And.... I'm out... (A Joe fan script review)

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

Read the script. Wish I hadn't. Went over every word. Wish I hadn't. Tried to see if there were silver lining. Wish I hadn't.

Now, I won't give anything major away, but I was both delighted and disgusted with the Joe script.

Good points-

Ripcord isn't nearly as obnixious (on paper) as some of us fear. Whether Wayans changes that remains to be seen.

There's lots of sideplots, and if GI JOe has anything, it's side plots.

The Doctor, aka, CC, is extremely intelligent and knows what he's doing.

The armor, troops, weapons and the like sound great. The Accelerator suits sound plausable, and not any "lazers" to be seen. All sci-fi weapons are not only plausible, possible and understandable, but most are actually being designed and researched today.

Great moments that will make people go- DAMN.

Duke and Baroness relationship is interesteing at least.

Snake Eyes is indeed, BAD ASS.

There is much room for things to be added to the various storylines, such as the Commander, SE Vs SS (yeah, their final battle is INCREDIBLE, and if done right, seriously, forget Obi Wan Vs Anakin). Unfortunately, as far as I'M concerned, the final blow is kinda a let down, SE talks immediately afterwards, and there are flashbacks peppered throughout the sequence that kinda break up the action.

Lots of explosions.

The bad guys are credible, and competent. That's all I'll say, as I'd rather not get yelled at by Paramount, lol.

Since I don't want to get in twubble, I won't reveal exactly what kind, but according to what I read, expect a VERY popular troop builder type to show up...

You know those endings that make you go- "What?!?!? No way... And no we have to wait to find out what happens.... LAME!!!"...? This is one of them :D


Bad points

Snake Eyes is FRENCH, Storm Shadow is Korean, Scarlett is an AUSSIE.

Scarlett has almost ZERO personality other than being a cold hearted BOOKWORM. Heck, she's never... Kay, that might be too much to reveal...

Coupla Hollywood cliches.

Ripcord + Scarlett= Loss of appetite. Even if I wasn't an SE/Scar supporter.

Only three really big battles. The rest is plot build up, though good plot.

While there is certainly room for plenty of cameoes, none other than Shipwreck is realy mentioned, specifically. And trust me, it is ONLY a cameo at best.

Zartan is pretty much shown/mentioned twice, but at the very least, I can assure you, it will NOT be in vain. In fact, one could say his second scene holds the most possibilities and poses the biggest questions. But why do they have to give him a tick and make him crack his knuckles...?

The "BIG REVEALS" of CC and the SE Vs SS rivalry are slightly anticlimactic, as they, and other flashback storylines, do not finish until the very moment the conflict does, so there's no "It was him all along", as we are given clues to a question we weren't even told to consider. Basically, if the characters have pasts and histories with each other, but they come off rushed and unimportant due to the fact that they are spread over the course of the film.

SE Pulls a move that will have even his hardiest fans calling BS, and trully earning him the nickname "Deus Ex Machina"... Not that he doesn't deserve it. ;)

"Yo JOE" is now "GO JOES"..... Seiously, what was wrong with "Yo" Hollywood?

The character death READS (repeat, READS) very "throwaway". It makes me not even care they were in the movie at all...





There will be more coming, so check this post if you would like more.

[MAJOR WOLF]

Ripcord and Scarlett!!! No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

I hope that's not true!

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

It's in the script.

[Bug-Eyed Earl]

As for nationalities- look at the cast. It saws Hawk is British, but you sure as hell don't hire Dennis Quaid to do a British accent, and I doubt Rachel Nichols is going to do an Aussie accent. They seemed to have pussed out on making the cast as international as the script. I'm not saying I'm expecting it, but I wouldn't be surprised if they made SE an orphan from an unnamed Western country instead of specifically saying he's French. A single line from the young Storm Shadow is all that identifies him as French.

BTW- one thing I liked- the members of the Arash. clan take new names when they join. So Snake-Eyes is literally his real name- I never liked how the comics never seemed to explain why SE's name was classified, and what he did that was so important that caused it to be so.

As for Ripcord/Scarlett- she kisses him once before he takes off on a mission, and at the end, they're not exactly standing with their arms around each other, you know? From what I heard on imdb, I thought that if they listened to the fans and made SE/S in movie 2 they'd have to do some writing to get her away from Ripcord, but they could literally ignore Scarlett kissing Ripcord and get away with it.

To TheVileOne- I am merely saying that the S/R romance could literally be ignored in the next movie for all they do with it here, not saying I think they will go out of their way to go SE/S in movie 2.

[STORM SHADOW]

Snake-Eyes is American, period. And why would Hollywood do something like make SE French when they know France hates us?

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

True, with SE they don't say he's French, cept SS, but the script says he is. And SE talks... So heres waiting to see if he talks with an accent... GRIMACE...

But yeah, Storm Shadow, he's American in my book, too.

[Bug-Eyed Earl]

Snake-Eyes is American, period. And why would Hollywood do something like make SE French when they know France hates us?

I doubt SE would actually be that petty if he WAS French.

But, based on where the Arashikage dojo is located, it makes sense for SE to be French, I guess, if you need a Western orphan in that part of the world. But he can still be American.

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

True, and here's hoping that Hama fixes it. But, as far as the movie goer will know, SE does not have a nationality unless his accent gives it away, as SS calls him French, while Hard Master says he isnt... In what actually, looking at the script, kinda seems... Biggoted...

PLEASE KEEP IN MIND, THIS SCRIPT, IT'S REVIEW AND THE THINGS BEING DISCUSSED ARE NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF ANY CHANGES MADE TO THE SCRIPT BY LARRY HAMA OR ANY REWRITES.

Also, America RULEZ!!!

[Amaury Sanderson]

"And why would Hollywood do something like make SE French when they know France hates us?"

This is my first post here, i'm living in France and i can assure you French people are not "anti-américain". Some are confused by medias (the poor-minded), the others are watching your country with respect; myself with great respect.

Concerning a french Snake-eyes, i also think it's a lame idea. But in the past Mr Hama referred sometimes to European countries (Scotland for Scarlett, may be France for Zartan) in GI Joe.
I'm confident in Mr Hama, his choices will surely be soon explained.

Merci pour votre attention !

[VIPER 48]

"And why would Hollywood do something like make SE French when they know France hates us?"

This is my first post here, i'm living in France and i can assure you French people are not "anti-américain". Some are confused by medias (the poor-minded), the others are watching your country with respect; myself with great respect.

Concerning a french Snake-eyes, i also think it's a lame idea. But in the past Mr Hama referred sometimes to European countries (Scotland for Scarlett, may be France for Zartan) in GI Joe.
I'm confident in Mr Hama, his choices will surely be soon explained.

Merci pour votre attention !

Welcome to the tank, Amaury...

[gunslingercbr]

Ripcord and Scarlett!!! No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

I hope that's not true!

have you not been following any discussion about the movie at all?

[gijoevscobra4ever]

I also have the script. Read it and can confirm that SE-JOE NINJA is on the money with his observations regarding that draft. Hopefully, Hama is altering it, or has thrown out most of it. I too think this movie is pretty anti climactic. Paramount says this is a beginnings story. Sure but begin it with a bang not a whimper. I think this pales in comparison to any Joe related story already in existence. SE being French is silly and I have nothing against the French. Zartan cracks his knuckles and has a tick. Scarlett has the personality of a dead fish. No flint. Duke and Baroness relationship is as pedestrian as they come. Soldiers wearing super suits. But hey, they're releasing a live action JOE movie so I'll be there because that has been the only movie I've wanted to see since I got my first Joe in 82'. The cartoon was cool but I wanted something as epic as the original Star Wars. Real Joe, real action.

On another note, this story would be better suited for TV. Maybe one live action movie and a kick ass TV series. Battlestar meets 24 meets Lost meets the Unit meets V, meets...

That would rule.

Yo Joe!!!

Paco

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

Personally, I'm still going to see it. Theres enough good things in it to keep me interested, and please, I'll be one of the loudest cheerers (F you, usher, I waited 22 years!)

[STORM SHADOW]

This is my first post here, i'm living in France and i can assure you French people are not "anti-américain". Some are confused by medias (the poor-minded), the others are watching your country with respect; myself with great respect.

Concerning a french Snake-eyes, i also think it's a lame idea. But in the past Mr Hama referred sometimes to European countries (Scotland for Scarlett, may be France for Zartan) in GI Joe.
I'm confident in Mr Hama, his choices will surely be soon explained.



Sorry for the misunderstanding, but i meant the French as in French Government. And secondly, Amaury Sanderson was American, i believe, as well. Snake-Eyes was American, and i believe Storm Shadow was Japanese-American, born here. Hollywood is anti-American, that is a fact nobody can deny.

[gijoevscobra4ever]

Definitely going to see it. I've been collecting Joe since 1982 when I got my first Joe, Rock N' Roll. Those were the days. You could roll into a department store and find rows and rows of Joe. I saved everything Joe I ever had and still collect. Some call me Joe obsessed. But, I still think Paramount is F-ing up. Joe could be epic. The script we read is mediocre at best but most of Hollywood is mediocre at best. The Marvel run is written better. The current WWWIII run is written better. Hell, most of the comics under the Joe title crush Beattie's attempt at writing this screenplay. Still, with Hama on board, I still hold out hope for the best.

[Caliburn]

True, and here's hoping that Hama fixes it. But, as far as the movie goer will know, SE does not have a nationality unless his accent gives it away, as SS calls him French, while Hard Master says he isnt... In what actually, looking at the script, kinda seems... Biggoted...

PLEASE KEEP IN MIND, THIS SCRIPT, IT'S REVIEW AND THE THINGS BEING DISCUSSED ARE NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF ANY CHANGES MADE TO THE SCRIPT BY LARRY HAMA OR ANY REWRITES.

Also, America RULEZ!!!

I'm not sure what you think Hama was brought in to do? He has not been added as a Screenwriter but as a consultant. I don't think major changes are going to happen only tweaks here and there. Yes they can drop the whole French Snake-eyes, or tweak the relationship with Ripcord and Scarlett ~ but all in all what you read is what they are shooting.

[Shin Densetsu]

The big question is whether this is one of the final scripts or not. It has changed quite a lot these past few years.

[Gulfster]

I play xbox live all the time and it seems everyone from France and England HATE Americans. I tell them I'm not in the government so don't blame me but no country is perfect. Try playing xbox live in Rainbow Six vegas2 rooms in the early morining when the europe playing anti americans are on.Never knew how much we were hated.

[Caliburn]

I play xbox live all the time and it seems everyone from France and England HATE Americans. I tell them I'm not in the government so don't blame me but no country is perfect. Try playing xbox live in Rainbow Six vegas2 rooms in the early morining when the europe playing anti americans are on.Never knew how much we were hated.

Yet they play a game set in America.........LOL.

[Crimson Rage]

For the record.
Me English
Me no hate Americans (or America)

The storyline snippets revealed here sound okay to me to be honest. Not really a reason to 'get out' that I can see.. Things like dialogue will probably be being polished until quite late in the day.

[STORM SHADOW]

I play xbox live all the time and it seems everyone from France and England HATE Americans. I tell them I'm not in the government so don't blame me but no country is perfect. Try playing xbox live in Rainbow Six vegas2 rooms in the early morining when the europe playing anti americans are on.Never knew how much we were hated.

Off-Topic:Try playing Call of Duty 4 online...talk about being hated. You'll be blown away. I know most of it is immature rabble from ignorant children, but adults are harsh on that game, and they know what they are saying.

On-Topic: I think Hama doesn't have the muscle people on hre think he does. I understand not makin a "perfect" JOE representation, but if you make the changes i have sen so far, it's not G.I. JOE anymore, it's just someone's kinda-close story.

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

I've run into a few meanies, but plenty of polite individuals as well.

[gunslingercbr]

The big question is whether this is one of the final scripts or not. It has changed quite a lot these past few years.

this is the final script, which has since been tweaked here or there, but nothing regarding the plot or its major points. there hasn't been any rewrites on the set outside of the typical filming things numerous ways to see if any are better. but nothing, as far as I know, has been altered that changes the movie as it is in the script that many have read. so, they are filming numerous versions of SE's and SS fight, the "death" that has been revealed as well as eliminating the death, the Ripcord/Scarlett kiss and the scene without it -- those are typical of filmmaking and don't really count as rewrites.

as far as Snake Eyes being French -- does it matter if he never speaks? no. his country of origin will be irrelevant to the film, it is merely a description in the script that is never expanded upon in action, and if you don't read the script won't know just by watching the movie.

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

as far as Snake Eyes being French -- does it matter if he never speaks? no. his country of origin will be irrelevant to the film, it is merely a description in the script that is never expanded upon in action, and if you don't read the script won't know just by watching the movie.

Dude, he talks. A couple of times as a kid and in a flaskback, and then twice as Snake Eyes towards the end of the film.

[gijoevscobra4ever]

Agreeing with gunslingecbr here, a few minor adjustments to script but that's it. There is a scene regarding SE and being French or living in France. Hopefully that was removed. I read the first draft (four brothers scribes and the current or third draft by Beattie. Yay they're finally making a live action Joe film but will it be all that it could be, not close. We'll all be settling when we sit down to watch the movie in 2009. It could be epic but it's only okay and that's mainly because many of us diehard collectors/fans have been waiting for this for over 20 years. I'll see yinz guys at the movie.

Paco

[Warrant Officer Flint]

I wish I could have read the script. Does anyone have a copy they could PM me?

[Golobulous]

trust me you don't want to read it it will only break your heart.

[Warrant Officer Flint]

I still do. I am a loyal joe fan no matter what.

[gunslingercbr]

Dude, he talks. A couple of times as a kid and in a flaskback, and then twice as Snake Eyes towards the end of the film.

you're right, it has been a while since I read it.

[Roadblock Recall]

you're right, it has been a while since I read it.

I haven't read it at all. But isn't this an origins kinda film? So maybe Snakes gets his voice box slashed or something so he won't be talking anymore in the following films.

[copywrite]

Probably the most likely scenario.

[Amberbratt]

i wonder how ray park sounds when he talks?

I hope he doesn't sound like a retard or a hay seed.

sometimes people can look imposing or statuesque" (sp?)

until they open thier mouths and they sound like Jerry Lee Lewis

[Dark 5cythe]

A bit off topic, But non americans are pricks on xbox live to americans. Its so much hatred.

and im like damn, its not like im fighting the war.

[Dark 5cythe]

i wonder how ray park sounds when he talks?

I hope he doesn't sound like a retard or a hay seed.

sometimes people can look imposing or statuesque" (sp?)

until they open thier mouths and they sound like Jerry Lee Lewis

Ray park has one of the worst voices ever. Very soft spoken.
They usually dub him over.

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

Hate to burst your bubble, gents, but Snakes does not get disfigured in this film.

[Shin Densetsu]

From what you read, does Storm Shadow seem like a good guy living a lie to find the truth and kick the living hell out of someone who framed him?

[Crimson Guard 51]

Sorry for the misunderstanding, but i meant the French as in French Government. And secondly, Amaury Sanderson was American, i believe, as well. Snake-Eyes was American, and i believe Storm Shadow was Japanese-American, born here. Hollywood is anti-American, that is a fact nobody can deny.

you're right about all of that, SS...

as far as joe canon goes.

BUT they have a better story in mind...you see, we've been too simple minded for hollywood's taste...not sophisticated enough.

if snake eyes is french, AND talks...i'm out...i hate to say it, i really do.

but THIS is NOT GI Joe.

[Shin Densetsu]

Snake Eyes is American but it was never stated in the comics where his ancestors originated. It could be from France, Poland, England, who knows? It was never said. Even prior to his accident, in the comic he was mysterious, even when he was in Stalker's unit in Vietnam and Storm Shadow was the only one who he had a bond with.

If the movie tanks the toys will most likely kick ass. I hope the movie is good, these changes are surprising.

[Crimson Guard 51]

Snake Eyes is American but it was never stated in the comics where his ancestors originated. It could be from France, Poland, England, who knows? It was never said. Even prior to his accident, in the comic he was mysterious, even when he was in Stalker's unit in Vietnam and Storm Shadow was the only one who he had a bond with.

If the movie tanks the toys will most likely kick ass. I hope the movie is good, these changes are surprising.

not surprising if you look at hollywood's past.

take the John Grisham books...best sellers...what did Hollyweird do?

changed them all...until he got his name big enough he could demand creative control in his contracts.

good for him.

think about THIS...

GI Joes:
Hawk: british?
Snake Eyes: French
Scarlett: australian...for god's sake, she was named after Scarlett Ohara in 'gone with the wind.' this one is probably the biggest stretch.
Breaker: french morrocan
Heavy Duty: british??? i can't remember, but NOT american.
Ripcord: american

Cobra:
Cobra Commander: american
baroness: american

let's stop right there...there are as many 'bad guys' who are american as there are 'good guys.'

guess that's why it's not "a real american hero."

[Caliburn]

[QUOTE=gunslingercbr;98040]

those are typical of filmmaking and don't really count as rewrites.
QUOTE]

That is incorrect, they are indeed called re-writes and they count!

[Caliburn]

Ray park has one of the worst voices ever. Very soft spoken.
They usually dub him over.

Where in the world did you get that information from? If you are referring to when he was a stunt man ~ well he was a stunt man and stunt men do not usually have SAG cards, so they do not talk.

[Crimson Guard 51]

does it matter if the guy talks like a 10 year old choir boy or a 30 year old eunuch?

bad ass, for sure...soft voice...yeah, that too. probably good inspiration to become said bad ass.

one reason i liked his choice as snake eyes was cause he wouldn't have to talk.

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

Sorry for the last response...

STORM SHADOW IS AN A**HOLE in the film. Yeah, maybe he's being controlled, but the guy is a pri** to everyone, especially SE.

There is, however, a SLIGHT MOMENT that could lead to the tragic story we all know and love...

Nationalities of characters:

Hawk: British
Duke: American
Scarlett: Austrailian
Breaker: French-Morrocan???
Snake Eyes: "French"
Shipwreck: Spanish
Ripcord: American
Cover Girl: German

Commander: American
Destro: Scottish
Baroness: American
Storm Shadow: Korean
Zartan: None that I saw... HOPEFULLY Austrailian
"Doctor Mindbender": Presumably American, not stated.

[tile_mcgillus]

I really wish everyone would just drop this whole nationality stuff. Its getting really old. Is it really that big of a deal where SE grew up? No. Not at all. To me it seems nitpicky.

After last years Transformer debacle, where the only thing they got right was where they come from, I will gladly take reversal for GI JOE. When, your staring at your picture perfect FRENCH Snake Eyes being a bad ass ninja...feel for the Transfans that had to try and watch a giant chicken pretend to be Starscream.

