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04-28-2011, 01:00 PM | #15991 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
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Quote:
I'm sure all that about Samurai is true, however, this is the filecard thread. And Budo's filecard says he is an Infantryman. Now, if Larry Hama really did go to all that effort to write his filecard and include all sorts of bits and pieces of personal knowledge, then it seems that he may have been intentional about his branch selection.
Heck, for all we know, when Hama wrote Infantryman, he was referring to the old Vietnam War-era 11D MOS (Armored Reconnaissance Specialist). A lot of people forget that up until relatively recently, the job of "armored reconnaissance" (the role associated with today's Armor branch cavalry scouts) was actually an infantry branch MOS. We know Hama tended to use Vietnam War-era definitions of MOSes and billets. I agree it's not likely, though. I think Hama just tended to use the garden-variety "Infantryman" (MOS 11B) as the catch-all basic MOS for the Joes he wasn't really sure what to make of when he got the pre-production designs, and just went with that for Budo. There are just way too many conceptual leaps to make when trying to justify the existence of someone outfitted as a pre-industrial warrior in a modern military organization, so he probably just went with the default "go-to" MOS. |
04-28-2011, 01:20 PM | #15992 |
Forever Ronin
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fayetteville, NC
Posts: 979
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1. Yes, Jesso was an American; (glad you went there Oliver sir,) but then SO WAS SE. UNLIKE SE, he was raised with, and trained to use a sword HIS WHOLE LIFE, so it was a BIT More than just a 'hobby' to him. If I recall correctly, wasn't it mentioned in CLASSIFIED's filecard that SE was a LRRP in the war, BEFORE he was ever Introduced to 'the art'? BIG difference.
2. Some Samurai clans also took up the use of firearms, the second the first musket was introduced to Japan due to Western influence; so it made PERFECT sense for Budo to be familiar with firearms. Btw, some of those ornately carved musket rifles they have in MUSEUMS over there are Stunningly beautiful. 3. 'B List?' Please. SE got more play & attention, cuz he was more Visually stimulating & mysterious; not to mention, NINJAS were in. It got to a point where they wanted to make Everyone one: Firefly, Zartan, etc. How Many Joes shouldv got more play but took a backseat to THE NINJA, both in the comics, & in their figs being made? HOW MANY? |
04-28-2011, 01:46 PM | #15993 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
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1600 pages gents.
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04-28-2011, 02:08 PM | #15994 |
Forever Ronin
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fayetteville, NC
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I Love this thread!
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04-28-2011, 05:05 PM | #15995 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: May 2007
Location: England
Posts: 1,230
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Quote:
Well, I hear what you're saying, but the comic goes to an awful lot of trouble to talk about Snake-Eyes' peerless prowess with a sword. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not an expert on "ninjas" and I know next to nothing about "samurai"... but I do know the Joe continuity. Nobody beats Snake-Eyes with a sword, especially not some "C-List" Joe like Budo.
Quote:
1. Yes, Jesso was an American; (glad you went there Oliver sir,) but then SO WAS SE. UNLIKE SE, he was raised with, and trained to use a sword HIS WHOLE LIFE, so it was a BIT More than just a 'hobby' to him. If I recall correctly, wasn't it mentioned in CLASSIFIED's filecard that SE was a LRRP in the war, BEFORE he was ever Introduced to 'the art'? BIG difference.
I should add that once the fundamentals are known, it probably comes down to thinking time & training time to actually try to move towards mastery, and in this case I suppose SE is ahead with both more training and thinking time due to simply being older than Budo (and having learned earlier chronologically). Of course if we want to compare historically accurate Ninja and Samurai (in so much as we know anything much about Ninja) we could consider the historical background of the Samurai which indicates that they were not all master swordsmen, but just good enough to get by (or not). With this sort of background, whether SE is a Ninja or just any other type of martial artist is pretty much immaterial, he is quite simply portrayed as being very good, and especially good with a blade. We don't see anything showing that Budo is particularly good, but we presume that he must be reasonable to get away with wearing Samurai armour in the field. Quote:
3. 'B List?' Please. SE got more play & attention, cuz he was more Visually stimulating & mysterious; not to mention, NINJAS were in. It got to a point where they wanted to make Everyone one: Firefly, Zartan, etc. How Many Joes shouldv got more play but took a backseat to THE NINJA, both in the comics, & in their figs being made?
HOW MANY? Last edited by lardman; 04-28-2011 at 05:08 PM.. |
04-28-2011, 05:56 PM | #15996 |
Forever Ronin
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fayetteville, NC
Posts: 979
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(sigh...) thank God it's My Joeverse then...
