ROC Cobra Commander / Movie Question

[80sBabyFTW]

From a newbie ... so please don't bite my head off if this has been answered before. LOL

I'm re-integrating myself with the GI Joe fandom and mythos, long removed since childhood ... and the reason for it is the release and anticipation for the new movie, along with the new toys I found on the 4th (I couldn't help getting some "American Heroes" on independence day, haha) ... and with so I have two questions for you all. BTW, I was reccommended to this site because I heard it was the best source for Joe news, and conversation among true enthusiasts. Anyway, here goes ...

1) Is there two different versions of the Cobra Commander figure? I got Cobra Commander without the breathing tubes and there are two holes in his chest. Is this a production error of this figure, because I heard there might be a version with the ventilation tubes. Or was the character re-designed at the last minute to not have them, cause even the accompanying picture of the character on the card doesn't have the tubes either. If someone could answer this it would be GREATLY appreciated.

2) Is the GI Joe team in the film recognized as being an American military service fighting force? Reason I ask is because I heard initial they were going to be recognized as being more "global" I guess in the studio's effort to be more pc to foreign audiences, but I heard the fans response was that of a feeling of being alienated and that the studio might've changed it back to recognizing its strong origin roots as an American mythology and American fighting force.

[Troynos]

Nope, Joe is global. The name G.I. Joe is american and based on the american use of that term, same as the RAH name origin.

[CrimsonGuard101]

Check this tread for your 1st question: http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-joe-real-american-hero-modern-toys/45689-roc-cobra-commander.html

2) They are a world peace keeping force like a UN related/concept from the colors of the unifrms, lack of american flag logos, a single ROC logo for the entire team and the various nations represented on the team.

[80sBabyFTW]

First of all thanks for the help from the people who have answered.


2) They are a world peace keeping force like a UN related/concept from the colors of the unifrms, lack of american flag logos, a single ROC logo for the entire team and the various nations represented on the team.
Oh ok, this makes sense. Is there any other nationalities besides the American personalities on the team? And aren't the main members and/or leader Americans themselves? Ex: Hawk, Duke, Snake Eyes, etc ?


Which do you prefer a U.N. concept of an elite team from all nations or the concept of the GI Joes being a branch of service rooted in the American system?

[CrimsonGuard101]

I see em as a break off segement from the original GI JOE team that is responsible for direct world conflicts with MARS now since that is kinda of what the movie is basing everything on. Just in my joe world this is not the beginging of Cobra but the resurgence years after Resolute went down. All of the best from around the world join up to fight and they report to no govenerment, only fudning is provided to them by the world governemts like the old PC game Xcom :) they have to keep the world safe and happy or no more moneies...

Gotta find a happy place for all of this stuff in my book...

[Goldface]

These are FAKE Joes from the ones you remember back when they used to be known as A REAL AMERICAN HERO.

[80sBabyFTW]

See the reason I don't like the UN concept as much is that because the character and personality of the team seems rooted more so in American culture than it would anywhere else without feeling SIGNIFICANTLY different and more un-GI JOE.

And once again what are the characters on the Joe team in the movie that aren't Americans?

[Goldface]

See the reason I don't like the UN concept as much is that because the character and personality of the team seems rooted more so in American culture than it would anywhere else without feeling SIGNIFICANTLY different and more un-GI JOE.

And once again what are the characters on the Joe team in the movie that aren't Americans?

Breaker- Moroccan/French
Heavy Duty- British
Cover Girl- German
Snake-Eyes- French(not sure if finalized)
Scarlett- Australian(not sure if finalized)

[80sBabyFTW]

Breaker- Moroccan/French
Heavy Duty- British
Cover Girl- German
Snake-Eyes- French(not sure if finalized)
Scarlett- Australian(not sure if finalized)
You can't be serious ... Snake Eyes isn't American? Heavy Duty? Either. Is there a source for any of this anywhere? If Snake Eyes isn't American, I'm gonna be SUPER pissed.

[CrimsonGuard101]

You can hear the accent in Heavy Duties voice in the van scene when tells Marlane before falls out of the van that the suits were expesnive.

He gets a british accent and the Baroness is more american and no accent like she used to have then the Joes LOL odd...

[Goldface]

You can't be serious ... Snake Eyes isn't American? Heavy Duty? Either. Is there a source for any of this anywhere? If Snake Eyes isn't American, I'm gonna be SUPER pissed.

The leaked script. Hawk was British in that and then at the Joecon or the SDComicCon(forgot which one) the Joe movie panel annouced that he was going to be American.
The others(like Snake-eyes) haven't been refuted yet.

[gunslingercbr]

Is there a source for any of this anywhere? If Snake Eyes isn't American, I'm gonna be SUPER pissed.
that was all just from the first draft of the script before the movie actors were cast, and was just the idea of an international team put to paper which obviously hasn't been used in the film to the same extent. but the complainers don't care much about reason and logic and aren't concerned about reciting old info as long as it serves their purpose.

