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Shin Densetsu
12-04-2010, 04:20 PM
....no really, I do. The guy is not invincible. He did not bounce back anywhere near as much as Major Bludd. I'm surprised Major Bludd is even alive.

Snake Eyes in Renegades reminds me of the Sunbow Snake Eyes. Now some of you know that I do not think the Sunbow toons aged well at all. I respect them out of nostalgia, but I think cartoons like Transformers G1 are superior. I'm one of the fans that got into the early Marvel books when I got older and was won over by how Snake Eyes was characterized. After reading the 1st issues I was like .."so THAT's why the fans love the commando goggles so much!". Snake Eyes as a commando kicks ass.

In the Sunbow toons, Snake Eyes was the dude who would come in silently(didn't have a choice), but seemed like an underdog who was necessary. The silent deus ex machina. In Renegades, he pretty much does the same thing. That was something I liked about Sunbow Snake Eyes, except the Renegades one is more believable because lack of said invincibility. I also dig the kenjustu he employs, using the scabbard as a defensive weapon in coordination with his sword. I wasn't expecting that, and I'm glad the creative team did research for it.

In fact, movie Bumblebee and Snake Eyes are similar; both are main characters, both are very popular, both just "go for it", are willing to go head-first into battle, disregarding any potential harm to themselves, while trying to get things done. They may not succeed each time but they never hold back. I'm sure this resonates with kids.

So far, Snake Eyes is my fav character, though I'm almost sure this will change next week, when Storm Shadow debuts. In a way, he is treated similar to IDW; not invincible, but still bad ass. Hell, I'm surprised Renegades Snake Eyes is this good, possibly even more surprised that Duke is actually a likeable character so far.

donmagic
12-04-2010, 04:22 PM
I posted this elsewhere

Does anyone find Snake Eyes' style kinda annoying? The whole sword spin, slash , slash, sword spin, sheath sword, cool pose....

It's kinda silly.

Shin Densetsu
12-04-2010, 04:23 PM
I posted this elsewhere

Does anyone find Snake Eyes' style kinda annoying? The whole sword spin, slash , slash, sword spin, sheath sword, cool pose....

It's kinda silly.

Some parts are overdone, like the end-pose, but overall, I like him. I suspect the inspiration for the slice/dice/pose routine was inspired by Shinobi on PS2, the combo system is essentially the same if linked/inputed correctly.

Mazinger
12-04-2010, 04:25 PM
Snake eyes was one of the most popular figures in the 80's and he was not a main character in the old cartoons.

Just an observation... :)

SH0CKWAVE
12-04-2010, 04:28 PM
i've ALWAYS been a fan of ninjas. it started when i was a kid and has never left me. i used to watch the American Ninja movies all the time, and any other VHS rental with some type of ninja on the cover. i was obsessed. i had the fake ninja stars and i would make my own nunchuks out of old broom sticks and chain leashes. i even had "chinese shoes" and fancied myself a hybrid of Bruce Lee and Storm Shadow. haha.

memories...

that said, i love this new SE. he just "does it for me" on every level. i admit i like seeing him get his ass handed to him now and then. Major Bludd stole the show in the last episode. good for him as he was always portrayed as a cowardly douche in ARAH. being introduced by Baroness as "another pretty face" was epic!

so yeah, i like SE too. :D

Shin Densetsu
12-04-2010, 04:28 PM
Snake eyes was one of the most popular figures in the 80's and he was not a main character in the old cartoons.

Just an observation... :)

True...but you know what? He is one of the most memorable in the cartoons, because most of the stuff he did was bad ass(except for the cross dressing breakdancing episode...me and my friend did not remember that and were like WTF? when we saw the DVD), and his appearances were short(most of the time).

Zefram
12-04-2010, 04:28 PM
....no really, I do. The guy is not invincible. He did not bounce back anywhere near as much as Major Bludd. I'm surprised Major Bludd is even alive.

To be fair, Bludd didn't take a missile to the face, and did get knocked down a more often, but I was always a Bludd fan and appreciate the fact he's now a genuinely tough bastard. He wasn't more skilled than SE hand to hand, but every time he got knocked on his ass he could keep getting back up and coming back for more and was genuinely resourceful, using stuff that he just found lying around.

Also, it should be noted SE also got his clock cleaned in Sigma 6, by the same guy I'm especially looking forward to, Zartan.

BTW, you sure it was the scabbard that got cut? I coulda sworn one of his swords broke.

Mazinger
12-04-2010, 04:31 PM
Renegades is fine right now. I just don't want it going uber-ninja.
There's so much more to GI Joe than ninjas.

MFJayman
12-04-2010, 05:29 PM
Renegades is fine right now. I just don't want it going uber-ninja.
There's so much more to GI Joe than ninjas.



AGREED.

Every time this SE got knocked down, I smiled and nodded. And I like him, I genuinely do. More so now than I used to. And I love how they show that you don't have to be a ninja to be a pretty damn good fighter. I'm assuming Bludd doesn't have too much formal Eastern-martial arts training under his belt (though I could, once again, be completely wrong).

Troynos
12-04-2010, 06:08 PM
SE is too invincible in Renegades already. Bludd wasn't as tough as I thought he would be from what people were saying. SE had the upper hand and it was luck that gave Bludd the upper hand.