[ARBCOToys]

I hope more people drop out of watching this film. I hate packed theaters on opening nights.

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

I hope more people drop out of watching this film. I hate packed theaters on opening nights.


LOL...

BTW, it's not just SE's natgionality, it's the fact that there are MANY things that have been changed. Yay, we have some picture perfect characters WHO ARE NOTHING LIKE THEMSELVES. I'd call that A MOCKERY.

[Snake-Eyes]

"He's the world's greatest ninja, but he's also next-generation. He's not afraid to use a sword one second, and a split-second later he's pulling out his Glock," Sommers told USA Today. "His chief nemesis is arguably the world's other great ninja, Storm Shadow. The two grew up together, were blood brothers and now are mortal enemies."

Sommers stressed that the movie is an origins story, so his challenge is to explain why the bad guy wears a metal mask, why Snake Eyes doesn't talk and other strange things kids took for granted. "For people who know nothing about it, it'll make sense," Sommers said. "And to people who love this stuff, it'll show where they all came from."

Snake Eyes does not talk according to director Stephen Sommers here is the link for the entire article: http://www.superherohype.com/news/gijoenews.php?id=6958

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

It explains why he doesn't talk;

HE TAKES A VOW OF SILENCE UNTIL THE HARD MASTER'S KILLER IS BROUGHT TO JUSTICE, AND WHEN SE "KILLS" SS, SE CAN TALK.

BTW, that whole thing is revealed like throwaway info in the final battle. Origin epic my BEEP.

[Snake-Eyes]

It explains why he doesn't talk;

HE TAKES A VOW OF SILENCE UNTIL THE HARD MASTER'S KILLER IS BROUGHT TO JUSTICE, AND WHEN SE "KILLS" SS, SE CAN TALK.

BTW, that whole thing is revealed like throwaway info in the final battle. Origin epic my BEEP.

If SE kills SS that is lame as hell I hope you just meant if he kills SS not that he does kill SS. I also figured you read the info I posted but figured I would throw it on just in case.

[copywrite]

feel for the Transfans that had to try and watch a giant chicken pretend to be Starscream.

Now that I think about it. He really did look like a chicken.

[Crimson Rage]

Now I'm out of here!
JOE movie threads that is. Sorry to see Transformer hate happening all over again with people using the 'look' as indication things will be good/bad. Fantastic Four? Hulk (1), Thunderbirds? The 'look' was pretty much spot on in those cases yet the films were reviled by the majority.
Transformers on the other hand changed the look but retained the concept and was, in my opinion, an enjoyable movie. We'd be lucky to get something half as good for GI JOE, but at least I'm prepared to wait for the finished product before dismissing it.

[03Mach1]

Read the script. Wish I hadn't. Went over every word. Wish I hadn't. Tried to see if there were silver lining. Wish I hadn't.

Now, I won't give anything major away, but I was both delighted and disgusted with the Joe script.

Good points-

Ripcord isn't nearly as obnixious (on paper) as some of us fear. Whether Wayans changes that remains to be seen.

There's lots of sideplots, and if GI JOe has anything, it's side plots.

The Doctor, aka, CC, is extremely intelligent and knows what he's doing.

The armor, troops, weapons and the like sound great. The Accelerator suits sound plausable, and not any "lazers" to be seen. All sci-fi weapons are not only plausible, possible and understandable, but most are actually being designed and researched today.

Great moments that will make people go- DAMN.

Duke and Baroness relationship is interesteing at least.

Snake Eyes is indeed, BAD ASS.

There is much room for things to be added to the various storylines, such as the Commander, SE Vs SS (yeah, their final battle is INCREDIBLE, and if done right, seriously, forget Obi Wan Vs Anakin). Unfortunately, as far as I'M concerned, the final blow is kinda a let down, SE talks immediately afterwards, and there are flashbacks peppered throughout the sequence that kinda break up the action.

Lots of explosions.

The bad guys are credible, and competent. That's all I'll say, as I'd rather not get yelled at by Paramount, lol.

Since I don't want to get in twubble, I won't reveal exactly what kind, but according to what I read, expect a VERY popular troop builder type to show up...

You know those endings that make you go- "What?!?!? No way... And no we have to wait to find out what happens.... LAME!!!"...? This is one of them :D


Bad points

Snake Eyes is FRENCH, Storm Shadow is Korean, Scarlett is an AUSSIE.

Scarlett has almost ZERO personality other than being a cold hearted BOOKWORM. Heck, she's never... Kay, that might be too much to reveal...

Coupla Hollywood cliches.

Ripcord + Scarlett= Loss of appetite. Even if I wasn't an SE/Scar supporter.

Only three really big battles. The rest is plot build up, though good plot.

While there is certainly room for plenty of cameoes, none other than Shipwreck is realy mentioned, specifically. And trust me, it is ONLY a cameo at best.

Zartan is pretty much shown/mentioned twice, but at the very least, I can assure you, it will NOT be in vain. In fact, one could say his second scene holds the most possibilities and poses the biggest questions. But why do they have to give him a tick and make him crack his knuckles...?

The "BIG REVEALS" of CC and the SE Vs SS rivalry are slightly anticlimactic, as they, and other flashback storylines, do not finish until the very moment the conflict does, so there's no "It was him all along", as we are given clues to a question we weren't even told to consider. Basically, if the characters have pasts and histories with each other, but they come off rushed and unimportant due to the fact that they are spread over the course of the film.

SE Pulls a move that will have even his hardiest fans calling BS, and trully earning him the nickname "Deus Ex Machina"... Not that he doesn't deserve it. ;)

"Yo JOE" is now "GO JOES"..... Seiously, what was wrong with "Yo" Hollywood?

The character death READS (repeat, READS) very "throwaway". It makes me not even care they were in the movie at all...





There will be more coming, so check this post if you would like more.

This is not the 1984 GI Joe series redone in 2009. This is a movie to re-introduce GI Joe to the world. Very similar to Transformers. You might have heard of that film. You know, the one that raked in over $700 million at the box office and rejuvenated the brand for years to come? Yeah, that one. So get off the soap box and enjoy the 2009 movie for what it will be. A great ride through the Joe universe and an opportunity to see the franchise that you 'love' continue well into the next few decades.

Now where's that 'Stephen Sommers raped my childhood' sig?

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

I'm well aware this is a re-visioning, but I don't have to like the direction it's going. For example, I love all the GI JOe/TFs crossovers, and I miss Reloaded, so it's not like I'm against re-imagining the Joe universe.

[Omegawrath]

I'm not sure what you think Hama was brought in to do? He has not been added as a Screenwriter but as a consultant. I don't think major changes are going to happen only tweaks here and there. Yes they can drop the whole French Snake-eyes, or tweak the relationship with Ripcord and Scarlett ~ but all in all what you read is what they are shooting.
Agreed. Mr. Hama's involvement was minimal. He may have told the people in charge what will and won't work, but he seems to be a fairly liberal-minded individual with regards to what works and what does not. ANYTHING can work if executed properly.

He didn't do rewrites. He didn't "fix" the script.

[03Mach1]

I have visions of TFW or DonMurphy.net all over again. The movie is over a year out and people are already casting it off. Please, for the love of all that is good, just wait and see. Writing it off now as the most wretched piece of filmaking ever put on celluloid is the most ignorant thing any one of us can do. Hasbro learned alot from Transformers and I'm sure they will do everything in their power to ensure this movie is as big a success.

[gijoevscobra4ever]

"He's the world's greatest ninja, but he's also next-generation. He's not afraid to use a sword one second, and a split-second later he's pulling out his Glock," Sommers told USA Today. "His chief nemesis is arguably the world's other great ninja, Storm Shadow. The two grew up together, were blood brothers and now are mortal enemies."

Sommers stressed that the movie is an origins story, so his challenge is to explain why the bad guy wears a metal mask, why Snake Eyes doesn't talk and other strange things kids took for granted. "For people who know nothing about it, it'll make sense," Sommers said. "And to people who love this stuff, it'll show where they all came from."

Snake Eyes does not talk according to director Stephen Sommers here is the link for the entire article: http://www.superherohype.com/news/gijoenews.php?id=6958

Sommers is full of poop. "For people who love this stuff?" We already know plenty about SE, CC, SS, Destro from the 25 years of Joe we've all read. They didn't need to make anything up or alter it. Pure laziness. Will we, the hardcore joe fans, go see it? Yes. But it will be a far cry from anything we've read and come to know as G.I JOE. The Duke and Baroness... come on, that's weak and lazy. I'd much rather the Baroness have nothing but hatred for every Joe especially Scarlett. Maybe she could pop Scarlett's cap and send SE on a rampage. But loving Duke, ehh... Personally I like Cobra Commander better as a cult leader indoctrinating man woman and child of small American towns then creating his army we know as Cobra. CC being Rex, being a Joe, being a disfigured mad scientist... That sucks too. Sommers the goods were already there but apparently you can't read. No wonder most of your scripts suck.

Lastly I seriously can't wait to see Joes run through walls with their super suits on. That, my friends, is what being a real American hero is about. Running through walls. CGI goodness. YAY!!!

Now before I get slammed by someone saying "we'll don't go see the movie.", this is my opinion. It would be impossible for me not go see the movie. I'm a Joe addict. Have been one since 1982. My Joe's killed my Star Wars figures and ruled my toy box. Now I have them safely stored away. I will see it even after reading the script. I'll be somewhat sad but leave feeling some relief that someone actually attempted a live action Joe movie. It will make crazy money and guarantee that Joe will be a toy my son will enjoy. That to me is priceless but it still saddens me. Maybe some Christmas years down the road, I'll bring home a modern G.I. JOE play set for my son like my dad did for me. See you all at the movie.

Paco

[gunslingercbr]

Sommers is full of poop. "For people who love this stuff?" We already know plenty about SE, CC, SS, Destro from the 25 years of Joe we've all read. They didn't need to make anything up or alter it. Pure laziness.
actually, I think simply retreading the silly cartoon or melodramatic comic would have been lazy -- it doesn't take any effort or creativity to do so.

analyzing the concepts and creating a new story -- actually being creative and putting an effort into it -- is the opposite of lazy IMO.

[Caliburn]

I'm well aware this is a re-visioning, but I don't have to like the direction it's going. For example, I love all the GI JOe/TFs crossovers, and I miss Reloaded, so it's not like I'm against re-imagining the Joe universe.

I don't see how you can call it a re-visioning? This is a live action interpretation of the comic / cartoon era of GI Joe. There is nothing to revision since it was never made into a film! Now if five years pass they make another film, well then we can toss around the re-visioning word.

[Quik Kick]

A ninja clan in the 60's/70's would never let a Korean into their sect even in today's society. Having a outsider into a clan such as French, British, Austra., or even Americans they would have to think 2 or 3 times to allow any of them. Eventhough, Japan disallowed Samurai and Ninja clans to be formed in the early 1900's, they still had a strict Samurai code during WWII. Even after that, during Vietnam War, a real ninja clan( a sect which harbors to kill someone) would have never allowed an outsider to their clan.

[Amberbratt]

I hope snake eyes visor is something like La forge from star trek or terminator type imaging...

maybe even predator... so he can see thermal imaging and stuff like that...

[Shin Densetsu]

A ninja clan in the 60's/70's would never let a Korean into their sect even in today's society. Having a outsider into a clan such as French, British, Austra., or even Americans they would have to think 2 or 3 times to allow any of them. Eventhough, Japan disallowed Samurai and Ninja clans to be formed in the early 1900's, they still had a strict Samurai code during WWII. Even after that, during Vietnam War, a real ninja clan( a sect which harbors to kill someone) would have never allowed an outsider to their clan.
The first 2 foreign students of Hatsumi Maasaki were white and Israeli.....(late 70's)

[Caliburn]

The first 2 foreign students of Hatsumi Maasaki were white and Israeli.....(late 70's)

More importantly.......its a movie who cares!

Are we really nitpicking the nationality of "REAL NINJAS" it just seems very silly. Again, It is a movie!

Oh, yeah for everyone on the thread ---- (not directly meant at you Shin - gotta keep the Mods off of me.......lol) In the movie Transformers, they~ the Transformers.........were not real! Cars and planes do not really Transform into Giant Robots!

[copywrite]

You guys are nitpicking everything. The vast majority of the people who see this movie aren't going to care about the real origins of the characters, or who is cast as who. They're going to see it based on image and marketing. And a lot of people will probably just see it because it's a GI-Joe movie. This really is Transformers all over again, just chill out and stop nitpicking everything.

[stknviper1071]

i can deal with snake eyes being french or whatever..and maybe...his vow of silence makes since.....but haveing him kill storm shadow then talking is wrong.

i mean how hard would it be to go with the whole zartan kills the hard master by mistake which is joe cannon (comic wise) and have SS seek the true killer then have him be the killer,,,(if i read one of the posts right).....the powers that be should know that SS is a popaler creation to come from the comic......to kill him in the 1st movie seems like a needless cheap thrill....unless its a trick and he comes back in the sequel due to a ninja healing trick LOL

other things i read in posts,,,,if its true....i might have to wait to dvd to see it cause i do not want to send 10.00 to see

RIPCORD AND SCARLETT GET THEIR FREEK ON

SNAKE EYES NOT DISFIGURED

BARONESS AN AMERICAN?????? HELL NO (A FORINGER WHO BECAME AN AMERICAN CITIZAN.THATS COOL WITH ME).....AUSTRIAN YES GERMAN DEFENTLY......RUSSAN, CHECK, OK TOO,,,,,I MEAN EVEN IN THE CARTOON SHE HAD A EUREPAN ACCENT

SCARLETT AN AUSSIE???? SHES IRISH AMERICAN

i think paramount and the whole crew involved should go back and watch all the toons, re read all the comics, marvel and devils due, read the file cards....and consult longer with hama cause this is going down the pipes quicker then a marathon runner with a case of the runs

[Crimson Guard 51]

I really wish everyone would just drop this whole nationality stuff. Its getting really old. Is it really that big of a deal where SE grew up? No. Not at all. To me it seems nitpicky.

After last years Transformer debacle, where the only thing they got right was where they come from, I will gladly take reversal for GI JOE. When, your staring at your picture perfect FRENCH Snake Eyes being a bad ass ninja...feel for the Transfans that had to try and watch a giant chicken pretend to be Starscream.

they did look like chickens...or pipe cleaners...

but there aren't JUST a few changes...and then hearing Sommers telling people that "for those familiar with the stories it will explain..." sorry...but STFU...

if he thinks Snake Eyes is a french ninja who grew up with a Korean Ninja in a Japanese Ninja dojo before taking a VOW of silence then he has NOTHING he can tell me about GI Joe...

SE is clearly described by Scarlett in the original "Snake Eyes: the origin" as a Small town All American guy who just had caught some bad breaks.

every comic continuity has been clear about his origin...yes you've had alternate realities ( gi joe vs transformers ) but those stuck closely to the original story...( SE is disfigured by a Decepticon / cobra attack, in which his family is killed...the attack is lead by CC, so you have him being disfigured, being made mute, and losing his family in VERY similar ways )

he, sommers, is telling us a VERY different story where the only things that are the same are the costume and the code name.

it is NOT a little issue, it's a big issue, cause it comes up here every week in a different thread, and HOW many threads come back to this?

change the looks, fine...

change the character and purpose of the story...

you've changed EVERYTHING...

[Shin Densetsu]

Storm Shadow killed? What the fuck?

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

I don't see how you can call it a re-visioning? This is a live action interpretation of the comic / cartoon era of GI Joe. There is nothing to revision since it was never made into a film! Now if five years pass they make another film, well then we can toss around the re-visioning word.

I mean it as in that this script is like "Ultimate GI Joe", you know? Like how Spider Man, X Men and other comic films were changed to tell a different, but "same" story.

And yeah, I'll be honest: Of course I'm still going to see it. If I said I wouldn't that'd be a lie, and even I know that.

[Amberbratt]

dood for real next thing we know road block will be mexican and lady jaye will be portrayed by a transsexual

what the hell is going on!?

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

Storm Shadow killed? What the fuck?

Lol!!!! His "death" is, how do you say, ambiguous. "Oh, yea, SE totally kills him."... Till you find out in the sequel he survived.

[Amberbratt]

hes a "ninja" maybe he really doesn't die and it was just a flesh wound... Lmao

[Crimson Guard 51]

does that mean Snake Eyes has to shut up again?

[gijoevscobra4ever]

actually, I think simply retreading the silly cartoon or melodramatic comic would have been lazy -- it doesn't take any effort or creativity to do so.

analyzing the concepts and creating a new story -- actually being creative and putting an effort into it -- is the opposite of lazy IMO.

gunslinger, I totally agree with you. What I mean is that I would much rather the core of what we know be part of the movie but told with a contemporary vision. Tell G.I. JOE now. The cartoon was in the 80's. The comics have gotten more and more dark in tone.

After reading the script, I feel that Paramount missed a lot of that core Joe stuff. It's fun but something is missing from it. I actually liked the first draft better than the current Dark Sky draft. It had more bravado and bite. I assure you there is nothing tremendously creative with their story. My calling it lazy refers to the blah plot, structure and story, and the lack of pulling from the "Hama-verse." Make the old stuff sing now. Make it contemporary. But again this is merely an opinion after reading both scripts, which sit on my desktop, and owning and rereading every Joe comic. They could have come up with something better. We all know it will make money. It's a no brainer. But, it could have been something magnificent. They rushed it because Transformers was huge. I enjoyed Transformers but that was mainly because it kicked ass to see them for the first time not as cartoons.



gijoevscobra4ever

[gijoevscobra4ever]

I'm sure they'll figure a way to bring SS back. I mean SE kills him, not by sword but... SS falls into something there's no way a human could survive but I know they'll figure away for him to come back.

gijoevscobra4ever

[slim19722]

I figured Storm Shadow would survive, seeing as how someone said Ray park signed on to do 2 sequals plus a Snake Eyes/Storm Shadow spinoff movie. Seems like they're doing the SE/SS background, kinda like the dvd that came with the Ninja Battles Set, where basicly SE & SS grew up together.

[gijoevscobra4ever]

actually, I think simply retreading the silly cartoon or melodramatic comic would have been lazy -- it doesn't take any effort or creativity to do so.

analyzing the concepts and creating a new story -- actually being creative and putting an effort into it -- is the opposite of lazy IMO.

Their effort was rushed and guided mainly by profit points and to beat the writers strike so that they could start filming February 15, 2008. Yes, I know we're talking about HW but that is why they're making it. It's all about the greenbacks.