[Goldface]

that was all just from the first draft of the script before the movie actors were cast, and was just the idea of an international team put to paper which obviously hasn't been used in the film to the same extent. but the complainers don't care much about reason and logic and aren't concerned about reciting old info as long as it serves their purpose.

Do you have proof that SE isn't a French orphan in Siagon who gets adopted by a Korean ninja clan to which a Korean Storm Shadow belongs to?

[Shogi]

Do you have proof that SE isn't a French orphan in Siagon who gets adopted by a Korean ninja clan to which a Korean Storm Shadow belongs to?

Do you have proof that that wasn't changed from the first script?

Besides, I don't see how much of a problem it's going to be since Snake Eyes doesn't talk, you won't hear an accent and he wears a mask so you won't see facial features common to French people

[Goldface]

Do you have proof that that wasn't changed from the first script?

Besides, I don't see how much of a problem it's going to be since Snake Eyes doesn't talk, you won't hear an accent and he wears a mask so you won't see facial features common to French people

It's most proof we have so far.And if it's not a problem, why change his nationality in the first place?

[gunslingercbr]

Do you have proof that SE isn't a French orphan in Siagon who gets adopted by a Korean ninja clan to which a Korean Storm Shadow belongs to?

what there is proof of are rewrites and changes to the action and character's nationalities whose nationalities were only mentioned in the script for the reader but played no significant role in it. so the idea of continuing to purport it as what is in the movie is flawed -- nobody knows.

[CrimsonGuard101]

Right no body knows, thing is they could all be american citizens and retain thier native accents and be called "real american heros" at that point, how would you know? They aren't going to show us passports or birth certificates for every character in the movie to prove it one way or another. It is left to you to decide if it is american force or UN force (will help sell it's abiguity to other nation sit shows in). In my book they are all Americans as I don;t care what they show in the movie, I can make the figures what I want them to be at the end of the day. And they are all American :) sans the BAroness shes is still Russian/East German/Gypsy or whatever she was.

[Goldface]

what there is proof of are rewrites and changes to the action and character's nationalities whose nationalities were only mentioned in the script for the reader but played no significant role in it. so the idea of continuing to purport it as what is in the movie is flawed -- nobody knows.

Heavy Duty was British in the script...He's British in the movie!

[80sBabyFTW]

but the complainers don't care much about reason and logic and aren't concerned about reciting old info as long as it serves their purpose.

Adaptation is solid when neccessary from transition from one medium to another, film specifically.

What is the point in changing the nationality of main characters known to be American personalities, in an AMERICAN MYTHOLOGY?

When you hear GI Joe what do you think of ... French Nationals? British Intelligence Officers? No. Why? Because they're ...

GI Joe, real American heroes.

It's as American as apple pie, ham and cheese, etc.

Why not change Superman for christ sakes, or Batman, or hell make James Bond lithuanian ...

The spirit and essence of the superhero team known as GI Joe always has and always will be considered and thought of as an American ideology.

That isn't defying logic or reason. The change to the source material is whats not logical. That's making change in order to be more "pc" and friendly and reach a wider demographic in box offices outside of America, which in itself doesn't make sense considering studios consider the American box office numbers most important, while at the same time alienating the core of the fan base that grew up with these American born and bred heroes.

I'm just glad you confirmed that there have been re-writes and the nationalities from some of the core characters are still intact.

[gunslingercbr]

Heavy Duty was British in the script...He's British in the movie!

Hawk is British in the script...American in the movie. in the script the Baroness unleashes the nanomites from the Eifel Tower and the Joes are climbing it and saving people as it crumbles, in the movie it is shot from a neighboring building. see how easy bad arguments are to dispute? you have to ignore evidence that disputes your position to continue to defend it.

at this point we don't know what has stayed and what has been changed.

[gunslingercbr]

Adaptation is solid when neccessary from transition from one medium to another, film specifically.

What is the point in changing the nationality of main characters known to be American personalities, in an AMERICAN MYTHOLOGY?

because they want to expand that mythology. why is that so hard to understand? it's a very easy concept to grasp.

Why not change Superman for christ sakes, or Batman, or hell make James Bond lithuanian ...

Batman never wore body armor prior to 29 years ago, and yet it is the norm now. that's a big change to the character, yet nobody seems to have revolted from that? either change is an issue, or it isn't, and it is hypocritical to pick and choose which change is okay and which isn't.

[Goldface]

How about all the other scenes in the trailers that are like what's in the script? Works both ways.

