What is on Zartan's head?

[the_loud_master]

For many a great while I have wondered, BEFORE I actually had a Zartan, what exactly was on his head? I thought it was hair from a picture and I thoughte the Ninja force one was when he finally decided to get a {bad} haircut. NOW I know what it is, but what do you guys think?

ZAR( NOB( DED(

[DarthBrett]

It's a hood or a cowl.

[Phorpus]

When I first saw him as a random picture on the internet a long time ago I thought it was his hair.
Also that he looked like some voodoo priest.

But now I guess it's just a hood on his head.
Don't know if it's attached to his shirt or something.

[GunghosLipHair]

brown paper bag. He picks up some fugly chicks in the everglades

[DarthBrett]

I think it just sits on his head, not attached to anything. I always guessed that Zartan was probably sporting a shaved head underneath the hood.

[the_loud_master]

I think it just sits on his head, not attached to anything. I always guessed that Zartan was probably sporting a shaved head underneath the hood.
or a really super kewl neon pink mohawk.

[Porkchop Sandwiches]

A cool G hoodie

[Phorpus]

I think it just sits on his head, not attached to anything. I always guessed that Zartan was probably sporting a shaved head underneath the hood.

But you'd think somebody who is extremely sensitive to sunlight would try to grow more hair to protect himself

Just saying.

[DaViper]

maybe his skin is so sensitive, he can't grow hair.. :D

[DarthBrett]

But you'd think somebody who is extremely sensitive to sunlight would try to grow more hair to protect himself

Just saying.
Yeah, but a few of us on here have been over this subject before. You'd think he wouldn't expose his chest and arms either if that was the case. But he wasn't designed to be practical obviously, just cool looking for us kids back in the early 80's. Although I think maybe the hood was worn for him to protect his head from those intense UV's in the Florida swamps.

[the_loud_master]

maybe his skin is so sensitive, he can't grow hair.. :D one word. mowhawk.

[esg2145]

A hood, so he can be all nice and comfy like the CC when he's not wearing his helmet.



Kind of like this guy -

http://www.thuglifearmy.com/images/Artist%20Pics/t.250.Lil_E_hoodie_M300.jpg



Straight out of Compton baby!


:)

Eric

[squeee666]

I always thought it was a hood. But how the hell does he keep it on his head? Wouldn't one gust of wind knock it off? Maybe he uses spirit gum?

[Super_Megatron]

one word. mowhawk.
Is that like a mohawk for cows? :D

[the_loud_master]

Is that like a mohawk for cows? :D
NO! I meant that the second Z-man fig had a pink mohawk and yet in most other toys he's bald.

EDIT: I didn't notice my grammactical error. LOL.

[Owner of a Lonely B.A.T.]

We used to call it a brown doily.

[G.I. Smurf]

as a kid watching the cartoon i thought it was his hair, but wasnt sure as it looked odd. now i know from the figures that it is a hood

[NeilJam]

Is that like a mohawk for cows? :D

No, that would be a moohawk. :)

I think a mowhawk is what you end up with when you miss one strip of grass mowing the lawn.

:D

[Dark 5cythe]

What the real question is why does he wear it under every disguise and how does it fit? Everytime he rips off a mask, the hood comes out. HOW!?

[the_loud_master]

What the real question is why does he wear it under every disguise and how does it fit? Everytime he rips off a mask, the hood comes out. HOW!?
TRUE! So true!

[Gentleman]

I don't think it's hair...
...and I don't think it's a hood.

It just... "is" :D




Zartan's mojo.

[DarthBrett]

What the real question is why does he wear it under every disguise and how does it fit? Everytime he rips off a mask, the hood comes out. HOW!?

I guess that's why he's a "MASTER" of Disguise!

[the_loud_master]

Alright who picked hair!?

[DarthBrett]

I want to know who picked "Other" and what they thought it might actually be!

[GunghosLipHair]

I want to know who picked "Other" and what they thought it might actually be!


lol I did. Cause its a brown paper bag.

[TTT]

Eh ...guys....

issue #49 page 7
Ripcord was wearing it, he calls it a ....? _____

[the_loud_master]

Eh ...guys....

issue #49 page 7
Ripcord was wearing it, he calls it a ....? _____
i dont know that! why do you think i thought it ws hair at first! cause ima NOB(

[Dark 5cythe]

I guess that's why he's a "MASTER" of Disguise!

Good point. I guess theres plenty of stuff that just "is" in GI Joe and we have to accept it.

[A.V.A.C.]

lets see; it could be a hijab, he is fond of swords. it could be a way to help hold his willie nelson mask on. it might also be a good way to keep the top of his head from looking like a bandmember of greenday.

[atomicpower]

I dressed as Zartan for an 80s TV party last year and I just cut the hood off a hooded sweatshirt. I don't know if they have those in florida, but I didn't have a problem keeping it on my head. I DID have a problem keeping all that black facepaint on. And my shinguards.

[Gentleman]

Eh ...guys....

issue #49 page 7
Ripcord was wearing it, he calls it a ....? _____

I dunno, but it looks like Zartan's "thing" was cursed because as soon as Ripcord removed it, he was no longer a white man.

[esg2145]

I dressed as Zartan for an 80s TV party last year and I just cut the hood off a hooded sweatshirt. I don't know if they have those in florida, but I didn't have a problem keeping it on my head. I DID have a problem keeping all that black facepaint on. And my shinguards.


Apparently, you've never been to a KISS concert in full make up then have you? %)


"I WANT TO ITCH AT IT SO BAD!!!" %O


Eric - " The hottest band in the world ! "

[esg2145]

lets see; it could be a hijab, he is fond of swords. it could be a way to help hold his willie nelson mask on. it might also be a good way to keep the top of his head from looking like a bandmember of greenday.


How about in " Snake Eyes : Declassified " where he looked like Triple H ? :)



Eric

[the_loud_master]

Apparently, you've never been to a KISS concert in full make up then have you? %)


"I WANT TO ITCH AT IT SO BAD!!!" %O


Eric - " The hottest band in the world ! "
Fact: Zartan is Gene Simmons.

[Porkchop Sandwiches]

Oprah's Va-jay-jay...i think

[TTT]

Wow, nobody here has the comics I guess.

Answer: Cowl

[Hicks_Royel]

So what did Ripcord call it, already...

[OUTBACK]

you guys need to do some Zartan research....

no offense.

[Xerofall]

I voted "other" because well, it's both... in the comic and toy, it's a hood, or cowl.

Example:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e213/Surlon/GI%20Joe/Cowl2.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e213/Surlon/GI%20Joe/Cowl.jpg

In the cartoon however it was more like hair.

Example:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e213/Surlon/GI%20Joe/zartan1.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e213/Surlon/GI%20Joe/zartan2.jpg

Like I said before, the cartoon and comic are on such opposite sides of the spectrum.

[DarthBrett]

Man, that first pic of him above makes him look like a Thundercat or something?!

[Hicks_Royel]

Man, that first pic of him above makes him look like a Thundercat or something?!

Yeah, that's what I thought too.

[Omegawrath]

In a few episodes of the show (Countdown for Zartan I think) the animation shows Zartan's cowl behaving like hair.

On the Ninja-Force Zartan, he had a mohawk, so I'm inclined to believe that was his hair.

Or maybe a hologram.

Although that thing on Zartan's head is undoubtedly a hood/cowl thing.

This is like the polls I've seen asking if Destro's a black man. Read the comics. Or look at him. He wears an open shirt. Maybe his chest looked like a yellow shirt on TV, but the figure was unmistakably bare chested.

[DarthBrett]

So, the answer would seem to be differnt depending on which Zartan we're talking about then. In the comic and on the action figure it is obviously a hood or a cowl. And it seems as though in the cartoon it was his hair.

[A.V.A.C.]

in defense of myself, i was being sarcastic. i have always followed the comic up to issue 120 or so. i just don't have the word cowl in my vocabulary. nor will i ever. the cartoon still does look like a thundercat, thats hillarious. i did like zartans voice in the toon though.

[esg2145]

in defense of myself, i was being sarcastic. i have always followed the comic up to issue 120 or so. i just don't have the word cowl in my vocabulary. nor will i ever. the cartoon still does look like a thundercat, thats hillarious. i did like zartans voice in the toon though.


Yeah? How about in this episode then?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfiEtxqVgus&feature=related



I love it, still kills me everytime :), almost as funny as this one -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GjsUYMU0v8&feature=related


Good stuff!


Eric :)

[esg2145]

Wow, nobody here has the comics I guess.

Answer: Cowl




Ahh, a cowl! Just like Batman! %)



While I do like Zartan, I did always think he looked like Alice Cooper on steroids. :)



Eric

[A.V.A.C.]

thanks 2145, i almost threw up my spagetti all over my computer. those were so awesome, i still have tears of laughter running down my cheecks. i have to admit, zima's not a bad beverage on a warm summers night.

