PDA

View Full Version : Skystriker Q&A


sgt.rock
01-23-2011, 08:14 PM
Is there any chance of Hasbro creating a modern skystriker? I mean has anything been said recently in any of the Q & A's?
I am getting tired of spending the GDP of a small country picking up vintage stuff on EvilBay and trying to piece them together part by part.
BTW what is a fair price for a complete Skystriker anyway?

Scoop
01-23-2011, 08:30 PM
Well first off if you didn't already know the molds which made the original Skystriker were damaged and destroyed some years ago. If they were to make one that looked like the original did they would have to make new molds from the original parts, or make an entire mold with new tooling.

I highly doubt that Hasbro would ever make an original looking Skystriker for a huge release in stores. If anything it would probably be a club exclusive or something like that.

The way that things are going for Hasbro and Joes lately I also doubt that Hasbro would make a jet or any other vehicle that large right now.

If Joes were to take off once again as they did in the 80's I could see a modern Skystriker being made, but it wouldn't be an F-14. It might be an F-22 Raptor instead or even the new F-35 but this is only if the G.I. Joe line returns to it's military roots instead of the futuristic stuff we've been getting for the past few years.

samantha
01-23-2011, 08:35 PM
Well first off if you didn't already know the molds which made the original Skystriker were damaged and destroyed some years ago. If they were to make one that looked like the original did they would have to make new molds from the original parts, or make an entire mold with new tooling.

I highly doubt that Hasbro would ever make an original looking Skystriker for a huge release in stores. If anything it would probably be a club exclusive or something like that.

The way that things are going for Hasbro and Joes lately I also doubt that Hasbro would make a jet or any other vehicle that large right now.

If Joes were to take off once again as they did in the 80's I could see a modern Skystriker being made, but it wouldn't be an F-14. It might be an F-22 Raptor instead or even the new F-35 but this is only if the G.I. Joe line returns to it's military roots instead of the futuristic stuff we've been getting for the past few years.

I agree. I wish they would release the Skystriker again but I think that ship has sailed. :(

CornDog_The_Ninja
01-23-2011, 08:43 PM
Re-release the Skystriker??? Wha...

This is a new and original thought and I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Shogi
01-23-2011, 08:59 PM
Anytime it's been brought up in Q&A's the answer has pretty much been no. Like previously mentioned the molds were destroyed years ago.

Zoomie2001
01-23-2011, 09:00 PM
Power Team Elite still makes better vehicles than Hasbro. Even the motormax F-22 knocks the socks off of most current GI Joe vehicles. The new firefox... er, night raven was a little silly... sorry.

Tuskegee Joe
01-23-2011, 10:13 PM
like Tron 2 maybe Top Gun 2 can result in a trilogy of exciting new movies + toys. Hasbro has Paramount's phone # so they can talk about it. The movie did center on the Skystriker's inspiration = F-14 vs. classic A-6 jets. So that formula might work in Top Gun 2, classic F-14s vs. new F/A-18s. Top Gun 3, new F/A-18 vs. newer F-35C. Top Gun 4 newer F-35C vs. newest X-47B. Hasbro can then milk repaints on all them jets for Joe; Renegades line, movie line, 30th, 40th, 50th anniversary line. Again Hasbro has Paramount's #

Hmheggins2000
01-23-2011, 10:28 PM
The lost or destroyed molds story is a easy out, but if they really wanted to they could get one off of Ebay or some online store and then make a master mold of one and end of mold story. I am suprised that nobody has made a attempt at one. I remember somebody did a clear firebat so it will be only a matter of time before somebody will take the task of doing a skystryker.

krisk
01-23-2011, 10:45 PM
What are the odds that Hasbro may release other vehicles that may not need much redesign to fit the 25th or newer figs? I tried several figs in a couple of my older vehicles(moray, whale, tomahawk) and they seem to fit okay. other than the pegs.

CornDog_The_Ninja
01-23-2011, 10:55 PM
Big vehicles don't sell. Hasbro has told us this. Several times.

For every three people on here who says they'd buy one, one guy will, one is lying, and one can't afford it. The rest complain about the price and will wait until it hits clearance or a discount store like Ross.

the Scream Man
01-23-2011, 11:28 PM
I plan to get a Skystriker at some point, but i agree with the others that a new one will be a modern fighter.

Isn't the Thunderwing an F22?

sgt.rock
01-23-2011, 11:37 PM
All of your feedback is very interesting.
But i remember visiting China on a business trip not too long ago and one of my stops was a plastic injection molding facility. When i had inquired about creating a dye from scratch, i was given a fee of approximately 10,000 usd. So i dont buy the old broken mold- limited number story either. This seems like a paltry sum for a behemoth like Hasbro.
I am confident that they will be able to sell enough F-14's or F-22's, or whatever modern era fighter is in our arsenal these days. Why buy another themes toys when it is joe that we want, and nostalgize for.
But i truly believe that the "TomCat" as an air superiority fighter is in a class of its own. And there can never be a replacement for our belove '83 skystriker.
Hasbro wake up and give your fandom what they want.

CornDog_The_Ninja
01-23-2011, 11:41 PM
Maybe when GI Joe is as popular as Star Wars and/or Transformers it'll happen.

Jmacq1
01-23-2011, 11:52 PM
All of your feedback is very interesting.
But i remember visiting China on a business trip not too long ago and one of my stops was a plastic injection molding facility. When i had inquired about creating a dye from scratch, i was given a fee of approximately 10,000 usd. So i dont buy the old broken mold- limited number story either. This seems like a paltry sum for a behemoth like Hasbro.
I am confident that they will be able to sell enough F-14's or F-22's, or whatever modern era fighter is in our arsenal these days. Why buy another themes toys when it is joe that we want, and nostalgize for.
But i truly believe that the "TomCat" as an air superiority fighter is in a class of its own. And there can never be a replacement for our belove '83 skystriker.
Hasbro wake up and give your fandom what they want.

10,000 for a dye from scratch. Except that the Skystriker isn't all one piece. That's 10,000 dollars for each -piece- of the mold. That adds up much more quickly. Plus, Hasbro may not use the factory you were visiting...theirs may cost more for a variety of reasons. Depending on how long ago "not too long ago" is, the price may also have gone up considerably. Prices for manufacturing in China have skyrocketed over the past four or five years. Still dirt-cheap compared to manufacturing in, say, America, but a lot of companies are starting to look for alternatives to China...unfortunately for the pocketbooks of consumers, they aren't finding many.

"Copying" an old Skystriker (as suggested above) doesn't negate the cost of making the mold. It also makes an inferior ("Softer") mold. Further, Hasbro has also said that they do not believe the old Skystriker would pass present-day safety and drop-tests. So...yeah, they'd have to do new tooling regardless.

Shin Densetsu
01-24-2011, 03:55 AM
Power Team Elite still makes better vehicles than Hasbro. Even the motormax F-22 knocks the socks off of most current GI Joe vehicles. The new firefox... er, night raven was a little silly... sorry.

Agreed

Is there any chance of Hasbro creating a modern skystriker? I mean has anything been said recently in any of the Q & A's?
I am getting tired of spending the GDP of a small country picking up vintage stuff on EvilBay and trying to piece them together part by part.
BTW what is a fair price for a complete Skystriker anyway?

Hasbro GI Joe 2010 October QnA Answers (http://www.toyark.com/news/gi-joe-toy-news-11/hasbro-gi-joe-2010-october-qna-answers-3414/)

like Tron 2 maybe Top Gun 2 can result in a trilogy of exciting new movies + toys. Hasbro has Paramount's phone # so they can talk about it. The movie did center on the Skystriker's inspiration = F-14 vs. classic A-6 jets. So that formula might work in Top Gun 2, classic F-14s vs. new F/A-18s. Top Gun 3, new F/A-18 vs. newer F-35C. Top Gun 4 newer F-35C vs. newest X-47B. Hasbro can then milk repaints on all them jets for Joe; Renegades line, movie line, 30th, 40th, 50th anniversary line. Again Hasbro has Paramount's #

It was F-14A Tomcats VS A-4 Skyhawks(Mongoose configuration). If Top Gun 2 went the F-14 route it would most likely be CG, operating costs for the Tomcats was uber expensive, with 40 hours maintenance time per 1 hour of flight. IF Hasbro were to make a Top Gun F-14 this may also mean that each time they make an F-14 using that mold, they'd have to pay Paramount for licensing fees.

The lost or destroyed molds story is a easy out, but if they really wanted to they could get one off of Ebay or some online store and then make a master mold of one and end of mold story. I am suprised that nobody has made a attempt at one. I remember somebody did a clear firebat so it will be only a matter of time before somebody will take the task of doing a skystryker.

Retro-casting/molding is more expensive than making an all new mold from scratch, based on the original toy. The latter was done with the 25th Ghost HAWK and Sting Raider.

What are the odds that Hasbro may release other vehicles that may not need much redesign to fit the 25th or newer figs? I tried several figs in a couple of my older vehicles(moray, whale, tomahawk) and they seem to fit okay. other than the pegs.

It all depends on what they still have in usable/un-damaged condition. Moray they have, but it ought to be retooled with tighter tolerances because the 2005 or 06 one I got was a freaking MESS. Quality control was horrible on that one. WHALE was planned for 96 release but canceled, it may still be in usable condition, no idea on the Tomahawk, but being that the original Raven mold is still in Hasbro's possession, perhaps the Tomahawk is too.

Honestly I'm quite surprised we haven't seen any reuse of Battle Corps tooling yet.

Big vehicles don't sell. Hasbro has told us this. Several times.

For every three people on here who says they'd buy one, one guy will, one is lying, and one can't afford it. The rest complain about the price and will wait until it hits clearance or a discount store like Ross.

No, small under par vehicles sold at large vehicle price points don't sell. Hasbro can no longer depend on the name "GI JOE" to sell a vehicle, not when their competition makes better vehicles. Unfortunately, even though the design team can make something that blows the socks off of the ROC Night Raven, the under performing ROC Raven coupled with the stigma of ROC toys warming mass market retail and showing up in abundance at closeout retai, even until nowl, does not bode well for future vehicles. It will take a while but hopefully Hasbro can regain the confidence of mass market retailers.

I plan to get a Skystriker at some point, but i agree with the others that a new one will be a modern fighter.

Isn't the Thunderwing an F22?

A bloated one with small wings. The True Heroes Raptor is better and cheaper, get that one.

All of your feedback is very interesting.
But i remember visiting China on a business trip not too long ago and one of my stops was a plastic injection molding facility. When i had inquired about creating a dye from scratch, i was given a fee of approximately 10,000 usd. So i dont buy the old broken mold- limited number story either. This seems like a paltry sum for a behemoth like Hasbro.
I am confident that they will be able to sell enough F-14's or F-22's, or whatever modern era fighter is in our arsenal these days. Why buy another themes toys when it is joe that we want, and nostalgize for.
But i truly believe that the "TomCat" as an air superiority fighter is in a class of its own. And there can never be a replacement for our belove '83 skystriker.
Hasbro wake up and give your fandom what they want.

