Man of Steel

[red4]

Me likes.

MAN OF STEEL - Official Trailer (2013) [HD] - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jKWJZsjm5U)

[Raw Dog]

I'm getting pretty excited for MoS too.

[Crimson Rage]

I heard a lot of cliched "superhero angst" dialogue and saw a lot of shaky camera work.... Besides, I know full well that trailers these days are utterly worthless as an indicator of a film's quality.

[RandomViper117]

Really excited for this movie now. The dialogue didn't sound angsty to me, more idealistic It reminded meof Batman Begins where Ras al Ghul gives his 'make yourself more than just a man' speech.

[JokerFC]

not nearly enough there to get me excited about anything.

[Crimson Rage]

Really excited for this movie now. The dialogue didn't sound angsty to me, more idealistic It reminded meof Batman Begins where Ras al Ghul gives his 'make yourself more than just a man' speech.

Well yes, that's what I meant. The whole "Gotta make a choice" and "gotta be who ya gonna be" notion (yes, I'm paraphrasing) could have been lifted directly from Batman or Spider-Man

[RandomViper117]

Well yes, that's what I meant. The whole "Gotta make a choice" and "gotta be who ya gonna be" notion (yes, I'm paraphrasing) could have been lifted directly from Batman or Spider-Man

But Superman did that same stuff back in the 70s when it came out. It's been part of his character. It's not so much him choosing to be Superman by overcoming his own flaws, it's him choosing to be Superman in spite of humanity's flaws.

[Raw Dog]

I'm excited for it because it is a Superman movie, and Superman is awesome. Plus, Superman looks buff in this one and buff is the stuff.

[red4]

I'm excited for it because it is a Superman movie, and Superman is awesome. Plus, Superman looks buff in this one and buff is the stuff.

it's enough to get rough while diving the muff

[Raw Dog]

it's enough to get rough while diving the muff

Are you referring to Superman's beard in the movie?

[red4]

are you referring to superman's beard in the movie?

... Yes!


?

[Jay West]

He's a super powered fisherman who becomes humanity's savior. He's Jesus!

[MeLikeJinx]

I liked the trailer, but I don't really like Henry Cavill; I thought he was pretty lackluster in Immortals.

[red4]

I liked the trailer, but I don't really like Henry Cavill; I thought he was pretty lackluster in Immortals.

He cavill come through. Just give him a chance.

[JokerFC]

I wont be judging Cavill based on The Immortals.I think the man can deliver and so can Snyder.

[RandomViper117]

He's a super powered fisherman who becomes humanity's savior. He's Jesus!

Wasn't Jesus a carpenter and his disciples fishermen?

[Jinx723]

Though it's a teaser trailer, I like that they don't show much considering it's an action movie for next summer.
The shot of him at the end flying off, reminded me of Smallville's series finale. I'm a bigger Superman fan than Batman and I hope this one makes some money. Studios don't care about story, it's all about $$$ to approve sequels. Enough with Batman, we need a Supe trilogy, cause we all know WB/DC can't do any other characters (movie) justice.

[Jmacq1]

I wont be judging Cavill based on The Immortals.I think the man can deliver and so can Snyder.

See "The Tudors" for some good work by Cavill.

"Immortals" didn't really give him a lot to work with.

I like what tiny bit they've shown us so far. It often gets forgotten/glossed over that Superman underwent his own "odyssey" between the Smallville and Metropolis years much like Bruce Wayne had his own journey. I don't think this movie will focus on it as much as Batman Begins did, but it's nice to see an acknowledgment of it (The old Reeve movie just had him shut himself in the fortress for a few years to learn all the stuff he apparently needed to know).

And I think a little angst from Superman is necessary. The primary complaint about Superman from common readers/viewers is that he's...too much "super" and not enough "man." He becomes unrelatable and therefore boring when he's "perfect" and completely lacking in doubt or introspection. Now, he shouldn't be Bruce Wayne/Batman nor fall into the trap of navel-gazing too much, but adding some character arc to this reboot isn't going to hurt things, especially with the Nolans helping to steer the train.

[Raw Dog]

I like that Superman is "super". My favorite Superman story is the JLU episode where he's flung into the future and encounters Vandal Savage. He has no powers but still shows that he is super.

[red4]

What I think makes the trailer so awesome is that you get the feeling it's about a regular guy who reluctantly has to become Superman. It feels like a story that unfolds naturally, rather than being a common action movie.

[JokerFC]

See "The Tudors" for some good work by Cavill.

.

watched the Tudors from start to finish while it was airing.it was filmed in Ardmore Studios in Bray County Wicklow-which is about 30 miles from me....awesome sauce it was.

and yeah Cavill was pretty great.

[vermillion21]

Yawn. The first movie Supes reboot movie sucked donkey balls, this one looks like more of the same.

[MeLikeJinx]

Trailer #2

Man of Steel - Official Trailer #2 [HD] - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVu3gS7iJu4)

IMO that doesn't even look or feel like a Superman movie... it feels like a dark Batman movie... with Superman. LOL.

[Iron Guru]

IMO that doesn't even look or feel like a Superman movie... it feels like a dark Batman movie... with Superman. LOL.

I agree the trailer gave me that vibe too.

[pig iron grenadier]

Looks like too much talking and not enough smashing!!!

[Jmacq1]

People are seriously mistaking "dark" with "thoughtful." There's no reason you can't make a very good Superman movie that's a little more than "SUPERMAN SMASH." Just like you can make Batman movies that are more than Batman beating up colorful thugs. The challenge for filmmakers is to make Superman more than just a powerset and a costume, because if there's no investment in the actual character, your franchise is sunk before it even begins. He needs to have some kind of character arc.

And I guess folks must've also missed all those alien ships, explosions and the 2-second appearance of General Zod. This is a Zack Snyder movie folks, Superman is going to punch stuff. Relax. A good trailer isn't going to show all the best action beats.

Color palette aside, all I get from the trailer in terms of tone and theme is that it will explore a bit of why we need a Superman. I'm sure by the end of the movie we'll basically have the Superman we all know. Maybe minus a little bit of the many decades of cheese that cling to the character.

[pig iron grenadier]

Awwwwwww, I want smashing....

I'm kidding of course, but there can be too much talking. At the end of the day I think between Goyer, Snyder, and Nolan this will be good.

[USAgent]

I like that second trailer a lot. I don't see 'Dark Knight'- I see a pretty cool Superman. The trailer moved it off my "wait until blu-ray
" list to "on the big screen"

[JokerFC]

would have liked maybe 10 more seconds of action but Im sure trailer 3 will provide that.

I trust Snyder with Supes way more than I would Nolan...... and believe he will deliver.

what saddens me is that if Snyder deliver a Supes movie that blows us all away,Nolan will get all the credit from his fanboys.

[pig iron grenadier]

I kinda think Nolan is only there for 2 reasons...Name recognition firstly, and secondly --to reign in Snyder if he goes too far out.

[RolandofGilead]

what saddens me is that if Snyder deliver a Supes movie that blows us all away,Nolan will get all the credit from his fanboys.

Agreed.


I kinda think Nolan is only there for 2 reasons...Name recognition firstly, and secondly --to reign in Snyder if he goes too far out.

Agreed x2.

[Jinx723]

I'll be watching it opening day, I am that much of a Superman fan.
It looks like it'll be good but I just don't think anyone will top Richard Donner's Superman. The first two Superman Movies will always be my Superman Movie. Unless they make one without Luthor & Zod as the villains and it turns out more awesome than Donner's Movies. I just want a movie with Bizzaro, Brainiac, Metallo, or even Ultraman.

[Kungfuguy]

I hope Synders puts to rest the ghost of Christopher Reeves ( with all due respect). There's way too much baggage attached to Superman. If they give us classic superman, then we complain its the same old same old. If they do some thing different and new, then we complain it's not superman. You can't win. This clearly looks different and portrays superman as the alien amongst us. Looks like we humans don't look to him as a god, but as someone to fear. Interesting!

[USAgent]

Would love to see Supes get a few movies under his belt so we can see Metallo or Doomsday- someone that will be a physical challenge for him and not just a mental challenge

[JokerFC]

I reckon we will get the physical challenge in Zod man.......Im hoping for a big powered up building smashing slapping match like we seen in Nortons Hulk or Avengers.

[pig iron grenadier]

I'm hoping they use Zod in such a way that it can set up Braniac for #2.....
In #2 Braniac could get into Luthor Corp systems and screw over Luthor so Luthor helps Superman defeat Braniac, but Luthor double crosses Superman by getting his DNA at the end unbeknownst to Supes.
# 3 would have Luthor creating Bizarro/clone of Superman, and wrap it all up......
Maybe Metallo is somewhere in 2 or 3 where needed...

[Esquire]

Yawn. The first movie Supes reboot movie sucked donkey balls, this one looks like more of the same.Keyword: looks.

[JokerFC]

I dont think it will be the same as SR.

I think they are deliberately holding back on the action and trailer 3# will floor us.well I hope so.

[BEAM]

Trailer #3 is here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6DJcgm3wNY

It has a Batman Begins feel. He won't be in costume until about 45 minutes - 1 hour into the movie. Build up his reason for donning the cape and protecting humanity. Then Zod should come to Earth and all hell breaks loose. Snyder can handle big SFX action so I'm looking forward to that.

I'm loving the Pa Kent character seen in the trailers. Can't wait to see more.

I'm more excited for this than IM3.

[Troynos]

I've never been a Superman fan but I like that they're not showing us the action. I love the trailers. They have an epic/mythic feel to them, building up the story instead of just having Superman being a super-powerful alien.

[BEAM]

Love the tone as well. It's an origin story but it looks like it takes a different track than previous Superman stories. I can get behind a younger Clark finding his way in the world, trying to come to grips with his place among (or above) humanity. Looks like Clark isn't at the Daily Planet (although he might end up there by stories end), no Lex Luthor land deal storyline, no Kryptonite, super-powered baddie (who cares if it's Zod again), finally a Lois I'm attracted to, and the lack of Super underwear isn't so bad.

[MeLikeJinx]

Trailer #3 is here.

Man of Steel - Official Trailer 3 [HD] - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6DJcgm3wNY)

It has a Batman Begins feel. He won't be in costume until about 45 minutes - 1 hour into the movie. Build up his reason for donning the cape and protecting humanity. Then Zod should come to Earth and all hell breaks loose. Snyder can handle big SFX action so I'm looking forward to that.

I'm loving the Pa Kent character seen in the trailers. Can't wait to see more.

I'm more excited for this than IM3.
That was such a good trailer... I got goosebumps and a little teary eyed just watching it. LOL. I loved all the beginning Krypton part... so cool; even though they said no Kryptonite in the movie.

And I think a majority of people are probably more excited about this than IM3. And I think this Superman is the first DC movie that is in the same universe as all the other DC superheroes and is not a standalone series like Batman was. So maybe other DC Superheroes will get mentioned or alluded to in the film.

The movie just looks so visually beautiful though.

[Jmacq1]

Yeah...this movie is gonna be huge. Probably the top grosser of this summer (Iron Man 3 will be up there though...and probably Star Trek Into Darkness as well). Definitely my most anticipated of the summer, though I'm looking forward to the others (and Pacific Rim) as well.

It's just so nice to see that Marvel Studios and the Dark Knight Trilogy have really forced the moviemakers to step up their game on the superhero fare. Even Fox seems to be at least trying to do right by their movies (though it's questionable how well they're succeeding...X-Men: First Class may have been an exception rather than the start of a pattern).

[JokerFC]

impressive.

heres hoping DC/WB will now get off the fucking can and start doing right by their properties.the fact that they refuse to greenlight anything until they see how MOS does at the Box Office doesn't fill me with hope though.

Im equally excited for this,IM3 and Star Trek.this may edge out IM3 because this will be our 4th outing with Tony.still expect it to be excellent though.

[Troynos]

I may actually go see this in the theatres. The trailers have really impressed me.

I love how they are introducing him. Instead of the "omg he saved us" it's "omg, who the hell is this guy". It makes Clark's journey that much stronger/better that he isn't instantly accepted and has to prove his way.

[MeLikeJinx]

I love how they are introducing him. Instead of the "omg he saved us" it's "omg, who the hell is this guy". It makes Clark's journey that much stronger/better that he isn't instantly accepted and has to prove his way.
That part and Kevin Costner kinda reminds me of Smallville though.