Running through two lines of gunfire... too tough...

And it's too early to do an origin special on SE. This early they're saying they know he's going to be the most popular character because of past popularity, not any popularity that he gets from the 3 Renegades episodes we've seen.

Too much ninja.

Trooper13
12-04-2010, 06:20 PM
I hate ninjas. That being said. Renegades SE isn't on my nerves. Yet. I like that he comes and goes, and isn't the constant focus of the show. I'm sure I won't like the next two episodes very much.

I learned along time ago that Larry Hama ruined the Snake Eyes that I played with growing up. Commando SE was laid to rest a lifetime ago. So I just don't really care about the character one way or the other anymore. He'll never go back from being a ninja, so I just lump him in with the rest of the characters that I really don't "follow".

The way I look at the Bludd/SE fight was that while SE was definitely the better fighter, SE had to be there or Bludd would have wasted any of the others on their own. This Bludd is a nasty piece of work. Can't wait to see what he comes at the Joes with next.

Shin Densetsu
12-04-2010, 06:33 PM
The way I look at the Bludd/SE fight was that while SE was definitely the better fighter, SE had to be there or Bludd would have wasted any of the others on their own. This Bludd is a nasty piece of work. Can't wait to see what he comes at the Joes with next.

I dunno, they seemed to match up pretty well. Didn't seem like Snake Eyes had the edge the whole time, at the same token, Bludd wasn't struggling with him.

Shin Densetsu
12-04-2010, 06:36 PM
To be fair, Bludd didn't take a missile to the face, and did get knocked down a more often, but I was always a Bludd fan and appreciate the fact he's now a genuinely tough bastard. He wasn't more skilled than SE hand to hand, but every time he got knocked on his ass he could keep getting back up and coming back for more and was genuinely resourceful, using stuff that he just found lying around.

Also, it should be noted SE also got his clock cleaned in Sigma 6, by the same guy I'm especially looking forward to, Zartan.

BTW, you sure it was the scabbard that got cut? I coulda sworn one of his swords broke.

No I think his scabbard was okay, he mainly used it to block, one of his swords got deflected and tossed from what I remember. Also..Bludd got tossed through a sign, hit by a vehicle, amongst other things. I dunno, I personally found it funny that he survived all that.

MFJayman
12-04-2010, 06:40 PM
I hate ninjas. That being said. Renegades SE isn't on my nerves. Yet. I like that he comes and goes, and isn't the constant focus of the show. I'm sure I won't like the next two episodes very much.

I learned along time ago that Larry Hama ruined the Snake Eyes that I played with growing up. Commando SE was laid to rest a lifetime ago. So I just don't really care about the character one way or the other anymore. He'll never go back from being a ninja, so I just lump him in with the rest of the characters that I really don't "follow".

The way I look at the Bludd/SE fight was that while SE was definitely the better fighter, SE had to be there or Bludd would have wasted any of the others on their own. This Bludd is a nasty piece of work. Can't wait to see what he comes at the Joes with next.



My thoughts on this aren't too far from yours, I think. I dislike the overuse of ninjas. So far I'm okay with SE, but I can see how that could definitely change. The ninja seems to have taken on certain properties of the Jedi, I feel...you'd almost think they could tap into some kind of greater mystical force to do some of the stuff they are shown doing. I'm not necessarily speaking of Renegades here, but in a more general sense.

But Renegades has really sold me on Bludd. Its really thrown him right into the action, mixing it up with the best of them (hand to hand-wise). He never really made much of an impression on me before this. Sort of the guy standing there pointing and saying, “Attack! Kill them!” or “Retreat! Retreat!” I still would have liked to see him leading his own band of distinctive mercenaries though.

allen dane
12-04-2010, 06:42 PM
I posted this elsewhere

Does anyone find Snake Eyes' style kinda annoying? The whole sword spin, slash , slash, sword spin, sheath sword, cool pose....

It's kinda silly.

you do know it's make believe to sell toys to 10 year olds right?

Shin Densetsu
12-04-2010, 06:43 PM
I should add, it's too early to say GI Joe Renegades has too much ninjas. We've only had 3 episodes. Who knows, maybe we won't even see as much Arashikage action after episode 5. Hasbro knows the fandom as a collective has been "ninja'd" out for a while now.

I think they are using Jinx as a way to bulk up the female roster on the show, which in turn, may lead to us getting more female Joe figures, which are currently absent from POC, and something that has been bitched about for a while now.

Trooper13
12-04-2010, 06:48 PM
I dunno, they seemed to match up pretty well. Didn't seem like Snake Eyes had the edge the whole time, at the same token, Bludd wasn't struggling with him.

I thought SE definitely showed he was a much more polished and accomplished fighter. I think Bludd's tenacity was the only thing that really kept him in the game. It seemed that Bludd could never really get any momentum going on his own. However, he was a tough enough, an opportunistic enough, and a dirty enough fighter to keep from being totally taken apart.

No I think his scabbard was okay, he mainly used it to block, one of his swords got deflected and tossed from what I remember. Also..Bludd got tossed through a sign, hit by a vehicle, amongst other things. I dunno, I personally found it funny that he survived all that.

