRP unit would be pretty nicely adapted to one of these 6-man RRC teams.
Honestly, it makes complete sense for those guys. They're all super-qualified, Tier 1 types, but we've never been able to work around the fact that they're not Special Forces qualified... solution: they're Tier 1 Recon Rangers. And prior to Claymore's convention filecard, he might have fit into this designation as well. Sky Patrol could be seen as a similar idea - a 6-man team - so Sky Dive, who comes from the Ranger Regiment, might have been a part of this. It's tough to say, this unit isn't nearly as old as the Joes we're talking about, but it's an interesting idea that some of them might have come from this unit as opposed to Delta, ISA, or DevGru. I'll definitely have to pick up that book, I read Couch's book about the SEAL's "The Warrior Elite". Thanks for the heads up I recently finished a book by Marc Ambinder and D.B. Grady called "The Command - Deep Inside the President's secret army". Very interesting read about JSOC and its special mission units. The authors highlight some very little known groups like the Joint Medical Augmentation Unit (JMAU) which I'm making Doc and Lifeline members of and an Intel unit made up of female Intel and Interrogation specialists known by the abbreviation "B.I." I definitely recommend it |
10-19-2012, 03:11 AM | #18065 |
80's Civil Air Patrol Cdt
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Wichita, The Air Capital of the World
Posts: 678
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Loose Cannon, I placed my current complete layout of my SpecMiFor on Darkhawk75's thread "My Top Brass" on page 41. I broke the layout between 4 posts to kinda keep them short.
http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-jo...ml#post4019168
__________________
Cobra's got the Delta Station, They're plantin' cubes throughout creation. If we don't start RETALIATION, We're sunk and that's no bunk. -Roadblock, in Pyramid of Darkness miniseries. |
10-19-2012, 03:22 AM | #18066 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
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Quote:
While talking about non-US forces, where do we place the following (who are presumably considered Tier 3 or above by the makers of Medal of Honor):
Canadian JTF2 German KSK Norwegian FSK Polish GROM Russian Alpha Group (Spetsnaz) Swedish SOG I could see the Norwegian and Swedish SoF being very good at winter and mountain ops as well as LRRP due to their terrain; I suppose Canadian JTF2 would potentially have exactly the same skillset too as Canada is very similar (if a little bigger! ;)) The Australian SASR desperately wants to be Tier 1 but currently lacks the funding (especially in terms of aviation and UAV support) and both the government and the public not wanting to create a 'larger footprint'. Here's a good article if anyone's interested SAS push to fight with elite US forces Oliver, you did a bang up job describing the tier system thank you Also, here's an interesting link to the SOCOM Special Operations Year in Review Special Operations 2011 - 27 |
10-19-2012, 08:28 AM | #18067 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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Quote:
Loose Cannon, I placed my current complete layout of my SpecMiFor on Darkhawk75's thread "My Top Brass" on page 41. I broke the layout between 4 posts to kinda keep them short.
