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09-20-2007, 09:01 PM | #1 |
VALKYRIE
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Over the rainbow where your mom is at son
Posts: 23,515
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From Kickback:
Part 1 Quote:
I've been reading a lot of threads during late in the evening and there a lot of posts that I read that I roll my eyes at, wish I could just go off on the person for their comment based on little to no knowledge, but I decided rather than do that in various threads in various forums, I'll just throw it in here. So here we go.
Myth #1: Hasbro doesn't care about collectors. This is incorrect. Before we begin, people need to realize the facts about certain things. Collectors (pre-movie anyways) made up less than 10% of the total toy sales for Transformers. That means when Hasbro marketing looked at the profit margins, for every 10 units that were sold, on average maybe ONE was to a collector, while the other 9 went to kids or casual fans or whatever. And that's maybe, because the actual number was something like 7%. With the movie's release, it's harder to gauge the actual numbers now because you have collectors mixed together with scalpers, and the toy sales are inflated because they're popular, in-demand, and overall quantity is low until mid November when replenishment is due to hit. As a company, you cannot cater your products to the lowest margin of profit. However, Hasbro has elected to participate in the annual Transformers convention, BotCon, by allowing Brian Savage and the crew at Fun Publications/Master Collector the right to use available molds to create exclusive figures for the show. To assist, Hasbro goes out of its way to create presentations for the attendees. I know for a fact that members of Hasbro's design team spent TIME creating the things you saw. Powerpoint presentation in their future panel? That took time. The diagram of how a toy goes through different processes, shown on the Hasbro tour? That wasn't made in 15 minutes, you know. My point is this ... Hasbro is a company with so many subdivisions that it is insane (Hasbro, Parker Brothers, PlaySchool, Milton Bradley, Tiger Electronics, NERF, Kenner) ... if you look at what the collector base for Transformers represents, which is close to 10%, and then convert that to Hasbro OVERALL, that equals less than one percent of their entire profit is based on us. We, Transformers collectors, couldn't make the difference between a profitable and unprofitable season for Hasbro. Myth 1a: Okay, so if Hasbro really cared about collectors, Classics (a collector's line) would have seen the figures everyone wanted (Thundercracker, Seekers) released at retail and not over-priced in the Botcon set! To begin, Classics was never considered a "collectors" line. No where on the packaging does it state collectors line, no where in the product description to retailers does it state that it's a collectors line. Hasbro's Transformers design team has mentioned it does serve well to the needs of collectors and original Transformers (G1) fans, but the only time that I am aware of that anyone at Hasbro has stated that Classics was a collectors line was in an E-mail that stated, "Please do not place movie promotion stickers on Transformers Classics, collectors are complaining" ... the movie promotion stickers that I'm talking about are for the animated movie's re-release, that you saw placed on Cybertron packaging and, if you were lucky, on the very first run of Classics (mostly at Target, as WalMart hadn't received stock while Target had, and was just sitting on it). Second, Classics was meant to be nothing more than a filler for the end portion of Cybertron to gap the space between Cybertron's "end date" and Transformers the Movie's "start date". The line itself was never meant to be on-going, hence the fact that it has now been incorporated into the original "Universe" line. At the time the decision was made to allow Fun Publications/Master Collector the right to use the Classics molds and the colorings/characters they wanted, Hasbro had already moved past Classics releases and were most likely on waves 2 or 3 of the Movie related figures. Toys don't become produced within 6 months of concept. What Hasbro is working on right now we won't see until the very end of 2008, beginning of 2009. And BotCon exclusives are planned out, seriously, a year before the show. Do the math. Classics did, however, sell well enough to warrant continuing it, hence the Universe line. With the cancellation of both Titanium and Alternators, the resources became available to continue to do the line (ie: MONEY) as well as move forward with new projects (TF: Animated). Would they have liked to release Thundercracker, etc., in main-line? Yes. Was it ever planned? No. Can they do it now? Yes. Will they? No, because you would totally destroy the entire purpose of what BotCon is, which is a place for fans and collectors to get together and celebrate, and if you can make the trip, you can pick up the set of exclusive (look up the word if you don't understand why it costs more and isn't available to mass release) figures that you and other attendees have. Myth #2 - Okay, so if Hasbro has the money with the successful movie, and the toyline is popular, they should be able to continue Alternators for the collectors. |
09-20-2007, 09:02 PM | #2 |
VALKYRIE
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Over the rainbow where your mom is at son
Posts: 23,515
|
From Kickback:
Part 2 Quote:
While the movie was successful, and the toyline has had a resurgence in popularity (shoot, I can't keep Transformers in stock at KB Toys, which sells them for $5 more than WalMart), continuing a line that did not make profit would just be silly. The problem Alternators had wasn't the mold choice, the color choice ... but more the complexity of the transformation of the toy. If I'm a father and I buy my kid a Dodge Ram pick-up because my kid likes trucks and he likes Transformers, and he can't transform the damn thing because it's so much for a kid, then I'm sure as hell not going to buy him another, and he's sure as hell not going to give the toy another thought. Thus, Hasbro has lost a repeat customer.