[Porkchop Sandwiches]

Flapjacks?

[esg2145]

thanks 2145, i almost threw up my spagetti all over my computer. those were so awesome, i still have tears of laughter running down my cheecks. i have to admit, zima's not a bad beverage on a warm summers night.


My favorite two lines of the that second one are -

"Saddam Hussein, he's actually quite the pr*ck to deal with......"

and

"Oh!......pot stickers!"



Kills me every time, that and him kicking the vacuum and cruising the dial-a-date thing on-line.

"I do quite well with the ladies" :)



Eric - "Storm Shadow, return my call! The number is 555-Coooooooooobra!"

[TTT]

So what did Ripcord call it, already...

LOL !

Look above your post ^

[the_loud_master]

Oky so do we have consensous here? Hair=castoon and hood=comic?

[zartan15]

well, since all the 3 3/4" except ninja force an d possible hockey zartan are bald, the cartoon makes it look like hair, the comic makes it a cowl, and the 12" figures has both, I put other. I think both

[nervous]

I had alwaysthought it was a hood, up until I saw that dude who does the "ups" commercials where he draws with the markers...He has a Zartan hood hairdo! Of course there is the legend that if you look under Zartan's hood, you get a roundhouse kick to the face from Chuck Norris

http://www.hisstank.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2584&stc=1&d=1200190518

My first reaction to that cartoon image was Thundercats as well

[Alley Viper]

brown paper bag. He picks up some fugly chicks in the everglades
lol!

[Crimson Rage]

It's quite obviously a hood on the figure, so why the cartoon insisted on making it hair (see it waving about in REVENGE OF COBRA when he's on his Swamp Skier!) always confused me. I just pretend it's a hood when I watch the show.

[barbecue]

I used to think he have long hair until a couple of months ago when I read the Dreadnoks Classified comic book 3 part. It's kind of embarrasing to have think he have long hair for many years only to discover that all he have covering his head is a freaking brown towel.

[Shockwave]

yup possibly a dew rag. may have spelled that wrong but oh well

[VIPER 48]

A hood...:)

[AMERICAN_Hero7]

I just noticed this so if I'm late, don't diss me. Has anyone here noticed how Zartan figures have him with a hood over his head while the cartoon has him with no hood but long hair of the same color. Are the figures that way just so we can place the extra "face" accessory on him?

[The Commander]

The cartoon was a hood as well, although the artist tended to draw it almost the same as hair (or that's was my thinking).

[AMERICAN_Hero7]

The cartoon was a hood as well, although the artist tended to draw it almost the same as hair (or that's was my thinking).

I don't know...this picture gives me doubts...JoeToonArchive.com - Arise Serpentor Arise! Pt 1/0412 (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=89&pos=371)

[sharke]

I agree...its a hood.......not to be confused with a trap.....or tarp

[xFlintx]

Definately a hood in the toon as well, it just looks thicker

[UMAN]

The cartoon makes it look like he has ridiculously fluffy long hair. Everywhere else, its a hood (which is cooler).

[AMERICAN_Hero7]

Maybe it would be more obvious if the hood didn't form a perfect hair line...

[Roadblock Recall]

Cartoon has always been hair, never a hood.

[jeff117]

it's a hood in the cartoon, if it wasn't you woud be able to se a part in the hair, like so JoeToonArchive.com - Arise Serpentor Arise! Pt 4/0092 (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=93&pos=83)

[Roadblock Recall]

definately hair lol

http://www.hisstank.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13972&stc=1&d=1221669914

[Roadblock Recall]

it's a hood in the cartoon, if it wasn't you woud be able to se a part in the hair, like so JoeToonArchive.com - Arise Serpentor Arise! Pt 4/0092 (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=93&pos=83)

you're assuming everyone has a part in their hair

[AMERICAN_Hero7]

This thread is stirring up controversy, LOL...I'm still not convinced either way because even though I can see how it can be a hood, Zartan still has his hair line right where it's supposed to be.

[COBRACOLLECTOR]

Thtas a Hood Brother

[Roadblock Recall]

Thtas a Hood Brother
supposed to be a hood, but in the cartoon it's drawn as hair. Forget the comic, just go by the cartoon.

[jeff117]

in 80's cartoons, if you have long hair that runs to your neck, it's either in a pony tail, parted on the side or in the middle. Jesus, i don't think it's the goal to confuse ppl when making a cartoon. they tend to keep things (like this) simple. use your imagination on this one JoeToonArchive.com - Last Hour To Doomsday/0047 (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=95&pos=47) ( picture the hair brown , ok ) thats what it would look like if it was hair.

[AMERICAN_Hero7]

in 80's cartoons, if you have long hair that runs to your neck, it's either in a pony tail, parted on the side or in the middle. Jesus, i don't think it's the goal to confuse ppl when making a cartoon. they tend to keep things (like this) simple. use your imagination on this one JoeToonArchive.com - Last Hour To Doomsday/0047 (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=95&pos=47) ( picture the hair brown , ok ) thats what it would look like if it was hair.

Wow! I didn't know Baroness used to wear a hood too! LOL...i'm kidding folks.

[TheLongestDay]

wasnt there a thread like this aaaaages ago? Im pretty sure it was supposed to be a hood/cowl whatever but sometimes the animators drew it like hair-just like in the turtles cartoon they would mostly blink with green eyelids and sometimes the eyelids would be part of the head band/mask

[Dr. Spitesworth]

Wow, I didn't realize this was a raging debate in the Joe community. I always saw it as a hood since it lacked the definition of the cartoon's style for hair.

Also: it's "candy mint."

[Mandingo Rex]

Haha. I never had the figure as a kid, so when I saw the figure for the first time, I was like HOOD?

I always thought it was poofy hair too. Kinda like the Twins' big bouffant, but longer.

Actually, they all look like they're wearing bad wigs. It made sense for Zartan to wear a wig, right?

Now I know it's a hood, although neither makes much sense. I always thought it was silly that the figure's disguises were just masks. Is that fooling anyone? It's like Man-E-Faces from He-Man, or whatever his name was.

"Oh, a robot face! You must be completely different than monster-face guy who was standing there just a second ago!"

[AMERICAN_Hero7]

Pretty close so far...8 people say hood and 6 say it's hair...

[snakeeyes1976]

it could be a hood made out of hair there you go debate solved lol

[DPrime]

The cartoon simplified a lot of design aspects. Even if they did change it to be hair (which again, I believe to be a simplified depiction of the hood in the first place, but if it was hair, it was probably drawn that way by mistake), since when did the cartoon trump the comic, or for that matter, the TOY ITSELF? Pretty obvious it's a hood, from what I can tell.

[Darklon]

Count me in for hood. For some reason I always imagined him with an orange crew cut underneath the hood. Then when the ninja force version with the mohawk came out my hair color hunch was confirmed.

[snakeeyes1976]

Its kinda like Grimus that big purple thing at Micky Ds you know it looked like a Big Plum we will never know what it is. But i think it could be hair maybe ill have to watch the cartoon.. Hey does anyone know if they are going release the Gi joes cartoons again on DVD I go to the store and hope i see them but they have like HE-Man, She Ra , even the freaken smurfs complete season but no gi joe .. If anyone know if or when they are going to be out let us know

[Roadblock Recall]

since when did the cartoon trump the comic

since when did the comic trump the cartoon? they are completely seperate entities.

[Crimson Bludd]

Its clearly a hood in the cartoon.

Its always been a hood. Never hair, no question. No doubt. No debate.

I can 100% garauntee you, if you ask anybody connected to making the original cartoon they will tell you its a hood.

[GMunny]

I also always thought it was his hair, as I only watched the toon as a kid...but I now realize it's supposed to be a hood, and that makes sense due to his skin condition and reaction to direct sunlight.

[Obeah Ghost]

cowl. the end.

[Obeah Ghost]

or hood, whatever you fancy.

[Recondo]

I pose this question

if indeed it is a hood in the cartoon, not disputing the fact that it is a hood in the comic and on the toy, them why in God's name would he wear is hood/cowl underneath all of those rubber masks he so loved to rip off his face in front of the joes?

[sambo_p]

"Breath mint"

[Mandingo Rex]

I don't doubt that the original intent was a hood. Destro was definitely intended to be a Scotsman, by the toy bio and the comic, but in the cartoon, he was a big black man with a badass voice to my 6-year-old self.

I saw poofy hair as a kid. Now, yea, I realize it's a hood. But for a time, I thought storks brought babies until I watched a video in 3rd grade that changed my life forever.

[Mandingo Rex]

I pose this question

if indeed it is a hood in the cartoon, not disputing the fact that it is a hood in the comic and on the toy, them why in God's name would he wear is hood/cowl underneath all of those rubber masks he so loved to rip off his face in front of the joes?

