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Nordland
10-21-2009, 07:49 PM
I emailed Hasbro UK if they could confirm if we were getting the POC line in the UK next year as US release dates had been released.
This is the reply i got today......

Thank you for your email.
I can confirm that the Rise of the Cobra toy line was released earlier this year, alongside a large scale marketing campaign. Unfortunately though, consumer demand has not been as anticipated, which obviously impacts retail demand too. As a result, retailers haven't moved through the waves on the range as we would have liked. With regards to the Pursuit of the Cobra toy line, we are yet to confirm if this range will be available in the UK. Please contact us again in February/March when we receive on new range information for 2010.
With reference to the comments you made with regards to the item, these have been noted and will be forwarded to our Marketing Department. We would like to thank you once again for taking the time to write to us as we welcome our customers' comments and suggestions, as they are invaluable for future improvements.

May we thank you for contacting Hasbro and if we can be of any further assistance, either now or in the future, please do not hesitate to contact us again.

Kind Regards,

ASK HASBRO
Hasbro UK Ltd
00800 22427276

IMO this does not sound good. The part about " the large scale marketing campaign" is rubbish. I only saw three commercials for the movie on TV and never saw or heard of a single advert for the toys or comic. This is one of the main reasons why the toys are rotting on the shelves, along with being 8 ( $12 ) a figure when they came out.
Now i may be reading to much into this, but i find it suprising that an unknown emailer (me) would recieve a reply basically stating the toyline has been a dissapointment for them in terms of sales. i would have just expected a reply along the lines of "we are reviewing sales numbers".
My second reason of concern is that they apparently do not know if POC will be released. I would have thought that to get a Feb/March release, plans for shipping and distribution would have to be in motion right now. Maybe they are waiting to see what happens to toy sales after the DVD is released.
Along with the rumour that ROC toys have been cancelled in Greece, this doesn't seem good IMO.
So us UK collectors will just have to wait and see if we have to pay international shipping on top of inflated prices for those Jungle Vipers. GRRRRrrrrrr!! :(

Steelgrave
10-21-2009, 08:10 PM
They're hardly selling in the USA (even with a price drop). It's an American movie & it's not even selling here. What do you expect for other countries?

Goldface
10-21-2009, 08:12 PM
Another nail in the ROC coffin.

I guess the change from A Real American Hero to U.N. Hero didn't pan out to well.So sad.

Goldface
10-21-2009, 08:14 PM
By the way, there's always ebay. It'll be more expensive but it's better than nothing.

Goldface
10-21-2009, 08:47 PM
I guess there's nobody left to defend ROC's honor.

Tracker
10-21-2009, 08:50 PM
there where selling good here until they overload the selves with wave 1&2 and raised the price to $7.99

other waves goes quickly when they pop up

starscream-99
10-21-2009, 09:06 PM
That sucks.

Skyw4rp
10-21-2009, 09:08 PM
We still have alot of Wave 1-3 here in Manila, Wave 4 is just so-so like you can spot a few figs here and there. Well for Wave 5 expect to see 1 set on display.

Jinx723
10-21-2009, 09:28 PM
The problem is that retailers wanted way too much of the ROC line on their shelves. Just because it's a toyline from a summer movie, end of summer at that, doesn't mean it's going to sell like hot cakes. It's doesn't matter if the figures are $5.99 or $9.99 the first two Waves are still overflowing after 3.5 months from their release. People who wanted these already have them, now the stores are stuck with all this product that's not going to move even at $2.99. It's not Hasbro's fault or Paramount's fault. The only ones to blame are the stores, Hasbro makes what the stores' want. Retailers are Hasbro's customers not us. I do hope the same stuff I've been seeing for three months does sell during the holidays.
Pursuit of Cobra have some good stuff coming out but like ROC I'll be getting only what I want. I turned in my Completist membership during Wave 11 of the Modern Era stuff. I just hope that the POC items aren't produced in outrageous quantities like the first two ROC Waves or we're just going to wind up with the same situation all over again. Hasbro seems to want a new Wave out every 6-8 weeks which is cool. New stuff comes out and sells leads to newer stuff. But, like I said produce these in way lower quantities so they sell and retailers order more 'sold out' product that leads to newer product.
One thing Hasbro needs to do is stop doing revision cases. We are now getting cases of twelve for figures. We get 5-6 figures per Wave, get two of each per case and whatever open spot should be for an army building character from the previous Wave. Releasing single characters over and over and over is not going to sell. Look at Destro, Baroness, Ripcord, and Heavy Duty how they clogging pegs (in my area). Hasbro needs to work on how they release their figures.
As for POC (maybe) cancelation for other collectors throughout the world this sucks. Though I'm pretty sure many of us 'Tankers' will give a hand to our overseas brothers out there.

Jeffrozup
10-21-2009, 09:29 PM
There will be plenty of POC toys to go around worldwide .. just be patient and it will all be here soon.

agentmorris
10-21-2009, 09:36 PM
I guess there's nobody left to defend ROC's honor.

No honor to defend, but I liked the movie for what it was, I love most of the toys, but I, like most collectors, have 90% of what I want from it. It is a real shame that they were so grossly overestimated on all fronts.

Bummer...

Some_Gamer_Dude
10-21-2009, 11:39 PM
We seem to have the same problem in Aussieland, personaly I have yet to see a Ice Saber. I believe the problems are as follows:
It wasn't ACTION FORCE. Australia never had it, but GIJOE, even if it's not a country specific term, screams American, thanks to Veitnam 2, I mean Iraq, Anti-American sentiment is large as well as antimilitary sentiment. Action Force would envoke Action Man, which both the UK and Australia had, would would push it.

They ordered too much Wave 1. It was Wolverine again, the retailers overestimated demand. I blame Transformers phenominal success for this personaly. It seems to happen to all the 'toy' movies now.

Australia is confimed to get Wave 3, but they only turn up in hobbyshops. The incompetant retailers won't go near it. Because a line that hasn't been here sense the early 00s, that envokes a nation that alot of people have irrational beefs with and a topic that's realy touchy will totaly do well. >_>

Troynos
10-21-2009, 11:51 PM
Retailers screwed up by overordering too much of the first couple waves. It's got nothing to do with the quality of the product, they just over anticipated the demand.

Toys are a finite market. There's only so many that are going to sell.

Before we "pound the nails in RoCs coffin" lets remember that XMas is coming up and that could have a HUGE impact on sales.