Alternators wasn't originally a collector's toyline ... it became that way later on as sales dropped, stores stopped re-ordering, and case assortments filled out with figures that weren't selling and collectors buying up the only new ones. Alternators, probably since the time of the new bubble packaging (the SECOND refresh, I might add), had become a line that only the collectors were buying. And it didn't succeed. Something very similar? Titanium. The littles one didn't sell. The big ones didn't sell. I don't know the numbers or the exact reasons, but let's face it ... the Galoob/Micro Machines team dropped the ball hardcore with the first wave (World War II Megatron looked like total ass, and was MISASSEMBLED in package). That, and since you were using metal, the cost was high and the profits were low, as the figures weren't selling. Myth #3 - Takara(Tomy) cares more about collectors than Hasbro does. This one is actually true. And you know why? BECAUSE THE ONLY PEOPLE IN JAPAN WHO BUY TRANSFORMERS ARE COLLECTORS! Flip-flop the numbers in the US for Japan. Only about 10% of sales are RANDOM, the other 90% are from robot/mecha/Transformers collectors. Takara-Tomy has not been successful with Transformers in Japan. The last pure Japan series, CAR ROBOTS (later dubbed as ROBOTS IN DISGUISE in USA), was a massive failure. It didn't make money. The toys didn't sell (well, they did, because it was the first time that imports became huge). Takara was on the verge of bankruptcy. Hasbro and Takara struck their deal for the Armada/Energon/Cybertron series, where it would be co-developed and co-produced by both companies. And even then, Takara still was nearing bankruptcy (with Hasbro footing the bill), and Tomy swooped in and bought Takara out-right. And now Takara-Tomy's focus is NOT Transformers ... the "Encore" series is simply their company's attempt to cash in on the nostalgia boom that is hitting Japan with the release of the movie there. Why else do you have Megatron, Optimus Prime, Starscream, Soundwave, Ratchet, and Ironhide as releases? Because they're all in the movie (Soundwave was originally meant to be Frenzy). Intentional? You betcha! Is Takara-Tomy going to do a brand new Transformers series while the USA does Animated? Probably not. Will Takara-Tomy bring Animated overseas? Possible, as US developed series seem to do well in Japan. So who knows for sure on that one. At the end of the day though, Takara-Tomy's success for Transformers relies on their Japan collector's market. And sadly, not even their collector base can salvage Transformers in Japan ... Myth #4 - Kickback is always right! Not at all. But I've been a collector since I was 5, and have been into it in a far more serious way for the last 7 years or so. And I don't just read the boards, I don't just search the sites looking for things that may be facts ... I research it the best I can with the resources available to me. Am I 100% accurate with all of what I just said? Probably not! But I guarantee you I'm closer to the correct answer than, "Hasbro doesn't care!" Trust me. If Hasbro didn't care, you wouldn't have any repaints of figures in G1 colors. You wouldn't have a BotCon. You wouldn't have things like the Alternators line at all, Masterpiece figures brought to the USA, the continuation of "Classics" ... Armada would not have received a Thundercracker and a Skywarp repaint/retool. There are so many things, looking back, that were done or "snuck in" for collectors and old fans. We may not see it because we sit here on the boards or walk into our stores and see nothing, hear nothing, read nothing from Hasbro about Transformers ... but they care. So the next time you go to type "If Hasbro really cared about collectors, we would have a ....." ... think about it. Yeah, it's easy to just type that out than it is to sit and think business-sense, reality sense ... but they have to. They deserve some credit, methinks |
09-20-2007, 09:12 PM | #3 |
SurveillancePort.com
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: M.A.R.S. EVERGLADES ARMORY
Posts: 21,464
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Wow, amazingly well said. Kickback for the win!
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09-20-2007, 10:11 PM | #4 |
Laser Rifle Trooper
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Chi-Town
Posts: 3,961
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Whatever dude...if Hasbro cared I would be able to purchase all exclusives fairly if I go to the " BOTCON" or not. I am sick of dealing with these senseless expalnations and bowing down to the " I will be a stupid consumer and follow what everybody else does"...blah, blah, blah!!! If I have the cash sell me the items at a decent price and make it available so everyone can enjoy the hobby not just a select few. At least the STAR WARS line gives everyone a chance to collect all the figurers - online, at the conventions, or through the fan club!
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The time has come for the Cobra to rise up and reveal himself. You will call me... Commander! My Feedback My Customs - Updated 2014 UPDATED!!! Action Figures for sale - great deals on anything - THIS STUFF NEEDS TO GO!!! Check my on-line shop on facebook and friend us - just sign-in with link down below. LMC TOYS & COLLECTIBLES |
09-21-2007, 12:21 AM | #5 |
Joecon Guru
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 2,431
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Quote:
At least the STAR WARS line gives everyone a chance to collect all the figurers - online, at the conventions, or through the fan club!
