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10-18-2012, 01:41 AM | #18051 |
80's Civil Air Patrol Cdt
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Quote:
Basically, other than reading about the training and day-to-day activities of the Regiment, the book briefly touched on the Regimental Recon Company...
And then I looked them up on wikipedia: Regimental Reconnaissance Company - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Pretty interesting. It's basically a Tier 1 (Delta/DevGru equivalent) unit that focuses directly on Special Recon and small unit Direct Action. It's about five 6-man teams of operators. Pretty interesting. They're supposedly the newest members of JSOC. I'll be interested in hearing what y'all think. I would say this would be where Sneak Peek and possibly Recoil came from.
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Cobra's got the Delta Station, They're plantin' cubes throughout creation. If we don't start RETALIATION, We're sunk and that's no bunk. -Roadblock, in Pyramid of Darkness miniseries. Last edited by takedown; 10-18-2012 at 01:51 AM.. |
10-18-2012, 12:00 PM | #18052 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
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Quote:
Honestly, it makes complete sense for those guys. They're all super-qualified, Tier 1 types, but we've never been able to work around the fact that they're not Special Forces qualified... solution: they're Tier 1 Recon Rangers. And prior to Claymore's convention filecard, he might have fit into this designation as well. Sky Patrol could be seen as a similar idea - a 6-man team - so Sky Dive, who comes from the Ranger Regiment, might have been a part of this. It's tough to say, this unit isn't nearly as old as the Joes we're talking about, but it's an interesting idea that some of them might have come from this unit as opposed to Delta, ISA, or DevGru.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
10-18-2012, 01:56 PM | #18053 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
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Well it sure soundslike sky patrol. And they serve the purpose I always envisioned for them. Secure the landing zone. I just never imagined a team so small could do it. Still 36 weeks is not 18 month q courses. It would stand to reason the army could totally make use of guys with a high skill set but not needing as much language training and so could the Joe's. I bet this team has more guys go to delta than any other. And pretty much any Ranger Joe would come from this unit.
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10-18-2012, 02:04 PM | #18054 |
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Quote:
Well it sure soundslike sky patrol. And they serve the purpose I always envisioned for them. Secure the landing zone. I just never imagined a team so small could do it. Still 36 weeks is not 18 month q courses. It would stand to reason the army could totally make use of guys with a high skill set but not needing as much language training and so could the Joe's. I bet this team has more guys go to delta than any other. And pretty much any Ranger Joe would come from this unit.
There's not a lot of info on the RRC, so it's really difficult to compare them to Delta or anyone else, but because they fall under JSOC, they are considered the equal/equivalent level of Delta. Just a different mission. To me, Freefall seems like a guy who would come from this unit. Obviously, it would be awesome to actually sit down and talk to some guys who had served in some of these units. It would really help to understand the nuances and differences in their mission specialties and capabilities. You make a great point about the "Q" course being so long. After reading "Sua Sponte", I actually think Delta is really a lot more like an advanced Ranger Regiment than it is a Special Forces Team. The Rangers don't worry about language. They're a strike team, Raiders, pure gunfighters. Delta is like that but with more precision and expertise. SF really is a thing all to itself. It can do those strike-team missions, but they do so much more. Their work in Afghanistan has been amazing, and no other unit has the training or expertise to pull that off.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? Last edited by oliverbox; 10-18-2012 at 02:08 PM.. |
10-18-2012, 02:10 PM | #18055 |
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Freefall should totally be Sky patrol as well as Ripcord, straduster,
I always figure Delta to be older guys like E -6 and above. But this sounds like they could give Delta a run for its money.
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10-18-2012, 02:23 PM | #18056 |
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Quote:
And yeah, for Special Recon, or small-unit Direct Action, these guys are probably as proficient as anyone in the business. Delta is still probably the gold standard for CQB and Hostage Rescue, but it's really just a question of specialties and training.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
10-18-2012, 02:38 PM | #18057 |
Crimson Guard
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Quote:
I know we've been through this before, but humour me please, I'm British ;) Afaiu we have the following: Tier 1: Delta DevGru (SEAL Team 6) and now another Army unit, Rangers RRC. [plus non-US forces such as the British SAS and SBS] CIA/SAD too presumably? Who is in Tier 2 vs 3? I've read that MARSOC are Tier 2, SEALs are Tier 3, presumably SF (or perhaps only parts thereof) are Tier 2. I also read that Rangers are seen as Tier 2? What did we previously decide the British Paras and Royal Marines were? At least we, over here, just have 2 units at each level - one army and one naval/marine, though the cross over of missions with those is bad enough when you get to the top. It was interesting reading "Task Force Black" that the SBS weren't seen as being "Tier 1" by the SAS at the start of the Afghanistan/Iraq campaigns (I will have to check which as the start times are quite different) - from other sources it would appear that the SBS certainly ended up as a Tier 1 unit so whether that comment was purely inter-unit rivalry I don't know. Is there a pecking order of other non-US SoF, e.g. where to the Australian and NZ SAS stand, or the Polish GROM, etc? (/me thinks of the units to be available in Medal of [sic ;)]Honor Warfighter) Quote:
Well, the idea here is that the Ranger Regimental Recon Company IS a Tier 1 unit. In other words, the RRC is ON PAR/Equal to Delta. So, the Rangers from the regular Ranger Battalions may try out for Delta OR this unit, but this unit supposedly stands next to Delta/DevGru. The RRC is not a "feeder" for Delta. Delta has a 4-week Selection, and then about 26 weeks (6 months) of training. This unit has a 3-week (although, I've read some sources that say 2-week) selection, and then 36 weeks of training - lots of different schools.
