|05-08-2008, 10:21 AM||#11|
Join Date: Sep 2007
I'd gladly pay $115 for an 8 hour class on sculpting and mold making taught by an experienced professional (and you get tools and keep what you make). More than a fair price in my opinion. I'm with Echo too, learning hands on is invaluable, pictures and words can only teach you so much. I wish I could make it this year, but I'll have to wait until the show comes closer to Chicago.
|05-08-2008, 12:45 PM||#12|
Join Date: May 2008
Has the Joe community really come to this? People charging overly priced prices to learn how to cast is outragious right now with gas prices so HIGH.
Good lord if you just look around you can find people who will go haves or heck even 3 ways to purchse an overpriced part created by someone, then that person will mold it or cast it at a much lower price.
In this day and age 115$$$ is serious bucks to spend on something. It's like ebay price gouging.
I hope you do extremly well with your seminar, but I wish other people would look around as fellow Joe collectors can cast, much cheaper than others. People not trying to get rich off a a hobby, or heck Hasbro is becoming such a pain in the but, why even sell stuff that could get one sued.
|05-08-2008, 01:17 PM||#13|
Join Date: Sep 2007
Ok, I have some questions on this...
Did Aly set the price or is this another way for the "Club" to make money...? I'm pretty sure Brian would charge us for air at these things if he could.
If Aly didn't set the price then the people complaining about that need to redirect their anger/focus.
Also, if the class were being taught by somebody who didn't do this for a living, I could see complaints too. Like having an Attorney giving a seminar on first aid, just because he likes band-aids, would be pretty pointless.
And some of the petty jealousy some customizing "experts" show towards each other is laughable. If being a good customizer means I have to have an attitude and dislike everything but my own stuff, I'll stick to head swaps.
I'd take the class myself, but learned long ago to leave these things to the people that know how, like Alyosha and the guys at GTG. I didn't see any links to the sites where the other "experts" have their work for sale.
Maybe one day they will be asked to teach a class too...
Just my .02 you guys can get back to your internet slap fight.
|05-08-2008, 02:00 PM||#14|
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Greensboro, NC
While I'm not able to go to the convention, i would gladly pay that price for hands-on. I think Xhairs has a point that the online/community has a ton to offer, and would undoubtedly be enough for some people. But for myself, I'm very "hands-on" learning. The bonus of keeping the tools is a nice touch. I wish I could go because I would very much like to learn this process from someone who has done it to the extent of Alyosha.
As far as cost goes - well, doesn't everything at the Joe Cons usually cost a kidney? I think the knowledge and hands on training goes a long way towards justifying this particular cost. The possibilities are endless, way beyond just customizing Joes.
Aly - are you going to record or have anything post-class to show people who didn't attend, how it went? Maybe show some of the results from the students?
|05-08-2008, 02:19 PM||#15|
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Euless, Texas
Alyosha did not set the price.. The CLUB did. He explained that in a nother post. So for those wh keep directing their attention to the cost and think it's his. Think again.
Being someone who has worked hands on with casting, I will say this. Yes, you can learn on the web with walk throughs, yes, you may be able to make them cheaper.
Now here is what you are not asking yourself...A.) How well is a walk through with pictures compared to having everything in front of you and an actual person to ask question when you screw up. B.) Is the material you used to make them cheaper just as good of quality as those that hasbro or even better.. Alyosha uses.
The term, "You get what you paid for" comes in real good here. Both in the experience you will have from the class and knowing what the best material to use for your new molds so that is isn't too rubbery or over all crap.
Too many threads have been started on not just this forum but several others bashing Alyosha's classes. Last year he had one hour to do everthing.. This process never takes just one hour, unless you don't mind near complete crap. This year he has more time (2 days) and can put a little more structure into it.
Last but not least and going back to the top. The CLUB set the price.. not Alyosha.
Thank you and goodnight.
Looking for one Danger at the Docks Exc.
My B/S/T List:
Last edited by Magick; 05-08-2008 at 02:27 PM..
|05-08-2008, 02:23 PM||#16|
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dallas, TX
Al Yoshi (nice name by the way)- While I appreciate your reference to gas prices and the fact that they are running away like scalded dogs, your not suggesting that I actually had anything to do with it are you?
The price was set by the club (not the mysterious and ever-so generic "people" you reference) when they added up all the factors involved that you most likely are taking for granted. In addition to the outlay for materials (whether the class sells through or not), there is the additional room that must be booked (for two days) and all the other parts and pieces to put together the puzzle. Personally, given what it would cost to participate in a hands on tutorial given by a manufacturer, I'm 100% behind the price of the class.
I do understand that $115 is a decent amount of cash, and the additional outlay for another night of lodging has to be considered as well, and those who have to restrain themselves to a strict budget have my sincere sympathies and understanding. If the shoe were on the other foot, and I was going to pay to participate, I would be hard pressed to afford it myself.
I also understand your comment that other Joe collectors can cast, and are willing to share information cheap/free. More power to them, but if you ask them are they willing to invest the time necessary to do it as a full time gig, I'll garauntee that the majority will say "no". When people purchase from me (and any other vendor for that matter) your not just paying for the inherent value of the item, your also paying for the overhead. Moldmaking and pressure casting is a very labor and time intensive venture, so the majority of the costs associated with what I sell are related to the time and not necessarily the physical materials.
