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04-14-2011, 02:53 AM | #15781 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
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Yeah, the "core idea" of GI Joe still works best as an Army-centric organization, I think, just because they seem to do mostly infantry stuff. But the occasional Marine and SEAL augmentee works out okay (think of them as senior NCO or CWO amphibious warfare/jungle warfare advisors).
I think where it really started breaking down was the introduction of all the fixed-wing aircraft (Skystriker)... after that, there was really no looking back and it was only a hop and skip away from the Joes having their own Nimitz-class aircraft carrier and Space Shuttle. But you know Hasbro had to expand the line to include other services (Cutter?) and specialties (I mean jeez, Barbecue?) and fixed-wing aircraft and all those other things. They couldn't keep putting out the same infantry-centric Army figures, or at least they didn't think it was a sustainable strategy. Would GI Joe have been as successful as it was throughout the 1980s if they'd kept to the Army-only theme of the original 1982 wave? Maybe, maybe not. The most popular Joes seem to be the Army types (Snake-Eyes, Duke, Flint) but I think it's telling that the far and away most popular one doesn't even look like a typical soldier (or marine, or sailor, or airman) at all. Past a certain point (I'd like to say it was 1987 or 1988), I think branch of service stopped mattering to the casual Joe fan. |
04-14-2011, 02:56 AM | #15782 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
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Quote:
A question for you guys, do any of you know of an online resource to look up real-world firearms by image rather than anme? I'm trying to connect my joes to real weapons and wikipedia is not the most effective way to do this if you don't already know what a gun is called.
Also, if you've seen a similar-looking weapon in a movie, video game, or TV show, you might be able to find out what it is by looking up the movie, video game, or TV show on the Internet Movie Firearms Database. The IMFDB site lists the firearms (with pictures), both real and fictional, that feature prominently in popular media. Last edited by zuludelta; 04-14-2011 at 03:02 AM.. |
04-14-2011, 03:20 AM | #15783 |
80's Civil Air Patrol Cdt
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Wichita, The Air Capital of the World
Posts: 678
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Don't get me wrong, I think more services being represented would be a great thing, but I'm just not reassigning certain Joes to other branches in my Joeverse.
But the rule has always been: Unless stated otherwise, the Joes are all from the U.S. Army. Just my opinoin, fellas. [Shortened for cellphone users...] If we are doing the snow trooper, desert trooper, the marine, the navy Seal, with abundance of Army then I dont see a reason to 'segregate' the 'lesser service joes' from the Army joes. Like Shipwreck and Gung-Ho under Captain Duke's A-Team and Wetsuit and Leatherneck in Captain Falcon's A-Team or even Torpedo as an XO (or as his stand gives him LT) of an integraded A-Team. But, How I have it now, I have... 2 ground style A-Teams, an Arctic/Desert Team, an Urban team, Sky Patrol team (6-'man' Sky Patrol and 6 'man' Special Tactics Team), Marine style A-Team, VBSS/SEAL Team, Delta 6 man team Color Guard 6-person team Helo 6 person team (UH-60 and 3 MH-6) Armor 6 person Team (Rhino and 3 Armadillo's) 3 person EOD team and a Command and Admin B-Team (Direct Combat ready) If I integrate the marines and sailors, no need for those units to exist. Also, I got a question? Is First Sergeant a [rank, paygrade, slot] that operates in Special Operations. I know Delta and Green Berets dont use that rank, but not sure about 75th Rangers, 4th Psyops, SOAR? If they dont, why would Duke be a FSGT in GI JOE? Since GI JOE 'mythos' is considered Special Operations and not regular army.
__________________
Cobra's got the Delta Station, They're plantin' cubes throughout creation. If we don't start RETALIATION, We're sunk and that's no bunk. -Roadblock, in Pyramid of Darkness miniseries. |
04-14-2011, 03:22 AM | #15784 |
Darth_Henning
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 21,174
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Quote:
It's not a gun-specific visual look-up dictionary, but the TinEye reverse image search service should help immensely with finding out the name of an unidentified weapon if you've got a picture of it that you grabbed off the 'net. It won't work with images that you scanned directly from an original analog "paper" source, of course (reverse image search only works with images that already exist somewhere else on the web).
Also, if you've seen a similar-looking weapon in a movie, video game, or TV show, you might be able to find out what it is by looking up the movie, video game, or TV show on the Internet Movie Firearms Database. The IMFDB site lists the firearms (with pictures), both real and fictional, that feature prominently in popular media. |
04-14-2011, 03:43 AM | #15785 |
EQ-Viper
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Is First Sergeant a [rank, paygrade, slot] that operates in Special Operations. I know Delta and Green Berets dont use that rank, but not sure about 75th Rangers, 4th Psyops, SOAR? If they dont, why would Duke be a FSGT in GI JOE? Since GI JOE 'mythos' is considered Special Operations and not regular army.
