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01-07-2012, 01:00 PM | #2001 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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that you are my friend. That you are. You need a Ask Zulu Thread
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Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
01-07-2012, 02:56 PM | #2002 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 444
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Quote:
I always assumed that the GI Joe team would have been a team that operated "in the black," similar to the way they operated on the series "The Unit." Their cover was what - a supply and logistics unit? The same misleading tactic was used by stationing the original PIT beneath motor pool near the Chaplain's school at Ft. Wadsworth. The surrounding military were completely oblivious to the comings and goings of the soldiers they assumed were a bunch of grease monkeys. So, while Delta Force and SEALs were publicly known, it makes sense that other more elite or specialized teams would be kept in reserve to use in extremely delicate or volatile situations, without the world ever coming to know that the US had been involved. Sort of a bridge between the CIA's SAD and Delta.
I agree 100% with Joe operating in the "black" and being a small force to combat terrorist. The problem is that Cobra is not small. Smaller than America, Russia or China's military to be sure. But Cobra has bases all over the world, tanks, aircraft, ships and cutting edge technology. Cobra's not small by a long shot. It's not like Joe is battling small terrorist factions, it's more like a small nation. So how does a group that comprises of 30 to a couple of hundred individuals combat a force as large as Cobra?
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All work and NO play make Jack a dull boy....... |
01-07-2012, 05:56 PM | #2003 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Quote:
Quote:
This line was set up to make a profit and had it not been for Larry Hama, these would just be lifeless army men. There isnt a "keeper of the flame" to make sure
everything jives. Being prior military, I understand your frustration. My adult brain wants continuity and proper military structure. It's just not there. And there was the pressure of working on the best-selling comic book of the mid-1980s (also, being a licensed comic book, the GI Joe creative team had less time to produce an issue than a team working on a Marvel property comic book, they had to finish everything a week or two earlier because the suits at Hasbro needed to approve everything before Marvel could send the proofs to the printers)... some of the fans would absolutely crucify him for the smallest thing... I remember some asshole kid named Shane (I forget his last name, but he signed his nickname as "Cool") writing a letter to Postbox: The Pit (the letter was printed in issue #91, I believe) and absolutely eviscerating Hama, and even threatened to get his lawyer dad to sue him over some stupid thing he had about the stories not being realistic enough. I do think that at some point, you could see where Hama probably just said "Screw it" and pretty much set himself on auto-pilot: I'd say it was soon after the Cobra Civil War storyline in the late 1980s (you have to re-read the Cobra Civil War story again if you haven't read it in years... the first time I re-read it as an adult, it dawned on me that Hama wrote it as a tongue-in-cheek satire/parody of the Vietnam War, with the GI Joe-backed Serpentor faction as the stand-in for South Vietnam and the Fred VII faction as the stand-in for North Vietnam). I have to say though, finally coming to terms with GI Joe being "Hasbro's" and not "mine" (or even "Larry Hama's") has really helped marginalize my inner fanboy and the ugly tendencies that come with it. No more private fan-raging at whatever new GI Joe-branded trend-chasing thing Hasbro or its licensees shove out and expect us to buy. I'm still a fan of the Hama-era ARAH comics and toys of course, but I'd like to think of myself as a reasonable "fan-man" now and not a rabid fanboy. Quote:
Quote:
EDIT: BTW, just in case I haven't been clear in my rambling posts these past couple of days, I don't think it was "wrong" for me or anyone else to want a realistic GI Joe (as much as "realistic GI Joe" means anything), although the notion of it does strike me now, with hindsight, as being incompatible all along with the original intent of the property. It's just that I couldn't do it in a way that satisfied all my criteria for what would be a realistic GI Joe that still remained—in my opinion (and I can't stress this enough, this is personal preference, and not me saying that everybody else is wrong or whatever)—reasonably faithful to the ARAH toy designs and comic books. Last edited by zuludelta; 01-07-2012 at 08:26 PM.. Reason: added clarification |
01-08-2012, 12:26 AM | #2004 |
Bloods Blackops
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Franklin NY
Posts: 163
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Holy shit, I totally remember Shane cool. As a 12 year old at the time, all I wanted to do was find his playground and grind his face into it. Thanks for the blast from the past. And thanks for this thread. Myself and countless others have eagerly enjoyed, and even drawn inspiration from, your works. Hats off to you.
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01-08-2012, 04:32 AM | #2005 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Thanks AM, really appreciate it.
Talking about Shane "Cool" has got me thinking... it would be hilarious if he turned out to be a member of the 'tank, or a forum mod even. |
01-08-2012, 12:45 PM | #2006 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 444
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Quote:
I have to say though, finally coming to terms with GI Joe being "Hasbro's" and not "mine" (or even "Larry Hama's") has really helped marginalize my inner Fanboy and the ugly tendencies that come with it. No more private fan-raging at whatever new GI Joe-branded trend-chasing thing Hasbro or its licensees shove out and expect us to buy. I'm still a fan of the Hama-era ARAH comics and toys of course, but I'd like to think of myself as a reasonable "fan-man" now and not a rabid fanboy.
__________________
All work and NO play make Jack a dull boy....... |
01-08-2012, 04:17 PM | #2007 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Stone Mountain, GA
Posts: 658
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What can I say that hasn't already been said? As I've told you privately, I wished that you were able to allow yourself the opportunity to change things to suit your needs and am saddened that you were never able to get around to the Cobra document.
That said, I'm deeply grateful for the *immense* amount of work that you put in here, the framework that will probably always guide my Joe projects, and a better working of the military in general. This project has served as a big source of inspiration and helped rekindle my love of the property. Thank you, zd. |
01-09-2012, 03:16 AM | #2008 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Thanks MT, you've always been a very vocal and active supporter and sounding board for the project, and I'm deeply sorry if I've wasted your time and energies on a project that will remain unfinished.
Still, it's all out there, the images and the PDFs can be accessed in this thread by anyone who wants to take whatever they can from my efforts, so it's not a total waste, I would hope. |
01-09-2012, 08:33 AM | #2009 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Stone Mountain, GA
Posts: 658
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Quote:
Thanks MT, you've always been a very vocal and active supporter and sounding board for the project, and I'm deeply sorry if I've wasted your time and energies on a project that will remain unfinished.
Still, it's all out there, the images and the PDFs can be accessed in this thread by anyone who wants to take whatever they can from my efforts, so it's not a total waste, I would hope. Further, my disappointment has been largely lessened by the fact that you had moved in a new direction anyway when you started the "1982" project. In hindsight, that was great for me because it gave me the push to dig into what I wanted out of the property. If you recall, I was personally moving away from wanting to do a huge team anymore because I'd fallen in love with fleshing out the concept that Hama was allowed to turn those later characters into updates of the early run of characters as he wanted to starting with the 1985 series. Besides, if I had to choose between a having the project complete and you ride off into the sunset fulfilled versus leaving the project but still hanging around to shoot the shit and offer insight I'd take option two every time. Last edited by Master Thespian; 01-09-2012 at 08:48 AM.. |
01-09-2012, 05:48 PM | #2010 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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You're right, of course, this could be one of those things where the journey, so to speak, was much more important than the destination. I learned a lot over the course of the project, not just from doing the background reading and research, but also from the interaction with the HISStank community.
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