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View Full Version : What popular thing of Joe canon do you not like?


Troynos
11-19-2009, 11:42 AM
Like the title asks, what part of Joe that is popular do you personally not like?

And don't just say "RoC". Explain, detail, etc..

For me it's the Dreadnoks.

Always hated 'em. I hated the designs. They just looked goofy, even back then and they are so outdated now.

I like the Wal-Mart 2-pack Monkeywrench, he doesn't look dated now like his vintage look.

But I just hated the portrayal of the Dreadnoks.

They were too cheesy and cornballish in the cartoon and comic.

The idea had merit, Cobra utilizing a biker gang, but the execution was horrible.

And why did Zartan get pegged to lead them? That made no sense. Zartan, as a master of disguise, should have been operating solo, not attached to a biker gang.

DDP improved 'em a little when he made them larger and had chapters all over the place. That made the idea of Cobra employing them have more merit. A mobile insurgency group that could just pack up and leave at a moments notice.

A biker gang is like modern day pirates, roaming the land pillaging as they go. And they'd make good smugglers and couriers.

But the designs were just horrible.

Were they going for biker, mad max, something in between?

Zandar and Zarana.. don't even get me started. Zandar was a horrible figure. And goes back to Zartan being the leader. Just made no sense to me, ever.

So come on 'Tankers, what is considered a popular part of the ol' Joe canon that you just don't like?


I wonder who will be the first to just respond "RoC".

GhostGL
11-19-2009, 11:46 AM
Also Zandar and Zarana. Was better when it was just Zartan, he was one of a kind.

John Quest
11-19-2009, 11:48 AM
Cobra-La for reasons that are obvious and pretty much self-explainatory. That storyline was the killer of my interest for a great many years.

Irid70
11-19-2009, 11:49 AM
Popular thing?

Does the cartoon count?

Watched it as a kid, I suppose, but sweet fancy Moses do I loathe it now. Unwatchable tripe, poorly written, badly acted, and terribly animated, with hollow stories and shallow characters, villains that a Boy Scout Troop could handle, and lame, boring heroes.

Jmacq1
11-19-2009, 11:51 AM
RoC.

(I keed, I keed).

While I second the Dreadnoks never having done much for me (though the JvC/VvV redesigns were vast improvements for most of the Dreadnok characters they made), I'll add my other least-favorite thing about the Joe Mythos to the list:

Sgt. Slaughter. A good portion of this comes from me being more of a comic fan than a toon fan (though I liked both well enough), but even as a kid Slaughter annoyed me in the 'toon. Not only did he steal the spotlight from characters that I liked better, he also was portrayed as the superhuman unstoppable uber-Joe to a point that (to me) was completely ridiculous.

Even my 10-11 year old mind, upon watching G.I. Joe: The Movie for the first time, could not accept this cheeseball character beating Nemesis Enforcer (who earlier in the film had flipped over a HAVOC pretty effortlessly) in hand-to-hand combat. Nothing to do with particularly liking Nemesis Enforcer (though he and Pythona were far and away the most "acceptable" aspects of Cobra-La), just way too much for my suspension of disbelief even at that young age...and thus, my distaste for Sgt. Slaughter was born.

klinton
11-19-2009, 11:53 AM
For me it's the Dreadnoks.


Agreed, 100%!!

Cobra was always so elaborate and full of pageantry...and yet allied with gutter trash? It always annoyed me, even as a kid.

I thought Zartan was vastly improved in RoC (and, to a degree, Resolute), operating as a solo mercenary type character.

Breakerfan
11-19-2009, 11:59 AM
I've always been bothered by Duke. He was a little too mom and apple pie for me.

I thought he was ok in the marvel comics where he wasn't so much at the forefront , but in the cartoon he kinda annoyed me.

I thought he was a jerk in the DD comics run though I felt the character fit in well there (former black ops guy, not sure if you can trust him).

I have not seen the movie yet but I have doubts he will do anything to improve his standing with me.

More so than the character himself, I think I'm annoyed how (probably because of the cartoon) so many people mistake Duke for the leader of G.I. JOE and have no idea who Hawk is.

Tanksmasher
11-19-2009, 12:03 PM
I can't say I hated the dreadnoks because I loved the Thunder Machine, which seemed inspired by Road Warrior--one of my favorite movies--but the comics protrayed them as silly misfits who drank grape soda and ate donuts. This dampened their appeal severely. I wish the comic would have made them appear tougher.


It never occurred to me then that Zartan was a poor choice for a leader but it does seem odd now.

Now I'm probably the only person who loved Zandar. I don't know why, but I did. I always wished he got more time in the comics, but he never did and I couldn't understand why. I just loved the red hair and face camo and arrow gun (it's absurd, sure, but I just loved him as a kid).

I don't know if Battle Force 2000 was popular among other kids, but I loathed it. Junk, crappy sci-fi vehicles that formed a stupid-looking base and most of the figures looked horrendous except for maybe Blaster and Dodger. I knew even then that it was a cheap marketing ploy: buy all the stupid vehicle to form the "must-have" HQ. Pass!

Phweep
11-19-2009, 12:18 PM
I am sure that others have thought of this too, but I cannot stand Serpentor. Cobra Commander is in charge. His resident Mad Scientist conjurs up a super warrior who becomes a super leader. All the Cobra Legions follow mindlessly behind this new guy who puts on a Gold Snake Armor and bosses people around. And the stupid amount of "This I command!" statements that riddle the cartoon REALLY bug me. Hate Serpentor. He is clown shoes to me.

Gunzlingr
11-19-2009, 12:23 PM
the dopey vintage characters that were not only dopey, but plain ass stupid, ie: Raptor, Dreadnoks, Croc Master, Crystal Ball, Sneak Peak, etc. They were super specialized, and in most cases plain retarded. The only exception on this list is Zartan, and I am not a fan of that character, but he does have his place.

gba88
11-19-2009, 12:25 PM
Sgt. slaughter followed by any of the non-3.75" lines.

Barefoot Jedi
11-19-2009, 12:26 PM
Storm Shadow as a Joe.

I hated that in the comics.

USAgent
11-19-2009, 12:31 PM
I said it before. dreadnoks. Can't stand their execution. Even as a kid i know a hard-core biker gang wasn't running around drinking grape soda. If we ever see a Resolute 2 I wouldn't mind getting a more 'sons of anarchy' like group of 'noks...

crock master
11-19-2009, 12:33 PM
tiger force and python patrole pissed me off because i knew it was cheap ass repaints. and the i realized 25 was doing it from the beginning.

Freedom
11-19-2009, 12:39 PM
I actually loved the Dreadnoks. They were portrayed as pretty hardcore at times in the comic. Unfortunately, Hama couldn't have the Dreadnoks drinking beer and snorting coke in a kids comic, so he went with something so completely opposite like grape soda and doughnuts. And I liked Zartan being their leader. I don't know if he was originally intended to lead the Dreadnoks, but I liked the idea of Zartan having his own underlings.

As far as what "popular" thing I don't like, I'd have to go with Serpentor. The organization was Cobra. The leader is Cobra Commander. 'Nuff said!

sharke
11-19-2009, 12:44 PM
Serpentor and Cobra-La

I like the futuristic weapons (Vipers and such) but never dug or got the cloned emporer. It just seemed to Sci-Fi for me plus I never got why Cobra Commander would just let it happen. I read the comic and watched the cartoon reasonings but still never made sense to me as a kid. Cobra-La...well...just way to out there for me. I like the whole US vs a highly advanced terrorist network, not US vs monsters and clones. I really dig those concepts and ideas but just not in GI Joe.

agentmorris
11-19-2009, 12:47 PM
I've never liked Duke very much.

In fact, as a kid I loved seeing him get stabbed in the Movie.

Black Llama
11-19-2009, 12:59 PM
I was never big into the comics so cannon for me was always the cartoons when I was little. I actually used to HATE Flint and Lady J the most though.

I never considered Zartan a Dreadnok in my world. He always hung out with Firefly and Storm Shadow (and Snake eyes who was never really a Joe in my mind). I always imagined those 3 as a covert/black ops team running spy missions and what not.

stride23
11-19-2009, 01:00 PM
ROC because it took away the familiar feeling of G.I.Joe and turned it to something else that does not IMO feel at all like G.I. Joe. The colors of most ROC figures are so bland and boring.The figures are just as boring and while they are made with quality, the design of them in the end leaves alot to be desired.ROC killed it so much for me I actually stopped collecting when I swear I used to think "how am I ever going to stop??".I pass through the Joe section and there is no longer any "overwhelming" gotta have it,gotta find it,hope they have it,hope i find it vibe anymore.Instead I just see a overstocked blob of purplish black grey mass of lameness.Booo ROC.I am somewhat looking forward to POC but who knows when that comes out haha.

storymodeller
11-19-2009, 02:24 PM
Anything supernatural is not in my Joe-verse. Bending the laws of science I can take (and even like) up to a point, but I draw the line at blatant science defying. The most popular of these that I can't stand is the split-second Zartan transformations, clothes included. Instantaneous transformations with clothes work for Superman, time warps work for Star Trek, and strange creatures work for Star Wars. But to me this does not work for my version of GI Joe.

Zefram
11-19-2009, 02:39 PM
I like the Dreadnoks. Anybody who'd bring a chansaw to a gunfight is crazy enough to be legitimately feared.

My choice? Cobra-La.
Don't get me wrong, a pre-human race of beings who use organic technology is an idea made of awesome, even in the Joe verse, but the way they tied CC to it killed it for me, and then having all of Cobra, even Destro, Baroness, and others just go along like it's a good idea. Umm... the whole world is going to be destroyed, including your homelands and family!

Cobra-La should have been a threat so terrible that the Joes and Cobra would have to join forces just for mutual survival! Imagine what it would have looked like to see SE and SS fighting monsters on the same side, or Zartan disguised as a Royal Guard saving Hawk's life?

goldendeedsofman
11-19-2009, 02:50 PM
I'm not gonna say the movie itself, just the band wagons that follow. And that goes for transformers as well. I collected and loved these "pop culture Icons" before they were icons. When the movies came out I was ex-tactic but when all of a sudden you see something you loved personally become mainstream and exploited, it makes you a little bitter, or it does me. Especially when those that say They loved movie, were the ones poking fun at your collection.

Moses
11-19-2009, 03:05 PM
Sgt Slaughter. I prefer completely fictitious Joes, not some wrestler turned into an elite soldier. Did he even have military experience? Same with the Fridge, though I don't recall seeing him in any media.

ROC Duke. He seems to have the charisma of a rock, I can't see him being the team leader for the Joe team. Maybe they will write in Ripcord as TOP, as he is still a Sgt.

I agree Dreadnok execution could have been done a lot better, but it does need to be kid friendly.

Cobra La execution was ridiculous, but to some extent I like the base ideas in an alternate Joe-verse way.

Lump Serpentor in with Cobra La. Cloning from DNA samples is a little too way out there. Then again, so were most of the cartoon plots.

Barefoot Jedi
11-19-2009, 03:05 PM
I like the Dreadnoks. Anybody who'd bring a chansaw to a gunfight is crazy enough to be legitimately feared.

My choice? Cobra-La.
Don't get me wrong, a pre-human race of beings who use organic technology is an idea made of awesome, even in the Joe verse, but the way they tied CC to it killed it for me, and then having all of Cobra, even Destro, Baroness, and others just go along like it's a good idea. Umm... the whole world is going to be destroyed, including your homelands and family!

Cobra-La should have been a threat so terrible that the Joes and Cobra would have to join forces just for mutual survival! Imagine what it would have looked like to see SE and SS fighting monsters on the same side, or Zartan disguised as a Royal Guard saving Hawk's life?

I'm sort of involved in a fanfic writing project (if I ever make myself get off my lazy ass and get to work) that is supposed to be a virtual Sunbow season three, and I am retconning the hell out of the Cobra-La COBRA Commander. Basically the REAL COBRA Commander was captured by Cobra-La and his mind copied and transferred to the Cobra-La scientist (sometime between Season 1 and Season 2). But the Cobra-La scientist Commander's personality merged with CC's memories and he went a little cuckoo. In the meantime, the original CC was discarded by Nemesis Enforcer but escaped and survived, and was aided by Crimson Guard agents and returns in full battle armor in the first episode. We also find out the reason Destro and the others went along with Cobra-La is they'd all been implanted with psychic motivators. So the Commander in Season 2 is the Cobra-La agent and the real Commander returns in his 1987 battle armor which, in my story, is made of a metal from a meteor that is, like adamantium, virtually indestructible yet incredibly light and his armor gives him super-human powers like he can throw a tank, smash through walls, generate a force-field with it, leap tall buildings in a single bound, etc. and he becomes the biggest badass with it, able to beat up Sergeant Slaughter and any Joe.

