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02-20-2010, 01:57 AM | #11701 |
G.I.Joe medic
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Litchfield, ME
Posts: 3,169
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Yeah, Oliver, it was civilian training. I think in one book they flew in a P-3, but I can't remember which one it was right now. But it definitely wasn't fighter pilot training.
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02-20-2010, 07:12 AM | #11702 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: May 2007
Location: England
Posts: 1,230
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Then again it's not much use trying to extract your team by borrowing a handy jet fighter, but it would be useful to be multi-engine qualified so you could borrow a small transport aircraft.
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02-20-2010, 08:55 AM | #11703 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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Quote:
Grunt as an Officer?
He would probably have gone combat Engineers or gone back to the Infantry. He would have probably opted to get his Ranger Tab. I don't see him going Combat Support or Combat Service Support. He's an Infantryman. He might have gone Engineers and gotten command of a Sapper Platoon or something. Those Combat Engineers are pretty tough and they work hand in hand with the Infantry, and Combat Engineer officers can still go to Ranger School. Quote:
The SF Warrant Officer was formalised in the early 1980s. The following document gives a pretty thorough historical background on the specialisation:
http://www.usawoa.org/woheritage/Hist_SF_WO.pdf The short summary is basically this: Special Forces needed detachment XOs, but finding lieutenants that had the necessary experience to serve as SF executive officers was hard. Most infantry lieutenants were too young and inexperienced to serve meaningfully in the SF XO role. Special Operations Command initially floated the idea of creating a limited-duty officer program (similar to what the Navy and the Marines have) exclusively for senior SF NCOs, but eventually settled on working in these NCOs within existing warrant officer structure. Quote:
Yeah, the General and the Major were both from 7th group. The General told that story and the Major just laughed and blushed a little. Later we found out that the Major had been the Captain (Team Leader) that had loaned out his captain's bars to his XO. The General had been their Colonel at the time.
They had not planned on telling the Colonel what they had done, but word got around. The Colonel called them into his office and they thought they were going to get chewed out for decieving a high ranking officer of an allied country. The colonel just lauged and said to the Warrant Officer, "Chief, if it'll do you any good, you can trade with me next time." We all laughed pretty hard. You always laugh when a general tells a joke, but that time we weren't just being polite. Thanks guys. You came through. I guess I haven't really sold myself on Grunt being an officer. Still I have to wonder why did he leave in the first place? He's the only one to do so. Did he get past over for promotion, or not included in enough missions since he wasn't Ranger Qualified? And then why does he come back? It seems like the Warrant Officer is the guy who likes being in charge, but must have a different level of respoinsiblity. He's higher than the Senior Sgt, but may have as much training. I like the idea of him being the Engineer Officer, or some other character to fill that role. The other thing why is Falcon a LT? |
02-20-2010, 09:53 AM | #11704 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Quote:
The only explanation I can think of is that Hama was using pre-1981 information/reference material when he wrote Falcon's filecard (before the "hard cap" restricting SF entry to captains was instituted). There are a number of instances in the filecards where you can tell Hama's age/Vietnam War-era military background... for example, in Lady Jaye's original 1985 filecard, he writes that she graduated from intelligence school in Ft. Holabird, but the intelligence school in Holabird was decommissioned in 1971(!). Last edited by zuludelta; 02-20-2010 at 10:06 AM.. |
02-20-2010, 10:34 AM | #11705 |
G.I.Joe medic
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Litchfield, ME
Posts: 3,169
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Falcon's another one whose filecard is a bit off. He's an officer, but his SMS is medic. And we know he's not a doctor. I wonder if he was supposed to be a mustang.
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02-20-2010, 11:15 AM | #11706 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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The way I rationalised it in my filecard project was to make him a graduate of the Tactical Combat Casualty Care Course. It's a fairly new short (3 to 5 days) course open to all personnel regardless of rank. It basically gives the student basic pre-hospital trauma care skills so that they can serve as quasi-medics on the battlefield in a pinch (the skills taught bridge the gap between the basic first aid soldiers learn in basic training and the full-on MOS 68W course that aspiring medics take).