All those parents that weren't buying RoC toys yet may just buy come XMas.

RoC is a LONG way from being dead, sorry to disappoint anyone.

UMAN
10-21-2009, 11:56 PM
Retailers screwed up by overordering too much of the first couple waves. It's got nothing to do with the quality of the product, they just over anticipated the demand.

Toys are a finite market. There's only so many that are going to sell.

Before we "pound the nails in RoCs coffin" lets remember that XMas is coming up and that could have a HUGE impact on sales.

All those parents that weren't buying RoC toys yet may just buy come XMas.

RoC is a LONG way from being dead, sorry to disappoint anyone.

Exactly.

Why is it so hard to maintain a positive outlook? GI Joe isn't going anywhere. I think all the anti-ROC fans are just trying to throw in the final "told you so."

Guys - it ain't happening.

SNAKE EYES
10-21-2009, 11:57 PM
Retailers screwed up by overordering too much of the first couple waves. It's got nothing to do with the quality of the product, they just over anticipated the demand.

Toys are a finite market. There's only so many that are going to sell.

Before we "pound the nails in RoCs coffin" lets remember that XMas is coming up and that could have a HUGE impact on sales.

All those parents that weren't buying RoC toys yet may just buy come XMas.

RoC is a LONG way from being dead, sorry to disappoint anyone.

Well said Troynos


Exactly.

Why is it so hard to maintain a positive outlook? GI Joe isn't going anywhere. I think all the anti-ROC fans are just trying to throw in the final "told you so."

Guys - it ain't happening.

Exactly some people just can't let it go, and any chance they get they come out of the woodwork to bash RoC

The movie made 300 million worldwide the toys are selling and the DVD hasn't even come out yet. In my opinion the DVD release will boost the toy sales. As Troynos pointed out Christmas should also be good for G.I. Joe toy sales.

Shogi
10-22-2009, 12:00 AM
IMO this does not sound good. The part about " the large scale marketing campaign" is rubbish. I only saw three commercials for the movie on TV and never saw or heard of a single advert for the toys or comic. This is one of the main reasons why the toys are rotting on the shelves, along with being 8 ( $12 ) a figure when they came out.

I defense of the campaign, I'll mention this:

I work in Television, notably in the area where we air the commercials (I'm actually paid to watch the commercials) so I see a lot of commercials (on one channel only) That said, I can't tell you how many times someone comes up to me to tell me about this cool new commercial they just saw on TV for the first time ever....yeah, 9 times out of 10 I've seen it 3-4 times a day for two months now. There are also times when a certain commercial is only played on a few channels (This is typically only with local commercials, but some national ones are regional too)

So it's very possible that there was a large scale marketing campaign on TV and you missed the majority of it.

klinton
10-22-2009, 12:03 AM
Aye, I don't have super high hopes of these being widely distributed here in Canada either. I'm fully going to order cases for this set.

paraviper
10-22-2009, 12:05 AM
I hope the stuff sells down during xmas. If it does not we may not be getting poc figures. I will buy alot more poc stuff because it looks more like GI JOE should. I think Roc was an ok movie. I just hated the way the vipers and alot of the joes looked.

SNAKE EYES
10-22-2009, 12:05 AM
Here's the kicker if we get a cartoon here based on Pursuit of Cobra that also airs in the U.K., then you can bet your a$$ that you will see the toys there as well :)

All signs point to the cartoon being PoC related. Why else redesign Beachhead, Recondo, Snowjob, Firefly, etc.

Troynos
10-22-2009, 12:07 AM
In my local town, the Wal-Mart is full of the first two waves. They over ordered. Next town down, about 20 minutes away, that store is filled with the first two waves and the Helix/Flash wave. Tons of 'em. Neither store has the 2-packs. The next town down, another 15 minutes from the 2nd store, they have none of the Helix/Flash wave but they have alot of the 2-packs.

The point is that just because it isn't selling in one store, doesn't mean it's not selling in all stores. Different stores order differently.

It's kind of funny, the 2nd store is the newest store that just recently opened. Would have expected that one to have the latest stuff but it's got the most of the 3 and no latest waves and no 2-packs.

Nordland
10-22-2009, 08:31 AM
All valid comments and i agree with most of them.
I think a huge problem in the UK ( and most of Europe) is it's just been too long since we had Gi Joe toys on the shelves.
Between when ARAH was cancelled ( in 1993? we had a few years extra over the USA) and ROC we only had the 1st wave of Gi Joe Vs Cobra in 2002 which lasted about 6 months. There was no advertising for that and we never got any the cartoons for Valour Vs Venom etc.
Thats a long time for a toyline to be out of the market. So there was no casual toy buyer buying for nostalgia like in the USA. maybe if we'd recieved a limited 25th anniversary release some parents who bought joes as kids may have bought them for their children earlier.
Just for the record i did not like ROC, but never knocked it either. I realy wanted it to do well. I started collecting in 1982 and the thought of Joes being back on the shelves in England blew me away.
Oh well, just have to wait and see. One thing i did realise is Hasbro said they may know about POC in Feb / March. So if POC is released here it probably won't be till next summer.

Jmacq1
10-22-2009, 08:53 AM
Also bear in mind that Hasbro UK operates differently from Hasbro US (or more accurately gets different products). From my understanding, 25A/ME wasn't really sold outside the US and Canada. RoC gave it more international distribution, but with the movie out of theaters those regional offices may well decide not to "re-up" the line and stick with things that have had a stronger/longer lasting presence at retail in those particular countries.

PoC may revert back to being US/Canada only (for the most part). Even an animated series may not change that, unless Sigma 6 was sold overseas (which I can't recall if they were or not).

G.I. Joe isn't going to keep the RoC levels of shelf-space forever. They'll probably get reduced to basically what they had during 25th/ME (maybe a little more) in-between films. Maybe a slight push if there's an animated tie-in series, but we're not going to see RoC levels of distribution again until the sequel.

I would note, however, that the title of this thread is more than a bit misleading. The e-mail doesn't preclude the possibility that PoC will in fact come out in the UK. It just says they don't know for sure yet. This is not unexpected, given that the Holiday shopping season is really only just beginning.

Steelgrave
10-22-2009, 10:09 AM
Why is it so hard to maintain a positive outlook?

Because we've seen this happen before. It's nothing new. We already know the outcome. Seen tons of other toys lines suffer in the exact same way. (2002 MOTU, Indiana Jones)

We know how the economy is.

We know how people spend.