Zing. Good point! Kinda like Baroness who was also fond of masks... Yanks that mask off, and whisk! sassy hair flows back into place.

Of course the bigger question on top of that is, how can you fit either a head full of hair OR a bigass hood under a mask and it not look silly either?

[delta]

It's a hood

[Roadblock Recall]

It's a hood

no, it's hair

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e213/Surlon/GI%20Joe/zartan1.jpg


http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e213/Surlon/GI%20Joe/zartan2.jpg

[artiepants]

it's a hood, just very poorly drawn. (on the Joe Cartoon!!! -for shame!)
(or the animators were confused...)

although, that screen cap RR just posted is pretty damning.

[Roadblock Recall]

it's a hood, just very poorly drawn. (on the Joe Cartoon!!! -for shame!)
(or the animators were confused...)

although, that screen cap RR just posted is pretty damning.

we all know it's a hood in the comic and toy. but the question at hand now is if it's a hood or hair in the cartoon. all evidence shows it's definitely hair.

[esg2145]

It's hood, look below............


Besides, I've had long hair for over 20 years now, my hair looks nothing like that :)

[Roadblock Recall]

It's hood, look below............


Besides, I've had long hair for over 20 years now, my hair looks nothing like that :)

I'm not sure how that picture proves it's a hood. Unless you're talking about the blue CC hood.

[AMERICAN_Hero7]

I pose this question

if indeed it is a hood in the cartoon, not disputing the fact that it is a hood in the comic and on the toy, them why in God's name would he wear is hood/cowl underneath all of those rubber masks he so loved to rip off his face in front of the joes?

That is an absolutely amazing point you just made!!! Let's see who debates this...

[paulpratt]

The cartoon and the comic are two separate universes, they have absolutely nothing to do with each other. In the comic, Zartan wears a hood, in the cartoon it is his hair.

[esg2145]

no, it's hair

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e213/Surlon/GI%20Joe/zartan1.jpg


http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e213/Surlon/GI%20Joe/zartan2.jpg





The ends of that hood are just frayed in those pictures :)

(that second one is pretty hard to deny though........)





............maybe it's long hair UNDER the hood?!


Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket! :)

[AMERICAN_Hero7]

no, it's hair

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e213/Surlon/GI%20Joe/zartan1.jpg


http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e213/Surlon/GI%20Joe/zartan2.jpg

The Best clips I've seen of Zartan's...HAIR!

[DPrime]

since when did the comic trump the cartoon? they are completely seperate entities.

Irrelevant - as I also said (and you failed to quote), the TOY ITSELF is the "canon" when it comes to GI Joe. Both the toy and the comic were developed after the toy (in most cases - the Baroness is a notable exception).

[Roadblock Recall]

The ends of that hood are just frayed in those pictures :)

(that second one is pretty hard to deny though........)





............maybe it's long hair UNDER the hood?!


Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket! :)


I think the first picture is the most revealing. It's being wind blown so if it's hood it would fly off of his head. But it seems to be latched on pretty tight to his scalp.

[Mandingo Rex]

http://www.queencheetah.com/Thundercats/liono1.jpg

He's very Thundercats-ish. Especially with those green eyes and eye makeup/tattoo.

[Roadblock Recall]

Irrelevant - as I also said (and you failed to quote), the TOY ITSELF is the "canon" when it comes to GI Joe. Both the toy and the comic were developed after the toy (in most cases - the Baroness is a notable exception).

I see, so every human in the world other than Destro is the exact same height? According to your silly toy canon theory, that's how the universe is.

[Mandingo Rex]

This is the best thread created recently that STILL spawns an argument! I love it!

Destro also talks with a malleable mouth in a steel helmet on the cartoon, and there were ghosts and furby creatures and all sorts of other silliness as well.

So I don't know if anyone's cartoon logic will hold up too well, but each person has his own canon to go by. I prefer the cartoon because it was widely distributed to me, and I saw more characters in the cartoons than I owned figures as a kid, so I didn't even know Zartan had a hood til years later.

Fun topic, no matter who "wins" the argument. It's hair in the cartoon.

[Roadblock Recall]

no matter who "wins" the argument. It's hair in the cartoon.

lol..but that's what the argument is all about. ha ha ha

[~Synder Corps.~]

There was an episode way back when, when Z actually pulls the hood lower over his eyes

"GAAAAAH...Cursed Sunlight!"

[NeoDragonKnight]

http://www.queencheetah.com/Thundercats/liono1.jpg

He's very Thundercats-ish. Especially with those green eyes and eye makeup/tattoo.

that is exactly what I thought when I first saw the pics

[copperhead33]

wow, that's really weird.
I mean, it's a hood. pure and simple, it's just kind of cool that some of you guys saw it as hair. I've never heard of anyone seeing it like that.
I mean you're all crazy, but it's still cool.
Just in a lunatic kinda way.

[~Synder Corps.~]

and besides...if it's hair, why didn't it change color like his teeth when he was in sunlight...

Guess it really dosen't matter to a guy who's legs and chest glow red when he's angry

[valdin]

http://www.yojoe.com/magazine/2008/09/images/wave-11-zartan-card-front-lrg.jpg this is what I go by. That is the concept art from the original box to the original figure that came out in 83. As far as cartoon goes, i dunno, a hair hood explains it for me lol

[Roadblock Recall]

it's just kind of cool that some of you guys saw it as hair. I've never heard of anyone seeing it like that.

um...how can you see the pictures on the previous page and NOT see it as hair?

[slim19722]

I pose this question

if indeed it is a hood in the cartoon, not disputing the fact that it is a hood in the comic and on the toy, them why in God's name would he wear is hood/cowl underneath all of those rubber masks he so loved to rip off his face in front of the joes?

Ok, might as well ask, why would Zartan still wear the black make-up under the mask and why he would still have his regular uniform under the disguise as well? Sure the shoulder armor alone would make him bulky.

[n3rf]

um...how can you see the pictures on the previous page and NOT see it as hair?
I'm still not 100% convinced RR isn't pulling our leg...otherwise:

Any chance the artist who drew that scene didn't know it was a hood/cowl?

Go to the same site and look in the errors section. Maybe it was the same guy who thought Snow Cats were pilotless (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=34&pos=0) Cobra vehicles (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=9&pos=1), Flint had 3 hands (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=random&cat=9&pos=-13124), and Scarlett's name was "Scaret O'Hala (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=34&pos=4)" and maybe he wasn't a huge Joe fan.

He probably wasn't good w/ money (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=34&pos=15) either.

[Roadblock Recall]

http://www.yojoe.com/magazine/2008/09/images/wave-11-zartan-card-front-lrg.jpg this is what I go by. That is the concept art from the original box to the original figure that came out in 83. As far as cartoon goes, i dunno, a hair hood explains it for me lol

nobody is disputing that it's a hood in the comic or the toy. we're just talking about the toon here.

[Roadblock Recall]

I'm still not 100% convinced RR isn't pulling our leg...otherwise:

Any chance the artist who drew that scene didn't know it was a hood/cowl?

Go to the same site and look in the errors section. Maybe it was the same guy who thought Snow Cats were pilotless (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=34&pos=0) Cobra vehicles (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=9&pos=1), Flint had 3 hands (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=random&cat=9&pos=-13124), and Scarlett's name was "Scaret O'Hala (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=34&pos=4)" and maybe he wasn't a huge Joe fan.

He probably wasn't good w/ money (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=34&pos=15) either.

are there any instances in the cartoon that contradict it being hair? Is it really so hard for you guys to believe that the animators just intended it to be hair?

[Mandingo Rex]

I've asked 10 buddies, all of whom are NOT Joe fans and live this shit 24/7... They all say hair, not hood.

A few said, "wig", which is sort of a hood of hair, but it's still in the "Hair" realm. haha.

JoeToonArchive.com - Countdown for Zartan/026 (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=8&pos=25)

[sgt.bludhound]

I always thought it was a hood, but after seeing those pics from Roadblock_Recall I might think twice, i wasn't sure myself watching the cartoons...

This is a good topic

[Mandingo Rex]

JoeToonArchive.com - Countdown for Zartan/045 (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=8&pos=44)

You can look it up in "Moden Medicine". Doc's apparently been reading it recently. It chronicles cartoon hair's tendency to look like a hood, and vice versa.

Sergeant Slaughter's so confused, he's trying to shit in the corner:

http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=94&pos=15

[n3rf]

are there any instances in the cartoon that contradict it being hair? Is it really so hard for you guys to believe that the animators just intended it to be hair?

Are there any instances in the cartoon where somebody's hair never has texture and some sort of part (like was previously mentioned)?

What Zartan would really look like w/ long hair (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osZ52A-_kpQ&feature=related).

[paulpratt]

Go to the same site and look in the errors section. Maybe it was the same guy who thought Snow Cats were pilotless (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=34&pos=0) Cobra vehicles (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=9&pos=1), Flint had 3 hands (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=random&cat=9&pos=-13124), and Scarlett's name was "Scaret O'Hala (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=34&pos=4)" and maybe he wasn't a huge Joe fan.