I agree, and while there are things that they can do to keep costs down and push the thing out, there are things they won't do, because they want to make a profit. A company can keep going with that practice if they are the only game in town, but right now the main thing they have a firm grasp on is mass market military fantasy small scale figures. Vehicles & playsets? PTE does them better, True Heroes has a few good releases and SKO has a lot of potential.

Maybe when GI Joe is as popular as Star Wars and/or Transformers it'll happen.

Even then I still think the vintage Night Raven has a better shot. Why? Not only does Hasbro still have the original mold, but they still have the copyrights to the name. Skystriker copyright has not been renewed in years. Not to mention even when the ROC Raven ended up becoming a vehicle the majority of the fandom didn't like, it was still quite evident that the majority still had plenty of love left for the vintage Raven. The desire is there. What better year to release it than next year?

Grepdogg
01-24-2011, 05:40 AM
Did someone say that a CLEAR FIREBAT was casted?????

I want pictures, names, contacts ASAP. PM me.

Mainframe
01-24-2011, 06:33 AM
Ya never know.............

vapor
01-24-2011, 06:45 AM
habro is really giving us hit and miss products, i really wish they would just go back and finish the modern line, take a gamble and re-release bigger vehicles, eff it, just retool them and give them to us already, i really think the sales would do better then most people say, i know we whine about prices but look what they are offering us.

Jmacq1
01-24-2011, 07:47 AM
habro is really giving us hit and miss products, i really wish they would just go back and finish the modern line, take a gamble and re-release bigger vehicles, eff it, just retool them and give them to us already, i really think the sales would do better then most people say, i know we whine about prices but look what they are offering us.

"I really wish Hasbro would deliberately lose money on the Joe line just to give a collector base that's not large enough to keep even smaller vehicles on mass retail shelves what they want."

Even if everyone registered on the 'Tank bought one of each "big vehicle" at full retail price (which would NEVER happen), it would likely be considered a failed item by mass retail standards.

Of course, as I said, not everyone on the tank would buy one at full retail...many would wait for clearance and many others would refuse to buy at all, whether for space concerns, financial concerns, or because in their minds the item still didn't measure up in some way (How dare they add unobtrusive launching guns to the WHALE!). Even the relative few that would buy multiples of certain items wouldn't be enough to make up the difference.

Sadly, a few fans saying "I really think sales would do better" isn't enough for Hasbro, a for-profit business, to take the risk on, and rightly so. Yeah, it sucks we probably won't get modern versions of these items, but it beats the alternative of driving the last financial nail into ARAH-themed Joe's coffin.

Unclassified
01-24-2011, 08:18 AM
Did someone say that a CLEAR FIREBAT was casted?????

I want pictures, names, contacts ASAP. PM me.

yeah, if they make one for the sky striker, i know where i'm getting wonder woman her jet from..

Shogi
01-24-2011, 09:38 AM
habro is really giving us hit and miss products, i really wish they would just go back and finish the modern line, take a gamble and re-release bigger vehicles, eff it, just retool them and give them to us already, i really think the sales would do better then most people say, i know we whine about prices but look what they are offering us.

They gave us a Rattler and a Conquest, then gave them to us again in their subteam colors and they all went to clearance. They even put the gunner's canopy back into the Rattler (It had previously been retooled off the plane)

We also got classic smaller vehicles that also went to clearance, like the Awestriker, Hiss, Sharc & Armadillo (I'm only referring to the ones that were in their orginal colors, not even mentioning the ones that were in different colors)

Do you see a pattern here? Hasbro releases classic vehicles and they don't sell. Some of them sell as well as the ROC Night Raven, that tells retailers & Hasbro that vehicles are hard to sell and bigger ones take up more space that could be used by many more smaller items

I think the reason people say we're getting hit or miss products is because you can't please everyone all the time & re-releasing classic vehicles hasn't always done so in the past.

Now show me some proof where a larger GI Joe vehicle will sell well and maybe I'll start to agree with you (honestly, at this point I think the only real proof that could be made would be in the form of pre-orders since anyone can click yes on a poll, but only few will part with their money)

speedocub
01-24-2011, 09:45 AM
"I really wish Hasbro would deliberately lose money on the Joe line just to give a collector base that's not large enough to keep even smaller vehicles on mass retail shelves what they want."

Even if everyone registered on the 'Tank bought one of each "big vehicle" at full retail price (which would NEVER happen), it would likely be considered a failed item by mass retail standards.

Of course, as I said, not everyone on the tank would buy one at full retail...many would wait for clearance and many others would refuse to buy at all, whether for space concerns, financial concerns, or because in their minds the item still didn't measure up in some way (How dare they add unobtrusive launching guns to the WHALE!). Even the relative few that would buy multiples of certain items wouldn't be enough to make up the difference.

Sadly, a few fans saying "I really think sales would do better" isn't enough for Hasbro, a for-profit business, to take the risk on, and rightly so. Yeah, it sucks we probably won't get modern versions of these items, but it beats the alternative of driving the last financial nail into ARAH-themed Joe's coffin.


Regardless of whether it hits clearance at retail is irrelevant, Hasbro already gets their money when they sell it to said retailer...it's not good for sales reports but Hasbro gets exactly what they want out of selling to the retailer, clearance isn't the problem. If a retailer wants to clearance something, they may loose money, make a smaller profit or break even. It's overstock or new stock that doesn't make it to retail and ends up in the hands of discounters that take the product from Hasbro at sub-wholesale prices, thats where "we" loose.

KrymsynGardImmoral
01-24-2011, 09:46 AM
I am gonna go out on a limb and say I bet we see a Skystriker by the time the 30th anniversary of RAH comes around. There is soooo much to be negative about, I'm going to be positive about this. maybe we'll even see a popular, well publicized exclusive out of it.

Desert Cat
01-24-2011, 10:03 AM
To answer the 2nd part of your question, you can sometimes luck up on a decent Skystriker for around $40 to $50 on ebay. That would be one that is maybe missing a few items like parachutes, missiles, seats, landing gear cover, and/or any of the smaller components.
A nearly complete one (most likely missing the parachutes) will run you about $70 to $90.
A complete Skystriker will set you back around $120 to $140.
BE CAREFUL! Some have been painted to hide the yellowing that usually affects older plastic toys that are molded in white.

cmderinchief
01-24-2011, 10:19 AM
I am gonna go out on a limb and say I bet we see a Skystriker by the time the 30th anniversary of RAH comes around. There is soooo much to be negative about, I'm going to be positive about this. maybe we'll even see a popular, well publicized exclusive out of it.

Oh, now that is just crazy talk! :-P

cmderinchief
01-24-2011, 10:22 AM
Did someone say that a CLEAR FIREBAT was casted?????

I want pictures, names, contacts ASAP. PM me.

Sorry to double-tap this thread when I darn well know how to use multiquote....

Anyway, I think you may be referring to the vac metal Firebat from the CanJoeCon guys. Hit up joecanuck.com for its newsletter and there is a pic there. It still may be on eBay if you do a search.

ChaplainAsst
01-24-2011, 10:36 AM
There WAS rumored a SkyStriker in the works for Resolute (a YF-23, I believe) but since Renegades began, I think that plan is out - unless a Sky Striker shows up in the new cartoon.

Jmacq1
01-24-2011, 10:46 AM
Regardless of whether it hits clearance at retail is irrelevant, Hasbro already gets their money when they sell it to said retailer...it's not good for sales reports but Hasbro gets exactly what they want out of selling to the retailer, clearance isn't the problem. If a retailer wants to clearance something, they may loose money, make a smaller profit or break even. It's overstock or new stock that doesn't make it to retail and ends up in the hands of discounters that take the product from Hasbro at sub-wholesale prices, thats where "we" loose.

You're missing one key point here: Hasbro may make their money when they sell to the retailer, but if the items Hasbro sells them have to be clearanced out in significant numbers, that makes the retailers less likely to buy future product from Hasbro. Case in point: Target doesn't even carry Bravo vehicles now, and for the moment it's looking like any ideas for "large vehicles" for this brand are being laughed at by retailers. Hasbro has to consider the future of the line beyond just "make a few collectors happy now." It's just like the classic 25th/ME argument: Where does Hasbro go after they've updated all of the ARAH figures that most people can agree they want (read: 82-most of 87, with a few bits and pieces from later years)? Start delving into Eco-Warriors, Ninja Force, Star Brigade, and Battle Corps? Hasbro can't stay "classic" forever.

In any case: Putting out large vehicles (regardless of classic inspiration or not) that end up getting clearanced out in large numbers could in fact effectively "end" the G.I. Joe line as we know it. A line that's already apparently barely hanging on by a thread if you believe most of the doom and gloom being tossed around here.

Of course, that's presuming retailers would buy the stuff to begin with, which as we can see, is probably not the case in the current retail environment. I'm sure if all it took was the Joe development team to say "we want to make this" we'd have gotten classic updates of virtually the entire ARAH run by now...but that's not how it works. Retailers have to play ball too, and right now, they're playing slow pitch softball with G.I. Joe. Heck, they're practically playing tee-ball.

I am gonna go out on a limb and say I bet we see a Skystriker by the time the 30th anniversary of RAH comes around. There is soooo much to be negative about, I'm going to be positive about this. maybe we'll even see a popular, well publicized exclusive out of it.

While it's nice to see some optimism, I think Hasbro's QnA answer posted above kind of spells it out for us: Whatever Hasbro has planned for the 30th anniversary at this point, it doesn't likely include any remakes of large vehicles.

sgt.rock
01-24-2011, 10:56 AM
They gave us a Rattler and a Conquest, then gave them to us again in their subteam colors and they all went to clearance. They even put the gunner's canopy back into the Rattler (It had previously been retooled off the plane)

We also got classic smaller vehicles that also went to clearance, like the Awestriker, Hiss, Sharc & Armadillo (I'm only referring to the ones that were in their orginal colors, not even mentioning the ones that were in different colors)

Do you see a pattern here? Hasbro releases classic vehicles and they don't sell. Some of them sell as well as the ROC Night Raven, that tells retailers & Hasbro that vehicles are hard to sell and bigger ones take up more space that could be used by many more smaller items

I think the reason people say we're getting hit or miss products is because you can't please everyone all the time & re-releasing classic vehicles hasn't always done so in the past.