We know the toys these days are all grossly over-priced.

We know that 50 million versions of the same character isn't a good thing for any toy line. (Jungle Attack He-Man, Spin Blade Skeletor)

We know the retailers will blame Hasbro & drop the toy line before they ever blame themselves for over-ordering.

We know Hasbro's case assortments suck ass & need to be fixed. They always ship more peg warmers instead of the hot sellers. (ARC Trooper)

We know that optimism leads to disappointment.

We know that "happy happy joy joy" is from a Ren & Stimpy cartoon & doesn't apply to the real world.

blackman2005
10-22-2009, 10:57 AM
Because we've seen this happen before. It's nothing new. We already know the outcome. Seen tons of other toys lines suffer in the exact same way. (2002 MOTU, Indiana Jones)

We know how the economy is.

We know how people spend.

We know the toys these days are all grossly over-priced.

We know that 50 million versions of the same character isn't a good thing for any toy line. (Jungle Attack He-Man, Spin Blade Skeletor)

We know the retailers will blame Hasbro & drop the toy line before they ever blame themselves for over-ordering.

We know Hasbro's case assortments suck ass & need to be fixed. They always ship more peg warmers instead of the hot sellers. (ARC Trooper)

We know that optimism leads to disappointment.

We know that "happy happy joy joy" is from a Ren & Stimpy cartoon & doesn't apply to the real world.


co-sizzle...

Furthermore, people, parents especially are now less likely to trooper build and even more character build. Hasbro most likely learns from their errors made and provide a wider variety of characters in future assortments for Target and Walmart to buy and for us to enjoy. The Joe universe consist of over 250 possible characters that can be manufactured into figures and yet we are consistently being exposed to Duke, Snake Eyes, Storm Shadow, Zartan, Destro, Scarlet, Ripcord, Cobra Commander and Wild Bills. Parents just aren't to keep buying the same character over again, kids don't buy figures at Target with their own money and collecters aren't taking that great of a liking to the radical change in the product that's being made available. Put that on top of the fact that stores over ordered the first three waves of a movie line that was announced and you have a recipe for disaster. Full pegs with every character that people pick and choose from. Since that assortment of characters is rather disappointing and limited (1-18 maybe?) you have peg-warming. Even if the stock of figures are reduced in price people aren't going to buy what they already have. Hopefully Hasbro gets their act together and focuses on supplying people with variety. The PoC may or may not come as a result of this in the US. The same figures from waves 1-3 are being replaced after they are being purchased which makes it look like its not moving. Its not logical for retailers to allow this to happen again.

alexan2dros
10-22-2009, 11:01 AM
greek hasbro told me they ll have again gi joes from the movie 2. . one month before the movie comes out on cinema.as the rise of cobra next waves 2,3,4,5 they ll come out only if the stores sells..

Zefram
10-22-2009, 11:03 AM
Eight quid a figure?! I mean, maybe you can afford it without having to worry about health care bills, but still, DAYUM!

A GI Joe figure should never cost more than an hour's minimum wage (before or after tax).

Nordland
10-22-2009, 11:39 AM
Most stores are now clearing figures at 4. But to put things into perspective, i think the minimum wage is 5.25 so when they came out after working for 1 1/2 hrs you'd still be just short for a joe.
@ Zefram is that the Doc from Ninja High School in your avatar?

Tracker
10-22-2009, 11:48 AM
Retailers screwed up by overordering too much of the first couple waves. It's got nothing to do with the quality of the product, they just over anticipated the demand.

Toys are a finite market. There's only so many that are going to sell.

Before we "pound the nails in RoCs coffin" lets remember that XMas is coming up and that could have a HUGE impact on sales.

All those parents that weren't buying RoC toys yet may just buy come XMas.

RoC is a LONG way from being dead, sorry to disappoint anyone.


agreed

Tracker
10-22-2009, 01:25 PM
ya know the way i read that it really dosen't say anything about being canceled. just that the product isn't movie as quickly as the wanted

ChaplainAsst
10-22-2009, 01:27 PM
What we are seeing clogging the shelves are the revision waves. That was a dumb move by Hasbro since fans were eagerly awaiting these figures. In the past, revision waves have done well, but they also contained hard to find iconic figures or highly sought after army builders. Not so this time. RoC figures are much more ubiquitous than the 25th line so no need for revisions- just go to Kmart!

Still, these figures WILL sell through during the Xmas buying season, and everyone will eventually be happy.

Irid70
10-22-2009, 01:34 PM
So now this is front paged, and is going to send people into a panic. Those people are going to scream "DEATH OF TEH LINE!! OH NOES! HASBRO SUXXORZ! HATE4EVA!" ad nauseam, without actually noting that all it is is one CSR who can't confirm "if the line will be available in the UK." While it sucks for UK tankers to be uncertain, this is no way says that the line won't come out. Is the line in danger? We don't really know, and this email doesn't clarify that picture at all.

politicoviper
10-22-2009, 01:56 PM
Up here in Canada I see ROC figures at every major retail distributor that has anything to do with toys. Problem is these toys are retailing for 10.99
What's up with that?

Rocky
10-22-2009, 02:54 PM
So now this is front paged, and is going to send people into a panic. Those people are going to scream "DEATH OF TEH LINE!! OH NOES! HASBRO SUXXORZ! HATE4EVA!" ad nauseam, without actually noting that all it is is one CSR who can't confirm "if the line will be available in the UK." While it sucks for UK tankers to be uncertain, this is no way says that the line won't come out. Is the line in danger? We don't really know, and this email doesn't clarify that picture at all.

What he said......... in a page or so we are going to see people screaming the Skys falling!

badmotivator
10-22-2009, 03:08 PM
just give me my 20+ POC scarletts and no one gets hurt...;)

Zefram
10-22-2009, 03:18 PM
Seriously, people.
http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/jump_to_conclusions.jpg

@ Zefram is that the Doc from Ninja High School in your avatar?

Prof. Tomoe from Sailor Moon. :)

Sector_15
10-22-2009, 04:25 PM
Tell you guys I swear the sky is falling :-).

shlappyguy
10-22-2009, 04:50 PM
I feel bad for the UK fans, but I also worry that this means we in the USA may find these really hard to get.

babyjelly
10-22-2009, 04:57 PM
OK, the situation in the UK is a little complicated.

In recent years the main outlets for toys have been:

Argos - a catalogue based company where you order from a catalogue in store. You can't choose (easily) the figure from a wave and the GI Joe section was particularly a problem here.