He probably wasn't good w/ money (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=34&pos=15) either.

The Snowcat is the result of a missing cell. The 3 hands thing is the result of two cells from different times getting mixed up. The other errors are a failure to look at the work previously done in the scene, mainly because of hasty deadlines and simply a failure to understand english or anything that pertains to an american tv show. You have to remember their isn't just 1 english guy animating this. There are literally a hundred (at least) - probably asian (IE korean) - people animating a tv show.

[Roadblock Recall]

Are there any instances in the cartoon where somebody's hair never has texture and some sort of part (like was previously mentioned)?

What Zartan would really look like w/ long hair (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osZ52A-_kpQ&feature=related).

I have no idea what you're getting at with your question. What i'm saying is, i've shown pretty compelling evidence that it's definitely hair. Yet none has been offered to show that it's most likely a hood. Until some evidence is provided to disprove that it's hair, I'd say the hair pictures stand.

[AMERICAN_Hero7]

Are there any instances in the cartoon where somebody's hair never has texture and some sort of part (like was previously mentioned)?

What Zartan would really look like w/ long hair (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osZ52A-_kpQ&feature=related).

All the hair I've seen on the cartoon so far is pretty texture-less

[n3rf]

The Snowcat is the result of a missing cell. The 3 hands thing is the result of two cells from different times getting mixed up. The other errors are a failure to look at the work previously done in the scene, mainly because of hasty deadlines and simply a failure to understand english or anything that pertains to an american tv show. You have to remember their isn't just 1 english guy animating this. There are literally a hundred (at least) - probably asian (IE korean) - people animating a tv show.

Well, you kinda got my point. I say kinda because you missed the hyperbole but then explained to me the two main themes of my post which were: (1) "the ppl who draw the cartoons aren't necessarily experts in their subjects" and (2) "mistakes slip through."

I'm also going to go out on a limb and say this (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=94&pos=17) isn't beautiful, long flowing hair.

[AMERICAN_Hero7]

Are there any instances in the cartoon where somebody's hair never has texture and some sort of part (like was previously mentioned)?

What Zartan would really look like w/ long hair (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osZ52A-_kpQ&feature=related).

I'm pretty sure that's a perm he got to make the video

[esg2145]

Ok, all you, "it's hair" people, explain THIS then -

YOJOE.COM | Zartan (http://www.yojoe.com/action/07/cardedimages/zartan13.shtml)


HOOD! :)

[Roadblock Recall]

I'm also going to go out on a limb and say this (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=94&pos=17) isn't beautiful, long flowing hair.

of course not. but that's serpentor, not zartan. serpentor's hair or lack of hair has never been in dispute here.

[Roadblock Recall]

Ok, all you, "it's hair" people, explain THIS then -

YOJOE.COM | Zartan (http://www.yojoe.com/action/07/cardedimages/zartan13.shtml)


HOOD! :)

that's the toy, this thread already concedes that the toy and the comic use a hood. did you read the thread? or at least the original post?

[lister]

We're arguing over hair now? These are Joes, people. They're not Barbies. Jesus, take this debate to dreamhouse.com or thatbitchhaseverything.net where it belongs.

[n3rf]

RR, you got me...I won't be able to make an argument against your one scene other than it was the mistake of an artist who didn't know the character.

Just curious, what's your opinion on why Snake Eyes never spoke in the cartoon? Was it the back story explained in the comic book or was it something more simple like he always blows it w/ chicks (Scaret O'Hala in this case) when he opens his mouth?

Unfortunately, I don't have any scenes or youtube clips to argue either point.

;)

[Roadblock Recall]

Just curious, what's your opinion on why Snake Eyes never spoke in the cartoon? Was it the back story explained in the comic book or was it something more simple like he always blows it w/ chicks (Scaret O'Hala in this case) when he opens his mouth?


It was never explained, or even mentioned why he didn't speak. I give no creedence to the comic back story when trying to explain the animated characters, the two just don't mesh well.
As for him getting chicks, I don't think I ever saw him hitting on any women, so we don't know whether or not he blows it with chicks or not.

[Recondo]

Ok, might as well ask, why would Zartan still wear the black make-up under the mask and why he would still have his regular uniform under the disguise as well? Sure the shoulder armor alone would make him bulky.

this truly is a hairy subject....HA!

perhaps you didn't see the images earlier in the thread my premise destroying logical friend

[spacemonkeymafia]

Maybe its Animation errors. There were many times were they had miscolored Seekers in TF........its a hood people.

[Roadblock Recall]

RR, you got me...I won't be able to make an argument against your one scene other than it was the mistake of an artist who didn't know the character.

1 example > 0 examples

Was it the mistake of one artist distinctly showed it as hair? Or the mistake of the other artists who never thought to identify it as a hood?

[Roadblock Recall]

Maybe its Animation errors. There were many times were they had miscolored Seekers in TF........its a hood people.

coloring errors happen in animation, it's inevitable. this was intentionally drawn as hair. it's not a hood, sorry.

[spacemonkeymafia]

Well when I watched the show I had no problem telling it was hood......and I was 6 or 7 and didnt have the toy to know a difference......

And a Animation Error could be many things.......like Bumblebee being seen during headmasters when he was already changed into Goldbug.......

[Roadblock Recall]

Well when I watched the show I had no problem telling it was hood......


were you previously influenced by the comic?

[Roadblock Recall]

And a Animation Error could be many things.......like Bumblebee being seen during headmasters when he was already changed into Goldbug.......

GI Joe the Movie has Lifeline helping to store the B.E.T. back at the base, when it was already established that he's in Himilayas searching for Roadblock's team.

[spacemonkeymafia]

were you previously influenced by the comic?

Didnt read the comic till I got in Highschool....

[DPrime]

I see, so every human in the world other than Destro is the exact same height? According to your silly toy canon theory, that's how the universe is.

Don't be a fool.

GI Joe is, first and foremost, a toyline. Both the comic and the cartoon were created, basically, as advertisements to sell toys.

With a very few exceptions, characters were conceived of and designed as action figures. This includes Zartan, as far as I'm aware.

The toy Zartan was designed with a hood. Animators back then were known to make SEVERAL mistakes. It's quite obvious that the few instances (or was it just one?) when it was animated as hair is a mistake.

Remember those episodes when Iceberg was animated as a white guy in a few scenes? Your whole argument could be used as a basis for Iceberg actually being white!

[Recondo]

another interesing question even though we agree that it is a hood in the comic continuity and on the toy, what purpose does a piece of burlap provide Zartan? If its to protect his skin from the accursed sunlight then why did he where a sleevless belly shirt, and how exactly does this tea cozy stay on his noggin? With topstick? glue? nanotech? bobby pins?

[spacemonkeymafia]

Animation Errors people........it happens.....

[Roadblock Recall]

If I'm being a fool, you're being proved wrong by a fool.

The fact that characters in the cartoons were BASED on action figures, does not show that an artists intention was anything different than what was shown. Toy "canon" does not completely define a cartoon's "canon". Different universes bud, sorry. If toys were being translated directly to animation, then why is there no mention of Duke and Falcon being brothers on the filecards..or in the comics? Why does Bazooka's filecard not describe him as a bumbling unintelligent lumox? He seems to be described quite the opposite.

Iceberg being white is a coloring mistake..that's a far cry from an artists intention of drawing actual hair. The drawer is not the same person who colors the pictures.

[Roadblock Recall]

Animation Errors people........

quite different from animation intent. or storyline errors. I'm not sure why you are comparing apples to oranges.

[spacemonkeymafia]

quite different from animation intent. or storyline errors. I'm not sure why you are comparing apples to oranges.

Lol...because sometimes a dude drawing the cartoon might draw an apple when it was meant to be an orange........

[Roadblock Recall]

another interesing question even though we agree that it is a hood in the comic continuity and on the toy, what purpose does a piece of burlap provide Zartan? If its to protect his skin from the accursed sunlight then why did he where a sleevless belly shirt, and how exactly does this tea cozy stay on his nogging? With topstick? glue? nanotech? bobby pins?

real reason, I'd guess, is that it just looks really cool. ha ha ha
practical reason...and this is a stretch...maybe because the sun shines directly down on the head, but not necessarily blaring down on his belly.

[USAgent]

One time it's mistakenly drawn as hair does not make it hair. The toys were the guide for the toy commercial (what some of you call a cartoon) The designers/animators would have been given the toys as a starting point to draw what the characters look like. The drawing of Zartan would have been of a guy with a hood on. The cheap animation means that if you don't know (from the toy) that he has a hood on, you would think it's hair. Some animator once drew it as hair (thanks Roadblock recall for the pic) ((i can imagine someone will report this error to the cartoon database so it can be listed in the errors section)) but that doesn't change the fact that the design and chacter key was based off a guy with a hood.