[Firefly007]

Here is a link to the 1991 version of Heavy Duty.
YOJOE.COM | Filecard Gallery - Heavy Duty (http://www.yojoe.com/filecard/91/heavyduty.shtml)

File card states Chicago, Illinois birthplace.
I like the actor they chose to play Heavy Duty, he was Mr. Echo on Lost (one of the best characters) and he was in the mummy 2.

Changing their backgrounds is just wrong.
Snake eyes along with Storm Shadow with Stalker were all in Vietnam together, that's where they bounded.

[Goldface]

Hey 80sbabyFTW, you're about to get alot of hate from the fake A REAL AMERICAN HERO fans out here.

[Shogi]

We've been down this road many times before, but I would like to point out that it's not unheard of for GI Joe to loose the "Real American Hero" tag line and other american aspects. Since the 80's we've seen:

Action Force - where you had charcters like Mutt now being born in Germany

Dic Cartoon - the intro was changed to "International Heroes"

Funskool GI Joe - The tag line was also changed to "International Heroes"

Canadian Flags on GI Joe vehicles

This has happened before and to be honest, even some characters from the "Real American Hero" team were from foreign countries. Even many of those that were born in America were definately of a different culture. So a team of the best from all over the world representing GI Joe sounds perfectly fine to me. If I never read the birthplaces on the filecards from the toys, I would have thought this was what GI Joe was already.

[gijustin5051]

Changing their backgrounds is just wrong.
Snake eyes along with Storm Shadow with Stalker were all in Vietnam together, that's where they bounded.[/QUOTE]

If they didn't change the above up for the movie then SE and SS would be in their mid 50's right? :)

[80sBabyFTW]

because they want to expand that mythology. why is that so hard to understand? it's a very easy concept to grasp.
It's easy to grasp, yes. But does it make sense? No. It alienates large portions of the already existing fan base, no? And we're not talking about change that is the only way to expand the mythos. We're talking about dilberate changes to the very essence of what the characters represent and stand for as a whole. Would you change Superman's nationality? It changes what he represents.

Batman never wore body armor prior to 29 years ago, and yet it is the norm now.
Batman has worn body armor. Under what looks like his tights. And even when never directly stated, it was always insinuated. Body armor was an extension or re-thinking of the fine tuned more realistic take on the character. They didn't dramatically remold the character by making him something different by giving him visible body armor. They didn't change his origin, his character, or in this case background and nationality.

that's a big change to the character, yet nobody seems to have revolted from that?[/quote]
a) It wasn't that big of a change in terms of the essence of the character. That remained intact. And was still faithful to the source material.

b) It was well done by talented artists who made you believe in the change. And here is the kicker, it made sense. Therefore it caught on and was a success among new fans and old fans alike.

This dramatic change to the very essence of the GI Joe verse has obviously pissed off and alienated parts of the fanbase.

and it is hypocritical to pick and choose which change is okay and which isn't.
No, it isn't because some changes are made with purpose and work. Others aren't, aren't neccessary or well done. Log changing an American mythology to something entirely different into the other list of unneccessary changes seen from mytholgies changed to on screen counterparts. Bat-suits with nipples, etc

[Firefly007]

How can you honestly say Snake Eyes is a French National (if that's in ROC)? So. if they take the mask off in stead of Ray Parks we will find Van Dam ;)

[Goldface]

If I never read the birthplaces on the filecards from the toys, I would have thought this was what GI Joe was already.

Except for the tagline:A REAL AMERICAN HERO and american flags on every Joe and Joe vehicle :)

[80sBabyFTW]

Here is a link to the 1991 version of Heavy Duty.
YOJOE.COM | Filecard Gallery - Heavy Duty (http://www.yojoe.com/filecard/91/heavyduty.shtml)

File card states Chicago, Illinois birthplace.
I like the actor they chose to play Heavy Duty, he was Mr. Echo on Lost (one of the best characters) and he was in the mummy 2.

Changing their backgrounds is just wrong.
Snake eyes along with Storm Shadow with Stalker were all in Vietnam together, that's where they bounded.

Oh that's even worse ... my hometown.

Being a Chicago native, now a stuck up British soldier?

Meh, disgusting.

Let's do it up now ... Batman should be a puerto rican, Superman should be korean, Wolverine should be egyptian, etc

I mean, it's "advancing the mythology" ... you know, by completely changing the foundation of what makes these characters who they are, instead of taking what exists and pushing the boundaries with great storytelling, characterization, drama, etc.

[Firefly007]

Let's do it up now ... Batman should be a puerto rican, Superman should be korean, Wolverine should be egyptian, etc


Your singing to the choir. Check out my post on the "Recasting the original Star Wars trilogy" thread.

[RuckusJr]

Look, if you don't like it, don't go to the movie. The movie is made, it's finished. We're a month away from release. I'm pretty much sure everyone else has come to just accept the fact that things aren't the same as before. If they were, we'd have the god damn village people running around (Shipwreck and Spirit) chasing off a group of dirty bikers while a chrome masked Hillary Clinton (pant-suit anyone?) yells retreat. It just won't work. Besides, GI Joe has never had a huge international following. Why not make it have a worldwide appeal?