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02-20-2010, 11:51 AM | #11707 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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Then there is Rapid-Fire who was first enlisted and then goes to West Point. (One of the most over the top filecards)
I guess when they wrote the cards, Falcon as a Lt was still the norm for XO's but he should have been a Captain by the time of joining. There shouldn't be any Lts or E-3 in the Joes. What is somewhat amazing is the Warrant Officer program in the Special Forces had to be but 3 or 4 years old at best when Flint joins the Joes. Where did Larry or Ron come up with Flint? At the time even though his Card said E-6 you knew he was at least WO-1 which is higher. There were few Joe Infantry Officers otherwise. Well none actually. Torpedo was Higher ranking, but the rest were Pilots of some kind. So Flint was really XO. Claymore was the first Infantry officer to come along, and most people missed him I'm sure. (I didn't and that's why I love him 1986) Warrant Officer pay is equal to their Commissioned officer equivalent, so there must be a view of some equality there. Like CW-4 gets paid the same as a Major. |
02-20-2010, 12:23 PM | #11708 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Quote:
Then there is Rapid-Fire who was first enlisted and then goes to West Point. (One of the most over the top filecards)
I guess when they wrote the cards, Falcon as a Lt was still the norm for XO's but he should have been a Captain by the time of joining. There shouldn't be any Lts or E-3 in the Joes. What is somewhat amazing is the Warrant Officer program in the Special Forces had to be but 3 or 4 years old at best when Flint joins the Joes. Where did Larry or Ron come up with Flint? At the time even though his Card said E-6 you knew he was at least WO-1 which is higher. There were few Joe Infantry Officers otherwise. Well none actually. Torpedo was Higher ranking, but the rest were Pilots of some kind. So Flint was really XO. Claymore was the first Infantry officer to come along, and most people missed him I'm sure. (I didn't and that's why I love him 1986) Warrant Officer pay is equal to their Commissioned officer equivalent, so there must be a view of some equality there. Like CW-4 gets paid the same as a Major. Warrants are Technical experts. They're technically under LT's, but everyone understands they're experts in their field and thier opinions and advice are highly valued. Let's take pilots for example. An Officer who becomes a pilot will fly for a few years, but by the time he's a senior Captain, he's pretty much done. He flies a desk at that point. He'll continue to fly enough to keep his wings current, but that's about it. A Warrant Officer, on the other hand, will continue to fly for his whole career... that's his job: he's a technical expert at flying. SF is the same way. A Captain runs a team and for a few years he's out leading a team. But by the time he makes Major, he's going to be behind a desk more than out in the field. That's just the way it works. The Warrant Officer stays with the A-Team. His job is being a technical expert at leading an SF Team... he'll do it for his whole career. Part of his job will be to teach/coach the new Captains. So why would Flint, a man with a Masters Degree from Oxford University, enlist and opt to become a Warrant Officer? Probably because he wanted to spend his entire career with an SF Team. SF Warrant: You get to hang out with Officers becuase they accept you as one of their own and get paid like an Officer. You get to hang out with NCO's because you used to be one and they accept you as one of their own. And you get to do the job you love for your whole career. Warrants are really respected. A Chief Warrant Officer 5 is respected like a Sgt Major.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
02-20-2010, 05:45 PM | #11709 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Joe HQ
Posts: 1,716
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You can say Falcon was an enlisted medic before he got a commission. Not sure if this conflicts with any Joe writings out there. I think in the past you had to be an e-4 or e-5 before trying out for SF. If that's the case he could have enlisted as a medic until he was qualified for SF.
Last edited by Mazinger; 02-20-2010 at 05:50 PM.. |
02-20-2010, 05:57 PM | #11710 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Quote:
Still, maybe because of how youthful (relatively speaking) his character has been portrayed in the comics and in the cartoons, I've always thought of him as either an ROTC or high school-to-West Point grad rather than a former enlisted man who went through OCS. I suppose he could also be one of the few active-duty enlisted men who qualify for a West Point slot, but you'd expect something like that to be mentioned in his filecard (รก la Super Trooper). |
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