Tesco/ASDA - ASDA is our Walmart, and carried the line late (getting a hybrid wave 1+2 mix) Tesco only carries the line in some stores. A smaller supermarket, Sainsburys, carried the line from the film, the other aforementioned ones later (by a month or so)

Woolworths - Big chain high street retail shop - went under last year with the credit crunch, but would have in all likelihood carried the line and helped it's profitability.

TRU - carried the line quite well. Had a heavy wave 1 bias though...

-----

The loss of Woolworths has hit the toy market in a major way as TRU/Tesco/ASDA aren't inside town/city centres and Woolies was but has now gone.

-----

We have Star Wars and TF and the other lines, but we also have 10" army figures 'HM Armed Forces' that appear to sell well and are essentially extra competition.

All-in-all, the name GI Joe is too American for the UK market, whereas Action Force would have been better, and for kids the RoC figures just don't look different enough. The toy market had a major shake up during the credit crunch...

I think the PoC will not be carried in the mass market in the UK, but online and specialist stores will.

The Fridge
10-22-2009, 05:07 PM
If it makes you feel any better we have not seen any hint of POC in the States either. The first couple of waves of Hasbro's Star Wars lines for 2010 have been available for pre-order for awhile, but when I sent BBTS an email asking if they knew anything about POC this was their response:
(Email)
Subject: G.I. Joe Question
With the last wave of G.I. Joe: Rise of Cobra figures for 2009 in stock now, I was just curious as to when we might see a pre-order for the next waves of Pursuit of Cobra figures that are set to be released in early 2010 (or sooner hopefully)? Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks guys, and keep up the great work! BBTS makes being a collector fun

(Response)
Hi,

We will post any information we get as soon as we get solicited by our suppliers.
Thanks!
Rita
Customer Service Specialist
www.BigBadToyStore.com (http://www.BigBadToyStore.com)


Seeing as how these were set for release in January, I would have thought that Hasbro would have "solicited" their major retailers with items slotted to be available in 2 and 1/2 months. Especially since they have already distributed the last wave for this year. Oh well, I waited from 1989 until 2007 for a decent Joe, I guess I can hold out a little longer...

Malcolm
10-22-2009, 06:01 PM
This will happen in Australia too... the demand for the figures is so low due to price, the figures go for $7-8USD in america and $17AUD in Australia, even when the AUD is about .90c to the USD, to the regular parent, $17 can go along way. The figures have droped in price now down to $10AUD in kmarts which is just over 40%, which goes to show just how much of a mark up there was, sales wouldn't of had such a problem if they were at the original $10AUD but either the stores are looking at discontinuing the figures, or they are simply tryign to clear the shelves as they ren't even up to selling wave 3 yet.

Thankfully with my credit card and my brother over int he states, i can buy direct fromt eh hasbro website, making each figure after psotage come to about $13 AUD. But its dissapointing as a colelctor / customiser not being able to purchase them at such a cheap price all the time.

Either the retailers or Hasbro, have simply over priced them too much.

The ROC mobile Pit came to $250, which is half the cost of a play station 3 over here.

Thankfully at some stores that has dropped to $100


The issue with toy lines is to target their demografic they need to keep an ongoing appeal to the children to keep the sales on going, which is why star wars figures with the new clone wars figures, continue to sell, as they have a weekly cartoon.

And the toys that have such co-exhisting media, clearly show the real way to advertise to sell their merchandise.

joes were taken off the market twice in Australia, and it will easily happena gain, with out a co-exhisting tv show or some other way to keep children's interests ongoing.

Hasbro need to investigate new media's and ways to capture their audience to sell more stock. it has nothing in relation to the figures being released, although some of the re-paints and some of the viper figures, kinda resmble walking bits of poo. which is why there is so many left on the shelves.

crackus
10-22-2009, 06:35 PM
sigh....

prowl
10-22-2009, 07:08 PM
They're hardly selling in the USA (even with a price drop). It's an American movie & it's not even selling here. What do you expect for other countries?

Well hell, I never even liked the movie that much to be honest (though I don't complain), and I never cared much for the figures, either... and I still bought a ton of them! Say what you will about those who collect the ROC line, but even with collector's random impulse buying, it's not enough to keep the line going? Just what the hell did Hasbro project sales to be?!?! Here in Canada the figures seem to be selling reasonably well, but still... I just don't get it.

SolidSnakeEyes1
10-22-2009, 07:48 PM
The Rise of Cobra toys SUCK. If its not broke dont fix it. Stick with The Real American Hero Line. Sky Striker, USS FLagg, Dragon Fly the stuff us fans want.

Rulz
10-22-2009, 08:15 PM
sigh....

keep the faith bro :)

guess this is what will happen in Indonesia too..
we haven't got any new wave either,
the retailer here just told me few days ago when I asked about the new wave to put in stock, they plan to delay the new toy line
until they put the old stock in a Christmas sale..

and if its not goes well in sales even after it got discounts,
maybe they won't stock any Joe's anymore..

miscreant
10-22-2009, 08:32 PM
... along with being 8 ( $12 ) a figure when they came out.

My second reason of concern is that they apparently do not know if POC will be released. I would have thought that to get a Feb/March release, plans for shipping and distribution would have to be in motion right now... :(


Firstly, the $1 = 1 GBP 'Exchange rate' is nothing new. ROC toys are overpriced, but they're overpriced in the US to start with.

Secondly, it's been suggested in the past that Hasbro's international divisions basically have to take what they're offered once demand in the US is satisfied.

Sales figures for ROC in the UK are definitely on the weak side, this doesn't necessarily mean Hasbro UK will be skipping POC full stop, they may simply not know what they will be offered.

Whatever Hasbro UK do end up offering to retailers, you can be fairly sure however that retail support is unlikely to be strong... and so G.I.Joe is likely to return to the doldrum type situation that has characterized it in the UK for quite some time.





The Rise of Cobra toys SUCK. If its not broke dont fix it. Stick with The Real American Hero Line. Sky Striker, USS FLagg, Dragon Fly the stuff us fans want.

12 posts in 13 months. I wonder if the other 11 are of this quality?

245am
10-22-2009, 08:57 PM
this is payback for the war of 1812. Don't f with our white house.

KALASH69
10-22-2009, 09:00 PM
Shit I hope they just drop production of ROC and POC stuff and go back to ME and RESO figures already. Im sick of all this spin off crap.