Now show me some proof where a larger GI Joe vehicle will sell well and maybe I'll start to agree with you (honestly, at this point I think the only real proof that could be made would be in the form of pre-orders since anyone can click yes on a poll, but only few will part with their money)

Agreed, however a lot of these vehicles mentioned i think were geared to the collector fan base, or 80's kids, that knocked around the idea of purchasing these vehicles just for the sake of nostalgia. (Most just wait for the discount store landfill markdown) The reality is that most of these vintage vehicles don't appeal to modern day kids, and make no sense on a play battlefield. Lets face it most kids today lack the imagination of us grown up kids. Its the dumbing down of America theory.
Now fast forward, and paint the Rattler A-10 in a digital camo pattern, or better yet a new stealth raven in a PTE quality and then Hasbro may have something.

Hmheggins2000
01-24-2011, 11:06 AM
Sorry to double-tap this thread when I darn well know how to use multiquote....

Anyway, I think you may be referring to the vac metal Firebat from the CanJoeCon guys. Hit up joecanuck.com for its newsletter and there is a pic there. It still may be on eBay if you do a search.

Someone sold it on ebay as a wonderwoman invisible jet I saw it here on the tank before they changed the customs picture setting. It was made last summer I think

speedocub
01-24-2011, 11:11 AM
You're missing one key point here: Hasbro may make their money when they sell to the retailer, but if the items Hasbro sells them have to be clearanced out in significant numbers, that makes the retailers less likely to buy future product from Hasbro. Case in point: Target doesn't even carry Bravo vehicles now, and for the moment it's looking like any ideas for "large vehicles" for this brand are being laughed at by retailers.

In other words: Putting out large vehicles (regardless of classic inspiration or not) that end up getting clearanced out in large numbers could in fact effectively "end" the G.I. Joe line as we know it. A line that's already apparently barely hanging on by a thread if you believe most of the doom and gloom being tossed around here.

Of course, that's presuming retailers would buy the stuff to begin with, which as we can see, is probably not the case in the current retail environment. I'm sure if all it took was the Joe development team to say "we want to make this" we'd have gotten classic updates of virtually the entire ARAH run by now...but that's not how it works. Retailers have to play ball too, and right now, they're playing slow pitch softball with G.I. Joe. Heck, they're practically playing tee-ball.



I get it, really I do. You have a point...but how many Bravos did we get with the ROC line? It was a horrible line with 5 vehicles only having 2 tied into the movie...they didn't sell well because the product was not completely relevant to the media, I don't blame them. But in the previous line, how much actually made it to clearance??? I dont remember seeing one Hiss Tank, not even an Awe Striker, Sting Raider, or Sharc, Firebat Vamp not even the Trouble Bubble RAM set. Sure they sit at TJ Maxx two years later and don't move...but not at retail. I also remember it being very hard to find a Rattler and Conquest at clearance prices. Tiger force and Python patrol are "acquired tastes" so them ending at clearance at the end of the "line" should have been no surprise.

But all in all, the original retooled vehicles sell. It's this reissued and re purposed stuff with no media tie in that gets clearanced. No way will a Skystriker hit clearance...unless they screw it up.

Hmheggins2000
01-24-2011, 11:19 AM
The large vehicles dont sell theory is a half truth because Ross has been selling those sand serpents like hotcakes. Hasbro stepped away from their older fan base and have placed more effort on yonger kids with their clone wars, Transformers and Iron Man. It could be done if they wanted to but they waist time and money on repaints/retooling of easy cast vehicles like the firebat, snowcat, awe strikers and sharks. The flood the market with these vehicles and then complain when sells are down. People are not buying because they already have what they are trying to sell us.

Shogi
01-24-2011, 11:32 AM
The large vehicles dont sell theory is a half truth because Ross has been selling those sand serpents like hotcakes. Hasbro stepped away from their older fan base and have placed more effort on yonger kids with their clone wars, Transformers and Iron Man. It could be done if they wanted to but they waist time and money on repaints/retooling of easy cast vehicles like the firebat, snowcat, awe strikers and sharks. The flood the market with these vehicles and then complain when sells are down. People are not buying because they already have what they are trying to sell us.

I'd say your post is a half truth. If the Sand Serpents had been released at regular retail they'd be sitting around shelves for over a year and then start sitting on TJ Maxx shelves like the Night Raven is currently doing.

The main reason the Sand Serpent is selling like hotcakes is that all the collectors either want a "cancelled" item or want to get rich selling a "cancelled" item. It also helps that these are not being released nationwide (since there aren't Ross stores in every state) and that a lot of the stores that are getting them, are only getting a few of them (3 or less) Admittedly, California seems to be getting way more per store.

Tuskegee Joe
01-24-2011, 11:38 AM
Its F-14A vs. A-4 Skyhawks...If Top Gun 2 went F-14...operating costs...uber expensive...40 hours maintenance...per hour...IF Hasbro were to make a Top Gun F-14 this may also mean that each time they make an F-14 using that mold, they'd have to pay Paramount...

My appreciation for catching the typo (A-4 Skyhawks are not A-6 Intruders obviously). Top Gun 2 may still economically film "display" F-14s as they sit, taxi or pushed in neutral, or just towed around. Hopefully F-14s will be there (so whoever nabs Top Gun 2 toy licenses can make 'em).

Likely it may be the F/A-18 vs. F-16 Fighting Falcons. Those "Aggressor Falcons" would actually make very nice toy jets too; many cool repaints. Thumbnail below show some of those great looking Aggressor F-16s from the real Top Gun...

Will it pay Hasbro to license with Paramount? That's really up to Hasbro to make that assessment / business call. One positive thing those 2 old partners got going for them; are retailers tendency to jump band-wagon on almost any movie toyline. So its almost a sure shot sale; at least from manufacturer to retailer. George Lucas allowed Hasbro to reuse / repaint multiple vehicle molds of his movies for Joe. So it has been done before. Once again, its Hasbro's call.

5h4rK
01-24-2011, 11:41 AM
21.99$ for a brand new one! Interested??
http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-joe-toys-vintage-discussion/95019-1984-jc-penney-christmas-catalog-images.html

fogger1138
01-24-2011, 11:41 AM
Not only does Hasbro still have the original mold, but they still have the copyrights to the name. Skystriker copyright has not been renewed in years.

It's not possible to copyright a name. They'd still have the trademark for the Night Raven, and not for the Skystriker.

Jmacq1
01-24-2011, 11:42 AM
My appreciation for catching the typo (A-4 Skyhawks are not A-6 Intruders obviously). Top Gun 2 may still economically film "display" F-14s as they sit, taxi in neutral, or just tow around. Hopefully the F-14 will still be there (so whoever nabs the Top Gun 2 toy license will make 'em).

Likely it may be the F/A-18 vs. F-16 Fighting Falcons. Those "Aggressor Falcons" would actually make very nice toy jets too; many cool repaints. The thumbnail below are just some of the Aggressor F-16 Falcons from the real Top Gun...

Whether it pays Hasbro to license with Paramount (as they did + still to do) its really up to Hasbro's own business call. One positive thing those 2 old partners got going for them; are retailers' tendency to jump band-wagon on almost any movie toyline! So its almost a sure sale at least from manufacturer to retailer. Also, George Lucas allowed Hasbro to reuse multiple vehicle molds of his movies for Joe. So it has been done before. Once again, its Hasbro's call.

Forgive me if I highly doubt that Top Gun 2 is going to be a major toy property for Hasbro or anyone else. "Pure military" movies rarely get major toy tie-ins these days, if at all. It's the "fantastic" stuff that gets the toy tie-ins.

Jmacq1
01-24-2011, 11:50 AM
I get it, really I do. You have a point...but how many Bravos did we get with the ROC line? It was a horrible line with 5 vehicles only having 2 tied into the movie...they didn't sell well because the product was not completely relevant to the media, I don't blame them. But in the previous line, how much actually made it to clearance??? I dont remember seeing one Hiss Tank, not even an Awe Striker, Sting Raider, or Sharc, Firebat Vamp not even the Trouble Bubble RAM set. Sure they sit at TJ Maxx two years later and don't move...but not at retail. I also remember it being very hard to find a Rattler and Conquest at clearance prices. Tiger force and Python patrol are "acquired tastes" so them ending at clearance at the end of the "line" should have been no surprise.

But all in all, the original retooled vehicles sell. It's this reissued and re purposed stuff with no media tie in that gets clearanced. No way will a Skystriker hit clearance...unless they screw it up.

I can speak from my own experience: The HISS, SHARC (especially), Firebat, and to a lesser extent the VAMP and Trouble Bubble/RAM all collected a good bit of dust in initial rotation around these parts, and seemingly particularly at Target stores (for whatever reason). Which as you might recall, was the primary reason that the Ghost Hawk/Sting Raider wave was "shorted" to retailers, and the 5th wave (Stinger wave) was nearly canceled altogether. Do you honestly think these things would have happened if the 25th Bravo vehicles were selling like hotcakes like you seem to think they were? No, it wouldn't. If retailers think a product is going to sell...they buy it. They didn't think Wave 5 was going to sell...so they didn't, even though it contained one of the most "collector desired" vehicles thus far (The Stinger).

As for the Skystriker: Define "screw it up?" Is "screwing it up" adding any sort of action feature to appeal to kids? Is "screwing it up" giving it a price tag that gives Hasbro and Retailers a healthy profit margin as opposed to closeout retailer prices (I suspect this would be seen as the #1 "screw up" by the community...they wouldn't want to pay $50+ for it...they'd want it for $25 or $30, and would wait until it reached that price, whether on clearance or at closeout retailers).

I say precisely the opposite: A Skystriker would absolutely end up on clearance and/or closeout, because Hasbro wouldn't change their entire business model and desired profit margin just to make us happy, and the vehicle itself is going to have minimal appeal to anyone outside of old-school collectors (it's not based on a modern aircraft and has no current media tie-in).

speedocub
01-24-2011, 12:11 PM
I can speak from my own experience: The HISS, SHARC (especially), Firebat, and to a lesser extent the VAMP and Trouble Bubble/RAM all collected a good bit of dust in initial rotation around these parts, and seemingly particularly at Target stores (for whatever reason). Which as you might recall, was the primary reason that the Ghost Hawk/Sting Raider wave was "shorted" to retailers, and the 5th wave (Stinger wave) was nearly canceled altogether. Do you honestly think these things would have happened if the 25th Bravo vehicles were selling like hotcakes like you seem to think they were? No, it wouldn't. If retailers think a product is going to sell...they buy it. They didn't think Wave 5 was going to sell...so they didn't, even though it contained one of the most "collector desired" vehicles thus far (The Stinger).

As for the Skystriker: Define "screw it up?" Is "screwing it up" adding any sort of action feature to appeal to kids? Is "screwing it up" giving it a price tag that gives Hasbro and Retailers a healthy profit margin as opposed to closeout retailer prices (I suspect this would be seen as the #1 "screw up" by the community...they wouldn't want to pay $50+ for it...they'd want it for $25 or $30, and would wait until it reached that price, whether on clearance or at closeout retailers).