[80sBabyFTW]

Look, if you don't like it, don't go to the movie. The movie is made, it's finished. We're a month away from release. I'm pretty much sure everyone else has come to just accept the fact that things aren't the same as before. If they were, we'd have the god damn village people running around (Shipwreck and Spirit) chasing off a group of dirty bikers while a chrome masked Hillary Clinton (pant-suit anyone?) yells retreat. It just won't work. Besides, GI Joe has never had a huge international following. Why not make it have a worldwide appeal?

Thats my only option, don't go see the movie? I want to see the movie, everything else has looked good (apart from the fact of being a BIG dumb movie / toy commercial) They said it isn't confirmed on the nationality of various characters, which at least gives me hope that they recognized they did something wrong and were willing to change. And I'm all for adapting a look to be changed to be taken more serious on screen. I'm not an advocate of seeing exactly what you saw (visually) in the cartoon on the silver screen. I know it wouldn't work. I'm all for look adaptation. I even dig the new Cobra Commander. But when and IF the core essence is changed to a mythology and its characters, it's straight up wrong.

[Goldface]

http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-joe-general-discussion/41-official-forum-sig-pic-rules-read-me.html


1. No trolling, or flaming.
Any form of personal insult is a no-no. As a basic rule of thumb: if you think that what you are about to post is insulting, don't post it. No posting with the intent of starting "Drama". If you feel the need to start trouble, go elsewhere.

[Immortal_Joker]

Wow you just gave the definition of sheep in that post. :)

This quote deserves a special picture

http://images.bigfail.com/i/f/10/00/081.jpg

[Shogi]

Except for the tagline:A REAL AMERICAN HERO and american flags on every Joe and Joe vehicle :)

You missed my point

I was saying that a group of individuals from all over the world were collected to make up the team GI Joe. Now if it's based in america, then of course it's going to have american flags and such all over everything.

Since it seemed everyone was getting bent out of shape about WHERE the characters were born or came from, I made the point that unless you read the birthplaces, you really couldn't tell that the characters didn't come from foreign countries.

Your retort to my post makes it seem as if you are concerned with WHERE the team is based, which is something we were not talking about.

[Sigma6_fan85]

Thats my only option, don't go see the movie? I want to see the movie, everything else has looked good (apart from the fact of being a BIG dumb movie / toy commercial) They said it isn't confirmed on the nationality of various characters, which at least gives me hope that they recognized they did something wrong and were willing to change. And I'm all for adapting a look to be changed to be taken more serious on screen. I'm not an advocate of seeing exactly what you saw (visually) in the cartoon on the silver screen. I know it wouldn't work. I'm all for look adaptation. I even dig the new Cobra Commander. But when and IF the core essence is changed to a mythology and its characters, it's straight up wrong.

doesn't matter...american, british, german...they fight for the same thing human freedom. that is god's gift to us--freedom. so they made minor changes. i ain't gonna cry like a fanboy i'm just gonna have fun and watch this movie.

[Firefly007]

Changing their backgrounds is just wrong.
Snake eyes along with Storm Shadow with Stalker were all in Vietnam together, that's where they bounded.

If they didn't change the above up for the movie then SE and SS would be in their mid 50's right? :)[/QUOTE]

Have them bound in the first gulf war 91. The fact of the mater is these characters had history.

[Immortal_Joker]

doesn't matter...american, british, german...they fight for the same thing human freedom. that is god's gift to us--freedom. so they made minor changes. i ain't gonna cry like a fanboy i'm just gonna have fun and watch this movie.

Thank you! thats the best way to put it.

[80sBabyFTW]

doesn't matter...american, british, german...they fight for the same thing human freedom. that is god's gift to us--freedom. so they made minor changes. i ain't gonna cry like a fanboy i'm just gonna have fun and watch this movie.
Because I have issues with something doesn't make me whiney, there are aspects to the changes for the movie that I liked, that you obviously missed in one of my explanations.

No, America being the first country that was FOUNDED on ultimate freedom. It's been America's uncompromising vision of a free world that has been the driving force behind fighting "evil" at all corners of the world. And they have recruited others in their vision. They're the leaders and front runners in fights for freedom around the globe. Thats the American ideology. That's why those characteristics are ingrained in the mythos and culture of GI Joe: American Heroes. How do you not get that? Their personalities and methodology are totally American as well. I have no problem with a mainly compromised American military force that liason with various talents from other countries. As long as its majority recognized as being an American military branch. And no, it isn't a "minor change" in fact its quite major, and quite unneccessary.

