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08-08-2010, 04:03 PM | #13981 |
80's Civil Air Patrol Cdt
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Wichita, The Air Capital of the World
Posts: 678
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Quote:
In the Shipwreck example, going through the training does make you a Navy Seal. Once you earn the Trident you're in. SEALs don't have a distinction like the Ranger's "tabbed" or "scrolled" situation. Back during the time of ARAH, SEALs had to come from certain source ratings (job fields). The jobs fields didn't really have anything to do with performing the job of a SEAL, but the SEALs had to stay current in their original job field to earn promotions. Now SEAL is a source rate by itself. You can enlist as a civilian and go straight into the SEAL training pipeline. With the exception of Delta, DEVGRU, and the Nightstalker, most of the Special Ops units have pre-enlistment contracts that promise you a slot as long as you keep passing the courses. So civilian to Special Ops isn't weird anymore. You'll just have to go through 1 to 2.5 years of training before your first deployment.
A group like Delta recruits from more experienced pool of candidates. They'll most likely get you the training you need in-house or at some civilian speciality school (evasive driving, lock-picking, rock climbing, etc.). In terms of how hard Joe School is, I'm torn. There's the issue with Repeater and Charbroil that seems similar to some of the stuff in G.I. Jane. There's also a issue with Scoop where Stalker training him on the ride to the insertion point( maybe a Special Missions issue). They talk about the dogtags in the bootlaces and having two bandages (one for the entrance wound, one for the exit wound). Scoop was pretty shaky in that mission. Would Wild Bill be an outight officer with his Army cargo fixed wing of a C-130 pilot? I mean he was a LRRP enlisted in Vietnam, became a Warrant Officer flew Helicopters, and then moved to fixed wing, could he be one of the exceptions as a 1st LT. Does it seem reasonable since he worked his way up from E-1?
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Cobra's got the Delta Station, They're plantin' cubes throughout creation. If we don't start RETALIATION, We're sunk and that's no bunk. -Roadblock, in Pyramid of Darkness miniseries. |
08-08-2010, 05:25 PM | #13982 |
I.O. SpecOps
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In a secret underground bunker.
Posts: 4,404
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Quote:
Yeah I was using the ARAH timeline. So green soldiers wouldn't be in a special ops unit, they would be part of an active military unit before becoming elite. Im just torn if I want the floor to be E-5 or E-6, and O-3 for officers.
Would Wild Bill be an outight officer with his Army cargo fixed wing of a C-130 pilot? I mean he was a LRRP enlisted in Vietnam, became a Warrant Officer flew Helicopters, and then moved to fixed wing, could he be one of the exceptions as a 1st LT. Does it seem reasonable since he worked his way up from E-1? For Will Bill, there have been Enlisted Pilot programs in the past. I think most have been shutdown now. Some were still active in the eighties. I'm not sure which services. Some of the later programs created Limited Duty Officers. They gained rank to perform a specific job. Zuludelta could better explain how they fit into the command structure. I think the toy designers intended G.I. Joe to be a younger force of high tech soldiers. Slipstream and Rampart fit the mold in later waves. Soldiers translating skill with video games to warfighting. Being a vet of a fairly low tech war, Hama went to what he knew when pulled in to write the backstory.
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Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery? http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-jo...r1s-b-s-t.html |
08-08-2010, 09:32 PM | #13983 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,235
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Actually it's a good topic to bring up and there was a question I wanted OB to ask Hama but don't know if he ever got around to it: What type and size of a unit did Hama envision the Joes? Even though they're later described as a Delta-esque force, they seem more like a separate brigade-size unit with armor companies and artillery batteries and with Hawk serving as the the commanding officer.
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"We make a stand now or there will be nobody left to go to the choppa!" --Major Alan "Dutch" Schaefer Last edited by Tanksmasher; 08-08-2010 at 09:34 PM.. |
08-08-2010, 10:58 PM | #13984 |
G.I.Joe medic
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Litchfield, ME
Posts: 3,170
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I seem to recall reading in Dick Marcinko's "Rogue Warrior" series that he had his men train with "professional" lock pick artists and second-story men to get experience in those skills that are needed but not taught in schools. From what I read in "Black Hawk Down", Delta usually recruits from the Rangers and SF. And as many of you have said, I don't imagine the Joes recruit straight out of Basic, unless there's a particular need. To use Lifeline and Shockwave as examples, they are both highly trained in their particular civillian fields before enlisting. At some point, whover does recuiting for the Joes might have said, "OK, you're a top notch medic/SWAT officer, respectively. We need your skills for the Joe team, but you still have to complete Basic, go through Airborne training, etc. Once you've done that, you become a Joe." I'm strictly thinking in terms of the LH/Marvel Joe-verse, not necessarily a "real" one like Zulu Delta's.