Troynos
11-19-2009, 03:10 PM
You had me going with it until you turned CC's battle armor into Iron Mans suit. :)

jaxscorpio
11-19-2009, 03:35 PM
Most people love it but I really hate the Terrordrome toy. I always wanted Hasbro to release a cool cobra base/temple complete with a throne room, communications center, jail, arena of sport, etc but the best we ever got was the TD. The Joe's had the original Joe HQ and the Flagg, both of which were very cool, but Cobra really got screwed when it came to bases.

alexan2dros
11-19-2009, 03:40 PM
serpentor.. i dont like him..

arashikage_ninj
11-19-2009, 03:42 PM
Serpentor. Why dose Cobra, a ruthless terroist orginaziation make some clone? Really, what would a bunch of dead leaders do for Cobra?

Also, obivusly (bad spelling).....Cobra-La.

Monkeywrench
11-19-2009, 03:45 PM
Storm Shadow as a Joe.

I hated that in the comics.


agreed

Trigue
11-19-2009, 03:48 PM
well supposely Sgt Slaughter was in the Marine Corps and spent some time as a Drill Instructor. Someone could probably do a search for his DD-214 and see if its true or not.

back on topic, Ninja's. It was okay when it was just Storm Shadow and Snake Eyes. I could belive that but then they had to go way over board with it. It is the one thing about Hama I don't like. Hes far too ninja obsessed at times. Snake Eyes for me was better when he was just a spec ops type commando in an all black uniform...not a ninja. I always hoped they would kill him off in the comics.

That is the popular thing that I don't like, Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow and the rest of the motley crew of ninja's and how they started turning everyone into ninja's torwards the end.

Oh and also that they made Kamura into that boy that wrote Snake Eyes a letter.

Barefoot Jedi
11-19-2009, 03:49 PM
You had me going with it until you turned CC's battle armor into Iron Mans suit. :)

He can't fly with it. I thought that was a little much. :D

Zartanman
11-19-2009, 03:54 PM
I agree about the NOKS I LOVE LOVE Zartan.. but he was always much more of a loner mercenary type in my Joe Verse.

However, honestly I never liked Duke. Especially the cartoon version, where he is most popular. The comic never gave Duke the position that he had in the cartoon.

HAWK is the Joe leader in my Joeverse always has been.

The ROC Duke is OK but I still think he gets way too much face time. There are so many other Joe Characters that are far more interesting.

The only Duke Ive really liked at all was Resolute Duke.

ero
11-19-2009, 03:55 PM
Cobra-La for reasons that are obvious and pretty much self-explainatory. That storyline was the killer of my interest for a great many years.

What he said.

jimbogun
11-19-2009, 03:56 PM
They sank the Flagg!!! While it was cool that they rose it up, I was appalled to find out that the Flagg was sunk.

Sgt Slaughter and Serpentor are low points for reasons already listed.

Cobra Commander is a little too whimpy/whinny to be a Terrorist Leader, like a spoiled rich kid. I think Resolute nailed him though.

facehammer
11-19-2009, 04:02 PM
Boring characters (design wise) that were given larger roles in the toon or comic to help them sell. (props to Hasbro for doing this though, if it was their decision)

Examples: Shipwreck, Chuckles, Bazooka.

As a kid I never liked them because they were pretty boring. But upon joining this board I noticed a lot of love for Shipwreck and Bazooka... An adult viewing of the toon made me realize what they were doing. Nice marketing.

jah2626
11-19-2009, 04:07 PM
I am just going to go ahead and say Ninja Force.

IronMan76
11-19-2009, 04:33 PM
Stuff that I don't like about Joe lore...

...Well I hated all the imaginary creatures for one

1. Fatal Fluffies
2. Phantom Brigade
3. Ancient Guardiens (stone warriors in the pyramid of darkness)
4. Egyptian gods

I also didn't care for the psychic episode of GI JOE.

I didn't like Destro's family cult meeting much either... I think Destro is more a man of science!

I think sometimes Snake Eyes is too invincable. Its almost like why have a GI JOE TEAM, if Snake Eyes can take down Cobra by himself?

I agree with your point about Zartan leading the Dreadknocks. But I don't mind it as much as you do. I think the Dread knocks are a great way of illustrating how Cobra employs other organizations to do their dirty work. That way they insulate themselves from responsibility.

Also the Dreadknocks are exactly the type of recruit Cobra would be looking for.

1. They're dissolusioned with normal society
2. They're easily manipulated
3. They're without any moral inhibitions
4. They're expendable
5. Bikers are frequently ex-military with an axe to grind. Usualy diss0honorably disscharged, or section 8.

TANKERS are the best Joe Fans!

Loose Cannon
11-19-2009, 05:01 PM
Ninja Force and Star Brigade and the more than anything is the Color Yellow on any uniform followed by any of the Neon Colors.

brasseagle6
11-19-2009, 05:04 PM
toy wise it would be the new walmart exclusive tunnel rat. he looks to funny

Ultra Magnus 71
11-19-2009, 06:42 PM
Anything to do with the cartoon, it was just bad in my book. And any of the toys past 1989.

Troynos
11-19-2009, 06:45 PM
Like I said, the Dreadnoks idea has merit.

The execution was horrible.

I think they could really make it work in IDW since that seems to have a more adult tone then the Marvel comic.

txbart
11-19-2009, 06:58 PM
Destro. He is a great character with great design asthetic, But why on earth is it necessary for the arms supplier to be involved in every aspect of the Commander's plots.

If he was portrayed as intentionaly sabotaging CC's plans in order to generate more arms sales to CC, then great. But he was always portrayed to be vested in the favoreable outcome of CC's plans, such to the extent he was frustrated with CC's ineptitude.

chief_1
11-19-2009, 07:05 PM
Tiger Force. The figures themselves looked ok, but i hated that they were using Cobra vehicles.

Colonel Bludd
11-19-2009, 07:14 PM
Roadblocks Rhyming. It just created the impression that all black people rap and rhyme all day. Really hated that

Falcon being dukes brother. and worst, he out ranked duke.

Storm Shadow being a good guy!

ChaplainAsst
11-19-2009, 07:26 PM
Ninja Force. Honestly, once they added to the ninja mythos outside of SE vs. SS and started adding the Blind Master, Firefly (the Faceless Master), Jinx, etc., the simplicity of the story lost something. Before, it was brothers broken by circumstances. After, it was a soap opera - no one ever dies, they just get written out of the script.

Bravo Sierra
11-19-2009, 07:30 PM
Dic

Shin-Gouki
11-19-2009, 07:36 PM
ROC because it took away the familiar feeling of G.I.Joe and turned it to something else that does not IMO feel at all like G.I. Joe. The colors of most ROC figures are so bland and boring.The figures are just as boring and while they are made with quality, the design of them in the end leaves alot to be desired.ROC killed it so much for me I actually stopped collecting when I swear I used to think "how am I ever going to stop??".I pass through the Joe section and there is no longer any "overwhelming" gotta have it,gotta find it,hope they have it,hope i find it vibe anymore.Instead I just see a overstocked blob of purplish black grey mass of lameness.Booo ROC.I am somewhat looking forward to POC but who knows when that comes out haha.

This, and the Polygonal Virtua Fighter 1 looking Sigma Six.

BadWolf
11-19-2009, 07:41 PM
Among alot of what was already said I never could stand Battle Force 2000 it killed Joe for me for a long time!

Zartanman
11-19-2009, 07:46 PM
Its funny to me to see how many people really seem to hate anything in the cartoon or otherwise that is remotely related to anything, metaphysical, sci fi, or fantasy when it was those very elements which kept me enthralled in GI Joe when I was a kid.

My favorite episodes of the cartoon were the ones with Gods, Ghosts and other spooky phenomena.

chief_1
11-19-2009, 07:49 PM
Its funny to me to see how many people really seem to hate anything in the cartoon or otherwise that is remotely related to anything, metaphysical, sci fi, or fantasy when it was those very elements which kept me enthralled in GI Joe when I was a kid.

My favorite episodes of the cartoon were the ones with Gods, Ghosts and other spooky phenomena.

Yeah, i never minded suspending reality for the cartoon series. Well, except for Fatal Fluffies, i just couldn't buy that one...

Zartanman
11-19-2009, 07:52 PM
Yeah, i never minded suspending reality for the cartoon series. Well, except for Fatal Fluffies, i just couldn't buy that one...

I'll give you that one.

But for instance, my all time Favorite Three Episodes... Worlds Without End... Excalibur... and the one with the Egyptian gods..

Runners up are The Ghost Brigade.. Castle Destro...

There were parts of Cobra La I liked but again I think the execution sucked horribly. I never liked it when they took power away from Cobra Commander though.

stormshadow9
11-19-2009, 07:58 PM
not sure how popular he is but i never liked heavy duty,why have him when you got road block? i dont know maybe i missed something.

ARBCOToys
11-19-2009, 08:25 PM
Sgt Slaughter. Never liked him as a wrestler. Never liked him as part of the Joes.

I also hated the amount of ninjas. Early on it was cool to have Storm Shadow but then everyone was revealed to be a ninja. Wasn't Doc a ninja for a bit?

snakeeyes22
11-19-2009, 08:35 PM
I hatr convoluted or retconned stories, especially with forced connections or relationships.

Snake Eyes n Cobra Commander hung out one time? They both lost families in thr same crash?

Who thr hell killed the Hard Master thid time?

manicmotive
11-19-2009, 08:35 PM
I can say with a certain enthusiastic certainty, that I don't mind anything Joe related. It's not that there aren't bits and pieces that are mind blowingly awkward or downright retarded (mentally challenged?), but these are things you just have to accept with an ever-evolving franchise such as G.I. Joe. Before the 25th line hit, I hadn't touched a Joe toy since I was a kid, then they came back as I remembered, and all that nostalgia just took me in. Enough so, that even the ROC toys have found a place on my shelves. So it's kind of a "take the good with the bad" feeling for me.

captain99
11-19-2009, 08:36 PM
.

More so than the character himself, I think I'm annoyed how (probably because of the cartoon) so many people mistake Duke for the leader of G.I. JOE and have no idea who Hawk is.[/QUOTE]

My thoughts EXACTLY!!

sgcaper
11-19-2009, 08:40 PM
I may be alone in this but for me it's Snake Eyes. Don't get me wrong I liked him as a kid, for about a week, until I realized that a sword can not stop a bullet and that no one is quiet all the time, is indestructible, and can beat everyone, and everything. Add to those reasons the fact that he has 124,598,894 different variations and it's just too much.

I also wasn't into Cobra La, I liked the movie as a kid, but to incorporate snake monsters and bug monsters into my Joe world which was pure Army (I called everything Army as a kid) just didn't work for me, plus the figures sucked, I mean Golobulus was like a foot long and his body was worthless, yeah they put those "Bendy holes" in the body but it was worthless.

I will say I loved the 'Noks! My parents are hardcore bikers, my dad was in a Motorcycle Club, my mom's second husband was as well, I grew up around King Cobras, Diablos, Hell Angels, etc. So the 'Noks were right up my alley (until Zanzibar).

sandrock74
11-19-2009, 08:53 PM
I never liked how Scarlett wasn't my girlfriend. (Does that count?)

Jonathan
11-19-2009, 08:56 PM
I've always thought that Candy and the Soft Masters' deaths are pretty lame.

Does anyone know why Hama killed 'em off? I've always wondered if he just disliked and/or didn't know what to do with the characters (Candy in particular), or if he was ordered to off 'em to make room for more characters that had toys, or if he just wanted some sudden brutal deaths to keep readers on their toes.

Jay West
11-19-2009, 08:57 PM
I love the 'Noks, but agree a bit with the initial post - you gotta rework them a bit. I use them as an organized crime organization with the main 'Noks being hardcre mercs who happened to look a lot like bikers. Would love ROC 2 to just out and out portray them as mrecs, but to retain some of their characteristics.

Back on track. I usually rework what I don't like.
I hated and reworked:

Serpentor - a genetically created supersoldier. Proabably something that could almost be made now. Conditioned like the Pretender (old TV show) to be the ultimate soldier.

Cobra La - Just a secret society of schemers that have manipulated many world events. Think Cobra crossed with the Illuminati.