[Goldface]

Because I have issues with something doesn't make me whiney, there are aspects to the changes for the movie that I liked, that you obviously missed in one of my explanations.

No, America being the first country that was FOUNDED on ultimate freedom. It's been America's uncompromising vision of a free world that has been the driving force behind fighting "evil" at all corners of the world. And they have recruited others in their vision. They're the leaders and front runners in fights for freedom around the globe. Thats the American ideology. That's why those characteristics are ingrained in the mythos and culture of GI Joe: American Heroes. How do you not get that? Their personalities and methodology are totally American as well. I have no problem with a mainly compromised American military force that liason with various talents from other countries. As long as its majority recognized as being an American military branch. And no, it isn't a "minor change" in fact its quite major, and quite unneccessary.

Don't worry dude, the fake fans would have absolutly no problem if G.I.Joe was renamed U.N.Joe for this movie.

[Immortal_Joker]

Don't worry dude, the fake fans would have absolutly no problem if G.I.Joe was renamed U.N.Joe for this movie.

For the love of God STOP WITH THE FAKE FAN B.S!!!

If this movie proves to be a success an this Forum gets a whole new set of fans cause of it are you goin to be a complete ass an give them hell for enjoying a movie that is made to bring in a new generation of fans to the Mythology?

Seriously you are a big embarassment right now.

[80sBabyFTW]

I mean everything else looks good for this movie. The previews for the film, and the new toys have re-invigorated my interest in the mythology that I had long since left back in my childhood. I don't mind if a few characters here and there are of different nationality and background. I totally get the purpose behind changing at least a few for diversity ... but the staple of this mythos is of it being an American work force of heroes, the main characters most notably.

I don't see how anyone who truly has a grasp on the pulse of th emythos couldn't see and/or acknowledge that in these conversations.

[Immortal_Joker]

Because if they looking to see if the movie will be accepted by the International community. If they were all completely American I bet most of the responses would be why aren't there anyone else from different countries in it to represent them or why is their base only in the U.S instead of a neutral location since they are a multi-national force.

Thats my point of view tho.

[80sBabyFTW]

Because if they looking to see if the movie will be accepted by the International community. If they were all completely American I bet most of the responses would be why arent their anyone else from different countries in it to represent them or why is their base only in the U.S instead of a neutral location since they are a multi-national force.

Thats my point of view tho.

Obviously. You're also from Trinidad. It's an American mythology. I said I don't mind seeing some changed for diversity, but the feel and essence of the team should be totally American. Why should we change that to accomodate others? If you don't like Americans or can't relate, why are you taking rooting interest in a story founded and forged as American mythology?

When Godzilla was imported as a film to the states (prior to the horrific 1998 version) did Americans complain the characters, Godzilla, and others didn't represent Americans? No. Why? Because it's a japanese mythology. One can still enjoy it without having your nationality represented on screen. That's a copp out by the film producers trying to grasp for the most amount of money, as opposed to being faithful to the essence of the story to the established fanbase.

[Immortal_Joker]

Who said I dont like Americans? I have family who live in the States and I grew up with G.I.Joe.

Unlike other fans I gave each new version of G.I.Joe a chance. When the D.I.C version of the show came out an they changed the theme song I was a little disappointed but I still loved the show. Rise of Cobra is just the same.

They may have change a lot of things about it from the look of the Characters to the backgrounds of each of them but I am not going to turn my back on it with out giving it a chance.

I have a lot of respect for the G.I.Joe Mythology and fans but when it comes to elitism and sheer stupidity I start to lose respect for the fandom in general.

Just one question: Don't you want the Fanbase to expand beyond the currently established one?

[vadersquest]

Okay guys, Calm down a bit

[gunslingercbr]

Because I have issues with something doesn't make me whiney, there are aspects to the changes for the movie that I liked, that you obviously missed in one of my explanations.

No, America being the first country that was FOUNDED on ultimate freedom. It's been America's uncompromising vision of a free world that has been the driving force behind fighting "evil" at all corners of the world. And they have recruited others in their vision. They're the leaders and front runners in fights for freedom around the globe. Thats the American ideology. That's why those characteristics are ingrained in the mythos and culture of GI Joe: American Heroes. How do you not get that? Their personalities and methodology are totally American as well. I have no problem with a mainly compromised American military force that liason with various talents from other countries. As long as its majority recognized as being an American military branch. And no, it isn't a "minor change" in fact its quite major, and quite unneccessary.
it is a major change, but the broadest concept of G.I. Joe is an military team first and foremost. American is just a more specific aspect of that broad idea.

so, you can't betray the idea of G.I. Joe as long as it is still a military unit. that's what this movie does. takes the idea and makes it bigger, and quite frankly, better.

being international simply makes it more relevant today. the 80's, and its political climate are over, as much as some of you don't want to believe.

this movie is about making G.I. Joe relevant to the entire world, not just the U.S., and certainly not just to 30 somethings who can't accept anything being different than what it was in their childhood.