Last edited by lardman; 10-18-2012 at 02:40 PM.. Reason: typo |
10-18-2012, 02:59 PM | #18058 |
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Quote:
Are Delta effectively amped up SF? I do find it very confusing the fact that there are so many Tiers in the US military (less the Tiers themselves as the sheer number of units who exist at each level).
I know we've been through this before, but humour me please, I'm British ;) Afaiu we have the following: Tier 1: Delta DevGru (SEAL Team 6) and now another Army unit, Rangers RRC. [plus non-US forces such as the British SAS and SBS] CIA/SAD too presumably? Who is in Tier 2 vs 3? I've read that MARSOC are Tier 2, SEALs are Tier 3, presumably SF (or perhaps only parts thereof) are Tier 2. I also read that Rangers are seen as Tier 2? What did we previously decide the British Paras and Royal Marines were? At least we, over here, just have 2 units at each level - one army and one naval/marine, though the cross over of missions with those is bad enough when you get to the top. It was interesting reading "Task Force Black" that the SBS weren't seen as being "Tier 1" by the SAS at the start of the Afghanistan/Iraq campaigns (I will have to check which as the start times are quite different) - from other sources it would appear that the SBS certainly ended up as a Tier 1 unit so whether that comment was purely inter-unit rivalry I don't know. Is there a pecking order of other non-US SoF, e.g. where to the Australian and NZ SAS stand, or the Polish GROM, etc? (/me thinks of the units to be available in Medal of [sic ;)]Honor Warfighter) This sounds like a degree of specialisation which is surely against the whole idea of these Tier 1 units; though perhaps things have changed? The "Tier" system is officially a 3 tier system, but it is often further defined in a way that makes it look like more of a 4 tiered system. Tier 1 - The most elite guys we have... but remember, all Special Operators are specialists. The more specialized, the more narrow the focus. It's like this: Special Ops units are like precision instruments - a scapel or a katana. Regular Infantry is like a broad sword or a hammer. This is the US perspective. It stands to reason, therefore, that at the top tier, you would need more units with fewer soldiers who specialize in specific types of missions. Obviously all these guys are incredibly well trained and proficient soldiers, but the focus of each unit is a little different, albeit with some obvious overlap. Army Delta/CAG Navy DevGru/Team 6 Army ISA (Intelligence Support Activity) USAF 24th Tactical Squadron Army Ranger RRC Tier 2 Army Special Forces Navy SEALs Tier 3 USMC MARSOC* (plans for them to move to Tier 2, but not yet). Army Ranger Regiment* USAF PJ's and Combat Controllers* Army 16oth SOAR* Army 4th PsyOps Army 95th Civil Affairs Army USASOC Support Command Navy SWCC USAF Special Ops aircraft (I don't know all the designations) * these units in tier 3 are considered more elite than the others, so that's why they're often talked about as 4 tiers. The Marines are working toward becoming a Tier 2 equivalent, but they're still pretty new to Special Operation Command, and the Navy doesn't really want that. The Navy sees the SEALs as Tier 2 and MARSOC as something similar to the Ranger Regiment - Tier 3. The USMC has modeled MARSOC on Army SF, so they want to be used as Tier 2. British SAS, SBS, and SRR are considered to be the equivalent of Tier 1. Austrailian and NZ SAS units are more on par with Tier 2. Paras and Royal Marines are on par with Army Ranger and MARSOC, so their upper Tier 3. I hope that helps.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? Last edited by oliverbox; 10-18-2012 at 03:05 PM.. |
10-18-2012, 07:34 PM | #18059 |
A certified megalomaniac.
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: BC, land of 1000 BBQ pits!!
Posts: 303
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What I find unusual about Sky Patrol is that Skydive is the leader, yet his rank is E-5(Sergeant). And IIRC, Altitude is the highest ranked.
I guess maybe leadership doesn't have to with rank as it does with who has the capability to lead.
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10-18-2012, 09:21 PM | #18060 |
Snarkybits
Join Date: Apr 2011
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PoC Skydive is an E-8.
But yeah, Altitude still outranks him. |
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