How many fairly "serious" collectors do you think there are in the world?

[KuuKuuSon]

I was just curious about people's opinion of how many semi serious G.I. Joe 3 & 3/4" - 4" collectors are out there in the world. By that I mean people who ready to buy some, if not, all of the newest waves around their release time and/or fairly regularly track down vintage items. I would also include the type of person who visits G.I. Joe specific forums online 3-4 times a week.

I know this is a little vauge and I don't want to have a conversation of "what constitutes a fan" but just how many "semi regular" collectors you think are out there in the world. I'll sit this out there for a little while and post my opinions later.

***Edit: yes, I did indeed mean "Less Than" 5000 in the first option. If the mods could fix that not to skew results, that would be swell. Sorry, long day at work... Thanks***

[Viperscout 7]

I voted 10,000 to 15,000 but it really is hard to say
I wonder what a normal figures production run is?
then subtract army builders buying multiple figures then add collectors out of the country that can't buy them at retail.
and everybody is always looking for exclusives.
then there are those that quit then come back then quit again etc...
and then there are those like me on a very tight budget that spend maybe $100 a year or less
really how can anyone get within 1000 of the actual number
its like trying to count jellybeans in a jar except the jar has a hole in the bottom and is constantly getting refilled

[General Hawk]

I assume you meant "less than" 5,000 for the first selection. That's what I chose.

[CobraOfficer999]

Maybe less than 5K.

[brcthrift]

Fairly certain I am the only collector in Baton rouge, a town with a metro population of close to a million.

I say this because when I found my Ren SS at TRU, there were two of them. I bought one, and left the other sitting first on the peg, and it sat un-touched for three weeks.

If Joe Collector's are 1 in a million it would seem there are about 7000 collectors.

[RolandofGilead]

There can be only one, and his name is Gyre-Viper.

The rest of us aren't even close and so can't be taken seriously.

[Zarana]

I never smile buying joes. It's a serios endeavor.

[ozzie92]

Hmmm...very TOUGH question to give an educated guess. If I read it correctly, there are over 20,000 Hisstank.com members...but I am the only one of my family/friends/acquaintenances that collect Joes. Based on the hisstank.com membership--I'll have to assume half the population doesn't know it exists or have access--I'll go with approx. 50,000. And yes, between 50-75 K. You can't forget the international market! Those people still cling to their Michael Jackson paraphanelia like it's magical.

All I know is that you are talking to one Joe fan who knows enough to have purchased your Joe figure/vehicle guide! Can't wait for the next one (if this is in some small way an attempt to gauge serious interest)... ;)

[fireflyguy]

I think I was over the actual retail price. It seems like a lot, but it's so hard I say. Maybe that should be a question on the 2020 census! How many people are members of the tank? I think that might be a good estimation. Of course, not all GI Joe fans are on the Hisstank and not everyone on the Hisstank are hardcore fans. It seems like there are a lit of fans that are buying up all the stuff, but it's probably the same 1000 people buying over and over again. how many people go to con each year?

[sharky]

One good way to tell is what was the attendance for this past Joecon. I'd say that is a very bare minimum as I'm sure plenty of serious collectors simply didn't go for one reason or another.

There are about 2300 people on the tank with 100 or more posts. But that is probably a very low as well since there are plenty of serious collectors that choose not to post any comments. Total membership is around 20,000, so maybe 10,000 are serious? Just a wild guess.

[Lody]

They are far and few between here on this site. This is based on the level of ignorance people have of GI Joe pre-2007. When I say ignorance I mean that most people lack alot of basic knowlegde of the line's beginings and nuances during the 1982-1994 run. This is not a dig at anyone.

[CrimsonGuard101]

The world may never know!

[Crimson Rage]

I don't even consider myself a "serious collector", just a 'fan'.

[Brcall]

There are 13,500, because that's the magic number in the Joe-verse.

[CrimsonGuard101]

There are 13,500, because that's the magic number in the Joe-verse.

or 250...since a lot of figures sell for that...like the Black Retaliation CC or other prototypes from china lol...

[Brcall]

By the way, I'm not a toy collector, my 7 year old son is the toy collector... *wink wink*

[JoeMama]

tough to gauge based on retail sales... too many speculative 'investors' (scaplers / resellers / insert definition here) to use that as a basis...
I would think the best way to gauge is to perhaps market a specialty figure as an internet only non-exclusive figure (so you don't eliminate ANY potential markets), without limits, that is not an army builder, and that speculators would not buy multiples of to resell. Perhaps a club exclusive single-carded 'Muskrat' would do the trick.
Than, you just count the buys. If it is not limited to one site, or have a limited production run, you'd get the real fans.
If it is available at retail, you would dirty the numbers with casual mom's buying for someone who would not be a collector.
This of course would be impossible.
So probably 5k-10k hardcore fans.
That's a fair assessment.

[cmderinchief]

Less than 5K

[This I Command!]

I would say it's maybe in 5-10k range. I am often surprised when I go to a comic or toy show and I meet people who are obviously into Joe (buying toys, wearing shirts, have cobra tattoos, etc.), but then I'll ask them if they go to joecon or forums or anything, and I'll get that blank stare like they don't know that stuff exists. I do know that if there was seriously less than 5000 of us, there is no way the line would continue at retail, because despite whatever Hasbro may think I firmly believe this line is primarily sustained by collectors.

[CrimsonGuard101]

I would say it's maybe in 5-10k range. I am often surprised when I go to a comic or toy show and I meet people who are obviously into Joe (buying toys, wearing shirts, have cobra tattoos, etc.), but then I'll ask them if they go to joecon or forums or anything, and I'll get that blank stare like they don't know that stuff exists. I do know that if there was seriously less than 5000 of us, there is no way the line would continue at retail, because despite whatever Hasbro may think I firmly believe this line is primarily sustained by collectors.