[pig iron grenadier]

This trailer is one of the best trailers I've ever seen.....the Editor is brilliant!

[Ford]

Incredible trailer. I can't wait to see this in IMAX. It's so nice to finally see Superman treated as an alien, and not just a boy scout. I was never a fan of Superman, but Smallville really changed my mind about him (the high school years at least, it went downhill after that). I do think this will be the biggest movie of the year. "Iron Man 3" will do great too, but it's fourth time in six years that we've seen him on the big screen.

[JokerFC]

7

I do think this will be the biggest movie of the year. "Iron Man 3" will do great too, but it's fourth time in six years that we've seen him on the big screen.



yeah I do think that may run against Tony and Co.it will still have a great Box Office Im sure....but the novelty factor is gone.

[MeLikeJinx]

^ The "coolness" factor of seeing the IM armor is kinda gone too. As funny as RDJ is and as much as the camera loves him... I mostly watch IM movies to see Tony Stark's shiny armor. That's why I liked IM2 even though a lot of people didn't... I got to see WM.

But for Man of Steel... it there is no Kryptonite in this movie... then Superman will be completely invincible throughout the whole movie. I wonder how they will create the necessary drama if you know Superman cannot get even get hurt at all. Plus, he's a loner too... no one for Zod to threaten.

[Jmacq1]

^ The "coolness" factor of seeing the IM armor is kinda gone too. As funny as RDJ is and as much as the camera loves him... I mostly watch IM movies to see Tony Stark's shiny armor. That's why I liked IM2 even though a lot of people didn't... I got to see WM.

But for Man of Steel... it there is no Kryptonite in this movie... then Superman will be completely invincible throughout the whole movie. I wonder how they will create the necessary drama if you know Superman cannot get even get hurt at all. Plus, he's a loner too... no one for Zod to threaten.

He's not invulnerable to getting the crap beat out of him by other people as strong as he is (like Zod and his crew).

And being a "loner" doesn't mean Superman's just gonna chill out while Zod threatens -anyone-.

[MeLikeJinx]

He's not invulnerable to getting the crap beat out of him by other people as strong as he is (like Zod and his crew).
I actually forgot that Doomsday beat Superman to death without using Kryptonite... I think he is the only one though.

And being a "loner" doesn't mean Superman's just gonna chill out while Zod threatens -anyone-.
True. I mean you can tell by the trailer that he is a good person since he saved the kids on the bus and all those people on the ocean oil rig that caught on fire. I'm not really familiar with Superman, but I always thought that he always had someone he loved... Lana when he was young and Lois as an adult... so his sense of protecting humanity was not out of an abstract sense of duty or loyalty, but something more personal.

[Jmacq1]

I actually forgot that Doomsday beat Superman to death without using Kryptonite... I think he is the only one though.

Well, Doomsday's the only one that's beat him to -death- yes, but plenty of characters have beat him black-and-blue on strength alone, even if he pulls out a win in the end. I mean, if you want to get technical, there's really no suspense in ANY superhero movie that's intended to be part of a franchise...they're not going to kill their star, so you always know they're going to pull out of it somehow.

True. I mean you can tell by the trailer that he is a good person since he saved the kids on the bus and all those people on the ocean oil rig that caught on fire. I'm not really familiar with Superman, but I always thought that he always had someone he loved... Lana when he was young and Lois as an adult... so his sense of protecting humanity was not out of an abstract sense of duty or loyalty, but something more personal.

To be fair: It's both (abstract and personal).

Lois is in the movie, though. Even if it'll likely be a "first meeting" kind of thing.

Also: I believe his mother will be alive, if not both parents.

[MeLikeJinx]

And I think a majority of people are probably more excited about this than IM3.
Maybe I was wrong about that... IM3 just did 195.3 million overseas opening weekend... that's even better than Avengers did.

[Jmacq1]

Maybe I was wrong about that... IM3 just did 195.3 million overseas opening weekend... that's even better than Avengers did.

That's not surprising, but still impressive.

What a lot of folks in the US don't realize when they hear these ever-growing numbers from outside the US is that the reason we're getting these ever-growing numbers is because, well...the movie business is actually -growing- outside the US...and by leaps and bounds. By comparison, it's pretty well "saturated" in the US and there isn't all that much room for expansion.

So basically to put it another way: There are more outside-the-US theaters in more places than there were even when Avengers hit. Business is massively booming for studios overseas, and as several movies in recent years have shown us, international box office is starting to become just as important if not MORE important than US Domestic Gross to the overall success of films. We're going to continue to get this escalation for at least a few more years. Don't be surprised if Avengers 2 ends up even bigger than 1, or if Man of Steel does better internationally than Dark Knight or Dark Knight Rises.

[JokerFC]

IM3s non U.S. haul is incredibly impressive.....no doubt.

this is already a blow for MOS.because it already had to work so hard to impress the higher ups at WB-now they have seen this they will be even harder to please.

X3 beating Supes in 2006 had them incredibly let down supposedly.

[Jmacq1]

IM3s non U.S. haul is incredibly impressive.....no doubt.

this is already a blow for MOS.because it already had to work so hard to impress the higher ups at WB-now they have seen this they will be even harder to please.

X3 beating Supes in 2006 had them incredibly let down supposedly.

This isn't a blow for MOS in any way. If the WB folks are impressed, IM3's haul doesn't change their opinion of the movie. MOS opens six weeks after Iron Man 3. It has more to fear from Star Trek Into Darkness than Iron Man 3, and even that is about four weeks earlier than MOS. If movies "success" acted the same way people seem to act like it does around here and other places, there would only be one "hit" movie per summer...which clearly isn't the case.

Man of Steel will make its money without any interference from Iron Man 3. It may or may not make more than IM3, but ultimately that doesn't matter at all so long as the movie makes its' budget back and then some (preferably a lot of "then some" but even so...).

Or let's look at it this way: Can you find a single credible report saying that any WB executives were "disappointed" or "let down" that Dark Knight Rises failed to make more than The Avengers at the box office? No, because DKR still made a ton of money. Avengers' success didn't stop DKR from making money, and IM3's potential success will do nothing to stop MOS from doing so.

WB executives were disappointed with Superman Returns because they used some ridiculous Hollywood Math to bloat the budget of that film to the point that it basically had to make $300M domestic to be considered a "hit" and turn a profit. All other factors aside, the movie made $200 million domestic box office...and for virtually ANY other movie that would have been considered a big hit. By comparison: Batman Begins actually made LESS worldwide than Superman Returns did, and yet was considered a highly successful film.

[JokerFC]

LOL yeah ok.......

[Jinx723]

Man of Steel - "Fate of Your Planet" Official Trailer [HD] - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NlOF03DUoWc#)!

[BEAM]

Spectacular! Tons of new footage, heat vision, Fiora speaks, tons of ass kicking action. This movie will be awesome.

I just hope we don't have to sit through 45 minutes of an origin story to get to the meat of the story.

[afsupplies]

Man that looks awesome. Love that dirty bass guitar on the soundtrack too.

[BEAM]

Love this image

http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/3470/mosimagepage001.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/818/mosimagepage001.jpg/)

[MeLikeJinx]

^ That reminds me of when Cyclops takes his sunglasses off. LOL.


Man of Steel - "Fate of Your Planet" Official Trailer [HD] - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlOF03DUoWc#)

Oh oh... looks like it is one of those bad guy demands, "Hand over the only person that can actually protect you and we promise not to do anything bad when there is no one left to protect you" type movies. LOL.

[speedlgt]

superman the SUPERHERO which all others are judge by! batman is huge and so is spiderman and wolverine and ironman are up there too but SUPERMAN is SUPERMAN hes#1 always will be.
the problem is too many writers take the EASY road of writing batman cause hes stright up EASY to write. Superman is more complex.

hes a God among Men who choose to live and love like a human. he can rule the world at any min make it as he sees fit or destory it. but he chooses to be a good man. hes a alien whos more human than humans who live here.

people say superman is too strong, and your dam right he is! if you aint got some K juice your loosing, HULK THOR, zod, you name em and there going down and its not even close, well its as close and superman wants it to be. but that doesnt make a boring story. Batman has eveyone beat before they even play the game but you wanna see the ride. Superman is always best attacked through his weakness which is the morality of loving the weak and protecting the earth.

I think this movie is gonna be good. RETURNS was just a bad story, I think the actors were fine. but good actors cant fix a dumb story

[JokerFC]

getting more confident about this daily.

I think Snyder has delivered big time.

[Jinx723]

Potholes - Super Bacon Cheeseburger only at Carl's Jr. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMAl4LwFVVg)

Sometimes you really need to clog your arteries. :D
I love Superman's facial expression at the 16 sec mark.

[BEAM]

getting more confident about this daily.

I think Snyder has delivered big time.

My thoughts too. I've enjoyed Snyder as a director, except for his vaniety project Super Punch, which was his one big misstep.

There is a spoilerish guest review on AICN that highly recommends it. I skimmed it but avoided the major spoilers.

I read spoilers on IM3 and Star Trek but I refuse to read them about this movie. Probably because it's my most anticipated that I want to go in fresh.

[Fred Broca]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlOF03DUoWc

After a year of seeing bullshit trailers, ^^^^^ was the one I was waiting for. After Clark finishes "finding himself," and Zod gets to earth, it's going down. I personally think MoS is going to segue into in acknowldegment of a wider DC Movieverse or possibly the JLA movie. I don't see how Supes is going to beat a gang of Kryptonians with no fucks to give.

the problem is too many writers take the EASY road of writing batman cause hes stright up EASY to write. Superman is more complex.

hes a God among Men who choose to live and love like a human. he can rule the world at any min make it as he sees fit or destory it. but he chooses to be a good man. hes a alien whos more human than humans who live here.

people say superman is too strong, and your dam right he is! if you aint got some K juice your loosing, HULK THOR, zod, you name em and there going down and its not even close, well its as close and superman wants it to be. but that doesnt make a boring story. Batman has eveyone beat before they even play the game but you wanna see the ride. Superman is always best attacked through his weakness which is the morality of loving the weak and protecting the earth.[/b]

I think this movie is gonna be good. RETURNS was just a bad story, I think the actors were fine. but good actors cant fix a dumb story

I agree with everything you said, except the underlined. Supes isn't easy to, as matter of fact he's very difficult to write. Most screen writers are only familiar with the "powers and abilties far beyond those of mortal men," aspects of Superman. As you previously stated, Supes isn't about his immense power, this humanity, the core values that the Kents instilled in him, and why he doesn't feel compelled to simply take over the earth and subject it to some despotic alien rule.

Most people who have tried to write Superman missed that point. In my opinion, it would take up to a few months of studying Superman, his movitations and how he interacts with those around him in order to fully understand Clark Kent/Superman.

[SportsandStuff]

I hope Superman can win over the modern Iron Man, Batman, Spiderman movie fans

[speedlgt]

I hope Superman can win over the modern Iron Man, Batman, Spiderman movie fans

its a hard sale I think for this day and age and it says something about our time. the heroes you mention are all "good guys" and true heroes.

but superman is pure Good, and i think people dont want that. They want Dark justice (batman), Flawed asshole, genuis cool heroics (ironman) Young angst nerd w lots of problems (spiderman)

superman like his counterpart in marvel Capt America have the same problem in being almost too perfect and too good. There symbols of whats Good and great about being a heroic ICON.

but I hope as you do that people see him as the great character he is

[JokerFC]

This isn't a blow for MOS in any way.



actually......IM3s take IS a blow for Man Of Steel.

it is now unlikely(although possible I will admit)that MOS will be THE movie/earner of the summer.and that right there is a blow for WB/DC.

[Jmacq1]

actually......IM3s take IS a blow for Man Of Steel.

it is now unlikely(although possible I will admit)that MOS will be THE movie/earner of the summer.and that right there is a blow for WB/DC.

No, it really isn't in any way, because the "bragging rights" don't count for diddly squat...it's all about whether the final take turned a profit or not.

Or are you seriously trying to tell me that WB was negatively affected in any way whatsoever by The Dark Knight Rises not making as much money as The Avengers last year?

Because I seriously will (virtually) laugh in your face if you try to tell me that's true.

[JokerFC]

No, it really isn't in any way, because the "bragging rights" don't count for diddly squat...it's all about whether the final take turned a profit or not.

Or are you seriously trying to tell me that WB was negatively affected in any way whatsoever by The Dark Knight Rises not making as much money as The Avengers last year?