I say precisely the opposite: A Skystriker would absolutely end up on clearance and/or closeout, because Hasbro wouldn't change their entire business model and desired profit margin just to make us happy, and the vehicle itself is going to have minimal appeal to anyone outside of old-school collectors (it's not based on a modern aircraft and has no current media tie-in).

What I said was I didn't see them clearanced. Wave 5 became an online wave. Why retailers didn't buy more of the wave 4 vehicles, I don't know...but they were not clearanced and that was my only point.

How I define screw up is simple. The original Skystriker was made with different plastic and contained an action feature with springs. Those springs are exposed and I think it's going to be difficult for them to get away with releasing it exactly as it was...so they'll retool it. If the retooling results in it becoming less desirable to folks and the softer plastic results in long term issues...thats what I mean.

The sunbow cartoons are currently running on cable, that is enough media tie in for me. And regardless of it being a current model in use today??? Thats irrelevant, as there is no SkySweeper, Dragonhawk, Rage, HISS V...nothing...it's all fantasy and the fact that the Skystriker has some resemblance to a real jet is purely coincidental.

krisk
01-24-2011, 01:10 PM
Ok so we all agree that if Hasbro was to do a skystriker it would have to be remolded. Now with the media tie-in, isn't there a comic book series being put out at IDW right now that is doing the older joe stuff and what about the main line comic and the vs cobra series stuff. There seems to be different tie-ins out there available.
Now I know that Hasbro wants to tie everything together, thats why they keep saying Renegades will be a part of POC. However, part of the fantastic part of Joeverse is that they always have more than 1 task going on at anytime. So how about them doing a internet-DTC exclusives with pre-orders and call that line...wait for it...Yep...G.I. joe Special Missions...OMG that sounds really familiar...hmm oh well. This way Hasbro could release items that may be unrealted to the current movie, POC line but still give some vehicles and figs that a strong collector base does want and If the price is right kids will get the items. I mean the $99 PIT did sell ok, and the 25th vehicles did sell well to just all the repaints were over the top, same goes with figs.

krisk
01-24-2011, 01:16 PM
Also look at what the AT-AT did I saw 3 different verisons of it at toysrus. I have always felt that the last 10-15 years of the Joeverse they hvae put out some very nice vehicles and some very nice figs but for every single desired fig or vehicle they put out 3 crazy items--Extereme, the ones with huge ass sound boxes, manimals, so on. Yes I understand that this is a toy, I am not complaining about all the built in sounds, spring loaded weapons, pistol grip features...hell I love my ROC night raven and I have 6 sand serps. I just wish the night raven had been black.

Jmacq1
01-24-2011, 01:29 PM
Ok so we all agree that if Hasbro was to do a skystriker it would have to be remolded. Now with the media tie-in, isn't there a comic book series being put out at IDW right now that is doing the older joe stuff and what about the main line comic and the vs cobra series stuff. There seems to be different tie-ins out there available.
Now I know that Hasbro wants to tie everything together, thats why they keep saying Renegades will be a part of POC. However, part of the fantastic part of Joeverse is that they always have more than 1 task going on at anytime. So how about them doing a internet-DTC exclusives with pre-orders and call that line...wait for it...Yep...G.I. joe Special Missions...OMG that sounds really familiar...hmm oh well. This way Hasbro could release items that may be unrealted to the current movie, POC line but still give some vehicles and figs that a strong collector base does want and If the price is right kids will get the items. I mean the $99 PIT did sell ok, and the 25th vehicles did sell well to just all the repaints were over the top, same goes with figs.

Hasbro tried the DTC model with G.I. Joe before. They did it in a time when G.I. Joe was shifting away from a more "classic" inspired theme to something that was a "re-imagining" of G.I. Joe (sound familiar?). Fans/Collectors cried and exclaimed "How can you do this?!? Put out the stuff we want and we'll buy it!" Hasbro continued the pre-existing Joe line as a DTC line sold online-only (at least to start). It was such a tremendous failure that they basically swore off doing DTC for several years, and even now remain extremely leery of the prospect.

Nevermind the basic fact that the lower the production run on an item, the higher the cost-per-unit. A DTC Online-only Skystriker would probably run $60-$75 apiece at a bare minimum, and I really don't see a large chunk of the usual crowd around here considering that "the right price." There's a reason there's a "markup" on almost all those online-exclusives that you see. Or that MotUC figures cost $20 apiece retail.

Most people would take a look at it and say "Ehn, it'll be at Ross/TJ Maxx in a year, I can get it then."

Oh, and the AT-AT isn't G.I. Joe. It's Star Wars, which operates on a whole different level virtually all its' own as far as retailers (and Hasbro) are concerned. Success for the AT-AT in no way whatsoever translates into success for a Skystriker.

Phalsis
01-24-2011, 02:50 PM
Even the large scale Star Wars vehicles have'nt sold as well as Hasbro would have liked. The licensing for Star Wars is very expensive, far more than Joe. Which only increases the costs of these large scale vehicles. I think from my own retailer perspective that the large scale vehicles will only be a 'one a year' special type of sale from Hasbro. Most likely for the holidays toy rush. It costs so much to manufacture,box,and distribute these massive toys that it's just not as cost effective as it use to be in the 80's when giant toys were fairly common.
Anyway, the smaller to mid sized vehciels and sets seem to sell a lot a better. You can put more HISS tanks per shelf than Sky Strikers, and thustly sell more per shelf. I would love to see the SkyStriker again, in any form of modern combat jet. It would sell, just not in large numbers. It would retail, spectualtively around $60.00-$80.00 each. Taking into account all the costs going into making it and boxing it.
Maybe as an exclusive, maybe as a mail off or internet special? Such as the Rattler and X-30? But even then, those two jets were almost half the size of the Sky Striker and most likely cheaper to make and sold very well.
But who knows what Hasbro may announce? We may all get surprised by the end of the year.

krisk
01-24-2011, 03:01 PM
Phalsis,
I agree on most of what you said, but if you follow the trainof thought that most people are saying they are tired of seeing hiss, vamp, mole pod, and undersized vehicles. Even if a new redone skystriker of fighter jet is out of the questions due to all the moving parts and stuff then why not do a whale or even more likely a moray (with out the hydrofoil stuff under it). those would be cheaper to produce and give new but troow back to yesterday.

krisk
01-24-2011, 03:09 PM
sorry trying to eat and type. train of thought, throw back, and (or fighter jet).

But what the point I am trying to make: if hasbro can make a new whale or moray, they have fewer moving parts and are basically big pieces of plastic mounted together.

sgcaper
01-24-2011, 03:41 PM
I'd like to jump in here and while I haven't read every post I will say this, Hasbro knows what will and won't sell. Someone here said that for each 3 people who say they'd buy something: 1 will, 1 is lying, 1 can't afford it. That pretty much sums it up.
Look at what happened to the ROC command center, I'm not talking about our critiques about it but the fact that it just didn't sell. Parents aren't buying things that size anymore. With prices of oil on the rise so will the price of plastic. With the average home size on the decline so will the storage space for toys. With the continued move toward PC nonsense the popularity of "war toys" will continue to decline. H knows this stuff. We may want a skystriker but does a kid? Remember H sells TOYS to KIDS if they aren't interested it won't be made. Walk down the toy aisles see what's selling to KIDS.

CornDog_The_Ninja
01-24-2011, 03:47 PM
Walk down the toy aisles see what's selling to KIDS.

Sadly it's Kung Zhu ninja hamsters for Christ sake.

jediz
01-24-2011, 03:59 PM
My appreciation for catching the typo (A-4 Skyhawks are not A-6 Intruders obviously). Top Gun 2 may still economically film "display" F-14s as they sit, taxi or pushed in neutral, or just towed around. Hopefully F-14s will be there (so whoever nabs Top Gun 2 toy licenses can make 'em).

Likely it may be the F/A-18 vs. F-16 Fighting Falcons. Those "Aggressor Falcons" would actually make very nice toy jets too; many cool repaints. Thumbnail below show some of those great looking Aggressor F-16s from the real Top Gun...

Will it pay Hasbro to license with Paramount? That's really up to Hasbro to make that assessment / business call. One positive thing those 2 old partners got going for them; are retailers tendency to jump band-wagon on almost any movie toyline. So its almost a sure shot sale; at least from manufacturer to retailer. George Lucas allowed Hasbro to reuse / repaint multiple vehicle molds of his movies for Joe. So it has been done before. Once again, its Hasbro's call.

Actually - the only even quasi-flyable f-14's are in storage at AMARG in Arizona, awaiting either destruction or museums. You wanna see one in the air, you can go to Iran.

Paramount only owns the rights to the movie stylized TOP GUN logo. Grumman (now Northrop Grumman) would be the license holder for the plane.

KrymsynGardImmoral
01-24-2011, 04:38 PM
While it's nice to see some optimism, I think Hasbro's QnA answer posted above kind of spells it out for us: Whatever Hasbro has planned for the 30th anniversary at this point, it doesn't likely include any remakes of large vehicles.

I'm gonna continue to hope. A Skystriker would really give some oomph to the Joe line, and inspire potentially more nostalgia than the entire 25th line. OK, maybe I'm being TOO optimistic, but a new Skystriker, especially if it fell into the repaint cycle, would be bad ass. I'd kill for a POC Jungle Skystriker in the old F-4 camo scheme.

And, IF a Skystriker comes out, everyone that doubts me owes me a figure.

Shin Densetsu
01-24-2011, 09:19 PM
It's funny that while people mention that bigger vehicles(not really bigger but smaller vehicles sold at big vehicle prices) won't sell when the issue at hand is that they won't sell because the ones in question are not that good.

You take the Star Wars stigma of being an all encompassing brand with a huge amount of fan support and you still have a VERY fun, yet very detailed, toy, in the new big ATAT. I don't know about you guys but that thing did not make it to clearance in my area. There weren't very many left after Christmas and those that were did not go to clearance.

Aside from that, I've collected Star Wars vehicles from the past few years. Most of them are better than the modern GI Joe vehicles. You take the Star Wars name away, you take away the fact that it's a phenom, and you still have better vehicles. If I buy a Star Wars vehicle, I usually feel it's worth the money. The exception being the Shadow ARC-170 at full price but Hasbro even admitted in Q&A that it was just a sizeclass placeholder until the Clone Wars Y-Wing was released and that charging that price for the Shadow ARC was a mistake. I paid $64+tax for the Y-Wing and it was WORTH IT. Has a lot of heft too, surprisingly. Blows away the original.

The approach Hasbro took with the new Cloud Car, new AT AT, new Snowspeeder, et al(this list can go on), is how new toys based on the original vehicles OUGHT to be done. Hell design aside, they are good toys.