I think that will be the crux of Bludd's character. How he'll end up being this version of the Bludd we knew. The guy that carried all those scars, and no matter what just kept coming. The consumate soldier. He's just too nasty, and too tough to call it quits. I think I'm going to like him quite a bit.

Shin Densetsu
12-04-2010, 06:55 PM
I think that will be the crux of Bludd's character. How he'll end up being this version of the Bludd we knew. The guy that carried all those scars, and no matter what just kept coming. The consumate soldier. He's just too nasty, and too tough to call it quits. I think I'm going to like him quite a bit.

I like him a lot already. The voice actor did great work too, once I heard that voice, and the dialogue..I was like "yeah this Bludd...this one might be alright". Pretty bad ass. I bet by later seasons he will have 1 eye, a robotic arm, and countless other injuries yet still keep fighting.

minitrue
12-04-2010, 08:06 PM
I agree with shockwave. This snake eyes is pretty cool. I like that he does not seem to be officially military. I also like the sword play style they are using for him. I do think the origin story is too soon, but I do want to know why he follows scarlet around. I hope this storm shadow isn't lame. Personally, I much prefer storm shadow as a white hat rather than a black hat. I like the whole join-cobra-to-solve-a-murder motive. I'm glad they are putting jinx in the show too.

General Hawk
12-04-2010, 09:18 PM
I certainly am no big Snake Eyes fan, but I think he's being done really well in Renegades. He kind of jumps in, kicks ass, jumps out...to me it's not so much how powerful he is, it's how all-encompassing he is. I don't mind him being a bad ass, but when he appears every 10 seconds and every single person is tied back to him...that's what gets to me.

Of course, he's had his share of screen time here, but he has spent plenty of time getting his ass handed to him, too. I'm not sick of him yet.

After the next 2-parter, though, who knows?

Justin

MeLikeJinx
12-04-2010, 09:22 PM
I've never met a Snake Eyes that I didn't like. Except maybe the one that came with the ROC Rip Attack toy... that one I kind of never like. LOL.

luigi
12-04-2010, 09:47 PM
. good for him as he was always portrayed as a cowardly douche in ARAH.
. :D

as i posted in a different thread but i think it fits

humm if it's not arah then explain this
http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l623/luigi_swayze/Capture-1.jpg?1291403145
and yes i know it's not the original arah but technically it is arah

Zefram
12-04-2010, 10:29 PM
Upon watching it again, out of two fights Bludd went down four times, while SE went down twice. Once was Duke's driving and the other was from a missile.

That isn't taking away from Bludd though, guy got kicked, punched, shuriken'd, knocked off a speeding truck through a wooden sign, rammed with a forklift, and then survived a whole shopping mall exploding behind him, and only seemed to regard the loss of an eye as a minor inconvenience.

I'm thinking Bludd is already part machine, either that or he's related to John McClain.

JohnnyAngel77
12-05-2010, 12:04 AM
i've ALWAYS been a fan of ninjas. it started when i was a kid and has never left me. i used to watch the American Ninja movies all the time, and any other VHS rental with some type of ninja on the cover. i was obsessed. i had the fake ninja stars and i would make my own nunchuks out of old broom sticks and chain leashes. i even had "chinese shoes" and fancied myself a hybrid of Bruce Lee and Storm Shadow. haha.

memories...

that said, i love this new SE. he just "does it for me" on every level. i admit i like seeing him get his ass handed to him now and then. Major Bludd stole the show in the last episode. good for him as he was always portrayed as a cowardly douche in ARAH. being introduced by Baroness as "another pretty face" was epic!

so yeah, i like SE too. :D
^^^ This on every level.

CrimsonGuard101
12-05-2010, 12:27 AM
C'mon it's snake eyes....if you don't include him it's not really GI JOE now is it? I don't think they can ever mess up snake eyes unless they make him a girl with bewbs that go "pew pew pew" as he blasts milk dudes outta of em at Sludge Vipers, the turd byproducts of the Bio-vipers....

Now for the rest of the cast pfft...this should have just been Snake Eyes Vs. Storm Shadow and the kids would have eatin it alive...

SNAKE EYES
12-05-2010, 12:35 AM
Do I even need to say that I like Renegades Snake Eyes :D

CrimsonGuard101
12-05-2010, 12:39 AM
Do I even need to say that I like Renegades Snake Eyes :D

You are snake eyes....do you ever wash your suit? What happens if you get bleach on it, Do you become storm shadow? do you have more then one? Zipper in front or back? Inquiring minds wanna know!

SNAKE EYES
12-05-2010, 12:50 AM
When I get bleach on it then I just finish the job and bleach it all white for an arctic mission and yes I do wash it once in a while... you can't sneak up on Cobra with a rank suit :D

xSwamiJayx
12-05-2010, 12:56 AM
When I get bleach on it then I just finish the job and bleach it all white for an arctic mission and yes I do wash it once in a while... you can't sneak up on Cobra with a rank suit :D

Seeing snake eyes in a snake eyes t-shirt was kind of meta.

SNAKE EYES
12-05-2010, 12:59 AM
Seeing snake eyes in a snake eyes t-shirt was kind of meta.