[copperhead33]

um...how can you see the pictures on the previous page and NOT see it as hair?

'cause it's a paused screen crap of and error in animation.
it happens in a lot of cartoons that where animated overseas,
large teams working on a series will make mistakes or add something in just for the fun of it.

Go back and watch some g1 transformers, or thundercats.
those too are especially loaded with 'em.

and this even goes back further, There's an episode of the flintstones where the black triangles on freds suit are black circles for one or two frames.
Now should i get a screen cap and post it on the internet and say OMG those triangles are really circles?
no of course not, it's a mistake.
they happen, and it's cool to find them and point them out.

so long story short, It's a hood.

[spacemonkeymafia]

.....and sometimes the artist didnt have the figure to go by unless it was the original 13......sometimes Artist have only a prototype to go by.......which isnt colored sometimes...so mistakes will happen....just like i said about Ironhide and Rachet....they didnt have the toy in front of them to go from.......

And pretty much when the new joes and cobras debuted on TV the Toys were already out...so kids could watch the Show then beg mom or dad to drive them to the store to get the new Character of the week.........which i recall that when the Eps for Arise Serpentor Arise were on in the afternoon when I got home from school they also had the Serpentor Commercial during the show........

[WildBill]

It's supposed to be a hood. Obviously in 1 or two of the episodes they've drawn it as hair by accident. Zartan is allergic to sunlight and thus wears a hood. They even reference Zartan's hatred of sunlight in several episodes. Therefore hood, except maybe indoors where his hair looks just like his hood.....there mystery solved. HA!

[Roadblock Recall]

One time it's mistakenly drawn as hair does not make it hair. The toys were the guide for the toy commercial (what some of you call a cartoon) The designers/animators would have been given the toys as a starting point to draw what the characters look like. The drawing of Zartan would have been of a guy with a hood on. The cheap animation means that if you don't know (from the toy) that he has a hood on, you would think it's hair. Some animator once drew it as hair (thanks Roadblock recall for the pic) ((i can imagine someone will report this error to the cartoon database so it can be listed in the errors section)) but that doesn't change the fact that the design and chacter key was based off a guy with a hood.

do you know whether or not the animators decided to go with hair rather than a hood? seems quite believable that the animators just thought hair was a better idea than a hood.

the question of this thread is not what the original premise of Zartan was and thus what the cartoon MUST be based off of. The question is whether the cartoon and JUST THE CARTOON is hair or hood. In the cartoon, it has never been indicated as a hood. People who never had the toy, and never read the comic see it for what it was intended to be, hair. Hell, even after I got the toy years later, I assumed it was hair. Why? Because of my prior experience with it being hair from the cartoon. The guy a couple pages back asked 10 people who knew nothing of GI Joe, and they all said it was hair. The cartoon, as a stand alone entity, shows Zartan to have long brown hair on his head, not a hood.

[spacemonkeymafia]

Ok I just asked my female Coworker who knows nothing of GI Joe......she said..........."HOOD"....

[Syn3sthesia]

How in the f...? that looks like hair to me!

[Roadblock Recall]

.....and sometimes the artist didnt have the figure to go by unless it was the original 13......sometimes Artist have only a prototype to go by.......which isnt colored sometimes...so mistakes will happen....just like i said about Ironhide and Rachet....they didnt have the toy in front of them to go from.......


so the animators mistakingly translated the toy as having hair, so what?

[Roadblock Recall]

Ok I just asked my female Coworker who knows nothing of GI Joe......she said..........."HOOD"....

but she's a female..which means she's unintelligent. heh heh heh

[spacemonkeymafia]

so the animators mistakingly translated the toy as having hair, so what?

Because again Animation errors will happen.........its a hood in the Cartoon.........always was.......

[Roadblock Recall]

How in the f...? that looks like hair to me!

yeah, some of these guys just have a really difficult time seperating the cartoon from the comic and toy.

[spacemonkeymafia]

but she's a female..which means she's unintelligent. heh heh heh

LOL.........but she is someone who knows nothing on the subject...and she knew it was a hood.......

[Roadblock Recall]

Because again Animation errors will happen.........its a hood in the Cartoon.........always was.......


always???

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e213/Surlon/GI%20Joe/zartan1.jpg

[spacemonkeymafia]

yeah, some of these guys just have a really difficult time seperating the cartoon from the comic and toy.

Not true...like I said I learned about GI Joe through the Cartoon and knew it was a hood....at 6 years old. I just watched Revenge of Cobra
and it looks like a hood to me..........

[copperhead33]

People who never had the toy, and never read the comic see it for what it was intended to be, hair. Hell, even after I got the toy years later, I assumed it was hair.

ok, so if i read a book that describes the sky as blue, then watch a movie and in the sky is blue,
the see a fingerpainting by a 4 four year old and he's depicted the sky as green...does that make the sky green? of course not.

by what i've quoted you as saying, it'd be fair to say that those of us that did have the toy, and did read the comics, are more informed to say offer the definitive answer.
and we're saying it's a hood.

[Roadblock Recall]

Because again Animation errors will happen.........its a hood in the Cartoon.........always was.......

true

but the situation you described is animators not having the proper toy in front of them when they first animate the character in cartoon form, right?

[USAgent]

do you know whether or not the animators decided to go with hair rather than a hood? seems quite believable that the animators just thought hair was a better idea than a hood.

the question of this thread is not what the original premise of Zartan was and thus what the cartoon MUST be based off of. .

The cartoon is BASED on the toy, that's the point a lot of folks are making. bad animation and an error in one episode doesn't change what the character key was based on. So YES the animation is based on a toy with a hood. I understand your question "could they have changed it to hair to make it easier on the animators" My answer:No, Still, it sounds like a good question from someone to send in to Toyfare magazine, they're pretty good at tracking down the people involved and getting solid answers frmo the people that made the decisions.

[spacemonkeymafia]

always???

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e213/Surlon/GI%20Joe/zartan1.jpg

It doesnt happen always thats one animation cell.....how about show me the whole scene put together in one piece.........Explain Fred Flinstones Circles and Triangles then.......ow..ow...I can....Animation Error......

[copperhead33]

ps...

this is probably the dumbest argument in the history of the internet.

[spacemonkeymafia]

true

but the situation you described is animators not having the proper toy in front of them when they first animate the character in cartoon form, right?

True which means the F..ked up one maybe two eps...........

[Roadblock Recall]

ok, so if i read a book that describes the sky as blue, then watch a movie and in the sky is blue,
the see a fingerpainting by a 4 four year old and he's depicted the sky as green...does that make the sky green? of course not.


in the universe of his imagination? yes, it is green.

again, you are trying to imply that just because it is one way in a comic book or toy, then it must also be that way in a cartoon. your logic here is flawed.

[spacemonkeymafia]

ps...

this is probably the dumbest argument in the history of the internet.

Ahh its fun though.........like who would win between Supes and The Hulk....

[copperhead33]

ps...

this is probably the dumbest argument in the history of the internet.

hey this double posted.

anyways, hulk would totally win.

[Roadblock Recall]

It doesnt happen always thats one animation cell.....how about show me the whole scene put together in one piece.........Explain Fred Flinstones Circles and Triangles then.......ow..ow...I can....Animation Error......

a square is a square, a circle is a circle.

Zartan is never deliberately drawn to show he's wearing a hood rather than having hair. All other pictures, other than the one I posted, can be seen as hair or as hood. One scene specifically shows it as hair. NO scenes ever specifically show it as a hood.

[spacemonkeymafia]

This looks like Zartan with hair...

YouTube - Cobra Commander Beats Up Hollywood Director! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osZ52A-_kpQ)

and that was drawn to be hair.........hes wearing a hood the rest of the time............

Cold Slither that......

[Roadblock Recall]

The cartoon is BASED on the toy, that's the point a lot of folks are making. bad animation and an error in one episode doesn't change what the character key was based on.

Doesn't matter what the cartoon is based on. Creative liberties can be taken.
Is Bazooka a silly goof in the toy line or in comic?
Is Serpentor really made from Sgt Slaughter's DNA?
Is Falcon really Duke's brother?
Cover girl has long blonde hair for an entire mini-series. You gonna tell me creative liberties weren't taken there?
Zartan doesn't have clear pads on his thighs or chest.
Nemesis Enforcer has much larger wings in the toon than in the toy, and there is no tentacles on his back.
Barbecue has curly red hair...my god, that was never shown in Toy form!!! Must be some kind of animation error.

[Roadblock Recall]

This looks like Zartan with hair...

YouTube - Cobra Commander Beats Up Hollywood Director! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osZ52A-_kpQ)

and that was drawn to be hair.........hes wearing a hood the rest of the time............

Cold Slither that......

right, dying and perming hair just wasn't common for 80s rock bands.

