My impressions of the original Marvel G.I.Joe series

[titanate]

I've been reading all the collected TPBs of the Classic Marvel run of the G.I.Joe series--including the Special Missions issues--and just wanted to voice some of the things I've come across and some of the opinions I have about it now...

First off, I gotta say that issues 1 - ~70 have a totally different feel than the ones from ~72 forward. Whichever issue it is that the Cobra (Island) Civil War concludes and wraps up is the last where the series feels the same. From that point forward, it's so ad-hoc and discombobulated, and everything focuses on two things: Dreadnoks (unfortunately; this is huge disappointment) and introducing new characters as quickly as possible. It just doesn't even feel like you're reading the same comic anymore.

The series is replete with errors. I don't know if it's mistakes that were somehow caused/created in re-creating the series for TPB where they had to "re-ink" some of the dialogue, but a LOT of speech bubbles being attributed to incorrect characters, characters saying stuff that doesn't make sense. There's a point when the 'Joes are inserting a recon team onto Cobra Island and it's clear that Falcon is the leader of the team, but the artwork has him done in Flint's colors. And I think it's issue #80 where Duke keeps on calling a character "Rumbler" but it's obviously Armadillo. And they don't limit the mistake to that one issue; it carries forward into another one. All-in-all, though, I've only seen these egregious mistakes in the main series; the Special Missions series seem to be safe of these errors.

Marshall Rogers; I have a love/hate relationship with this artist. I hate his envisioning of Hawk, with the flat top and squared jaw in issue 61 (and a few others, I think). He looks like that Russian dude from the Rocky movies--"I will break you." Outside of that, his characters sometimes come across as stiff. However, his pencils are some of the cleanest and best "illustration" work in the series. But there comes a point--I guess it's around issue #90--where the artwork begins to drop off and you can tell we've entered the 1990s. Who do you consider YOUR G.I.Joe artist, who best represents what G.I.Joe was to you during the series? Because the artists definitely each have a different feel.

[Stormgard]

Some artists were definitely better than others.

I didn't keep track of names, but the artwork around the time of the Cobra Island Civil War was very strong, and that whole story arc represents to me what G.I.Joe was to me as a kid. Plus Special Missions - the best of those stories were as good as it got.

[titanate]

Okay, so I've gone back and looked at the "older" issues of the series and noted the artist that I recognized as being the classic "G.I.Joe" look--and it's Rod Whigham. I love his work on the series, his stuff was always great. But I'm also digging Mark "M.D." Bright's work on the series later on in issues ~90-100.

My next observation is that I could totally do with LESS of the Brainwave Scanner. Good grief, I really had no idea they used that thing so heavily throughout the whole series. I originally thought it was just a plot device they kept falling back on later in the series (say around issue 120) when the stories were just getting weak and they had a hard time finding ways to keep things fresh. But no, they definitely leaned on it heavily throughout the duration of the entire series. I really had no idea.

Hama's crafting of the story over the first 100 books that I've read is really rather neatly done, even if it can be cheesey at times (but understanding it was written for an audience around the age of 12-13, I'm taking it for what it is). HOWEVER, his excessive use of phrases such as "That's a Rodge" and "shot us up but good" really sticks out when you're reading 100 issues and see them again and again.

[titanate]

Oh yeah, and one other thing...

Personally, Lt. Falcon is my favorite character ever from the ARAH line. But I have a soft spot for the entire 1987 line, including Outback and Chuckles. So it seems a little bit odd to me that Hama used Falcon so very little in his books (including the main series and the Special Missions titles) while he uses characters like Chuckles, Outback, Muskrat ('88), and even Lightfoot ('88) rather generously (the former two even moreso than the latter two).

But I guess it could be worse. I mean, my favorite character could have been Footloose or Sci-Fi (talk about under-utilized).

[Stormgard]

I think one of the reasons I like Tunnel Rat so much is because he got quite a lot of face time in ARAH and Special Missions. I wonder what it must have been like for Hama to write up a character that was kind of based on him - does he see TR as representing him or his own personality somehow? I first noticed TR because he just seemed to have the coolest outfit and gear, but over the course of reading the comics I started to appreciate his personality too.

I would liked to have seen Dusty used a little bit more. He and Stalker are my two other fave Joes, and Stalker certainly gets plenty of attention in the book.

Out of curiosity, what do you like particularly about Falcon? When I started collecting the toys, he was one of my first 7 figures I bough, so I have fond memories of him too.

I agree that it is strange that he doesn't get much face time, but with so many characters to choose from, I suppose it's inevitable that the writer has his favorites too.

Falcon did do a pretty great job leading that recon team in the Cobra Island Civil War though. And I don't know if you have read beyond the TPBs, but Falcon is also featured in a big story arc that will come up between approx 108 and 114, if memory serves me well. There also a European Missions issue featurig Falcon, I think it was titled "War Beneath the Waves".

[mr pawn]

the comic book was very confussing for me, i would read it every month it came out, then watch the cartoon, and it had me all fugged up, they were both so differant, i just could not get into the comic, i read them all and can't remember shit.

[Troynos]

Just the opposite for me. Comic over cartoon.

