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02-22-2011, 06:53 PM | #15211 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Quote:
So if you want to preserve Bullhorn's FBI background and still reconcile it with his enlisted status in the filecard, you could plausibly argue that Bullhorn was an FBI police officer (the FBI-accredited and trained cops who guard FBI buildings), and not an FBI special agent. |
02-22-2011, 07:03 PM | #15212 |
Darth_Henning
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 21,174
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THanks Zulu, and Loose Cannon. That helps clear it up for me.
Very interesting. May look at what I was planning to do with Mace and Bullhorn knowing that. |
02-23-2011, 04:18 AM | #15213 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Zulu, that's a very fair point about Bullhorn. All you said is true, as far as I can tell.
Look the bottom line is this: Hasbro Screwed Up. Honestly, I imagine that their intention was to make him similar to Bullet-Proof (an Officer sort of "on loan" to the Joe Team from a federal Law Enforcement Agency). There's no doubt in my mind that Hasbro intended him to be an FBI Agent. But they screwed up his Rank on the file card. Certainly the Captain's bars on his collar and in the picture show that he was supposed to be an officer, and his Convention Card clearly says FBI. But an E-4? It just doesn't make any sense. If Bullhorn was FBI, he would probably be with their HRT... which is supposed to be like Delta Force for domestic problems. In some ways, He's even tougher as an FBI Agent than he would be as a Marine. Either way, there's evidence to support which ever theory the individual fan prefers... until we get to the Convention Card. The Club mentions FBI service "prior to enlistment", but that's just silly for all the reasons Zulu mentioned. I normally don't like giving my Joes HUGE promotions. Significantly changing their rank changes their character, in my opinion. For me, Flint is a WO-5, but he's still a Warrant Officer. Duke is a CSM, but he's still a senior NCO. I bumped Falcon to Captain, and Claymore to Major, but again, not big jumps. Moving Bull Horn (E-5 on his Convention Card) to Captain is just too big of a jump for my Joeverse. So, in keeping with the Convention card, I'm considering him a Former FBI HRT operative who joined the Marines - that's in honor of the ambiguity of his original card/rank. Take that Hasbro. For my Joeverse, he'll work with my Recon/Raider Marines and function as the team's SWAT/CQB specialist & Psy Ops expert.
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02-23-2011, 08:43 AM | #15214 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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Well Zulu that makes the most sense of all. I imagine all the Federal Agencies have their own police Forces and a few have even more elite police/SWAT type units.
I'm with you Oliver, I can't make him an officer either. But Zulu may have come up with the best compromise/explanation. With the Convention figure he will forever be FBI, and his Quantico training will be linked to his FBI career. I'm still on the fence with Hollow-Point as a Warrant Officer, or Cannonball for that matter. Red-Zone seems like an OK move to Warrant Officer since he really has no character besides the Filecard and he is listed as a Helicopter Pilot. Chuckles also makes good sense to be a Warrant Officer instead of just E-5. He comes across as too experienced to be just an E-5. Link Talbot as a Warrant Officer works for me. But he could be an Officer as well. Personally I've embraced the Lt. Torpedo Moniker and he leads the SEAL teams. so I can't have Link outrank Torpedo. Anyone making the move of Scarlett to WO or Lt? I moved her to Captain myself. One character I'm wondering about is this Steel Brigade Delta figure. Is he suppose to be the Steel Brigade Commander? Steel Brigade Commander has no rank listed so I don't know what rank he should be given. He is also listed as a Helicopter Pilot.
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02-23-2011, 12:16 PM | #15215 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,586
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The problem is that we take the file card info as canon, and try to make them make sense when lots of themnever really made sense. Combine that with the way these characters were portrayed in the comic and the cartoons and there's a whole mess of things to make sense of.