Because I seriously will (virtually) laugh in your face if you try to tell me that's true.

LOL.....laugh away!!its simple enough,I genuinely don't care what you think or whos face you laugh in.....you can be so overbearing on this subject matter that its amusing to the rest of us anyway.

so Ill put it in a way you might grasp.......are you seriously telling me that WB wouldn't have wanted MOS to be THE movie of the summer?of course they would.its their main movie this summer.....of course they want it to be the 1# movie of the summer.

[Jmacq1]

LOL.....laugh away!!its simple enough,I genuinely don't care what you think or whos face you laugh in.....you can be so overbearing on this subject matter that its amusing to the rest of us anyway.

so Ill put it in a way you might grasp.......are you seriously telling me that WB wouldn't have wanted MOS to be THE movie of the summer?of course they would.its their main movie this summer.....of course they want it to be the 1# movie of the summer.

I'm glad you're amused, so to further your amusement, I'll put my response in equally simple terms for you so you can understand:

Sure, they'd be happy with MOS being the #1 movie of the summer, but that's ultimately irrelevant as long as the film makes them money (and preferably a lot of it). Further, the "#1 of the year" bragging rights are pretty much only useful for...absolutely nothing. It's something to brag about in corporate presentations, and that's it. EVERY studio WANTS their movie to be "#1 of the summer/year" but that doesn't mean much of anything, the bottom line is...the bottom line: How much money it makes in the grand scheme of things, and whether it turned a profit for the studio and its' investors.

Excellent attempt at a straw man argument, though. I didn't say diddly-squat about what WB "wants." YOU said they would be hurt if Man of Steel is not #1, but have yet to show any sort of actual negative consequence that will befall them if it's not. I'm fairly sure a few studio executives shrugging their shoulders and saying, "darn, we weren't #1" isn't really a negative consequence for WB.

In fact, why didn't you answer the very simple question that you avoided with insults in your last post? How exactly was WB hurt by Dark Knight Rises not beating Avengers at the box office last year?

Oh, that's right, you avoided answering the question because it reveals your position as complete baloney.

Bonus question: Do you think the WB executives were crying about being #2 while they rolled around in the piles of money DKR raked in? Do you think they were embarrassed that they only made the 3rd highest grossing comic-book movie of all time?

Double bonus question: What exactly do you think Marvel Studios "gets" if Iron Man 3 maintains its' position as the #1 highest grossing movie of the year? Please account for the fact that by the time they can definitively state that they were the #1 movie of the year, it will be next year, and the DVD/Blu-Ray release will have long since passed.

[JokerFC]

Bonus questions.......Jesus you crack me up.you genuinely view yourself as some authority on this stuff.....and deviation from your POV ENRAGES you doesn't it?so my opinion(position as you call it) is baloney.....yet more laughs for me.

where did I type or insinuate that WB were hurt by being #2 last summer?now I could see Nolans rabid fanbase being disappointed......

where did you ask me a question?you ranted on about WB/DKR(like you always do) but theres no question in there.......

this is really simple......when somebody doesn't share your exact opinion on something you go off on one......just like you did above.your known for it......the above post just drives the point home.

[Jmacq1]

Bonus questions.......Jesus you crack me up.you genuinely view yourself as some authority on this stuff.....and deviation from your POV ENRAGES you doesn't it?so my opinion(position as you call it) is baloney.....yet more laughs for me.

OK, your "opinion" is ill-informed and basically flat-out wrong. Contrary to popular belief, opinions CAN be wrong. I must really have struck a nerve though, given that you sure seem to like talking about me rather than the actual issue being discussed.

where did I type or insinuate that WB were hurt by being #2 last summer?now I could see Nolans rabid fanbase being disappointed......

You flat-out stated that Man of Steel will be hurt if it doesn't beat Iron Man 3 this summer. Then I applied this magical thing called logical correlation to a similar scenario, in this case: Avengers vs. The Dark Knight Rises. You might even remember that there was a rather huge degree of debate across many, many sites as to which of the two films was going to "win" the summer ahead of time. If Man of Steel is going to be "hurt" by not being the #1 movie this summer...why was Dark Knight Rises NOT hurt by being #2 to Avengers, or if it was, how was it hurt? What is the difference between the two movies that makes it "OK" for DKR to be #2 but not OK for MoS?

where did you ask me a question?you ranted on about WB/DKR(like you always do) but theres no question in there.......

Look three posts up from your last. I'll even re-post it the third time right here:

"Or are you seriously trying to tell me that WB was negatively affected in any way whatsoever by The Dark Knight Rises not making as much money as The Avengers last year?"

Note the punctuation known as a "question mark" at the end. In the English language, this denotes a question being asked. One you've refused to answer repeatedly, because you don't have an answer.

this is really simple......when somebody doesn't share your exact opinion on something you go off on one......just like you did above.your known for it......the above post just drives the point home.

Yes, I'm known for calling out ill-informed opinions for what they are. Rather proud of it, in fact. Just like you're quite the master of avoiding answering simple questions in favor of trying to troll me.

One last time, answer this very direct, very simple question:

How was Dark Knight Rises hurt by being #2 to Avengers last year?

All you've got to do is answer that question, and explain how it then relates the same way to Man of Steel and Iron Man 3, and you conclusively win this little argument.

But clearly you'd rather continue to fling insults and commentary about me rather than address the actual argument. The sure sign of a losing position in any debate.

[JokerFC]

ok man you win.I don't have nearly the interest in this that you do.

I have been told to disengage here and Im going to.my next post in here will be about the movie itself.

[Jmacq1]

Everything I've seen looks pretty awesome. I think my only complaint so far is that it feels like I've already seen the movie what with all the previews and featurettes and whatnot. The marketing machine is in crazy full-force mode for this, that's for sure.

Hopefully some big/good moments are being saved for the film itself.

[JokerFC]

aside from the excellently structured "you are not alone" spot I haven't seen too much.......but then again I don't think there has been that much to see?in a good way..I feel Snyder has really delivered here and Im really really pulling for this to do well.

my friend in work Charlie is a HUGE Supes mark....and he has avoided every single trailer and TV spot.I have to admire him for that.....I would have to cave eventually.

[Jmacq1]

Oh, there's a ton out there if you go look, though to be fair a lot of it recycles the same footage across multiple spots (though nowhere near as bad as Retaliation recycled that Ninja Mountainside fight). Tons of TV ads, two theatrical trailers, one "Nokia Exclusive" trailer, and a 13 minute "behind the scenes" featurette (which isn't as much footage as it sounds and again...much is recycled from the other trailers.

[Jmacq1]

Reviews are starting to come in, and it's sounding like it's going to be the kind of "good but flawed" film that audiences will eat up. Sounds like there's tons of action, and many of the complaints seem to run in the "takes itself too seriously/not much sense of humor/where's Christopher Reeve?" vein.

[BEAM]

Reviews are starting to come in, and it's sounding like it's going to be the kind of "good but flawed" film that audiences will eat up. Sounds like there's tons of action, and many of the complaints seem to run in the "takes itself too seriously/not much sense of humor/where's Christopher Reeve?" vein.

Hmmm. Good but flawed. Takes itself too seriously. Lots of action (but probably shot better by Snyder than Nolan). Sounds like the response to Dark Knight Rises. I can live with that. DKR was fine by my book.

No where does it say Superman must be funny. The bumbling Clark Kent was perfected by Christopher Reeves. It fit with the times. But that isn't who he is in every Superman story. Im willing to sit and watch a more serious Clark struggling with his place in this world given his alien heritage.

Bring it on. Can't wait for this weekend.

[Troynos]

Superman isn't supposed to have humor.

[Jmacq1]

Superman isn't supposed to have humor.

That's not really true. Superman's often portrayed as having a bit of a cocky, cheeky sense of humor (in costume). But that's also something he develops over time, and this movie is basically a "Superman: Year One" kinda film.

But I -am- in the camp that definitely doesn't see "not funny enough" as being a flaw that will detract from -my- enjoyment. I freaking LOVED Dark Knight Rises, and a lot of the reviews I'm seeing so far are in a similar vein.

[BEAM]

Superman isn't funny.

But Clark Kent can tell a mean joke.

[JokerFC]

Reviews are starting to come in, and it's sounding like it's going to be the kind of "good but flawed" film that audiences will eat up. Sounds like there's tons of action, and many of the complaints seem to run in the "takes itself too seriously/not much sense of humor/where's Christopher Reeve?" vein.

Interesting.....sounds good to me.

I have waited for years to see Supes crack heads on screen and to see current tech display his powers.sounds like its finally gonna happen.

[RandomViper117]

The reviews aren't surprising. Wouldn't be surprised if it got to low 30s by the end of the week as more critics send in their reviews.

Unless a Superman movie is a flat out homage of the Donner films it will be a pariah to critics. Superman Returns is still 79% on Rotten Tomatoes and the critics loved it.

Man of Steel on the other hand they hate for not being a Donner homage.

And they also hate it for not being a Marvelesque movie with witty lines and humor sprinkled in every 10 minutes.

Basically critics hate it because it doesn't have stuff they like or want, not because it's a bad movie.

Which is why critics should be taken with a grain of salt. Sometimes they can judge a movie correctly, but in cases like this, it is impossible for them to let go of preconceived notions and review a movie fairly.

After Superman Returns audiences said they were tired of the Donner take and wanted something new. They wanted a Superman with more action. Critics said no leave it like this forever.

With Man of Steel we have a Superman movie that has moved beyond the Donner style and has tons of action. Audiences will love it, critics will hate it.

[Troynos]

Who listens to what critics say anyways?

[JokerFC]

I like to hear positive things about a movie Im looking forward to.....BUT if I don't it will never put me off seeing that movie.

[RolandofGilead]

The most interesting critique I've seen multiple times was that the movie's reliance on giant action sequences reminded them too much of Avengers. Now just help me here. Avengers was the biggest movie last year, one of the biggest ever and suddenly it's a bad thing?

[Troynos]

It's also Superman... How do you showcase what he can do without big action sequances?

[RolandofGilead]

I think they're misconstruing the technological limitations of the late 70s for high art.

[Jinx723]

Who listens to what critics say anyways?

If I listened to critics, I would never go to the Movies.
I'll decide if I like it or not.

[Zarana]

Who listens to what critics say anyways?

I do. Half in the bag just saved me from giving will smith $20 to see after earth. I'll probably wait for their review before watching this thing in a theatre.

[RolandofGilead]

A critic won't dissuade me from seeing any movie I really want to see. But a positive review may make me just a little more excited about the movie.

[Iron Guru]

I do. Half in the bag just saved me from giving will smith $20 to see after earth. I'll probably wait for their review before watching this thing in a theatre.

Ha! I usually like his stuff, but I just wasn't feeling the trailers for this one. I will eventually try to watch it though. The Critics serve their purposes, but I'll be the final judge on if I think a movie is good or not.

[JokerFC]

The most interesting critique I've seen multiple times was that the movie's reliance on giant action sequences reminded them too much of Avengers. Now just help me here. Avengers was the biggest movie last year, one of the biggest ever and suddenly it's a bad thing?

LOL yeah I know.....ridiculous isn't it?

Im pumped for this now.....bring it on.

[BEAM]

So we've all been waiting for big action scenes in a Superman movie. We finally get them and critics are complaining? Please. I've all but ignored what professional critics have to say and rely on my peers.

[JokerFC]

A critic won't dissuade me from seeing any movie I really want to see. But a positive review may make me just a little more excited about the movie.

very well put......this is exactly my sentiment.

take Battleship for instance.......I wanted to see that because I thought it looked fun.no amount of negativity put me off seeing it and I enjoyed it.still do

then there was XMO:Wolverine........same as above only the critics were correct this time.....LOL.

[SportsandStuff]

[QUOTE=speedlgt;4367979]its a hard sale I think for this day and age and it says something about our time. the heroes you mention are all "good guys" and true heroes.

but superman is pure Good, and i think people dont want that. They want Dark justice (batman), Flawed asshole, genuis cool heroics (ironman) Young angst nerd w lots of problems (spiderman)

superman like his counterpart in marvel Capt America have the same problem in being almost too perfect and too good. There symbols of whats Good and great about being a heroic

Maybe they can revisit the whole evil Superman concept they did with Superman 3 to show Superman can be flawed

[gyrapados]

[QUOTE=speedlgt;4367979]its a hard sale I think for this day and age and it says something about our time. the heroes you mention are all "good guys" and true heroes.

but superman is pure Good, and i think people dont want that. They want Dark justice (batman), Flawed asshole, genuis cool heroics (ironman) Young angst nerd w lots of problems (spiderman)

superman like his counterpart in marvel Capt America have the same problem in being almost too perfect and too good. There symbols of whats Good and great about being a heroic

Maybe they can revisit the whole evil Superman concept they did with Superman 3 to show Superman can be flawed

And those are some of the reasons why I love Superman and Cap so much. To me Superman is the definition of what a super hero is. He's the standard.

