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10-07-2011, 03:18 PM | #16801 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 243
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Quote:
Question:
As I understand it, ODAs, or Alpha Teams, were used in Nam as Force Multipliers, working with and training indigenous forces (as their primary role). A) is this still a correct definition/mission role for Alpha Teams? B) if so, wouldn't it seem unlikely for GI Joe to have any ODAs, or at least more than one? Joe's mission is nothing like SF in Nam or any conventional/modern warfare tactic. There are rarely if ever a indigenous force to train as guerrilla fighters. Or even conventional recce or search/destroy missions, as in Nam or Iraq, Afghanistan or other open warfare areas. Obviously, Joe is based on a subset of SF's organization...a team, like Delta or Seal Team Six. Trying to ascribe large unit organizations to them just doesn't seem to work. Of course, I am beginning to think that the whole thing of Joe being a military run unit at all...more like a CIA or other Alphabet soup organization that draws on military resources but isn't restricted by the same policies as the military like Posse Comitatus. Posse particularly bugs me because Cobra, Joe's primary tasking, is primarily a domestic terrorist organization. I see what you are saying about Posse Comitatus though. With Cobra being an ever present enemy of the United States for decades now and the fact that they are a sovereign nation on Cobra Island, couldn't Congress declare war on the Nation of Cobra? Wouldn't that then make their forces operating in the United States a foreign invasion and allow regular military forces to fight them within the borders? |
10-07-2011, 03:36 PM | #16802 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 243
|
Also, no offense intended to DEVGRU or Delta Force, but I never thought of GI Joe's mission as just going in to kill the bad guys and leave. I see them as more of a good versus evil type of story. If a peaceful little farming village in Sierra Gordo is burned to the ground to make way for the latest Terror Drome, I'd like for the GI Joe team to show up and not only defeat Cobra, but have Doc fix up the hurt little kids and for them to help rebuild the village and right the wrongs that Cobra inflicted. It's the corny cartoon version of Joe that I grew up with, but it's the one that's stuck in my head. Cobra has mercenaries, but Joe has heros.
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10-07-2011, 04:18 PM | #16803 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Quote:
One more quick question on this. Would Hawk refer to them as ODA-TF1 and ODA-NF1 or would the ODA be redundant? I suppose it would depend upon who he was talking to and in what context. Right now, I have enough of the Tiger Force guys to have ODA-TF1, but I do cheat a bit, by using the tan colored Stalker from the dvd pack and Claymore to round out the team. I try to stick to cannon as much as possible, but I just felt Claymore fits in with Tiger Force perfectly and my budget is not going to allow for the purchase of Mission Brazil any time soon. Night Force I'm even farther away on completing, but I have many of the members, just in the wrong uniform, so I don't feel so bad including them in my set up. So in my case, Hawk would probably refer to them as TF1 if he was speaking to another Joe. Like Oliver stated, the 3 digit or in my case character designation tells us what team he is specifically speaking of. The ODA would probably only come into play if he was speaking to an outside party and needed that piece of the designation as a descriptive term for the team. Like maybe when he is speaking to Congress or the media. Does that sound about right?
__________________
Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
10-07-2011, 04:22 PM | #16804 |
File Name: CLASSIFIED
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Myrtle Beach
Posts: 259
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Quote:
That is a very good point. I guess how I'm viewing these ODA teams like Tiger Force is based on some of the comics. I can't quote issue numbers, but we are shown that Recondo works in Sierra Gordo with the local population resisting Cobra. Also wasn't there an issue where the Joes are sent into a Middle Eastern like country to fight Cobra when the political situation prevented the normal military from intervening. There are other issues where certain Joes end up working with rebel forces in some way or another. That's why I thought of turning some of the subteams into ODAs.