I hated and have no use for:

The fantasy sci fi elements of the cartoon:

Fatal fluffies or whatever they were

The alternate reality episodes.

My number one hated thing of the mythology that everyone should hate: Transformers! Get them out of my Joe comics!!! If you like them mixed you are weird...I'm kidding it's ok if people like it. I just HATE it. :)

spacemonkey
11-19-2009, 09:07 PM
ROC because it took away the familiar feeling of G.I.Joe and turned it to something else that does not IMO feel at all like G.I. Joe. The colors of most ROC figures are so bland and boring.The figures are just as boring and while they are made with quality, the design of them in the end leaves alot to be desired.ROC killed it so much for me I actually stopped collecting when I swear I used to think "how am I ever going to stop??".I pass through the Joe section and there is no longer any "overwhelming" gotta have it,gotta find it,hope they have it,hope i find it vibe anymore.Instead I just see a overstocked blob of purplish black grey mass of lameness.Booo ROC.I am somewhat looking forward to POC but who knows when that comes out haha.


Yup. X 2

sharky
11-19-2009, 09:20 PM
For some reason I can never get past Gung Ho's outfit. He just gives off that gay biker vibe. I laughed at the Fensler Film PSA where they gave him a super flaming persona.

Zefram
11-19-2009, 09:21 PM
ROC because it took away the familiar feeling of G.I.Joe and turned it to something else that does not IMO feel at all like G.I. Joe. The colors of most ROC figures are so bland and boring.The figures are just as boring and while they are made with quality, the design of them in the end leaves alot to be desired.ROC killed it so much for me I actually stopped collecting when I swear I used to think "how am I ever going to stop??".I pass through the Joe section and there is no longer any "overwhelming" gotta have it,gotta find it,hope they have it,hope i find it vibe anymore.Instead I just see a overstocked blob of purplish black grey mass of lameness.Booo ROC.

Christ almighty, if they start making brightly colored figs, fans bitch that we're going back to the neon-colored funskool days, and if they go for more realistic black, greys, greens and browns, they're all bland and boring. WTF?!

And then no matter what they do we complain that they don't listen to us!!!
http://newsimg.ngfiles.com/60000/60474_Tactical_facepalm.jpg

hawkeyes444
11-19-2009, 09:31 PM
Popular thing?

Does the cartoon count?

Watched it as a kid, I suppose, but sweet fancy Moses do I loathe it now. Unwatchable tripe, poorly written, badly acted, and terribly animated, with hollow stories and shallow characters, villains that a Boy Scout Troop could handle, and lame, boring heroes.

This. I've watched the DVD's from the 25th packs and they are painful to watch. Thankfully, my collecting got me in to the classic comics and that made things better. I guess being a kid makes a world of difference when it comes to filtering out crap.

ekko
11-19-2009, 09:42 PM
My number one hated thing of the mythology that everyone should hate: Transformers! Get them out of my Joe comics!!! If you like them mixed you are weird...I'm kidding it's ok if people like it. I just HATE it. :)

I have to agree with this, I thought I was the only one that felt this way. It seems that a LOT of Joe fans love the crossover between the two but I cannot stand it. I would rather see Battleforce or Ecoforce come back before another crossover.
Dont get me wrong, I love the Transformers, but they better keep their chocolate out of my peanut butter!

Magnus1701
11-19-2009, 09:51 PM
christ almighty, if they start making brightly colored figs, fans bitch that we're going back to the neon-colored funskool days, and if they go for more realistic black, greys, greens and browns, they're all bland and boring. Wtf?!

And then no matter what they do we complain that they don't listen to us!!!
http://newsimg.ngfiles.com/60000/60474_tactical_facepalm.jpg


lmao!

Magnus1701
11-19-2009, 09:52 PM
Yeah never cared for the Dreadnoks either. They just seemed out of place and campy (even for an 80s cartoon). I just never could take them seriously as a threat.

I never understood the need for sport-related characters like the Fridge, Big Lob, etc. Though I did kinda like Captain Grid Iron at times.

Fatal Fluffies: Seriously Hasbro? Seriously?

I'm surprised no one else has mentioned the ridiculous amounts of money that Cobra Commander sunk into his fortresses and castles. I mean how many do we see in the show?

And the dude has a coliseum. A FRICKIN COLISEUM! If this guy spent more money funding his armies with more powerful weaponry (or proper marksmanship training ;-D) instead of being an overindulgent bastard he MIGHT actually win a battle every now and then.

Monkeywrench
11-19-2009, 09:55 PM
ROC because it took away the familiar feeling of G.I.Joe and turned it to something else that does not IMO feel at all like G.I. Joe. The colors of most ROC figures are so bland and boring.The figures are just as boring and while they are made with quality, the design of them in the end leaves alot to be desired.ROC killed it so much for me I actually stopped collecting when I swear I used to think "how am I ever going to stop??".I pass through the Joe section and there is no longer any "overwhelming" gotta have it,gotta find it,hope they have it,hope i find it vibe anymore.Instead I just see a overstocked blob of purplish black grey mass of lameness.Booo ROC.I am somewhat looking forward to POC but who knows when that comes out haha.

qft

Monkeywrench
11-19-2009, 10:09 PM
Roadblocks Rhyming. It just created the impression that all black people rap and rhyme all day. Really hated that

Falcon being dukes brother. and worst, he out ranked duke.

Storm Shadow being a good guy!

I agree with all 3 of yours

Breakerfan
11-19-2009, 10:11 PM
I have always loved the dreadnoks. Even Zandar and Zarana. I'm not sure why but I always have. In fact, if I could have more 25th figures, my first votes would be for the rest of the dreadnoks to be made.

I was so disappointed with the new roc Zartan. Granted, I have yet to see the movie but the action figure looks so boring and bland. It's on par with the vintage 90'sumptin mohawk Zartan which I thought was horrible.

However, photos I have seen on here with the POC desert Zartan are awesome! To me, it may as well be resolute Zartan. The uniform is updated in a new style while keeping the trademark hood and pseudo Alice Cooper face paint intact. My most anticipated figure so far.

DJ Radio Raheem
11-19-2009, 10:13 PM
I am sure that others have thought of this too, but I cannot stand Serpentor. Cobra Commander is in charge. His resident Mad Scientist conjurs up a super warrior who becomes a super leader. All the Cobra Legions follow mindlessly behind this new guy who puts on a Gold Snake Armor and bosses people around. And the stupid amount of "This I command!" statements that riddle the cartoon REALLY bug me. Hate Serpentor. He is clown shoes to me.


Agreed! Can't stand Serpentor.

Troynos
11-19-2009, 10:15 PM
Gotta agree with the Transformers being in Joe, but damn that Dreavewave/DDP crossover set in WW2 sure did look damn good.

Immortal_Joker
11-19-2009, 10:17 PM
Gotta agree with the Transformers being in Joe, but damn that Dreavewave/DDP crossover set in WW2 sure did look damn good.

I love that series

Sgt. Airborne
11-19-2009, 10:21 PM
Does making Duke and the Baroness engaged to be married count?

DJ Radio Raheem
11-19-2009, 10:26 PM
Oh and I forgot to mention I hate how Cobra never wins any battles. It is just ridiculous to think that all them battles and Cobra never comes up on the winning end. STUPID!

Michael24
11-19-2009, 10:38 PM
Roadblock talking in rhyme. That was so annoying. (I prefer Stalker over Roadblock.)

Quick Kick with his annoying celebrity impressions.

IronMan76
11-19-2009, 10:51 PM
i actually loved the dreadnoks. They were portrayed as pretty hardcore at times in the comic. Unfortunately, hama couldn't have the dreadnoks drinking beer and snorting coke in a kids comic, so he went with something so completely opposite like grape soda and doughnuts. And i liked zartan being their leader. I don't know if he was originally intended to lead the dreadnoks, but i liked the idea of zartan having his own underlings.

As far as what "popular" thing i don't like, i'd have to go with serpentor. The organization was cobra. The leader is cobra commander. 'nuff said!

Finaly someone who understands!!

Grape soda & doughnuts were just code for beer and drugs.

...Did you really think that "Yo Joe cola" was soda?!?!?

I'm glad I'm not the only person who can read between the lines...

Tankers are the best!

IronMan76
11-19-2009, 11:09 PM
Anything supernatural is not in my Joe-verse. Bending the laws of science I can take (and even like) up to a point, but I draw the line at blatant science defying. The most popular of these that I can't stand is the split-second Zartan transformations, clothes included. Instantaneous transformations with clothes work for Superman, time warps work for Star Trek, and strange creatures work for Star Wars. But to me this does not work for my version of GI Joe.

I agree!

No monsters, clones, ghosts, or psychics. No coming back to life (like CC & Storm Shadow in the comic).

At least the B.E.T. M.A.S.S. Device and Weather Dominator were pseudo science. Even the Pyramid of darkness can be likened to an EMP attack.

Tankers are the best Joe fans!

sparhawk
11-19-2009, 11:14 PM
DreadNoks. Great Idea, pisspoor execution. Evil Bikers cannot be made kid friendly. Just like clowns. BattleForce 2000. What woulda happened when 2001 hit? y2k cobra virus? Cobra-La. THIS is the reason studio execs should NOT make storyline descions. EVAAAR. Serpentor. C'mon now. REALLY? Howzabout instead of one soldier you kick that idea into overdrive for your legions of soldiers. Or, DNA super tweaked soldiers. Ninja Force. Death of a Great idea. Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow, in their original incarnation were iconic. And then proceeded to get beaten worse than a dead horse. Overexposure kills great characters. Eco-Tiger-Space-Rumpus Force Battalion Squad. To the man what green lighted this. Your days comes. And soon. SPECIAL HELL for you pal. Right next to the guys that talk through movies. And that movie playing over and over is RoC. And the theater is filled with H8ters. Anyhow, rant over, and just came up with a kick ass DIO idea after seeing the True Hero (i think) missle carrier truck at TRU. It involves Cobra, disbanded Joes, Oktober Guard, Buncha fodder, and Cobra wanting the Joe's M.A.S.S. device. aND A WHOLE BUNCHA ATTACKS around the world. wooo.

Pepsi Jedi
11-20-2009, 01:49 AM
The overabundance of Ninja's and ninja clans.

When it was SE and SS that's one thing. Eh... when Budo came in... ok... then suddenly BOOM there's SE's clan, there's Red Ninja's there's Night Creepers, ect ect ect, there were more ninja's than joes... on and on down to Ninja force and Slice and Dice and all.

For secret groups of assassins they'd sure come out of the wood work every 20 comics or so.

I didn't mind the psudo-science. Serpentor, from a KID's standpoint was awesome. I don't care what adults looking back 30 years say, but when you were 8, the idea of a geneticly built commander with all the good leaders of history was awesome. Sure he was campy but that was explained if I remember correctly.

The Drednoks didn't bother me. And yes. "Grape soda and donuts' was code, guys. Come on.

I'd LOVE to get a RoC Road pig... or Zarana, and Zanya. And Thrasher and thundermachine being honest.

I did not like Slaughter. He was hyped up and over blown. When ever we played, Slaughter would go stomping out yelling and one of my cobra's would just shoot him in the face. He was just annoying to me. Then IRL his 'character' in wrestling went off the deepend and started hating America and I thought. "Yep. Shoot the fraker for treason"

TU482
11-20-2009, 02:09 AM
Honestly, it's not canon to me, but I greatly disliked how in ROC, Duke (leader of the Joes and a moral figurehead for a generation of impressionable children) left his bride to be after her brother died. I mean, he didn't even go to the funeral. That really made the character not Duke for me.

TU482
11-20-2009, 02:10 AM
Wait, I re-read the thread title, and it says "popular" thing. In that case, Spirit's arrow gun was pretty ridiculous.

Mandingo Rex
11-20-2009, 02:47 AM
I loved the Sunbow cartoon, and to this day I'll argue that it's given more kids access to GI Joe than the toyline or comics combined. Sure, there was some overlap, but it was a free source of entertainment for kids, and I ate it up as a kid. It was fuel for the toys and sure as hell led me to buy them, but it was the 80s driving force behind the toyline if you ask me. Or just exposure to GI Joe for kids.

With that said, the show is bad watching it through adult eyes, but there were a lot of episodes that I felt were ok. Some, (similar to the Transformers episodes towards the end of Season 2) completely jumped the shark, and even as a child, I disliked them. I hated fatal fluffies as a kid, and they've exponentially grown in cringe-factor since then.

