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06-16-2011, 10:50 PM | #16441 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Six and seven man squads have been a staple in MP and Cavalry Scout formations for years for a number of reasons (ease of transport with organic vehicles among them), so it could be that the 75th factored in those same considerations with their reorganization. A Ranger squad consisting of six or seven riflemen and a GMV-R or two would equal, if not exceed, the firepower of a traditionally organized nine-man infantry squad.
As Stormgard mentioned, in practice, the nine-man infantry squad organization oftentimes serves only as a rough guide, and is frequently changed and adapted to suit various task organizations in the field. When 1st Recon Bn deployed to Iraq in 2003 for example, their six-man recon teams were used during the opening months of OIF almost like a cross between motorized infantry and mounted cavalry, with personnel assigned and organized around Humvees: 3 or 4 Marines to a Humvee, with two vehicles forming a de facto "infantry squad." Last edited by zuludelta; 06-16-2011 at 10:55 PM.. |
06-17-2011, 12:00 AM | #16442 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
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I have a feeling that must be the reason behind the squad change as well. I thought maybe they switched vehicles to like a Stryker or something but I doubt that. Maybe they just went to face facts. They may have the same type of set up like 1st Recon, and in today's battlefields they are mostly just driving around. A Squad leader may only be able to control 2 vehicles. Although if they are in Afghanistan now I suppose they drive up to a village and have afghan hillbillies take pot shots at them all day, so everyone needs to be inside a vehicle.
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06-17-2011, 02:33 AM | #16443 |
EQ-Viper
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Quote:
I have a feeling that must be the reason behind the squad change as well. I thought maybe they switched vehicles to like a Stryker or something but I doubt that. Maybe they just went to face facts. They may have the same type of set up like 1st Recon, and in today's battlefields they are mostly just driving around.
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06-17-2011, 11:42 AM | #16444 |
Crimson Guard
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Quote:
That's cool, Stormgard. I didn't know you served in the Mech Inf. Is that where the name comes from?
Yeah, most of the time, units are improvising and simply reworking what they have to work with, but I'm always interested in the base structure or standard TO&E. Units are often understrength as you pointed out and you can build whatever size team you really need. I was just surprised to see them reduce the rifle squad to 7. Reducing the MG teams to 2 instead of 3 makes sense if that's all it takes to handle the weapon effectively, but reducing the rifle squad makes it seem like all they did was downsize the standard size of the platoon. There are obvious times when you have to operate with less than standard because of transportation limitations, and so, but I was just curious as to why they thought the smaller unit would be more effective. Makes sense for missions that require stealth and covert entry like recon, since more men can give away a position, but Rangers often seem to function more as a direct action element. I don't know. Do you think they've kept the original 3 NCOs in the squad? Seems like it might be overkill--3 SGTs leading 4 SPC/PFCs. Plus I imagine that would effect recruitment, requiring more NCOs for less people per squad. I'm guessing they're using 1 SL, 1 TL, 2 SAWs (MK46s), 2 Grenadiers and 1 rifleman, which still allows room for two effective fireteams. I did my national service in the Norwegian Army, First the Royal Foot Guards ("Gard"), then "Storm" (which was part of the cavalry at the time, rather than the infantry,but for all intents and purposes it was a heavily armed mechinf outfit). Back in '98, we were still riding around in old NM 135s, which is essentially a M113 with a turret and 20 mm machine cannon. We all wanted to get put on the CV90s which were being phased in at the time. Unfortuntely I never had a chance to do so myself - that's one hell of an IFV. I don't know much about US military squad and platoon organization. In Storm we typically had a Lt or Junior Lt leading a platoon, with each squad/vehicle being commanded by either a Sgt, or a Senior Corporal. Everyone else was enlisted, including the junior corporals who acted as 2nd in command of the squad and as vehicle commanders for the "tracks" when the Squad leader was on foot. In the Storm platoons, the AT fireteam often functioned as basic riflemen. No need to take along the high calibre stuff if you're storming a building or something. Before I was a "Stormtrooper" I spent half a year in a "pioneer" (combat engineer) platoon with the Royal Guards. As best I recall, we had 4 squads, each lead by an enlisted Junior Corporal. There was a platoon commander (Junior Lt) and two Sgts who functioned as instructors (they weren't formally attached to any one squad). |
06-17-2011, 11:45 AM | #16445 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jun 2010
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I heard when the Soviet Airborne units got the BMD 1, they made their squad much smaller - 4-6 men as the BMDs had such a small troop capacity. But they added the weapons of the BMD of course.
Barely armored at all, but providing mobility, serious firepower, and best of all - air droppable! There's something very cool about the BMD concept, even if it hasn't quite caught on. |
06-17-2011, 10:08 PM | #16446 |
Hog Driver
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Location: Georgia
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I wish I could find the link I found awhile back on the history of squad development. It discussed how the military conducted certain tests (in what manner I'm not sure) and concluded that a 9-man squad was very effective. However, the Marines always liked the "3 unit" concept: 3 fireteams, 3 squads, 3 platoons, 3 companies etc, so that at each level they could conduct similar tactics. It was interesting to read. I'll see if I can find it.
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06-17-2011, 11:46 PM | #16447 |
EQ-Viper
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Quote:
Again, this is another one of those rough guides and isn't necessarily a strictly prescribed thing. |
06-18-2011, 12:09 AM | #16448 |
EQ-Viper
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Quote:
I know the US tried to use lightened M113s as air-drop certified airborne armoured vehicles back in the 1960s and 1970s, but IIRC, the conclusion was that there weren't really very many situations that called for such a vehicle (and the M113 had to lose so much armour to make the weight that its skin could easily be penetrated by fire from AK-47s, rendering the "armour" designation rather moot). The concept was tried again for the Carter Administration's planned RDF (Rapid Deployment Force), but was scrapped along with the whole RDF concept in the mid-1980s. I think the current Pandur II 6x6 and 8x8 vehicles in use by some NATO countries are airdrop-certified, although I don't know if they're actually used specifically as airborne armoured vehicles (as opposed to conventional armoured vehicles). |
06-21-2011, 04:21 PM | #16449 |
EQ-Viper
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Quote:
GIJoe.nl :: Dossiers!
My personal fave is the Chinese Gung Ho...Chung Ho aka Sgt Kwo Mei Tang. http://www.gijoe.nl/dossiers/1989/dossier_chung-ho.jpg As the legend goes, "gung-ho" only became synonymous with the Marines in the late 1930s/early 1940s, after 2nd Marine Battalion commander Major Evans Carlson adopted it from his friend Rewi Alley, a communist organizer and leader from New Zealand who helped establish INDUSCO in China (where gōng hé became something of an INDUSCO slogan). |
06-21-2011, 11:47 PM | #16450 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
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WOw Zulu,
I figured it was just because they felt like the character has an Chinese name and the card art could pass as Asian. Now I have to google Rewi Alley for my daily history lesson. (Gung-Ho is my favortite Joe of all so I'm just eating this up.)
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