[Immortal_Joker]

it is a major change, but the broadest concept of G.I. Joe is an military team first and foremost. American is just a more specific aspect of that broad idea.

so, you can't betray the idea of G.I. Joe as long as it is still a military unit. that's what this movie does. takes the idea and makes it bigger, and quite frankly, better.

being international simply makes it more relevant today. the 80's, and its political climate are over, as much as some of you don't want to believe.

this movie is about making G.I. Joe relevant to the entire world, not just the U.S., and certainly not just to 30 somethings who can't accept anything being different than what it was in their childhood.

^^ his point is better than mine :-p

[Goldface]

Please point out where in today's world there is a multi-national special ops team...there is none.

G.I.Joe is suppose to be a Delta force type American special ops team.
As much as you ROC fans think that the UN actually fights tyrants and terrorist, you're wrong,they usually run away from conflicts.

By the way,where did the term G.I.Joe come from?

[CrimsonGuard101]

There really is 2 ways to look at this. As much as I hate the movie's changs and the direction it decided to go and what they have and will have changed soon enough, the figures and toys are still really good. That being said they can be either UN or American it really does not matter. I am sure the movie has a huge internal message about them being UN in order to do like many have said draw in people who really do not like americanized things. Hell just having General Hawk being Dennis Quaid has "epic fail" written all over it for the World Community because he emobidies american ideals in all of his movies and US leadership is always looked as why something suceeds or fails in world affairs (eben in the US)..and hence that is the purpose of a leader to make bad decsions or good ones with enough resolve to stand up for those decisions. Will he be able to sell that? We will see.

But in any case I at least can take my figures home and make them into what I want. They really are very nice and fit in well with the rest of my figures albeit I have to modifiy a lot of them and spend huge ammounts of extra money to make them the way I want, but hey we get a choice I guess at least with the toys.

The movie we don't get any say in and it is already done, all I can hope is they pay attention to what they have done and really think hard on how they (and if they still do pending results of ROC) the sequals. Time to move on and leave behind the mess that is the ROC movie. It's relase is coming and soon it will be a past memory for those who choose to see it. Will it bring in more fans and more people to say "you were all wrong" or "I want more!"? I dunno but It won't matter to me as I have already put the new Joes in a place in my joe verse that can not be altered by them being American, UN or not even the joes we used to know.

All of this of course does not include Marlane Wayans and any Unmasked version of Storm Shadow LOL I just can not bring myself to allow them in my world ever....

[Shogi]

Obviously. You're also from Trinidad. It's an American mythology. I said I don't mind seeing some changed for diversity, but the feel and essence of the team should be totally American. Why should we change that to accomodate others? If you don't like Americans or can't relate, why are you taking rooting interest in a story founded and forged as American mythology?

When Godzilla was imported as a film to the states (prior to the horrific 1998 version) did Americans complain the characters, Godzilla, and others didn't represent Americans? No. Why? Because it's a japanese mythology. One can still enjoy it without having your nationality represented on screen. That's a copp out by the film producers trying to grasp for the most amount of money, as opposed to being faithful to the essence of the story to the established fanbase.

For the record, I'd like to point out that the movie Godzilla was changed for American audiences with the inclusion of an all new character played by an american actor, Raymond Burr, and the deletion of 40 minutes worth of footage which included various subplots to the story.

The producers felt they couldn't market the movie to westerners without an american character put into the movie

[80sBabyFTW]

it is a major change, but the broadest concept of G.I. Joe is an military team first and foremost. American is just a more specific aspect of that broad idea.
Not really. The American aspect to the mythos isn't being "more specific" it literally goes hand in hand WITH the material from its inception. It isn't some small minute detail that you have to look for or otherwise go un-noticed. The team is branded as American. Yeah, describing GI Joe team as a military team 1st would be the MOST vague descripition of said GI Joe team you could possibly think of.

But it being an American entity is its strongest enduring and relatable trait until these changes were implemented. You're literally arguing against the BIGGEST disapproval on the surface level for this flick (beyond the fact the movie has already got horrific reactions in terms of quality) from not just long time fans, but even casual movie goers. People are complaining that the theatrical posters don't say "American Heroes" for christ sakes. Then when they eventually see the film in theaters and see damn near the entire cast of majority American characters, many main protagonists at that, have now been remade and re-invented as non American apple pie characters? People will be even more pissed. You don't think people will be quick to be upset over a change to well known and loved characters as that?

It would literally be like changing Superman's ethnicity or origin. He thematically represents America. So does the GI Joe team as a WHOLE, as do many of its individual pieces.

so, you can't betray the idea of G.I. Joe as long as it is still a military unit.
False. So I can just make a movie about a military unit and it's GI Joe, AMERICAN HEROES? Ummm, no.

takes the idea and makes it bigger, and quite frankly, better.
Without getting into spoilers, how does it make the idea better simply by making it less and less nationalized and more "global" and diverse? Honestly, tell me that.