Ha ha... nice :D

Monkeywrench
12-05-2010, 03:00 AM
I like everything except his "ninja music"

Trooper13
12-05-2010, 08:01 AM
C'mon it's snake eyes....if you don't include him it's not really GI JOE now is it?


This guy...

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/129/m_6fbd716399424e4b8eebbaada8b54687.jpg

...and these guys, would like a word with you.

http://the-gadgeteer.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/eagijoe2.jpg

I wouldn't complain if we got a Joe without Snake Eyes.

Or even if they went back to using him as just a commando, and Storm Shadow went back to being the only ninja. That's how it was when I was a kid and played with my toys. It made SE more realistic, and SS was so dangerous because he used techniques, skills, and strategies that the Joes had never heard of. Making SE a ninja was one of the worst retcons ever. It completely threw off the balance of the fight, and the Joes became like "Superman". You knew they'd win, and it became boring.

Troynos
12-05-2010, 09:14 AM
I wouldn't complain if we got a Joe without Snake Eyes.

Or even if they went back to using him as just a commando, and Storm Shadow went back to being the only ninja. That's how it was when I was a kid and played with my toys. It made SE more realistic, and SS was so dangerous because he used techniques, skills, and strategies that the Joes had never heard of. Making SE a ninja was one of the worst retcons ever. It completely threw off the balance of the fight, and the Joes became like "Superman". You knew they'd win, and it became boring.

^ this x 100

Mazinger
12-05-2010, 11:45 AM
Yup. what I liked about SS was that he was a Ninja. Now when SE is a ninja. Zartan, Firefly, etc... then it's not as cool.

allen dane
12-05-2010, 11:07 PM
Yup. what I liked about SS was that he was a Ninja. Now when SE is a ninja. Zartan, Firefly, etc... then it's not as cool.
SE works for the back story... but big butt ninja force scarlet was digging a dead horse up... extracting it's d.n.a.... making a clone from it... then beating the life out of it.... then spending the next 24 hours beating it more and more.
I like seeing SE fighting non-ninja's. I don't want to always see him fighting stormy from now on.

and I do notice every episode has 1 cobra guy introduced. so I can't wait to see who's in the 2nd part of SE's back story

Gatchaman
12-05-2010, 11:14 PM
I like commando SE and I also like Ninja SE although not as much. I don't mind Ninja SE as long as it’s not over played which it has been now for a loooong time. I much prefer him as a commando that is a Ninja rather than just a Ninja.
And making Firefly, Jinx and everyone else a Ninja was the worst thing ever to happen to GI Joe....well except for ROC. Oh and.........ok maybe not the worst thing but it is very bad.

MeLikeJinx
12-05-2010, 11:18 PM
I like commando SE and I also like Ninja SE although not as much. I don't mind Ninja SE as long as it’s not over played which it has been now for a loooong time. I much prefer him as a commando that is a Ninja rather than just a Ninja.
I like the look of Commando SE better, but I want him to still have and use his ninja skills during battle instead of just sticking with guns.

And making Firefly, Jinx and everyone else a Ninja was the worst thing ever to happen to GI Joe....well except for ROC.
Ooo... when did everybody get Ninja-fied? In the comics?

Troynos
12-05-2010, 11:21 PM
Yes, in the comics.


Commando SE > Ninja SE

Jinx should have been the only Joe ninja and she only gets brought on board because she's SS's cousin.

Could still have had the SE/SS connection without completely ninja-fying SE.

It would have had to have been a little different obviously. Instead of being a full ninja, SE just has some training from when his buddy SS let him hang out at the family's dojo.

CrimsonGuard101
12-05-2010, 11:25 PM
Yes, in the comics.


Commando SE > Ninja SE

Jinx should have been the only Joe ninja and she only gets brought on board because she's SS's cousin.

Could still have had the SE/SS connection without completely ninja-fying SE.

It would have had to have been a little different obviously. Instead of being a full ninja, SE just has some training from when his buddy SS let him hang out at the family's dojo.

Could have also revived Slice and Dice for cobra and left Storm Shadow as a the Joe ninja version too or Kamakura could take that leading role over from Jinx, like the America's Elite versions of Snake Eyes and Storm shadow which look hella cool on that comic cover...

Troynos
12-05-2010, 11:34 PM
Could have also revived Slice and Dice for cobra and left Storm Shadow as a the Joe ninja version too or Kamakura could take that leading role over from Jinx, like the America's Elite versions of Snake Eyes and Storm shadow which look hella cool on that comic cover...

Thats too many ninjas.

Should have only been Storm Shadow, with Jinx added later.

Too many ninjas ruined the whole idea of having a ninja in the first place. Having just Storm Shadow made him the biggest bad ass. I loved his early appearances in the comics as he wiped the floor with the Joes, escaped from them easily, and so on.

Once you add others, it diminishes the abilities of all.

Shin Densetsu
12-05-2010, 11:34 PM
I like everything except his "ninja music"

Yeah I can do without that, and his ninja post-awesome-fight-sequence poses.

I've never met a Snake Eyes that I didn't like. Except maybe the one that came with the ROC Rip Attack toy... that one I kind of never like. LOL.