As for revisiting Superman 3.......lets not and say we did. Thanks.

[BEAM]

John Ary of AICN provides a nice, spoiler free review.

Man of Steel Review - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N7MVO26ySk)



I grabbed this Superman shirt off Tee Fury. It's subtle, using a lot of Supes' iconic imagery.

The Limited Edition Cheap T-Shirt, Gone in 24hours! | TeeFury (http://m.teefury.com/)

[Jinx723]

Already bought my tickets for tomorrow afternoon, can't wait.

[Echo7Solo]

Just got back from seeing it and all I can say is "damn". Look out Marvel daddy is home

[BEAM]

Good to hear. I'm hoping to get a showing in this weekend. Wedding anniversary and Father's Day are obsticles I have to overcome to get to my ultimate goal.

[RolandofGilead]

Saturday morning show with my girls. We already have or "hope" t-shirts ready to go.

[speedlgt]

I am not anti marvel at all I love marvel....but after thsi move All I will say is DC has always had the top 2 heroes of all time! I dont care what anyone says thats the law of the land. and NOW they the 2 best COMIC book MOVIES OF ALL TIME!

[JokerFC]

excellent movie.well done Snyder & Goyer.is it flawless?fuck no but it was excellent all the same.

Shannon stole the movie IMO......Jesus he was awesome.repeat viewings will determine where it falls in my top ten comic book movies.but I see it being in the top 5.....its the Superman movie I have personally been waiting for.

Im am now very interested to see what kind of opening weekend and overall take it garners.WB have already greenlite the sequel and are said to be "fast-tracking it"

[speedlgt]

I cant believe that rotten tomatoes is at 59% are these people seeing the same movie i am ? or are theses just FUCK critics that wanna slam a movie? in any case I believe rotten tomatoes is loosing whatever cred it had. I Will no longer use it and also this girl Grace Randolph from bleeding cool is an idiot. She says man of steel is about Male Dominace and is anti women? if you sub her on youtube nows a good to time un sub.

[Jmacq1]

I cant believe that rotten tomatoes is at 59% are these people seeing the same movie i am ? or are theses just FUCK critics that wanna slam a movie? in any case I believe rotten tomatoes is loosing whatever cred it had. I Will no longer use it and also this girl Grace Randolph from bleeding cool is an idiot. She says man of steel is about Male Dominace and is anti women? if you sub her on youtube nows a good to time un sub.

I don't put much stock in critics in general, and I haven't seen the film yet but I suspect I'll like it a lot when I do, but I think I can understand at least a few of the criticisms I've seen.

I mean, if it's true that Superman spends the last 15-30 minutes of the movie smashing Zod/his flunkies through skyscrapers and doesn't really do anything to protect any of the people inside them when they collapse...I'd say that's a pretty egregious failure of character on the writer's part.

It's one thing of it's the bad guys smashing -him- through buildings, but if it's the other way around, and Superman doesn't seem to care about it, that's...a pretty big deal. Yeah, collateral damage may not be completely avoidable when demigods clash downtown, but making no effort at all to prevent it isn't really Superman's way.

So..if this is all true, it basically sounds like they sabotaged (a bit of) Superman's character in favor of "more punching!" and the spectacle of destruction required of a would-be summer blockbuster. I'll be curious to see if the critical reception hurts its' box-office take (I kinda doubt it will). Everyone seems to agree that A: It looks great and B: It's action-packed, so I'd imagine it'll perform extremely well.

[JokerFC]

Hmmm good points there.....and some I admittedly hadnt thought of.

[RolandofGilead]

Man of Steel Movie Review & Film Summary (2013) | Roger Ebert (http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/man-of-steel-2013)

Pretty good review from the late Roger Ebert's site.

[USAgent]

I don't put much stock in critics in general, and I haven't seen the film yet but I suspect I'll like it a lot when I do, but I think I can understand at least a few of the criticisms I've seen.

I mean, if it's true that Superman spends the last 15-30 minutes of the movie smashing Zod/his flunkies through skyscrapers and doesn't really do anything to protect any of the people inside them when they collapse...I'd say that's a pretty egregious failure of character on the writer's part.

It's one thing of it's the bad guys smashing -him- through buildings, but if it's the other way around, and Superman doesn't seem to care about it, that's...a pretty big deal. Yeah, collateral damage may not be completely avoidable when demigods clash downtown, but making no effort at all to prevent it isn't really Superman's way.

So..if this is all true, it basically sounds like they sabotaged (a bit of) Superman's character in favor of "more punching!" and the spectacle of destruction required of a would-be summer blockbuster. I'll be curious to see if the critical reception hurts its' box-office take (I kinda doubt it will). Everyone seems to agree that A: It looks great and B: It's action-packed, so I'd imagine it'll perform extremely well.

I think the idea was to assume that Metropolis was all about evacuating the city when the giant ship comes down and starts smashing things- and Superman DOES go out of his way- putting himself in danger- to save people when he can- BUT: Every massive act of destruction has a crowd of people watching it like it's the first massive act of destruction they have seen vs. a huge battle happening and everyone in the city trying to get the heck out of Dodge. Even the Daily Planet staff sit around watching things happen up until the building RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM crashes down. I imagine the fact that SO many people of Metropolis are killed without Supes seeming to give a damn- he does- that the motive for Lex Luthor hating Superman in a S2 has been built. (just a guess) Overall- I fall in the fanboy category here and give it a rating of "AWESOME!" it's what I've wanted from a Superman movie since... well.. forever... I think the reviewers need to get the Donner version of Superman out of there heads.

[Jmacq1]

I think the idea was to assume that Metropolis was all about evacuating the city when the giant ship comes down and starts smashing things- and Superman DOES go out of his way- putting himself in danger- to save people when he can- BUT: Every massive act of destruction has a crowd of people watching it like it's the first massive act of destruction they have seen vs. a huge battle happening and everyone in the city trying to get the heck out of Dodge. Even the Daily Planet staff sit around watching things happen up until the building RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM crashes down. I imagine the fact that SO many people of Metropolis are killed without Supes seeming to give a damn- he does- that the motive for Lex Luthor hating Superman in a S2 has been built. (just a guess) Overall- I fall in the fanboy category here and give it a rating of "AWESOME!" it's what I've wanted from a Superman movie since... well.. forever... I think the reviewers need to get the Donner version of Superman out of there heads.

I'm sure there are a bazillion fanon rationalizations that could be given for events in the film. I'm not saying I totally agree (haven't seen the film to judge for myself), just that I can see where the criticisms are coming from.

I will be impressed (if not necessarily surprised) if the massive destruction is indeed made a big plot point in the sequel. Given the Nolans are producing, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was...it'd be very in-keeping with their approach to Batman and "Escalation."

[RolandofGilead]

Just like Batman's habit of blowing up parked cars in his way without checking for passengers, sending police cars tumbling and crashing over freeway overpasses, and beating the stuffing out of a SWAT team in order to "save" the hostages was so thoroughly addressed.

[USAgent]

Some wrecked cars and hurt cops is not a BIG point- though it does go a ways towards explaining the cops so heated to take batman down there at the end when he's been doing a decent job of cleaning up the crime- it's still a far cry from the total ruin that Metropolis is in by the end of MoS- sure, it could go either way- but I really do hope to see that used.

[pig iron grenadier]

I think a few dead bystanders when the entire world is at stake is acceptable...... that's just me though.

[pig iron grenadier]

I still don't get the lack of female roles in the movie though in the reviews..WTF?

[RolandofGilead]

They've got to complain about something.

[Troynos]

I still don't get the lack of female roles in the movie though in the reviews..WTF?

There's Lois Land and Faora (however it's spelt).

That's not enough?

[pig iron grenadier]

There's Lois Land and Faora (however it's spelt).

That's not enough?
That's my point...they are complaining about them not being strong characters somehow...???

[USAgent]

I still don't get the lack of female roles in the movie though in the reviews..WTF?

I don't think it's the lack of female roles so much as women 'being' characters vs. 'having' character. they could have had their roles labeled as "Martha kent- concerned mother" "Lois lane- tenacious reporter" "Faoroa-ul: bitch" and that was all they were- end of characterization.
But I'm OK with that in a movie about Superman. you could say the same for Perry White, or the military guys... Supes and Zod had character.. Jor-El had character... I get what the critics are saying- I just don't agree that in a Superman movie that everyone being a fully fleshed out character is a priority- not a lot of screen time for that really.

[pig iron grenadier]

I don't think it's the lack of female roles so much as women 'being' characters vs. 'having' character. they could have had their roles labeled as "Martha kent- concerned mother" "Lois lane- tenacious reporter" "Faoroa-ul: bitch" and that was all they were- end of characterization.
But I'm OK with that in a movie about Superman. you could say the same for Perry White, or the military guys... Supes and Zod had character.. Jor-El had character... I get what the critics are saying- I just don't agree that in a Superman movie that everyone being a fully fleshed out character is a priority- not a lot of screen time for that really.

No one complained about that with black Widow or Maria Hill.....neither really fully-developed characters and Black Widow haddd a bunch of screen time.

[BEAM]

What do you guys make of David Goyer's comments about MoS setting up the Justice League by making Superman the first public super hero, thus allowing other super powered beings to come forward. And would WB want to incorporate Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy or have it stand on it's own and reboot Batman?

Here's his comment:
“It is our intention that, in success, [Man of Steel] would be the zero issue and from this point onward, possible films could expand into a shared universe. In our world, the Man of Steel world, Zack has gone on record saying that we’re implying there are other superheroes in this world. But I don’t know that they’ve come forward yet. The idea is that Superman is the first one. There might be people helping people, but not in costumes, and that Superman comes forward and announces himself to the world. In him announcing himself, he’s the one that changes things.”

[USAgent]

No one complained about that with black Widow or Maria Hill.....neither really fully-developed characters and Black Widow haddd a bunch of screen time.

Black widow wasn't exactly 1 dimensional though. I think that goes a long way from having her in tight pants kicking bad guys in the junk. She has her "ledger" bit and the moments with hawkeye... no female character had that in Supes- but there wasn't time for that either... maybe they WANTED time to be made for that...

What do you guys make of David Goyer's comments about MoS setting up the Justice League by making Superman the first public super hero, thus allowing other super powered beings to come forward. And would WB want to incorporate Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy or have it stand on it's own and reboot Batman?

Here's his comment:
“It is our intention that, in success, [Man of Steel] would be the zero issue and from this point onward, possible films could expand into a shared universe. In our world, the Man of Steel world, Zack has gone on record saying that we’re implying there are other superheroes in this world. But I don’t know that they’ve come forward yet. The idea is that Superman is the first one. There might be people helping people, but not in costumes, and that Superman comes forward and announces himself to the world. In him announcing himself, he’s the one that changes things.”


DK should stand on it's own... which is tough since it is so new- but I'm certainly ready for a Batman that exists IN the world of costumed heroes/villains -and SM3 went straight into a reboot so i think studios saw that a franchise can... reboot... in the time frame of a sequel successfully without too much worry about people getting lost...

[solid.wii]

Ma Kent had some nice scenes and even though she needed to be saved, she also provides guidance for Clark. Kinda like Aunt May.

[USAgent]

Ma Kent had some nice scenes and even though she needed to be saved, she also provides guidance for Clark. Kinda like Aunt May.

yeah... concerned mother.
vs. Jonathon Kent. Costner easily owned that role- he was proud, disappointed, hurt...
I liked Ma Kent fine in the movie- I don't think they needed more characterization- this is more trying to acknowledge the complaint of lack of female characterization. More of ma Kent, as good as she was, probably would not have even changed that- i think the focus the critics mean is 'not enough characterization for Lois' It could really just come from -Ma has to be rescued after giving up the ship- Lois has to be rescued repeatedly and is always goo-goo eyed over Superman- the 10yr old captain (or whatever) "He's HAWT!" while men sacrifice their lives to save the day- push the button in the nick-of-time, save the trapped intern, stand up to the aliens, come-back-from-the-dead to save the woman (repeatedly) tells the woman where to shoot, tells the woman how to stop the bad guys, etc etc...
But the movie is MAN of STEEL. Not Lois and Clark (thank goodness)

[JokerFC]

my sister Saoirse and her son came over this evening so I brought Sean to the flicks to see this.it was my 2nd viewing today and man it was great stuff.