Because the team as it were, when it was simply an American property, was still a global unit. They didn't fight purely on American soil. They took the fight through out the world.

being international simply makes it more relevant today.
Really, how so?

Pushing the whole U.N. / N.W.O. agenda?

Because let's just take for instance The Dark Knight. Immensly popular movie and mythos. Just as American as GI JOE. The movie did fantastic everywhere, and the film was very American centric. Because if you didn't pick up on it, the whole movie's subversive point was about our countries war on terror. It made a stance on our anti-terrorism activities, our political climate with idealistic heroes running for office (Dent / Obama), State / Country sponsored black ops programs, it asked American morality and policy questions on torture of terrorists, wiretapping / surveilance etc.

It wasn't a "globalized" movie, it was totally American and it was fantastic and universally loved round the world.

the 80's, and its political climate are over, as much as some of you don't want to believe.
THAT political climate is over, but there is a new one which is just as relevant, with more topics to cover for American audiences and what better way to tell a story within a story for Americans than by seeing it potrayed in bread and butter American mythology in GI Joe. Something they automatically have rapport with and can relate to ... instead they are now bland / generic league of nations? Ummm, ok. Awkward.

this movie is about making G.I. Joe relevant to the entire world
Why does GI Joe need to relevant to the entire world? You can still make it relevant to the world without changing core characteristics of the entire mythos. Is changing known elements of the mythos the only way to make it relevant and liked?

It's a needless change. That's why people have a problem with it.

If it was a change or adaptation that made sense and was coherent with the essence of the material, generally change is met with some reserve then accepted if done right.

But if its change for the sake of change, or for the belief that by twisting key elements of the foundation for the mythos will be the mutually exclusive thing that draws in more fans or makes the property more relevant, then you couldn't be more wrong.

[80sBabyFTW]

For the record, I'd like to point out that the movie Godzilla was changed for American audiences with the inclusion of an all new character played by an american actor, Raymond Burr, and the deletion of 40 minutes worth of footage which included various subplots to the story.

The producers felt they couldn't market the movie to westerners without an american character put into the movie

Right they added nuances to appeal to the American viewer.

They didn't however take the whole concept of Godzilla, a japanese monster which was a metaphor for the after effects of the nuclear bomb dropped on the country and its aftermath, didn't change it into something completely different ... he stayed a japanese monster because he represented Japan thematically

the way these producers have taken a team of an elite American military branch, and made them into something else entirely. Thus destroying what they mean thematically, in an effort to be more pc and sold to more people, sell out on the original concept toss aside their fortitude by not making them an American based squadron of superheroes, even if that brought flak or negative praise, and went the cupcake route and tried to please everyone by making them multi-national.

When you try to please everyone, you please no one. Keep it simple stupid. GI Joes, are Americans. Americans relate to that fact. It's an American property and mythology, don't run away from that ... embrace it. If the other countries can't hop on for the fact its American, tell them to kick rocks. It's funny because by not making them clear cut Americans, they're alienating the foundation for their original fan base.

[Fred Broca]

It's funny because by not making them clear cut Americans, they're alienating the foundation for their original fan base.

Dude haven't you figured out that we, the fandom don't matter to these people. Despite the fact that we're the reason this film was thought of and conceived.

[80sBabyFTW]

Dude haven't you figured out that we, the fandom don't matter to these people. Despite the fact that we're the reason this film was though of and conceived.

Which is sad. A middle ground can't be met somewhere? That's what the best comic book to film movies do ...

They take what you know, what is established, what is loved and cherished. Respect the essence and core of what makes whatever character or mythos universally loved, and add twists and nuances to make it fresh or for a broader audience. But the respect is still given to the source, and for the fans who have stuck with the material since the beginning.

This film for GI Joe just happens to be humped in with the rest of the Hollywood production movies that were financed and produced by people who either didn't know or grasp the source material, or straight up couldn't give a shit about it one way or another.

[Fred Broca]

This film for GI Joe just happens to be humped in with the rest of the Hollywood production movies that were financed and produced by people who either didn't know or grasp the source material, or straight up couldn't give a shit about it one way or another.

How can you not grasp AMERICAN special opts fights terrorist group determined to rule the rule? You said it, they didn't give a shit. As I said before I have a really hard time believing that this particular movie was the vision for G.I. Joe. I honestly believe that this was somebody elses or another project entirely with characters from the cartoon and comic book with the G.I. Joe brand name attached to it.

The powers that be figure that the fan base is stu...I mean loyal enough to support anything called G.I. Joe.