Dude that's actually one of the best ones...what he SHOULD have looked like in the movie. The photo on the box is misleading, as the actual figure uses the mouthless Paris Pursuit head, and has the torso/legs of the latter figure, so NO sculpted muscles on him! Or that damn sculpted mouth which looked weird as hell in the movie.

Upon watching it again, out of two fights Bludd went down four times, while SE went down twice. Once was Duke's driving and the other was from a missile.

That isn't taking away from Bludd though, guy got kicked, punched, shuriken'd, knocked off a speeding truck through a wooden sign, rammed with a forklift, and then survived a whole shopping mall exploding behind him, and only seemed to regard the loss of an eye as a minor inconvenience.

I'm thinking Bludd is already part machine, either that or he's related to John McClain.

No if he was like him he would have already come in with a MILF with specs for a running mate. Then again..Baroness has specs.

CrimsonGuard101
12-05-2010, 11:37 PM
Thats too many ninjas.

Should have only been Storm Shadow, with Jinx added later.

Too many ninjas ruined the whole idea of having a ninja in the first place. Having just Storm Shadow made him the biggest bad ass. I loved his early appearances in the comics as he wiped the floor with the Joes, escaped from them easily, and so on.

Once you add others, it diminishes the abilities of all.

Well they are all ninjas now so it dosent really matter :(

Zefram
12-05-2010, 11:46 PM
Dude that's actually one of the best ones...what he SHOULD have looked like in the movie. The photo on the box is misleading, as the actual figure uses the mouthless Paris Pursuit head, and has the torso/legs of the latter figure, so NO sculpted muscles on him! Or that damn sculpted mouth which looked weird as hell in the movie.

My God, you're actually giving people an excuse to buy that thing?

No if he was like him he would have already come in with a MILF with specs for a running mate. Then again..Baroness has specs.

http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy302/zeframmann/bruce1.jpg

Shin Densetsu
12-06-2010, 12:09 AM
My God, you're actually giving people an excuse to buy that thing?



http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy302/zeframmann/bruce1.jpg

The figure is the only thing good about that set. I am not a fan of the bike and/or Ripcord vehicles at all. Bruce looks like he secretly agrees BTW.

Snake Shadow09
12-06-2010, 09:14 AM
i agree with op se is great so far but as we all know ss is my boy!

Trooper13
12-06-2010, 09:51 AM
Thats too many ninjas.

Should have only been Storm Shadow, with Jinx added later.

Too many ninjas ruined the whole idea of having a ninja in the first place. Having just Storm Shadow made him the biggest bad ass. I loved his early appearances in the comics as he wiped the floor with the Joes, escaped from them easily, and so on.

Once you add others, it diminishes the abilities of all.

This. There's a formula that proves it. So it must be true. I always liked Jinx, and especially now that we saw her in IDW. :( Once SE went ninja, and started hanging out with a wolf, he lost all his appeal to me. It's like he was already the baddest soldier our country had, and then they made him a ninja. Like, wtf? It completely threw everything out of whack. Unfortunately, it became popular so then EVERYONE had to be a ninja. I loved 82 SE, and I loved FF. I'm so glad I was long gone from Joe when Hama butchered FF. What a freakin' crock.

Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja
12-07-2010, 05:50 PM
I like ninjas... there, I said it. And I'm in class right now, but if I recall, my 25th GI Joe figure area (with customs) looks like this-

SE, scarlett, barrel roll, slaughter, colton, duke, hawk, ss, stalker, grunt, tunnel rat, heavy duty, roadblock, LJ, flint, rock n roll, wetsuit, deep 6, shipwreck, kamakura, dialtone, helix, bazooka, shockwave, mayday, tripwire, airtight, BBQ, blowtorch, Mercer, wild bill, mainframe, Steel brigade, clutch, snowjob, iceberg, frostbite, recondo, outback, dusty, low light, downtown, thunder, ace, lift ticket, ripcord, airborne.

Cobra is SS, CC, destro, baroness, scarface, raptor, firefly, zartan, new dreadnok guy, monkeywrench, ripper, torch, buzzer, tomax, xamot, munitia, interrogator, big boa, mindbender, serpentor, nemesis enforcer, wild weasel, copperhead, rip it, scrap-iron, dr venom, major bludd, ghost bear, Fred Iv.

77. With four ninjas, 2 of which= same guy, so it comes out to 3 out of 76, 5 if you include Firefly and Zartan, six if you include Scarlett (which I don't). So lets say 5 out of 76, max, with HOW MANY OTHER CHARACTERS NOT MADE INTO 25TH TOYS- Cover Girl, Sparks, Darkalon, Voltor, Headman, Jinx, Fridge, Ice Cream Soldier, Crystal Ball, yadda yadda yadda.

And, not including any random soldiers or created characters or the characters without figures just mentioned, that thats 6% of the GI Joe cast that are (or at most are arguably) ninjas. So, for the people who complain EVERYONE'S A NINJA, do the ninjas get a lot of screen time? Yeah, it sells, and I am genuinely sorry for the over-ninja saturation that annoys you, but be fair and point out, ninjas are HARDLY the core character type of GI Joe.

And I like Renegade SE, on topic. e isn't overly used, but I'm getting annoyed at a hinted love triangle between SE/Scarlett/Duke. I may be jumping the gun, but have one in IDW, ROC and now maybe even Renegades, it's just getting old to me. Then again, so is SE vs SS.

