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04-29-2010, 10:17 AM | #13001 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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Good stuff Oliver. More in depth then what could go on a card.
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04-29-2010, 12:15 PM | #13002 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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It's different across the services. The Marines have different categories for military occupational specialties:
As an illustration, let's look at a hypothetical Force Recon sergeant serving as a recon Marine in a FORECON company. This sergeant would have a PMOS of "Reconnaissance Man" (MOS 0321). He would also have an AMOS of "Rifleman" (MOS 0311), since one of the prerequisites for entering MOS 0321 is graduation from the School of Infantry, which by necessity qualifies a Marine as a Rifleman. Let's say that he's also Airborne qualified. He would then also hold the NMOS of "Reconnaissance Man, Parachute Qualified" (MOS 0323), an NMOS that requires the Marine to be qualified in MOS 0321 as a prerequisite (and by extension, MOS 0311). Maybe he's also trained in the operation of a rigid hull inflatable boat (RHIB). This entitles him to the FMOS "Rigid Raiding Craft Coxswain" (MOS 0314), a MOS that is open to any infantry occupational field Marine who graduates from the rigid raiding craft coxswain skills course or relevant OJT. The Air Force, Army, and Navy all have variations of the above categories using different service-specific names. The Navy and the Air Force don't use the term MOS at all, they call their occupational specialties "Ratings" and "Air Force Specialty Codes", respectively. The Navy's NEC (Navy Enlisted Classification) and the Army's ASI (Additional Skill Identifier) are roughly analogous to the USMC's NMOS in that all three are occupational field sub-specialty designators that require prerequisite qualification in a particular occupational specialty/specialties. The Army's SQI category is analogous to the USMC's FMOS and EMOS categories. I left out the MOS listings for reasons of brevity and clarity. Since I was already listing the relevant training schools the Joes attended, listing the MOS/Rating/AFSC separately would be redundant and take up what is already limited real estate in the file card. A distinction should be made between a Radio Operator/Radioman/Radio Telephone Operator and a Radio Operator-Maintainer. "Radioman" or "Radio Operator" or "Radio Telephone Operator" is not a MOS. It's a duty designator used in an organization's TOE (Table of Organization and Equipment). In an infantry company for example, the Radioman is almost always an infantryman (MOS 11B). It's just that his primary duty involves operating comm equipment and it requires little to no formal training in the use of communications equipment beyond what that soldier has already learned in basic training and infantry school. Radio Operator-Maintainer, on the other hand is a full-fledged MOS. It requires a 3 month AIT. Radio Operator-Maintainers' skills in electronics and commo maintenance are too valuable (and too specific) for them to be used simply as front line radio operators in a combat arms context. You'll usually find these guys in network/commo support companies or in headquarters companies as part of a commo section or platoon. |
04-29-2010, 12:20 PM | #13003 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
|
Only crap Z... I got confused with just the part about the Marine.
Holy crap that's like a maze to get through...
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04-29-2010, 12:38 PM | #13004 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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One of the reasons I opted to stop listing MOSs/Ratings/AFSCs in my filecard project is the obfuscation generated by the different methods of labeling qualification categories used by the services. Much easier and straightforward for the casual/non-military reader to just read a list of the relevant training schools attended by a particular Joe and then I just give the Joe a concise and practical (non-MOS) duty designator like the ones used in TOEs.
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04-29-2010, 12:43 PM | #13005 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
|
Yeah, that makes much more sense.
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04-29-2010, 01:39 PM | #13006 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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I've always loved the MOS listings on the filecards. After a while I started realizing nobody has two MOSs. But after looking into ASI and SQI for the Army I really thought maybe these Secondary MOS could be hidden in there. I feel like just listing the schools carries more weight, but just for the sake of accurracy I started wondering, "well how many could these guys get?" Particularly the Joes who are all Airborne Qualified.