The ME and Reso stuff was selling fine, I don't see why they cant get on the ball and get a POC or Reso cartoon on the air ala clone wars style.

Kids, collectors, and non-collectors alike love that clone wars stuff. Damn I even like the clone wars stuff.

sunicron
10-22-2009, 09:58 PM
Well if they would quit repainting every DAMN F'N Vehicle and put out crap like they do they would sell through this stuff but yet again we have more freaking repaints of vehicles that are already released before and they wonder why they do not sell because we already have 10 different kinds of the same thing already...WAKE UP HASBRO THE NEW COOL STUFF WILL SELL BUT NOT IF ITS THE 4,000th REPAINT OF A PREVIOUSLY RELEASED ITEM!!!!!!!!!!!!

darthdoug
10-22-2009, 10:10 PM
Wave 1-3 are everywhere. Never saw Wave 4 yet. I bet they cancel some future waves in the US too. The store pegs are being "Indiana Jones'd" as we speak!

Too bad.

hurricane
10-22-2009, 10:45 PM
uh I guess they should bring back the 25th/modern figures!

at least mix them in!

Derek2783
10-22-2009, 11:44 PM
Shit I hope they just drop production of ROC and POC stuff and go back to ME and RESO figures already. Im sick of all this spin off crap.

The ME and Reso stuff was selling fine, I don't see why they cant get on the ball and get a POC or Reso cartoon on the air ala clone wars style.

Kids, collectors, and non-collectors alike love that clone wars stuff. Damn I even like the clone wars stuff.

Frankly, PoC looks to be as quality -if not better- than the reso stuff we got. I agree with most of the RoC stuff, as that's mostly bland and boring, but PoC looks like a fine torch-bearer for the new Joe.

lardman
10-23-2009, 05:07 AM
My 2p's worth:

The line has to appeal to children, as realistically that's where the majority of sales happen (really we "collectors" are not a very large demographic).

Therefore, they are going to have to produce a really cool movie, children's cartoons would help as would comics, but basically get kids wanting the figures.

I don't know if we have any data on the UK film viewing figures, it's probably buried somewhere in the forum, but my feeling was that it didn't go down so well (otherwise I can't imagine how my wife and I could end up sitting in a showing on opening weekend Sunday with no-one else in the cinema).

In fact I'd be interested to know if the viewing figures were driven by those of us who remember Action Force/GI Joe from our childhoods (and from talking to my friends, even back then it wasn't everyone, most people I talk to completely missed Action Force and just had Transformers) or driven by children wanting to go and see the film.

I imagine it's the former.

If we get POC over here (the film), I imagine we'll get at least some figures, but I imagine ordered in far fewer numbers, and probably not available beforehand either. Doesn't make sense to have the movie though and no figures.

Grippen
10-23-2009, 07:47 AM
GI joe in Europe is pretty much dead. I was having some hope with the movie but its gone. All they did was having some toys (wave 1 and/or wave 2) in shelves during the movie and kept the same waves up until now. No even ToysRus has anything new. Totally sucks. All the toys we see here have to be related to movies and or cartoons otherwise they won't have them. The only toys which receive some news from time to time are the Chap Mei ones probably because they are cheap as hell. I'm sure that they get more then 50% on each set they sell.

Sorry to say this but I saw it from the ROC toys. They cannot compete with the prices from chap mei :(

Jmacq1
10-23-2009, 08:51 AM
Frankly, PoC looks to be as quality -if not better- than the reso stuff we got. I agree with most of the RoC stuff, as that's mostly bland and boring, but PoC looks like a fine torch-bearer for the new Joe.

Yeah, that's what I really don't get AT ALL. The folks that are decrying PoC and still begging for vintage remakes or Resolute only.

Seriously, I look at Jungle (Night) Viper or City Strike Beachhead or City Strike Firefly and Snow Job and even Recondo and Jungle Duke and I see some of the best-looking figures Hasbro has EVER done, and even if some of them are "rehashes" in many cases they're different enough looking that they could easily be used as different characters, or such a great update that it's hard to imagine people being that upset about it.

Even among the more recognizable "rehashed" figures a lot of the designs were great for "new" or "environment specific" versions of characters. Why shouldn't we have an Arctic Destro or Cobra Commander?

I just don't "get" this vocal segment of the fandom that seems to want G.I. Joe to be stuck in the 80's forever, or only following the "modernization" of a single hour long cartoon forevermore. Yeah, I understand the nostalgia factor, but do we really need ME Clean-Sweep before we get City Strike Beachhead?

Of course, the other complaint I don't quite hearken to is the "repaint madness" complaints. If you include every exclusive then sure Hasbro repaints a lot of stuff. If you include only the "main line" from the beginning of the 25A through to RoC, it's not nearly as much as folks seem to make out (particularly among the vehicles). We sure as heck aren't on our "4000th" repaint of ANYTHING. Beyond that repaints and "rehashes" are clearly and irrefutably part of the action figure business now, and have been for years. Expecting Hasbro to stop repainting and rehashing is like expecting Microsoft to stop making new versions of Windows every few years.

babyjelly
10-23-2009, 09:05 AM
My 2p's worth:

The line has to appeal to children, as realistically that's where the majority of sales happen (really we "collectors" are not a very large demographic).

Therefore, they are going to have to produce a really cool movie, children's cartoons would help as would comics, but basically get kids wanting the figures.

I don't know if we have any data on the UK film viewing figures, it's probably buried somewhere in the forum, but my feeling was that it didn't go down so well (otherwise I can't imagine how my wife and I could end up sitting in a showing on opening weekend Sunday with no-one else in the cinema).

In fact I'd be interested to know if the viewing figures were driven by those of us who remember Action Force/GI Joe from our childhoods (and from talking to my friends, even back then it wasn't everyone, most people I talk to completely missed Action Force and just had Transformers) or driven by children wanting to go and see the film.

I imagine it's the former.

If we get POC over here (the film), I imagine we'll get at least some figures, but I imagine ordered in far fewer numbers, and probably not available beforehand either. Doesn't make sense to have the movie though and no figures.

Firstly POC = Pursuit of Cobra, and it's the name of the 2010 toy line, not a new film.

Rise of Cobra (the movie) opened at number 2 here and fell away quickly. The UK does boast the only monthly comic featuring the RoC universe and the lastest issue features Kev Hopgood who was the main artist from the old Marvel UK Action Force days. The first couple of issues seemed to sell well with kids.