[Draven]

The tagline in the UK used to be "International Heroes". A lot of the birthplaces for the Joes were changed; Downtown even came from my home town.
I don't suggest you ever look this up for yourself; you'd probably have an aneurysm.

[Firefly007]

People have problems seeing the world in gray, they want to see it as black or white. The fan base that comes out of this film will not be the same as the fan base for the ARAH to 25th line. I mean, how can it? This movie is catering to the people out there who do not know much about GI Joe. By changing established characters race, ethnicity, citizenship, and even their looks is called character revision. Honestly, how can you have two of the same action figure with the same name/code name and be totally different? This is not the same as the established versions and therefore is a different animal. They should have introduced new characters. This movie is an obvious ploy to make profit from the old fans to the new fan base. The old fans are already hooked on their figures and want more; the new fans are just starting.

Since the movie producers/writers want a PC verse, then the movie should have had a different title. I noticed that they missed out in having a Hispanic character in the film (or at least it is not mentioned in the cast list), so to be PC; the title should be GI José Rise of Chullo.

Just remember, even if it’s a turd, the movie will always be around in DVD form, so it is not the movie being flushed, it is the ARAH to 25th fandom (1982-2009 R.I.P.) that is being flushed away. I hear the toilet flushing now WHHOOOOOOSSSHHHH….

[Shogi]

Since the movie producers/writers want a PC verse, then the movie should have had a different title. I noticed that they missed out in having a Hispanic character in the film (or at least it is not mentioned in the cast list), so to be PC; the title should be GI José Rise of Chullo.


I don't know if Shipwreck is actually in the movie or not, but I'd like to point out that there is a Movie figure of Shipwreck and he's hispanic. There has also been rumor that Shippy's in a scene so they may very well have a hispanic person presented in the movie

[Firefly007]

I don't know if Shipwreck is actually in the movie or not, but I'd like to point out that there is a Movie figure of Shipwreck and he's hispanic. There has also been rumor that Shippy's in a scene so they may very well have a hispanic person presented in the movie

If that is the case, he is in the background, not a many character. His file card name is Hector Delgado, which he is hispanic. If he was now someone else, than insert into the first paragraph. The rumor which was also posted on the tank, was Brendan Fraser was shipwreck and The Rock was Gung-Ho?

[Shogi]

If that is the case, he is in the background, not a many character. His file card name is Hector Delgado, which he is hispanic. If he was now someone else, than insert into the first paragraph. The rumor which was also posted on the tank, was Brendan Fraser was shipwreck and The Rock was Gung-Ho?

We can't make all the charcters main characters in the first movie, he may very well be a background character in this movie and a main one in the next movie.

As for the Fraser/Rock rumor, I believe that has been dispelled as the Rock has said, he wasn't approached to be in the movie and Fraser says he rides a motorcycle and the character's name was completely different. In fact, the last rumor going around about Fraser's character was that he was either Rock N Roll or an all new character. IIRC the rumored scene with Shipwreck had him in a sub.

Either way, we'll all know for sure once the movie comes out

[Shipwreck]

Ok... Firefly007 contacted me about the thread war here about a movie ver. Shipwreck. Now since I've read some of the stuff going on here, Figured I'd add my two dimes into this.

I'm rather knowledge ridden with Shippy since he's a favorite of mine, and has been for a very long time.

Hector Xavier Delgado is hispanic born in C.A. just a short ways from the San Diego Shipyard. Now, growing up he used to dream of being in the Navy. He enlisted when he was 4 months away from being 18. Now He is hispanic but he's American born so was his mother and father, However his grandmother wasn't, neither was his grandfather on his father's side. That said, we all could really go that way too through family trees.

If you guys want to throw stones at the movie figures, here's one for you.... Polly was also changed. The original Polly art work is a double yellow head Amazon, the figure is a Yellow Nape Amazon, and the new one is a macaw. big difference. There are also Rate conflictions with Shipwreck as well.

His original rate was E7(Chief Petty officer)
Second was also E7(Chief Petty Officer)
New file card FF 25th line E8( Senior Chief Petty Officer)
Now Movie line, he was busted down to E7( Chief) What backstory could be held now for his getting busted down a rank? Pop Gung Ho, or Law?

One thing I did not like is giving him the rank of E7, yet having him in E6 Utility clothes (work blues) He should have been in Khakis with a cap, not a Dixie. His stripes were on the wrong arm, should have been on the LEFT arm, not Right. ONly thing right was his dixie was squared. Now Granted I love Shipwreck, and the USN( up till where they changed most uniforms recently)
Now ... other thing I'd like to point out on the movie note... if Ship's in it, should have him wearing a Budweiser on his uniform. this time have him in the right uniform for his class. I don't care who they get to play him. just hope he's got some lines, and gets some action time.

YO JOE! If you want to know what Budweiser is, ask me.