I KNOW Hasbro can make better vehicles for GI Joe, the only question is if they will.

The ROC Raven was a small vehicle sold at a big vehicle price point. Aside from that, even a child can see that the vehicle looks too small for modern Joe figures. Now of course suspension of belief ought to be used when it comes to viewing toys but who is anyone kidding? It's a small vehicle. Would older Joe fans pay $50+ or more for a retooled vintage Raven with a drone? Judging from the reactions I've seen as part of the online Joe community even before HISS Tank, I'd say YES.

The older vehicles weren't to scale for the most part, and it's not a realistic expection for any Joe vehicles(ground ones aside), to be in true 1/18 scale. However what the vintage Raven, Rattler, Skystriker, et al, had going for them was that unlike the ROC Raven, they did not look as small compared to the Joe figures. People decry the joystick but hell Hasbro has shown that they can, and HAVE done it better before.

The Ghoststriker is a far better toy than the ROC Raven. Hasbro made that 15+ years prior to the ROC Raven. Some can say "oh but Shin kids want electro..." the Ghoststriker had MORE electronics and believe it or not the price point was similar. I think the Ghoststriker was ahead of it's time, unlike Hasbro's Flying Fighters line, the Ghoststriker had illuminated gimmicks like the projecting crosshairs, et al. The Thunderwing took influence from it but I still think the Ghoststriker did it better.

Now mind you, the Ghoststriker is not perfect(proportions), but I still like it. Man I should not have passed on it during Christmas 93. Can't believe I chose Armor Tech Star Brigade figures over those.

I'd like to jump in here and while I haven't read every post I will say this, Hasbro knows what will and won't sell. Someone here said that for each 3 people who say they'd buy something: 1 will, 1 is lying, 1 can't afford it. That pretty much sums it up.
Look at what happened to the ROC command center, I'm not talking about our critiques about it but the fact that it just didn't sell. Parents aren't buying things that size anymore. With prices of oil on the rise so will the price of plastic. With the average home size on the decline so will the storage space for toys. With the continued move toward PC nonsense the popularity of "war toys" will continue to decline. H knows this stuff. We may want a skystriker but does a kid? Remember H sells TOYS to KIDS if they aren't interested it won't be made. Walk down the toy aisles see what's selling to KIDS.

You know what didn't sell to kids? ROC. Case in point? Walk down the toy aisle of ROSS, TJ Maxx, et al. I don't think the issue was so much in price but in design(s) as well. The change in elimination of many kinds of toys in ROC to POC(Fast Action battlers, Talking big figures, 12" figures, mini role play items, Action Rollers or whatever those were called, Combat Heroes) is a telling sign that what Hasbro thought were brilliant ideas in 2009 for ROC, didn't do so hot. Like it or not folks, I think it's safe to say that the ROC Raven DOOMED the Echo size class, even if that vehicle was actually too small to be echo class. Thank goodness the bravos still kept going despite the fact that Hasbro was charging $10 more than the original price for the DTC Ice Sabre and VVV Sky Sweeper(in ROC as the Ice Sabre and Crimson Hydra respectively).

Vehicles like the POC Bravos are a good sign of things to come. New VAMP, new HISS, show that a good direction is being followed with that size class, the POC alphas weren't bad either.

Actually - the only even quasi-flyable f-14's are in storage at AMARG in Arizona, awaiting either destruction or museums. You wanna see one in the air, you can go to Iran.

Paramount only owns the rights to the movie stylized TOP GUN logo. Grumman (now Northrop Grumman) would be the license holder for the plane.

Actually some of the AMARC ones are in standby status should the need for them ever arise.

I'm gonna continue to hope. A Skystriker would really give some oomph to the Joe line, and inspire potentially more nostalgia than the entire 25th line. OK, maybe I'm being TOO optimistic, but a new Skystriker, especially if it fell into the repaint cycle, would be bad ass. I'd kill for a POC Jungle Skystriker in the old F-4 camo scheme.

And, IF a Skystriker comes out, everyone that doubts me owes me a figure.

Dude you are the FIRST person to mention a Skystriker in SEA camo...and for that..I APPLAUD you! I hadn't even thought of that, it would look BAD ASS! SHARK TEETH FOR THE GOD DAMN WIN! I think I should give YOU a free figure for even mentioning that camo.

For 30th I actually think Hasbro is going for a reissue of the vintage Raven, retooled for 25th and possibly with increased tolerances. They still have the trademark(s), still have the mold. Hell if they wanted to make a repaint for more profit, I'd even buy a Sky Raven with MATTE FINISH..because I hate how chrome chips.

Also agreed that a new Skystriker in the repaint cycle would be bad ass.

Tuskegee Joe
01-24-2011, 11:46 PM
Actually - the only even quasi-flyable f-14's are in storage at AMARG awaiting either destruction or museums. You wanna see one in the air, you can go to Iran.

Thanks for your reply. Re-stating my statement below, "display" F-14s can be economically filmed. "Display" can include not only quasi-flyable, yet also, non-flyable F-14s which can cheaply still achieve the following...

...Top Gun 2 may still economically film "display" F-14s as they sit, taxi or be pushed in neutral, or just towed...

Its merely just for the sake of aesthetic familiarity + cinematography. So no need for quasi-flyable F-14s. Again, the flyable jets that may star in Top Gun 2 maybe the far less expensive lower-maintenance costs F/A-18 vs. the F-16s.

Paramount only owns the rights to the movie stylized TOP GUN logo. Grumman (now Northrop Grumman) would be the license holder for the plane.

Another valid point raised. Of which is a question of who exactly holds ownership over those jets. Military jets are purchased / owned by tax-payers e.g. the public. Directly quoting Top Gun "you don't own that plane, the tax-payers do." Debates transpired over this in the heyday of plastic modeling with Monogram, Revelle, Aurora selling many many many model jets. And, no royalties went to Grumman. The argument once again was on who holds ownership of those planes = tax-payers, the public. To complicate matters, private commercial jetliners (who own private jets made by the same companies like Boeing / makers of military jets for the public) encourage free modeling + free toy-making of their private jet liners.

Actually - quasi-flyable f-14's are in storage at AMARG...wanna see one in the air, you can go to Iran.

Great point on AMARG. Flight sequences in the first Top Gun was filmed near NAS Fallon Nevada. AMARG is in close proximity to NAS Fallon Nevada; next door neighbor / state. No need to fly to Iran to film a non-flyable F-14. AMARG is just next door to NAS Fallon = the newer home of the real Top Gun. Again, thanks for raising points of valid concern (I'm sure others shared similar doubts). Like the successful Tron 2, I hope others see some of the real possibilities in a Top Gun 2...

krisk
01-25-2011, 12:07 AM
thanks shin! now if only hasbro listens to anybody outside of their offices.

Grepdogg
01-25-2011, 12:09 AM
Ahem, I know the difference between CLEAR and Vacu-metal aka chromed.

While each are cool in their own respects, the Clear Firebat sounds incredible to me. If anyone even has pics of this beast - post them or hook a brother up. Thanks!

Tuskegee Joe
01-25-2011, 01:42 AM
Forgive me if I highly doubt that Top Gun 2 is going to be a major toy property for Hasbro or anyone else. "Pure military" movies rarely get major toy tie-ins these days...

Clearly there's a gaping void in the market, nowadays. Joe witnessed better "days" when his product was made in reaction to (or anticipation of) similar media movie tie-ins. So when Top Gun 2 or G.I. Joe 2 comes out the question may be; what kind of "days" lie ahead?

This year alone, the pull out of Iraq in 2011. In 2014, we comemorate Joe's Golden 50th Anniversary celebrated across generations ("60s kids, "80s kids, "10s kids watching Hub's new toons). Lesson plans across the nation, schools requiring kids to learn more of the 100th Anniversary of WWI, will occur the same year Joe celebrates his golden anniversary in 2014. In 2016, school kids shall commemorate the 75th Anniversary of WWII. Where 3 of 4 of the first Joe figures drew inspiration from "the good fight" of WWII. So maybe a wave of 4-inch M.E. Joes inspired by these anniversaries ahead; is something to consider. With all the anniversaries, there will be a demand + interest in such toys + toons sparking imaginations of kids learning all this at schools across the nation. The Top Gun trilogy of movies (and maybe toys) will come during such a time where such toys maybe more palpable to the public.

Till then, there's clearly a dearth of supply at retail market these days. Agreed. One day the present-day dearth in supply may ultimately meet increased demand + interest in such movies + multiple anniversaries of future days ahead...

KingBiohazerd
01-25-2011, 02:25 AM
I don't see why the would re-make a sky striker if any thing they will go with a modern era jet like the f-22 or some other plane but let's be honest the vamps furys hiss tanks are not selling well specially at 24.99 now think how much a Sky striker would be costing at stores 50.00 60.00 70.00 nope Try 100.00 dollars now some will buy at that price most will not. Plus with the way people sit around here when gyre-viper shows us something new most reply with its awesome I like it but ill wait for clearance or for it to go to ross,tjmax,or marhells so to answer the Question no they will never be a new skystriker if there was I would buy one and be shocked to see it.

Scatman
01-25-2011, 03:14 AM
Has anyone seen this on BBTS?

1/18 United States Navy VF-154 Black Knights - Merit Exclusive Edition (LE 888) - JSI Military Vehicles 1/18 Scale Famous War Birds Series (http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/product.aspx?product=JSI10009&mode=retail)

It's a 1/18 scale F-14 that sells for $275. I think that if Hasbro were to make another Skystriker, it would probably have to be similar to this in design and price and I doubt many people would pay that much (or even half of that) for a new Skystriker.

jediz
01-25-2011, 07:25 PM
Another valid point raised. Of which is a question of who exactly holds ownership over those jets. Military jets are purchased / owned by tax-payers e.g. the public. Directly quoting Top Gun "you don't own that plane, the tax-payers do." Debates transpired over this in the heyday of plastic modeling with Monogram, Revelle, Aurora selling many many many model jets. And, no royalties went to Grumman. The argument once again was on who holds ownership of those planes = tax-payers, the public. To complicate matters, private commercial jetliners (who own private jets made by the same companies like Boeing / makers of military jets for the public) encourage free modeling + free toy-making of their private jet liners.

As far as I know the manufacturer owns the rights to the jet. They designed and built it. The gov't bought it. Just like if you buy a corvette, that doesn't mean you get to sell corvette hot wheels. I have heard that Grumman didn't bother with it, but Boeing on the other hand actively ensures that are receiving royalties when due (F-18 model kits etc..).

Shin Densetsu
01-25-2011, 07:30 PM
As far as I know the manufacturer owns the rights to the jet. They designed and built it. The gov't bought it. Just like if you buy a corvette, that doesn't mean you get to sell corvette hot wheels. I have heard that Grumman didn't bother with it, but Boeing on the other hand actively ensures that are receiving royalties when due (F-18 model kits etc..).