Trooper13
12-07-2010, 05:56 PM
Really? Ninja's are hardly the "core character type"? They made SE a ninja, SS was a ninja, then Hama made Zartan and FF ninjas. So if you look at the "main cast" of Cobra's elite from most continuities. (CC, Destro, Bludd, Baroness, FF, Zartan, SS, and Mindbender) Over one third of them are freakin' ninjas. Then there's "Ninja Farce". Yeah, it's not a core archetype at all.

Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja
12-07-2010, 07:14 PM
Really? Ninja's are hardly the "core character type"? They made SE a ninja, SS was a ninja, then Hama made Zartan and FF ninjas. So if you look at the "main cast" of Cobra's elite from most continuities. (CC, Destro, Bludd, Baroness, FF, Zartan, SS, and Mindbender) Over one third of them are freakin' ninjas. Then there's "Ninja Farce". Yeah, it's not a core archetype at all.

And how many soldiers are there on the GI Joe team?

and you forgot the Crimson Twins and the Dreadnoks, if you're going to throw main Cobra characters at me. And if you want to pull from comics, I would suppose there are more characters, such as Dreadnoks and the Plague, who are hardly composed of a majority of ninjas.

Sorry, sir, I'm going to have to disagree with you, as a total; but I understand your estimation of Cobra by your boundaries- I guess I just consider others as part of the "poll pool", if you will.

Trooper13
12-07-2010, 07:21 PM
I consider the ninja to have become a "core archetype" because many of the core characters became ninjas through retcon. Sure there are tons of soldiers in Joe and Cobra, and at it's heart that's what Joe is, military and espionage. However, there was a marked shift after the mid-80's where ninjas went from being one cool character in the early days of Joe, not even the beginning. (SS). To needing mulitple main characters being changed to ninjas, and there being "fodder ninjas" and even ninja subteams. Now in every incarnation of Joe there HAS to be a ninja in the upper echelon on each side. The ninja wasn't a core archetype in the beginning of Joe, however now it's become as integral part as the soldiers are, imo. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Bujo
12-08-2010, 01:56 PM
Anybody notice how Snake Eyes' ninja skillz have dramatically increased over the past decades? I started watching some of the old 80s GI JOE and Transformers cartoons on the HUB and Snake Eyes was not nearly so invincible back then. The last episode I watched Snake Eyes got quarter back sacked by a 17 year old girl.

Shin Densetsu
12-09-2010, 12:55 AM
Anybody notice how Snake Eyes' ninja skillz have dramatically increased over the past decades? I started watching some of the old 80s GI JOE and Transformers cartoons on the HUB and Snake Eyes was not nearly so invincible back then. The last episode I watched Snake Eyes got quarter back sacked by a 17 year old girl.

Different continuity though, just means Sunbow Snake Eyes is more believable. In the IDW books Snake Eyes almost got taken out by a lone Viper.

Bujo
12-09-2010, 04:27 PM
Different continuity though, just means Sunbow Snake Eyes is more believable. In the IDW books Snake Eyes almost got taken out by a lone Viper.

Well a lone Viper with a trubble bubble and missile.

jeff_duke
12-12-2010, 12:18 PM
Snake Eyes in this series reminds me too much of a Jedi Knight.

Echo7Solo
12-12-2010, 01:03 PM
SE is too invincible in Renegades already. Bludd wasn't as tough as I thought he would be from what people were saying. SE had the upper hand and it was luck that gave Bludd the upper hand.

Running through two lines of gunfire... too tough...

And it's too early to do an origin special on SE. This early they're saying they know he's going to be the most popular character because of past popularity, not any popularity that he gets from the 3 Renegades episodes we've seen.

Too much ninja.

I'm the first person to say too much ninja most of the time but at least he isn't military. I don't have a problem with him helping out the team in this way and the way he was introduced fits. Snake Eyes and Duke are the top dogs, like it or not.




I should add, it's too early to say GI Joe Renegades has too much ninjas. We've only had 3 episodes. Who knows, maybe we won't even see as much Arashikage action after episode 5. Hasbro knows the fandom as a collective has been "ninja'd" out for a while now.

I think they are using Jinx as a way to bulk up the female roster on the show, which in turn, may lead to us getting more female Joe figures, which are currently absent from POC, and something that has been bitched about for a while now.

Again I have to agree with this. Hasbro knows the fans are getting tired of everybody and their dog being ninjas. I'm sure they are just getting this out of the way so we can go back to the story.


I like him a lot already. The voice actor did great work too, once I heard that voice, and the dialogue..I was like "yeah this Bludd...this one might be alright". Pretty bad ass. I bet by later seasons he will have 1 eye, a robotic arm, and countless other injuries yet still keep fighting.

I love the "your next ginger" line

I like everything except his "ninja music"

yeah I agree but it does make me laugh when they smack Snake Eyes around. It's kind of funny, I don't mind this Snake Eyes and even would go as far as to say I like him but my favorite part is him getting smacked around.

Snake Eyes in this series reminds me too much of a Jedi Knight.

