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01-11-2010, 03:04 PM | #11021 |
80's Civil Air Patrol Cdt
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Wichita, The Air Capital of the World
Posts: 678
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Quote:
This is so strange. Battlefield Commission in '67? That means Duke would have at least been an E6 by then to have been offered a commission to Major, which also means he would have joined the army a few years before the enlistment of 1967 that Hama wrote. And that means he would have stayed a Major for 13 years until his appearance with GI Joe in 1983.
I'm glad Hama, who has a military background, decided to revise this and had him refuse the commission. I figured Duke left Nam as an E6 and was promoted to First Sgt right before joining the Joes in 1983.
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Cobra's got the Delta Station, They're plantin' cubes throughout creation. If we don't start RETALIATION, We're sunk and that's no bunk. -Roadblock, in Pyramid of Darkness miniseries. |
01-12-2010, 10:12 AM | #11022 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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I bet they didn't really count on the Vietnam connection causing any problems at first. But as the characters aged 1967 seemed farther away. I think Hama wanted those Joes with the most real experience to be in the military during the Tet Offensive.
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01-12-2010, 10:33 AM | #11023 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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Quote:
Short term, it was great, gave them a place in reality and made the whole thing seem that much more real. I wonder if Hasbro and Hama would know that these particular Joes would be around 25+ years later? We know they always intended to replace/retire the Joes and put newer ones in their place. So with that in mind, the 'Nam connection wouldn't have been out of place as those older soldiers retired and newer ones took their place. I think that was the original idea, but Hasbro just kept the same characters going, making the 'Nam connections seem weird.
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01-12-2010, 12:05 PM | #11024 |
G.I.Joe medic
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Litchfield, ME
Posts: 3,170
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I think your points are well taken, Troy. It was great to have 'nam as a reference in the early '80s, but it became less plausible as time went on. Snake Eyes would be in his 60's by now.
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01-12-2010, 12:28 PM | #11025 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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My thoughts exactly. I bet Hama never dreamed it would go on for as long as it did. Even still in 1994 when the series ended with 155 Duke could have still only been early 50s. Snake-Eyes and Stalker would seem real old doing what they were doing in their late 40's even 50s? Although you sort of assume time slows down a bit so it was more like 89 instead of 94 in comic years.
I wonder about the replacing of guys though. In the beginning there were no V2 of anyone. Not really until Battle Corps but by then they were just churning out the same product. I wonder if Hama wanted to get rid of any of the other main characters? You figure with Special Missions, (which was so much better and a greater assortment of the old and the new guys besides Snake-Eyes) maybe Hama was doing what he wanted to do. He was just obligated to crank out all the ninja craptasticness in the main series.(Both contractually and creatively) Both comics had plenty of the new toys on display on the pages, but SM seemed more about the characters than the Main Series. But SMissions started in 87ish and was over before the main series really started going downhill so by 89 maybe Hama just ran out of steam? |
01-12-2010, 02:05 PM | #11026 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,235
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Quote:
I take his battlefield commission meaning his commission was to 2nd Lieutenant, and that his Current Rank is Major. That he worked his way up. But then again its always tough trying to tell a story about experienced soldiers, when the word 'experienced' means in battle and the last 'battle' was about a decade ago. Sometimes it's hell trying to line up the chronology, the ages, ranks and events dont always make sense.
Last edited by Tanksmasher; 01-12-2010 at 02:26 PM.. |
01-12-2010, 02:26 PM | #11027 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,235
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Quote:
My thoughts exactly. I bet Hama never dreamed it would go on for as long as it did. Even still in 1994 when the series ended with 155 Duke could have still only been early 50s. Snake-Eyes and Stalker would seem real old doing what they were doing in their late 40's even 50s? Although you sort of assume time slows down a bit so it was more like 89 instead of 94 in comic years.
Should the storytime always correspond with the year that the comic comes out? If not, then you can't really include new weaponry or technology that is invented without having to fastforward through time within an issue or two. Time is something I'm trying to deal with in my Vietnam story. If I want to include guys like Recoil, who was a LRRP and should therefore have been in Nam since LRP was no longer a unit designation after '69, then it becomes harder to explain his age and why he's an E5 when he joins the Joe team in 1989, which is when his figure came out. But maybe that year shouldn't correspond with his actual recruitment. As far as storytime is concerned, maybe he joined the Joes in 83 or 84, making for a more plausible story. Granted, a grade of E5 in the early 80s still seems low for a soldier who was in Nam, but it doesn't have to be assumed that Recoil or Stalker or even Spirit (who's an E4 for that matter) was in the military the entire time between the Vietnam war and the 80s storyline. Think about how old the joes would be right now: if we assume Stalker just arrived in Nam for the TET offensive of Jan '68, then he had to have joined the military no later than Jun '67, perhaps earlier, but at the very latest. And even though you could enlist at age 17, you couldn't go to Nam until you were 18, so if he turned 18 say Dec 67, he'd already be 32 by mid 1982 when the Joe's official storyline begins, and by now he'd be 60 years old! You either have to keep the Joes in the 80s or retire them or just create a new universe like Hama is doing now with Origins. Last edited by Tanksmasher; 01-12-2010 at 02:47 PM.. |
01-12-2010, 02:43 PM | #11028 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 2,157
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Personally, I like to think of the Joeverse as being set during the years the ARAH toys were originally produced, 82-94. That way the Vietnam backstory, which I think is very important, can be kept intact. If the team was to go on beyond 1994 and stay in that same continuity, the older members would naturally retire or take on less active roles within the team. Guys like Falcon and Beachhead would emerge as the senior members while the ranks were bolstered by new recruits.
But I get why Hama, or any writer for that matter, would want to keep the characters people have come to know and love center stage. But in order to do that, retconning is a must. Otherwise, you get a 60-year-old Snake Eyes running around. It just doesn't work. I think retconning is a good practice when dealing with superhero stories. But I like the Joes to exist in a little bit more of a real world. |
01-12-2010, 02:45 PM | #11029 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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I think the reason we had Downtown, who would replace Short-Fuze was to keep the personal updated and more modern.
Stalker was a soldier from 'Nam, he'd retire and be replaced by the new Ranger, Beachhead, who was younger and so on and so on...
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01-12-2010, 02:45 PM | #11030 |
All That Remains
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southern CT
Posts: 2,089
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These are only toys meant for children. I know most kids didn't give a squat about rank and such when you were 6-10 years old. Most of us played with our toys. As I've grown I've realized it's about the fun not about being a zealot to the filecard, the o-ring, or other such nonsense. It's about toys. That said for me to have fun I've just made my Joes more modern and scrapped a lot of what was written.
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