I see what you are saying about Posse Comitatus though. With Cobra being an ever present enemy of the United States for decades now and the fact that they are a sovereign nation on Cobra Island, couldn't Congress declare war on the Nation of Cobra? Wouldn't that then make their forces operating in the United States a foreign invasion and allow regular military forces to fight them within the borders? As for Cobra Island and it's Nationhood, that was covered pretty thoroughly in the Marvel run and put to bed. In the 80s, such political games were applicable, but in the last few years, tiptoeing around Cobra's nation status wouldn't happen. Imagine if Ossama set up shop in a little island and said "You can't touch us now. We're a nation!" it have been gone in about the length of time it would take to scramble some fighters from the nearest base/carrier. Cobra works best as a criminal/terrorist network...actually, more like a criminal organization....maybe something like the Russian mobs or the Mexican Cartels, with gun trafficking, protection rackets, corporate front companies, tec. Sure, that could be attributed to Al Quada, too, but, other than the silly rule-the-world idea, Cobra doesnt have the fanatical ideology of a terrorist group. Yes, DDP made CC into some ultrarightwing idealist, which was an interesting idea, but it limits the scope. What would an American Terrorist group run ops in whatever-stan. It be like the IRA trying to cause a revolution in Haiti. Of course, the current IDW version has some promise. Cobra is all about power and greed....ruling from the shadows. Although, IMO, it might be a little too shadowy. A final "of course": if we turn Cobra into some criminal organization bent on power and money, while it doesn't change nearly a single storyline for Cobra (and might make some make better sense), it would completely change the origin/mission/need for GI Joe. It most likely could not be a military team, but a law enforcement unit. Maybe something like NCIS. |
10-07-2011, 04:23 PM | #16805 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
|
Quote:
Question:
As I understand it, ODAs, or Alpha Teams, were used in Nam as Force Multipliers, working with and training indigenous forces (as their primary role). A) is this still a correct definition/mission role for Alpha Teams? B) if so, wouldn't it seem unlikely for GI Joe to have any ODAs, or at least more than one? Joe's mission is nothing like SF in Nam or any conventional/modern warfare tactic. There are rarely if ever a indigenous force to train as guerrilla fighters. Or even conventional recce or search/destroy missions, as in Nam or Iraq, Afghanistan or other open warfare areas. Obviously, Joe is based on a subset of SF's organization...a team, like Delta or Seal Team Six. Trying to ascribe large unit organizations to them just doesn't seem to work. 2. It's not unreasonable at all to organize the Joe team like a Special Forces Group. True, organizing it more like Delta would make a lot of sense, but the basic structure of an Army Special Forces Group would work very well for the Joe Team. And organizing a series of A-Teams with different mission/environmental perposes makes a lot of sense.
__________________
Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
10-07-2011, 04:26 PM | #16806 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
|
Quote:
Also, no offense intended to DEVGRU or Delta Force, but I never thought of GI Joe's mission as just going in to kill the bad guys and leave. I see them as more of a good versus evil type of story. If a peaceful little farming village in Sierra Gordo is burned to the ground to make way for the latest Terror Drome, I'd like for the GI Joe team to show up and not only defeat Cobra, but have Doc fix up the hurt little kids and for them to help rebuild the village and right the wrongs that Cobra inflicted. It's the corny cartoon version of Joe that I grew up with, but it's the one that's stuck in my head. Cobra has mercenaries, but Joe has heros.
__________________
Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
10-07-2011, 04:32 PM | #16807 |
File Name: CLASSIFIED
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Myrtle Beach
Posts: 259
|
Quote:
1. ODAs have existed ever since 'Nam, and we're still using them today in Iraq and Afghanistan. They are the basic unit of Special Forces teams. They can be tasked for teaching indigenous forces, like you mentioned, but each ODA has a different focus: HALO Ops, SCUBA Ops, CQB, Direct Action, Recon, etc. They do tons of stuff and do WAY more than just work out of FOB's training locals... they did way more than that in 'Nam.
2. It's not unreasonable at all to organize the Joe team like a Special Forces Group. True, organizing it more like Delta would make a lot of sense, but the basic structure of an Army Special Forces Group would work very well for the Joe Team. And organizing a series of A-Teams with different mission/environmental perposes makes a lot of sense. |
10-07-2011, 04:43 PM | #16808 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
|
The "Bravo" and "Charlie" elements are the support and leadership elements within the Group. All the "Frontline" shooter teams are Alpha Teams. Army SF does it all, and they do it as well as anybody in the world.
__________________
Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
10-07-2011, 08:15 PM | #16809 |
File Name: CLASSIFIED
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Myrtle Beach
Posts: 259
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10-08-2011, 02:17 PM | #16810 |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Kansas City, Missouri (misery)
Posts: 511
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Someone may have already pointed this one out... RoadPig's real name is Don DeLuca & he was named after a Hasbro exec... rumored to have a similar split personality...? Not 100% on that - maybe someone can verify...?
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