The other issue that might save POC in the UK is that really Hasbro don't have a lot of other lines - after Star Wars and TF, there's the Iron Man movie and Spiderman ranges. MU isn't in the UK other than in specialist shops.

The major shops bought TONS of Star Trek figures and these haven't shifted at all - easily the biggest flop of the toy year, so Hasbro may have some hope

geordieade
10-23-2009, 09:10 AM
In the Uk we dont get a quarter f the Gi Joe merchandise the USA gets we are the poorer cousins it will end up I think Hasbro scraping Gi Joe all together soon if it is not paying and it will be there own fault.Then what will we all do if it all ends ?

Troynos
10-23-2009, 09:17 AM
There's a monthly RoC comic series?

Why don't we get it in the States? Not that I want it to replace IDWs, but no reason can't have both.

plague
10-23-2009, 10:37 AM
is this only uk or are us americans not going to see poc either?

Troynos
10-23-2009, 10:42 AM
is this only uk or are us americans not going to see poc either?

UK only. And there's no confimation that they won't, just that the 1 CSR that was talked to didn't think they were.

babyjelly
10-23-2009, 11:18 AM
Yes - it's by Panini comics. I'll post some pics over the w/e. Art and content less adult than the IDW stuff, and it's a bit shallow (some will say just like the film LOL) but it's a nice throwback to the old Action Force Marvel comic and I'm sure a lot of you will prefer it to the film.

In the interests of copyright, I'll post a couple of sample pages by way of a review.

geordieade
10-23-2009, 11:27 AM
Its a good comic free badges , laser bow , pencil case stories by British writers and illustrators issue no 4 to come out soon

CTGLinks
10-23-2009, 11:30 AM
Funny that the 25th line at $4.99 was one of the best selling toys in 2008, and since the price increase all action figure lines sales pretty much suck.

Here's a clue to fix your problem - lower the damn price!

I swear I have no idea how companies become as huge as Hasbro or Mattel with idiotic decisions, lack of passion, and lack of understanding regarding their own product and licenses.

plague
10-23-2009, 11:40 AM
is poc still planned for american release?

Snow_Serpent
10-23-2009, 11:45 AM
is poc still planned for american release?

I don't think there's any reason to think that we won't see POC at retail as planned, however retailers may be wary if the price cuts/holiday season don't clearthe backlog of the (underperforming) ROC figures/vehicles.

okskeletor
10-23-2009, 01:48 PM
IMO, the ROC toy design was lacking quality and design at best. I would have purchased more if they were actually worth purchasing. For example the neo-viper that looks like something from an alien movie. Not something I would search store to store for.

stad
10-23-2009, 03:35 PM
UK only. And there's no confimation that they won't, just that the 1 CSR that was talked to didn't think they were.

While this is true, if you've seen Hasbro answers before, this kind of answer generally means you are not going to see them. Sorry, but that's the reality of the business, and what that non-answer means for you.

And while that doesn't necessarily mean anything as far as the US market goes, it is not a good precursor.

TYPHUS
10-24-2009, 08:58 AM
im not surprised at this possible cancellation,the UK has always suffered toy-wise with over-ordered first waves,then cancellation of later waves due to "poor sales",but theres no way thats gonna stop me getting my hands on that awesome zartan figure!!!! i may even get two,one to display with my other zartans n one for customising!!!!!

samantha
10-24-2009, 08:59 AM
Is it that bad in the UK, Toy wise that is?

TYPHUS
10-25-2009, 12:52 PM
theres a pretty big divide between the UK/europe and the US/asia,we have the same problems with figure to case ratio except we get less in the first place,the local TRU gave up shelf space about two or three feet wide by six feet high for ROC product,and that space is choked with the "common figures". i bought my ROC zartan online as i just couldnt find one anywhere else!!we have no major toy retailers in this country except for TRU and they are fairly thinly spread out so its kinda a mission just to get a common figure,even if you live in the cities (unless your lucky enough to have a specialist toy store).for years i felt like a freak because i was into gi joe n star wars whilst everyone else "grew up" it wasnt until a couple opened a comic shop in a local town and i started buying tomarts n lees action figure magazines that i realised there was a whole massive community of people just like me out there,and a WHOLE load of gi joe figures and vehicles that i had never seen before!!!thankfully the internet has made it possible to get our fix from overseas now!!!!!

MarVell
10-25-2009, 05:55 PM
It's not that bad, especially if you live in a big city like London. You can find the ROC figures at comic-book stores (e.g. Forbidden Planet), toy stores (e.g. Toys R Us), department stores (e.g. Harrods) and at super-markets (e.g. Sainsburys and Asda). Then there are UK websites like play.com and StarActionFigures.

I've found the ROC Zartan you mentioned in shops on many occasions.

TYPHUS
10-25-2009, 06:57 PM
to be fair you just pretty much reinforced what i said,the difference is your in the capital, and im not, i did mention that i got my zartan from the net,however if there was no internet i would have struggled to find one unless i made a journey of an hour to liverpool,birmingham,or manchester...and would you make that journey with no guarantee you would get what you wanted??

MarVell
10-25-2009, 07:19 PM
You wrote about a US / Europe divide, not a UK big city / countryside divide. I'm pretty sure that people living in small towns in the United States find it pretty difficult to find all the GI Joe toys they want too unless they travel to a bigger city or order online.

paraviper
10-25-2009, 08:13 PM
You wrote about a US / Europe divide, not a UK big city / countryside divide. I'm pretty sure that people living in small towns in the United States find it pretty difficult to find all the GI Joe toys they want too unless they travel to a bigger city or order online.

That is true for the most part. Although sometimes it's worse being in or near a big city because to many others will buy up the good figures.