I still agree with you. Will I see it? I love Joe. It would be hard to resist even after reading the scripts out there. I'm a Joe addict.

gijoevscobra4ever

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

I can live with SE and SS growing up together. Add somewhere that SE's family was killed, all the better. But I like my SE American. SE and Duke are both meant to portray the average, ideal American:
SE- Small town boy turned hero, blonde hair blue eyes. The guy that was pushed too far and is now a total bad ass.
Duke- Rough, tough guy with blonde hair, blue eyes, kick ass attitude, perfect soldier...
Scarlett- The Girl next door, humble, sweet, better mechanic than any guy on the block (an example, not to be taken literally)

See what I'm saying?

[GI Guppy the third]

I doubt Park could do a realistic French accent if he indeed speaks. If anything SE could be more British than American. To me, that's acceptable. Nothing against the French, but he relates more to a badass SAS or Delta Force commando.

I do have to give a couple of nods to the challenging aspects in this film as they are ballsy. There seems to be norms in Hollywood action films that this film is breaking. I can see two of them and while I have many gripes about a few of the plotpoints, I gotta give them credit for a couple of the more unsafe moves.

[GI Guppy the third]

I can live with SE and SS growing up together. Add somewhere that SE's family was killed, all the better. But I like my SE American. SE and Duke are both meant to portray the average, ideal American:
SE- Small town boy turned hero, blonde hair blue eyes. The guy that was pushed too far and is now a total bad ass.
Duke- Rough, tough guy with blonde hair, blue eyes, kick ass attitude, perfect soldier...
Scarlett- The Girl next door, humble, sweet, better mechanic than any guy on the block (an example, not to be taken literally)

See what I'm saying?


Not to point it out to start an argument, but that's borderline racist. In case you forget the only other time I can see blonde haired, blue eyed males being portrayed as the norm was during the Nazis reign.


Onto another point, I don't think SE was representive of anything American or even remotely considered average. If he represented anything American, it was the darker side, that few want to acknowledge.

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

Dude, no argument here. I meant the whole "Join the army today" propoganda. yeah, I know what the Nazi's were after, but I'm just saying, "the good ol' American boy" is stereotypically, and INCORRECTLY, portrayed as such.

And I thought SE was a classic represtation of just that; a dark, furious, righteous anger of a man who experienced horrible tragedy. Liek the Punisher of Batman, SE got kicked in the nuts repeatedly, till he became the bad mutha we all know and love.

I mean, Roadblock is another American stereotype. Big black guy, muscles out to here, RAPS.

Just saying, ARAH made LOTS of stereotypical American charactertypes that DEFIED their initial standing, and became so MUCH more.

[gunslingercbr]

gunslinger, I totally agree with you. What I mean is that I would much rather the core of what we know be part of the movie but told with a contemporary vision. Tell G.I. JOE now. The cartoon was in the 80's. The comics have gotten more and more dark in tone.

After reading the script, I feel that Paramount missed a lot of that core Joe stuff. It's fun but something is missing from it. I actually liked the first draft better than the current Dark Sky draft. It had more bravado and bite. I assure you there is nothing tremendously creative with their story. My calling it lazy refers to the blah plot, structure and story, and the lack of pulling from the "Hama-verse." Make the old stuff sing now. Make it contemporary. But again this is merely an opinion after reading both scripts, which sit on my desktop, and owning and rereading every Joe comic. They could have come up with something better. We all know it will make money. It's a no brainer. But, it could have been something magnificent. They rushed it because Transformers was huge. I enjoyed Transformers but that was mainly because it kicked ass to see them for the first time not as cartoons.



gijoevscobra4ever
I also liked the first version, it read like a Richard Marcinko novel, but I don't think it would have made as good of a movie. I agree, this movie is extremely simple, and moves from point A to B with little interest in depth of twists (the twists in the movie are extremely transparent), but it seems very deliberate with its intent, and that I like.

there isn't going to be anything great about this movie, and I am not optimistic on it being a major hit like Transformers unless it really captures a large children's audience, and if it does its simplicity will be perfect for them. it isn't how I would have made the movie, but that is also why I do like it - I'm always up for something different than I would have expected.

[TheVileOne]

That's pretty stupid if Snake Eyes "kills" Storm Shadow and begins talking again, only for Storm Shadow to come back in a sequel so does that mean Snake Eyes has to shut up again? Stupid inorganic way of making Snake Eyes silent. Snake Eyes should NOT want to kill Storm Shadow no matter what.

I won't accept Ripcord/Scarlett and no Scarlett/Snake Eyes. And hopefully drop all the stupid nationality crap.

I hate that it feels like GI JOE is incorporating all of Hollywood's anti-American and anti-military views that are BOMBING AT THE BOX OFFICE.

Besides that, what was specifically American about GI JOE? I dunno, I would direct some of you to find and read the final issue of the Marvel GI JOE series which is one of the greatest statements about Snake Eyes and his service to the flag as well as serving the flag in general. No one making this movie seems to want to remember things like this.

[gunslingercbr]

That's pretty stupid if Snake Eyes "kills" Storm Shadow and begins talking again, only for Storm Shadow to come back in a sequel so does that mean Snake Eyes has to shut up again? Stupid inorganic way of making Snake Eyes silent. Snake Eyes should NOT want to kill Storm Shadow no matter what.
no? I think if two highly dangerous ninjas are fighting and one is trying to kill th other, the other would defend himself with equal force and violence, which would probably lead to one of them dying. what should Snake Eyes do, put him in a sleeper hold? tell him to stop and play nice? oh wait, that would require him to speak. what would you have him do?

I won't accept Ripcord/Scarlett and no Scarlett/Snake Eyes. And hopefully drop all the stupid nationality crap.
but you would accept Scarlett/Ripcord if there was a Scarlett/SE's. that cheating bitch!

[gijoevscobra4ever]

I also liked the first version, it read like a Richard Marcinko novel, but I don't think it would have made as good of a movie. I agree, this movie is extremely simple, and moves from point A to B with little interest in depth of twists (the twists in the movie are extremely transparent), but it seems very deliberate with its intent, and that I like.

there isn't going to be anything great about this movie, and I am not optimistic on it being a major hit like Transformers unless it really captures a large children's audience, and if it does its simplicity will be perfect for them. it isn't how I would have made the movie, but that is also why I do like it - I'm always up for something different than I would have expected.

Again, agreeing with you buddy. I think hooking the children will be hard. Transformers looked awesome and turned my 32 year old ass into a 7 year old when I heard the sound of the Transformers transforming. Then seeing Optimus. The hottie brought me back to man hood. I'm looking forward to it even if it's simple and no character depth. It's still G.I. JOE. I thought the first script was way way cooler and had better jokes/characterizations.

[GI Guppy the third]

Dude, no argument here. I meant the whole "Join the army today" propoganda. yeah, I know what the Nazi's were after, but I'm just saying, "the good ol' American boy" is stereotypically, and INCORRECTLY, portrayed as such.

And I thought SE was a classic represtation of just that; a dark, furious, righteous anger of a man who experienced horrible tragedy. Liek the Punisher of Batman, SE got kicked in the nuts repeatedly, till he became the bad mutha we all know and love.

I mean, Roadblock is another American stereotype. Big black guy, muscles out to here, RAPS.

Just saying, ARAH made LOTS of stereotypical American charactertypes that DEFIED their initial standing, and became so MUCH more.

agreed.

[Derek2783]

I read the script last night, and boy was it a let down.

Even if you ignore that crappy Global Iintegrated Joint O. Entity thing. Even if you ignore that they cry "Go Joe". Even if you ignore that SS explicitly calls SE French. Even if you ignore that Ripcord is black, and makes out with Scarlett. Even if you ignore that they COMBINED the Mindbender and CC characters. Even if you ignore that GI Joe is NOT an American team at all, Hawk the leader is British, and that the Pit is located in frickin' EGYPT. Even if you ignore that SE talks and the Joes wear super-man suits. Even if you ignore the fact that they eliminated 99% of the original storyline and character background...

THE SCRIPT STILL SUCKS! The story is simplistic, the character development lazy, the dialogue bland, the plot "twists" lame... its going to be a spectacle for sure, but it won't be good.

Bottom line: Don't think "Transformers". Think "Starship Troopers"

[gijoevscobra4ever]

THE SCRIPT STILL SUCKS! It's simplistic, lazy, the dialogue bland, the plot "twists" are lame... its going to be a spectacle for sure, but it won't be good.

Bottom line: Don't think "Transformers". Think "Starship Troopers"[/QUOTE]

I believe Aristotle had his list of key elements of story/drama. At the top of the list was story, what is the drama, context, implications. Last was spectacle. Most of todays Holly-weird productions start with spectacle and rarely give you a story worth printing in the a children's book.

I agree with you bro, the script is bland.

[TheVileOne]

no? I think if two highly dangerous ninjas are fighting and one is trying to kill th other, the other would defend himself with equal force and violence, which would probably lead to one of them dying. what should Snake Eyes do, put him in a sleeper hold? tell him to stop and play nice? oh wait, that would require him to speak. what would you have him do?

At the end of the day, Snake Eyes could NEVER kill Storm Shadow. He never wanted to kill Storm Shadow. Their animosity and hatred for each other was all a big, tragic, crappy misunderstanding. It hurts Snake Eyes to fight Storm Shadow because he LOVES Storm Shadow.

The latest issue of American's Elite pretty perfectly sums up the Storm Shadow/Snake Eyes relationship. It's just a stupid inorganic way to make Snake Eyes silent. He thinks he kills Storm Shadow, starts talking again. Oops Storm Shadow is back in the sequel, have to shut up again. LAME!

but you would accept Scarlett/Ripcord if there was a Scarlett/SE's. that cheating bitch!

She's already gone Aussie and is cheating on Snake Eyes with Ripcord.

[Derek2783]

Their animosity and hatred for each other was all a big, tragic, crappy misunderstanding.


Well, that and some brainwashing... ;)

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

Well, that and some brainwashing... ;)
Not to mention that time SE stepped on SS's toe. I heard SS still vows for revenge on that... :P

[Crimson Guard 51]

Not to point it out to start an argument, but that's borderline racist. In case you forget the only other time I can see blonde haired, blue eyed males being portrayed as the norm was during the Nazis reign.


Onto another point, I don't think SE was representive of anything American or even remotely considered average. If he represented anything American, it was the darker side, that few want to acknowledge.

if you read the comics, all the lines, they are clear on what snake eyes looked like. if you have issues with that, see Larry Hama, the Japanese - American creator of these characters.

he was the typical middle american guy, joined the service to do his duty, and wasn't necessarily trying to be a hero, but do his duty for those around him...he comes home, is called a baby killer, and loses his family. he doesn't snap.

Devil's Due expands on where Hama ( marvel ) left off, by showing him getting into a pitty party, drinking, etc, and hooking up with a guy who's also had tough breaks. they start busting heads on street gangs, drug dealers, etc. when the other guy ( future Cobra Commander ) gets dark, snake eyes leaves, heads to Japan to join the Arashikage Clan. after the murder of the Hard Master, he comes HOME to America, moves into the mountains and live an isolated life.

not alot of dark stuff there.

when they were starting the GI Joe team, his country, the USA, came calling, and he answered, cause it was his duty.

he was injured on a mission, trying to save the girl he ( and no other Joe ) had fallen for, is disfigured and disabled, but signs in the dirt, Charlie Mike ( CM...continue mission ) and does so.

that's what makes him a bad ass...not some deep seeded hatred...his LOVE of his country and his unit. NOTHING will stop him from doing his job and his duty.

THAT is badass...

THAT is AMERICA.

The black clothing came from his specialty, which would be "commando", ( Delta force / seal 6 type stuff ).

these guys have picked a pretty good cast ( minus the mis-casting of Rock and Fraser ) but put them with a TURD script IF everything i've heard is correct.

it's getting to the point where i pray to God in heaven each night that they released a bunch of dummy scripts to fool us all...

[gunslingercbr]

At the end of the day, Snake Eyes could NEVER kill Storm Shadow. He never wanted to kill Storm Shadow. Their animosity and hatred for each other was all a big, tragic, crappy misunderstanding. It hurts Snake Eyes to fight Storm Shadow because he LOVES Storm Shadow.

not wanting to kill him and Stormshadow dying as Snake Eyes attempts to both stop him and defend himself are two different things entirely. there is nothing about SS's death in the movie that intimates that it is what SE's wants, so SE's desires are irrelevant. you are really reaching on this point to find something to criticize.

[Crimson Guard 51]

you are really reaching on this point to find something to criticize.


i agree...there is SO much more to criticize, why split hairs here?

is it believable that SS could be killed in a fight with SE? yes

it being a wise decision story wise and financially is another.

it's like Devil's Due killing off major characters for shock value...just wait until their last issue...there might not be a GI Joe team to be in the movie.

[Derek2783]

i pray that they released a bunch of dummy scripts to fool us all...

Actually, that was my first thought... "This isn't very good... maybe it was written just to fool people?"

...cause really, I've read fiction by 9th graders that had better plot, characterization, and wit.

Heck, I've seen MOVIES by 9th graders that had better plot, characterization, and wit!

[TheVileOne]

not wanting to kill him and Stormshadow dying as Snake Eyes attempts to both stop him and defend himself are two different things entirely. there is nothing about SS's death in the movie that intimates that it is what SE's wants, so SE's desires are irrelevant. you are really reaching on this point to find something to criticize.

The explanation for Snake Eyes not talking is that he has to kill the one who killed the Hard Master in order to break his vow of silence. So once SS is dead, he talks again.

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

I pray this is a fake script.

[gunslingercbr]

The explanation for Snake Eyes not talking is that he has to kill the one who killed the Hard Master in order to break his vow of silence. So once SS is dead, he talks again.

I read the script a while ago, I don't remember that being the reason he doesn't speak. but I also just skimmed over those flashbacks to get back to the battle - I just wasn't terribly interested in that backstory.

[Crimson Guard 51]

I read the script a while ago, I don't remember that being the reason he doesn't speak. but I also just skimmed over those flashbacks to get back to the battle - I just wasn't terribly interested in that backstory.

no offense man, but i TRULY don't understand that not being a big part of the story for you.

Snake Eyes is easily the most popular character, and his NOT speaking is a Huge part of who and what his character is.

i really don't understand that NOT being a big deal to you.

were you more of a fan of the toys, comic, or tv show? the reason i ask is that the first and third don't deal much with it.

as for the comic, it is always explained in a similar manner.

[Derek2783]

So once SS is dead, he talks again.

"Zee 'ard Masteu's meeudeuah eez dead. I kee-an break ze zee-lenze. Go ze Joe!"

PLEASE be a fake script!

[TheVileOne]

I read the script a while ago, I don't remember that being the reason he doesn't speak. but I also just skimmed over those flashbacks to get back to the battle - I just wasn't terribly interested in that backstory.

Based on your earlier posts you don't seem to remember much of what happens in the script.

[flashjack]

Bottom line: Don't think "Transformers". Think "Starship Troopers"

Oh? Scarlett or Baroness topless? I could live with that...

JUST JOKING JUST JOKING! :D

[Omegawrath]

Please keep in mind that this is a working script. It was probably written before Mr. Hama had any input and may have been revised since.

Further, rewrites happen on set all the time. Judging fom the uniform we saw Hawk in, as well as Quaid being himself, I'd bet that he's the good ol' Hawk we know and love. A few other characters are probably different, possibly radically so, than they were originally pesented.

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

"Zee 'ard Masteu's meeudeuah eez dead. I kee-an break ze zee-lenze. Go ze Joe!"

PLEASE be a fake script!

LOL, nice.

Oh? Scarlett or Baroness topless? I could live with that...

JUST JOKING JUST JOKING! :D

Dude, I'm not.

[Crimson Guard 51]

Please keep in mind that this is a working script. It was probably written before Mr. Hama had any input and may have been revised since.

Further, rewrites happen on set all the time. Judging fom the uniform we saw Hawk in, as well as Quaid being himself, I'd bet that he's the good ol' Hawk we know and love. A few other characters are probably different, possibly radically so, than they were originally pesented.

dude, i seriously pray that you're right.

that may seem crazy to say, but i really think if they make the movie we've heard on here, it will be a flaming hot turd.

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

lol, not crazy at all....

[Crimson Guard 51]

what do i know, i'm just a fanboy.

[copywrite]

At least you're accepting it now. :)

[bvance74]

Here's a thought, what if the script that's floating around cyber-space was put there to throw us off? Hey, it's possible. I've read many dio-stories that had some really good script writing to them. JMO

[Crimson Guard 51]

At least you're accepting it now. :)

at least you spelled it correctly.

[MAJOR WOLF]

lol, not crazy at all....

Riiiigggghhhhtttt!!! If you say so.

[MAJOR WOLF]

Here's a thought, what if the script that's floating around cyber-space was put there to throw us off? Hey, it's possible. I've read many dio-stories that had some really good script writing to them. JMO

I hope so...

[TARGETSIX]

Sorry for the misunderstanding, but i meant the French as in French Government. And secondly, Amaury Sanderson was American, i believe, as well. Snake-Eyes was American, and i believe Storm Shadow was Japanese-American, born here. Hollywood is anti-American, that is a fact nobody can deny.

What are you talking about? Please explain what you have against the French Government? In addition, please lay out these magical undeniable "fact(s)" that paint Hollywood as the anti-American boogy-man. You sound uninformed and blindly nationalistic.

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

Hollywood is exteremly liberal, and, while that is NOT A PROBLEM IN ANY WAY, with the current goverment being mainly conservative, it creates some friction. However, THIS THREAD IS NOT, NOR EVER HAS BEEN, ABOUT NAGGING ON OTHER COUNTRIES. IT IS ABOUT DISCUSSING THE FILM, AND YES, I ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS HERE AND THERE. IT HAS NOT BEEN SHUT DOWN BY MODS AS IT IS RESPECTFUL AND HAS NOT GIVEN AWAY TOO MUCH INFO ON THE MOVIE. RESPECTIVELY, PLEASE DO NOT DELVE INTO ANTI OR PRO GOVERMENT RANTS.

I'd rather not have this shutdown.

[Crimson Guard 51]

What are you talking about? Please explain what you have against the French Government? In addition, please lay out these magical undeniable "fact(s)" that paint Hollywood as the anti-American boogy-man. You sound uninformed and blindly nationalistic.

i'm gonna jump in here with a little info...

Amaury Sanderson was american...it was an alias used by Zartan. he ran away from a foster home...drifted around the us...into europe...spent alot of time in france...in their military ( AFTER joining the US military earlier in his life ).