[Recondo]

look at the top edge....more hair

JoeToonArchive.com - ROC 1 In the Cobra's Pit/0130 (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=28&pos=130)

[spacemonkeymafia]

Doesn't matter what the cartoon is based on. Creative liberties can be taken.
Is Bazooka a silly goof in the toy line or in comic?
Is Serpentor really made from Sgt Slaughter's DNA?
Is Falcon really Duke's brother?
Cover girl has long blonde hair for an entire mini-series. You gonna tell me creative liberties weren't taken there?
Nemesis Enforcer has much larger wings in the toon than in the toy, and there is no tentacles on his back.
Barbecue has curly red hair...my god, that was never shown in Toy form!!! Must be some kind of animation error.

Well Cover girl was a model they dye their hair from time to time.......

[Recondo]

and here's some more on the back edge of his HAIR

JoeToonArchive.com - ROC 1 In the Cobra's Pit/0135 (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=28&pos=135)

[spacemonkeymafia]

right, dying and perming hair just wasn't common for 80s rock bands.

Dude he is a master of disguise that was a wig and not to mention a joke......They were never Rock Stars......

The point was that looks like hair frame after frame......the one frame you showed was an accident.....

[spacemonkeymafia]

People show us Hood believers actual footage not frames.......

[DPrime]

If I'm being a fool, you're being proved wrong by a fool.

lol, does not seem to be the consensus I'm afraid!

I'm done arguing this, it is a waste of time.

[Roadblock Recall]

People show us Hood believers actual footage not frames.......

that is footage, paused for you so you don't miss the evidence.

try showing some footage of it being distinctly depicted as a hood.

[Monkeywrench]

as a kid I always though it was hair in the toon.

[spacemonkeymafia]

Yeah im out also......its a hood...but I understand why you think its not.......anyway have fun......Hood......with this......Hood.........Ill be on later........its a hood........anyway love you all.....Hood......but must go eat........hood...........hood......hood......hood ..

[spacemonkeymafia]

Yeah its a hood............

[Roadblock Recall]

Dude he is a master of disguise that was a wig

prove it was a wig

[Recondo]

Dude he is a master of disguise that was a wig and not to mention a joke......They were never Rock Stars......

The point was that looks like hair frame after frame......the one frame you showed was an accident.....

was it ? see my above posts

and this as well for good measure

JoeToonArchive.com - ROC 1 In the Cobra's Pit/0198 (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=28&pos=196)

[Syn3sthesia]

yeah, some of these guys just have a really difficult time seperating the cartoon from the comic and toy.

Maybe because I could care less about comics.

[copperhead33]

the hair frames are much like dinosaur bones.
they're their to test your faith.
if you non believing infidels don't have faith, how will you enter G.I. joe heaven and get your 100 MIB Yellow Stalkers that are waiting for you when you die?

[Roadblock Recall]

The point was that looks like hair frame after frame......the one frame you showed was an accident.....


frame after frame? his hair is like that through the entire scene. here's another.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e213/Surlon/GI%20Joe/zartan2.jpg

[spacemonkeymafia]

prove it was a wig

Well for one look at the other dreadnoks wearing Wigs and fake mohawks.........and being a master of disguise....who was trying to look like what they thought hair bands looked like...and the fact he never wore it ever again....but if its real hair then it goes against the BROWN HOOD being HAIR.........For real Im done though.......still think its a hood.........

[Roadblock Recall]

if you non believing infidels don't have faith, how will you enter G.I. joe heaven and get your 100 MIB Yellow Stalkers that are waiting for you when you die?


LOL

Dude, can I quote that in my signature?

[Roadblock Recall]

Well for one look at the other dreadnoks wearing Wigs and fake mohawks.........and being a master of disguise....who was trying to look like what they thought hair bands looked like...and the fact he never wore it ever again....but if its real hair then it goes against the BROWN HOOD being HAIR.........For real Im done though.......still think its a hood.........

what makes you think Buzzer's mohawk was fake?

[copperhead33]

ha, yeah sure.

[Monkeywrench]

it was hair in the toon and a hood everywhere else

[Roadblock Recall]

Recondo, can you make one post that has all of the examples of hair? It will be easier to point the hoody people to that post for all of the examples, since they can't seem to provide any conflicting examples.

[spacemonkeymafia]

what makes you think Buzzer's mohawk was fake?

Dude for real..can someone shave their head and grow it back i one Ep? It took me 2 years to get my hair as long as his.....not 30 mins.....

My did you buy a box of straws or what?

[Roadblock Recall]

it was hair in the toon and a hood everywhere else

that sums it up perfectly

[Roadblock Recall]

Dude for real..can someone shave their head and grow it back i one Ep? It took me 2 years to get my hair as long as his.....not 30 mins.....

My did you buy a box of straws or what?

he grew his hair back out in that episode?

[spacemonkeymafia]

he grew his hair back out in that episode?

yes he did.........

[Mandingo Rex]

I just asked the Dreadnoks on my desk, WTF, how come it took Wave 11 to get a proper classic Zartan?

Buzzer replied "He was gettin' his hair did for the cartoon show, mate!"

Hair.

[Roadblock Recall]

yes he did.........

show me

[Snow cat]

I just stop looking at lame skier.

[Roadblock Recall]

Ha, this is awesome. But it still doesn't solve the hood/hair question.

HAIR YouTube - Zartan CAW (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACWqGG6ZoHQ)

HOOD YouTube - The Master of DISGUISE "ZARTAN" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dusSa91DG8&feature=related)

[Recondo]

look at the top edge....more hair

JoeToonArchive.com - ROC 1 In the Cobra's Pit/0130 (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=28&pos=130)

and here's some more on the back edge of his HAIR

JoeToonArchive.com - ROC 1 In the Cobra's Pit/0135 (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=28&pos=135)

was it ? see my above posts

and this as well for good measure

JoeToonArchive.com - ROC 1 In the Cobra's Pit/0198 (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=28&pos=196)


there you go

[Roadblock Recall]

one more...with siblings. This one's the best!

YouTube - G.I.Joe Enemy Zartan's Family (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvAohqlBSsc&feature=related)

[Mandingo Rex]

Roadblock Recall, I feel you. The cartoon showed it as hair.

If Matt Trakker had been in the show, he would have proven it. Then, he could have also solved why he's in the 25th line while having dicksquat to do with G.I. Joe in any media.

[n3rf]

Nobody puts up this amount of fight w/out actually believing it...so now I'm just worried about you, RR. At first, I thought this was just a silly argument, but now...

Awesome how the guy in your YouTube video who made it as hair even admits that he's not sure. Besides, what's that, a bullet proof vest?

in the universe of his imagination? yes, it is green.
With your argument, are you saying that he is right in saying that the sky is green? If so, you're kinda admitting that you don't recognize the difference between truth and perception...and now we're getting into some heavy Schizo-type stuff (fitting w/ this being about Zartan).

Anyway, one could make the argument that in the universe of your imagination (as well as a handful of other ppl on here and ten dudes who aren't even into GI Joe) Zartan has long hair in the cartoon. But in the truth of it all, what color was the sky really?

I will acknowledge that in the universe of your imagination, that is hair on Zartan's head in the cartoon and only the cartoon. But now I come asking for your help.

Animation errors and techniques to show one's disheveled look aside, how do you explain how one goes about purposely drawing a hood/cowl? Because that's what you're asking for. You say you have examples of it purposely being drawn as hair but you ask others to produce pictures of it being purposely drawn as a hood. And I'd love to be able to show that to you, but I don't know how...other than just looking at it.

Help me help you.

[Monkeywrench]

Roadblock Recall, I feel you. The cartoon showed it as hair.

If Matt Trakker had been in the show, he would have proven it. Then, he could have also solved why he's in the 25th line while having dicksquat to do with G.I. Joe in any media.

lol

[Roadblock Recall]

With your argument, are you saying that he is right in saying that the sky is green? If so, you're kinda admitting that you don't recognize the difference between truth and perception...and now we're getting into some heavy Schizo-type stuff (ironically enough talking about Zartan).


reality huh? aren't we talking about a cartoon where people shoot lasers, we see ghosts, fatal furies, people who feel pain experienced by their twin, half-snake dictators, and genetically engineered emperors?

[Roadblock Recall]

Animation errors and techniques to show one's disheveled look aside, how do you explain how one goes about purposely drawing a hood/cowl? Because that's what you're asking for. You say you have examples of it purposely being drawn as hair but you ask others to produce pictures of it being purposely drawn as a hood. And I'd love to be able to show that to you, but I don't know how...other than just looking at it.

Help me help you.

oh, maybe having it flap around like a hood? how about actually showing the character removing the hood? do you really lack the imagination to think of ways to show something is a piece of cloth rather than hair?

quite a few pictures have been shown of it being hair, from several different episodes. not one has been provided showing it's a hood. Logically, it would seem the animators intended for it to be hair....or is it that their drawing hands did something their brains didn't want them to do?