TYPHUS
10-25-2009, 08:23 PM
You wrote about a US / Europe divide, not a UK big city / countryside divide. I'm pretty sure that people living in small towns in the United States find it pretty difficult to find all the GI Joe toys they want too unless they travel to a bigger city or order online.

fair point,i stand corrected however historically certainly in terms of gi joe we have never had the same scope of product as the US, for example the TRU exclusives,which seem confined to US branches alone... hence my saying theres a US/UK divide....but i'll be hitting TRU on friday so if i find the bench-press figure or any of the other exclusives there il be back on here taking that comment back.

dj7000
10-25-2009, 09:11 PM
The problem is that retailers wanted way too much of the ROC line on their shelves. Just because it's a toyline from a summer movie, end of summer at that, doesn't mean it's going to sell like hot cakes. It's doesn't matter if the figures are $5.99 or $9.99 the first two Waves are still overflowing after 3.5 months from their release. People who wanted these already have them, now the stores are stuck with all this product that's not going to move even at $2.99. It's not Hasbro's fault or Paramount's fault. The only ones to blame are the stores, Hasbro makes what the stores' want. Retailers are Hasbro's customers not us. I do hope the same shit I've been seeing for three months does sell during the holidays.
Pursuit of Cobra have some good stuff coming out but like ROC I'll be getting only what I want. I turned in my Completist membership during Wave 11 of the Modern Era stuff. I just hope that the POC items aren't produced in outrageous quantities like the first two ROC Waves or we're just going to wind up with the same situation all over again. Hasbro seems to want a new Wave out every 6-8 weeks which is cool. New stuff comes out and sells leads to newer stuff. But, like I said produce these in way lower quantities so they sell and retailers order more 'sold out' product that leads to newer product.
One thing Hasbro needs to do is stop doing revision cases. We are now getting cases of twelve for figures. We get 5-6 figures per Wave, get two of each per case and whatever open spot should be for an army building character from the previous Wave. Releasing single characters over and over and over is not going to sell. Look at Destro, Baroness, Ripcord, and Heavy Duty how they clogging pegs (in my area). Hasbro needs to work on how they release their figures.
As for POC (maybe) cancelation for other collectors throughout the world this sucks. Though I'm pretty sure many of us 'Tankers' will give a hand to our overseas brothers out there.

agreed. Too much of the same stuff on the shelf

SNAKE_EYES1975
10-25-2009, 10:42 PM
The problem is that retailers wanted way too much of the ROC line on their shelves. Just because it's a toyline from a summer movie, end of summer at that, doesn't mean it's going to sell like hot cakes. It's doesn't matter if the figures are $5.99 or $9.99 the first two Waves are still overflowing after 3.5 months from their release. People who wanted these already have them, now the stores are stuck with all this product that's not going to move even at $2.99. It's not Hasbro's fault or Paramount's fault. The only ones to blame are the stores, Hasbro makes what the stores' want. Retailers are Hasbro's customers not us. I do hope the same shit I've been seeing for three months does sell during the holidays.
Pursuit of Cobra have some good stuff coming out but like ROC I'll be getting only what I want. I turned in my Completist membership during Wave 11 of the Modern Era stuff. I just hope that the POC items aren't produced in outrageous quantities like the first two ROC Waves or we're just going to wind up with the same situation all over again. Hasbro seems to want a new Wave out every 6-8 weeks which is cool. New stuff comes out and sells leads to newer stuff. But, like I said produce these in way lower quantities so they sell and retailers order more 'sold out' product that leads to newer product.
One thing Hasbro needs to do is stop doing revision cases. We are now getting cases of twelve for figures. We get 5-6 figures per Wave, get two of each per case and whatever open spot should be for an army building character from the previous Wave. Releasing single characters over and over and over is not going to sell. Look at Destro, Baroness, Ripcord, and Heavy Duty how they clogging pegs (in my area). Hasbro needs to work on how they release their figures.
As for POC (maybe) cancelation for other collectors throughout the world this sucks. Though I'm pretty sure many of us 'Tankers' will give a hand to our overseas brothers out there.

I agree with most of what you said, except that this is the retailers fault. I find alot of fault in that.
Hasbro, as a company, as large as it is, and as successful as it was in the past has dropped the ball on one of the biggest aspects to toy/collectable manufacture, and that is PRODUCTION.
We seen it with the 25th line. when all of us, and a few kids bought everything on the shelf from the 25th line, They ramped up production. When they did finally catch up with demand, they were producingfigures from the start of the line when we were LOOKING for figs from a year later (Remember when we were looking for BATS and all you would see was Duke, Destro, ETC?).
This is Hasbros fault ALL THE WAY. Its the same as a car company producing a luxury car for everyone in America. Not everyone wants it, not everyone will buy it. Hasbro has done this repeatedly since the start of the 25th line, and they STILL have not learned.
Is it safe to say that Hasbro could have cut production by 50% on the first wave, and everybody thats buying this stuff would have had what they wanted?? Of course it is. Hasbro cant even figure out they have a quality curve unique to themselves: IE, the first waves are NEVER the best stuff they put out.
No, the retail stores just see that "G.I.JOE" is selling big the week the movie comes out, and they order tons of it, Like I said before, Like a Crackhead with money. The retail stores dont know about "waves" and what figs are better sellers. So its the retail stores that are screwed because of Hasbro's production mistakes once again.
It also comes down to price point. Alot of this stuff from the first wave is CRAP for the money. I mean..look at it...Is THAT new Night raven REALLLY worth $40? Yes, times have changed, but the original night raven came in a huge box, and there was a massive marketing champaign tied into a daily TV show, and even with the inflation of the Dollar (Or deflation however you like to put it) the original still cost less. and as a kid, OR a parent you would feel that the massive box gave a sense of value. The new night raven box is very small, and yes it has electronics, but that stuff costs Literal pennys these days. Back in the day, when you pulled out the Night Raven and assembled it, YOU AND YOUR PARENTS would be impressed. I have shown my New Raven to a few buddys that grew up with Joe and not a SINGLE one was impressed, and all say "not as cool as the OG" No lever for retracting landing gear?!?! the wheels are solid plastic?!?! who cares if it makes noise and shoots a missile if the mechanism for it is cheap and sloppy.
Price point 2, the smaller vehicles that are clogging shelfs are simply way overpriced for what you get, and I think kids AND parents see that.
Another huge point is researching the demographic. its blatantly obvious Hasbro did none of this type of work to find out that not EVERY kid in the world needed 3 Duke figures. Who in the HELL is going to buy a 70$ "walking talking" doll?!?!? not in these days, You would have thought they learned that with Sigma 6 Power strike Duke, STILL seen today on the clearance rack at your local TRU.
I would not be suprised to see future waves of figures halted as well. There is SO much product out right at this moment, the only thing thats will move it all is Christmas, and in this economy there STILL may be some left on the pegs after the holidays if Hasbro and retailers did not put a single figure on the shelf again until Dec 25th.
The other post about Hasbro up 8% or whatever, was simply a bump from the retailers buying all this stuff. Now its not moving. Expect Hasbro to take a serious ROC lumping in sales next quarter, from not being able to put new product on the shelfs.
This week was the week that can be remembered as the time ROC STARTED to die. When some seen the bump Hasbro reported I KNEW what that was from. Now there will be NO more bumps, The next movie is too far away, and when Hasbro reports LOSSES next quarter, the ROC line will be severly scaled back, or scratched, and it MAY even influence Hasbro's, or another finacier's willingness to dish out capitol on another movie. The movie and the toys were a JOINT venture. at this time, in this economy, if a product line is in the red and out of the black there is no wiggle room...This Industry is the same as any, and I know how the corporate world works. I would bet you that right now, Hasbro Execs, are sitting at tables right now deciding if they are scaling back or scratching the line. POC is probably gone. And they are probably kicking themselves in the asses and heads for this massive production fiasco.