My childhood test was something along the lines of "Would I be okay with this if it was Indiana Jones?" Experimental weaponry, supernatural things, even fighting primitive species... didn't bother me too badly. Sci-Fi like lasers, DNA-engineered soldiers, jetpacks... Not so much.

Silly shit like "Fatal Fluffies" or even corny episodes like "The Viper is Coming" bugged me as a child. It's like I felt offended at age 5 that some adult thought I'd find it amusing, like a bad "pull my finger" joke or a tussle of the hair. (I didn't enjoy my hair being tussled as a kid.)

Mandingo Rex
11-20-2009, 02:58 AM
I despised both the GI Joe and Transformers cartoon films because they ruined the cartoon storyline for the sake of trying to "stir things up" and replace the main characters with all new ones, which GI Joe semi-recovered from (from my childhood eyes, anyways) with "Operation: Dragonfire".

Both GI Joe and Transformers films usurped the main hero and intended for them to be completely replaced with half-assed, cocky underlings who never managed to fill their shoes: Duke with Falcon, Prime with Hot Rod. Both films introduced some ridiculous backstory to retcon the existence of the main story: Cobra-La (terrible name) and the Quintessons (ok, cool name). TF and Joe introduced a super-threat that dwarfed the original villain, which made them seem insignificant: Cobra-La and Galactu... er, Unicron. Both films completely canned the main villain too, which really pissed me off, and their replacements paled in comparison: Serpentor replaced CC (for the time being) and Galvatron replaced Megatron (he was never the same in my eyes afterwards, even if he was the same character).

So for me, my childhood Joe love sort of ended with the film's opening sequence (which is my favorite animation ever), as far as ARAH canon is concerned. I actually liked DiC, but never felt that it was a continuation... more of a reinvention, but not in the same tone. Much goofier. Transformers completely killed it for me the moment Prime dies, and I completely disregard any characters introduced afterwards.

Nirvana
11-20-2009, 03:02 AM
Christ almighty, if they start making brightly colored figs, fans bitch that we're going back to the neon-colored funskool days, and if they go for more realistic black, greys, greens and browns, they're all bland and boring. WTF?!


The light blue camo on most of the figures is still pretty lame. Scarlett's and Cover Girl's are especially poor work all around. Only CS Duke has a good version to work from.

Mandingo Rex
11-20-2009, 03:05 AM
As far as "specifics?" I loved the Dreadnoks. Yes, they're goofy. But I always liked the idea of thugs working for Cobra, just as much as I loved the idea of Destro's weapons division and the Crimson Twins running a company that funded Cobra, and let them do things legally. They were just another tier to the evil empire.

I loved Serpentor, up until he became CC's replacement. Although I really like "Arise, Serpentor, Arise!" God, the first time I saw that as a kid, I loved the story. Serpentor as a super-soldier-gone-wrong, or failed-super-emperor, I like. When CC essentially became Starscream to Serpentor's Megatron, I stopped liking him.

Talking parrot. Hated Polly as a kid, even more so now. I know parrots can "talk" but the bird was waaay more annoying than Shipwreck's bad Nicholson impression any day of the week.

Tyroc
11-20-2009, 05:36 AM
I didn't mind the Dreadnoks, but I can see where people are coming from. Zandar's arrow gun never bothered me because I always used him as a poacher. Yeah his costume kinda stands out in the jungle or whatever but hey so does the Phantom.

What I never liked about Joe was Sgt Slaughter, some of the costumes were more village people then military (Gung Ho, Mindbender, Raptor) and don't get me started on Cobra La.

What I LOATHED as a kid was the frickin' laser beams in the cartoon. Yeah I know that they were to make it more sci fi and kid friendly (umm bullets kill people and laser guns don't?)

That and EVERYONE flew jets. Why was there need for Ace and Slipstream when all and sundry can hop in a jet and dogfight with Cobra Rattlers?

Oh and the twins. Don't get me wrong, I like Tomax and Xamot but the whole schtick of hit one and the other feels it is kinda lame (and caused the pair of twins in my class to get beat up every day to see if it worked in real life....it didn't, one of them got their ass kicked every day 'cos of that stupid gimmick..and stupid kids LOL)

Flint071
11-20-2009, 08:54 AM
Snake-eyes: He alway seemed a little too duex ex machina to me. Always had the secret stash of c4 to blow the lock, or the perfect insight or the ability to show up at the exact right time. He went way beyond just being a ninja, and into the realm of demi-god.

Everyone was an expert on everything (G.I. Joe Cartoon): Every Joe knowing how to hack a computer, or fly a Sky Striker, or operate Cobra equipment the minute they need to jump in the cockpit.

maskfreak
11-20-2009, 09:47 AM
The Fridge figure. When this character came out I was like WTF? Capt Grid Iron? As a kid I wanted them to kill these characters off.......

jumper11
11-21-2009, 09:48 AM
I'd have to say, I think the fact that so many characters are tied into the Arashikage clan is a bit weak.

Rocky
11-21-2009, 10:08 AM
The Fridge figure. When this character came out I was like WTF? Capt Grid Iron? As a kid I wanted them to kill these characters off.......

That they cancelled the ROCKY figure......... I know, I know there were legal issues but what a tease!

Monkeywrench
11-21-2009, 02:42 PM
That they cancelled the ROCKY figure......... I know, I know there were legal issues but what a tease!

I bet the figure would have been insanely popular if it did come out. It most likely wouldn't be liked now, but I bet at the time it would have been huge

TEAM Z
11-21-2009, 02:50 PM
Would have to be the creatures of cobra-la, I love nemesis enforcer and pytona ( the only characters worth the theme) but
the rest is just retarded.

Trooper13
11-21-2009, 03:03 PM
I am sure that others have thought of this too, but I cannot stand Serpentor. Cobra Commander is in charge. His resident Mad Scientist conjurs up a super warrior who becomes a super leader. All the Cobra Legions follow mindlessly behind this new guy who puts on a Gold Snake Armor and bosses people around. And the stupid amount of "This I command!" statements that riddle the cartoon REALLY bug me. Hate Serpentor. He is clown shoes to me.


EXACTLY. The worst thing is, the idea is sound and seems right up Cobra's alley. It would make a great story for the RoC continuity now. Genetic Engineering to create a super soldier made up of dna from past conquerors, dictators, and military leaders? Awesome. Could have a cool lead up story too, as Cobra would need to either put people undercover, or have agents break into museums to retrieve samples. Why the lame golden snake suit, and stupid personality?

The whole Cobra La thing ruined Joe for me. I mean, I was out growing it then anyhow, but that was the nail in the coffin for me.


-13

Echo7Solo
11-21-2009, 03:36 PM
Cobra-la
WAY TOO MANY F'N NINJAS!
and um..... **gets ready to duck**


































































































































BATS

khill926
11-21-2009, 03:44 PM
RoC.

Sgt. Slaughter.

YES YES & YES. I've never liked the Sarg.

JokerFC
11-22-2009, 12:14 PM
Everyone was an expert on everything (G.I. Joe Cartoon): Every Joe knowing how to hack a computer, or fly a Sky Striker, or operate Cobra equipment the minute they need to jump in the cockpit.



I disliked that too.Flint,Shipwreck,Roadblock etc flying Skystrikers bugged me even as a kid

TripleCP
11-22-2009, 01:01 PM
1. Slaughter.
2. Serpentor.
3. Ninjas other than SS and SE.
4. The expanded versions of the Dreadnoks / Zartan's family.
5. Cobra-La (although I don't think they qualify as "popular").
6. The rainbow of hyphen-Vipers.

storymodeller
11-22-2009, 01:02 PM
EXACTLY. The worst thing is, the idea is sound and seems right up Cobra's alley. It would make a great story for the RoC continuity now. Genetic Engineering to create a super soldier made up of dna from past conquerors, dictators, and military leaders? Awesome. Could have a cool lead up story too, as Cobra would need to either put people undercover, or have agents break into museums to retrieve samples. Why the lame golden snake suit, and stupid personality?

The whole Cobra La thing ruined Joe for me. I mean, I was out growing it then anyhow, but that was the nail in the coffin for me.


-13

I've never been a Serpentor fan, but you nailed why: its not the genetic engineering part, that could have sort of worked for me. It was the silly gaudiness that made me lose interest.

storymodeller
11-22-2009, 01:23 PM
I disliked that too.Flint,Shipwreck,Roadblock etc flying Skystrikers bugged me even as a kid

I noticed that yesterday when I was looking at ROC filecards, I mean at ROC ID badges.

EDIT: I like versatile, skilled, and highly trained, but some drama and characterisation are both lost if everyone is great at everything.

miscreant
11-22-2009, 01:37 PM
Zartan.


People say Eco-Warriors is unrealistic, but a guy in a belly top who can change color at will gets a free pass because of the cartoon.

Headman
11-22-2009, 01:38 PM
Snake Eyes. I just hate the guy.

Baron Samedi
11-22-2009, 02:12 PM
Like the OP, Troynos- I disliked the Dreadnoks and thought Zartan should have been his own entity. Zartan was a master of disguise, polylinguist, archer, martial artist, and all-around badass. Teaming him up with the 'Noks cheapened him, in my opinion. It's like having Slash play guitar with the Jonas Brothers.

Read 'em and weep, Troynos- 2 points we agree on. We're drawing awfully close to having beers. I got my eye on you.

And more:

Ninjas. I hated the idea of making the Ninja Force, and even making Firefly a ninja. Even though Firefly's M.O. fits more with the historical version of a ninja, I never thought he should do that. What was the logic there- the mask? And wasn't Zartan even shoved into the Ninja Force? Wow.

Lasers. Sorry, I just think that someone should have spoken up and said "Whoa, guys... lasers aren't even in a safe form of prototype for weaponized use. Perhaps we should wait on that... perhaps even research the possible difficulties with using something like that on the battlefield".

Transformers. I like Transformers, and I like the possibility of an "alternate" crossover, but the two should have never crossed paths in canon.

Snake Eyes speaking. I thought this was dumb, despite what others say about it being "pivotal" or "extremely emotional". No, screw that. I can see it now. Snake Eyes discharged for Malingering.

Baron Samedi
11-22-2009, 02:20 PM
double post, no idea how it happened.

cobracobra
11-22-2009, 02:30 PM
I always hated Life Line, I just thought he was a complete douche

miscreant
11-22-2009, 02:33 PM
nd wasn't Zartan even shoved into the Ninja Force? Wow.




At least they stopped just before Road Pig became a Ninja.

I always hated Life Line, I just thought he was a complete douche

Cartoon Lifeline was a walking public service announcement.
As for the design he was basically shouting 'hey look me in the red, feel free to open fire!'

...but as a kid i did like the figure a lot.

storymodeller
11-22-2009, 04:05 PM
Zartan.


People say Eco-Warriors is unrealistic, but a guy in a belly top who can change color at will gets a free pass because of the cartoon.

I'm trying to figure out if I'd like Zartan if he were just an evil but brilliant actor; a human master of real disguise, and not....

DrNightmare
11-22-2009, 04:08 PM
I don't like that Lady Jaye isn't naked more often.

hardataq
11-22-2009, 04:42 PM
Serpentor/Cobra-la by far for me. Serpentor was just awful for me. Every time I heard "this I command" I shuttered. Cobra-la just didn't fit at all, and I remember as a kid being disgusted by the look of them. Not that they were "scary" just road-kill ugly.

harveynemo
11-22-2009, 04:44 PM
More so than the character himself, I think I'm annoyed how (probably because of the cartoon) so many people mistake Duke for the leader of G.I. JOE and have no idea who Hawk is.

I agree I have never liked Duke because of that. I also never cared much for Snake eyes. I always felt he was made to look to superhuman.

Rocky
11-22-2009, 05:31 PM
Fanboys!

GI C
11-22-2009, 05:46 PM
Serpentor drove me crazy.I liked Cobra Commander as the head bad guy.People what to know where GI Joe jumped the shark,Serpentor and then Cobra La.I know I am going to get flak for this but I was not a fan of the DIC version.MetelHead was the bumbest character and this was one of Destro's Elite guys?

HgCdTe
11-22-2009, 05:52 PM
Capt. Grid-Iron.

TripleCP
11-22-2009, 05:55 PM
Zartan got too much air time imo, as did the Crimson Twins, while good ol' Major Bludd had his role diminished (did he even show up in ASA?) and other cool chars (Firefly) never got much play.

Dirtbag
11-22-2009, 06:10 PM
I never liked Storm Shadow as a good guy. Even when I was a kid when I got his Ninja Force figure he was a bad guy in my head.

I hated how much exposure Snake Eyes had in the comic book.