DDP goes into pretty good detail about it.

as far as things against the French Government? ( and i'm glad you seperated the French Govt. from the people )

1.) after the fall of the french government in 1940, and the rise of the United States following WWII, france ( really starting in 1958 with DeGaulle ) began to distance itself from NATO, and occasionally siding with PRO-Soviet governments in Third World nations in order to maximize economic benefits for France.

2.) same time frame...fearing American domination of Western Governments, France distances itself when possible from the united states, often rallying the benelux countries, germany and italy as oppisition to American goals. ( http://atimes.com/c-asia/BC07Ag02.html )

3.) French opposition to the Iraq War...understandable, since there is AMERICAN opposition...but something France had in place that Americans did NOT: 22.5% of ALL trade goods imported to Saddam's Iraq, French made...$1.5 billion worth...some of it was military aid: An initial accounting by the Pentagon in the months after the fall of Baghdad revealed that Saddam covertly acquired between 650,000 and 1 million tons of conventional weapons from foreign sources. The main suppliers were Russia, China and France.
By contrast, the U.S. arsenal is between 1.6 million and 1.8 million tons. As of last year ( 04 ), Iraq owed France an estimated $4 billion for arms and infrastructure projects, according to French government estimates. U.S. officials thought this massive debt was one reason France opposed a military operation to oust Saddam.
The fact that illegal deals continued even as war loomed indicated France viewed Saddam's regime as a future source of income.


so, basically, our ALLY, France, has worked to help The Soviet Union DURING the Cold War, and Saddam's Iraq leading up to the Iraq war ( '03 ).

i can see where fans of "A Real American Hero" since '82 would be upset with the most famous, popular, and / or beloved GI Joe being made a French Soldier.

as for Hollywood, that is opinion. i happen to agree with the poster's oppinion that most of what we get from hollywood is ANTI military. i'm sick of seeing Janene Garafalo griping about Marines MURDERING innocents...( where's she been at since the facts of the case have come in and exonerrated the accused marines ? )

BUT, can you name some "pro U.S. Military" movies produced in the last 5 years?

can you name some ANTI U.S. Military movies? Lions for Lambs...dud...the one with Tatum and the CC Kid...how did it do / will it do?

that's without even looking.

[Shin Densetsu]

If you guys want to argue politics, take it to PM. Keep this script review and discussion on topic.


A lot of things may change for the movie, and it was said last year that misinformation would be leaked purposefully. Chances are, the movie we see next year will differ than the one we are reading about now. The exact same thing happened to the Transformers movie. I read the script reviews a long time before release, the revised draft reviews, the comic adaptation before the movie, and even the latter, which was the closest to replicating the movie, was still different from how the movie actually turned out.

As for Snake Eyes, I could care less if he was french or not, it doesn't matter, it was never hinted at it in the comic, all we knew was that he was white. For the movie, I think its best that his nationality is kept open for the audience to guess, as it adds to his mysteriousness.

Honestly, the main thing I am worried about is Storm Shadow's characterization. Ninja assassins and evil ninjas are all part of hollywood lore. Storm Shadow is different, and as such, should be written differently. Sure the audience that knew of gijoe from the past will expect a ninja clad in white who will oppose Snake Eyes, but he is a deep character, there is much more to Storm Shadow than a rivalry with the top joe ninja. Much more than just a yin to his yang. This is a guy who had to live a lie to seek the truth. Did Snake Eyes do that? Did anyone on the joe team do that? Did any of the initial Cobras? Hell no! Redemption has not been easy for the guy, and thats vital to his character, and portrayal.

[Crimson Guard 51]

actually, they were pretty specific about it ( snake eyes nationality ) in the comic, however, as ALL the GI Joes were AMERICAN citizens, it wasn't an everyday thing, therefore not an issue commonly dealt with.

scarlett mentioning him being your typical small town guy...all the way to him talking about fighting for HIS country, the US in his letter to the Wade Collins' son. his future apprentice.

it's very specific all throughout the original marvel continuity, and DDP built on it.

the politics was mentioned to answer a specific question and it gave specific answers. there are plenty of americans with some Anti - French feelings ( not harsh ones, mind you ). those fans could be upset about SE being portrayed as French in this version...and could see it as a slap in the face.

while i don't see it as the latter, the fact that he's french bothers me...as does Storm Shadow being a Korean ninja in a Vietnamese clan.

the Arashikage's were japanese and Tommy Arashikage is clearly stated in GI Joe #27 ( marvel ) as being Japanes - AMERICAN. he was in vietnam fighting for HIS country as was Snake Eyes.

i can take a hint however...i'll lay off of politics, but you mods are surpressing a strong sentiment here.

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

Shin, you are more than welcome to view Storm Shadow as an important and complex character, as he is; but I must point out, so is Snake Eyes. Just as you would want SS to remain true to his origin, so do we pining for an American SE.

And of course SE is American. Every member of Joe with the exception of Big Ben and Diana, and perhaps a couple of others that I forget, is American. Snake Eyes is explicitly described as "an all-American boy" and "that goofy kid down the lane" by Scarlett, and he served with an American LRRP. I have no problem with Snake Eyes being of French dissent, but just as you want Storm Shadow to be an anti-hero and complex, I want my bad-ass American ninja poster boy to be just that; a bad-ass AMERICAN ninja poster-boy. So, respectfully sir, I think we should both agree that there are what we, as individuals, believe to be core characteristics of our favorite Joes that should remain intact in a film interpretation, askew.

However, I would not be surprised if this was indeed a false script, and, honestly, I would be over joyed. However, I can only comment on that which I possess.

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

i can take a hint however...i'll lay off of politics, but you mods are surpressing a strong sentiment here.

I don't think they have a problem with our displeasure with a French Snake Eyes, but the political conversations that have included some inflamitary remarks.

[STORM SHADOW]

Crimson Guard 51, you put your thoughts together well. I admire how you put things, even though i am not as articulate...i can understand completely and i agree with you on all your points. It's like your reading my mind and typing it in the forum. Thanks for that.
We might have got "off topic" a bit, but i think politics have a part in this film, in a way, it is based loosely on military and personal conflict. People's origins play an important role on the direction of their path in life, thus the direction of the movie. The whole point is to delve dep into the life of the character's and the reason why things are so. It's not just a shoot'em up flick with great special-FX and tons of CGI, there's a story(s) to be told here.

Maybe I'm not making much sense, but i feel this thread should continue because this valid exchange of views is healthy and needed to express our ideas and opinions on something somewhat important to those of us who care deeply about this great toy line.

SS

[Shin Densetsu]

If Snake Eyes is your favorite character, I can understand you wanting him to be portrayed right. See to me, I think he will, in my opinion, there is less chance of screwing him up than Storm Shadow. Snake Eyes is always known as the guy that will save you against the odds, and kind of an unsung hero, he will do whats right without expecting recognition.

Where as Storm Shadow, depending on who you talk to, a lot remember him as the evil Cobra ninja from the cartoon. Larry Hama knows otherwise, because he created him. Does Hollywood? We as fans, know he is the tragic hero who got shafted pretty bad, and had to pretend he was evil, got brainwashed into being evil, then finally broke free years later. While he has never been a true evil character at heart, he is predominantly remembered as a Cobra.

Even amongst comic fans, there is a division amongst who prefers him as an evil antagonist, and those like me who prefer him with the joes since it makes logical sense.

With Snake Eyes we all know he will be portrayed as the super bad ass dues ex machina ninja commando, we just worry how they will portray his mannerisms and background. With Storm Shadow, we will either get a well fleshed out tragic hero, or another hollywood ninja, this time clad in white, with no substance other than opposing the main character and giving the team a hard time.

[Crimson Guard 51]

I don't think they have a problem with our displeasure with a French Snake Eyes, but the political conversations that have included some inflamitary remarks.


i haven't said ANYTHING negative about the french, but i did point out HISTORICAL incidents where their government's interest conflicted with ours.

that's all.

[Crimson Guard 51]

If Snake Eyes is your favorite character, I can understand you wanting him to be portrayed right. See to me, I think he will, in my opinion, there is less chance of screwing him up than Storm Shadow. Snake Eyes is always known as the guy that will save you against the odds, and kind of an unsung hero, he will do whats right without expecting recognition.

Where as Storm Shadow, depending on who you talk to, a lot remember him as the evil Cobra ninja from the cartoon. Larry Hama knows otherwise, because he created him. Does Hollywood? We as fans, know he is the tragic hero who got shafted pretty bad, and had to pretend he was evil, got brainwashed into being evil, then finally broke free years later. While he has never been a true evil character at heart, he is predominantly remembered as a Cobra.

Even amongst comic fans, there is a division amongst who prefers him as an evil antagonist, and those like me who prefer him with the joes since it makes logical sense.

With Snake Eyes we all know he will be portrayed as the super bad ass dues ex machina ninja commando, we just worry how they will portray his mannerisms and background. With Storm Shadow, we will either get a well fleshed out tragic hero, or another hollywood ninja, this time clad in white, with no substance other than opposing the main character and giving the team a hard time.


well since you put it that way... : )

i totally understand your point, and since Stormy was a favorite character of mine, and a MAJOR character...he should be done correctly...japanese american, etc. not korean with his vietnamese uncle. that is straight cheese.

as for snake eyes, EVERY spoiler i've heard with the exception of Ray Park sux regarding Snake Eyes...French, speaking, not with scarlett, orphan living in a ninja clan, etc.

[Crimson Guard 51]

Crimson Guard 51, you put your thoughts together well. I admire how you put things, even though i am not as articulate...i can understand completely and i agree with you on all your points. It's like your reading my mind and typing it in the forum. Thanks for that.
We might have got "off topic" a bit, but i think politics have a part in this film, in a way, it is based loosely on military and personal conflict. People's origins play an important role on the direction of their path in life, thus the direction of the movie. The whole point is to delve dep into the life of the character's and the reason why things are so. It's not just a shoot'em up flick with great special-FX and tons of CGI, there's a story(s) to be told here.

Maybe I'm not making much sense, but i feel this thread should continue because this valid exchange of views is healthy and needed to express our ideas and opinions on something somewhat important to those of us who care deeply about this great toy line.

SS


thanks for the compliment.

i think you put your thoughts out there very well, and i totally agree with the post.

the people who keep saying "get over it and move on" then say they care as much as we do just don't get it.

exchanging ideas is vital.

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

If Snake Eyes is your favorite character, I can understand you wanting him to be portrayed right. See to me, I think he will, in my opinion, there is less chance of screwing him up than Storm Shadow. Snake Eyes is always known as the guy that will save you against the odds, and kind of an unsung hero, he will do whats right without expecting recognition.

Where as Storm Shadow, depending on who you talk to, a lot remember him as the evil Cobra ninja from the cartoon. Larry Hama knows otherwise, because he created him. Does Hollywood? We as fans, know he is the tragic hero who got shafted pretty bad, and had to pretend he was evil, got brainwashed into being evil, then finally broke free years later. While he has never been a true evil character at heart, he is predominantly remembered as a Cobra.

Even amongst comic fans, there is a division amongst who prefers him as an evil antagonist, and those like me who prefer him with the joes since it makes logical sense.

With Snake Eyes we all know he will be portrayed as the super bad ass dues ex machina ninja commando, we just worry how they will portray his mannerisms and background. With Storm Shadow, we will either get a well fleshed out tragic hero, or another hollywood ninja, this time clad in white, with no substance other than opposing the main character and giving the team a hard time.

Very true. Storm Shadow has, in my humble opion in reading the script I did (whether this is the real script or not), lost ALL substance, and became nothing more than, quote, THE BAD GUY NINJA.

i haven't said ANYTHING negative about the french, but i did point out HISTORICAL incidents where their government's interest conflicted with ours.

that's all.

True. And they're valid and completely reasonable points. And I understand why they would make SE French in that regards; The most popular character made French in a movie that was about American heroes in a country that is (as far as our media portrays it) Anti-American is cheap, but effective marketing strategy. Ultimately though, I believe that when you worry more about making money and pleasing everyone, you end up pleasing no one, especially those who were most loyal to you throughout your endevors. And the product suffers the fate of a Uwe Boll film.

However, there are instances in which following a source material does not equal success. Arguably, in comparison, the Daredevil franchise had more resemblance to it's material than the Joe script. Daredevil was a blind attorney from Hell's Kitchen, he fell in love with the assassin Elektra and fought mercenary Bullseye who worked for the kingpin. Yes, there were changes (Bullseye irish, Kingpin black) but very few people I knew complained about those decisions as they were both done well. Peoplle had a problem with hoaky acting, improbable and over stylized fight sequences were lauded. And technically speaking, Batman and Robin was a perfect continuation to the old Adam West series, if not currently relevant.

On the flipside, if one removes all similarities to the material, you get a Uwe Boll-esque film, which are not onl considered some of the worst in history (why, Jason, WHY???), but also some of the most lackluster box office records in history, ESPECIALLY when one considers the already built up fanbase of some of them.

There is a fine line between too close, too far, and just no where near the ball-park as far as adaptations go. You can have directs, such as Sin City and 300, which proved that making a film version of a comic book was both possible and successful, or you can make a new story that stays true to multiple points of source material such as Batman Begins.

Ultimately, every movie needs a budget, crew, a good script, fans to see it, a cast and a plot. The sad thing about this film is that we, the fans, and the budget, seem to be the only two points going for this film at the moment. It will be a spectacle, that's for sure, but remember:

A spectacle is something paid attention to, and no more. It can be forgotten and left behind, and sometimes, the attention it gets is far from positive.

[Crimson Guard 51]

good points all. nothing left to be said i guess.

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

Well, there is one thing;

Flaharrgan-Noogen!!!!! Brwarrgh!!!!

[Derek2783]

My favorite joke used to be as follows:

"You're stuck in an alley, and a French guy, and American, and a German are all advancing with the intent of doing you harm. You have one gun with only TWO bullets, what do you do?

Shoot the French guy twice, of course."

You know what bugs me about the movie? Now we have to amend the joke to read "unless the French guy is clad in all black with a red Arashikagi mark on his shoulder, in which case he'll just dodge your bullets and kill you.

[gunslingercbr]

However, there are instances in which following a source material does not equal success. Arguably, in comparison, the Daredevil franchise had more resemblance to it's material than the Joe script. Daredevil was a blind attorney from Hell's Kitchen, he fell in love with the assassin Elektra and fought mercenary Bullseye who worked for the kingpin. Yes, there were changes (Bullseye irish, Kingpin black) but very few people I knew complained about those decisions as they were both done well. Peoplle had a problem with hoaky acting, improbable and over stylized fight sequences were lauded. And technically speaking, Batman and Robin was a perfect continuation to the old Adam West series, if not currently relevant.

this is where G.I. Joe comes into trouble with this argument -- Joe has no single source material other than the toys, which are an evolving concept. in RAH's hayday two entirely different stories were told -- the comic and the cartoon, both based on the same concepts from the toys. the movie isn't doing anything different than what the comics and cartoons did -- telling it's own story based on the concepts of the toys -- it's most basic concepts.

sure, the movie is using some of the concepts from the comic, and some from the cartoon, but the movie is not a retelling of either so can't depart from any source material by not following either to a tee.

[Falcon Fury]

G.I. Joe is a


REAL AMERICAN FREAKIN' HERO DAMMIT !!!


W T F is this international crap ???

This crap is pissing me off.

[gunslingercbr]

G.I. Joe is a


REAL AMERICAN FREAKIN' HERO DAMMIT !!!


W T F is this international crap ???

This crap is pissing me off.

great, we haven't heard that before. can we just a get a thread with this as a topic and everyone who wants to reiterate it can just post that they agree in it, or does this same post have to pop up incessantly in every movie thread?

[Crimson Guard 51]

the producers of the movie, the owner of the franchise, HASBRO said the movie was based on the comic, the original 152 issue run.

the cartoon was based on the comics and differred since they only had a few issues to look at when they started.

the last two comics runs came right off of the original continuity.

THAT makes the comics, in my opinion, the CANON of the GI Joe story.

they have changed much.

not little changes, big moby dick changes. and i think we, the fans who've kept it going, are the ones who are going to take said dick, if you know what i mean.

they changed it to tell a "better" story. in whose opinion?

the new fans are open to anything. why not please the old fans, get their money two or three times, AND the new people?

i'm afraid they're going to miss the old guys.

[gunslingercbr]

the producers of the movie, the owner of the franchise, HASBRO said the movie was based on the comic, the original 152 issue run.

the cartoon was based on the comics and differred since they only had a few issues to look at when they started.

the last two comics runs came right off of the original continuity.

THAT makes the comics, in my opinion, the CANON of the GI Joe story.

they have changed much.

not little changes, big moby dick changes. and i think we, the fans who've kept it going, are the ones who are going to take said dick, if you know what i mean.

they changed it to tell a "better" story. in whose opinion?

the new fans are open to anything. why not please the old fans, get their money two or three times, AND the new people?

i'm afraid they're going to miss the old guys.
yes, they said the movie was based on the comic, and some elements are. but based on the comic and completely follow it are two entirely different things. did they exaggerate how much to mislead the fanbase? probably. but did the fans also project too much into what they said? possibly.

the script obviously isn't based on the comic, but that doesn't mean that the story being told isn't good. and just because they are making it different doesn't inherently mean they think it is better, it is simply the story they want to tell, and that is their preference, not opinion, and they are the one's making it so they are the one's who get to make those decisions.

I'm obviously the oddity around here. I love my Joe, like you, but my interest of it isn't dedicated to it's past. I don't look at what is coming out and compare it to what has come before. the 25th Anniversary Joes are great because they are great in and of themselves, not because they are better than the new sculpt line or the original, and the movie doesn't seem cool because I think it is better, it seems cool because it is good in it's own right - no comparison necessary to anything that came in the 80's.

[Crimson Guard 51]

they can tell a new story based on the old characters just as good. i threw the word 'better' in there because a movie mark was pissed and used it on here a few days ago.

i think they've changed too much for me to get over personally.

if i feel that way, i'm betting others do too. i'm probably just gonna sit this one out, along with the other 3 members of the Fam, and let the kid drift away to the freaking power rangers. i could care less what they do.

[Shin Densetsu]

The new gijoe movie is a different continuity from the comics and cartoons. The Transformers movie, as much as it was influenced by G1(which is way more than people think), was a different continuity from the comics and cartoons too. This movie is influenced by RAH just as the Transformers movie was influenced by G1, but it won't be a direct adaptation, and neither was the Transformers movie.

Besides some of you don't realize what you are asking for. The Marvel run towards the mid 90's became "GiJoe starring Snake Eyes". I kid you not, its on the covers. Most of you do not want the movie to make Snake eyes too important, too heavily relied on. Nor do you want an abrupt ending that has too many unresolved issues.
the cartoon was based on the comics and differred since they only had a few issues to look at when they started.
Yet the cartoon had Duke going with Scarlett, even after the comics had established that Snake Eyes was her man. In fact, Duke was not introduced for 20+ issues in the comic. In the comic, Cobra Commander is a human who rules Cobra. In the cartoon, he turns half snake.