Shin Densetsu
10-26-2009, 12:28 AM
Price point 2, the smaller vehicles that are clogging shelfs are simply way overpriced for what you get, and I think kids AND parents see that.Definitely. The only alphas that are worth it in my opinion are the Skysweeper Jet, Snarler Cycle,, and SHARC.
Another huge point is researching the demographic. its blatantly obvious Hasbro did none of this type of work to find out that not EVERY kid in the world needed 3 Duke figures. Who in the HELL is going to buy a 70$ "walking talking" doll?!?!?Agreed
You would have thought they learned that with Sigma 6 Power strike Duke, STILL seen today on the clearance rack at your local TRU.That Duke was actually pretty cool, some of the better Sigma 6 figures, like the paratroopers were pretty expensive, but nothing compared to the price of the electronic accelerator Duke.
This Industry is the same as any, and I know how the corporate world works. I would bet you that right now, Hasbro Execs, are sitting at tables right now deciding if they are scaling back or scratching the line. POC is probably gone. And they are probably kicking themselves in the asses and heads for this massive production fiasco.In my opinion, I think they should have stuck to what worked instead of going for the gimmicked out items aimed at kids, which isn't selling. The Battle Rollers, FABS, 12" electronic ninjas and huge delta 6 Duke amongst others did not sell. What was their main selling point? Gimmicks. Kids these days tend to have shorter attention spans, another reason Hasbro mention in the past with regards to not having vehicles unassembled in the box like the ARAH vehicles. Now we saw the return of partially unassembled vehicles last year with the Tiger Rat and Python Conquest. The toy industry has tried to capture kids attention away from video games and back to toys with electronic gimmicks and other one shot wonders.

Is it the right thing to do? In my opinion, no. One trick ponies are not the way to go for the toy industry. Why has Lego lasted so long? It's because despite how many themes it goes through, the formula is still the same; you still build stuff. Sure electronics have come in some of the sets, but not in a way where the entire line follows same route.

With Rise of Cobra you have kiddy items that retain attention for just a short while. It's a massive waste of petroleum. The Night Raven doesn't have much to stir the imagination of a child. Oh it fires missles out of it's engines, has landing gears that don't roll, and shotgun action in addition to electronic voice where you can't even understand what the hell the pilot is saying.

From what I've experienced at nearly every store I've walked into is that NONE of the kiddy items, such as the role play swords, FABs, flashlights, wrist launchers, gijoe keypad faux cell phones, MARS laptops, huge giant electronic Dukes, and other numerous items, have sold much. I've seen the PIT actually move compared to those items. The Alpha vehicles don't sell, the Night Raven sometimes sells, and out of all, the bravo vehicles and target deluxe sets sold best. Hell the Target RHINO, which costs nearly 2X the msrp when sold during the DTC line sells better here than the alphas and Night Raven, and that was BEFORE the sale when it went for $40.

The single figures sell the best here, are replenished often but you still see full pegs a lot.

So back to my point of going with what worked. The best route would have been to go the Star Wars route; have 1 line for Modern Era(Legacy), and 1 line for Rise of Cobra(Clone Wars), yet sell them simultaneously.

By postponing the return of Modern Era to focus on Rise of Cobra, IMHO Hasbro missed out on a lot of potential sales. It's clear to me that single figures have sold the best out of all Rise of Cobra toys. Given the amount on shelves now it is also clear to me that both Modern Era and ROC lines could have coincided on shelves easily. Eliminate the kiddified items and retain vehicles and figures. The figures sell the best and kids want vehicles for their figures. In that respect both are like mutual allies, in that if you get one, you probably want the other.

No doubt Hasbro hated seeing a waste of petroleum that hasn't netted any sales, it doesn't help that the cost of petro has been higher in recent years.

dj7000
10-26-2009, 07:45 AM
Hasbro had plenty of time to have a spinoff cartoon ready that would help push this movie stuff. It obviously has been poorly thought out. Resolute shoulda been saved for dvd only and a ROC prequel cartoon shoulda been done. Air ROc in August then Air the ROC spinoff in october just in time for the DVD release. Release 3 dvd's Resolute, roc, and roc prequel cartoon. Jan launch new season of the Joe cartoon titles POC...sell them toys

part 2
10-26-2009, 02:33 PM
what WOULD be nice if *pray to god it don't come to this * they aren't released over here is if the tankers in the us do a shop type thing
pay retail plus postage and send it over
so if it cost $7 pay that plus like what $4 postage if its in an envelope?
also i think we just got wave 2? (pp snake eyes reactive impact armour duke ice vipers)

TYPHUS
10-28-2009, 07:47 PM
what WOULD be nice if *pray to god it don't come to this * they aren't released over here is if the tankers in the us do a shop type thing
pay retail plus postage and send it over
so if it cost $7 pay that plus like what $4 postage if its in an envelope?
also i think we just got wave 2? (pp snake eyes reactive impact armour duke ice vipers)

nice idea,i like it a lot its a good way to help us UK tankers out,and increase the already superb sense of community that exists on here!!!

payres
10-30-2009, 09:22 AM
There is some UK joy: in the past two days I've bought Pit Commando, Eel & Flash; seen Hawk, Crimson Neo Viper & Helix, seen some more wave 2 Alphas and bought a Dragonhawk & Crimson Hydra all from 2 Entertainers in SW London. Finally some new stuff !

JokerFC
10-30-2009, 12:40 PM
1st post.... may as well be about this situation.I love the ROC stuff but it just didnt sell here in Ireland either and Smyths didnt get in half the stuff advertised.

everything is half off here now but selection is very limited.thankfully I have a few friends stateside who help me out

The Corps! has had a stranglehold on the military toys here since the 90s and it doesnt look like its gonna stop......which sucks.