[Mandingo Rex]

http://www.joetoonarchive.com/albums/S2%200002%20Computer/0125.gif

http://www.joetoonarchive.com/albums/S2%200002%20Computer/0126.gif

[Zefram]

Anybody who has the Revenge of Cobra DVD, you can pretty clearly see strands of his "hood" blowing in the wind. Sorry, whatever it was supposed to be, the animators obviously thought it was hair and drew it as such.

Edit: Holy crap! Eight pages? Really?

[Roadblock Recall]

Anybody who has the Revenge of Cobra DVD, you can pretty clearly see strands of his "hood" blowing in the wind. Sorry, whatever it was supposed to be, the animators obviously thought it was hair and drew it as such.

Edit: Holy crap! Eight pages? Really?

about where in the DVD? I'll check it out tonight.

[Mandingo Rex]

That'd be hair strands.

JoeToonArchive.com - Jungle Trap/0131 (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=10&pos=124)

Or a hood woven out of hair-like materials.

[slim19722]

If Matt Trakker had been in the show, he would have proven it. Then, he could have also solved why he's in the 25th line while having dicksquat to do with G.I. Joe in any media.

Hasbro already said why Matt Trakker is in the line. One of the Joe desingers is a huge MASK fan and he wanted Hasbro to bring the line back and at the time Hasbro said they couldn't. But the desinger was allowed to add Trakker a a one time homage to the MASK line.

[Mandingo Rex]

Hasbro already said why Matt Trakker is in the line. One of the Joe desingers is a huge MASK fan and he wanted Hasbro to bring the line back and at the time Hasbro said they couldn't. But the desinger was allowed to add Trakker a a one time homage to the MASK line.

That makes as much sense as some of my clients asking "My daughter really likes kittens... do you think we could squeeze a kitten into the ad?"

Doesn't mean it makes any sense.

I like Batman, but he's not going to be in my wedding party.

Zartan isn't either.(His wavy brown hair takes too long to get right.)

[slim19722]

That makes as much sense as some of my clients asking "My daughter really likes kittens... do you think we could squeeze a kitten into the ad?"

Doesn't mean it makes any sense.

I like Batman, but he's not going to be in my wedding party.

What ad? Your in charge of your wedding party so you can choose if you want Batman there or not. Just like Hasbro could choose to put Trakker in the Joe line, which they did. Those in charge can do what they want.

[sgt.bludhound]

IT's Hair UNDER A HOOD!!! DISCUSSION OVER!

[Mandingo Rex]

What ad? Your in charge of your wedding party so you can choose if you want Batman there or not. Just like Hasbro could choose to put Trakker in the Joe line, which they did. Those in charge can do what they want.

The ads that I put together as an art director, when the dumbass clients ask for something stupid that doesn't belong.

I've never asked "Whose idea was it". That's what you answered. Just because Ricky at Hasbro wanted a character from a completely unrelated toy line in another doesn't mean it makes any sense, and that's what bugs me.

Just saying "oh, he belongs there, cause Hasbro put him there." is as sensible as saying "Zartan is wearing a hood, even though it looks like hair in 90% of the cartoon images you can find."

Snake Eyes' toy was black/gray, and the show he was purple.

Lady Jaye also had a hat as a figure, are you going to say that her hair in the cartoon was just a hair-shaped hat, and was brown instead of a green ballcap?

Really. As funny as this thread is, it's also sort of painful! Haha.

[Monkeywrench]

Hasbro already said why Matt Trakker is in the line. One of the Joe desingers is a huge MASK fan and he wanted Hasbro to bring the line back and at the time Hasbro said they couldn't. But the desinger was allowed to add Trakker a a one time homage to the MASK line.

They should have told him to go F himself and make a custom. Give me a damn Recondo instead.

[Roadblock Recall]

Lady Jaye also had a hat as a figure, are you going to say that her hair in the cartoon was just a hair-shaped hat, and was brown instead of a green ballcap?


an excellent example

[n3rf]

http://www.joetoonarchive.com/albums/S2%200002%20Computer/0125.gif

Yeah, see, mandingo_rex shows this picture (I'm assuming) to illustrate that it's hair but the comparison between the texture of the disguise and his hood is night and day (to me). But, I mean, I used to do illustration so maybe I'm just stuck in my ways.

I thought it was going to be like a needle in a haystack to find a picture of a cloth, but thanks again to mandingo_rex I found this:

http://www.joetoonarchive.com/albums/S2%200002%20Computer/0137.gif

See how it's all one object? There's no lines of separation, just subtle folding/overlapping lines.

http://www.joetoonarchive.com/albums/S2%200002%20Computer/0138.gif

See the texture indicators? The implication of parting, separation and flow?

http://www.joetoonarchive.com/albums/S2%200002%20Computer/0139.gif

I don't know. Still has more characteristics of a piece of cloth rather than hair to me...Guess I'll just have to say I see the sky as being purple or orange (but living in AZ will do that to you).

oh, maybe having it flap around like a hood?Well, somebody already posted a pic w/ him and CC where there's a tiny piece of separation but the majority of it was still a "glob" of sorts.

how about actually showing the character removing the hood?
Well, I can't show the character removing the hood if the animators never drew it. I can't show him w/out his make up either. Does that mean those marks on his face were permanent? Who knows, new thread topic? Maybe. Possibly. Oh, and I can't show Snake Eyes had a face either, because, well, they never drew him removing his mask and looking into the camera.

do you really lack the imagination to think of ways to show something is a piece of cloth rather than hair?
You've got me beat in the imagination department because I didn't see it as hair to begin with, but I think "memory" or "idle time" would be better words to use if we're talking about searching for pictures of a cartoon from the '80s that might convince a few ppl over the internet. Regardless, these actions will not yield a cure to cancer.

quite a few pictures have been shown of it being hair, from several different episodes. not one has been provided showing it's a hood. Logically, it would seem the animators intended for it to be hair....or is it that their drawing hands did something their brains didn't want them to do?
Well, I mean, if you're still not convinced than there's little left that I want to do to try to convince you otherwise. If you want to keep saying the sky is green, then go right ahead. I concede victory to you because you've got more heart in this argument than I. Just don't let the laughter coming from the back of the room interrupt your thought process.

[Mandingo Rex]

Yeah, see, mandingo_rex shows this picture (I'm assuming) to illustrate that it's hair but the comparison between the texture of the disguise and his hood is night and day (to me). But, I mean, I used to do illustration so maybe I'm just stuck in my ways.

I'm also an illustrator/designer/artist, and I actually know a thing or two about depth and shading.

I've only found 1 or 2 images that, yes, looked like a cloth headpiece. That means the animators actually got the character model right that day.

This:
JoeToonArchive.com - ROC 2 The Vines of Evil/0039 (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=29&pos=32)

The folds and lines actually look like it'd be a hood. Check Cobra Commander's hood. Now the way that the "hood" folds under in all the majority of the other images, there's billowy lumps and it actually curls under, it doesn't flow down like Dusty's hood or CC's hood.

When his hair is billowy and fluffy in the majority of the images, it looks a lot like Baroness' hair does. But in the frames where you can see actual strands of hair flapping in the wind, I can't say that it looks like a solid draped hood, because it doesn't.

[Monkeywrench]

Shogi has got to love this argument. His website has prolly got more hits today than the last 2 weeks combined lol

[Mandingo Rex]

JoeToonArchive.com - Jungle Trap/0116 (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=10&pos=109)

H-A-I-R.

http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=10&pos=10

H-O-O-D.

[Monkeywrench]

JoeToonArchive.com - Jungle Trap/0116 (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=10&pos=109)

H-A-I-R.

JoeToonArchive.com - Jungle Trap/0010 (http://www.joetoonarchive.com/displayimage.php?album=10&pos=10)

H-O-O-D.

perfect. end of argument

[Roadblock Recall]

http://www.joetoonarchive.com/albums/S2%200002%20Computer/0137.gif

See how it's all one object? There's no lines of separation, just subtle folding/overlapping lines.
Baroness's hair is done the same way. No lines of seperation..just subtle folding. Are you going to tell me that Baroness is wearing a hood too?


http://www.joetoonarchive.com/albums/S2%200002%20Computer/0138.gif

See the texture indicators? The implication of parting, separation and flow?
Yes, and I've seen those same indicators in several pictures of cartoon Zartan in this thread. Your point?


Well, I can't show the character removing the hood if the animators never drew it. I can't show him w/out his make up either. Does that mean those marks on his face were permanent? Who knows, new thread topic? Maybe. Possibly. Oh, and I can't show Snake Eyes had a face either, because, well, they never drew him removing his mask and looking into the camera.


You've got me beat in the imagination department because I didn't see it as hair to begin with, but I think "memory" or "idle time" would be better words to use if we're talking about searching for pictures of a cartoon from the '80s that might convince a few ppl over the internet. Regardless, these actions will not yield a cure to cancer.