Furthermore where would you even see these written down on documents? transfer papers? Or on every official form an Army guy has to fill out? Wouldn't you get extra pay for completing Air Assualt school? I mean then it may be very important to have your ASI and SQI show up next to your MOS, or on any other CMF documents you need to have processed. Like Payroll. (That wouldn't be a bad codename for the Joe Finance guy) Like my hypothetical Recoil When he fills out his timesheet or request for RnR. He most likely would have to list himself as at least Infantry 11B2. 2 for Sergeant E-5. I don't even want to think about how the Navy does theirs. Hey welcome back Tyroc! Missed you buddy.
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Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
04-29-2010, 02:24 PM | #13007 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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Quote:
A distinction should be made between a Radio Operator/Radioman/Radio Telephone Operator and a Radio Operator-Maintainer. "Radioman" or "Radio Operator" or "Radio Telephone Operator" is not a MOS. It's a duty designator used in an organization's TOE (Table of Organization and Equipment). In an infantry company for example, the Radioman is almost always an infantryman (MOS 11B). It's just that his primary duty involves operating comm equipment and it requires little to no formal training in the use of communications equipment beyond what that soldier has already learned in basic training and infantry school. Radio Operator-Maintainer, on the other hand is a full-fledged MOS. It requires a 3 month AIT. Radio Operator-Maintainers' skills in electronics and commo maintenance are too valuable (and too specific) for them to be used simply as front line radio operators in a combat arms context. You'll usually find these guys in network/commo support companies or in headquarters companies as part of a commo section or platoon. This brings up a good point though. Wouldn't the Joe Radio guys be the more highly trained bunch? I'm figuring all the Joes can operate radios, but to have it listed on your filecard, must mean your something special. A Radio Operator Maintainer (25C) can also go to Airborne SChool and any other school. I just can't say how often that happens or is needed. OK so Recoil; and Dee-Jay are listed as RTO so these guys act more like Infantry same with Sneak Peek, whose SMS is Radio Telecommunications. Although Dee-Jay as the Comm-Tech Trooper for BF2000 apparently has mad skills for Radio maintenance. Dial-Tone MOS is also Radio telecommunications. But sometimes these "communications specialists." sort of seems like Signal Corps to me. Same with Microwave technicians. Scoop and Blaster. Airwave is Audible Frequency Specialist? Don't know what that is but as an E-8 he'd probably be a 25X Senior Signal Sgt anyway. "He can improvise an antenna out of wire fence.." I don't know what to make of Topside as a Telecommunications Specialist. (NAVY) And Whiteout is just plain lazy = Communications. Hi-Tech; Sparks; Sgt Hacker and even Hard Drive are more behind the scenes types anyway. Good old Breaker at least went to "Signal School" Oddly he is the only Joe who doesn't have a SMS. (Well his Stars and Stripes version has him with Computer Technology as his SMS.)
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Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
04-29-2010, 02:36 PM | #13008 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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I see the Joe guys as being Combat Controllers and the Radio Operators and Maintainers but trained with more frontline capabilities.
Think Tyrese Gibson's character in Transformers.
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04-29-2010, 04:44 PM | #13009 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Quote:
A complete rundown of a military service man's MOS/Rating/AFSC qualifications and any of the formal training schools and courses they've attended is listed on their DD 214 form which a soldier/marine/sailor/airman or his/her immediate family can request once they get out of the military. On just about any other HR document though, the information listed is usually incomplete and only includes details that are pertinent to that document. |
04-29-2010, 06:40 PM | #13010 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: May 2007
Location: England
Posts: 1,230
|
re the discussion about MOSes and whether people have secondary MOSes; in e.g. the SAS, soldiers in a squadron are split into "troops" (i.e. air, boat, mountain, mobility) which might provide a primary MOS (I imagine) and within each 4 man "patrol" each member will have a primary specialisation and normally a secondary too (to provide overlap) - e.g. comms, medic, demo, FAC, linguist.
I should say that this is not an authoratitive list (I just quickly grabbed the names of the specialisms from the interweb), but tallies with what I've read. As an aside, I read that non-officers joining the SAS lose their rank and revert to being a "trooper", what happens in the US "Special Forces" (in my British view of the word, i.e. SEALs, Delta, Rangers and Green Berets too ;) ? Perhaps this would explain why some members of GI Joe have low ranks but reasonable experience - they've only just joined and have yet to be promoted...? |
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