Special Forces (a.k.a. "Green Berets") companies don't normally have first sergeants because the most senior NCO in a company-sized SF unit is a sergeant major (an E-9), and he is called the "Company Sergeant Major" instead of "First Sergeant" (although unlike "First Sergeant," this is a billet, not a combination rank-billet that has its own insignia). This is because enlisted SF operators are almost always older than their non-SF SOCOM counterparts (the senior NCO of a Ranger company is an E-8 and is thus a first sergeant). The Company Sergeant Major's administrative responsibilities are roughly the same as the First Sergeant's, though. He holds a higher rank because in the SF Groups, everybody is that much older and experienced and of higher rank, so everybody is "transposed" a level or two below where they would be in a regular infantry organization. The 75th RR and SOAR companies (which are Special Operations organizations) do have first sergeants as the senior company NCOs. Keep in mind that there's a subtle but important distinction in the Army between Special Operations Forces (SOF) and Special Forces (SF). To wit: all SF organizations are SOF, but not all SOF are SF. So if you think of GI Joe as a company-sized SOF organization, it makes sense that their senior-most NCO is a first sergeant. Last edited by zuludelta; 04-14-2011 at 03:49 AM.. |
04-14-2011, 03:43 AM | #15786 |
80's Civil Air Patrol Cdt
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Quote:
Quote:
.... Yeah, the "core idea" of GI Joe still works best as an Army-centric organization, I think, just because they seem to do mostly infantry stuff. But the occasional Marine and SEAL augmentee works out okay (think of them as senior NCO or CWO amphibious warfare/jungle warfare advisors).
__________________
Cobra's got the Delta Station, They're plantin' cubes throughout creation. If we don't start RETALIATION, We're sunk and that's no bunk. -Roadblock, in Pyramid of Darkness miniseries. |
04-14-2011, 04:13 AM | #15787 |
EQ-Viper
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To follow up on my reply to takedown, here's more about SF, SOF, SW, etc...
The difference in how the Army defines SF and SOF can be a bit confusing, because most other countries and services do not make a distinction between SF and SOF. The official Department of Defense definition of SF is this: US Army forces organized, trained, and equipped to conduct special operations with an emphasis on unconventional warfare capabilities. The official definition of SOF on the other hand, is this: Those Active and Reserve Component forces of the Military Services designated by the Secretary of Defense and specifically organized, trained, and equipped to conduct and support special operations. The US Army Special Forces (SF) are a subset of the inter-service Special Operations Forces (SOF). Like all other SOF, SF are trained to conduct special operations. But only SF (and certain SEALs and Marines) are fully trained to conduct the unconventional warfare mission... they are required to speak multiple foreign languages and are preeminent military instructors (so that they can train indigenous guerrillas) as well as fighters. The US Navy also has a similarly confusing distinction: in the Navy "Special Operations" applies to EOD Divers (who are really underrated... not a lot of people know that all Navy EOD Divers are airborne-qualified and receive extensive bodyguard/protective services training) and Fleet Divers, and "Special Warfare" is applied to SEALs and SWCCs. And while the Navy calls their EOD Divers "Special Operations," USSOCOM doesn't consider them as being officially SOF (although many SEAL Teams will have one or two EOD Divers attached to a SEAL platoon). The Marines, for the longest time, refused to use the term "special operations forces" because their leadership felt that dividing marines into "regular" and "special" marines was insulting to marine tradition. They referred to all of their expeditionary elements as "special operations-capable," and of these, the most elite infantry units were the Force Recon Companies (think of the Force Recon Marine as a cross between a SEAL with less underwater demolitions training combined with a Ranger with less mountain training). They also had their version of SF, the little-known Marine Special Operations Advisor Group (MSOAG). It was only in the last 6 or 7 years that they contributed to Joint Special Operations Command by creating MARSOC (whose personnel were drawn from Force Recon and MSOAG). |
04-14-2011, 04:46 AM | #15788 |
EQ-Viper
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The best way to do this, in a way that follows real-world precedent, is to just pattern your organization after the UK's SAS (they're the acknowledged "gold standard" in counterterrorism, anyway). SAS Squadrons have a Mobility Troop (that drive specially customized 4WD vehicles and specialize in desert warfare), a Mountain Troop, an Air Troop (specialize in HALO/HAHO), and a Boat Troop (specialize in amphibious warfare).
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04-14-2011, 05:10 AM | #15789 |
80's Civil Air Patrol Cdt
Join Date: Nov 2009
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I'm sorry I just still cant see Duke as Top Shirt. I see Stalker as Top Shirt in Marvel and didnt see the need for Hama to create an additional one. That's why I went with the video mediums of Duke being the video version of Hawk (the commanding officer). Sunbow Duke wasnt really that 'old' to be in the Vietnam War. Tho I subconsciously say Captain instead of First Sergeant Hauser. Duke was finally given an even younger look and offically an officer at the turn of the century and beyond (even tho it they didnt change his filecard until ROC.) Spy Troops, Valor vs. Venom, Sigma 6, Rise of Cobra. But I guess that's Joe-verse.
__________________
Cobra's got the Delta Station, They're plantin' cubes throughout creation. If we don't start RETALIATION, We're sunk and that's no bunk. -Roadblock, in Pyramid of Darkness miniseries. |
04-14-2011, 06:09 AM | #15790 |
EQ-Viper
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Quote:
Given how heavily Hama invested in the Stalker character early on in the comics as a prominent NCO only for him to be abruptly supplanted by Duke, I tend to think that the decision to cast Duke as the team's top kick in the comics and filecards was a marketing synergy thing dreamt up by Hasbro meant to coincide with the character being the primary lead in the Sunbow cartoons. Duke's major appearances in the comics correlate with his cartoon appearances... once he stopped appearing as the regular lead in the cartoons (1986 onwards), Hama pretty much reverted to using Stalker in the "prominent senior NCO" role (remember the Borovia storyline in the comics?). |
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