Im so hopeful now about DCs future in movies.I kept thinking a post credit scene with Reynolds GL introducing himself to Supes would have been awesome.but that's obviously not the way they are going.

Also I think Nolans movies should stand on their own.plus he has wrapped up his version of Batman fairly tight(IMO)with the end of DKR.I think(not sure) CN has stated himself that his work would not be part of any(theoretical)JL universe.

I think Batman can be successfully rebooted to join this universe very easily even though Nolans movies are so fresh to the public......I mean its Batman we will always lap him up.

[Nemesis*Prime]

I saw "Man of Steel" today and really enjoyed it, and as someone who has never been a big Superman fan that is saying something.

[pig iron grenadier]

Black widow wasn't exactly 1 dimensional though. I think that goes a long way from having her in tight pants kicking bad guys in the junk. She has her "ledger" bit and the moments with hawkeye... no female character had that in Supes- but there wasn't time for that either... maybe they WANTED time to be made for that...

.

In IM2 she didn't have Hawkeye..she was just tough eye candy that was apparently smart...she was still pretty mysterious in avengers....

I think ultimately they are complaining that there aren't female super-hero movies....Lois served the role of Lois..she wasn't always needing help.....she was simply "human" what was any person gonna do against super-powered aliens?..people just wanna complain...

[USAgent]

In IM2 she didn't have Hawkeye..she was just tough eye candy that was apparently smart...she was still pretty mysterious in avengers....

mysterious was her characterization in Avengers. the issue wasn't the complaint of lack of women characters in IM2 was it? (though even Pepper has character in that) It was 'why wasn't it a complaint about black widow in avengers?' Because in avengers she had a solid character built. in IM2 she was not really anything but a background character (like Maria Hill in Avengers) When you're comparing critic reviews of two different movies I think it's just going to be what the critic noticed- in Avengers the same critic might not have been struck by a lack of women because BW had plenty of screen time and was doing something important in all of it while that same critic watching Superman notices that Lois Lane sort of sucks, why does she suck? is she annoying? is it because she is more like the old TV serial Lois and just there to rescue? Does the critic want her to be more like terry hatcher? i don't know... I'm just saying "here's 'probably' why they think woman got the shaft in Superman." :) (got the shaft)

[USAgent]

I think ultimately they are complaining that there aren't female super-hero movies....Lois served the role of Lois..she wasn't always needing help.....she was simply "human" what was any person gonna do against super-powered aliens?..people just wanna complain...

Aww- you added!

When did Lois NOT need help from Superman? As soon as his presence is known Lois needs help non-stop. or is there to comfort Superman. she was a prop piece for Superman to react to. Again- I DON'T mind that of the character. But for someone looking at it as more than just a rabid Superman action movie fanboy (me)- it IS a valid point of the critic and not just them complaining. the critic that brought up the 'woman' issue even gave the flick a higher score than you did :) 2.5? pffff...

[USAgent]

edit- oops, sorry Pig. the 2.5 was nirvana. you are a solid 4/5 (which is essentially a 3/4- the same as the critic) :)

[pig iron grenadier]

mysterious was her characterization in Avengers. the issue wasn't the complaint of lack of women characters in IM2 was it? (though even Pepper has character in that) It was 'why wasn't it a complaint about black widow in avengers?' Because in avengers she had a solid character built. in IM2 she was not really anything but a background character (like Maria Hill in Avengers) When you're comparing critic reviews of two different movies I think it's just going to be what the critic noticed- in Avengers the same critic might not have been struck by a lack of women because BW had plenty of screen time and was doing something important in all of it while that same critic watching Superman notices that Lois Lane sort of sucks, why does she suck? is she annoying? is it because she is more like the old TV serial Lois and just there to rescue? Does the critic want her to be more like terry hatcher? i don't know... I'm just saying "here's 'probably' why they think woman got the shaft in Superman." :) (got the shaft)


slight/minor sppoilers
I just disagree and think people are being situationally picky and finding fault that doesn't exist... (I also disagree that Widow is really fleshed out-she isn't, but you do know all you need to-I can agree that she suits and fits her role).... Lois Finds out there is an alien/other hiding on earth, finds him when no one else on the planet could (not the govt black area-nsa, cia, fbi, etc) no one found him but Lois....she went to the 1st ship when no one else was asked to go, she went to the 2nd alien ship when no one else was asked to go, she helped put the bomb in place when no other civilian except Hamilton was asked to go.......She did all these thing bravely, without fuss, unobtrusively, and didn't need saving except in one or 2 scenes.......but in those situations any fleshly human would have needed help....Lois isn't a super hero yet she still picked up a gun and shot aliens.....good for her. In the perry scene..they were all going to die without Supes..the males were as weak as the female.....

I do have some issues with the plot and some dialogue, but the role of women in superman : Man of Steel is just picky and ridiculous, and unfounded IMO

[USAgent]

slight/minor sppoilers
I just disagree and think people are being situationally picky and finding fault that doesn't exist... .

that's sort of the job of a critic. :) I would suck as a critic because I prefer to find the fun and awesome in everything. people would stop listening to me because every review would be "Awesome!" And that just doesn't cut it.

(I also disagree that Widow is really fleshed out-she isn't, but you do know all you need to-I can agree that she suits and fits her role)

yes- disagree because I think BW had as much character as any male lead in Avengers- can the same really be said for Lois?

.... Lois Finds out there is an alien/other hiding on earth, finds him when no one else on the planet could (not the govt black area-nsa, cia, fbi, etc) no one found him but Lois....

She broke the story- she was used to introduce Superman- intrepid reporter

she went to the 1st ship when no one else was asked to go,

to be rescued...

she went to the 2nd alien ship when no one else was asked to go,

to be rescued...

she helped put the bomb in place when no other civilian except Hamilton was asked to go.......


because Jor-El told her how to do it- she didn't figure anything out... and she goes along why? to be rescued later...



She did all these thing bravely, without fuss, unobtrusively, and didn't need saving except in one or 2 scenes.......but in those situations any fleshly human would have needed help....Lois isn't a super hero yet she still picked up a gun and shot aliens.....good for her. .

...and it's not that Lois is 'just' a human and so she can't do anything (again- even blasting the aliens was really just doing what Jor-El was telling her to do... she was no Ripley) it's that there was nothing that she did that was her being heroic



In the perry scene..they were all going to die without Supes..the males were as weak as the female.....

They were ALL going to die but who was dying as heroes staying behind to save the female intern? The two guys. Such brave, strong men staying behind and giving up their lives because the woman got trapped... hmmmmm

[USAgent]

I do have some issues with the plot and some dialogue, but the role of women in superman : Man of Steel is just picky and ridiculous, and unfounded IMO

damn you! :)


don't make me multi-quote :)

minor Plot issues and corny ass dialogue are my only gripes- still the best summer movie so far!

[Jinx723]

I just saw Man of Steel over an hour ago and I loved it. I am one of those die hard fans of the Richard Donner's Superman movies, that his Movies are the definitive big screen Superman. You can't top the Christopher Reeves' Superman, he was perfect as both Clark & Kal-El. Man of Steel is a reboot for the newer generation and I think it was well done for today's culture. We've all wanted a Superman Movie with the action that was done in MoS. I still think it's just a tad too dark for the Superman I know and love. There was only one thing I didn't like in the Movie,

SPOILER!!!


















































I didn't like how the battle between Kal-El and General Zod ended. With 10 years of Smallville and what the comics had in the early days. I've always believed that Superman could never take a life. And to see what he did to Zod, well...
Times have changed and people don't see heroes without a flaw. That's why Iron Man has done so well. And with MoS being "darker" than all other incarnations of Superman, I can see why it was done.

[pig iron grenadier]

USAgent, I'll agree to disagree..... humans aren't super-heroes..super heroes are, if a normal person is trained to be a ninja or trained to be a super spy and they have all the appropriate weaponry--there's that..if anything Widow nearly pissing herself when the Hulk almost crunched her showed on the helicarrioer, and almost pissed herslef when banner faked her out in south america... that she was only strong in her willingness to carry on forward in the crazy world of super-powered beings....she killed a couple aliens and helped a man turn on a big wormhole machine... she overcame her fear. That makes her strong..I see nothing different in what Lois did...If I go back through the Avengers movie I'm sure I can find several scenes where she was "saved" by super-men...

;)

[USAgent]

SPOILER!!!


















































I didn't like how the battle between Kal-El and General Zod ended. With 10 years of Smallville and what the comics had in the early days. I've always believed that Superman could never take a life. And to see what he did to Zod, well...
Times have changed and people don't see heroes without a flaw. That's why Iron Man has done so well. And with MoS being "darker" than all other incarnations of Superman, I can see why it was done.

I'm in this discussion elsewhere as well-
In the comics pre-crisis Superman killed Zod- it was the only way to stop him.
Superman II- what happened? endless falling forever?

[pig iron grenadier]

I just saw Man of Steel over an hour ago and I loved it. I am one of those die hard fans of the Richard Donner's Superman movies, that his Movies are the definitive big screen Superman. You can't top the Christopher Reeves' Superman, he was perfect as both Clark & Kal-El. Man of Steel is a reboot for the newer generation and I think it was well done for today's culture. We've all wanted a Superman Movie with the action that was done in MoS. I still think it's just a tad too dark for the Superman I know and love. There was only one thing I didn't like in the Movie,

SPOILER!!!


















































I didn't like how the battle between Kal-El and General Zod ended. With 10 years of Smallville and what the comics had in the early days. I've always believed that Superman could never take a life. And to see what he did to Zod, well...
Times have changed and people don't see heroes without a flaw. That's why Iron Man has done so well. And with MoS being "darker" than all other incarnations of Superman, I can see why it was done.

I see why it was done..it was nearly one of those forced moral choices, but I understand DC's choice. I'm content to believe that today's audience needs most of it's heroes "more realistic", and willing to do gray area things......people like gray now....

[USAgent]

USAgent, I'll agree to disagree..... humans aren't super-heroes..super heroes are, if a normal person is trained to be a ninja or trained to be a super spy and they have all the appropriate weaponry--there's that..if anything Widow nearly pissing herself when the Hulk almost crunched her showed on the helicarrioer, and almost pissed herslef when banner faked her out in south america... that she was only strong in her willingness to carry on forward in the crazy world of super-powered beings....she killed a couple aliens and helped a man turn on a big wormhole machine... she overcame her fear. That makes her strong..I see nothing different in what Lois did...If I go back through the Avengers movie I'm sure I can find several scenes where she was "saved" by super-men...

;)

It's NOT about being saved by men because The Black Widow could have been saved a thousand time- but if you left her roles otherwise untouched it wouldn't matter- she still had character and was not one dimensional from everything else she did. MoS did not take any time to develop- at all- any of the female roles. WHAT did Lois do other than put herself in danger and need to be rescued? Was there anything that she did that did not begin with her putting herself in harms way and end with superman rescuing her? you could delete her role 100% and have the same movie. all you have to change is Jor-El tells Kal about the engine instead of lois- she didn't even actiavte the ship to turn it into the bomb- the professor did after she couldn't do it :)
l

[pig iron grenadier]

It's NOT about being saved by men because The Black Widow could have been saved a thousand time- but if you left her roles otherwise untouched it wouldn't matter- she still had character and was not one dimensional from everything else she did. MoS did not take any time to develop- at all- any of the female roles. WHAT did Lois do other than put herself in danger and need to be rescued? Was there anything that she did that did not begin with her putting herself in harms way and end with superman rescuing her? you could delete her role 100% and have the same movie. all you have to change is Jor-El tells Kal about the engine instead of lois- she didn't even actiavte the ship to turn it into the bomb- the professor did after she couldn't do it :)
l

She's an investigative journalist..not a scientist/engineer....ugh. She had many character moments that showed her character..not giving in to Perry, risking her career with the leaked story, being ballsy enough to go into a military black op with the mystery ship that she knew could end in her being silenced-at the behest of the Canadian govt, risking her life for the story the earth and a man she barely understands.......the movie shows she has integrity, self-sacrifice, humility, intelligence, courage, and self-confidence to boot.....I can't help it no one else picked up on those character traits...