http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-jo...ml#post4019168 I'm guessing the rank changes have to do with your preferences for the characters. I see you are a Duke as an Officer fan. (So am I.) All in all a good layout. But I would love to see the customs for many of these characters. I have a lot of these same characters included in my joeverse, many are cutoms. I would love to know the recipes for these guys: -Colonel Joseph Colton -SFC Friday (Zarana in Disguise) -Sgt Sparks -Major Santa, MH-6 Pilot from 160th SOARS -LT Nightingale, US Navy, UH-60 Pilot -Major Cactus, Tiger Rat Pilot USMC (John Wayne in "Flying Leathernecks") I AM SO STEALINF THIS ONE! -Lt Stone, Dragon Hawk pilot -WO MayDay, RHINO Helo Pilot -WO Mirage, Marine Gunner, Ghost Hawk, Water Skimmer pilot -SSgt Bulletproof, Jack Hammer Driver (ROC Steel Crusher) -SSgt Dodger, RHINO Driver -SSgt Tollbooth, R.O.C.C. Driver -Sgt Salvo, -Sgt Skidmark, -PO2 Rampart, -Sgt Hardball, Weapons *VAMP1500 This whole team: (Is Slipstream a liason officer of some kind?) A-02 "Sky Patrol" Airborne & Air Assault *Capt Slipstream, CO *VAMP 1500 -WO Sky Dive, XO -SMaj Altitude, Ops Sgt *TSgt Pathfinder, 10th Weather *MSgt Raven, Phoenix Raven Security USAF Team -SFC Drop Zone, Weapons *TSgt Rip Cord, Special Tactics Team -SSgt Static Line, Combat Engineer *VAMP 1500 *SSgt Bombstrike, Combat Controller -SFC Airwave, RTO *TSgt Stretcher, Polejumper -Sgt Rigger, Medic *Capt Psyche Out, CO *VAMP1500 *MSgt Bullhorn, Ops -SSgt Jinx, Intel & Asst Ops *Sgt Barricade, EOD -SSgt Long Range, Weapons & Vehicle *VAMP1500 1LT Rapid Fire, Platoon Leader SSgt Sneak Peek, Forward Observer Sgt Spearhead, Guidon Bearer (WHAT DOES A GUIDON BEARER DO? the rest of 1st Platoon 2nd Squad: "Ghost Squad" (These Joes died in the comic book) *SFC Kate, (Shooter in Declassified, figure used Marvel Storm) *SSgt Kwinn, -Cpl Blocker, -Spec Coolbreeze, -Spec Mangler, 3rd Squad: "Night Force" *SFC Outback, -SSgt Repeater, -Sgt Muskrat, -Cpl Shockwave, -Spc Lightfoot, *SSgt Ambush, -Sgt Recoil, -Cpl Hit n Run, -Cpl Crazy Legs, Weapons Squad "Screamin Eagles" *SFC Savage -Sgt D-Day -Cpl Headbanger, -Cpl Grill, -Cpl Tank *SSgt Rock -Sgt Mouse -Cpl Dynamite, -Cpl Quickstyke, Speaking of customs here are a few of my favorites. If anyone recognizes making any of these please remind me. I still have tons of figures I simply renamed or did headswaps for, but that will need another posting. Anyone who does not own CliffJumper (Jurassic Park Guy/I stole that name from Troy) should consider getting one before they are all gone. It's like $11.99.
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Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. Last edited by Loose Cannon; 10-19-2012 at 09:02 AM.. |
10-19-2012, 02:31 PM | #18068 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: May 2007
Location: England
Posts: 1,230
|
Quote:
The Australian SASR desperately wants to be Tier 1 but currently lacks the funding (especially in terms of aviation and UAV support) and both the government and the public not wanting to create a 'larger footprint'.
Here's a good article if anyone's interested SAS push to fight with elite US forces I'd prefer the "Tier 1" rating to be a gauge of the skills and abilities of a unit, but I suppose part of their abilities and skills depends on what equipment they have available. |
10-19-2012, 05:48 PM | #18069 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,235
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I never considered the RCC a Tier-1 unit like Delta. Is that official? I know that they are exceptionally skilled but they're more or less the equivalent of a Special Forces recon team or Long Range Surveillance unit, which doesn't require as much money to train and operate. I thought what primarily separated Tier 1 from other tiers was the level of funding.
A while back I had decided to place Ripcord and Freefall in RCC because they're HALO jumpers and the only units that really use HALO techniques are Special Forces, SEALs, LRSU, MSOT, and a few other elite units. Sky Patrol always seemed like the perfect SF recon team to me because of their specialties and ranks but Ripcord and Freefall weren't even staff sergeants, so I put them on a team with Recoil, Sneak Peek, Recondo and Outback. Last edited by Tanksmasher; 10-19-2012 at 06:05 PM.. |
10-19-2012, 05:49 PM | #18070 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,235
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double post
Last edited by Tanksmasher; 10-19-2012 at 06:04 PM.. |
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