Yet people accept the cartoon, but cannot accept the upcoming movie?

The cartoon continuity, while possibly initially inspired by the comic, is different than the comic continuity. The cartoon had Spirit being able to take on Storm Shadow. Cobra La. In my opinion, the cartoon had much worse going on than the upcoming movie.
i think they've changed too much for me to get over personally.
Then don't watch. Its not worth your time to watch it if it personally affects you that much.

The movie is a new continuity derived from old continuities. Its not a direct adaptation, nor is it meant to be.

[Omegawrath]

Yeah. But like with Transformers, a lot of die-hard fans have been imagining a direct translation to live action film since the nineties and even the eighties.

Hollywood is like a pitcher of icewater to the crotch for us.

[copywrite]

They can't please everyone.

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

First, great points all. Second; this movie was indeed supposed to be based on the comics, though it has clearly moved away from the source material.

And the movie has disenfranchised itself from hardcore fans. And, arguably, changed the core concept of an American team of special ops against a terrorist organization. CHANGED. Snake Eyes is a mute ninja commando (CHANGED) who is in love with Scarlett (going with this as it's in the toys and comics, so 2/3, CHANGED), who is the girl next door type (CHANGED). The commanders are the American Hawk (CHANGED) and the grizzled veteran Duke (CHANGED). The team primarily fights a group of terrorists called Cobra (CHANGED, as of this movie), led by Cobra Commander (CHANGED till the end at least).

That is why some people are having a hard time with this movie, and their points are equally valid as are those who encourage the film. I will be rooting for GI Joe, and thus going to this movie despite what I read. I will be buyingthe toys that I like, despite their little resemblance to what I grew up with.

This is indeed a retelling, but you think Hollywood would have learned, re-tellings don't usually go over well.

[gunslingercbr]

First, great points all. Second; this movie was indeed supposed to be based on the comics, though it has clearly moved away from the source material.
yes, Brian Goldman said it was based on it, and like I said there are elements that are, so he was telling the truth from that perspective. as I said above, he never claimed it to be an adaptation of the comic, which is completely different. being based on something is far more vague and allows room for interpretation. besides, what they say really has nothing to do with the actual movie, only the way you perceive it and react to it. so, if you step away from the "lie" you believe you were told, can you judge the movie on its own merits beyond your disappointment that it isn't an adaptation of the comic?


This is indeed a retelling, but you think Hollywood would have learned, re-tellings don't usually go over well.
Tim Burton's Batman - retelling - major hit
Batman Begins - retelling - major hit
Transformer - retelling - major hit
X-Men - retelling - major hit
EDIT: Spiderman - retelling - major hit

sure, there are equal amounts of other retellings that sucked and were not, the point is that it isn't the retelling that is the problem, it is the quality of the retelling, so it isn't accurate to just blanket retellings as being failures when it isn't the case.

[Shin Densetsu]

If you look at most comic based movies, nearly all of them differ from the source material. Ninja turtles, Batman Begins, Superman Returns, X-Men, all of the ones in recent history were not strict adaptations of the comics they were based on. Even 300, as close as someone wants to say that was, was different from the comic. The closest comic based movie to come off as an adaptation is Sin City, and thats about it. We can argue that Spiderman was so close, but it was different. I see Gi Joe being no different.

Rule of thumb with comic based movies, is that they will differ. For example, I love Batman Begins, but was it 100% accurate to the comic? No. Nonetheless it was still a good movie.

The main thing I worry about in this movie is whether the director can pull it off or not.

[Griffin73]

Snake Eyes better not be French. I can't stand those cheese-eating surrender monkeys!

[Derek2783]

Snake Eyes better not be French. I can't stand those cheese-eating surrender monkeys!

But you gotta admit, if you could have a cheese-eating surrender monkey for a pet... you TOTALLY WOULD!

[cornbot]

g o joe???? BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :(

[Griffin73]

Yo Joe!

[Loki41872]

"Go Joe" is an industrial hand-cleaner.

And they're gonna need an industrial cleaner to wipe the stink off this one.

[copywrite]

man, you're cynical remarks towards this movie are becoming more and more creative by the day. :|

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

yes, Brian Goldman said it was based on it, and like I said there are elements that are, so he was telling the truth from that perspective. as I said above, he never claimed it to be an adaptation of the comic, which is completely different. being based on something is far more vague and allows room for interpretation. besides, what they say really has nothing to do with the actual movie, only the way you perceive it and react to it. so, if you step away from the "lie" you believe you were told, can you judge the movie on its own merits beyond your disappointment that it isn't an adaptation of the comic?


Tim Burton's Batman - retelling - major hit
Batman Begins - retelling - major hit
Transformer - retelling - major hit
X-Men - retelling - major hit
EDIT: Spiderman - retelling - major hit

sure, there are equal amounts of other retellings that sucked and were not, the point is that it isn't the retelling that is the problem, it is the quality of the retelling, so it isn't accurate to just blanket retellings as being failures when it isn't the case.


By no means am I saying this movie will flop based on being a retelling alone. I was not clear in my thoughts, and for that, my apologies. Most, shall we say, "bastardized" retellings, in which they go "prequel" such as House of the Dead, or try to make a "coherent" story based on material such as Double Dragon and Street Fighter, or just do something unique, "Hulk", or whatever move they make that distances the film from what made the product great are flops. Even Superman Returns is considered, by many, a dissapointment to the studios. By no means am I saying that being a "reimagining" will doom the film; Batman Begins is my favorite movie, and I can deal with some and specific changes, but my problems with this film are A, I dislike the script, B, too many things, which are considered by many to be core Joe plot points, have been abandonded and C, the director was made equally fun movies (th Mummy series) and downright cheesy (Van Helsing), so I have no faith in his direction (I'm waiting to see where things go). But there is only so far one can go, regardless.

A film is made up of various components, and when those components do not mesh, the film is considered "a dissappointment". Just look at X3 compared to the other two, and Spider-Man 3. There is npo gaurantee for success, and I will not claim to have the answers, but I will say that I find the Joe script to have multiple points in which it could easily appease fans, yet does not in an attempt to win over other audiences, which are shallow and cliche.

And if I was on the Joe team, and some idiot started saying "GO JOES!", I'm pretty sure I would make them my human shield next fire fight.

[Derek2783]

"Go Joe" is an industrial hand-cleaner.

And they're gonna need an industrial cleaner to wipe the stink off this one.

LOL. And in this case, I actually did.

[copywrite]

And if I was on the Joe team, and some idiot started saying "GO JOES!", I'm pretty sure I would make them my human shield next fire fight.

But you think "yo joe" sounds better? Please. That was probably the most cheesy thing about GI Joe, I couldn't stand it. I was hoping they would get rid of it altogether.

[Crimson Guard 51]

If you look at most comic based movies, nearly all of them differ from the source material. Ninja turtles, Batman Begins, Superman Returns, X-Men, all of the ones in recent history were not strict adaptations of the comics they were based on. Even 300, as close as someone wants to say that was, was different from the comic. The closest comic based movie to come off as an adaptation is Sin City, and thats about it. We can argue that Spiderman was so close, but it was different. I see Gi Joe being no different.

Rule of thumb with comic based movies, is that they will differ. For example, I love Batman Begins, but was it 100% accurate to the comic? No. Nonetheless it was still a good movie.

The main thing I worry about in this movie is whether the director can pull it off or not.


i think you defenders of the movie are missing the point.

most of us realize that comic inspired movies MUST be adapted somewhat. they did this, as was pointed out, with Spiderman, Batman, Superman, X - Men, etc.

in those movies, they left out MANY things about the characters.

BUT, let's ask...

what did they ADD to the characters?

seriously, i just thought about it.

in spiderman they left out MJ being a model, TV star, etc.

in GI Joe, they're leaving out Snake Eyes being mute / disfigured.

in Transformers, they left out the Transformers being stranded here 4 million years ago...

in GI Joe, they're leaving out the Joes being a hardcore anti-terrorist unit.

but what are they adding?

new nationalities...
new relationships...( scarlett / ripcord, duke / baroness )
a voice...( snake eyes )
new histories ( Cobra Commander )

should the list go on?

some of you have "insider" knowledge. i have none of this. i get on here once a day and get my info, and i've picked up this stuff.

the point most of us are making is that they are changing TOO much of the CORE characters.

i challenge you, friendly of course, to come up with more changes in these other adaptations.

( besides maybe Hulk, which was a terd )

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

But you think "yo joe" sounds better? Please. That was probably the most cheesy thing about GI Joe, I couldn't stand it. I was hoping they would get rid of it altogether.

Oh, Yo JOe was horrendous, but at least it's not like som guy on the field is rooting on a football team, but if they got rid of it all, I'd be fine.

You should see how they used "Kung Fu Grip".

[Crimson Guard 51]

for the record, "yo Joe" would be something left out that i would understand...due to the cheese factor.

that being said, i could see kids going with it. you'd be surprised what the 4 year old says...matter of fact, he's been watching the first 5 part series on dvd, and "yo joe" has popped out a few times.

[Shin Densetsu]

i think you defenders of the movie are missing the point.

most of us realize that comic inspired movies MUST be adapted somewhat. they did this, as was pointed out, with Spiderman, Batman, Superman, X - Men, etc.

in those movies, they left out MANY things about the characters.

BUT, let's ask...

what did they ADD to the characters?

seriously, i just thought about it.

in spiderman they left out MJ being a model, TV star, etc.

in GI Joe, they're leaving out Snake Eyes being mute / disfigured.

in Transformers, they left out the Transformers being stranded here 4 million years ago...

in GI Joe, they're leaving out the Joes being a hardcore anti-terrorist unit.

but what are they adding?

new nationalities...
new relationships...( scarlett / ripcord, duke / baroness )
a voice...( snake eyes )
new histories ( Cobra Commander )

should the list go on?

some of you have "insider" knowledge. i have none of this. i get on here once a day and get my info, and i've picked up this stuff.

the point most of us are making is that they are changing TOO much of the CORE characters.

i challenge you, friendly of course, to come up with more changes in these other adaptations.

( besides maybe Hulk, which was a terd )

First of all, I am open to how the movie will turn out, but by no means am I a movie defender or hater. I'm just open to the idea that maybe it will be good. Am I dissapointed with some of the things I have seen? Yes, a good number of people already know I am not a fan of Storm Shadow's costume shown a couple of days ago. I haven't even seen the movie yet, so how the hell will I know if it will be good or not? Secondly, no I do not have secret information, nor have I read the supposedly leaked script.

You want to talk about changes in movies? In Batman Begins, Ducard is Ras Al Ghul. In the comic, they are 2 seperate people. In Spiderman, Peter leaves Mary Jane then goes for Gwen. In the comic, Pete goes for MJ long after Gwen's death. In the X-men movies, Wolverine is one of the first members of the team. In the comics, he only joins up when most of the original team go missing. In X-Men 3, some mutants made just for the movie were introduced. In Spiderman 3 they added a surfboard and ninja costume to the New Goblin. They gave the symbiote costume for Venom a new look. In the 90's Batman movies, they gave him nipples. in the Transformers movie, they gave Megatron stupid dialogue. They gave Bumblebee a Camaro alt mode. They gave Optimus Prime flames. They gave the coordinates for the allspark and put them on glasses.

I'm not going to say the changes and rumored changes aren't dissapointing. Some of them are. However, the ones that are rumored, the ones from the supposed leaked script, maybe rendered invalid once the trailers and more information is disclosed. What if the supposed leaked script, is completely false and deliberately leaked?

Then most of the changes everyone is arguing about don't exist. Its too early to say most of the changes enacted will doom the movie to failure, none of us even know if the changes are legit or not.

Most comic based movies have changes, whether minor or major. Most comic based movies have not been direct adaptations, as close as some of the good ones are, they are different. X-Men was different same with Spiderman, I am Legend, Batman, and 300.

There is also the argument of whether a comic will even translate into a good movie. Sin City worked, but will others?

[General Hawk59]

Destro Please take down this guys script review

[Crimson Guard 51]

First of all, I am open to how the movie will turn out, but by no means am I a movie defender or hater. I'm just open to the idea that maybe it will be good. Am I dissapointed with some of the things I have seen? Yes, a good number of people already know I am not a fan of Storm Shadow's costume shown a couple of days ago. I haven't even seen the movie yet, so how the hell will I know if it will be good or not? Secondly, no I do not have secret information, nor have I read the supposedly leaked script.

You want to talk about changes in movies? In Batman Begins, Ducard is Ras Al Ghul. In the comic, they are 2 seperate people. In Spiderman, Peter leaves Mary Jane then goes for Gwen. In the comic, Pete goes for MJ long after Gwen's death. In the X-men movies, Wolverine is one of the first members of the team. In the comics, he only joins up when most of the original team go missing. In X-Men 3, some mutants made just for the movie were introduced. In Spiderman 3 they added a surfboard and ninja costume to the New Goblin. They gave the symbiote costume for Venom a new look. In the 90's Batman movies, they gave him nipples. in the Transformers movie, they gave Megatron stupid dialogue. They gave Bumblebee a Camaro alt mode. They gave Optimus Prime flames. They gave the coordinates for the allspark and put them on glasses.

I'm not going to say the changes and rumored changes aren't dissapointing. Some of them are. However, the ones that are rumored, the ones from the supposed leaked script, maybe rendered invalid once the trailers and more information is disclosed. What if the supposed leaked script, is completely false and deliberately leaked?

Then most of the changes everyone is arguing about don't exist. Its too early to say most of the changes enacted will doom the movie to failure, none of us even know if the changes are legit or not.

Most comic based movies have changes, whether minor or major. Most comic based movies have not been direct adaptations, as close as some of the good ones are, they are different. X-Men was different same with Spiderman, I am Legend, Batman, and 300.

There is also the argument of whether a comic will even translate into a good movie. Sin City worked, but will others?

i knew after i put it that "defender" of the movie would upset some...oh well, you're a big boy.

how about, to the more "open minded to change."

i noted in various arguments all of those changes you mentioned. the biggest one was the Mary Jane character being more of a mix of the MJ and Gwen characters in the comics.

that was pretty big. i'm guessin that they did it to appease the people who wanted MJ but didn't have time for the whole Gwen story.

in the movie, the X-Men were together at Xavier's place when Logan got there...close to the comic.

other than that, the changes were minor compared to major changes to nearly every character ( major being beyond costumes which can be changed, etc )

i mean, you MUST admit, ( from what we've heard ) EVERY character has major changes...well, maybe not Destro.

as for this being a leaked script, I HONESTLY hope so. i really do.

the RAH being left out, international joes, no SE / Scarlett, are all pretty big. changes with NO reasoning.

EVEN if they had to change the nationalities of some joes, WHY the major ones?

as someone pointed out, for a time in the Marvel run, the comic was GI JOE Starring: Snake Eyes, with Snake's name bigger than GI JOE.

( i purposely left out the TF script...too many raw wounds with too many people. i liked it. not as good as the original. my son has both DVD's...he prefers the '86 movie, for what it's worth. i think it means a good story will get over. the classics could be done with a good story and work )

[Shin Densetsu]

i knew after i put it that "defender" of the movie would upset some...oh well, you're a big boy.
I am not upset. Again, I will reiterate, I am not defending nor hating this movie. I can't hate what I haven't seen.

You seem pretty worked up on the changes, so don't watch it when it comes out. Saves you money, saves you time from bickering on the boards, doesn't desecrate the sacred childhood memories you hold onto so much. It will give you a peace of mind to know that you did not see something that butchered your childhood(judging by your other comments this is obvious that you see it this way). At the end of the day, you don't have to see it. You've complained enough about it that one would wonder why you would even bother seeing it if you hate it so much.

[lerath666]

this is a forum, it is made of opinions and text. here's mine.
The movie will Fail. HARD The screenwrites and directors are changing too much of the original dynamic, tying to hard to " put their spin on it" By doing that, the screenwriters, and the directors changes what people love about the movie. They feel that they "need to give the fans something new, so they will be suprised".
It's not what we want, we want the comics, or the cartoon, in movie format with real actors. ( This use of We is more intune with General fandom, not everyone) I've had this opinion eince the movie was announced.
At best, It will be a fun movie, a good action flic, just like X-men 3, what I like to call a "popcorn movie" ( IE it gives you an excuse to buy popcorn at the theatre) But that it. Like x-men 3 was NOT a good x-men movie, this film will not be a good GI Joe movie.
I'll still go see it, and like x-men 3, and AVP : R Once in the theatres on opening day will probobly be enough.
I just hope the movie toys don't fail SOO hard that it kills the Non-movie toys.


Too much was changed, it's going to be too different. it won't have the same feel as the comics nor the cartoon. How do I know this? The director himself said so.

" The movie is not going to have the same sort of feel as the comics or the movie, I'm aming for something more like Mission impossible 3 with ninja fights"

I won't be dissapointed, no matter what when i go see it, I'm expecting a Bucket 'O Fail. If I'm wrong, I'll be delighted, and If i'm right I'll be satisfied. No matter what, I doubt it will give me the same reaction as X3. I wanted to walk out, but i stayed hoping it would get better ( The "I want to Leave" point was when Jean kills Xavier).

For the record, this is how i approach all comic book movies, and other films about thngs from my childhood. the cases where i was suprised, and like it?

Spiderman 1
X-men 1
X2 (was acceptable, but not as good as the first, deviated a bit from the comics, but so did the first one, so it's ok)
Spawn

All i can think of off the top of my head.


A good example of a Comic book/ Cartoon movie that made the trasition to REal Film, and stayed fairly true to the comics, AND was a good film? Frakking Ninja Turtles. you hear that Hollywood? TAKE A LESSON FROM THE TURTLES! WE don't need updated storylines, or new character dynamics, Leave them alone, Pick a span of the comics, and condense it into a Move, and we will eat it up. the script is alreadsy there, just adapt it for film by writing it in script format.

[Shin Densetsu]

Me personally, I could do without them adapting a thing from the cartoon. The cartoon was good for nostalgia, and when I was younger, but the comic is far superior and relevant.
At best, It will be a fun movie, a good action flic, just like X-men 3, what I like to call a "popcorn movie" ( IE it gives you an excuse to buy popcorn at the theatre) But that it. Like x-men 3 was NOT a good x-men movie, this film will not be a good GI Joe movie.
X-Men 3 was not a good movie at all, X-men, comic, Marvel, or not, it was a horrible movie.
A good example of a Comic book/ Cartoon movie that made the trasition to REal Film, and stayed fairly true to the comics, AND was a good film? Frakking Ninja Turtles.
For the 1st one, and latest one, yes, for 2 and 3, hell no.