I know I'm gonna get heat for this but I disliked how everyone was related to Snake Eyes one way or the other. I mean seriously Firefly, Zartan, Cobra Commander, Destro, Baroness, Scarlett, Stalker and Storm Shadow.

dmizrok
11-22-2009, 06:10 PM
I was a HUGE fan of the comic over the cartoon (although it was close)...and has DOUBLE disappointed at Resolute and ROC, as NEITHER of them followed the SE/SS history correctly...IMO, ROC wouldve been decent if the flashbacks were of the comic book origin, not the little kids origin of the movie...add in more name dropping and small cameos too for that matter...

Dirtbag
11-22-2009, 06:25 PM
The overabundance of Ninja's and ninja clans.

When it was SE and SS that's one thing. Eh... when Budo came in... ok... then suddenly BOOM there's SE's clan, there's Red Ninja's there's Night Creepers, ect ect ect, there were more ninja's than joes... on and on down to Ninja force and Slice and Dice and all.

For secret groups of assassins they'd sure come out of the wood work every 20 comics or so.

I didn't mind the psudo-science. Serpentor, from a KID's standpoint was awesome. I don't care what adults looking back 30 years say, but when you were 8, the idea of a geneticly built commander with all the good leaders of history was awesome. Sure he was campy but that was explained if I remember correctly.

The Drednoks didn't bother me. And yes. "Grape soda and donuts' was code, guys. Come on.

I'd LOVE to get a RoC Road pig... or Zarana, and Zanya. And Thrasher and thundermachine being honest.

I did not like Slaughter. He was hyped up and over blown. When ever we played, Slaughter would go stomping out yelling and one of my cobra's would just shoot him in the face. He was just annoying to me. Then IRL his 'character' in wrestling went off the deepend and started hating America and I thought. "Yep. Shoot the fraker for treason"

When you are 6 years old Serpentor was awesome period. He threw living-javelin-snakes at people. That's F&**ing awesome.

miscreant
11-23-2009, 02:41 AM
.....l' Major Bludd had his role diminished (did he even show up in ASA?) and other cool chars (Firefly) never got much play.

They took the comedy aspect of Bludd's filecard and ran with it.
Pity. Perhaps their way of shuffling somebody wanted for war crimes, a *real life* aspect of war, to the side.

Quartermaine
11-23-2009, 03:11 AM
I am going with the Valor v. Venom story line. The concept was too fantastic, the characters were just chruned out like fast food in multiple variants and combinations, and any time in GI Joe History (going back to the 12" days) that the Joes have gone Sci Fi/Fantasy, it has tanked the line (Star Brigade and the Manimals).

I had high hopes for Battle Corps, but looking at my boxes of those figures, they were embarrassing too. The colors and the specialties. Gimme a break.

I prefer more plausibility in GI Joe fiigure design and vehicles.

lespaul59
11-23-2009, 03:13 AM
Slaughter was one of my favorite Joes untill I saw him for the first time when he went to the WWF if 1990. Then I was so dissapointed because the figure and the cartoon was this bodybuilder looking guy and in real life he looks nothing like his figure or cartoon depiction. I never like the Star Brigade figures that had the spring loaded weapon arm either.

samantha
11-23-2009, 05:28 AM
The battle force 2000 vehicles that did not connect to each other but rather just sat next to each other.

Tman
11-23-2009, 07:39 AM
Vehicle designs that place footpegs behind/in front of/near missiles or rockets. The second set of rotors on the Tomahawk. The Skystriker's landing gear mechanism being linked to the wings.

The Crimson twins. Never had a 'cool' moment making me think okay, they belong. Their origin was improved incrementally but their initial appearances were a blight on G.I. Joe's name. Circus freaks!

I don't like the fact that Cobra's iconic transport helo never found toy form.

The realistic adult in me hates the looseness of G.I. Joe uniforms - allowing iconic yet impractical additions to soldiers' uniforms.

The extent of the roster. Too many characters. Too many Vipers. All necessitated by toy sales, tho in the case of the former I wished they just put out new sculpts of the same character in a more mission-specific look and with appropriate gear.

The Delta
11-23-2009, 09:32 AM
cess-pool,raptor,crystal ball,and all the other goofy characters that were created after 1986.

DPrime
11-23-2009, 11:35 AM
C'mon guys, I thought this was going to be more interesting!

The title thread is "POPULAR thing of Joe canon" that you don't like.

Stuff like Cobra-la, Serpentor, Sgt. Slaughter, the Dreadnoks, even Duke... Sure they've all got their fans and are popular to a certain degree, but I read stuff here ALL THE TIME about how people hate them!

Gotta say though, there's not a whole lot that's widely considered to be "popular" that I hate. I don't know how popular the deaths of all those tertiary characters in the comic (mainly drivers like Crankcase and Thunder, etc) were. Maybe people liked it because of is "realism" but I disliked it. I felt it was kind of a cop-out.

I hate convoluted or retconned stories, especially with forced connections or relationships.

qft! I liked RoC, but I really disliked the Duke/CC/Baroness relationships. Completely unnecessary!

Same with the SW prequels, too. I mean, did there really need to be a Vader/Threepio father/son relationship? Did anyone really think that was "cool"?

I don't know, worked for Vader/Luke/Leia, but not for Duke/CC/Baroness. The retconned Cobra origin story from the '87 movie was pretty lame, too, but I don't think any of these are considered popular by many people...

blackrazor1
11-23-2009, 11:39 AM
I was a HUGE fan of the comic over the cartoon (although it was close)...and has DOUBLE disappointed at Resolute and ROC, as NEITHER of them followed the SE/SS history correctly...IMO, ROC wouldve been decent if the flashbacks were of the comic book origin, not the little kids origin of the movie...add in more name dropping and small cameos too for that matter...
I think ROC and Resolute would have had a hard time explaining the two highly atheletic 60yr olds battling for ninja supremacy. Both reboots tweeked the history to get past the Vietnam War connection.

Troynos
11-23-2009, 11:41 AM
The extent of the roster. Too many characters. Too many Vipers. All necessitated by toy sales, tho in the case of the former I wished they just put out new sculpts of the same character in a more mission-specific look and with appropriate gear.

You're going to love PoC then.

y2josh
11-23-2009, 12:10 PM
for me, the things I never liked were definitely the love triangle of Duke, Scarlett and Snake Eyes and the character Bazooka. I know love has it's place in life, but I for sure don't want it in my Joeverse. Also, Bazooka is basically a jackass klutz and there is no way that he would be in charge of such a dangerous weapon.

Trooper13
11-23-2009, 12:58 PM
I think ROC and Resolute would have had a hard time explaining the two highly atheletic 60yr olds battling for ninja supremacy. Both reboots tweeked the history to get past the Vietnam War connection.

Sorry, but that's a cop out. It's not like we've run out of wars since Vietnam. The Gulf War would have worked just fine.


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Troynos
11-23-2009, 01:00 PM
Sorry, but that's a cop out. It's not like we've run out of wars since Vietnam. The Gulf War would have worked just fine.


-13

Not if you're trying to make a more globally accepted franchise.

Trooper13
11-23-2009, 01:08 PM
Not if you're trying to make a more globally accepted franchise.

Yeah, because Vietnam was such a popular war. In terms of aging the characters the first Gulf War would place all the members of the team in their late 30's to early 40's. Which would work. It would still be a flashback, and I'm pretty sure GI Joe wasn't going to be a big hit in the Middle East no matter what they did with it.

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Troynos
11-23-2009, 01:13 PM
Yeah, because Vietnam was such a popular war. In terms of aging the characters the first Gulf War would place all the members of the team in their late 30's to early 40's. Which would work. It would still be a flashback, and I'm pretty sure GI Joe wasn't going to be a big hit in the Middle East no matter what they did with it.

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The difference is they weren't trying to market the franchise overseas when the 'Nam connection was made.

If the movie had been made back in the 90s, I doubt the 'Nam connection would have been used.

Bad business to do anything that could anger potential customers.

Personally, I don't think they needed any kind of back story for SE/SS in RoC or Resolute. It just took time away that could have been used for something else.

BigErn
11-23-2009, 01:19 PM
C'mon guys, I thought this was going to be more interesting!

The title thread is "POPULAR thing of Joe canon" that you don't like.


I can't stand the green shirts, not the fodder but the original 13. With the exception of Snake Eyes, Scarlett, Stalker, Flash and Grand Slam they suck. Didn't like them as a kid, don't like the 25th versions and wouldn't care if I ever saw them again. I know they have a huge following and a lot of fans like them, not me, they all look the same, boring.

As much as I love the comic those first issues with the original Joes bores me. If it wasn't for the Snake Eye's storyline I don't know if I would have made it to issue 21 and beyond when it became the GI Joe I love.

Trooper13
11-23-2009, 01:21 PM
Personally, I don't think they needed any kind of back story for SE/SS in RoC or Resolute. It just took time away that could have been used for something else.

I agree absolutely. Even if they wanted to give them a backstory in RoC continuity I think they should have saved the revelation that they knew each other for the end of the film. Then let SE drop him in the water, and leave it a "mystery". PoC should have seen SE reflecting on it, adding a little to the backstory, then have SS appear "back from the dead" at the very end. The third movie could have explained it, if they wanted to, or not. I hate that they used most of the Cobra big guns in the first movie and gave away all their origins. I know they had most of the cast already locked in to sequels, from what I've heard. Why not take the time to tell a decent story?


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Moses
11-23-2009, 01:26 PM
I agree absolutely. Even if they wanted to give them a backstory in RoC continuity I think they should have saved the revelation that they knew each other for the end of the film. Then let SE drop him in the water, and leave it a "mystery". PoC should have seen SE reflecting on it, adding a little to the backstory, then have SS appear "back from the dead" at the very end. The third movie could have explained it, if they wanted to, or not. I hate that they used most of the Cobra big guns in the first movie and gave away all their origins. I know they had most of the cast already locked in to sequels, from what I've heard. Why not take the time to tell a decent story?


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I suspect they wanted the movie to be stand alone in case they didn't greenlight a sequel. In the end of ROC, CC, Destro and baroness are in custody and SS is dead. Could be the end of story with no loose ends if the movie tanked.

Cksport
11-23-2009, 04:57 PM
I am not a fan of Cobra La, Nemesis Enforcer, Pythona, or Serpentor..

Well, actually, if they gave Serpentor a different backstory it would have been better... Like a viper that rised through the troops, have a great following and then tried to overthrow Cobra Commander.. None of this mindbender made him from the dna of great leaders.
I do however buy Mindbender building BAT's, but it ends with BAT V1. No Overkill or other BAT versions.
Basically when it gets too sci-fi or to comic book superhero like, I lose all interest.

Want to know the only two figures not on my 25th/ME shelves?? Nemesis Enforcer and a Serpentor. I have each figure, but they are sitting in a shoebox. A red and black Deadpool is in their place for the wolverine origins line (the only non-joe I own).

When my fiance saw nemesis enforcer on the shelf in his pink outfit with the wings, she didnt believe it was a joe.. I agreed that they were ridiculous and they never went back up.

Troynos
11-23-2009, 05:00 PM
I suspect they wanted the movie to be stand alone in case they didn't greenlight a sequel. In the end of ROC, CC, Destro and baroness are in custody and SS is dead. Could be the end of story with no loose ends if the movie tanked.

The novelization, which was apparently based on an earlier draft then what made the final movie cut, has CC and Destro escaping and the Baroness saying that she enjoyed doing the bad things and that the nanomite brainwashing will be next to impossible to undo.


So yeah, the movie's ending was done to wrap it up nice and neat in case there wasn't a sequal.

I'm hoping a Director's Cut will have the real ending.

Trooper13
11-23-2009, 05:13 PM
I suspect they wanted the movie to be stand alone in case they didn't greenlight a sequel. In the end of ROC, CC, Destro and baroness are in custody and SS is dead. Could be the end of story with no loose ends if the movie tanked.

Must be the artist in me. I can't imagine writing a song thinking it would fail. I can't imagine sitting down to write a movie and not trying to write the best movie I could.

Also, just because they may not have had a sequel doesn't mean that you need to explain anything. What's that old saying? "Always leave 'em wanting more?"

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dmizrok
11-23-2009, 07:03 PM
The difference is they weren't trying to market the franchise overseas when the 'Nam connection was made.

If the movie had been made back in the 90s, I doubt the 'Nam connection would have been used.

Bad business to do anything that could anger potential customers.