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08-08-2010, 11:11 PM | #13985 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,235
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Absolutely, the entire ranking system is messed up but Hama was shooting from the hip as he went. He probably never thought the comic or toyline would be as successful as it was. Look at Ambush! He's an E-3 and probably just because someone thought there were all these E-4s and E-5s and no E-3s. And Altitude being SMA--no way. Maybe CSM. And Stalker and SE should have started out as E-7s originally.
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08-08-2010, 11:24 PM | #13986 |
I.O. SpecOps
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In a secret underground bunker.
Posts: 4,404
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Quote:
Absolutely, the entire ranking system is messed up but Hama was shooting from the hip as he went. He probably never thought the comic or toyline would be as successful as it was. Look at Ambush! He's an E-3 and probably just because someone thought there were all these E-4s and E-5s and no E-3s. And Altitude being SMA--no way. Maybe CSM. And Stalker and SE should have started out as E-7s originally.
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Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery? http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-jo...r1s-b-s-t.html |
08-08-2010, 11:35 PM | #13987 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,235
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I agree. I like to think Stalker was probably a Shake & Bake Sgt when he arrives in Vietnam and that's why he was acting as a squad leader even though Tommy and SE had already done a tour together. So by 1982 Stalker certainly could have been an E-8 if he stayed in the Army the entire time.
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08-08-2010, 11:43 PM | #13988 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pulaski, VA
Posts: 738
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After finding the POC Ghost Hawk an idea popped into my head about how you guys who aren't fond of the Joes having an air force could use it. What if you use the Ghost Hawk as an amphibious vehical? In the cartoon they use is in a swamp in the Revenge of Cobra. And amphibious problay isn't the right term but I'm not sure what you would call a sea and air vehical.
Last edited by lespaul59; 08-08-2010 at 11:51 PM.. |
08-09-2010, 12:01 AM | #13989 |
80's Civil Air Patrol Cdt
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Wichita, The Air Capital of the World
Posts: 678
|
Quote:
I think there's a difference between Special Mission forces(Delta, DEVGRU, and 24th STS) and Special Ops forces (Special Forces, SEALs, PJs, CCTs, SWCCs, etc). Special Mission forces usually have been proven Special Operators. There's also a difference between the services. Army and Marine special operators are usually older on average than Navy and Air Force special operators.
So maybe understanding the difference between the two, might help me organize my force and their operation. Right now I have them set up to 12-person A-Teams. Theres just not enough medics, but I have at least one cross-trained medic per A-Team: Stalker, Falcon and Rigger (Airborne II- SFC Six) With the medics Doc, Lifeline, Stretcher, Talbot Link and Greenside. And I plan to supplement my Humvee/POC Vamp force. BIG LOTS! has recieved about 2 or 3 different styles with a few different paint schemes of Humvees for 15 bucks each.
__________________
Cobra's got the Delta Station, They're plantin' cubes throughout creation. If we don't start RETALIATION, We're sunk and that's no bunk. -Roadblock, in Pyramid of Darkness miniseries. Last edited by takedown; 08-09-2010 at 12:19 AM.. |
08-09-2010, 12:48 AM | #13990 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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I know Devil's Due gave a bunch of promotions, ie Beachhead as a E-9 (Which I love) as well as Stalker as an E-9. Recondo I think makes E-7, but there were still a few who were E-4s after all these years.
If anyone has that DDP order of battle comic with the Joe rank structure I'd be interested to see who still hadn't been promoted. I didn't bring mine with me. I think most pre 88 joes were promoted at least E-5 or higher. (Except Sci-Fi) All the O-13 we know were promoted based on the Marvel run, although I don't think Grand-Slam has ever reflected on his filecards higher than E-5. Flash just made his E-5 with ROC. I guess the Laser guys are all losers? (Grand-Slam is a E-7 in my verse)
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