In my opinion, issues 1-21 of the Marvel run would have been a great premise for the 1st movie. The end, a reveal of the Arashikage tatoos, could either spin off onto a spin off movie, or lead into the sequel.
" The movie is not going to have the same sort of feel as the comics or the movie, I'm aming for something more like Mission impossible 3 with ninja fights"
Now was he referring specifically to the Hama run of gijoe comics, or just comic books in general? It sounds to me like he is going for a more believable premise on film, as opposed to the usual comic/cartoon based movies that tend to lean towards the over the top scenarios(basically what the new Speed Racer movie is doing, I think he is trying to stay away from making something like that).

In the end, as much as people complain, they will still watch it.

[lerath666]

no question. I'm debating whither or not to go opening weekend. also, I just discovered the director of this, also made Van Helsing...
All aboard the failboat everyone?

And I agree, I was specificly refering to the original Turtles movie. haven't seen the new one, i presume you mean the CG one? so itwas thAT GOOD EH? I'll look into it.
I've only recently started reading the comics. Up to issue 14 now. Torrents are a wonderful thing.

[lerath666]

one thing more... why do hawk and covergirl have the word GI joe printed all over their uniforms like some kids pajamas?

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

A good example of a Comic book/ Cartoon movie that made the trasition to REal Film, and stayed fairly true to the comics, AND was a good film? Frakking Ninja Turtles. you hear that Hollywood? TAKE A LESSON FROM THE TURTLES! WE don't need updated storylines, or new character dynamics, Leave them alone, Pick a span of the comics, and condense it into a Move, and we will eat it up. the script is alreadsy there, just adapt it for film by writing it in script format.

Ummm... Dude, in the comics, the first issue or storyline (don't remember which) had the Shredder being killed by a bomb, and his clone was killed by Leo. The series ended with like, ALMOST EVERYONE DYING. It was morbid. PRespectively, please tell me what the film had to do with the comics... And yes, I know this doesn't help my cause, lol. If there was indeed a different comic, please, by all means, accept my apologies.

Also, Skoch59, I am sorry if my "review" upset you in any way, as it was not meant to give any "HUGE" spoilers other than "descriptions". I tried not to give away anything, including examples of what I was talking about, lol. If enough people ask, I will delet it,as the last thing I would want to do is to ruin ANYONE's enjoyment of the film, but I believe people have the right to express their opinions, as well as tell others info they could benifiet from.

[Crimson Rage]

this is a forum, it is made of opinions and text. here's mine.
The movie will Fail. HARD The screenwrites and directors are changing too much of the original dynamic, tying to hard to " put their spin on it" By doing that, the screenwriters, and the directors changes what people love about the movie. They feel that they "need to give the fans something new, so they will be suprised"

I recall irate Transformers fans predicitng exactly the same thing for that film, throwing out such quotes as "They've changed too much for it to be a hit", "millions of fans will stay away in droves" and "bad word of mouth will make it tank". They were so resolute, so 100% certain.

What did it end up making? 700,000,000 plus? Seems the fans are a remarkbaly small percentage of the target audience after all, and the general auidience didn't know their Starscream from their elbow.

In the same regards, GI JOE will stand or fall on how well it entertains that general audience I think, not how well it resembles source material that'll be the vaguest memory in many people's minds.

[lerath666]

I recall irate Transformers fans predicitng exactly the same thing for that film, throwing out such quotes as "They've changed too much for it to be a hit", "millions of fans will stay away in droves" and "bad word of mouth will make it tank". They were so resolute, so 100% certain.

What did it end up making? 700,000,000 plus? Seems the fans are a remarkbaly small percentage of the target audience after all, and the general auidience didn't know their Starscream from their elbow.

In the same regards, GI JOE will stand or fall on how well it entertains that general audience I think, not how well it resembles source material that'll be the vaguest memory in many people's minds.

Unfortunately, you're right. But let me ask this, If you're gona change so much that it's no longer really what it came from, why not simply make it 100% original, instead of paying for an expensive liscense?

[gunslingercbr]

Unfortunately, you're right. But let me ask this, If you're gona change so much that it's no longer really what it came from, why not simply make it 100% original, instead of paying for an expensive liscense?

because you are still leveraging the concept of G.I. Joe for audience recognition of the brand which is the point of the movie, and two, the concept of G.I. Joe isn't dependent on adhering to the concepts in the cartoon or comic.

by your logic, there should never be any new incarnations of G.I. Joe because if they are going to do so, they may as well call it something else. using that logic further, Hasbro should have never made G.I. Joe A Real American Hero because it departed from what G.I. Joe had done in the past, and simply made a new brand, maybe called just A REAL AMERICAN HERO.

the toyline you love, and its comic and cartoon incarnations, are a direct result of a level of change you are suggesting not be done in the creation of this movie. you can't have it bot ways. if you accept RAH as G.I. Joe you have to accept this movie as G.I. Joe, even if you do not regard it as the same G.I. Joe, just as classic 12" fans don't regard RAH as the same G.I. Joe -- but it doesn't make either one, the movie or RAH, any less G.I. Joe than the classic 12".

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

One thing I would like to osay is, if I wasn't a fan of GI JOe, I wouldn't see this movie. Sorry, but it's the truth. Not with the script by itself.

Furthermore, TF appeals to a wider base of movie goers as

"GIJOE"- Your standard Hollywood futuristic military action spectacle < TF- Big F***ing robots fighting with phenominal CGI.

Honestly, which one would you think is going to get the public's attention more?

It's not that Joe is an inferior product, but rather that TF appeals to more, shall we say, average viewers.

[HartAttack]

just as long as there is no line in the script that has Cobra Commander talking to his father and saying "but you promised that I would rule the world when the Angels win the pennant" I won't care about canon changes until I see it.

[Crimson Guard 51]

because you are still leveraging the concept of G.I. Joe for audience recognition of the brand which is the point of the movie, and two, the concept of G.I. Joe isn't dependent on adhering to the concepts in the cartoon or comic.

by your logic, there should never be any new incarnations of G.I. Joe because if they are going to do so, they may as well call it something else. using that logic further, Hasbro should have never made G.I. Joe A Real American Hero because it departed from what G.I. Joe had done in the past, and simply made a new brand, maybe called just A REAL AMERICAN HERO.

the toyline you love, and its comic and cartoon incarnations, are a direct result of a level of change you are suggesting not be done in the creation of this movie. you can't have it bot ways. if you accept RAH as G.I. Joe you have to accept this movie as G.I. Joe, even if you do not regard it as the same G.I. Joe, just as classic 12" fans don't regard RAH as the same G.I. Joe -- but it doesn't make either one, the movie or RAH, any less G.I. Joe than the classic 12".


actually, spend some time getting to "know your Joe..."

the RAH comic line, incorporated the original line with the Joe Colton character...the original Joe.

they used him, then DDP used him...is still using him...

well, if DDP doesn't kill him off.

i don't think most fans would have a problem with changes in scenarios, different stories, etc, if they kept the characters the same.

if it was GI Joe, the bad ass "highly trained mission force" yada yada, fighting the scottish arms dealer in a 'prequel' with the members, main ones anyway ( hawk, Snake Eyes, Scarlett, Ripcord ) American...i don't think you would have a problem.

[lerath666]

exsactly. It's not that I don't want updated stories, or new content, it when they totaly disregaurd the existing content, and write new stuff into it's place. Instead of fitting the new story to the original information, they redesign the original information to fit their story.
Just my opinion, but that's shoddy storytelling. SOMETIMES that becomes nessacary, but only in eextreme instances ( Gi joe vs transformers, the cobr technology was based on stolen Transformer tech, ok, sure it's a hostory change, but it made the story ( which was more of a what if anyways) make more sense)

I honestly thiink the movie will be poor. But a movie can be garbage, and still make money. it just makes it profitable garbage.
And i'll still hope I'm wrong, hell i might even enjoy it, Still going to go see it, but My opinion is that it's going to be bad.
Case in point, were the kid's PJ's as battle cammo really nessacary?

[Crimson Guard 51]

I am not upset. Again, I will reiterate, I am not defending nor hating this movie. I can't hate what I haven't seen.

You seem pretty worked up on the changes, so don't watch it when it comes out. Saves you money, saves you time from bickering on the boards, doesn't desecrate the sacred childhood memories you hold onto so much. It will give you a peace of mind to know that you did not see something that butchered your childhood(judging by your other comments this is obvious that you see it this way). At the end of the day, you don't have to see it. You've complained enough about it that one would wonder why you would even bother seeing it if you hate it so much.


i'm glad you know me so well.

i really haven't decided if i'll see it or not. most of the time i look on here the spoilers are like getting kicked in the balls...well, not that bad.

as for it 'destroying my childhood'...nah. GI Joe was something i liked, kept up with, etc...not anywhere near to who i am, etc. the only reason i've said stuff about not going to see it is because i don't know if i can make myself get past SO MANY changes.

when i've gone to see other movies, i can see the changes, and deal with them.

you would have to admit, there are MANY changes in this thing. in my opinion, and many others, TOO MANY.

personally, i like your post elsewhere about the 1-21 comics for a movie adaptation...BUT, i'll surprise you...i'm open to a new story...i just WISH they would get the CHARACTERS correct.

that is my big problem. i can deal with lasers. i can deal with 'prequel' stories. i can deal with a new link between Baroness and Duke. i can deal with a foreign base. i can deal with nanomites. i can deal with mind control.

most of the Joes being Foreign is big.
Snake Eyes being French is HUGE.
ditto Snake Eyes talking
changing Snake Eyes background is big
Scarlett an Aussie is big
Storm Shadow being an asshole korean ninja in vietnam is pretty big.

i would bet most of us would not have a problem with this movie, and would be excited ( as i am about some things and WAS until i started hearing about the spoilers... ) IF they kept the characters pretty close to the originals. after all, it's about the Toyline, correct? that's what people have said.

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

I'm more than open to new stories, but I would want my GI Joe movie to resemble a GI Joe movie.

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

(chirp...)

[gunslingercbr]

actually, spend some time getting to "know your Joe..."

the RAH comic line, incorporated the original line with the Joe Colton character...the original Joe.
sure, Joe Colton is based on the Adventure Team G.I. Joe, but that in no way equates to RAH not being different from the Adventure Team.

Joe Colton was incorporated into RAH at it's very end in 1994 as an homage to the history of G.I. Joe. RAH was created in 1982 as a completely separate entity, just because it was tied to the Adventure Team 12 years later doesn't change the fact that RAH was a change in concept and execution from what G.I. Joe had been prior to it. your deductive reasoning is flawed in this matter.


they used him, then DDP used him...is still using him...
that is because he is a RAH character, and the comics are about RAH. I don't know how you are confusing this. being an homage to the original Joe in no way, shape or form means the story of RAH was originally conceived as an offshoot of the Adventure Team as you are attempting to infer. the two eras of G.I. Joe were made to fit together,but we are talking about how G.I. Joe has changed in concept and execution, which would go back to when RAH was made in 1982 and the ideas contained at that time, not how 12 years later it was creatively tied together.

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

Well, I always thought that Colton was "ssupposed" to be the GI Joe from the 60's. Granted, they never said it in plain writing as far as I can remember...

[Crimson Guard 51]

Well, I always thought that Colton was "ssupposed" to be the GI Joe from the 60's. Granted, they never said it in plain writing as far as I can remember...

yeah, they did...in marvel. the issue, can't remember the number, that was the 25th anniversary issue of GI Joe, period.

he said it himself.

[Crimson Guard 51]

sure, Joe Colton is based on the Adventure Team G.I. Joe, but that in no way equates to RAH not being different from the Adventure Team.

NO, Joe Colton IS the original from Adventure Team. Hasbro owned the license, gave it to marvel to run the comics, and they brought him in. SAME character.

the continuity is one of the things that makes GI Joe unique in the comic / fantasy world.

[Metroflex]

I recall irate Transformers fans predicitng exactly the same thing for that film, throwing out such quotes as "They've changed too much for it to be a hit", "millions of fans will stay away in droves" and "bad word of mouth will make it tank". They were so resolute, so 100% certain.

What did it end up making? 700,000,000 plus? Seems the fans are a remarkbaly small percentage of the target audience after all, and the general auidience didn't know their Starscream from their elbow.

In the same regards, GI JOE will stand or fall on how well it entertains that general audience I think, not how well it resembles source material that'll be the vaguest memory in many people's minds.


GREAT post. I believe you hit the nail right on the head. Fandoms often overestimate their power and importance. Transformers really showed that the rabid fans don't really make up that big a percentage of total moviegoers. A lot of adults watched Transformers as kids. A lot of them didn't stick with it though. So when the movie came out, a lot of them just said, "hey, I remember that show! I loved that show! I have to go see this movie" and they didn't really remember as much as a fanboy would, so the changes aren't that big a deal.

Same goes for the Joe movie. Most of the people out there know about GI Joe because they've heard of it or watched it as kids. Even if they saw every episode when they were little, that doesn't mean they're a die hard fan that still collects the figures, reads the comics and discusses it on fan sites like we all do. The changes won't matter to them as much as it does someone on this board. And like Transformers, it won't bother the majority of people who go to see it.

My brother was just as big a Joe fan growing up as I was, but he "outgrew it". I asked him the other day to describe Duke's outfit. He couldn't remember what Duke wore. I asked him to describe Snake-Eyes' outfit. He couldn't remember which one was Snake-Eyes. This is a guy who watched all the cartoons and collected all the toys with me, mind you.

Most of the people going to see the movie will be in the same boat. They're not as "emotionally invested" in the franchise as we uber-fans are. And our numbers are not big enough to make any difference at the box office by staying away. Our numbers are small, but we tend to believe otherwise.

[Shin Densetsu]

Most of the people going to see the movie will be in the same boat. They're not as "emotionally invested" in the franchise as we uber-fans are. And our numbers are not big enough to make any difference at the box office by staying away. Our numbers are small, but we tend to believe otherwise.
Absolutely correct.

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

Sadly, very true. However, even without my knowledge of the series coming into the movie, I would still call BS and proclaim the movie (based only on the script so far, so who knows what has changed) to be a dissapointment.

[Crimson Rage]

Even the new STAR TREK movie (people still don't know if it's a reboot or not given the secrecy surrounding it) is being aimed specifically at new viewers first and fans second. J. J. Abrahms has virtually said as much.
If a massive franchise like the STAR TREK universe has to throw out the net to get new viewers, then it's only logical that a GI JOE movie would too.

I haven't read the leaked JOE script (I don't intend to either) but people who have must be honest with themselves and decide whether their opinions of it are coloured by the fact that things have been changed or not.
If they take that into account and still think 'it's bad script anyway' (like SNAKE EYES-JOE NINJA) then fair enough.

To me, a good action film is a good action film, and I'm hoping that's what GI JOE delivers regardless of the changes. I'll wait and see, because a printed script is worlds away from the finished product on that big screen

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

Even the new STAR TREK movie (people still don't know if it's a reboot or not given the secrecy surrounding it) is being aimed specifically at new viewers first and fans second. J. J. Abrahms has virtually said as much.
If a massive franchise like the STAR TREK universe has to throw out the net to get new viewers, then it's only logical that a GI JOE movie would too.

I haven't read the leaked JOE script (I don't intend to either) but people who have must be honest with themselves and decide whether their opinions of it are coloured by the fact that things have been changed or not.
If they take that into account and still think 'it's bad script anyway' (like SNAKE EYES-JOE NINJA) then fair enough.

To me, a good action film is a good action film, and I'm hoping that's what GI JOE delivers regardless of the changes. I'll wait and see, because a printed script is worlds away from the finished product on that big screen


With regards to that, I will say this-

Will this movie, based on it's script, have incredible moments? Absolutely. If you're just looking for explosions, action, FX and ninjas, then good sir, you have come to the right place. We got good ninjas, bad ninjas, sexy ladies, futuristic military vehicles and hardware, guns, explosions, tanks, super villians, sci fi elements, love stories, national monuments being destroyed and flashbacks galore!!! Why, good customer, you'll be hard pressed to find anything with this much potential to go "BOOM!" so loud you crap yourpants, HA HA!!!

Does that make it good?

By God no.


Now, would I enjoy this film more if I was NOT a Joe fan? Probably. Would it entertain me? Hell yeah.

I would rank it with Transformers, Smokin Aces and James Bond, but unfortunately, not with Jason Bourne, Batman Begins and the Departed like, if done right, I could easily see it becoming. Yes, yes, my hopes are high in that regards, but Hollywood has proven you can do a thoughtful adaptation of something and make it grand.

[ThePatriot]

yeah, they did...in marvel. the issue, can't remember the number, that was the 25th anniversary issue of GI Joe, period.

he said it himself.

It's Marvel GI Joe A Real American Hero issue 86 and it was his wife Jane that stated he was the original GI Joe. Jane is the original GI Joe Action Nurse from the 1967 release of the toys. Joe is the original GI Joe for the Action Soldier 1964 release of the toys.

NO, Joe Colton IS the original from Adventure Team. Hasbro owned the license, gave it to marvel to run the comics, and they brought him in. SAME character.

the continuity is one of the things that makes GI Joe unique in the comic / fantasy world.

Joe Colton was the original GI Joe Action Soldier released in 1964 and served with the Adventure Team during the 1970's. From my understanding is that Larry Hama was given free reign to tie the original GI Joe Action series and GI Joe Adventure Series into the GI Joe A Real American Hero series of toys and to present it as a single continuity. Sigma 6 and GI Joe Extreme aren't portrayed as being in the same continuity as GI Joe Action series and GI Joe A Real American Hero.

[Lady Joe]

I'm so excited for this movie. I hope that doesn't make me a bad person. :) :) :)

I grew up in the 90s so the costume changes don't bother me so much. It just looks like a really fun movie with a lot of interesting characters.

[TheLongestDay]

having read the script-i think its fair to say that this movie will be full on popcorn,in fact there is no doubt about that...but there are quite a few little nods to the fans that i wasnt expecting that gives me hope...


But just remember-hollywood will mess with the characters as they see fit if they think itll help to cram it all into a 2 hour movie.

Just look at what burton did in Batman with Joker killing bruce waynes parents and spider-man where peters best friends dad becomes a supervillain then a cool scientist guy he meets becomes one then the guy who killed his uncle becomes one then the guy trying to take his job at the bugle becomes one.....bear this in mind when the movie comes out thats all im sayin

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

Please keep in mind, most of those villian origins are actually pretty accurate to the comics.