I'm big enough of a fan of Star Wars to have tattoos on both of my arms and I just don't see that.

Echo7Solo
12-12-2010, 01:10 PM
but I think cartoons like Transformers G1 are superior.

in story or animation?

nickvree
12-12-2010, 02:50 PM
I'd have to agree completely, love that he's not friggin Superman-Ninja.

elanmars
12-13-2010, 12:52 AM
....no really, I do. The guy is not invincible. He did not bounce back anywhere near as much as Major Bludd. I'm surprised Major Bludd is even alive.

Snake Eyes in Renegades reminds me of the Sunbow Snake Eyes. Now some of you know that I do not think the Sunbow toons aged well at all. I respect them out of nostalgia, but I think cartoons like Transformers G1 are superior. I'm one of the fans that got into the early Marvel books when I got older and was won over by how Snake Eyes was characterized. After reading the 1st issues I was like .."so THAT's why the fans love the commando goggles so much!". Snake Eyes as a commando kicks ass.

In the Sunbow toons, Snake Eyes was the dude who would come in silently(didn't have a choice), but seemed like an underdog who was necessary. The silent deus ex machina. In Renegades, he pretty much does the same thing. That was something I liked about Sunbow Snake Eyes, except the Renegades one is more believable because lack of said invincibility. I also dig the kenjustu he employs, using the scabbard as a defensive weapon in coordination with his sword. I wasn't expecting that, and I'm glad the creative team did research for it.

In fact, movie Bumblebee and Snake Eyes are similar; both are main characters, both are very popular, both just "go for it", are willing to go head-first into battle, disregarding any potential harm to themselves, while trying to get things done. They may not succeed each time but they never hold back. I'm sure this resonates with kids.

So far, Snake Eyes is my fav character, though I'm almost sure this will change next week, when Storm Shadow debuts. In a way, he is treated similar to IDW; not invincible, but still bad ass. Hell, I'm surprised Renegades Snake Eyes is this good, possibly even more surprised that Duke is actually a likeable character so far.

um, i don't know what sunbow toons you saw, other than a handful of episodes, snake eyes almost always got his ass kicked, was easily taken hostage and even wore drag and threw down and did quite the little break dance with timber.

that's not bad-ass....it's terrible cheese. i will never, ever, ever understand the whining about how renegades suck but don't see how bad arah really is.

now, the marvel comics-i'm with you there! up to a certain point, before hama just completely lost it.

Shin Densetsu
12-13-2010, 12:56 AM
um, i don't know what sunbow toons you saw, other than a handful of episodes, snake eyes almost always got his ass kicked, was easily taken hostage and even wore drag and threw down and did quite the little break dance with timber.

that's not bad-ass....it's terrible cheese. i will never, ever, ever understand the whining about how renegades suck but don't see how bad arah really is.

now, the marvel comics-i'm with you there! up to a certain point, before hama just completely lost it.

To be honest my memory of Sunbow is not the best so I only remember Snake Eyes going drag, and jumping in to help the Joes and sometimes save them, I don't remember the times he got his ass beat, not saying that didn't happen, I just don't remember it.

With that said, I don't think the Sunbow Joe cartoons aged well. My preferred take on Snake Eyes is the way he was written in the early Marvel issues.

So far he is cool in Renegades. Admittedly I do like Storm Shadow better.

Echo7Solo
12-13-2010, 01:00 AM
With that said, I don't think the Sunbow Joe cartoons aged well. My preferred take on Snake Eyes is the way he was written in the early Marvel issues.


you have said this a few times and it isn't that I don't agree but what part do you feel didn't age as well as G1 Transformers?

Shin Densetsu
12-13-2010, 01:05 AM
you have said this a few times and it isn't that I don't agree but what part do you feel didn't age as well as G1 Transformers?

TF comes off as less corny; animation got a lot better in season 3-4.

Echo7Solo
12-13-2010, 01:11 AM
TF comes off as less corny; animation got a lot better in season 3-4.

yeah I agree the animation got a lot better as it went on. Both shows had some bad spots but Transformers was by far worse in it's first 2 seasons.

I guess I feel like they aged the same. I mean Jazz did not age well at all. Soundwave was and still is one of the all time coolest but he and Blaster are obsolete today. Not saying GI Joe was much better. I guess I can't see much of an age difference.

rdblock
12-13-2010, 01:15 AM
The best way to make sure Snake Eyes doesnt get overdone or over shadow the rest of the group is to not put him in every epidode. That way when he does show up it uilds the excitement and means the gang is in a critical situation

John_0515
12-13-2010, 01:16 AM
Renegades is fine right now. I just don't want it going uber-ninja.
There's so much more to GI Joe than ninjas.

I think they have to do an Arashikage story to this new series.

The last episode and the next one will be chock full of ninjas regardless. Then it'll get back to basics - hopefully.

Shin Densetsu
12-13-2010, 01:18 AM
The best way to make sure Snake Eyes doesnt get overdone or over shadow the rest of the group is to not put him in every epidode. That way when he does show up it uilds the excitement and means the gang is in a critical situation

Agreed. This worked in TF Animated with the Dinobots too. Same with Megatron. The buildup to his "completion" towards the end of season 1 was well written. Being that Isenberg is also working on this series, Renegades has potential.