Personally, I don't think they needed any kind of back story for SE/SS in RoC or Resolute. It just took time away that could have been used for something else.

i say the same about Duke; all that back story and connections to Baroness and CC were unneeded...
As for the war,Hell, it was in the near future: they couldve made a war up...
Heres a good question: why was Ripcord named Ripcord BEFORE he met the Joes? Wasnt he a driver?

dmizrok
11-23-2009, 07:08 PM
I also dont get why Grand Slam,Flash and now Tripwire are all dressed almost IDENTICAL to one another....cop out by the design department..

Rocky
11-23-2009, 07:12 PM
Must be the artist in me. I can't imagine writing a song thinking it would fail. I can't imagine sitting down to write a movie and not trying to write the best movie I could.

Also, just because they may not have had a sequel doesn't mean that you need to explain anything. What's that old saying? "Always leave 'em wanting more?"

-13

Movies can be art but when you have a committe of people running things then it ceases to be art and just business. But regardless I understand what you are saying.

Troynos
11-23-2009, 07:18 PM
I also dont get why Grand Slam,Flash and now Tripwire are all dressed almost IDENTICAL to one another....cop out by the design department..

Huh? What you mean? Grand Slam and Flash have always looked identical to eachother and Tripwire is the same body as his 25th, just different colors.

Actually, RoC Flash looks nothing like either Grand Slam or Tripwire.

i say the same about Duke; all that back story and connections to Baroness and CC were unneeded...
As for the war,Hell, it was in the near future: they couldve made a war up...
Heres a good question: why was Ripcord named Ripcord BEFORE he met the Joes? Wasnt he a driver?

Ripcord was his special forces nickname, just like Duke was Duke before joining the Joes. They're not nicknames as much as they are callsigns and Delta Force uses them in real life. I'm not 100% positive but pretty sure other special forces units, like the SEaLs, use them as well.


I didn't like the connection between Baroness, CC and Duke but then I never liked all the connections in the original Marvel comics either. I just let that one slide as their attempt at making a nod to the Marvel Comics.

Also, it provides something for the average movie goer to latch onto and gives them somewhat of a hook.

Trooper13
11-23-2009, 07:27 PM
Ripcord was his special forces nickname, just like Duke was Duke before joining the Joes. They're not nicknames as much as they are callsigns and Delta Force uses them in real life. I'm not 100% positive but pretty sure other

I find it hard to believe that Ripcord, and Duke were SF, but I'll let that slide. As I pointed out in another thread. Why Ripcord? He's a soldier, one that as far as we've seen isn't even jump qualified. (Again, SF? Those guys didn't even strike me as being squared away enough to be Airborne.) Why would his call sign be Ripcord? I mean I know he wants to be a fighter pilot, but wouldn't that be like calling a Ship's Captain "Life Boat", or something? Not exactly the best call sign.

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edited for grammar

dmizrok
11-23-2009, 08:17 PM
Huh? What you mean? Grand Slam and Flash have always looked identical to eachother and Tripwire is the same body as his 25th, just different colors.

Actually, RoC Flash looks nothing like either Grand Slam or Tripwire.






.

right about the ROC Flash...but the new Tripwire that comes with the Outpost, hes a Grand Slam, silver and all . ARAH was accepted cause they were saving money on molds...but for Flash and Grand Slam to look exactly the same (even their heads!) is in excusable now that Hasbro has the loot they have...

SGT Long
11-24-2009, 10:41 PM
You know, I think the biggest fans will have the largest list of stuff they hate. Funny how that works.

1) Serpentor, Cobra-la and that brief run of aliens and were supposed to be villians for that line of Joe astronauts. (Not even the cartoon would touch that) Just because Marvel did the comic dosen't mean that G.I. Joe should have villians that belonged to the Fantastic Four.

2) Firefly as a ninja after years of denying as much. I touched on this on another thread,so forgive my repitition for those who read this prior. Firefly's classic look came along in the 80's when Ninjas were all over popular culture. as a result, Larry Hama had to tell people every month that just because Firefly wore a balaclava, he wasnt a ninja. Finally, Firefly changed his costume during the loathesome "ninja force" period and was revealed to be a ninja. with super powers. and cheerleader-like pyramads he'd make with Askarage clan ninjas. no, I'm not kidding. I wonder which Hama family member was held hostage for Larry to green light that $%&*.

3) The cartoon. I thought it silly then as I was really into the Marvel comic at the time. Granted, yeah. The target audience was decidedly prebuecent while I was in middle/high school but it bugged me that they would pick up a "cool" character and have everything revolve around him. Duke and later Flint. It was as bad as the comic book facination with...

4) ninjas, ninjas and moooore ninjas. Oh, I was so sick of ninjas in the Joe universe by 1990. It had already died in movies,TV etc. Marvel/Hasbro just couldn't let it go. Want to find out more back story on your favourite character? Unless they wore a mask or had some interaction with the Snake Eyes-soap opera, then forget it. I always thought it ironic that the "mysterious" characters are the only ones we really have any background on from 1982-1994.

5) Lack of figures for Kwinn and Dr Venom, yes-I'm still %&*@ about that.

6) No Oktober Guard figures until after the fall of the USSR...and a crappy attempt, at that.

7) Sigma six. I turned off the TV 20 seconds into the premere episode.

8) Streetfighter figures, which had no interest from anyone made the same scale as the Joe team while GI Joe Extreme and SGT Savage, which could have done better, were made in a oddball size
and they bombed and went the way of Eagle Force, General Patch and SGT Rock. (Lets see who gets those references ha ha)

SGT Long
11-24-2009, 10:45 PM
I find it hard to believe that Ripcord, and Duke were SF, but I'll let that slide. As I pointed out in another thread. Why Ripcord? He's a soldier, one that as far as we've seen isn't even jump qualified. (Again, SF? Those guys didn't even strike me as being squared away enough to be Airborne.) Why would his call sign be Ripcord? I mean I know he wants to be a fighter pilot, but wouldn't that be like calling a Ship's Captain "Life Boat", or something? Not exactly the best call sign.

-13

edited for grammar

Well, going off the Marvel timeline-Duke had been a SF NCO in Vietnam and Ripcord-the White guy version-was billed as a HALO jumper.

lespaul59
11-25-2009, 01:16 AM
Well, going off the Marvel timeline-Duke had been a SF NCO in Vietnam and Ripcord-the White guy version-was billed as a HALO jumper.

According to the ROC Mission Dossier book Ripcord logs flight time every leave to keep his flight qualification up to date. So He could have picked up the Ripcord name from that.

Headman
11-25-2009, 01:25 AM
Dr. Venom. He was dead after what? Nine issues? Mindbender >>> Venom, yet fans will still complain about him never getting a figure. I hope they cast Sean Wayans as Doctor Venom in the next movie, even though he's no where near as annoying as Marlon.

Monkeywrench
11-25-2009, 01:40 AM
Dr. Venom. He was dead after what? Nine issues? Mindbender >>> Venom, yet fans will still complain about him never getting a figure. I hope they cast Sean Wayans as Doctor Venom in the next movie, even though he's no where near as annoying as Marlon.

I agree that Mindbender is better then venom. I think Venom died in issue 19.

Baron Samedi
11-25-2009, 06:05 AM
I was a HUGE fan of the comic over the cartoon (although it was close)...and has DOUBLE disappointed at Resolute and ROC, as NEITHER of them followed the SE/SS history correctly...

Change, my friend. And when you say "correctly" and "wrong", keep in mind that it's like being invited over to my house- and then you tell me that it's wrong of me to serve whiskey at 9 AM. I will advise you to go and look and see whose property it is, and note that you have no say in the goings-on. Like it or leave it.

Besides, what did you want- 15 episodes of Resolute explaining a a background with SS/SE? Yeah, that over-doctored and re-edited origin wouldn't get greenlighted if it came with free strippers.

Trooper13
11-25-2009, 09:51 AM
Well, going off the Marvel timeline-Duke had been a SF NCO in Vietnam and Ripcord-the White guy version-was billed as a HALO jumper.

I get that, but as we've established, RoC isn't Marvel. Duke is a commissioned officer in RoC. I understand that the original Ripcord was a HALO jumper, but how does that translate to RoC?


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Trooper13
11-25-2009, 09:54 AM
According to the ROC Mission Dossier book Ripcord logs flight time every leave to keep his flight qualification up to date. So He could have picked up the Ripcord name from that.


Which was my point. Wouldn't that be like calling a Ship's Captain "Life Boat", or "Life Vest"? Calling a Pilot "Ripcord", would make one think he was a crappy pilot, IMO. lol

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Baron Samedi
11-25-2009, 10:07 AM
Which was my point. Wouldn't that be like calling a Ship's Captain "Life Boat", or "Life Vest"? Calling a Pilot "Ripcord", would make one think he was a crappy pilot, IMO. lol

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A driver named "Airbag", a doctor named "Malpractice", a maid named "Clepto", etc...

Better yet, like having a girlfriend whose nickname is "Penicillin".

Troynos
11-25-2009, 10:14 AM
I get that, but as we've established, RoC isn't Marvel. Duke is a commissioned officer in RoC. I understand that the original Ripcord was a HALO jumper, but how does that translate to RoC?


-13

Reading the prequel stuff (comics, I haven't read the novel yet but skimmed thru it real quick), it appears that Dukes SF unit is an airborne unit, so Ripcord gets the name the same way the ARAH Ripcord gets the name.

Why they're on escort duty in the movie, I believe it has to do with the mission in the prequel novel that sets that up.

Yeah, it's prequel stuff, that doesn't show in the movie, but it is technically canon for the RoC universe.

Flint071
11-25-2009, 10:15 AM
I'd have to say, I think the fact that so many characters are tied into the Arashikage clan is a bit weak.

I support this - apparently the Arashikage Clan was so bad-ass that anyone with a valid library card could join up.

Trooper13
11-25-2009, 10:19 AM
Reading the prequel stuff (comics, I haven't read the novel yet but skimmed thru it real quick), it appears that Dukes SF unit is an airborne unit, so Ripcord gets the name the same way the ARAH Ripcord gets the name.

Why they're on escort duty in the movie, I believe it has to do with the mission in the prequel novel that sets that up.

Yeah, it's prequel stuff, that doesn't show in the movie, but it is technically canon for the RoC universe.

All SF units are Airborne capable. You need to be jump qualified to be in Special Forces.

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Trooper13
11-25-2009, 10:19 AM
I support this - apparently the Arashikage Clan was so bad-ass that anyone with a valid library card could join up.



lmao..Curses!


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Troynos
11-25-2009, 10:19 AM
I'm pretty sure that the Ninja Force stuff, with Firefly, was Hama's attempt to "just deal with this crap". I don't think he liked it, was forced to use it, so he just went with it and that's why we got stuff like the Ariashakage Cheerleader Pyramid of Doom.

He figured, if I gotta go there, why not go all the way there and then over.

Troynos
11-25-2009, 10:20 AM
All SF units are Airborne capable. You need to be jump qualified to be in Special Forces.

-13

Right, so that's where Ripcord got the name. Same reason the ARAH got it.

Whether you think they were or not, doesn't really matter, because the canon has established that they were.


Edit: In the Duke prequel comic, Duke actually calls Ripcord the "expert jumper" or something along those lines, indicating Ripcords role in the unit, which would lead to his Ripcord callsign. I'll have to look it up when get home tonight.

Baron Samedi
11-25-2009, 10:22 AM
I support this - apparently the Arashikage Clan was so bad-ass that anyone with a valid library card could join up.

This is a popular misconception. You now have to have the Blockbuster Rewards card.

Trooper13
11-25-2009, 10:32 AM
Right, so that's where Ripcord got the name. Same reason the ARAH got it.

Whether you think they were or not, doesn't really matter, because the canon has established that they were.


Edit: In the Duke prequel comic, Duke actually calls Ripcord the "expert jumper" or something along those lines, indicating Ripcords role in the unit, which would lead to his Ripcord callsign. I'll have to look it up when get home tonight.

Fair enough, I'll chalk it up to bad writing.


Edited to add: Honestly, and it's just not RoC, I HATE the whole comic tie-in BS. It's not that I hate comics, I love them. I loved the Marvel GI Joe run, but I shouldn't NEED to buy and read a comic to know what's going on in a movie. I bet if I were to read those Prequels, it would make RoC not only alot more clear, but enjoyable. That's BS.


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NeoDragonKnight
11-25-2009, 11:08 AM
People keep saying BF2000 and Serpentor, but honestly were they even that popular to begin with? I guess its subjective.