[gunslingercbr]

NO, Joe Colton IS the original from Adventure Team. Hasbro owned the license, gave it to marvel to run the comics, and they brought him in. SAME character.

the continuity is one of the things that makes GI Joe unique in the comic / fantasy world.

yes, he is the same, but that still has nothing to do with RAH being separate from the Adventure Team as a concept. that was a clever way to tie them together 12 years after RAH was created, but that doesn't change the fact that in 1982, when RAH was released, it was completely separate.

kudos for the creativity to tie them together, but that doesn't make them the same.
I'm so excited for this movie. I hope that doesn't make me a bad person. :) :) :)

no, it just means you aren't a real Joe fan. :D G.I. Joe is and can only be how it was in 1983 through 86, and any deviation from the ideas from that period are not G.I. Joe according to the elitist fans.

[Loki41872]

This movie needs pink unicorns! I can't believe there are no pink unicorns.

[Cobra-Viper]

So for those who have read the script could you give me a summary only without the spoilers? That would be really kind! Just would like to know whats going on and why people are so against it after reading the script...

[gunslingercbr]

So for those who have read the script could you give me a summary only without the spoilers? That would be really kind! Just would like to know whats going on and why people are so against it after reading the script...

It's G.I. Joe vs Destro, the Baroness, Storm Shadow and Vipers, with the intro of Cobra Commander setting up the sequel. sounds like the core premise of the G.I. Joe vs Cobra concept to me, but to others it is not unless it is a direct adaptation of the specifics of the comic. and therein lies the disagreements.

[Loki41872]

It's G.I. Joe vs Destro, the Baroness, Storm Shadow and Vipers, with the intro of Cobra Commander setting up the sequel. sounds like the core premise of the G.I. Joe vs Cobra concept to me, but to others it is not unless it is a direct adaptation of the specifics of the comic. and therein lies the disagreements.


If the movie actually was that little summary, it would be OK. It's all the other stuff that's in there that has everyone upset. 99% of my disagreements are about the character origins and the political slant of the movie.

G.I. Joe is about America's special mission force against Cobra, a mostly international terrorist organization.

Making the movie be about G.I.J.O.E., a mostly international special mission force against the evil American terrorists is what has most people angry.

[SportingViper]

This interview with the producer of the Joe movie is one of the reasons why people are upset at the direction of this movie:


Collider: A lot of people associate Joe as an American kind of thing, like an American mythology. How are you going to make it so it’s or are you going to make it so it’s a world-wide kind of thing?



Lorenzo di Bonaventura: One of the aspects that I find when you read the comic book—forget the pre-83 Joe because its clearly what that is—but when you read the comic book, it’s a group of good guys going after a group of bad guys. We have a really interesting international cast and I personally view the world in a very polyglot sort of way, go Barack Obama, and so we wanted the movie to really reflect a modern worldview.

[Shogi]

If the movie actually was that little summary, it would be OK. It's all the other stuff that's in there that has everyone upset. 99% of my disagreements are about the character origins and the political slant of the movie.

G.I. Joe is about America's special mission force against Cobra, a mostly international terrorist organization.

Making the movie be about G.I.J.O.E., a mostly international special mission force against the evil American terrorists is what has most people angry.

I'm pretty sure they're making Destro Scottish. Doesn't quite sound like "American terrorists" to me

[gunslingercbr]

If the movie actually was that little summary, it would be OK. It's all the other stuff that's in there that has everyone upset. 99% of my disagreements are about the character origins and the political slant of the movie.

G.I. Joe is about America's special mission force against Cobra, a mostly international terrorist organization.

Making the movie be about G.I.J.O.E., a mostly international special mission force against the evil American terrorists is what has most people angry.

huh, American terrorists? like the Scottish arms dealer who is the main villain and a Korean ninja who is the resident evil bad ass? that hardly seems like American terrorists to me. sure, an american takes over at the end, but that hardly plays as an indictment on america. I mean, Cobra Commander was always american, and if they changed his nationality to another to not make "America" the villain, you'd complain about that too. you can't have it both ways.

yes, if you are only interested in G.I. Joe as an purely American team, this movie does not mean to cater to you. but there is nothing about G.I. Joe that does not mean the concept cannot evolve to embody the entire world's brave soldiers fighting for freedom just because the term originated as an American concept.

I still have yet to hear a logical argument against an international Joe team that betrays the concept of a multi-branch fighting force. all I hear is G.I. Joe is not G.I. J.O.E.. I'm afraid it is. the international team simply expands on the concept, it certainly doesn't desecrate it. that is the great thing about G.I. Joe -- it is a flexible concept that can be done many different ways.

[Loki41872]

I'm pretty sure they're making Destro Scottish. Doesn't quite sound like "American terrorists" to me

His ancestory is Scottish. Seems he does most of his business in America now. The Baroness was European, American now. Stormshadow will likely follow the comic backstory and join the Joes in a sequel. And, in the end Cobra Commander, a former U.S. Soldier, takes over the whole thing, while almost all of the Joes are from countries other than America.

Yes, in RAH, Cobra Commander, and most of Cobra were American, but so was G.I. Joe. The kept the concept of most of "the Enemy" being American, while making the Joe team a UN force. That's my main problem with the movie, and so far, nobody has offered a reasonable explanation for it. Despite all the eloquently-worded arguments as to way they had to do it to get a larger world wide audience, bla, bla, there's still no reason for it other than that.

The 25th Anniversary line is a direct retelling of the RAH continuity. Last time I checked it wasn't exactly suffering in sales for being "pro-American". Seems like that concept was doing fine for 25 years, then Hollywood got ahold of it. And in their infinite wisdom, determined that nobody wanted that story told.

Not one person has offered any proof that a Pro American "Real American Hero" wouldn't do well both here and worldwide. Transformers was a recruiting film for the Air Force, kicked ass world-wide. Iron Man doesn't beat you over the head with patriotism, but it's there. They even had the outright nerve to make the bad guys obviously arabs. Looks like that's doing pretty well.

It's those movies that have had the anti-American slant that have NOT done well. "Lions for Lambs", "Stop Loss", ect...

They don't NEED to change G.I. Joe to be more acceptable to an international audience, they just WANT to.

Some of you are just fine with it, and that's OK. This is America, and we are allowed to differ in opinion. I don't like it, and not because I'm an "Elitist Fan Boy". I don't like it because I grew up with G.I. Joe being American, fighting for freedom , wherever there's trouble.

[SportingViper]

I still have yet to hear a logical argument against an international Joe team that betrays the concept of a multi-branch fighting force. all I hear is G.I. Joe is not G.I. J.O.E.. I'm afraid it is. the international team simply expands on the concept, it certainly doesn't desecrate it. that is the great thing about G.I. Joe -- it is a flexible concept that can be done many different ways.



Here's your logical argument:
What if in 1982 Europe there was a toyline called G.I.Johan:A Real European Hero that was really popular and spawned a great cartoon and kick ass comic.Now let's say the G.I.Johan team was made up of different european nationalities.Each team member with his or hers own cool little history and personality.
Now let's say that after 25 years they announce a live action movie...everyone jumping for joy finally gonna see their favorite characters come to life...until they announce that most of the Johan team members are going to be american....that Scorpion-Eyes is not a french orphan with a vow of silence but an american who lost his voice in an accident during a mission.
How do you think europeans would react? I say pretty damned pissed just like G.I.Joe A Real American Hero fans are with the way the characters are being portrayed in this film.

And where is your logical argument that a G.I.joe A real American hero movie based on the real characters, not the bullsh@t ones , would not work as a movie?

[SportingViper]

Hey Loki41827, the reason for the UN like joe team is not to sell more tickets overseas,it's to cater to the movie producer's personal and political views as shown in this interview:


Collider: A lot of people associate Joe as an American kind of thing, like an American mythology. How are you going to make it so it’s or are you going to make it so it’s a world-wide kind of thing?



Lorenzo di Bonaventura: One of the aspects that I find when you read the comic book—forget the pre-83 Joe because its clearly what that is—but when you read the comic book, it’s a group of good guys going after a group of bad guys. We have a really interesting international cast and I personally view the world in a very polyglot sort of way, go Barack Obama, and so we wanted the movie to really reflect a modern worldview.

[copywrite]

Please, explain to me how that comes off as him wanting the movie to cater to his political views. He didn't even give his political view, other than throwing in Obama's name. He said he views the world in a polyglot sort of way. What exactly does that have to do with his political view? It's just a view he has about the culture of the world, and wants the movie to reflect that.

[Shin Densetsu]

According to Michael Bay, Bonaventura had nothing to do with the production of the Transformers movie, despite his title. It could be the same with the G.I. Joe movie.

[gunslingercbr]

The 25th Anniversary line is a direct retelling of the RAH continuity. Last time I checked it wasn't exactly suffering in sales for being "pro-American". Seems like that concept was doing fine for 25 years, then Hollywood got ahold of it. And in their infinite wisdom, determined that nobody wanted that story told.
I certainly hope you aren't attempting to correlate the success of a toyline with adult male toy collectors with the interests of the rest of the entire movie going public.
Here's your logical argument:
What if in 1982 Europe there was a toyline called G.I.Johan:A Real European Hero that was really popular and spawned a great cartoon and kick ass comic.Now let's say the G.I.Johan team was made up of different european nationalities.Each team member with his or hers own cool little history and personality.
Now let's say that after 25 years they announce a live action movie...everyone jumping for joy finally gonna see their favorite characters come to life...until they announce that most of the Johan team members are going to be american....that Scorpion-Eyes is not a french orphan with a vow of silence but an american who lost his voice in an accident during a mission.
How do you think europeans would react? I say pretty damned pissed just like G.I.Joe A Real American Hero fans are with the way the characters are being portrayed in this film.

And where is your logical argument that a G.I.joe A real American hero movie based on the real characters, not the bullsh@t ones , would not work as a movie?
I hate to break this to you, but that isn't a logical argument but contrived conjecture. how do I think they would react? I don't know, and neither do you.

[Crimson Rage]

Originally Posted by Loki41872

The 25th Anniversary line is a direct retelling of the RAH continuity. Last time I checked it wasn't exactly suffering in sales for being "pro-American". Seems like that concept was doing fine for 25 years, then Hollywood got ahold of it. And in their infinite wisdom, determined that nobody wanted that story told.
.

That sounds like an argument put forward by Transformers fans to support why they thought their movie must be a G1 themed movie: The G1 comic is "going strong", ergo the film must use it as it's source.

Sadly, the 15 - 20,000 people reading the G1 comic don't translate to a 'successful' movie audience. For the Joe film to be considered a success, it'll probably have to make at least $300,000,000. There's no way the hardcore fanbase can deliver that!

So, the producer has to consider how to make the film appeal to as diverse an audience as possible in as many markets as possible, and that includes foreign ones. It's nothing to do with 'politics', it's everything to do with business.


Originally posted by Sportingviper

Here's your logical argument:
What if in 1982 Europe there was a toyline called G.I.Johan:A Real European Hero that was really popular and spawned a great cartoon and kick ass comic.Now let's say the G.I.Johan team was made up of different european nationalities.Each team member with his or hers own cool little history and personality.
Now let's say that after 25 years they announce a live action movie...everyone jumping for joy finally gonna see their favorite characters come to life...until they announce that most of the Johan team members are going to be american....that Scorpion-Eyes is not a french orphan with a vow of silence but an american who lost his voice in an accident during a mission.
How do you think europeans would react? I say pretty damned pissed just like G.I.Joe A Real American Hero fans are with the way the characters are being portrayed in this film.



Er, please look up 'logic' in the dictionary, come back and try again!
You know, it was an "international team" for me at the start. I knew it as ACTION FORCE and the membership was drawn from different countries around the world. DUKE was still American, but FLINT was English, Scarlett was Irish, Recondo was Australian, AIRTIGHT was German etc. When I got my first "ACTION FORCE" cartoon video (a partially dubbed GI JOE story), I discovered everyone spoke with American accents all of a sudden. I didn't throw my teddy out of the pram though, It was still ACTION FORCE. Then when the "AF" name was dropped, I didn't whinge about the changes. Then when everyone became American I didn't go out and kick a dog. This was when I was a kid too and such petulant activity could be expected.

[TheLongestDay]

although some of the characters are now american...according to the script our favorite ninjas have had their nationality changed too....

mind you it also says Hawk is British but im pretty sure quaid qont be putting on an accent

[TheVileOne]

The idea that it would hurt the overseas sales is hogwash. It's Hollywood claptrap. There's no factual proof to back it up either. Most movies people see in international territories are American movies. They like American movies more than their own domestic cinema.

[butter_the_pure]

French rule!

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

Kay, I have NO problem with the JOes being international.

Bring on Big Ben, Action Man, Vorona, MEMBERS OF THE OCTOBER GUARD would be awesome. Heck, change certain characters that are smaller (Recondo, Mainframe, Grunt), you want them to be from another country, go for it.

But Sscarlett, the American girl next door?

Snake Eyes, the mute (read, MUTE, if he as to talk, make it more similar to the whole Snake Eyes trilogy moment) commando who lost everything, from his family to his face, in service to his country.

Hawk, the young American veteran who quickly climbs the ranks.

Seriously, why make the big names foreign? I understand marketing and what not, but I do not agree with 3 of the big name characters losing something, in my humble and, yes, bias opinion, VITAL to their mythos.

[Elite Force Cobra]

it would be kinda kool, to have a set of 25th's in Canadian cards lol mix of variety...atleast they have card art on the waves present i remember the past waves didn't have card art ...

[KSavage]

According to Michael Bay, Bonaventura had nothing to do with the production of the Transformers movie, despite his title. It could be the same with the G.I. Joe movie.

money talks...producers = money

directors = big egos and don't like to look like someone is telling them what to do. or, perhaps he agrees with that particular view.

[KSavage]

NO, Joe Colton IS the original from Adventure Team. Hasbro owned the license, gave it to marvel to run the comics, and they brought him in. SAME character.

the continuity is one of the things that makes GI Joe unique in the comic / fantasy world.

good point.

[Derek2783]

Like it was mentioned in another thread, before Transformers was released the thought of Bumblebee not being a VWB and Megatron not transforming into a gun sounds horrible right? How much did that change end up effecting the movie? Answer, not a bit, and that was a cosmetic change, much more notable then SE being French. I can assure you, he won't have a French flag taped to his back.


I think the nationality issue will be very similar. It's one of those things where it's like...HOW COULD THEY DO THIS!! But at the end of the day, aside from the pride that you might have as an American *i have as much as anyone BTW* is it really effecting the movie? IMO, no. If everything else turns out ok something like that will end up being overlooked. It really has no relevance to the movies success if you think about it.


Here's an example....If you take two identical copies of the finished movie.....Leave Everything EXACTLY the same on both EXCEPT the part where you find out SE is French *probably a very small sequence in the movie* CHANGE ONE copy by saying American instead of French.....is the movie that much different? Like i said no relevance.


Snake-Eyes being French makes about as much sense as Cobra Commander being a former doctor, but that being said, I still have a problem, and not just with the nationality of Snake-Eyes.

First I have a problem not only with the nationality of Snake-Eyes but with the whole change to the story. The original had a grown American man, losing everything tragically, and feeling dead inside. He toys with the idea of going over to the dark side, but finds redemption and purpose after all the tragedy he's been through in, of all places, a ninja clan. Then a tragic misunderstanding results in years of turmoil and struggle. That story has weight, depth, complexity, and originality.

The movie takes all that and turns it into a story of an orphan boy taken in and raised by ninjas. The movie version is easier told in 5 minutes, but lacks everything that the original had going for it!

Secondly, I have a problem not only with the nationality of Snake-Eyes, but of the whole team. GI Joe was a team comprised of various genders, ethnicities, languages, and socio-economic status, and backgrounds, all united by a national pride and a national identity. That bonded the team. They all fought on the same side.

The movie turns that into a group of international hot-shots united because they're good at what they do. But they took away that unifying force of patriotism. I'm not just talking about "Go America", but about the bond that unifies countrymen in any country. GI Joe was about a group of Americans. Sure GI Joe has always been about a group of military hot-shots, but they were unified by the national pride and identity of GI Joe. The movie just puts a bunch of hot-shots together, and we root for them because they're cool people. Making them mutli-national upsets me not because I'm uber-patriotic (I'm a patriot, but that's very much besides the point in my argument here), but because it changes the dynamic of the team itself.

Not to mention, the term "GI Joe" is inherently American, and an international force would be pissed to have to be called "GI Joe". It makes as much sense as calling them "SAS - Superior All-nation Strikeforce" or something similarly stupid. Everyone knows SAS is a team of elite British operatives. Everyone knows GI Joe is an elite team of Americans. Changing that is just a silly idea.

[KSavage]

Snake-Eyes being French makes about as much sense as Cobra Commander being a former doctor, but that being said, I still have a problem, and not just with the nationality of Snake-Eyes.

First I have a problem not only with the nationality of Snake-Eyes but with the whole change to the story. The original had a grown American man, losing everything tragically, and feeling dead inside. He toys with the idea of going over to the dark side, but finds redemption and purpose after all the tragedy he's been through in, of all places, a ninja clan. Then a tragic misunderstanding results in years of turmoil and struggle. That story has weight, depth, complexity, and originality.

The movie takes all that and turns it into a story of an orphan boy taken in and raised by ninjas. The movie version is easier told in 5 minutes, but lacks everything that the original had going for it!

Secondly, I have a problem not only with the nationality of Snake-Eyes, but of the whole team. GI Joe was a team comprised of various genders, ethnicities, languages, and socio-economic status, and backgrounds, all united by a national pride and a national identity. That bonded the team. They all fought on the same side.

The movie turns that into a group of international hot-shots united because they're good at what they do. But they took away that unifying force of patriotism. I'm not just talking about "Go America", but about the bond that unifies countrymen in any country. GI Joe was about a group of Americans. Sure GI Joe has always been about a group of military hot-shots, but they were unified by the national pride and identity of GI Joe. The movie just puts a bunch of hot-shots together, and we root for them because they're cool people. Making them mutli-national upsets me not because I'm uber-patriotic (I'm a patriot, but that's very much besides the point in my argument here), but because it changes the dynamic of the team itself.

Not to mention, the term "GI Joe" is inherently American, and an international force would be pissed to have to be called "GI Joe". It makes as much sense as calling them "SAS - Superior All-nation Strikeforce" or something similarly stupid. Everyone knows SAS is a team of elite British operatives. Everyone knows GI Joe is an elite team of Americans. Changing that is just a silly idea.

awesome, man. great post.

nothing else needed to say.

they changed the movie for SOME reason. it isn't necessarily going to guarantee a big box office overseas. the movie will still have an american feel to it so if people are turned off by that to begin with, they won't give this movie a chance.

they could have stuck closer to the original...and that doens't make you or me 'elitist fans.' anyone who says the contrary has a lack of confidence in their own beliefs.