No need to try to be a smartass. You specifically asked me to give you examples of how a hood could be shown in a cartoon. I listed a few. Don't get all snippy just because I provided exactly what you asked for.


Well, I mean, if you're still not convinced than there's little left that I want to do to try to convince you otherwise.
But you haven't done anything to try to convince me otherwise other than the constant "nuh uh". Plenty of examples have been shown that it's hair in the cartoon, none have been shown that it's a hood in the cartoon. How exactly do you feel someone would become convinced of your argument under these circumstances?

[Zefram]

Geez! How can anybody not tell the diffeence between hair and a piece of clothing attire.

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/41/afrohat.jpg

Umm... nevermind.

[n3rf]

I was wrong. One of the pics mangdingo_rex posted was from the episode "Jungle Trap." I watched the non-English versions of that and "Countdown for Zartan" on YouTube. There were a few examples where the hood acts more like hair. They're both in the same season, so now I'm looking around for later episodes to see if it's consistent.

It's very hard to find cartoon stuff that isn't a Fensler PSA.

And RR, I was just answering in the same spirit as your previous posts/arguments. I can admit to being wrong 2x in the same day, but we can save that discussion for PM!

[Renegade]

That's some great hair

[paulpratt]

roadblock recall, i feel you. The cartoon showed it as hair.

If matt trakker had been in the show, he would have proven it. Then, he could have also solved why he's in the 25th line while having dicksquat to do with g.i. Joe in any media.

matt tracker is my lord and savior!!!!!!!!!!111111

[Shin-Gouki]

I agree...its a hood.......not to be confused with a trap.....or tarp


http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh271/Shin-Gouki-2005/ackbar.jpg


http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh271/Shin-Gouki-2005/142973a2.jpg

[paulpratt]

I'm also an illustrator/designer/artist, and I actually know a thing or two about depth and shading.

I've only found 1 or 2 images that, yes, looked like a cloth headpiece. That means the animators actually got the character model right that day.


They wouldn't send them actual models. The actual subject would be 1. a picture of the figure from every angle, or 2. (more likely), a drawing of what they wanted the cartoon character to look like. So what happened is that the original concept artist drew him having hood, and the asian animators just figured it was hair.
So we are all right. Originally conceived as a hood in the cartoons design, and misinterpreted as hair when animation was done. A ton of stuff is lost in translation when it goes to the animators.

[ThE80sMaDeMe]

As a kid i always thought it was hair. Then when the new toy came out i saw it and said ohh sh*t, he has a hood on and just took it as i had been looking at it wrong as a kid. Now i see Roadblock recall and Recondo's pictures from the cartoon and see that in the cartoon it defintely is hair. Whether or not a "mistake" to all you guys basing this still on the toy or comic, those guys pics show that on mor then a couple occasions that the cartoon Zartan has hair. Also, hair does prtect your head from the sun. Shave your head out in Saudi Arabia and bet you get a mean sun burn. Then grow it out, nice and fluffly just like Zartan's,lol, and i bet it wont get burned, so hair does protect you from the sun. Wow, i cant believe i just actually argued a point on somethin so wierd and dumb, oh well, get in touch with my inner nerd.

[Mandingo Rex]

They wouldn't send them actual models. The actual subject would be 1. a picture of the figure from every angle, or 2. (more likely), a drawing of what they wanted the cartoon character to look like. So what happened is that the original concept artist drew him having hood, and the asian animators just figured it was hair.
So we are all right. Originally conceived as a hood in the cartoons design, and misinterpreted as hair when animation was done. A ton of stuff is lost in translation when it goes to the animators.

Yeah, that's what a character model is (or at least what I am calling it). It's usually different angles of the same guy. They used them for Transformers all the time and fucked those up left and right. Sideswipe and Red Alert are the exact same mold, but Sideswipe came first, and his body is drawn much differently than Red Alert.

Character model - Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki (http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Character_model)

[Monkeywrench]

I was wrong. One of the pics mangdingo_rex posted was from the episode "Jungle Trap." I watched the non-English versions of that and "Countdown for Zartan" on YouTube. There were a few examples where the hood acts more like hair. They're both in the same season, so now I'm looking around for later episodes to see if it's consistent.

It's very hard to find cartoon stuff that isn't a Fensler PSA.

And RR, I was just answering in the same spirit as your previous posts/arguments. I can admit to being wrong 2x in the same day, but we can save that discussion for PM!

search cobra941 on youtube to find more toons

[Monkeywrench]

Geez! How can anybody not tell the diffeence between hair and a piece of clothing attire.

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/41/afrohat.jpg

Umm... nevermind.

that's nuts! lol

[delta]

no, it's hair

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e213/Surlon/GI%20Joe/zartan1.jpg


http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e213/Surlon/GI%20Joe/zartan2.jpg

Wow. Certainly looks like hair in those photos. I can't deny that.

The best answer I can come up with is. It is supposed to be a hood, but after many animators had the job mistakes happen. Animators are Humans, and Humans make mistakes.

[delta]

Geez! How can anybody not tell the diffeence between hair and a piece of clothing attire.

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/41/afrohat.jpg

Umm... nevermind.

Wow that is the most awesome haircut I have ever seen!!

[Novacaine]

Man I thought that was hair too but I can see how it could go both ways.

[spacemonkeymafia]

And from this day forth.......Zartan shaLL HAVE HAIR!!!!!



Yall are still talking about this? Geez........

Fine....fine.....he has F..king hair..........

[NeoDragonKnight]

I always thought it was hair as a kid, even now when I look at it I still see hair, maybe Im just use to it. Maybe its time to do a custom figure cartoon Zartan with hair instead of hood!

[spacemonkeymafia]

She asks me why, why I'm just a hairy guy.
I'm hairy noon and nighty night night, my hair is a fright.
I'm hairy high and low, but don't ask me why, cause he don't know.
It's not for lack of bread, like the Grateful Death.
Darlin'

Give me a head with hair, long beautiful hair.
Shining, gleaming, streaming, flaxen, waxen.
Give me down to there hair, shoulder length or longer hair
Here baby, there, momma, ev'rywhere, daddy, daddy.

Hair, hair, hair, hair, hair
Hair, hair, hair. Flow it, show it, long as I can grow it, my hair.

I'd let it fly in the breeze and get caught in the trees, give a home to the fleas in my hair.
A home for the fleas, a hive for the buzzin' bees,
A nest for birds, there ain't no words for the beauty, the splendor, the wonder of my:

Hair, hair, hair, hair, hair
Hair, hair, hair
Flow it, show it, long as I can grow it, my hair

I want it long, straight, curly, fuzzy, snaggy, shaggy, ratty, matty,
Oily, greasy, fleecy, shining, streaming, gleaming, flaxen, waxen,
Knotted, polka dotted, twisted, beaded, braided,
Powdered, flowered and confettied, bangled, tangled, spangled and spahettied.

Oh say can you see, rise if you can,
And my hair's too short

Hair, hair, hair, hair, hair
Hair, hair, hair.Flow it, show it,
Long as God can grow it, my hair

They'll be ga-ga at the go-go when they see me in my toga,
My toga meade of blond, brilliantined, biblical hair.
My hair like Jesus wore it, Halleluja I adore it, Halleluja Mary loved her son,why don't my mother love me?

Hair, hair, hair, hair, hair
Hair, hair, hair
Folw it, show it
Long as God can grow it, my hair

Hair, hair, hair, hair, hair
Hair, hair, hair
Folw it, show it
Long as God can grow it, my hair

HAIR

[Captain STEVEN DePACE]

no, it's hair

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e213/Surlon/GI%20Joe/zartan1.jpg


http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e213/Surlon/GI%20Joe/zartan2.jpg

So does Lady Jaye wear socks all the time? She's wearing socks in the first picture.

[writersblock]

um...how can you see the pictures on the previous page and NOT see it as hair?

To be completely honest, cartoons in the 80's were filled with animation errors. I'm a transformers nut and the show in the 80's had so many animation errors it isn't funny, I could'nt count them all. Its a hood.

[writersblock]

but she's a female..which means she's unintelligent. heh heh heh

Nice one! lol

[Hellion42]

This thread provided me with minutes upon minutes of entertainment. I hereby dub Hairy Cartoon Zartan "Sunstorm."

So does Lady Jaye wear socks all the time? She's wearing socks in the first picture.

/thread

[Crimson Bludd]

Zartan is a Hood, from the Hood, that wears a Hood.

[Mandingo Rex]

Cartoon = hair

Toy/Comic/everywhere else = hood

Just like Lady Jaye wears a butch cap in toy form, but has sexy bedhead on the cartoon. haha.

[skatezaz]

what i dont get is why he didnt come with a bow? isnt he an expert marksman i think it even says so on his filecard