For me, the whole ninja thing (and I know that for sure is popular) kind of got out of hand, as others have said I dont like how SE is portrayed as a 1 man nuke.

Trooper13
11-25-2009, 11:32 AM
I wish they had just left Snake Eyes a commando. Why the sword, lame knights mask that makes NO SENSE, and wolf side kick? He was cool, like Firefly was cool. Oh yeah....they ruined him too...

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Flint071
11-25-2009, 11:34 AM
This is a popular misconception. You now have to have the Blockbuster Rewards card.

Damn late fees - now I'll never get my tattoo.

JoeMama
11-25-2009, 11:45 AM
I'll chime in and say:
A.) Any celebrity cameo figure. It makes no sense. Why would the Refridgerator Perry, high off of a super bowl win and enriched with endorsement deals, be tapped to join an elite special forces team and fight in a battle-time environment with a goofy non-NFL sports outfit?
No sense.
I can defend Rowdy Roddy Piper's 25th one-shot in that he is an over the hill celebrity, from Scotland, that maybe was out of work and picked up to train men for MARS, since he is a grenadier training guy. In the real world, civilians get tapped for this from time to time depending on proficiency, so I'll let that one slide. Also, because I have never seen the figure in person to bash it.
B.) Any joe figure in sporting attire. You are fighting a vile, ruthless terrorist organization, not playing kickball at the elementary school. Wearing a white jersey and blue baseball hat (yes, I'm talking about HARDBALL)is not only counterproductive to the soldier, but bad for the unit. Gives away their position when one dumb@$$ sticks out and draws fire.
3.) Consistency with weaponary. Let's be straight. I'm a 7 year kid in the '80's, and even then I'm imagining a procurement nightmare for some poor joe greenshirt trying to order ammo for all the different types of guns each joe has. From outdated NATO small arms to future plasma rifles, when one joe is out, it ain't like he's just gonna grab a clip from his fellow pal. Ain't gonna happen. It's a military unit, a general issue (thus the GI for those who are counting) attack force of everyday joe's, so how about some regularity? All I'm saying is there should be more M16's with the figs, so if you want to be an OCD collector like me, you can have your dudes in the same gear.
Said. Done. Face.

Rocky
11-25-2009, 11:46 AM
Blockbuster is so 2008.......... now its all about the Redbox!

JoeMama
11-25-2009, 11:49 AM
I wish they had just left Snake Eyes a commando. Why the sword, lame knights mask that makes NO SENSE, and wolf side kick? He was cool, like Firefly was cool. Oh yeah....they ruined him too...

-13

ah.. had forgotten about the familiars.

D.) Familiars. Special unit "elite" do not need animals crapping in the backs of hummers. No one needs an animal, unless you are Roland, than you get a hawk.

Rocky
11-25-2009, 11:50 AM
I'll chime in and say:
A.) Any celebrity cameo figure. It makes no sense. Why would the Refridgerator Perry, high off of a super bowl win and enriched with endorsement deals, be tapped to join an elite special forces team and fight in a battle-time environment with a goofy non-NFL sports outfit?
No sense.


Thats exactly why Rocky jumped ship on the Joes and decided to instead take on Russia (in the form of Ivan Drag) by himself! He is a one man army of whoop-ass!

Mandingo Rex
11-25-2009, 11:53 AM
LOL. You guys crossing canons.

Anything off-screen, whether it's a toy bio, Wal-Mart exclusive figure, comic "tie-in", video game, prequel novel, DVD commentary... Is not part of film canon.

Perhaps "Rise of Cobra" canon, but that's a stretch if you ask me, as some of it is often contradictory. How can Zartan succesfully be mimicking the Prez while he's off being pursued by GI Joe dressed as Raptor? Each genre, while based off the same general story, can't seamlessly be rolled into one cohesive storyline.

Rocky
11-25-2009, 12:01 PM
LOL. You guys crossing canons.

Anything off-screen, whether it's a toy bio, Wal-Mart exclusive figure, comic "tie-in", video game, prequel novel, DVD commentary... Is not part of film canon.



I agree with you 100%. I have a friend who was going all trivial pursuit on us and asked what beloved Star Wars character died? We had no idea.... some sad, Ben, Yoda and numerous other characters. He said "nope, Chewbacca" I was like WTF? and he then proceeded to tell us how in one of the books the big guy died..... We all argued that you could not/should not count them but he said it was canon.... (which I believe him) and it was now part of the film history...... really?

Another friend defends Harry Potter and whenever we find a plot hole or something that does not make sense he says the worst words you can think of: "You have to read the book for that to make sense" ....No, I f**king should not have to. If you are making the film - make the film and make it make sense!!!! I should not have to read the book to make sense of your film.

Star Trek did that with the prequel comic. Why should I have to read a comic to find out why Nero is crazy...........sigh........end rant!

Mandingo Rex
11-25-2009, 12:14 PM
Oh yeah, each medium should be accountable based on its own merits. I mean, if their defense is "well what I think they were going for was based off a story from the comic..." then that's okay to me... It's more or less deductive reasoning. But that's all it is, is connecting loose ends. It doesn't "confirm" anything, but it may help make a little more sense in your head. Hell, even Extended Cuts or Director's Cut versions of film, I can accept as canon, because that's a self-contained piece usually... But you have to see Superman II as 2 separate versions... The original, and the Donner cut. You can't mix them; they simply won't make sense.

ponycorn
11-25-2009, 05:09 PM
Does making Duke and the Baroness engaged to be married count?

It counts in my book. I loved most of ROC except for that part. I'm secretly hoping that Baroness is playing Duke and hasn't "come around" at all.

JoeMama
11-25-2009, 08:53 PM
LOL. You guys crossing canons.

.

huh. ha. you said crossing canons.

Mandingo Rex
11-25-2009, 09:11 PM
huh. ha. you said crossing canons.

:)

Never cross canons.

Troynos
11-25-2009, 09:30 PM
I tend to agree about the crossing Canons thing.

But I'm okay with a comic book or a book being part of that continuity.

So I guess I care more about the continuity then the actual media. So canons can cross media, they just can't mix with other continuities.

Does that make sense?

Star Wars is supposed to be one giant continuity, and for the most part is it, there are hiccups but along the way it's one long story from start to whatever the finish ends up being.

Chewbacca did die. In a story that takes place about 30 years after A New Hope. Han and Leia did have children, 3 but only 1 is still alive. Luke's got a son and is a widower.

These all take place in the "future" of the Star Wars continuity. But it is the true Star Wars continuity, the only one.

Joe now has many. Currently we are running:
IDW
RoC
Resolute

In the past we had Marvel and Sunbow.

DiC was part of Sunbow.

DDP tried to mix continuties when they took over the comics liscense, with bad results in my opinion.

Then Joe got Sigma Six, another continuity that has ended.

Would Spytroops and VvV be something else as well?

This talk has gotten me thinking it's time to pull out the idea I've been kicking around, but that's a story for another time, lol

Anyways, continuities can cross media but then you have to be sure to make sure all those different stories in different media connect.

Star Wars does this. The video games, movies, cartoon series, comic books and expanded universe stories all connect.

IDW's Star Trek story can be rendered null and void by any future Trek sequels, but for now stands as part of continuity.

Same can be said of the upcoming IDW/RoC Operation HISS comic series. It can be rendered null and void and useless if the sequal doesn't pick up on what happens during the run of the series.

That's the drawback of doing a continuity across multiple media, the editor/guy in charge better have a good handle on it and control it tight or it's all useless.

SGT Long
11-25-2009, 09:40 PM
A driver named "Airbag", a doctor named "Malpractice", a maid named "Clepto", etc...

Better yet, like having a girlfriend whose nickname is "Penicillin". Or a sailor named Shipwreck. oh, wait....

I'm pretty sure that the Ninja Force stuff, with Firefly, was Hama's attempt to "just deal with this crap". I don't think he liked it, was forced to use it, so he just went with it and that's why we got stuff like the Ariashakage Cheerleader Pyramid of Doom.

He figured, if I gotta go there, why not go all the way there and then over.

I remember seeing the cheerleader pyramid of doom on the splash page and wondering, for the first time since 1982, "Why am I reading this?"

Another example that I suspect Hama did under protest was the infamous 2d Transformers/Joe crossover. The first, a mini-series in the mid-80's, was constantly stressed by Hama to have nothing whatsoever do do with the Joe universe. However, we saw what eventually happened.

Troynos
11-25-2009, 09:54 PM
So wait... if the Transformers really existed in the Joe universe, then that means that Circuitbreaker exists in the Joe universe and that means Spider-Man exists in the Joe universe, which means the Joe universe is really the Marvel universe and ...


...my head hurts now...


(and yes, Spider-Man appeared in Issue #3 of the original Transformers limited series)

Mandingo Rex
11-26-2009, 12:12 AM
Troynos, that makes my head hurt.

RoadShlock
11-26-2009, 12:31 AM
I hated the growing flamboyant colors that were applied to vehicles, soldiers, the bizarre vehicles (Cobra pogo? WTF?), and the whole Tiger Force bs. I liked that GI Joe was a military-themed toyline in the beginning with a SPECTRE-ish villain organization with specialized agents. I think the first 2, maybe 3 waves were ok. But as soon as Joe's were wearing sports outfits and day-glo colors (Sci-Fi anyone?), I was done.

Serpentor, Cobra-La, and the growing divergence from military to fantasy killed it for me.

Super Beast
11-26-2009, 12:42 AM
I hated serpie having so many freakin clones in the comics. It was stupid. it started taking a clone wars turn. then a BSG turn when everyone starts finding out they are serpentors. And he should have died after he was blown up by a bomb in CC's helmet then kicked off a dam. that was awesome.

zenfakor
11-26-2009, 12:47 AM
I hated how in the comic, they changed the characters often to show the newest toy coming out, and in the toon, I hated how they all fired weapons like they were part of the A-TEAM.

zenfakor
11-26-2009, 12:48 AM
oh and I wish they focused more on the original 13, they could have done that for awhile longer in my opinion.

Phalsis
11-26-2009, 01:13 AM
In the cartoon both side fired lasers. It the comic, bullets.
I watched and read both and loved both. But the reality that was shown in the comics of Joes and Cobras being wounded by bullets and shrapnel made it for me. I understand it was a catoon aimed at kids and that the parents would have had a probelm with Flint blowing a Cobra Viper's head off with his shot gun. Lasers were 'cleaner' I guess. Everything fired them in the cartoon and made it colorful and safe viloence.
I figure Hasbro must have thought that the cartoon would be seen by everyone and the comic by only collectors. So that influenced the decison. The irony of it all for me was that if you read the data sheets on the toys from then. They actually list the weapons types on the vehicles as mostly non-laser weapons and that they shoot bullets or shells. Even the figures came with realistic copies of actual guns. The only original Joe I remember with the classic laser gun from the cartoon was Snow Job.
Funny ain't it?

lespaul59
11-26-2009, 05:04 AM
I'll chime in and say:
A.) Any celebrity cameo figure. It makes no sense. Why would the Refridgerator Perry, high off of a super bowl win and enriched with endorsement deals, be tapped to join an elite special forces team and fight in a battle-time environment with a goofy non-NFL sports outfit?
No sense.
I can defend Rowdy Roddy Piper's 25th one-shot in that he is an over the hill celebrity, from Scotland, that maybe was out of work and picked up to train men for MARS, since he is a grenadier training guy. In the real world, civilians get tapped for this from time to time depending on proficiency, so I'll let that one slide. Also, because I have never seen the figure in person to bash it.
B.) Any joe figure in sporting attire. You are fighting a vile, ruthless terrorist organization, not playing kickball at the elementary school. Wearing a white jersey and blue baseball hat (yes, I'm talking about HARDBALL)is not only counterproductive to the soldier, but bad for the unit. Gives away their position when one dumb@$$ sticks out and draws fire.
3.) Consistency with weaponary. Let's be straight. I'm a 7 year kid in the '80's, and even then I'm imagining a procurement nightmare for some poor joe greenshirt trying to order ammo for all the different types of guns each joe has. From outdated NATO small arms to future plasma rifles, when one joe is out, it ain't like he's just gonna grab a clip from his fellow pal. Ain't gonna happen. It's a military unit, a general issue (thus the GI for those who are counting) attack force of everyday joe's, so how about some regularity? All I'm saying is there should be more M16's with the figs, so if you want to be an OCD collector like me, you can have your dudes in the same gear.
Said. Done. Face.