Maybe the reviewer was looking for one of the women from Sex In The City....

[pig iron grenadier]

It's NOT about being saved by men because The Black Widow could have been saved a thousand time- but if you left her roles otherwise untouched it wouldn't matter- she still had character and was not one dimensional from everything else she did.
l

Black widow could have been gone from avengers..come on....

hawkeye could have gone to south America.....someone else could have went to the machine......what else did she do?

her defining scene was getting Loki to spill the plan.....that was her true part in the movie... Hill could have done that or coulson maybe...
we needed the mewling quim line though...

[USAgent]

She's an investigative journalist..not a scientist/engineer....ugh. She had many character moments that showed her character..not giving in to Perry, risking her career with the leaked story, being ballsy enough to go into a military black op with the mystery ship that she knew could end in her being silenced-at the behest of the Canadian govt, risking her life for the story the earth and a man she barely understands.......the movie shows she has integrity, self-sacrifice, humility, intelligence, courage, and self-confidence to boot.....I can't help it no one else picked up on those character traits...

Maybe the reviewer was looking for one of the women from Sex In The City....

but again, all that did was put her in danger to be saved- there was no... emotion? I guess... I don't know... I think it really comes down to the fact that any of the women could be removed from the movie and it's the SAME movie... that's sort of sad. Take BW from the Avengers and it doesn't work. her character drives too much of the story. take Pepper out of IM and again- it doesn't work. but the women in Superman really did nothing for the story... I don't mind that- but to say the critics are making up things or looking for things that aren't there... it's a valid point the critic is making if you can remove the women all together and have the same movie...

[USAgent]

BW's role could be REPLACED but NOT removed. that's the point. Sure, any character could do it- but it was BW.

Lois could have NOT been in the movie at all (like luthor- keep her for a sequel) and replace her with NOTHING and it's the same movie

[pig iron grenadier]

BW's role could be REPLACED but NOT removed. that's the point. Sure, any character could do it- but it was BW.

Lois could have NOT been in the movie at all (like luthor- keep her for a sequel) and replace her with NOTHING and it's the same movie

nope..someone had to uncover superman was real and not a myth-that he existed..without Lois there is no guarantee he would have turned himself in, because Pa Kent made him paranoid of the government....and rightfully so...as they handed him right over. She also saved a bunch of soldiers lives by giving herself up in the one scene...otherwise blood would have been spilled.

Superman turning himself over was pretty determined by him seeing the lack of fear from Lois and her compassion for him, because she learned his secret..not correct.

[USAgent]

nope..someone had to uncover superman was real and not a myth-that he existed..without Lois there is no guarantee he would have turned himself in, because Pa Kent made him paranoid of the government....and rightfully so...as they handed him right over. She also saved a bunch of soldiers lives by giving herself up in the one scene...otherwise blood would have been spilled.

Superman turning himself over was pretty determined by him seeing the lack of fear from Lois and her compassion for him, because she learned his secret..not correct.

no... nobody had to do that... Supeman found his ship- activated the beacon- brought the bad giys- talked to the priest- turned himself over- talked to ghost Jor about the engine united with the professor and military guy to show trust- saved the world.... then met lois. done

[pig iron grenadier]

Nah, i disagree..Lois put a personal face on the fact that Pa Kent was not completely correct. She showed that people could understand and feel empathy for him, and not be scared crapless.

But I'm Done Lo........one of us is clearly reading in too much or one not enough...or both ;)

[USAgent]

http://i877.photobucket.com/albums/ab340/Hordak/Crazy%20Stuff%20to%20Keep/tumblr_m72fmgEkI91rsdkx1o2_400.jpg (http://s877.photobucket.com/user/Hordak/media/Crazy%20Stuff%20to%20Keep/tumblr_m72fmgEkI91rsdkx1o2_400.jpg.html)


...but i'll still love you in the MU thread :)

[pig iron grenadier]

<<<<Sally Field Moment :)

[JokerFC]

I'm in this discussion elsewhere as well-
In the comics pre-crisis Superman killed Zod- it was the only way to stop him.
Superman II- what happened? endless falling forever?

bingo.

I don't see what the fuss is about here.

after seeing MOS twice I can say iot has cracked my Superhero movie top ten for sure.it didn't tick all the boxes for me like Avengers did though.

[solid.wii]

BW's role could be REPLACED but NOT removed. that's the point. Sure, any character could do it- but it was BW.

Lois could have NOT been in the movie at all (like luthor- keep her for a sequel) and replace her with NOTHING and it's the same movie

no... nobody had to do that... Supeman found his ship- activated the beacon- brought the bad giys- talked to the priest- turned himself over- talked to ghost Jor about the engine united with the professor and military guy to show trust- saved the world.... then met lois. done

But the key plot point was that Lois found out Superman was Clark and could reveal that to the world....story of the century. She chose not to which causes Superman to be able to take that leap of faith that humans can be trusted.

[USAgent]

But the key plot point was that Lois found out Superman was Clark and could reveal that to the world....story of the century. She chose not to which causes Superman to be able to take that leap of faith that humans can be trusted.

erase lois-
Superman gets called out by Zod.
Superman talks... TO A RANDOM PRIEST that convinces him the trust has to start somewhere.
nope- don't need lois.
Ans don't get me wrong- i loved MoS- I thought it was awesome as heck. I just understand the 'women's roles' complaint. I just don't care because I don't think it mattered in the movie- i don't care that every woman part could be erased- even his mom Lara for cryin' out loud didn't need to be there because the fact that he was natural born really didn't matter in the grand scheme of things- only that he was encoded with all of Kryptons junk.

[USAgent]

... i think my one main complaint with MoS (outside some bad dialogue) was that no one really seemed to care that aliens had attacked and were threatening to destroy the earth. where was the rioting and looting in Metropilos- people seemed to be going about their business as usual... and why on earth is a small church in Kansas EMPTY in this time of crisis? oh, that's right- everyone is over at ihop having breakfast... :)

[solid.wii]

... i think my one main complaint with MoS (outside some bad dialogue) was that no one really seemed to care that aliens had attacked and were threatening to destroy the earth. where was the rioting and looting in Metropilos- people seemed to be going about their business as usual... and why on earth is a small church in Kansas EMPTY in this time of crisis? oh, that's right- everyone is over at ihop having breakfast... :)

You act as though they were attacking Gotham heheh..

[solid.wii]

erase lois-
Superman gets called out by Zod.
Superman talks... TO A RANDOM PRIEST that convinces him the trust has to start somewhere.
nope- don't need lois.
Ans don't get me wrong- i loved MoS- I thought it was awesome as heck. I just understand the 'women's roles' complaint. I just don't care because I don't think it mattered in the movie- i don't care that every woman part could be erased- even his mom Lara for cryin' out loud didn't need to be there because the fact that he was natural born really didn't matter in the grand scheme of things- only that he was encoded with all of Kryptons junk.

Yes but the "somewhere" is when Lois exhibits compassion towards Clark. What some may underestimate is how that may or may not have weighed on his decision to turn himself in. Without strong women roles in Clarks life, he may not turn out as good as he ended up being. Pa Kent even thought maybe let the kids die in the school bus. You can totally see that Ma Kent taught her son the value of compassion.

[USAgent]

Yes but the "somewhere" is when Lois exhibits compassion towards Clark. What some may underestimate is how that may or may not have weighed on his decision to turn himself in. Without strong women roles in Clarks life, he may not turn out as good as he ended up being. Pa Kent even thought maybe let the kids die in the school bus. You can totally see that Ma Kent taught her son the value of compassion.

they may be implied- and that's what you read into it- but that's not how they were written, which is the issue. you can literally dump every woman character and it's the same movie. Zod quickly adjusted to the 'cacyphony' without ma kent. clark would have also. pa kent taught clark everything- ma was there like a good concerned mother- no decision clark made was based off anything her character said. same with Lois- it was the Priest that convinced him to trust- so he goes and talks to the army, and ASKS for Lois- and what does that get- the S stands for hope. every female part was empty. you can say 'clark really needed Lois to get him to trust' but, this is important, re-imagine it without her and NOTHING changes. wipe her out all together and clark still goes through the same struggle- reflects on what his dad taught him, talks to the priest, goes to the army.... Her character could have been added after the movie was done... 'oh wait- we forgot to write Lois-' ' Ok- no problem, just write her in to all the scenes and have superman rescue her. have the Jor-el ghost tell her about the phantom engine instead of Kal on the ship... then have superman rescue her again....' If a character can be removed or added like that then they really weren't much of a character to start with.

[solid.wii]

they may be implied- and that's what you read into it- but that's not how they were written, which is the issue. you can literally dump every woman character and it's the same movie. Zod quickly adjusted to the 'cacyphony' without ma kent. clark would have also. pa kent taught clark everything- ma was there like a good concerned mother- no decision clark made was based off anything her character said. same with Lois- it was the Priest that convinced him to trust- so he goes and talks to the army, and ASKS for Lois- and what does that get- the S stands for hope. every female part was empty. you can say 'clark really needed Lois to get him to trust' but, this is important, re-imagine it without her and NOTHING changes. wipe her out all together and clark still goes through the same struggle- reflects on what his dad taught him, talks to the priest, goes to the army.... Her character could have been added after the movie was done... 'oh wait- we forgot to write Lois-' ' Ok- no problem, just write her in to all the scenes and have superman rescue her. have the Jor-el ghost tell her about the phantom engine instead of Kal on the ship... then have superman rescue her again....' If a character can be removed or added like that then they really weren't much of a character to start with.

Not everything needs to be written out, sometimes in movies things can be implied or heaven forbid acted out. The biggest hole in your removal of Lois theory is that Superman gave Lois the Kryptonian key for safekeeping since he suspected they would restrain him and keep it for themselves. Without Lois sticking the key into Zod's ship, Jor El would not have been able to free Superman. End of movie there, Zod would have taken Superman's blood and taken over Earth rebuilding Krypton. Superman would have been too weak to do anything about it. See, it was well written, you are simply ignoring the plot detail to strengthen your argument.

Her role was completely critical to the story as it is how he would escape from capture.

[pig iron grenadier]

I've already beaten the issue to death...... :)

[USAgent]

Not everything needs to be written out, sometimes in movies things can be implied or heaven forbid acted out. The biggest hole in your removal of Lois theory is that Superman gave Lois the Kryptonian key for safekeeping since he suspected they would restrain him and keep it for themselves. Without Lois sticking the key into Zod's ship, Jor El would not have been able to free Superman. End of movie there, Zod would have taken Superman's blood and taken over Earth rebuilding Krypton. Superman would have been too weak to do anything about it. See, it was well written, you are simply ignoring the plot detail to strengthen your argument.

Her role was completely critical to the story as it is how he would escape from capture.

if she wasn't there he would have kept the key himself and given it to the prof. himself - and remember, Lois couldn't even get it to work- the professor actually activated it. so again- no Lois- no change. or if you prefer know lois-know change :)

I've already beaten the issue to death...... :)

shush you! it's not even my damn argument anyways- just saying it's a valid point in a good review :) pbbbbbttttt!

[pig iron grenadier]

By the same logic though all you needed for Avengers was Coulson to get the heroes to work together, fury as Shield liaison..or you could scrap shield entirely...Have iron man and Hulk working together in a buddy hero movie to ward off an alien invasion...hell, you could have had it be rick jones instead of coulson....
They could still be the Avengers with just Iron man, Hulk and a Rick Jones to be avenged......The aliens could just be after stark's power source technology....hell, Stark did most everything by himself anyway..........You could have skipped Avengers entirely and just made it another iron man movie where he fends off an alien invasion solo using all his drone armors.... and Pepper could catch him instead of Hulk....
;)

[USAgent]

By the same logic though all you needed for Avengers was Coulson to get the heroes to work together, fury as Shield liaison..or you could scrap shield entirely...Have iron man and Hulk working together in a buddy hero movie to ward off an alien invasion...hell, you could have had it be rick jones instead of coulson....
They could still be the Avengers with just Iron man, Hulk and a Rick Jones to be avenged......The aliens could just be after stark's power source technology....hell, Stark did most everything by himself anyway..........You could have skipped Avengers entirely and just made it another iron man movie where he fends off an alien invasion solo using all his drone armors.... and Pepper could catch him instead of Hulk....
;)

well pepper couldn't catch him without armor- when did he inject her with nano-stuff? but yeah- you could change anything about anything and come up with what you want- but that doesn't change superman's story and that every woman character is treated as an object to rescue/fight rather than a well written person and none did anything to drive the story- if you can't see that you can't see it... if you think lois was strong and powerful and written as the best role model for young girls since debbie does dallas- fantastic. i CAN see the flaws in the movies treatment of women- especially after all this :) - it just doesn't change the fact that i still loved the movie, and i don't think how they wrote/treated women characters was relevant to the story they were telling. So, again- the critic has a valid complaint- i just don't care- vs. you all thinking the complaint is just trying to find ANYTHING to bitch about.