Today we're very conscious of there being various paralell G.I.Joe storylines and what have you (with all the comics, etc) but I'd argue that this has been going on all the time. I'm a Marvel comic fan and don't know the cartoons at all, but I get the clear sense that the cartoons and the comics really told very different stories and put different spins on the same characters. Of course, it is still fun to delve into file cards and figure out which of the Joes would have been SF, and who would have been a Ranger, etc. But I think we you recognise that lots of the filecards weren't quite right from the beginning - leaking false information deliberately, as a counter-intelligence measure perhaps ;) - it's OK for each of us to make our own sense of things in our own Joe universe. |
02-23-2011, 01:34 PM | #15216 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,235
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Quote:
The problem is that we take the file card info as canon, and try to make them make sense when lots of themnever really made sense. Combine that with the way these characters were portrayed in the comic and the cartoons and there's a whole mess of things to make sense of.
Today we're very conscious of there being various paralell G.I.Joe storylines and what have you (with all the comics, etc) but I'd argue that this has been going on all the time. I'm a Marvel comic fan and don't know the cartoons at all, but I get the clear sense that the cartoons and the comics really told very different stories and put different spins on the same characters. Of course, it is still fun to delve into file cards and figure out which of the Joes would have been SF, and who would have been a Ranger, etc. But I think we you recognise that lots of the filecards weren't quite right from the beginning - leaking false information deliberately, as a counter-intelligence measure perhaps ;) - it's OK for each of us to make our own sense of things in our own Joe universe. If I had to redo the 1982 file cards based on the characters' duties and backstories, I would revised the following: Hawk (O5) - a lower rank puts him closer to the action at the begining of Joe story with room for several promotions throughout the years. Steeler (E6) - tank commanders are typically staff sergeants, unless they are the platoon leaders or platoon sergeants. Stalker (E7) - he typically assumes the role of a squad leader, but equally makes a great platoon sergeant and a rank of SFC would better fit his 14 years of military service, including a tour in Vietnam in '68. Rock N Roll (E6) - I think he would be well suited as a Weapons Squad Leader. Snakes Eyes (E6) - like Stalker, Snake Eyes would probably be a SSG given his time in service, minus the few years he left the military to train in Japan. Scarlett (O2) - probably better suited as an officer of military intelligence. |
02-23-2011, 03:15 PM | #15217 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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Well figuring out the filecards is half the fun. But in the end it's your Joeverse. Still I like to steal others rationals since it may be better than mine.
Tanksmasher I like your upgrades. Not sure If I'll switch Steeler to enlisted yet, but Scarlett should be an Officer in my book. So what about Duke then? I'm just curious Tank. I've upgraded my Duke to an 0-4 Major, and use Jungle POC as CSM Savage.
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02-23-2011, 04:18 PM | #15218 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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I like the changes Tank. I agree that Steeler should be lower rank. Doesn't make sense him being that high.
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02-23-2011, 04:54 PM | #15219 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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I do agree that he'd make more sense as a WO than a sergeant, especially since he's repping the CID in a large-ish organization. Quote:
If I had to redo the 1982 file cards based on the characters' duties and backstories, I would revised the following:
Hawk (O5) - a lower rank puts him closer to the action at the begining of Joe story with room for several promotions throughout the years. Steeler (E6) - tank commanders are typically staff sergeants, unless they are the platoon leaders or platoon sergeants. Stalker (E7) - he typically assumes the role of a squad leader, but equally makes a great platoon sergeant and a rank of SFC would better fit his 14 years of military service, including a tour in Vietnam in '68. Rock N Roll (E6) - I think he would be well suited as a Weapons Squad Leader. Snakes Eyes (E6) - like Stalker, Snake Eyes would probably be a SSG given his time in service, minus the few years he left the military to train in Japan. Scarlett (O2) - probably better suited as an officer of military intelligence. Last edited by zuludelta; 02-23-2011 at 04:57 PM.. |
02-23-2011, 08:38 PM | #15220 |
I.O. SpecOps
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In a secret underground bunker.
Posts: 4,404
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Quote:
Those all make perfect sense in the context of working off of the original early 1980s setting and having to take into account their ages and such based on what we know about some of the characters' service history in Vietnam. I'd probably go a step further and "demote" Hawk to a major or even a captain to make him even more of a "boots on the ground" type and not just a desk driver. I'd always imagined that the original 1982-83 ARAH GI Joe concept worked best as a company-sized Army element.
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