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04-11-2011, 09:29 AM | #15681 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,235
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Semi Evil! A diluted 80/20 mix!
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04-11-2011, 10:19 AM | #15682 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,586
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Quote:
I've never been a fan of "chibi-fying" large vehicles just so they can be produced in the 1:18 scale. For instance, if the only way we can get an F-117 Nighthawk stealth fighter-based vehicle in the Joe line is via a highly disproportionate (and TBH, ugly) "midget" version of it, I'd rather skip it altogether. I know it's a minority opinion though, and most Joe fans would jump at the chance to buy Joe-branded real-world/cartoon/comics-based vehicles adapted in a similar manner. I bet that despite all the complaining you read about how the upcoming Cobra Black Dragon VTOL is, at most, one-fifth of its properly scaled size as seen on the Renegades TV show, the majority of guys here will probably still snap it up.
As I've said elsewhere, I think a smaller scaled line would be a lot of fun, but instead of competing directly with the current line, I think it might work best if done as a separate wargaming line or a tie in with the Transfomers somehow. |
04-11-2011, 10:31 AM | #15683 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,586
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Quote:
Part of what robbed the later Marvel issues of their momentum, I think was the paucity of interesting villains. By issue #101, most of the best villains had either gone over to the Joe side or had become independent parties who, if not exactly allied with the Joes, opposed Cobra and became de facto "heroes" (via the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" rule): Storm-Shadow (who became a reserve Joe "via osmosis" off-panel sometime before issue #90), Zartan (adopted the Blind Master identity at the end of issue #91), Destro (left Cobra in issue #57, started the Iron Grenadiers in issue #69, effected a hostile takeover of Cobra soon after the Cobra Civil War, quit the joint Iron Grenadiers-Cobra franchise at the end of issue #97), and the Baroness (quit Cobra at the end of issue #97). And the collapse of the Soviet Union and the spectre of communism also took away the Oktober Guard (the best non-Hama created Joe canon characters, IMO) from their role as "bad guys." By issue #101, the Guard were no longer sworn Joe enemies (and occasional begrudging Joe allies against Cobra), they were out-and-out partners with the Joes. Still interesting, mind you, but the dynamic didn't work as well, I think.
A strong cast of villains is just as important as a strong cast of heroes in trying to maintain a sense of on-going conflict, and I've always felt that losing Storm-Shadow, Zartan, Destro, the Baroness, and the Oktober Guard to the "good guys" was an unfortunate miscalculation on Hama's part. Sure, SS and the Baroness eventually returned to their evil ways before the series ended (via an almost literal deus ex machina: the Brainwave Scanner) but by then, for me, the damage had been done and I'd already moved on to other reading material (although I think Hama was more than ready to move on from GI Joe after writing the Benzheen War anyway, I think the monthly grind of having to appease the young fans, older readers, the editors, and Hasbro -- all four groups seemed to want different things at any given time -- eventually burnt him out on the property). Some of them in fact seemed like quite honorable adversaries who just happened to be on the other side - I'm thinking of the Chinese PLA Colonel in that 4 issue sstory arc, and the sympathetic NCO or junior officer (not the political officer) in the mission with Lightfoot and Mangler. Even the more decidedly ruthless of the opponents here were better strategists than most Cobra leaders, anticipating the Joes' actions - I mean look at the bad guys in that whole Borovia story arc, which spanned both ARAH and SM. |
04-11-2011, 10:57 AM | #15684 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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I loved Special Missions because the stories felt more "real". There was some moral ambiquity even with the Joes. They weren't always doing the "right" thing but what they were ordered to do.
And yes, the "villians" were so much better then Cobra alot of the time. I hated when Destro went all honorable and SS went all goody-goody. I think thats what gave rise to Firefly becoming the next ninja because Hama had no one else to use. Hama wrote himself into a corner making Zartan, Destro, Baroness into quasi-good guys because he no longer had the personalities in Cobra. So thats when he had to fix it with the brain wave scanner.
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04-11-2011, 12:05 PM | #15685 |
IG85 - Mortarman
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Sun Prairie, WI
Posts: 8,885
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Quote:
I loved Special Missions because the stories felt more "real". There was some moral ambiquity even with the Joes. They weren't always doing the "right" thing but what they were ordered to do.
And yes, the "villians" were so much better then Cobra alot of the time. I hated when Destro went all honorable and SS went all goody-goody. I think thats what gave rise to Firefly becoming the next ninja because Hama had no one else to use. Hama wrote himself into a corner making Zartan, Destro, Baroness into quasi-good guys because he no longer had the personalities in Cobra. So thats when he had to fix it with the brain wave scanner. Of course, you could take everything I said with a grain of salt considering that I'm biased (huge IG fan). |
04-11-2011, 12:10 PM | #15686 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,586
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With all those Cobra going over to Joe or become less affiliated with Cobra, we never saw a Joe go over to Cobra under Hama.
The obvious, or at least, most interesting, candidate for this would have been SE. |
04-11-2011, 12:15 PM | #15687 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,235
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The true difference I think between Destro and CC is that Destro is a rational leader and CC is a lunatic. That makes Destro a far more interesting and in a sense respectable opponent.
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04-11-2011, 12:24 PM | #15688 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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Quote:
I liked Destro on his own. I didn't like him as a quasi-good guy. Bad guys can be honorable and still be bad guys.
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Join the New England G.I. Joe Collector's Group: Battleforce New England Join the March of Cobra. Read the epic adventure on Kindle Worlds and visit the page to learn more. https://www.facebook.com/marchofcobra/ |
04-11-2011, 12:35 PM | #15689 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Quote:
I agree that underscale, disproportionate vehicles are nothing like a true 1/18 scale version, but I've come to accept that Hasbro will never release a Skystriker like the JSI F-14 Tomcat and certainly not a 1/18 aircraft carrier which would take up an entire garage!
Quote:
I think there's a difference between the chibifying of say the Skystriker or Rattler, and the chibifying of that F-117 like thing. I think if G.I.Joe had stayed a mostly infantry-with-light armor playline there would be less of this. But who can really complain about something like the Rattler or the Tomahawk, which are both large enough to feel big to a kid, and really have a lot of play value.
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To me though, that was what made Special Missions so great. And as a kid, it made me feel (undeservedly) smart, because I felt like I was learning something (no matter how caricatured) about real world politics and history and such (I loved the Chomo-Lungma story, and it blew my mind years after reading the comics to learn that it was basically a "kiddie version" of the CIA's failed and forgotten war in Tibet). Yeah. I only read the occasional issue or three of GI Joe during the later portion of the run, but I did get the feeling that Firefly was simply being used as a Storm-Shadow/Zartan stand-in since they were both unavailable as Cobra villains at the time. Last edited by zuludelta; 04-11-2011 at 12:38 PM.. |
04-11-2011, 12:44 PM | #15690 |
Slayer Designs Staff
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: cant spell USA
Posts: 10,167
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not to throw your discussion off topic but Hawk is a pilot right?
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