It's true that Boeing is much more aggressive and harder to obtain licenses from.

Northrop Grumman isn't as hard.

krisk
01-25-2011, 07:31 PM
Has anyone seen this on BBTS?

1/18 United States Navy VF-154 Black Knights - Merit Exclusive Edition (LE 888) - JSI Military Vehicles 1/18 Scale Famous War Birds Series (http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/product.aspx?product=JSI10009&mode=retail)

It's a 1/18 scale F-14 that sells for $275. I think that if Hasbro were to make another Skystriker, it would probably have to be similar to this in design and price and I doubt many people would pay that much (or even half of that) for a new Skystriker.

ummm- worldwide distribution of 888, that may have as much drive up on the price as the production cost is a lot higher for limited numbers

jediz
01-25-2011, 07:43 PM
[For 30th I actually think Hasbro is going for a reissue of the vintage Raven, retooled for 25th and possibly with increased tolerances. They still have the trademark(s), still have the mold. Hell if they wanted to make a repaint for more profit, I'd even buy a Sky Raven with MATTE FINISH..because I hate how chrome chips. ]

This would great, that was the last joe toy I bought as a kid. I would love to show my kids what a real joe airplane looks like.

I wonder how likely this is?

Roshan
01-25-2011, 08:15 PM
And, IF a Skystriker comes out, everyone that doubts me owes me a figure.

Well I don't doubt you, but I'll send you a Cystral Ball and Raptor if it does.

Medikeighted
01-25-2011, 11:13 PM
It's true that Boeing is much more aggressive and harder to obtain licenses from.

Northrop Grumman isn't as hard.

that's a shame too, because if they were going to do a Skystriker II, I'd love to see a Joe-Scale Superhornet/Fa-18D/E

My Big Lots had the PTE version over Christmas but I didn't have the extra cash. I think all they have left is the damn Eurocopter. I have it and the AH-6 and they're both just a hair too small for 25th+ GI Joes.

Jmacq1
01-26-2011, 01:16 AM
Clearly there's a gaping void in the market, nowadays. Joe witnessed better "days" when his product was made in reaction to (or anticipation of) similar media movie tie-ins. So when Top Gun 2 or G.I. Joe 2 comes out the question may be; what kind of "days" lie ahead?

This year alone, the pull out of Iraq in 2011. In 2014, we comemorate Joe's Golden 50th Anniversary celebrated across generations ("60s kids, "80s kids, "10s kids watching Hub's new toons). Lesson plans across the nation, schools requiring kids to learn more of the 100th Anniversary of WWI, will occur the same year Joe celebrates his golden anniversary in 2014. In 2016, school kids shall commemorate the 75th Anniversary of WWII. Where 3 of 4 of the first Joe figures drew inspiration from "the good fight" of WWII. So maybe a wave of 4-inch M.E. Joes inspired by these anniversaries ahead; is something to consider. With all the anniversaries, there will be a demand + interest in such toys + toons sparking imaginations of kids learning all this at schools across the nation. The Top Gun trilogy of movies (and maybe toys) will come during such a time where such toys maybe more palpable to the public.

Till then, there's clearly a dearth of supply at retail market these days. Agreed. One day the present-day dearth in supply may ultimately meet increased demand + interest in such movies + multiple anniversaries of future days ahead...

I think you are vastly overestimating the impact these events will have on kids' interest in military toys. We won't be out of Afghanistan, and in truth we won't really be out of Iraq, either (we'll just claim we're not in "combat operations" there anymore, but will likely maintain a military presence of some kind for years, if not decades, to come).

Either way, Top Gun didn't really have a toy tie-in, and I doubt a sequel will either.

Tuskegee Joe
01-26-2011, 02:12 AM
...if you buy a corvette that doesn't mean you get to sell corvette hot wheels...Grumman didn't bother...Boeing on the other hand actively ensures that are receiving royalties when due (F-18 model kits etc..).

Corvette = good example. GM owns Corvette + Camaro. Instead of being paid GM paid a fee to place the Camaro in a Hasbro brand movie; Transformers. So maybe the same can be done for G.I. Joe 2 (for Skystriker 2) or fellow Paramount film Top Gun 2.

Here's an idea. Like the manufacturer GM's sponsorship, whichever manufacturer (Northrop Grumman F-14, Gen. Dynamics F-16, or Boeing F-18) pays the highest sponsorship to G.I. Joe 2 or Top Gun 2; wins having their jet molded as thee "big toy" of either movie's toyline. Also, using the same sum of plastic (or less) than the Pit, some jets can achieve 1:18 scale and still be smaller / cheaper than Pit. Example BBI's F/A-18 in 1/18 has a box weight of only 10 pounds versus 16 pounds of Pit.

Hasbro's business savvy + creativity such as securing sponsors like GM, I'm sure can help to further G.I. Joe 2 (maybe Top Gun 2). Although these are big jets they're still smaller, weigh less, ship less, use less plastic; than the Pit.

Medikeighted
01-26-2011, 04:30 AM
It would be nice if it worked that way but it's an apples to oranges comparison. Product placement in movies for things like Coke, Chevy, Goodyear, or Tide is advertising and helps with brand recognition for things the general public buys and uses and housewives buy at Wal-Mart. Grumman, Boeing, and Lockheed Martin sell multi-million dollar aircraft and they sell them to Airlines and Governments, not people. The fighters they're building now are on contracts already awarded and in the case of the F-16 or A-10 they aren't building any more other than the few F-16's exported to other countries. Since Hasbro did produce the Thunderwing, I would assume they have an agreement in place with Boeing to use the likeness of the Raptor. Considering the number of VvV vehicles they've already re-released for the new style figures, I'd guess it would be the most likely candidate to be released again.

Also, GM may have paid a fee or donated vehicles to Paramount to have their vehicles used in the movie, but when it comes to merchandising it becomes a 3(or more) way. Paramount owns the rights to the movie, Hasbro owns the rights to the transforming robot named Bumblebee, and Chevy owns the Bow Tie logo and the rights to the name Camaro.

Tuskegee Joe
01-26-2011, 05:05 AM
Since Hasbro did produce the Thunderwing, I would assume they have an agreement in place with Boeing to use the likeness of the Raptor.

^^^ Hasbro can perhaps build on this. The good point you raised (on an agreement Hasbro may already have with Boeing) may likewise already exist with Northrop Grumman when making the Skystriker XP-14 too, which looks much like their F-14. So with or without corporate sponsorship, maybe a simple agreement will do. Hasbro's shown they can make a Boeing + Grumman jet in the past. So perhaps Hasbro can come together again with same corporations to make another agreement for future toys or movie sequels...

Jmacq1
01-26-2011, 07:52 AM
Are we sure that Hasbro had any licensing agreements at all in place for the Skystriker, Thunderwing, or Ghost Striker?

Look at the fine print on the boxes...if they're licensed, my understanding is that there should be fine print on the box explaining the origin of the design.

My suspicion is that A: the companies didn't really care and B: Hasbro was willing and/or able to argue that the designs were different enough that it wasn't a direct knockoff (possibly on scale alone, bonus for "action features" and slight alterations to/omission of specific details for the trifecta).

Shogi
01-26-2011, 08:36 AM
Are we sure that Hasbro had any licensing agreements at all in place for the Skystriker, Thunderwing, or Ghost Striker?

Look at the fine print on the boxes...if they're licensed, my understanding is that there should be fine print on the box explaining the origin of the design.

My suspicion is that A: the companies didn't really care and B: Hasbro was willing and/or able to argue that the designs were different enough that it wasn't a direct knockoff (possibly on scale alone, bonus for "action features" and slight alterations to/omission of specific details for the trifecta).

I'll start off with the fact that when the 3 vehicles in question came out, I was too young to worry nor even know about licensing deals so even if they were announced, I wouldn't have heard about them.

That said, The only time I've ever heard about some of the ideas being tossed around here with Hasbro getting the licensing deals of a vehicle maker so they can make toys is with the Transformers Alternators line. Those were (as far as I know) the only toys Hasbro has made where they got licensing rights from an auto maker.

My generic rule of thumb for figuring out these things? If it has the auto maker's logo on it, Hasbro got licensing rights, if it doesn't, then they made their own vehicle that looks like a real vehicle

sgt.rock
01-26-2011, 11:31 AM
10,000 for a dye from scratch. Except that the Skystriker isn't all one piece. That's 10,000 dollars for each -piece- of the mold. That adds up much more quickly. Plus, Hasbro may not use the factory you were visiting...theirs may cost more for a variety of reasons. Depending on how long ago "not too long ago" is, the price may also have gone up considerably. Prices for manufacturing in China have skyrocketed over the past four or five years. Still dirt-cheap compared to manufacturing in, say, America, but a lot of companies are starting to look for alternatives to China...unfortunately for the pocketbooks of consumers, they aren't finding many.

"Copying" an old Skystriker (as suggested above) doesn't negate the cost of making the mold. It also makes an inferior ("Softer") mold. Further, Hasbro has also said that they do not believe the old Skystriker would pass present-day safety and drop-tests. So...yeah, they'd have to do new tooling regardless.

"Not too long ago" is approximately 8 months ago. The factories are begging for business in China, despite what positive spin the media may put on the true state of the economy. Yes, cost may have jumped a bit but we are talking volume discounts here. Its palpable to say that Hasbro is the gorilla and they call the shots with these factories. With all the toy lines H is cranking out. cost of plastic pellet and dye creation for a new realistic "skystriker" is trivial.

habro is really giving us hit and miss products, i really wish they would just go back and finish the modern line, take a gamble and re-release bigger vehicles, eff it, just retool them and give them to us already, i really think the sales would do better then most people say, i know we whine about prices but look what they are offering us.
I could not have said it better. Look at the crap they are giving us. Non scale, tooled down versions of what we dont want. It makes you wonder what ivy league dim wit is running Hasbros "think tank"

They gave us a Rattler and a Conquest, then gave them to us again in their subteam colors and they all went to clearance. They even put the gunner's canopy back into the Rattler (It had previously been retooled off the plane)

We also got classic smaller vehicles that also went to clearance, like the Awestriker, Hiss, Sharc & Armadillo (I'm only referring to the ones that were in their orginal colors, not even mentioning the ones that were in different colors)

Do you see a pattern here? Hasbro releases classic vehicles and they don't sell. Some of them sell as well as the ROC Night Raven, that tells retailers & Hasbro that vehicles are hard to sell and bigger ones take up more space that could be used by many more smaller items

I think the reason people say we're getting hit or miss products is because you can't please everyone all the time & re-releasing classic vehicles hasn't always done so in the past.