Lastly, Star Wars for the last 10 years or so, have had a great resurgence, with the special edition movies, prequels, clone wars cartoons, and the upcomming TV show, as well as the comic books and novels. there is always product to connect to the figures. (Hell, I didnt even know who Admiral Thrawn was until I saw the figure!) and again, the whole point of "exclusives" is an insentive for people to go to the conventions. Its the same deal with the G.I.Joe convention. The only way to get a Roddy piper figure is to go to the con, and quite frankly, if they didnt invite him to the con, I doubt if theyre would even BE a Piper figure! Does it suck to pay 30 bucks for one figure when I could have bought him for 6.99 if he was in stores? Yes. But ... now after next week. I can say "Nyah nyah, I got a Piper figure, you dont!!!!" you know, myabe if collectors stopped butching, and ponied up,.. Toy companies would put more effort in what you say. I mean, we griped about not having any info on The Joe con in atlanta this year, whereas tons of info was available at the San Diego comic con. well, thats because about 600 people show up at the Joe con every year,.. but 600,000 show up at comic con! Its a numbers game. I mean at the panel at last year's joe convention I asked the Hasbro reps can we see a Big Lob or Pythona figure (the two joe characters forgotten from the movie), the answer I got: Yes, we would love to make them, if you can guarentee you and 10,000 of your friends will buy them.....
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"I Couldn't help but notice your pain. It runs deep. SHARE IT WITH ME!" "Frack It!" |
09-22-2007, 09:19 AM | #6 |
Laser Rifle Trooper
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Chi-Town
Posts: 3,961
|
Yeah, yeah, blah, blah...I heard your side of the story as well and thats fine for you. However, this hobby we all enjoy has become a task at hand and these days the word "excluisve" just like the word "rare" have become key reason for morons to raise the price on a certain item to sell at a idiotic price. Yeah, yeah you may have a roddy piper but who cares but you. I wouldn't want an overpriced ( yeah your the sucker who paid $30.00 for it) figure like that anyway.
'nuff said...enjoy this pain in the arse hobby!
__________________
The time has come for the Cobra to rise up and reveal himself. You will call me... Commander! My Feedback My Customs - Updated 2014 UPDATED!!! Action Figures for sale - great deals on anything - THIS STUFF NEEDS TO GO!!! Check my on-line shop on facebook and friend us - just sign-in with link down below. LMC TOYS & COLLECTIBLES |
09-22-2007, 09:36 AM | #7 |
DDP did it better
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Grid.
Posts: 4,262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flash70
Yeah, yeah, blah, blah...I heard your side of the story as well and thats fine for you. However, this hobby we all enjoy has become a task at hand and these days the word "excluisve" just like the word "rare" have become key reason for morons to raise the price on a certain item to sell at a idiotic price. Yeah, yeah you may have a roddy piper but who cares but you. I wouldn't want an overpriced ( yeah your the sucker who paid $30.00 for it) figure like that anyway.
'nuff said...enjoy this pain in the arse hobby! |
09-22-2007, 10:37 AM | #8 |
Laser Rifle Trooper
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Chi-Town
Posts: 3,961
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It depends on your point of view. I wish not to pay a ridiculous price for exclusives. You may wish too. I wish not. Simple as that. If you don't like well okay. Live your collecting how you want to. We all have our opinions and wish to voice them. It is a forum after all...on all things joe. Good or Bad.
Peace out
__________________
The time has come for the Cobra to rise up and reveal himself. You will call me... Commander! My Feedback My Customs - Updated 2014 UPDATED!!! Action Figures for sale - great deals on anything - THIS STUFF NEEDS TO GO!!! Check my on-line shop on facebook and friend us - just sign-in with link down below. LMC TOYS & COLLECTIBLES |
09-22-2007, 03:05 PM | #9 |
Infantry
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,759
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I see what you're saying Flash, but in my opinion it only seems fair that those who go to Joe-con have a special figure available to them. Its like a reward for going to the convention. It would be unfair to spend the money to go to the convention, and recieve Snake-Eyes Wave 1 which you already had as a bonus for going.
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"Hey, it's always eat or be eaten out in the battlefield. No matter who or what you're up against."--Gail (Dino Crisis) |
09-23-2007, 09:14 AM | #10 |
AKA Shipwreck Jr.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 1,074
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wow flash. you lost me at
"if Hasbro cared I would be able to purchase all exclusives fairly if I go to the " BOTCON" or not." that's like saying you should be able to buy the same glove at walmart they had at dodgers "glove night". isnt that the point of something being "exclusive"? this isnt worth getting so worked up. some people take this stuff so personally! :confused: here is the way i take it: if you want to get mad at someone, get mad at SCALPERS!!!!
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AKA: Shipwreck Jr. on JBL my self custom, "Broadband" |
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