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04-28-2011, 06:38 PM | #15997 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: May 2007
Location: England
Posts: 1,230
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04-29-2011, 12:07 AM | #15998 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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No Doubt Neuspeaq. We all have a character we go a little ga-ga over. Gung-Ho and the Twins are my favorite, but Skullbuster and Interrogator, and Mercer and Claymore are my Fanboy Favorites. I nearly crapped my pants when they revealed Claymore as this years Convention set.
BTW Have you seen Zulu's rendition of Budo. Changed my mind. Congrats Troy. It's sort of like having your 4th child at this point, but impressive nontheless. Wait till we get to 2000!!
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04-29-2011, 01:38 AM | #15999 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Quote:
1. Yes, Jesso was an American; (glad you went there Oliver sir,) but then SO WAS SE. UNLIKE SE, he was raised with, and trained to use a sword HIS WHOLE LIFE, so it was a BIT More than just a 'hobby' to him. If I recall correctly, wasn't it mentioned in CLASSIFIED's filecard that SE was a LRRP in the war, BEFORE he was ever Introduced to 'the art'? BIG difference.
2. Some Samurai clans also took up the use of firearms, the second the first musket was introduced to Japan due to Western influence; so it made PERFECT sense for Budo to be familiar with firearms. Btw, some of those ornately carved musket rifles they have in MUSEUMS over there are Stunningly beautiful. 3. 'B List?' Please. SE got more play & attention, cuz he was more Visually stimulating & mysterious; not to mention, NINJAS were in. It got to a point where they wanted to make Everyone one: Firefly, Zartan, etc. How Many Joes shouldv got more play but took a backseat to THE NINJA, both in the comics, & in their figs being made? HOW MANY? 2. Sure. No reason why a Samurai wouldn't make a good Infantryman. My point is only that I just don't agree that Budo would look down his nose at a Ninja for being "stealthy/Sneaky". Budo is a trained Infantryman - like every Infantryman, he understands the value of Cover/Concealment. 3. Whatever the reason Snake-Eyes got all the attention is not the point. A-List characters are simply the characters that got the most coverage and appeared in the most stories with the most dialog. Stalker, Duke, Flint, Scarlett, Lady Jaye, etc... all those characters are A-Listers... and Snake-Eyes' story, as Hama has said, IS the story of ARAH. Budo just wasn't a real impact player in the comic (let alone the cartoon). There are a lot of characters that I really like that are obscure: Claymore, Freefall, Bullhorn, Blizzard, Grid-Iron, Tracker, etc. But just because I think they're awesome doesn't make them A-listers in any continuity except my own. Heck, Budo doesn't even show up a little bit like Low-Light, or Dial-Tone, or Dusty. He is practically a non-entity. We're also not told if he's got any other military qualifications. We can assume he's Airborne qualified, but is he Ranger qualified? Is he Air Assault qualified? We don't know... there's no evidence to support any "official" classification other than Airborne Infantryman. So, I get that you like Budo. He was always a cool/interesting figure, but when we talk about comparing him to Snake-Eyes... well, Budo's just not in the same league. Heck, he's not even playing the same sport. I've certainly got issues/annoyances with Snake-Eyes, but at the end of the day, SE will always be one of the most (if not THE most) lethal characters in Joe or Cobra. Obviously there are certain "subject matter experts" that are more lethal in their areas: Torpedo as a SEAL, Low-Light as a Sniper, Chuckles as an Intel Operative, Snowjob as an Artic Sharp Shooter, etc. But on the whole, No one is more lethal than Snake-Eyes... with a Sword, hand-to-hand, or as a Commando/Special Operator.
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04-29-2011, 01:54 AM | #16000 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Quote:
There's no question that Snake-Eyes is the best overall/all-around martial artist in the GI Joe universe, but even Hama made it clear that he wasn't the best at every single aspect of the martial arts. IIRC, the Soft Master said that even though SE was a better and more well-rounded ninja and martial artist than Storm-Shadow, SS was far and away better with thrown projectiles (shuriken and throwing knives) and archery. So I don't think it's unreasonable to think that Budo might be better at kenjutsu than Snake-Eyes (not only do I find the idea not unreasonable, I think it makes perfect sense). It's his entire focus, after all. It's sort of the same way that, say, Bazooka is likely a better long-distance shot than Stalker is with a man-portable anti-tank weapon, but that doesn't necessarily say anything one way or another about Bazooka's overall soldier skills compared to Stalker's. Last edited by zuludelta; 04-29-2011 at 01:59 AM.. |
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