Now show me some proof where a larger GI Joe vehicle will sell well and maybe I'll start to agree with you (honestly, at this point I think the only real proof that could be made would be in the form of pre-orders since anyone can click yes on a poll, but only few will part with their money)
Only if Hasbro would stop painting these re releases in these crazy cockamamee tiger patterns perhaps they would have a chance. Preorders are a great idea, however, the time between pre sales and manufacturing is an eternity. interest ebbs and flows and toy lines face the dreaded manufacturers "time slot allotment" as all production has a time chart with other toys shooting down the line. make a modification and you fall out. Starting the process all over.
And you are correct retail shelf space is priceless, a larger vehicle palpably takes up more space but when factored with the increased price as opposed to mini toys, it all balances out on the bottom line. It should in theory anyway, unless the retailer screws things up.

To answer the 2nd part of your question, you can sometimes luck up on a decent Skystriker for around $40 to $50 on ebay. That would be one that is maybe missing a few items like parachutes, missiles, seats, landing gear cover, and/or any of the smaller components.
A nearly complete one (most likely missing the parachutes) will run you about $70 to $90.
A complete Skystriker will set you back around $120 to $140.
BE CAREFUL! Some have been painted to hide the yellowing that usually affects older plastic toys that are molded in white.

Thanks DesertCat, i just pulled the trigger on one on Evilbay

You're missing one key point here: Hasbro may make their money when they sell to the retailer, but if the items Hasbro sells them have to be clearanced out in significant numbers, that makes the retailers less likely to buy future product from Hasbro. Case in point: Target doesn't even carry Bravo vehicles now, and for the moment it's looking like any ideas for "large vehicles" for this brand are being laughed at by retailers. Hasbro has to consider the future of the line beyond just "make a few collectors happy now." It's just like the classic 25th/ME argument: Where does Hasbro go after they've updated all of the ARAH figures that most people can agree they want (read: 82-most of 87, with a few bits and pieces from later years)? Start delving into Eco-Warriors, Ninja Force, Star Brigade, and Battle Corps? Hasbro can't stay "classic" forever.

In any case: Putting out large vehicles (regardless of classic inspiration or not) that end up getting clearanced out in large numbers could in fact effectively "end" the G.I. Joe line as we know it. A line that's already apparently barely hanging on by a thread if you believe most of the doom and gloom being tossed around here.

Of course, that's presuming retailers would buy the stuff to begin with, which as we can see, is probably not the case in the current retail environment. I'm sure if all it took was the Joe development team to say "we want to make this" we'd have gotten classic updates of virtually the entire ARAH run by now...but that's not how it works. Retailers have to play ball too, and right now, they're playing slow pitch softball with G.I. Joe. Heck, they're practically playing tee-ball.



While it's nice to see some optimism, I think Hasbro's QnA answer posted above kind of spells it out for us: Whatever Hasbro has planned for the 30th anniversary at this point, it doesn't likely include any remakes of large vehicles.
Again, a theme we have touched upon a few times here in this thread. Focus on the products the fandom wants. After we are Hasbros eyes and ears. We dont acknowledge the fact of how important we are to any toy company. We know what sells and what consumers want. If they just listened to 1/2 what we say on these forums. We wouldnt be discussing possibilities we'd be discussing realities. And Hasbros bottom line would be a lot healthier.IMO
If i was a big box retailer i too would be playing hard ball with carrying this line. look at all the nonsense they have been putting out lately. Case in point the PIT, the dope that had the brilliancy to revive that thing up should be taken to the rhode island town square and placed on a Greyhound bus back to his alma mater,

I get it, really I do. You have a point...but how many Bravos did we get with the ROC line? It was a horrible line with 5 vehicles only having 2 tied into the movie...they didn't sell well because the product was not completely relevant to the media, I don't blame them. But in the previous line, how much actually made it to clearance??? I dont remember seeing one Hiss Tank, not even an Awe Striker, Sting Raider, or Sharc, Firebat Vamp not even the Trouble Bubble RAM set. Sure they sit at TJ Maxx two years later and don't move...but not at retail. I also remember it being very hard to find a Rattler and Conquest at clearance prices. Tiger force and Python patrol are "acquired tastes" so them ending at clearance at the end of the "line" should have been no surprise.

But all in all, the original retooled vehicles sell. It's this reissued and re purposed stuff with no media tie in that gets clearanced. No way will a Skystriker hit clearance...unless they screw it up.
Exactly!!! The re purposed stuff is a desperate attempt. its the theory of throwing enough shit against the wall, hoping something is going to stick.
I dont remember seeing any hisstanks or rattlers looking lonely at any discount landfill either.

My appreciation for catching the typo (A-4 Skyhawks are not A-6 Intruders obviously). Top Gun 2 may still economically film "display" F-14s as they sit, taxi or pushed in neutral, or just towed around. Hopefully F-14s will be there (so whoever nabs Top Gun 2 toy licenses can make 'em).

Likely it may be the F/A-18 vs. F-16 Fighting Falcons. Those "Aggressor Falcons" would actually make very nice toy jets too; many cool repaints. Thumbnail below show some of those great looking Aggressor F-16s from the real Top Gun...

Will it pay Hasbro to license with Paramount? That's really up to Hasbro to make that assessment / business call. One positive thing those 2 old partners got going for them; are retailers tendency to jump band-wagon on almost any movie toyline. So its almost a sure shot sale; at least from manufacturer to retailer. George Lucas allowed Hasbro to reuse / repaint multiple vehicle molds of his movies for Joe. So it has been done before. Once again, its Hasbro's call.
A Hasbro/Paramount marriage would be a wise assessment for both parties. And us. Based on past history, ie. the Transformer/TRU union, i can see why a retailer would abandon these movie toylines. But if they are able to capture the essence of a movie story line, like a Star Wars or Top Gun and transfer that into a product line. Its a win! On the other hand if you take a train wreck like ROC, well need we say anymore??? It seemed as though they forgot to reread the script on that one, and they were all ready committed with toy manufacturing so they decided to "just go with it," and we see how that turned out.
I have an idea why doesnt Hasbo hire a few of us as consultants for a short time and put us in charge of its Joe Line. We only get paid if we meet some agreed upon expectation quota.
Getting back to the sky striker or a newer realistic aircraft series. Will it get remade? We hope! The reality and future of the Joe line lies in Hasbros hands. They havent gotten it that right as of late, POC aside, but this is too new to assess...


Forgive me if I highly doubt that Top Gun 2 is going to be a major toy property for Hasbro or anyone else. "Pure military" movies rarely get major toy tie-ins these days, if at all. It's the "fantastic" stuff that gets the toy tie-ins.

Jmacq1
01-26-2011, 12:16 PM
"Not too long ago" is approximately 8 months ago. The factories are begging for business in China, despite what positive spin the media may put on the true state of the economy. Yes, cost may have jumped a bit but we are talking volume discounts here. Its palpable to say that Hasbro is the gorilla and they call the shots with these factories. With all the toy lines H is cranking out. cost of plastic pellet and dye creation for a new realistic "skystriker" is trivial.

So it's your position that Hasbro is flat-out lying when they say that new tooling is the most expensive part of their production process.

I could not have said it better. Look at the crap they are giving us. Non scale, tooled down versions of what we dont want. It makes you wonder what ivy league dim wit is running Hasbros "think tank"

Joe has rarely ever been "in scale." But those "Ivy League dim wits" are the type that are keeping their company profitable even in a "down" economy. In other words...the kind doing exactly what good businessmen are supposed to do when running a business.

If "just listen to the collectors and give them everything they want!" were such a sure-fire and foolproof path to massive profits, both Hasbro and the Retailers would be buying into it whole hog.

And yet, they don't. Why is that? Maybe it has less to do with assuming everyone in Hasbro's (and every retailer's) executive structure is a blithering idiot (who somehow manages to help keep the company profitable despite that), and more to do with them having access to the numbers and data we don't, which tells them a different story than what "we" seem to assume based on our purely anecdotal evidence and personal preferences.

Roshan
01-26-2011, 12:26 PM
I have an idea why doesnt Hasbo hire a few of us as consultants for a short time and put us in charge of its Joe Line.

You assume they haven't? Cross out the consultant part, and put in employee. The guys who work on the Joe team are Joe fans and collectors too. But if by 'us' you mean your select group of friends, then no, they probably shouldn't do that.

sgt.rock
01-26-2011, 01:18 PM
So it's your position that Hasbro is flat-out lying when they say that new tooling is the most expensive part of their production process.



Joe has rarely ever been "in scale." But those "Ivy League dim wits" are the type that are keeping their company profitable even in a "down" economy. In other words...the kind doing exactly what good businessmen are supposed to do when running a business.

If "just listen to the collectors and give them everything they want!" were such a sure-fire and foolproof path to massive profits, both Hasbro and the Retailers would be buying into it whole hog.

And yet, they don't. Why is that? Maybe it has less to do with assuming everyone in Hasbro's (and every retailer's) executive structure is a blithering idiot (who somehow manages to help keep the company profitable despite that), and more to do with them having access to the numbers and data we don't, which tells them a different story than what "we" seem to assume based on our purely anecdotal evidence and personal preferences.

Nothing has been stated about taking a position and no body has accused anybody of being a blithering idiot, lets not get ahead of ourselves here, or about lying about P/L numbers either. But when you have product sitting on store shelves and being sold off to discounters en masse, there is a problem, do you not agree?
Perhaps dim wit is a bit harsh, and i apologize if that offended anybody, that was not the intention. What happens in many a corporate structure is that these bright folks are recruited based on a degree. what is not considered is the everyday practicality of these reports and numbers generated. I know, and many others may attest to this because we have been there. You become a "yes" man. Anything and everything revolves around a companies share price. And rightly so when there are shareholders involved. considering the big "H" has an operating margin of just over 10%, considering its market cap, i wouldnt call that "keeping the company profitable" either.
Aside from all this we have taken an extreme detour here from the purpose of this thread. a simple question as to will we see our beloved skystriker again. nothing more.

You assume they haven't? Cross out the consultant part, and put in employee. The guys who work on the Joe team are Joe fans and collectors too. But if by 'us' you mean your select group of friends, then no, they probably shouldn't do that.
Oh no i wouldn't trust any of my pals with designing anything that had to do with Gi Joe. They just dont get it...

Jmacq1
01-26-2011, 01:44 PM
Nothing has been stated about taking a position and no body has accused anybody of being a blithering idiot, lets not get ahead of ourselves here, or about lying about P/L numbers either. But when you have product sitting on store shelves and being sold off to discounters en masse, there is a problem, do you not agree?

Sure. Except plenty of the collector-beloved 25th line ended up at discounters, too. So there goes the "collectors are the sure path to success" idea.

