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02-09-2010, 12:48 AM | #11381 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,235
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Quote:
I'm begining to think Hama "backdoored" the Vietnam angle. The first 3 years Duke (the character Hasbro force on Hama) is the only character whose fliecard mentions Vietnam by name. Wild Bill and Spirit have the euphemism "South East Asia". The main 3 (Stalker, Snake-eyes and Storm Shadow) don't mention it all. The Vietnam story may have been ARAH's first retcon.
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02-09-2010, 12:53 AM | #11382 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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Shipwreck had some references to Southeast Asia as well.
You could be right Razor. Bellomo's book mentions Duke's filecard making him a "much older veteran" with it's references to Viet Nam. And Hama said that spot of Master Sargeant had been missing. So it sounds like Duke was meant to be kind of like Sam Elliot's Master Sargeant in We Were Soldiers. Interestingly enough Hasbro originally wanted Duke to be a Major (looks like they finally got their wish with Duke in RoC, lol) but Hama said it would be weird for a much older soldier (Duke) to be serving under a younger Colonel (Hawk).
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02-09-2010, 12:57 AM | #11383 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Quote:
"... went Special Forces in 1963 and did his first tour in the Republic of South Vietnam... in the boonies working with Montagnard tribesmen." Apparently, Hasbro wanted Duke to be younger (they changed the year of his transfer to SF from 1963 in Hama's original text to 1969 in the production text). Edit: looks like Troy beat me to it |
02-09-2010, 12:59 AM | #11384 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,235
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Quote:
I can't remember his name now, but there was an American commander who did exactly what Reed is so critical of (the use of SF as conventional infantry assets) a couple of years back in Iraq. He was using SF for routine infantry patrols and as personal bodyguards. I remember there was a minor flap in the military community over that... the thing was, if an SF soldier gets shot by an indig sniper in the course of routine patrolling or acting as a bullet-stopper, that's what, anywhere from half a million to a million dollars worth of training lost. And it's not as if the SF soldier would able to use his highly coveted specialised skills to great effect as a patrolman or bodyguard. A similarly tenured regular infantryman would probably perform just as well as an SF-qualified soldier when it comes to routine patrol/bullet-stopper duties.
However, I do believe SF candidates are more motivated and a bit sharper than the average recruit out of basic but they're really just NCOs who teach others how to fight. They are fighters too, but that's not their primary purpose. But maybe this has changed. Does it really cost a half million dollars to train one SF individual? Last edited by Tanksmasher; 02-09-2010 at 01:03 AM.. |
02-09-2010, 01:07 AM | #11385 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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I don't know how true the figure is, but it's always been thrown around as the ballpark figure... it probably stems from the common notion that SF/SOF are 10 times more valuable than conventional personnel... back in the 1980s, I think a year's worth of infantry training cost about $50000, once you figure in the costs of weapons, ammunition, food, uniforms, fuel, paying the instructors, etc., so 50 grand x 10 = half a mil.
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02-09-2010, 01:12 AM | #11386 |
I.O. SpecOps
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In a secret underground bunker.
Posts: 4,404
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Quote:
Now I'm not going to stomp on the SF but the training they receive doesn't really make them that superior. I mean their primary role is that of an instructor--to go into areas and train ethnic minorities or resistance groups to fight a guerilla war against their own countrymen. They're teachers first, fighters second. Now in Vietnam they often stepped outside the boundaries and operated dangerous recon missions and led Hatchet Force companies and Mobile Strike Forces, but they're really not that different than NCOs who haved learned the same communications, demolitions, heavy weaponry, intelligence or medical skills as SF. In fact, originally SF soldiers had the same MOS as regular infantryman who were medics or RTOs, etc.
However, I do believe SF candidates are more motivated and a bit sharper than the average recruit out of basic but they're really just NCOs who teach others how to fight. They are fighters too, but that's not their primary purpose. But maybe this has changed. Does it really cost a half million dollars to train one SF individual?
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02-09-2010, 07:30 PM | #11387 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
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It can, if that individual is SCUBA and HALO trained. Also medical sergeants(sp?) take a year or more longer than the rest of the specialities. As to being special. The main thing is being able to think outside the box and not being a xenophobe. There are lot of things that have to be done(or not done) to keep from offending the people you're trying to train. Many of these things are just too bizarre for many raised in US or other developed nations.
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02-09-2010, 07:52 PM | #11388 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Quote:
That's the type of thing an SF operator would have to be sharp enough to determine... the Montagnards, to a typical Western observer, would look awfully backward and stupid, but knowledge of their environment, language, culture, and lifestyle would reveal that they possess the same capacity for learning as "civilized" peoples. Last edited by zuludelta; 02-09-2010 at 07:56 PM.. |
02-09-2010, 08:24 PM | #11389 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Quote:
Oliver, you have Siberian Huskies? I love those, always wanted one.
Welcome to winter in the North East Oliver, lol But normally we don't get 2 feet at once. What sucks for you guys down there is that you don't get storms like this often and don't have the ability to handle it like we would. Hope alls going well for you in the blizzard. Windspeed's a good name for a Spec Ops Weather Technician. Air Force Special Operations Weather Technician - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia They're about 8 months old... lots of fun, and lots of energy. They're loving all the snow. Honesly, if I had a sled, they would be happy to pull it. "Windspeed" is an awesome codename. I might have to use that. This Winter is a LOT worse than anything I've ever seen... I'm a little homesick for the mild winters of Mississippi.
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02-09-2010, 09:35 PM | #11390 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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I'm going to go on record about the SF guys, but let me say first: I am NOT a Green Beret, but I have worked with several.
They're worth every penny it costs to train them, and they are as deadly of a fighting force as any Unit that America has. Teaching is part of what they do, but it's their responsibility because, traditionally, they're the smartest of the Spec Ops. They're ASVAB qualifications are higher than most of the others. Basically, if I'm being held hostage somewhere, or I need to be rescued, I hope they send SF. They would be my very first choice after Delta. Just being around those guys is awe inspiring. They are Warriors to the core, and smart as a whip. I've seen them train first hand. It would be hard to be more impressed.
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