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

See, I understand changing the team into an international force. But What I don't understand is why they couldn't bring in characters THAT are ALREADY international, like Big Ben and Vorona. Or Action Man. Heck, create new characters. But there is no reason as far as I'm concerned that they need to change the CORE CHARACTER'S nationalities.

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

And yes, I've made that argument before.

[KSavage]

they did it because they didn't see it as a problem. they don't understand the story, and THAT is the problem.

can it work this way? yeah, maybe.

would the old stuff have worked? yeah, probably. would have gotten the SAME new audience, AND the old guys.

and we wouldn't have had lines like this one coming...

"Zee Young Masssteer eez ded, and now, i can spzeeek Agaaain."

ok, maybe snake eyes doesn't say that in the movie, i hope not anyway.

[03Mach1]

And yes, I've made that argument before.

Wait a tick...I thought you were 'out'? 200 posts later and you're still trying to defend your reasons for not likeing a movie that doesn't even exist yet? Interesting.

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

LOL, I meant "Out" as in not going to see the movie, though that is a lie itself, lol. I did it more for dramatic effect, though there is/was no need for it.

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

I am willing to be open minded about a great many things.

One issue that I am NOT open to, is Snake Eyes speaking or being anything but American.

I also think Tommy should be Japanese and that the Legendary origin of SE/SS/CC be kept intact as that is a movie unto itself.

The Pit being in another country...changes to supporting characters..that I can live with.

Zartan should be a scary, calm, collected maniac not some bumbling psychopath.

I still maintain hope for this movie...I will hold out till the bitter end.

Maintain hope, my friend! As we all should. Regardless of how it turns out, we're getting a GI Joe movie, and I for one am happy with that fact in and of itself!

[KSavage]

glad you're optimistic.

my hope is that many of these changes we've heard are false rumors.

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

I'm hoping the script is a fake leak, honestly.

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

Your welcome, and no problem. :D

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

Great... 3 more people have found this script from DIFFERENT sources than I, either they're pumping out more fake scripts or this is the real thing. I'm still hoping theres either been some changes or its a fake script.

[SportingViper]

Great... 3 more people have found this script from DIFFERENT sources than I, either they're pumping out more fake scripts or this is the real thing. I'm still hoping theres either been some changes or its a fake script.

I hope that alot of the things we heard about the movie are fake.

[SportingViper]

All this anti or pro American debate going on when people talk about the GI.Joe movie. No one ever mentions the fact that GI.Joes are all made in China. So we spend our money at Wal-Mart for a product made in China. Sounds pretty "American" to me


The money goes to Hasbro, an American company the last time I heard.

[gunslingercbr]

The money goes to Hasbro, an American company the last time I heard.

which in turn pays the Chinese manufacturers and probably other multi-national shipping companies, so your attempt to try and identify it as solely an American endeavor is dishonest.

[SportingViper]

which in turn pays the Chinese manufacturers and probably other multi-national shipping companies, so your attempt to try and identify it as solely an American endeavor is dishonest.

Did I say it was solely American...but Hasbro is the one that makes the most profit with it.Are you going to say otherwise?

[gunslingercbr]

Did I say it was solely American...but Hasbro is the one that makes the most profit with it.Are you going to say otherwise?
no one said otherwise, but you said the money, not most of the money, inherently attempting to dismiss the fact that G.I. Joes are produced and profited by other countries and simply promote the American involvement, which is dishonest.

[SportingViper]

no one said otherwise, but you said the money, not most of the money, inherently attempting to dismiss the fact that G.I. Joes are produced and profited by other countries and simply promote the American involvement, which is dishonest.

Ok fine, G.i.joe is now Chinese,Whatever country the boat(that brings them over) is registered to and American.

The Captain America comic from Marvel is also not american because it's printed in Canada.

[SportingViper]

And where does the money go from Walmart? To the Chinese or to Hasbro?

[gunslingercbr]

And where does the money go from Walmart? To the Chinese or to Hasbro?

to Hasbro, who pays China. do you seriously think the pay chain ends at Hasbro and the money for G.I. Joe goes nowhere from them? I love how you are trying to muddle the scenario with sensationalism to attempt to deflect the truth. yes, the Joe brand is as American as apple pie, but you can't honestly eliminate the international participation in the creation of the actual figures you have -- you know, the actual product that fuels interest in the brand.

[SportingViper]

oh and don't forget it was the Chinese that came up with all the design and engineering for the figures and vehicles...It was a chinese man at a chinese comic company that came up with all the personalities for the characters.

I wish I could blame the chinese for making Snake-Eyes french in the movie(if the rumors are true) but I can't .

[SportingViper]

to Hasbro, who pays China. do you seriously think the pay chain ends at Hasbro and the money for G.I. Joe goes nowhere from them? I love how you are trying to muddle the scenario with sensationalism to attempt to deflect the truth. yes, the Joe brand is as American as apple pie, but you can't honestly eliminate the international participation in the creation of the actual figures you have -- you know, the actual product that fuels interest in the brand.

Oh I'm sorry I've never noticed the made in Hong Kong,Macau, or China stamps on the figures.

I'm sure Hasbro has to pay Fed Ex or UPS for shipping stuff,so I guess they are part of the G.I.Joe creation.

[gunslingercbr]

Oh I'm sorry I've never noticed the made in Hong Kong,Macau, or China stamps on the figures.

I'm sure Hasbro has to pay Fed Ex or UPS for shipping stuff,so I guess they are part of the G.I.Joe creation.

the more extreme you attempt to make your points, the weaker your argument gets. that's logic 101. you still haven't addressed the fact that the production of the figures themselves, what you actually buy, is done in China, thus you can't eliminate them from the equation. even the packaging indicates that it was made in china -- it isn't an irrelevant factor for the product. doing so is dishonest.

[SportingViper]

the more extreme you attempt to make your points, the weaker your argument gets. that's logic 101. you still haven't addressed the fact that the production of the figures themselves, what you actually buy, is done in China, thus you can't eliminate them from the equation. even the packaging indicates that it was made in china -- it isn't an irrelevant factor for the product. doing so is dishonest.

No Sh!t..the post by Delta made it seem like just because they are made in china they're not American(or if you're american you can't support them).They are american made by an american company..just like BMW is German even though they build cars here in America.Was this last example too extreme for you?

[Shogi]

So, what does where toys are made have to do one bit with a movie that's currently filming?




Keep it civil and on topic

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

Personally, I think having GI Joe ba an international team is a good idea. Not only does it make more sense (how many countries are going to allow an American team, or for that matter, a foreign team, on their soil?), and it will help the movie in the international market, which will in turn help Hasbro make more merchandise for the film (which is a plus, even with any animosity towards the source, ie, the movie), as we will get more toys, toothbrushes, lunchboxes, statues, coloring books, collectibles, magazines, novels, friggin shampoo. This in turn will help the regular Joe toy line, if not while the movie is filming, which, given the amount of profit Hasbro makes off the single figure (which one would derive is larger than Transformers and Star Wars, due to materials used and licensing in my opinion), I'm sure will continue, but if not, than down the road.

Honestly, in my belief that this will help the Joe universe as a whole, due to interest being created for the line, new fans and the opportunity for more merchandise, I want the movie to succeed. I really do. If the team being international helps, than by God, go for it. All the best Hasbro.

Now, CHANGING the nationalites of existing characters is an "insult" (not technically, but figuratively) to the people who grew up with those characters. In a way, the company is ("figuatively")saying "Your opinions are not good enough, we care more about appeasing other countries than you."

Now, by no means does Hasbro not want us to be happy. But I, on a personal level that is admittedly bias, wishes that they had kept the nationalites of main characters (Heavy Duty, Cover Girl and Breaker I could pretty much care less about), but characters such as Baroness, Hawk, Scarlet, Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow have their nationalites as part of their FRIGGIN origins (not that the others don't), and these are the people who we, as GI Joe fans, predominitely care about the most.

With Snake Eyes being French, it's like the X-Men poster boy Wolverine getting his powers from a radioactive toaster. With the American girl next door Scarlett being an Australian genius who's never been kissed, it is comparable to Catwoman being played by Ugly Betty. Can you imagine Dracula without his accent? Of course you can't. Now try the Baroness.

Perhaps these examples are slightly off, but this is how I feel.

International team = Understandable, realistic and no problem.
International main character Joes = An ill-advised move that will harbor ill-feelings amongst longtime fans. And when the hype settles, it will be us who remain.

[gunslingercbr]

International main character Joes = An ill-advised move that will harbor ill-feelings amongst longtime fans. And when the hype settles, it will be us who remain.
the likelihood that American actors were cast to be international characters is pretty minimal. yes, they were identified as such in the script, but that script, even though it was the final draft, just read like a ideas when it came to the nationality of the characters to express the international make-up of the team, that when you consider the casting doesn't seem to have been followed. in the end, the whining is probably going to be much ado about nothing, and a reasonable examination of the factors would reveal that. but then, we love to whine and if we approached it reasonably what would we have to whine about?

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

I'm not trying to "whine" as much as I am upset that things MAY be so.

As far as only hiring international actors to play other nationalities...

Dude, Batman Begins had all American characters (save Ras Al Ghul and the double), and Scarecrow, Alfred and FRIGGIN Bruce Wayne were played by people from England and Welsh. So, the whole "American actors = American characters, I don't buy. Wolverine was played by an Aussie, who also played an American magician. Magneto (a straight, Jewish mutant from Germany) was played by an English homosexual. Seriously, man, they're actors.

THEY ACT.

They can do accents. I want your reasoning to be true, but I don't buy it. Sorry.

[gunslingercbr]

I'm not trying to "whine" as much as I am upset that things MAY be so.
I wasn't referring to your post.


Dude, Batman Begins had all American characters (save Ras Al Ghul and the double), and Scarecrow, Alfred and FRIGGIN Bruce Wayne were played by people from England and Welsh. So, the whole "American actors = American characters, I don't buy. Wolverine was played by an Aussie, who also played an American magician. Magneto (a straight, Jewish mutant from Germany) was played by an English homosexual. Seriously, man, they're actors.

THEY ACT.

They can do accents. I want your reasoning to be true, but I don't buy it. Sorry.
G.I. Joe is far more 2 dimensional than those movies with far less character depth. comparing those movies with G.I. Joe simply because they are all of the same "comic/toy" genre is a stretch. the likelihood any actor was cast to actually act in any dramatic sense isn't great, even if you ignore the fact that the dialogue is so cheap and the characters so bland. there just isn't anything for the actors to do except throw out contrived and cliche dialogue in a big cartoonish manner -- hardly an exercise in acting. the script reveals what is expected of the actors. American actors just aren't known for their abilities with accents, unlike English actors. I'm sure they hired Dennis Quaid, with, what, 0 movies in which he's done a British accent, to actually be a Brittish general. it just doesn't jive. the idea that because they act for a living that they are masters of dialect is flawed.

[delta]

G.I. Joe is far more 2 dimensional than those movies with far less character depth. comparing those movies with G.I. Joe simply because they are all of the same "comic/toy" genre is a stretch. the likelihood any actor was cast to actually act in any dramatic sense isn't great, even if you ignore the fact that the dialogue is so cheap and the characters so bland. there just isn't anything for the actors to do except throw out contrived and cliche dialogue in a big cartoonish manner -- hardly an exercise in acting. the script reveals what is expected of the actors. American actors just aren't known for their abilities with accents, unlike English actors. I'm sure they hired Dennis Quaid, with, what, 0 movies in which he's done a British accent, to actually be a Brittish general. it just doesn't jive. the idea that because they act for a living that they are masters of dialect is flawed.
Wish it weren't true, but the mans right.

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

I wasn't referring to your post.


G.I. Joe is far more 2 dimensional than those movies with far less character depth. comparing those movies with G.I. Joe simply because they are all of the same "comic/toy" genre is a stretch. the likelihood any actor was cast to actually act in any dramatic sense isn't great, even if you ignore the fact that the dialogue is so cheap and the characters so bland. there just isn't anything for the actors to do except throw out contrived and cliche dialogue in a big cartoonish manner -- hardly an exercise in acting.

Sorry, I thought you were referring to mine.

I understand that GI Joe is an action cliche in and of itself. Ninjas? Disguises? Super weapons? Very cliche. But when you take something that is hokey and simple, it can become so much more. They took a comic book and made it express themes of loss, the importance of controling anger and fear, and how far a man will go to fight the injustices he has witnessed himself in Batman. 300 was a GLORIFIED action romp that had beautiful imagery and told of the sacrifce REAL SOLDIERS make in war, and how the few can stop the many, or inspire the thousands. Road to Perdition and a History of Violence were great, intelligent dramas.

Is GI Joe "average" source material? As you said, and I shall agree. GI Joe is a bit... 2 dimensional, but it has the opportunity to be more. And, despite the actors chosen could easily get dialouge coaches and have accents themselves. This isn't to say your reasoning doesn't have merit, but I believe your argument, just like mine, are unfortunately unprovable at this point. But you do raise points that deserve consideration.

I eagerly anticipate the trailer, as many of our questions will be answered, one way or the other.

[delta]

GI Joe is a bit... 2 dimensional, but it has the opportunity to be more.
I wish.
It seems like every time they try to present GI.Joe in a more adult light, the fans shoot it down. Reloaded got the can. People hated the WWII cross over with the Transformers. Wish GI.Joe were allowed to grow, and be more graphic

[SportingViper]

I pray to god everyday that my "bitching and whining" is for nothing.But until someone from the film comes out and debunks this ridiculous idea of changing the nationalities of the characters, especially that of Snake-Eyes,Scarlett,Hawk,Baroness and Stormy then I'm bitching until the cows come home.

[gunslingercbr]

Sorry, I thought you were referring to mine.

I understand that GI Joe is an action cliche in and of itself. Ninjas? Disguises? Super weapons? Very cliche. But when you take something that is hokey and simple, it can become so much more. They took a comic book and made it express themes of loss, the importance of controling anger and fear, and how far a man will go to fight the injustices he has witnessed himself in Batman. 300 was a GLORIFIED action romp that had beautiful imagery and told of the sacrifce REAL SOLDIERS make in war, and how the few can stop the many, or inspire the thousands. Road to Perdition and a History of Violence were great, intelligent dramas.

Is GI Joe "average" source material? As you said, and I shall agree. GI Joe is a bit... 2 dimensional, but it has the opportunity to be more. And, despite the actors chosen could easily get dialouge coaches and have accents themselves. This isn't to say your reasoning doesn't have merit, but I believe your argument, just like mine, are unfortunately unprovable at this point. But you do raise points that deserve consideration.

I eagerly anticipate the trailer, as many of our questions will be answered, one way or the other.
I just mean this G.I. Joe movie, not G.I. Joe in general. I agree whole-heartedly, G.I. Joe has elements that can be very dramatic, they just won't be in the 2009 movie.

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

I wish.
It seems like every time they try to present GI.Joe in a more adult light, the fans shoot it down. Reloaded got the can. People hated the WWII cross over with the Transformers. Wish GI.Joe were allowed to grow, and be more graphic

I loved both, and everyone I've talked to loves the WWII TF story. Reloaded got the can cuz Dixon killed it. It was so good, then it started to stink. A lot of people liked the first half of the series.

I pray to god everyday that my "bitching and whining" is for nothing.But until someone from the film comes out and debunks this ridiculous idea of changing the nationalities of the characters, especially that of Snake-Eyes,Scarlett,Hawk,Baroness and Stormy then I'm bitching until the cows come home.


Sporting Viper... God Bless you.

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

I just mean this G.I. Joe movie, not G.I. Joe in general. I agree whole-heartedly, G.I. Joe has elements that can be very dramatic, they just won't be in the 2009 movie.

And that, dear Gun, makes me want to cry. Hollywood was doing so well (for the most part). Hell, TF made so many good points about humanity during OP's Roll Out speech alone.

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

Get out much?


Dude, be civil.

[delta]

I loved both, and everyone I've talked to loves the WWII TF story. Reloaded got the can cuz Dixon killed it. It was so good, then it started to stink. A lot of people liked the first half of the series.

Wish they would do more stuff like that.

I'd like to see the movie be a blood, and Guts fest like Platoon, Full Metal Jacket, Saving Private Ryan. I know why that would never be,but we all grew up, why can't GI.Joe?

[delta]

G.I. Joe has elements that can be very dramatic, they just won't be in the 2009 movie.
I can dream damn it!

[SportingViper]

I loved both, and everyone I've talked to loves the WWII TF story. Reloaded got the can cuz Dixon killed it. It was so good, then it started to stink. A lot of people liked the first half of the series.




Sporting Viper... God Bless you.

Thanks, and i hope your house isn't in the flood zone as i see that you're from Iowa.

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

Thanks, and i hope your house isn't in the flood zone as i see that you're from Iowa.


Well, I started the thread in General Dis. about "My City Is Gone...", and it is. Me and my immediate family are fine, but friends, extended family and others are not so lucky.

Thanks though.

And no kidding Delta. I think a live action, adult GI Joe TV series would blow things like Alias and 24 out of the water.

[SportingViper]

Well, I started the thread in General Dis. about "My City Is Gone...", and it is. Me and my immediate family are fine, but friends, extended family and others are not so lucky.

Thanks though.

And no kidding Delta. I think a live action, adult GI Joe TV series would blow things like Alias and 24 out of the water.

Well I hope they recover quickly out there.

[delta]

TF made so many good points about humanity during OP's Roll Out speech alone.
Compairing the GI.Joe movie to the transformers movie makes me even more sceptical.
IMO Transformers was horrible. There have been two Transformers movies, and neither stared Optimus Prime. That was the biggest mistake of the first Transformers, It's the Biggest mistake of the new one.
It's like if King Arthur just made a cameo in the Knights of the round table movie.

[delta]

And no kidding Delta. I think a live action, adult GI Joe TV series would blow things like Alias and 24 out of the water.
If stargate had a chance why not! agreed that would be rad

[Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja]

Guess someone over at IGN says they were an extra in the Paris scene and what they said matches up (for the most part) with the script.

[LuckytheWonderLlama]

I think a live action, adult GI Joe TV series would blow things like Alias and 24 out of the water.

If you ever get a chance, check out The Unit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_unit_(tv_series)) on DVD or CBS when it comes back for its forth season in the Fall. To me, this is what a Live Action GIJoe Series should be!

Of course it is based on the actual Delta Force... which is what GIJoe ARAH started out as oh so long ago.