Here's an example. To make a custom cast figure involves these steps:
design your figure (for me this process can take weeks and sometimes even months, as I juggle ideas and parts combos around in my head)
purchase multiples figures as base parts (most of my figures use parts from at least 4 or 5 different figures, but some have run as high as 12)
modify parts to fit together (dremel, notch, sand)
sculpt additional or new details or parts (this can take as many as 100 hours [Nemesis Enforcer] depending on the amount of mods or new parts your adding)
disassemble/clean the figure (anything you don't clean up/off will show up as a blemish in your mold thus contaminating every part you pull out of it afterwards)
set up molds (this takes anywhere from 4 to 8 hours to do correctly and cleanly so that your molds are as fine as possible)
pour and cure silicone (45 minutes to pour, 8 hours to cure under pressure and heat)
demold original parts (this process can take an additional 2 hours, beause the cleaner and slower you work, the less mold marks your final casts will have)
post cure molds (silicone must be cooked an additional 2 or 3 hours to cook out any residual chemicals that might affect your castings)
pour test/hard copy parts (you've got to make sure that all your work making the molds pays off with clean/crisp WHOLE parts)
cure (an additional 1 to 3 hours under heat and pressure)
demold, and trim test parts (this can take anywhere from a half to an additional hour depending on how clean yours parts came out, so the more time you spend setting them up, the less time you spend here)
reheat and assemble/test fit final castings (most parts are still warm and will "tweak" coming out of the molds, so to make them take their proper shape so they will fit, you need to reheat and put them together)
color match and pour regular cast parts (what good is casting parts for a figure, if none of them match?)
cure (again, 1 to 3 hours)
demold and trim (same as trimming your test parts)
reheat and assemble final cast parts (same as pulling test parts, they have to fit together properly for the figure to look right...this can take anywhere from 20 to 60 minutes for each figure, with most falling squarely in the middle of that)
As you can see, things can get out of hand in a big hurry as far as time involved in just a single project, and being a consumer business these associated costs are passed on to the end user. By telling me what you think I should charge or how unfair I am, your trying to dictate to me what my time is worth, and since it is a finite resource I'll reserve sole judgement on that value.
I'm not out to get rich (I make enough to get by most times), and I'm certainly not trying to get into Hasbro's pocket. In intend to offer a service and product that most Joe guys and customizers consider a plus to the community. I really am sorry that you can't view it like that, but I do thank you for your well wishes if sincere.
Falcon- Your right, in a community this small, their seems to be proportionately WAY too much squabbling, infighting and general douche-baggery. While I have been guilty of some of that in the past myself, it's time to put those things to bed and look forward....it's a great time to be a Joe fan, and I don't want to spend that time arguing with someone who has taken umberage with something I've done or not done to/for/against them.
Magick- Preach on.
Mr. C- While they did film somewhat last year, I'll see about getting them to put something together. I know we'll have a video camera there as well, so hopefully it will work out. We planned to last year, but it went FUBAR.
Last edited by Alyosha; 05-08-2008 at 02:52 PM.. Reason: spell check
|05-08-2008, 02:23 PM||#17|
Join Date: Jan 2008
Just wondering how many colleges out there offer this as a course? I don't know of any. If they were how much would it cost? It isn't a bad deal at all if you want to learn. As I said I know of some people who did this with comic books and believe me there is a lot of work that goes into these classes. Alyosha said that he didn't set the price so bashing him isn't the way to go. I'm sure if he had set the price it would have been a lot less. But keep in mind if you enjoy sculpting or customizing action figures where else are you going to find a class like this? After reading about the class I can honestly say that for the first time I'm upset about missing the con. And if he is doing the same thing next year or if I get another chance I'll be there.
But for real people lets try to end this bashing. There just isn't any sense in it.
|05-08-2008, 02:55 PM||#18|
Join Date: May 2007
Location: blasdell, ny near buffalo
well Aly how much are you making off it i hope its more then 50/50 as your doing all the work.and if MC did make the price thats sick as they make enough money off of us. i hope its in a open area and not a room. oh aly i guess what ppl told me about it free last were lying .
Al Yoshi is right. man it cost about 2 grand to go to the con then if you want stuff thats more money. we are in a recession . if i could get someone to teach me over the pc for free i would do it. yes im a hands on guy but dont have that much cash to spend on a trip to learn how to cast.
Last edited by xhairs; 05-08-2008 at 02:57 PM..
|05-08-2008, 02:58 PM||#19|
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
IMHO, I think that this would be well worth the cost. I wish that I could make it out there to the class, but prior commitments with Uncle Sam will take me overseas.
As an artist, I paid about $300 per class, per semester to continue my art education at a community college before enlisting in the Marines. I am more of a paper an pencil kind of artist so I didn't take any sculpting classes, but from most of the work I saw, none of it pertained to anything that Alyosha will teach you in the class. You just wouldn't find this kind of info and expertise elsewhere. Learning in person and getting hands on training far exceeds the "I can get this on the net for free" attitude. Just think of how many times you'll screw a piece up before getting it right. In the class, you can learn how o do it right the first time around. Rant over...
Wish I could make it, but the GWOT beckons!! lol!
Last edited by Marine_Deadpool; 05-08-2008 at 03:01 PM..
|05-08-2008, 03:08 PM||#20|
Overlord of Evil
Join Date: Jun 2003
I will be at the event, so yeah just watch for our JoeCon coverage for all of the events at the show.
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