Watched/read both and could understand, even as a kid, that they were different universes.

What threw me for a loop was how badly the cartoon messed things up.

Thanks to the cartoon we got Duke as the main Joe. And how could everyone pilot a skystriker or drive a Mauler?

[Stormgard]

Oh and Titanate, check out the "What Secrets Lurk..." thread right now - pages 1538-1540 - there's a nice little convo going on about Falcon.

[Stormgard]

Just the opposite for me. Comic over cartoon.

Watched/read both and could understand, even as a kid, that they were different universes.

What threw me for a loop was how badly the cartoon messed things up.

Thanks to the cartoon we got Duke as the main Joe. And how could everyone pilot a skystriker or drive a Mauler?


Well I never watched the cartoon, but it's clear to me that is really represented a completely different Joeverse than the comic. I got the sense the comic was meant to be compatible with the info on the filecards.

[titanate]

Wow, I am really glad to see that this thread finally has a little bit of activity and some life to it!

Speaking directly to some of Stormgard's comments:

I don't have a really good reason for why Falcon became my permanent favorite character/figure. You know how, as a kid, you pick out your favorite sports teams often times by their colors? Sorta the same for me and Falcon. Falcon was, first off, one of my few first figures. Second, the card artwork was bad@$$, and some of the best ever for the line, in my opinion. Third, I loved his camo look and the gear he came with. I never read a comic book that had him in it as a kid and he obviously only ever appeared in the cartoon ONCE, and that was for the movie in which, for 3/4 of the movie, he was portrayed as a punk. So there's nothing about his character that I loved. As I got older, though, I really respected that he spoke so many languages, and I thought that was the coolest thing. Used him as an interpreter on a couple of missions for the team.

I have read all the way up through the end of Vol. 10 of the Classic G.I.Joe TPBs--and don't worry, I know what comes up ahead as I owned issue #113 (I think it was #113, it's the one where Battle Force 2000 dies). So I know of the death and destruction coming up. And I've read the synopsis of the issues leading up to #113 so I know of the role Falcon gets. Personally, I can't wait to see it. Falcon had a bit of a role in the attack on Cobra Island, but--and this is going to sound really petty--I got really ticked when the few precious appearances he was going to get in the arc he got cheated out of. For instancce, there's one cell where Hawk is explaining who the recon team, and he lists everyone on the team by name, and each member is on that page, EXCEPT FOR FALCON. Later on the 'Joes are traveling in the Mamba (a completely ridiculous scenario, by the way) and there's clearly supposed to be a representation of Falcon in the copter, except the color artist did him in Flint colors, so instead of Falcon, we get Flint in the 'copter. GAH!

For the record, I've read up through issue 100 and I don't see Tunnel Rat appearing that often. The only time I can think of seeing him, in fact, is in that assault on Cobra Island during the Cobra Civil War.

[Owner of a Lonely B.A.T.]

I'm a big fan of the Marvel run I'll admit there are both coloring issues and word ballon issues and there are points later in the series where some of the plot twists and retro looping characters origins in to Snake Eyes origins became a bit much.

But pound for pound the Marvel run is my favorite. I think the biggest issues it suffers from is the book TRYING to keep up with the constant influx of new characters....I mean honestly how the hell do you introduce and develop like 12-20 or more new characters every year all the while maintaining the characters already existing? All the while keeping new stories going?

Its an impossible task.
And always the biggest problem with any Team book.

Joe also suffered in later issues because of the cartoon's downfall and the toylines decline...I'd also add in earlier issues what made things work so well is nobody corperate cared about the book it was a side item once it took off all of a sudden Larry was presurred to drive the book in the direction they wanted.

Pound for pound I still think the book is the best Joe product we've seen to date the original cartoon may also be up there as well.

Oddly while not the BEST of that Marvel line I wish they had done some of what the filler issues were doing towards the end, by having some self contained spotlight style stories that revolved around one character...I'm not saying the main title should have morphed into that, but I think a qaurterly or by monthly book along those lines should have happened much earlier.

Say what you will I enjoyed Roadblock vs a Plane full of Cobras...and while not the BEST issue Scarlett vs the BAT was at least ALL Scarlett.

I wouldn't mind seeing more of that. With less used characters.

[PitViper]

I may be alone here but I appreciate the classics once we get around Vol 3 a bit more.

I think the first few issues are great and all but it's a little..hmmmm...less "fantastic". Once Zartan, the Dreadnoks, Serpentor and the SE SS stuff starts to unfold I think it is just much more interesting.

The 1st Volume is just too run of the mill military for me. I appreciate it a bit more for the colorful characters that come into play as it progresses.

Going back to what someone mentioned here before, even as a kid I never confused or looked for continuity with Sunbow and Marvel. In Sunbow the Joe team are practically the Avengers...I mean everyone can fly a Skystriker or SHARC. It's fun and I love it....but I always took it for what it is.

Marvel on the other hand was much more "grounded".....even though Stalker killed a croc with a small dagger in a leisure suit :)

Anyway yea the comics seemed to be much more grounded and leveled out while adding just the right amount of fantasy and that "fantastic" element...especially from about the late 30's to the 70's....then after that it has it's moments, I think all of Trucial Abysmia is awesome...but that's about it.