[solid.wii]

if she wasn't there he would have kept the key himself and given it to the prof. himself - and remember, Lois couldn't even get it to work- the professor actually activated it. so again- no Lois- no change. or if you prefer know lois-know change :)

I see you are confusing the phantom generator scene with the capture of Superman scene. When Superman turns himself over to Zod, Lois comes along and he gives her the Krypton Key(important plot point). If he didn't do that it would still be stuck on him when he is shackled into the table after he got weak from the ships radiation. So how could Superman escape without Lois inserting the key into Zods ship to activate Jor El?

The scene you are referring to is in the second act when they are aboard a human aircraft containing the phantom generator. That would not have happened had it not been for Lois "rescuing" Superman by activating Jor El and having it take over Zod's ship.

[pig iron grenadier]

well pepper couldn't catch him without armor- when did he inject her with nano-stuff? but yeah- you could change anything about anything and come up with what you want- but that doesn't change superman's story and that every woman character is treated as an object to rescue/fight rather than a well written person and none did anything to drive the story- if you can't see that you can't see it... if you think lois was strong and powerful and written as the best role model for young girls since debbie does dallas- fantastic. i CAN see the flaws in the movies treatment of women- especially after all this :) - it just doesn't change the fact that i still loved the movie, and i don't think how they wrote/treated women characters was relevant to the story they were telling. So, again- the critic has a valid complaint- i just don't care- vs. you all thinking the complaint is just trying to find ANYTHING to bitch about.


I just don't see how being a Pulitzer prize winning investigative journalist, brave, daring, courageous, smart, great-looking, dedicated, compassionate, warm-hearted woman of integrity is something to think is a negative female role......

[USAgent]

I see you are confusing the phantom generator scene with the capture of Superman scene. When Superman turns himself over to Zod, Lois comes along and he gives her the Krypton Key(important plot point). If he didn't do that it would still be stuck on him when he is shackled into the table after he got weak from the ships radiation. So how could Superman escape without Lois inserting the key into Zods ship to activate Jor El?

The scene you are referring to is in the second act when they are aboard a human aircraft containing the phantom generator. That would not have happened had it not been for Lois "rescuing" Superman by activating Jor El and having it take over Zod's ship.

no- I was definitely talking about the ship in the airplane key scene :)
In the star ship as prisoners is different- Because without Lois he would have had the key himself (..and why was Lois brought aboard? Did they already do the mind reading thing or did Zod read Lois story on the internet and just really liked it so much that he wanted her brought along? That piece falls under the 'plot holes' issue- but I don't mind that stuff at all either- ) Had there been no Lois there, Superman, having the key already on him anyways- would have just done it himself at any point 'without the creepy German scientist noticing- AGAIN- it's a scene that could have been done 100% WITHOUT Lois- she's just there to need a rescue AGAIN.

[USAgent]

I just don't see how being a Pulitzer prize winning investigative journalist, brave, daring, courageous, smart, great-looking, dedicated, compassionate, warm-hearted woman of integrity is something to think is a negative female role......

it's not negative :( But give her SOMETHING, ANYTHING to do that actually matters in the movie and you wouldn't have had the 'women' issue to begin with. But she is treated as an after-thought... she does NOTHING of merit but get rescued

WHICH I'M A-OK WITH BECAUSE IT IS MAN OF STEEL- NOT LOIS AND CLARK!

...but it's a valid complaint and not 'being nit-picky'

[solid.wii]

no- I was definitely talking about the ship in the airplane key scene :)
In the star ship as prisoners is different- Because without Lois he would have had the key himself (..and why was Lois brought aboard? Did they already do the mind reading thing or did Zod read Lois story on the internet and just really liked it so much that he wanted her brought along? That piece falls under the 'plot holes' issue- but I don't mind that stuff at all either- ) Had there been no Lois there, Superman, having the key already on him anyways- would have just done it himself at any point 'without the creepy German scientist noticing- AGAIN- it's a scene that could have been done 100% WITHOUT Lois- she's just there to need a rescue AGAIN.

But Zods ship made Superman WEAK. So how does he do it himself? Is he immune to all that Red sun radiation in your fantasy script?

[USAgent]

Mark Waid sure tore MoS to pieces in his review :(
Looks like, how Avengers brought everyone together (mostly) MoS seems to have a love it/hate it 50/50 toss up with the comic folks...
Seems some people take issue with the wanton destruction and lack of trying to save lives... and surprisingly the Zod killing (which nobody seems to remember happened in Superman II) sheesh

[USAgent]

But Zods ship made Superman WEAK. So how does he do it himself? Is he immune to all that Red sun radiation in your fantasy script?

it's not MY fantasy script- it's simply removing Lois from the equation- He ALREADY has the key on him. Had there been NO Lois he drops it in a magic S shaped slot himself. done.

[solid.wii]

Keaton Batman killed Joker in that movie.

[solid.wii]

Anyone notice that empty pod on the first ship that Superman sent the distress signal? Supposedly another Kryptonian may have been on that ship.

[USAgent]

Anyone notice that empty pod on the first ship that Superman sent the distress signal? Supposedly another Kryptonian may have been on that ship.

Supergirl!!!!
Actually- they could pull a capt.America and have her frozen in the ice somewhere and then dislodged by the ship leaving... :)

Keaton Batman killed Joker in that movie.

All the bad guys seemed to get killed in the burton flicks :( poor Penguin

[solid.wii]

Supergirl!!!!
Actually- they could pull a capt.America and have her frozen in the ice somewhere and then dislodged by the ship leaving... :)


Hehe I suppose so. My brother and I were chuckling at the phallic shaped "pods" when Zod and his crew got sentenced. Then they proceeded to impregnate the giant 3 legged alien ship's orifice. I felt 16 again...

[USAgent]

Hehe I suppose so. My brother and I were chuckling at the phallic shaped "pods" when Zod and his crew got sentenced. Then they proceeded to impregnate the giant 3 legged alien ship's orifice. I felt 16 again...

i read something else somewhere that they mentioned everything Kryptonian looking like either a penis or vagina. :) I guess if your a super advanced race of genetic engineered beings you need to get it where you can :)

[pig iron grenadier]

i do think Superman's pod and his key will set up Braniac somehow...


also the warp ship had those Braniac tendrils on it....

[JokerFC]

Keaton Batman killed Joker in that movie.

he did and he didn't.....he fired the batrope around his leg so he wouldn't escape......Joker wouldn't let go of the rope ladder from the helicopter so he pulled the gargoyle loose and plunged to his death....God I love that movie.

its like Ras Al Ghul in Batman Begins......he made the choice not to save him....

yeah and critics are conveniently forgetting Supes iced all 3 of Zods crew in 1982......its coming up all the time in reviews.

even so its not like Snyder had him casually snap Zods neck.....it was Zod or the innocent family.....then he went crazy after he did it.there was no option whatsoever for Supes with Zod in MOS........

[JokerFC]

on a separate note it seems that MOS is on course to take in at least 100 million for its opening weekend.good to hear.it deserves to do well IMO.

[Cobra80]

Just took my son to watch MOS tonight. AWESOME movie!!!! My Favorite version of Superman on the big screen. So happy the sequel has been given the green light.

After the movie my son wanted a General Zod figure so it was off to Meijer and I bought him a Zod and Superman figure.

Anyone notice the cool easter egg during the fight scene?

Also, Elliot from Law and Order is now my choice for Duke in Gi Joe. When I heard him talking during MOS I closed my eyes and he reminds me of Duke from Sunbow glory days.

[Cobra80]

Just got back from seeing it and all I can say is "damn". Look out Marvel daddy is home

Yes, this movie finally brought Superman back to top of the Superhero chain. I was very happy with Henry Cavill performance

[46 Zone]

Just saw it. Awesome movie!!! Very well done. Why can't Hasbro take a clue from this movie and learn how to tell a story?

Anyway, this is an instant classic. I haven't read the whole thread, but I'll say look for the easter eggs on the satellite and tanker truck.

[RandomViper117]

I've already beaten the issue to death...... :)

I love your sig.

Lois was one of my favorite things about the movie. She got a higher kill count that Supes or the military in terms of evil aliens. And I could actually believe she was a pulitzer prize winning journalist. Didn't buy that Bosworth was at all, and Kidder I could only believe was the movie was called superman.

[JokerFC]

yeah I seen the logo on the truck that dropped Clark off first.....then in the fight scene.

[Cobra80]

Well since lots of people are discussing scenes from the movie did anyone notice the fuel tanker truck towards the end of the movie????????

SPOLIER
SPOILER
SPOILER









The name on the side of the truck said LEXCORP. I thought that was pretty cool. Nice little seed they planted their for future Superman movies.

[Jmacq1]

it's not MY fantasy script- it's simply removing Lois from the equation- He ALREADY has the key on him. Had there been NO Lois he drops it in a magic S shaped slot himself. done.

While he's strapped to a table in a completely separate room?

I don't think Superman had telekinesis in this movie, but I could be wrong.

[Jmacq1]

What do you guys make of David Goyer's comments about MoS setting up the Justice League by making Superman the first public super hero, thus allowing other super powered beings to come forward. And would WB want to incorporate Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy or have it stand on it's own and reboot Batman?

Here's his comment:
“It is our intention that, in success, [Man of Steel] would be the zero issue and from this point onward, possible films could expand into a shared universe. In our world, the Man of Steel world, Zack has gone on record saying that we’re implying there are other superheroes in this world. But I don’t know that they’ve come forward yet. The idea is that Superman is the first one. There might be people helping people, but not in costumes, and that Superman comes forward and announces himself to the world. In him announcing himself, he’s the one that changes things.”

They said quite some time ago that Batman would be rebooted for a JLA-universe. Any of the rumors to the contrary (IE that Joseph Gordon-Levitt was going to be Batman in JLA) were generally created by fans and like so many rumors glommed onto by websites desperate for a "Scoop."

TDK Batman doesn't remotely work in a JLA world. As much as I enjoy the Dark Knight trilogy (which is to say a ton), the Batman presented in that trilogy is one of the "Weakest" incarnations of Batman ever seen.

[USAgent]

While he's strapped to a table in a completely separate room?

I don't think Superman had telekinesis in this movie, but I could be wrong.

wow- they gave lois something to do... hold this key that i have on me. i'm sorry but thats straight up- "let's add lois to the movie" bs right there. Have SuperMan slip her the key so she can rescue him instead of having him just do it himself in the ship. Brilliant re-write. strap Superman to the table and don't have a magic 'lock' nearby- yup, you guys are right- best role ever for a woman in a movie. definitely showed off her Pulitzer prize winning no-nonsense tough nosed girl reporter character right there. i think lex was awesome in MoS as well.

[Jmacq1]

wow- they gave lois something to do... hold this key that i have on me. i'm sorry but thats straight up- "let's add lois to the movie" bs right there. Have SuperMan slip her the key so she can rescue him instead of having him just do it himself in the ship. Brilliant re-write. strap Superman to the table and don't have a magic 'lock' nearby- yup, you guys are right- best role ever for a woman in a movie. definitely showed off her Pulitzer prize winning no-nonsense tough nosed girl reporter character right there. i think lex was awesome in MoS as well.

*shrugs* I didn't write the movie. Just pointed out the hole in you argument.

What do you think they could/should have done to make Lois a "Stronger" character in the context of the movie?

[USAgent]

*shrugs* I didn't write the movie. Just pointed out the hole in you argument.