Echo7Solo
12-13-2010, 01:18 AM
The best way to make sure Snake Eyes doesnt get overdone or over shadow the rest of the group is to not put him in every epidode. That way when he does show up it uilds the excitement and means the gang is in a critical situation

I kind of think that is the way it will be. If not I do expect him to just be in the back until needed. Than goodness he can't talk. If he could there would be no way we would ever get him off point.

elanmars
12-14-2010, 12:06 AM
Agreed. This worked in TF Animated with the Dinobots too. Same with Megatron. The buildup to his "completion" towards the end of season 1 was well written. Being that Isenberg is also working on this series, Renegades has potential.

is TF animated that good? i can't get past the mediocre designs in the last animated and this new one enough to give it a chance but if the storytelling is sooooooo good, then maybe i could.

Shin Densetsu
12-14-2010, 12:33 AM
is TF animated that good? i can't get past the mediocre designs in the last animated and this new one enough to give it a chance but if the storytelling is sooooooo good, then maybe i could.

Yes it is. There are some diehard TF fans I know of who ended up loving the show but loathed it initially. The sheer outrage by the fandom once the design for Optimus was revealed was pretty surprising. It took some time, but TF Animated did win over a good number of fans.

The damn thing is like a not so secret open love letter to G1. The approach taken was to make the Decepticons a bigger threat, so it took a slower approach(if there is anything that sounds similar with Renegades I highly doubt it's a coincidence...especially considering that Isenberg wrote TF Animated and is now onboard Renegades). Megatron's earth mode is not even formatted until the end of season 1, and there is good reason for it(don't want to spoil it). The buildup was written well. The voice acting was great.

The deaths were written in well too. The whole series placed emphasis on character development. The homages it paid to past series were implemented well too. Some characters changed by the end. Prowl was a dick in season 1, but by season 2, he was okay. He definitely grew as a character. Prime was kicked out of Elite Guard training for a reason. Sentinel was a douche. I did not like Bumblebee at all. Bulkhead was okay. Grimlock was hilarious. Arcee's story came as a surprise. Weird Al Yankovic was even brought in to voice Wreck Gar.

All the Decepticons were cool, especially the Constructicons(sadly we never got toys of them).

Overall, it was a very enjoyable series, with far better writing than the Armada trilogy. Just don't expect it to be Beast Wars. The toyline had incredible engineering. There are plenty of them at TJ Maxx and Marshalls for discount, they are awesome toys, especially Shockwave and voyager Bulkhead.

It was a great series, and the fact that Renegades feels similar when I watch it, does not hurt.

jeff_duke
12-14-2010, 10:55 AM
I'm big enough of a fan of Star Wars to have tattoos on both of my arms and I just don't see that.

He is stopping bullets (well lasers) with his freaking swords. His swords. Seriously? He also is super fast. These are both borrowed directly from the first major scene of Episode I.

jeff_duke
12-14-2010, 04:16 PM
TF comes off as less corny; animation got a lot better in season 3-4.

What are you talking about TF G1 season 4? Unless you are talking about the Japanese continuation... we are talking about a 3 part mini series that concluded the series.

How did the animation get better? The only two episodes that come to mind with the the original G1 series was the animated movie and Call of the Primitives (which was actually really good).

Zefram
12-15-2010, 01:15 PM
The sheer outrage by the fandom once the design for Optimus was revealed was pretty surprising. It took some time, but TF Animated did win over a good number of fans.

I can personally attest to this and everything else Shin said. When I first saw the previews I was, "WTF is this SHIT?!", and did my best to avoid it, then I started hearing it was actually pretty good, and when I finally saw it I was, "Waitaminute... Grimlock and the Dinobots are actually pretty faithful, and the voice acting is good. Hmmm..."

So yeah, can't judge a book by its cover and all that.

Monkeywrench
12-16-2010, 04:53 PM
It's been said before but it really hit me during the 4th show. The way that they have written SE so far has been brilliant. The way he communicates with hand signals and when he holds his breathe during the smoke bomb was awesome. It shows that if you put some thought and effort into SE, he can still be a great asset to a kids cartoon.

Echo7Solo
12-16-2010, 05:10 PM
He is stopping bullets (well lasers) with his freaking swords. His swords. Seriously? He also is super fast. These are both borrowed directly from the first major scene of Episode I.

he isn't quite Jedi fast. I'll give you the sword thing but as far as him running extra fast like a Jedi I don't see it. I mean didn't heman block lasers with his sword too? So He-man is a jedi now too?

It's been said before but it really hit me during the 4th show. The way that they have written SE so far has been brilliant. The way he communicates with hand signals and when he holds his breathe during the smoke bomb was awesome. It shows that if you put some thought and effort into SE, he can still be a great asset to a kids cartoon.

yeah I agree.

jeff_duke
12-20-2010, 04:28 PM
he isn't quite Jedi fast. I'll give you the sword thing but as far as him running extra fast like a Jedi I don't see it. I mean didn't heman block lasers with his sword too? So He-man is a jedi now too?



yeah I agree.

Have you see the two part Arashikage series? It is episodes 4-5 I think. As for He-Man being a Jedi. Just do a search and you will find some images of photoshoped toys.