[Stormgard]

Wow, I am really glad to see that this thread finally has a little bit of activity and some life to it!

...

For the record, I've read up through issue 100 and I don't see Tunnel Rat appearing that often. The only time I can think of seeing him, in fact, is in that assault on Cobra Island during the Cobra Civil War.

Funny you mention that. Now I think about it, I think TR happened to feature a lot in the first comics I happened to read - including the Cobra Island arc (from the very beginning, including being on the Desert fox trying to shoot the Star Viper), and a couple of Special Missions based in a jungle setting - "Ambush" and "Scoop". He's meant to be EOD but in the comic he often takes on the role of squad machine gunner - and the fact that he's meant to be a smaller guy makes that all the more awesome in my book. He's the short guy who has to work just a little harder to prove to himself and his buddies that he's as tough as any other Joe. I think I also liked him because I related to his multiethnic background, although I didn't realise that at first - I think I assumed he was white.

I must have been getting into G.I.Joe around the time he was a new character they were trying to introduce, but he got face time steadily throughout the Marvel series. He's introduced first when he's out in the desert testing some new weapons and then tries to defend that column from CC (or maybe it is Fred) in that funny pogo machine. Later on, he's involved in the war in Benzheen, helps defend the Pit from a Cobra attack in around issue 130 or so, and even plays a role in that TF crossover. He shows up in a few more Special Missions issues too - not as much coverage as Stalker or Flint, but definitely more than say LowLight, Outback or Dusty.

[titanate]

I must have been getting into G.I.Joe around the time he was a new character they were trying to introduce, but he got face time steadily throughout the Marvel series. He's introduced first when he's out in the desert testing some new weapons and then tries to defend that column from CC (or maybe it is Fred) in that funny pogo machine. Later on, he's involved in the war in Benzheen, helps defend the Pit from a Cobra attack in around issue 130 or so, and even plays a role in that TF crossover. He shows up in a few more Special Missions issues too - not as much coverage as Stalker or Flint, but definitely more than say LowLight, Outback or Dusty.

REALLY? More than Outback? My memory likely serves me poorly, but it has just felt to me like they use Outback in almost every other issue. Of course that's an exaggeration, but it has felt like he gets a ton of face time. Not that it bothers me because all of the '87 guys are my boys :)

You definitely seem to know all your comic book stuff, though. Very cool! I only had one issue of the Battle of Benzheen in which Sneak Peek dies, but I remember Tunnel Rat having a role in that issue (he was on the cover, of course!).

I went to BloodForTheBaron.com, which I think I saw you reference in the filecards thread (thanks for directing me over there by the way!) and found that "War Beneath the Waves" issue you alluded to, and that one was pretty good. Although I got to say, it got me really interested in the Action Force aspect of G.I.Joe. Dont know what that is at all... I'm guessing it's the UK version of G.I.Joe (since they couldn't market G.I.Joe as a "Real American Hero" anywhere outside of the USA)? Probably not best to discuss it in this thread, but I'd be interested in learning more!

[Sergeant Slaughter]

I really liked the Marvel run. There was something charming about those early stories, especially as a few characters started getting introduced. Eventually though, it did become kind of an odd comic. Made you sort of miss the original crew. Even if they did pop up from time to time.

[Stormgard]

REALLY? More than Outback? My memory likely serves me poorly, but it has just felt to me like they use Outback in almost every other issue. Of course that's an exaggeration, but it has felt like he gets a ton of face time. Not that it bothers me because all of the '87 guys are my boys :)



Outback I would have liked to have seen more of actually - I felt like the never quite developed him as much as they could have.

His great moment in that Borovia story arc of course, but I also remember him in the Special Missions issue with Dusty, Lightfoot, and Mangler, and also the issue when they land on that rock that comes out of the sea and get rescued by the Rolling Thunder.

[Shipshape1983]

To Me the comics and the cartoons played off one another.
Sorta....

Duke was the lead man in the show, while Hawk was the lead in the comics.
Scarlet was the main girl for the comics, while Lady Jay was the lead girl in the show.

Certain characters got more face time depending on what media they were in.

Shipwreck was a perfect example of this.

On the show, he was great! My fav character. He had personality, a roguish charm and just a likable guy.

where as in the comics....he was kind of a generic sailor character who was thrown in cuz Hasbro made a toy of him.

[Tanksmasher]

That's one of the best story arcs in the entire run. Outback is a great character and I wish Falcon and guys like Hit N Run would have gotten more development.

[Stormgard]

I think Falcon is someone who IDW could do a lot with. He's a medic, knows a bunch of languages, very much from the old school "winning hearts and minds" type of special forces soldier. I could see him being a natural leader in an operation that involves civilian locals somewhere, and perhaps clashing with more aggressive team members who favor a more direct action approach.

He's a tough and dedicated soldier, and no pushover, but I could see his character being used to illuminate some of the moral confusions in war. I'm not saying he should "go native", but I could see him reimagined with a scruffy beard and trading in his beret for some local headwear, blending in a little more.