What do you think they could/should have done to make Lois a "Stronger" character in the context of the movie?

that's tough, because this really is a more physical superman than they've ever put on film- i think what they did with Lois and Faora and the intern and the Capt and Ma... (i think that's it) we're all perfect for what MoS is vs. it being Smallville or Lois and Clark. Personally, i wouldn't change a single thing- other than haveing people be running for their lives more and superman making more of an effort to save folks while also fighting the bad guys... But in the context of the 'female roles' With this movie i really don't think there was time to give lois or the others more to do. I have no complaints with the female charcters as they relate to MoS at all- the argument is simply that i don't think a critic taking note of the one dimensional roles the woman recievd in MoS is 'nit-picky' and that it's a valid critisim. to change the roles of lois or any of the others would change what MoS was about- and i wouldn't want to do that because i think the movie was awesome. :)

[BEAM]

Saw it ... love it. Cavill makes a great Superman (except for the protruding chest hair - couldn't the hair and make up trim that down a bit.) I love Michael Shannon in anything and he was a great Zod. Even Russell Crowe was fantastic. I felt like he's been mailing in his performances lately but he put a lot of work into this. Who knew Jor-El was such a fighter.

Lois was useless in the second half but Goyer made sure to set her up as a no-nonsense, tenacious journalist from the start. It's the heavy CGI action that forced her to the background. Better than being the damsel in distress that Margot Kidder always became.

And there wasn't much room or reason to expand her character. Zod's motivation was her motivation. She was breed a warrior and kicked ass.

I don't get the argument that Superman should have saved more people. Either he stop the World Engine or he flies around saving people. You can't have it both way. Zod was terraforming the planet, it's best to stop the machine and his army than save people.

Now if you want to get into his wanton disregard of property when battling in Smallville and his final fight with Zod, then one could have a point. However I see Superman in this movie as a true rookie. He just learned who he is and what he can do and within days he's confronted by a global threat. That's a pretty tall order for your figurative first day on the job. He hasn't quite gotten the hang of taking the battle to a more remote place. Plus, a few times his fights were personal and he acted out of anger and rage, a combination that doesn't make one clear headed.

The destruction certainly needs to be addressed in the sequel. And whoever brought up introducing Lex as the one to point out Supes' dangers and have him be the savior to rebuild Metropolis is a good idea.

[BEAM]

Oh and anyone else's eyebrow raise a little when Supes told the General he's been living on the planet for 33 years? A little heavy handed with the Jesus/savior metaphor there, huh?

[JokerFC]

well any fears about the box office of MOS will have been calmed by its opening weekend.including Thursday night it has a 113 Mill opening weekend.

that's great news....hopefully WB/DC will start giving some stuff the greenlight soon.I know they have already gave the sequel the go ahead but heres hoping we get some more news soon.

as for Lois....I thought Amy Adams did really well and it was a great foundation for the character it felt like Lois to me.......I have always hated Kidder as Lois and barely remember the Bosworth version.....

[BEAM]

Amy Adams is the better of the three. Ever see The Master? She plays all nice nice in public but behind the scenes with Phillip Seymore Hoffman, she's got an edge to her. SHe may not look like Lois but she can capture the attitude.

[Jmacq1]

Oh and anyone else's eyebrow raise a little when Supes told the General he's been living on the planet for 33 years? A little heavy handed with the Jesus/savior metaphor there, huh?

Not to mention the blatant "On the Cross" pose he takes after Jor-El tells him "You can save them all" just before he leaves Zod's ship. That was the one shot in the movie that took me out of the film.

Then I find out that WB has actually been directly marketing Man of Steel to church groups...yeah.

[BEAM]

Yeah, that didn't jar me as much as the 33 years for some reason. I'll take special note of that next viewing.

I don't recall the Donner movies playing into the messiah metaphors. But it seems like it started with Singer's Superman Returns (doesn't he strike a crucifix pose too?) and was more heavy handed in Man of Steel.

Interesting tidbit on the church marketing.

[Zarana]

Not to mention the blatant "On the Cross" pose he takes after Jor-El tells him "You can save them all" just before he leaves Zod's ship. That was the one shot in the movie that took me out of the film.

Then I find out that WB has actually been directly marketing Man of Steel to church groups...yeah.

I laughed out loud at that. It made the narnia movies look subtle.

[RolandofGilead]

Yeah, that didn't jar me as much as the 33 years for some reason. I'll take special note of that next viewing.

I don't recall the Donner movies playing into the messiah metaphors. But it seems like it started with Singer's Superman Returns (doesn't he strike a crucifix pose too?) and was more heavy handed in Man of Steel.

Interesting tidbit on the church marketing.

It's been like this since the late 70's.

I believe one of the original previews for Superman the Movie was almost a complete requote of John 3:16. The entire promo was linking Jor-El giving the earth his son. This is nothing new.

[Gideon75]

Both creators of Superman based him on Biblical scriptures of the Jewish messiah and Moses. The name Jor El means "God will uplift." The name Kal El means "voice of God." Nothing new at all here!

[BEAM]

Yes, the Superman/Jesus parallel is nothing new.

But specifically in cinema did Richard Donner evoke any overt Christian symbolism like what Snyder/Nolan/Goyer have presented? It just seems so blatant in MoS and even Superman Returns. If it was in Superman The Movie or Superman II, I don't recall it. RoG gave some insight to the past but it just seemed more upfront in the newest movie.

[pig iron grenadier]

The 33 years bit was Over the top..the posing and so forth would be symbolic, but the 33 is a bit bordering on blasphemy honestly. Not only that people that hate Judea-Christianity would likely be offended as well.......that line is basically a lose/lose. IMO.

[RolandofGilead]

I can't view them at work, but there was a trailer for Superman the Movie that was completely overt about painting Kal-El as the savior sent by Jor-El to save the earth. Almost to the point that it bordered on blasphemy.

The entire trailer included voice over by Marlon Brando saying that he gives the people his only son.

What we saw in Man of Steel was thematic, but not blatant.

[Gideon75]

Yes, the Superman/Jesus parallel is nothing new.

But specifically in cinema did Richard Donner evoke any overt Christian symbolism like what Snyder/Nolan/Goyer have presented? It just seems so blatant in MoS and even Superman Returns. If it was in Superman The Movie or Superman II, I don't recall it. RoG gave some insight to the past but it just seemed more upfront in the newest movie.

Here is the trailer for the 1978 movie with the John 3:16 reference:

Superman The Movie trailer - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twyYIPhSa3U)

[Zarana]

I can't view them at work, but there was a trailer for Superman the Movie that was completely overt about painting Kal-El as the savior sent by Jor-El to save the earth. Almost to the point that it bordered on blasphemy.

The entire trailer included voice over by Marlon Brando saying that he gives the people his only son.

What we saw in Man of Steel was thematic, but not blatant.

He sat in a church framed with a giant stained glass window of christ with the light shining in.

How could there be anything more blatant?

[RolandofGilead]

Well he wasn't standing on it was he? :D

[solid.wii]

Baptism.
http://i40.tinypic.com/2zq90rl.jpg


By fire?
http://i43.tinypic.com/2v83ktc.jpg

[Gideon75]

He sat in a church framed with a giant stained glass window of christ with the light shining in.

How could there be anything more blatant?

I fail to see the controversy here. This aspect has always been apart of the Superman mythos. Removing it would be equivalent of removing the same metaphors from the Matrix trilogy.

[BEAM]

That trailer reminds me that John Williams provided the soundtrack to my youth. Superman, E.T., Star Wars, Raiders of the Lost Ark.

[Zarana]

I fail to see the controversy here. This aspect has always been apart of the Superman mythos. Removing it would be equivalent of removing the same metaphors from the Matrix trilogy.

I didn't say it was controversial, just very unsubtle, like the matrix or a Creed music video.

[pig iron grenadier]

I didn't say it was controversial, just very unsubtle, like the matrix or a Creed music video.

That's more my issue.....no controversy..just odd they chose to make it blatant rather than subtle.

But I think Creed is another thing entirely.

[Fred Broca]

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr03/2013/6/17/15/enhanced-buzz-21459-1371498261-20.jpg

What Would Man of Steel's Destruction Cost?

http://m.ign.com/articles/2013/06/18/what-would-man-of-steels-destruction-cost

Zod versus Superman: Metropolis' citizens pay the price.

June 17, 2013
by Scott Collura

There's been much talk the past few days about the devastation wrought during the final act of Man of Steel. When General Zod and his team of Kryptonian fanatics "unleash the World Engine," bad, bad stuff starts happening in Metropolis. And then Superman and Zod face off in a battle of the titans that is hugely destructive to Kal-El's soon-to-be adopted city.

Putting aside the troubling aspects of that final fight for the moment -- why didn't Superman lure Zod away from the city? Why don't we ever see him, you know, saving someone? -- the question comes up of how much damage was done to Metropolis once the dust had settled in Man of Steel. And of course, the Internet has already heard this call, and it has responded.

Scientist and "disaster expert" Charles Watson and his Watson Technical Consulting outfit have attempted to answer the question both in terms of the human toll Metropolis paid as well as the financial cost. "They ran analyses of the World Engine ground zero in Central Manhattan and central Chicago," according to Buzzfeed, "finding that the major damage would be a mile in diameter."

The WTC estimates that in the days after the attack, 129,000 people would be confirmed killed, nearly a million would be injured, and over a quarter of a million would still be missing. The impact “seemed to be similar to an air burst from a 20kt nuclear explosion in terms of shock effects, but without the radiation or thermal effects.”

Additionally, some $700 billion in physical damage would be done to the city. Cleanup, economic impact, and other costs would eventually bring that number into the trillions of dollars. (To give that number some real-world context, one of the worst events in U.S. history -- the 9/11 attacks -- cost $55 billion.)
As for the cost, if any, to Superman's credibility in his debut performance as Earth's protector… well, I guess they're saving that for the sequel.

[RandomViper117]

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr03/2013/6/17/15/enhanced-buzz-21459-1371498261-20.jpg

What Would Man of Steel's Destruction Cost?

What Would Man of Steel's Destruction Cost? - IGN (http://m.ign.com/articles/2013/06/18/what-would-man-of-steels-destruction-cost)

Zod versus Superman: Metropolis' citizens pay the price.

June 17, 2013
by Scott Collura

There's been much talk the past few days about the devastation wrought during the final act of Man of Steel. When General Zod and his team of Kryptonian fanatics "unleash the World Engine," bad, bad stuff starts happening in Metropolis. And then Superman and Zod face off in a battle of the titans that is hugely destructive to Kal-El's soon-to-be adopted city.

Putting aside the troubling aspects of that final fight for the moment -- why didn't Superman lure Zod away from the city? Why don't we ever see him, you know, saving someone? -- the question comes up of how much damage was done to Metropolis once the dust had settled in Man of Steel. And of course, the Internet has already heard this call, and it has responded.

Scientist and "disaster expert" Charles Watson and his Watson Technical Consulting outfit have attempted to answer the question both in terms of the human toll Metropolis paid as well as the financial cost. "They ran analyses of the World Engine ground zero in Central Manhattan and central Chicago," according to Buzzfeed, "finding that the major damage would be a mile in diameter."

The WTC estimates that in the days after the attack, 129,000 people would be confirmed killed, nearly a million would be injured, and over a quarter of a million would still be missing. The impact “seemed to be similar to an air burst from a 20kt nuclear explosion in terms of shock effects, but without the radiation or thermal effects.”

Additionally, some $700 billion in physical damage would be done to the city. Cleanup, economic impact, and other costs would eventually bring that number into the trillions of dollars. (To give that number some real-world context, one of the worst events in U.S. history -- the 9/11 attacks -- cost $55 billion.)
As for the cost, if any, to Superman's credibility in his debut performance as Earth's protector… well, I guess they're saving that for the sequel.

But consider what would have happened had Superman done nothing.

We would have around 7 billion confirmed dead and over 900 trillion in damages.

Sure it was a alot of damage, but watching Justice League and the Superman animated series. That was a weekly thing for Metropolis. It's how Lex Luthor ended up owning nearly the entire city, he bankrolled all the repairs.


As to the Christian symbolism... it doesn't stop at just the 33 years old and Christ pose in space.
1. He has a unique birth.
2. He's earthly father is a tradesmen who dies before he starts his mission
3. He surrenders to his enemies to save man
4. The villain was a high ranking leader who rebelled and was cast down into the abyss with a third(give or take) of the soldiers.
5. We have Jor-El the Father, Kal-El the Son, and Holo Jor-El the Holy Ghost.

Probably more in there I haven't caught yet. And as a Christian I don't see anything blasphemous or controversial about it.