Refridgerator Perry is another figure compaired to real person that lost me because of the bodybuilder look of the figure and what the guy really looks like. I was 5 when he came out so I didn't even know who the guy was. I also could care less if a continuity is made up of books, comics, movies and games. But I would rather they not try and combine different continuities. Like I can't stand the Christopher Reeves Superman that is being drawn in the comics right now, but I really like the movies. Just like I could care less if Duke in the comics or any new cartoons looks like CT. But of it's based on ROC then I have no problem. And I think the cartoon having all of the same type of gun was a plus. I mean Roadblock, Rock n Roll and maybe Gung Ho could have had heavy machine guns but at least they all still used the same type of gun as everybody else.

Tyroc
11-26-2009, 06:46 AM
So wait... if the Transformers really existed in the Joe universe, then that means that Circuitbreaker exists in the Joe universe and that means Spider-Man exists in the Joe universe, which means the Joe universe is really the Marvel universe and ...


...my head hurts now...


(and yes, Spider-Man appeared in Issue #3 of the original Transformers limited series)

Well Shang Chi, Master of Kung Fu and his supporting cast appeared in a few issues of Marvel's Action Force comic. In that continuity Shang Chi was the one who taught Quick Kick some of his skills.

Weezus
11-26-2009, 07:03 AM
worst thing of the gi joe canon?

there isnt any real gi joe canon as far as i can see. canon meaning law and that being a particular set of things upheld by the series as a whole which is nonexistant pretty much aside for small details like destro always wearing a silver face mask...

i feel very nerdy now.

hmmm... the things i think are corny about gi joe now were my favorite things about it as a small child. particularly the ninjas.

quick kick, snake eyes, stormshadow, slice, dice etc...

cool when i was a kid... now i dont even display them in my collection.

Trooper13
11-26-2009, 08:03 AM
Or a sailor named Shipwreck. oh, wait.....

Right, but that was fine because the running joke was that Shipwreck was a floating disaster, but he always made it out somehow. Hell, in the new video game they allude to it. When you go in to defeat Cobra they don't know what happened to Shipwreck. His sub was found washed up on the beach, the irony of that doesn't escape me, either. However, they mention that he always seems to make it out okay. Which he does.

It kind of loses something if everyone in Joe is a screw up, with derogatory names. How does a Sailor who is a complete assclown even get asked to join GI Joe?

As far as comic prequels it's pretty beat that they don't tell you ahead of time. It's not like they advertised the comics, or even put it in the previews at the theater like "WARNING: This movie will seem like a poorly written POS if you don't go buy these additional media tie-ins."

While there are things in RoC continuity that I find eyeroll worthy, I can except those as "not MY Joe", but the new Joe, and get into it. However, making a movie that relies on someone reading a comic book to be able to make the movie seem anything remotely credible, then not letting the general public know about it is annoying at best, and some seriously halfassed storytelling. It's not like the majority of America hangs out in comic shops, hell it's not even like the majority of Joe fans does anymore.


-13

dmizrok
11-26-2009, 08:56 AM
I'm pretty sure that the Ninja Force stuff, with Firefly, was Hama's attempt to "just deal with this crap". I don't think he liked it, was forced to use it, so he just went with it and that's why we got stuff like the Ariashakage Cheerleader Pyramid of Doom.

He figured, if I gotta go there, why not go all the way there and then over.

Hama said in the letter column of one of the later comics that he was withholding the faceless masters id since the beginning...he had planned ALL ALONG (according to him, mind you) that Firefly was a ninja...I will go on record as saying that although I was into the ninjas, at this point this was too much...lol

Troynos
11-26-2009, 10:54 AM
However, making a movie that relies on someone reading a comic book to be able to make the movie seem anything remotely credible, then not letting the general public know about it is annoying at best, and some seriously halfassed storytelling.


I bet you that over 1/2 of the people that went and saw the movie could have cared less where Ripcords name came from and why he had it. The thought probably never crossed their minds.

Most of the people that saw the Joe movie (Joe fans aren't a huge population) weren't knowledgable about the Joe franchise (or barely remembered it from being a kid - good example, friend of my roommates came over and was looking at my collection, he used to play with Joes as a kid, and he points at a PTE boat I had displayed with some Joes and goes "I had that boat").

So really, it's not half-assed storytelling. Nothing is forcing you to go and buy the comics, they aren't needed, they just further the story. The movie functions just fine without having to know why Ripcord is called Ripcord.

How does knowing the name affect the credibility of the movie?

Hell, Star Trek you have to go and read a comic to know why Nero was as crazy as he was. Does that ruin the credibility of that movie?

storymodeller
11-26-2009, 11:10 AM
Anyone think it would be fun to create a poll of some of the most common answers? Just an idea.

Trooper13
11-26-2009, 11:34 AM
So really, it's not half-assed storytelling. Nothing is forcing you to go and buy the comics, they aren't needed, they just further the story. The movie functions just fine without having to know why Ripcord is called Ripcord.

How does knowing the name affect the credibility of the movie?


Really? You also need to read the comics to know why the airstrike came early, or why the hell Rex got sent into a building alone, atleast according to you in another movie thread. So yeah, I guess you don't need the comics to explain the story at all. I guess I'm some sort of freak because I expect things to make a little bit of sense. Both those two things are HUGE glaring wtf moments, or atleast they were to me. Like why years go by and Duke never finds out who screwed the pooch on that and why no one hung for it? I just remember every hole I found in RoC you said, oh that was in the comic. That is halfassed stroytelling. Whatever, I'm not going to turn this into another RoC thread, there are plenty of other lame ass things that showed up in all eras of Joe.


-13

Mandingo Rex
11-26-2009, 02:10 PM
Really? You also need to read the comics to know why the airstrike came early, or why the hell Rex got sent into a building alone, atleast according to you in another movie thread. So yeah, I guess you don't need the comics to explain the story at all. I guess I'm some sort of freak because I expect things to make a little bit of sense. Both those two things are HUGE glaring wtf moments, or atleast they were to me. Like why years go by and Duke never finds out who screwed the pooch on that and why no one hung for it? I just remember every hole I found in RoC you said, oh that was in the comic. That is halfassed storytelling. Whatever, I'm not going to turn this into another RoC thread, there are plenty of other lame ass things that showed up in all eras of Joe.


-13

No, I agree with you. There were plenty of "what?!" moments in the film that I just overlooked as bad writing so I didn't fret too much over them, or else my brain may melt down. Plot holes drive me nuts.

Even suspending disbelief, there is a set of "fiction logic" and "in-story physics" that stories usually establish in my head. I accept a lot of plot holes in decent films because they are a suspension of disbelief. But sometimes the movie itself sets a standard of absurdity that you just kick back and say "fuck it, this is just for fun" like the movie Crank. That movie was so bad and absurd that I loved it, the entire thing. It was just nonstop nonsense, but I thoroughly enjoyed it. GI Joe, to me, couldn't decide if it wanted to play the ridiculous card, or the serious card, and set an imbalanced tone throughout the film for me.

And like you, I questioned the logic behind the Ripcord name (and Ripcord being a character I could give two half shits about in the first place, so there's no nostalgia for the character there). It didn't ruin the film for me, but when I started watching the film, I was like, wait, why would a guy named "Ripcord" be in a ground unit? They did say the line about flying, etc, which sort of helped, but then I thought, "but that'd be like a driver being named 'crash dummy'. Is it a joke, because he's an assclown?"

Troynos
11-26-2009, 09:45 PM
And like I said, probably more then 1/2 the people that watched it wouldn't think twice why Rex went in alone.

People "in the know" tend to look at things differently. Because you know how things are really done, when it's not it just stands out more to you.

As an architect, I get that way all the time with different stuff.

Hell, everytime I look at a picture of the PIT it just screams to me "that's not right, not the right size, not the right layout, not the right facilities, there's no way a unit of that size could be housed in that size of building".

But then a remember it's a movie that has to get from Point A to Point Z and has a limited amount of time and words to spend doing that and has to weigh being technically correct and knowing that a large percentage of the viewing audience won't notice the difference or moving the story along in a way that makes sense to most people.

Do you need to know why the air strike came early to understand the RoC story? No. Do you need to know why Rex went into the building alone? No.

It's not necessarily half-assed writing, it's just moving the story along.

You can go into any movie, any book, anything and find sequances that someone "in the know" would look at and go "that's not how it's done". But for the most part the movies aren't made expecting everyone to be "in the know" so some things are glossed over, left out, or done to move the story along.

If it's half-assed writing, then there's a ton of it out there.

teddyboy09
11-26-2009, 10:20 PM
idk if RoC would count since it isn't a popular thing of Joe canon, at least in here. Personally I'm fine with it; it's not like it destroyed anything. It's new, it's modern, it's somewhat refreshing overall.

But the thing I don't really like is how Cobra La turned out. I didn't follow GI Joe much back then, actually, and this was one reason why, lol. That was just too corny. And the hierarchy I thought shows that everyone is led by Cobra Commander. Then it turns out, he answers to Serpentor. THEN IT TURNS OUT, Serpentor answers to Golobulus? I stopped paying attention then and there because well, I was into TMNT more. Haha. And because I wouldn't want to know if Golobulus has a superior and so on, lol.

And the GI Joe animated movie. It's not that I hate it, or strongly dislike...I just like that less than RoC. I may get a lot of hate here but a reason I'm fine with RoC was because at least it didn't have CC as this fat snake uttering the same damn line over and over again, lol. Few things I liked about the animated movie: the theme song and Beachhead.

Also, Dreadnoks. They just looked out of place to me the most. Even when I was a kid I found them weird. Even Spirit or Raptor I tolerated. The Dreadnoks were just...odd.

Troynos
11-26-2009, 10:30 PM
I want to add the Crimson Guard. I hate the figures. Can't stand 'em.

I like the idea of the Siegies, as used in the comics, complete sleeper agents. That has great potential. Just never used right.

dmizrok
11-27-2009, 12:47 AM
Quick Kick.Not a fan.

Mandingo Rex
11-27-2009, 02:20 AM
And like I said, probably more then 1/2 the people that watched it wouldn't think twice why Rex went in alone.

People "in the know" tend to look at things differently. Because you know how things are really done, when it's not it just stands out more to you.

...

But then a remember it's a movie that has to get from Point A to Point Z and has a limited amount of time and words to spend doing that and has to weigh being technically correct and knowing that a large percentage of the viewing audience won't notice the difference or moving the story along in a way that makes sense to most people.

Do you need to know why the air strike came early to understand the RoC story? No. Do you need to know why Rex went into the building alone? No.

It's not necessarily half-assed writing, it's just moving the story along.

You can go into any movie, any book, anything and find sequances that someone "in the know" would look at and go "that's not how it's done". But for the most part the movies aren't made expecting everyone to be "in the know" so some things are glossed over, left out, or done to move the story along.

If it's half-assed writing, then there's a ton of it out there.

Even though I have no "in the know" knowledge of military process other than what I see in tv, film, or the occasional documentary...

... you finally swayed me into overriding my basic expectations of logic and storytelling and believing the film wasn't a terribly written cavernous hole of a plot!

*** game show "win" soundtrack plays ***

It only took 3,420 posts in favor of the film, but you've done it! :)

CrimsonGuard101
11-27-2009, 03:03 AM
Marlane Wayanes to answer this qustion.

ShockVal
11-27-2009, 03:08 AM
I want to hear Snake Eyes talk. Just once I would like him to tell Duke "Hey back the F up off my honey there jarhead".

JoeMama
11-28-2009, 12:17 AM
good example, friend of my roommates came over and was looking at my collection, he used to play with Joes as a kid, and he points at a PTE boat I had displayed with some Joes and goes "I had that boat").


that is funny when that happens. had family over for the holiday, someone was looking at my DTC & ROC Rhino's, were like, "oh, I remember this from when I was a kid... "
was like... ok? not gonna show my dork colors but....

blayze5150
11-28-2009, 12:19 AM
I am not a fan of the new Pit toy.

SGT Long
11-28-2009, 03:16 AM
Well Shang Chi, Master of Kung Fu and his supporting cast appeared in a few issues of Marvel's Action Force comic. In that continuity Shang Chi was the one who taught Quick Kick some of his skills.

Crap! I know somebody'll call me on this but there was an appearence by Duke (Not named, but it was Duke-clear as day) in one of the Spider-man books during Secret Wars 2. Why am I saying Crap? My collection is in storage and have no way to verify which exact Spider-man title or issue. Akk I remember was the Beyonder had turned a building into gold and an unnamed "secret military unit" was directed to dispose of it by Henry Gyrich of X-men fame.