Perhaps dim wit is a bit harsh, and i apologize if that offended anybody, that was not the intention. What happens in many a corporate structure is that these bright folks are recruited based on a degree. what is not considered is the everyday practicality of these reports and numbers generated. I know, and many others may attest to this because we have been there. You become a "yes" man. Anything and everything revolves around a companies share price. And rightly so when there are shareholders involved. considering the big "H" has an operating margin of just over 10%, considering its market cap, i wouldnt call that "keeping the company profitable" either.

Did they turn a profit or not? This isn't a "shades of grey" scenario here. They made a profit, and they did it in a recession when many other companies were NOT turning any sort of profit at all. I mean, if your only benchmark of success is MASSIVE profit and growth in the midst of one of the worst financial meltdowns our country (and to a lesser extent the world) has seen in decades, then there's, very very few companies that have managed that, and I would say you have extremely unrealistic expectations.

Incidentally, how're the profits looking at the toy company you run?

Shin Densetsu
01-26-2011, 01:53 PM
You assume they haven't? Cross out the consultant part, and put in employee. The guys who work on the Joe team are Joe fans and collectors too. But if by 'us' you mean your select group of friends, then no, they probably shouldn't do that.

There have been some members of the fandom from back when the online Joe community was much smaller, pre-25th days, who were able to get onboard and work on the Joe line. You guys have to remember though, despite the fact that they themselves are fans, anything they come up with has to be greenlighted by the corporate higher ups at Hasbro. Have those guys always done the right thing? Look at TJ Maxx, ROSS, what have you, and you have the answer right there.

I have faith in the design team, I just think they ought to be listened to more by the corporate higher ups.

Making an all new mold for Hasbro is a lot cheaper than retro casting, for example, reverse engineering a vintage Skystriker and/or taking it apart and casting new molds out of the original. It is a lot cheaper for Hasbro to come up with something from scratch, based on the original. They did this with the 25th Ghost HAWK and Sting Raider.

Now actually producing a toy from molds, from what I've read from someone who is in the know at the factories overseas, costs pennies to the dollar. It's cutting the tools AKA making the actual steel molds that costs tens of thousands. This is why you see repaints, it's free money for Hasbro but it also makes back the money invested in cutting the tools.

Is it worth releasing a Skystriker for the 30th? YES. This fandom was nowhere near as big before the 25th line started. The amount of GI Joe sites alone after the 25th line started should tell anyone that. Most people say "stealth is cool with kids now", but is it really? I doubt it. Stealth makes some planes look "too clean" in the eyes of others, and as cool as stealth makes an airplane, something like an A-10 or bomb laden A-7 to me, looks more exciting than let's say an F-117. I mean come on the F-117 only has 2 bombs THAT'S IT. Cool shape but uh....I'd have more fun playing with an X-30 than an F-117.

The F-22 program is pretty much done, and the F-35 is facing even more delays. What kids are going to be used to be seeing are the F-15's, F-16's, F/A-18s, et al. Maybe when the NGAD reaches service in 2026(barring delays), kids will be used to stealth, but right now, stealth airplanes are not the majority on runways and won't be for a while.

The Skystriker has brand recognition and aside from that, it's a variation of the F-14 Tomcat which is popular to begin with. You can say that it's old, but so is the P-51 Mustang, F-4U Corsair, and F-4 Phantom II, yet they are still very popular today.

If the Skystriker is released, the only main GI Joe plane yet with high notoriety is the vintage Night Raven. Having BOTH made for the 30th would be a great feeling.

sgt.rock
01-26-2011, 02:21 PM
Sure. Except plenty of the collector-beloved 25th line ended up at discounters, too. So there goes the "collectors are the sure path to success" idea.

Did they turn a profit or not? This isn't a "shades of grey" scenario here. They made a profit, and they did it in a recession when many other companies were NOT turning any sort of profit at all. I mean, if your only benchmark of success is MASSIVE profit and growth in the midst of one of the worst financial meltdowns our country (and to a lesser extent the world) has seen in decades, then there's, very very few companies that have managed that, and I would say you have extremely unrealistic expectations.

Incidentally, how're the profits looking at the toy company you run?Before you turn this into even more of a pissing contest. i submit. lighten up pal.
fyi i am not in the toy biz i wish i was though. helk id make my own toys. wouldnt that be peachy. but i do manufacture for big box retailers, and thankfully everything is status quo this year as we had forecast.margins may be a bit tighter this year without revealing too much info.

sgt.rock
01-26-2011, 02:23 PM
There have been some members of the fandom from back when the online Joe community was much smaller, pre-25th days, who were able to get onboard and work on the Joe line. You guys have to remember though, despite the fact that they themselves are fans, anything they come up with has to be greenlighted by the corporate higher ups at Hasbro. Have those guys always done the right thing? Look at TJ Maxx, ROSS, what have you, and you have the answer right there.

I have faith in the design team, I just think they ought to be listened to more by the corporate higher ups.

Making an all new mold for Hasbro is a lot cheaper than retro casting, for example, reverse engineering a vintage Skystriker and/or taking it apart and casting new molds out of the original. It is a lot cheaper for Hasbro to come up with something from scratch, based on the original. They did this with the 25th Ghost HAWK and Sting Raider.

Now actually producing a toy from molds, from what I've read from someone who is in the know at the factories overseas, costs pennies to the dollar. It's cutting the tools AKA making the actual steel molds that costs tens of thousands. This is why you see repaints, it's free money for Hasbro but it also makes back the money invested in cutting the tools.

Is it worth releasing a Skystriker for the 30th? YES. This fandom was nowhere near as big before the 25th line started. The amount of GI Joe sites alone after the 25th line started should tell anyone that. Most people say "stealth is cool with kids now", but is it really? I doubt it. Stealth makes some planes look "too clean" in the eyes of others, and as cool as stealth makes an airplane, something like an A-10 or bomb laden A-7 to me, looks more exciting than let's say an F-117. I mean come on the F-117 only has 2 bombs THAT'S IT. Cool shape but uh....I'd have more fun playing with an X-30 than an F-117.

The F-22 program is pretty much done, and the F-35 is facing even more delays. What kids are going to be used to be seeing are the F-15's, F-16's, F/A-18s, et al. Maybe when the NGAD reaches service in 2026(barring delays), kids will be used to stealth, but right now, stealth airplanes are not the majority on runways and won't be for a while.

The Skystriker has brand recognition and aside from that, it's a variation of the F-14 Tomcat which is popular to begin with. You can say that it's old, but so is the P-51 Mustang, F-4U Corsair, and F-4 Phantom II, yet they are still very popular today.

If the Skystriker is released, the only main GI Joe plane yet with high notoriety is the vintage Night Raven. Having BOTH made for the 30th would be a great feeling.
i apologize about double tapping, but you have said it all very eloquently. Thanks!

Shipwreck
01-26-2011, 02:54 PM
problems I see in my own experiance with vintage and modern even movie related items...

1st I agree with many here about the skystriker being one piece that is and can be a solid center piece to modern or vintage collections.

The mention of the Night Raven and it's RoC counterpart... Next the mention of large scale items...

The PiT undersold in many areas. Large? Yes, Movie related yes.. having anything to honestly do with the movie? no. The Pit has been the largest thing since the general, FLAGG, TerrorDrome, and MCC. The Pit is in all aspects a throw pitch to the original MCC. I beleive it was an ugly piece, and a gamble to the community. Economy and the release of these items are just that... horrible timing. WE are getting items for the collector community in an age that money isn't very easy to come by, where you have to choose between that meal for dinner, or toy collection piece...

Hasbro knows that the transformers suffer just as much as their marvel line right on over to their board games, due to video games.

It is a %50 to 50 chance that we would get things like the skystriker, or a vintage stle raven... The Snowcat has been the latest offering to old style ways... as are some of the pieces from the canceled target pieces.

Be patient is all I can say...

Skipper
01-26-2011, 03:05 PM
Have you seen the quality of the PTE F-18? The RAH SKYSTRIKER is almost the same size and it fits in the same box. If PTE can come up with a decent F-18, A-10 and F-22, why can't Hasbro just make a new tooling of the XP-14F Skystriker without the damn lever for swing wings and landing gear. Take away the gimmick and replace it with a pull out landing gear and swing wings that can be moved by the customer and set a decent pricepoint. If Hasbro can charge $60 or more for the CLONE WARS Y WING, I can definately see paying $50 to $60 for a newly tooled skystriker. It can also be re-issued in Navy grey, SEA Camo, Battle-damaged--alternate certain replaceable panels and you can definately make your money. Add in a re-issue of SLIPSTREAM Pilot from the THUNDERWING vehicle and you have got a winner. The figure was incredible and I have yet to see Hasbro do a re-issue. I would think that since the 25th Anniv. line basically re-charged Joe from obscurity and it would be a no brainer. Yes, other vehicles have been re-issued and they are shelf warmers and some are really hot. You want to make a winning shot, you have to take the chance. The BIG vehicles like the AT-AT and BMF are starting to warm shelves again, the nostalgia packaging had its effect and it was used, so obviously Hasbro IS counting on the nostalgia/collector factor. The BMF is on its second run, so it must have made them some money or they got a great discount on the second run. The toy is not without its problems but its fantastic nonetheless. The SKYSTRIKER was the backbone of the RAH line, its icon status has never wavered. The SKYSTRIKER would sell, of that I have no doubt, how much would it sell for I can only speculate. The 3 foot F-14 is just about $200 now, I cant see Hasbro charging more than $60--throw in a re-issue of the thunderwing pilot (the good one in green) and you can bump it to $65.


All in all, it can be done and Hasbro has the ability to get it done. H lied about the BMF when confronted, I cant see them not cashing in on the 30th Anniv. They didnt on the 25th Anniv, maybe they ran out of time or the movie got in the way..who knows? I know an re-tooled XP-14f is possible and profitable if done right. They could even have a collector's edition with extra detailing, paint applications and extra big price tagging. We know it would sell. H is hot for CLONE WARS, it has the series backing it up and no shortage of possible ships and characters. GI JOE RENEGADES aka GI JOE A-TEAM wont have a skystriker, just a cool a@@ van, wont that be original? An elite unit framed for a crime they didnt commit....now where did I hear about that? Pity the fool that has no hope.

sgt.rock
02-12-2011, 05:55 PM
It looks as though our prayers may be answered after all, based on the scoop from toyfair 2011!!!!!!!!!

alcinde4
02-12-2011, 08:50 PM
Yesssss!!!

SonOfMindbender
02-12-2011, 10:07 PM
I was wrong about large vehicles...I'm Soooooooo happy I was wrong!! Very excited about this!!!!!!

Derek2783
02-12-2011, 10:20 PM
Pretty awesome :D

Continue discussion here (http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-joe-news-rumors/96232-toy-fair-2011-skystriker-returns.html):

http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-joe-news-rumors/96232-toy-fair-2011-skystriker-returns.html