I think so too. Only those of us that were built into JOe with the "collect them all!" message on the back of the card along with the "more team members coming soon!" silhouettes...that was some strong propaganda and brand building there...it still in me to collect them all lol...

[Steevy Maximus]

I do believe there are just about 10,000 serious collectors in the GI Joe brand, the problem is really, it is a FRAGMENTED 10K.

You have Vintage purists, Modern purists, "little bit of everything" guys, Ninja guys, No-Ninja guys, New sculpt era fans, fans who hate anything to do with new sculpt, etc. And that doesn't even start to factor the remaining 12" collectors.

[ShadowNinja]

Well how serious can you be about toys? I dont mean to be a jerk about it but if your really that serious into this and its your life then maybe you should get out more. Go to bar, a movie, meet a girl (or guy if thats your preference).

[CrimsonGuard101]

Well how serious can you be about toys? I dont mean to be a jerk about it but if your really that serious into this and its your life then maybe you should get out more. Go to bar, a movie, meet a girl (or guy if thats your preference).

Why? If I or someone else enjoys this hobby more then bars, boring crappy movies these days...or whiney women that just want all my money, make me have kids and take everything I own in a divorce anyway? I would rather spend it on stuff I WANT lol...no I dont like your advice...not one little bit (not to sound like a jerk ;) my life is fine without all of that jazz and excess baggage...

[ShadowNinja]

Not all movies are bad and not all women are like that. maybe your looking in the wrong spot.......

[BvH]

I think so too. Only those of us that were built into JOe with the "collect them all!" message on the back of the card along with the "more team members coming soon!" silhouettes...that was some strong propaganda and brand building there...it still in me to collect them all lol...

Are we talking about GI Joe or Pokemon? :D

[CrimsonGuard101]

Are we talking about GI Joe or Pokemon? :D

Not all movies are bad and not all women are like that. maybe your looking in the wrong spot.......

Funny...lemme guess you found one when you you were in junior high school, went to the prom together and have been happily married every since with 12 rugrats to feed? buncha hogwash...god mad women to soley torment men....and I am not one bit tempted anymore...and they aint getting a dime form me lol as a result...unless I explicitly allow it...but Joes come first...always...and what movies are you referring? ever since 1989 passed...movies have been garbage...

Are we talking about GI Joe or Pokemon? :D

Well duh! GI JOE! it came first :0

[skinny]

where are you going?
"not your world stranger, goodbye stranger"

so lets do some numbers here with pictures oooh!

con sets sold out and were one per member correct?
now 12 inch sets I think are still available? thats about 1100

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m144/blowtorch84/serious%20data/Screenshot52012-07-11at43521PM.jpg
next slide please:
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m144/blowtorch84/serious%20data/Screenshot42012-07-11at42424PM.jpg

A real american hero comic, the most DIEHARD fans still pick this up imho since it gets a lot of flack BUT there are at least two covers every month so lets knock that number in half.

next:
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m144/blowtorch84/serious%20data/Screenshot32012-07-11at42358PM.jpg

GIJOE main title, not a well received title but it is the main one, again knock in half for the multiple covers

and then we have:
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m144/blowtorch84/serious%20data/Screenshot1at42446PM.jpg
Cobra "acclaimed" title poor readership variant covers divide number in two.
and finally:

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m144/blowtorch84/serious%20data/Screenshot22012-07-11at42310PM.jpg

HISSTANK call it what you will but it is probably the most visited site for Joe this is the total number of people in the last three days who have posted/visited the site and logged in. Which is a key element because not everybody logs in everyday now do they?
add oh 20 percent to that number?

now take an average.
1100 con sets between the two groups
4400 readers of ARAH a month
4700 readers of the main title
4050 readers of Cobra a month
2700 people on the tank in a week

so thats roughly 3400 of course without real solid numbers hmm where is that plus or minus three percent?
it is not actual factual data. too many mitigating factors, not everyone signs in, not everyone buys two copies of each comic not everyone bought just one con set etc.

[ChicagoScott]

I put the number of collectors around 20,000.
The number of serious collectors around 2,000, which seems to be about the membership of the club.

[ChicagoScott]

The comic numbers can be misleading because it only shows the number sold to distributors. It does not include digital sales, IDW direct to retail sales, IDW direct to consumer sales or people who wait for the trades.

[skinny]

The comic numbers can be misleading because it only shows the number sold to distributors. It does not include digital sales, IDW direct to retail sales, IDW direct to consumer sales or people who wait for the trades.
you are correct they are for preorders and culled from this site:
ICv2 - Top 300 Comics Actual--June 2012 (http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/23332.html)
as I said there are a lot of extra factors but so far these are the only real numbers anyone has provided.
btw "true" fans don't wait for the trades they have to get their comics every wednesday to get their "fix" (insert smiley)

[gijoeforlife]

Well how serious can you be about toys? I dont mean to be a jerk about it but if your really that serious into this and its your life then maybe you should get out more. Go to bar, a movie, meet a girl (or guy if thats your preference).

For me joes are an escape from the stresses of life. I'm a much calmer person, I'm not so high strung, when I have joes in my life. I'm a very aggressive person and when I started collecting joes I mellowed out a lot. But with that said, just because I live, breath, and sleep joes, that doesn't mean I can go hang out with people and have a girl, I do all of that while being a hardcore joe collector

[ShadowNinja]

Well I apologize if I came off as a jerk. A lot of times though on here and everywhere else there is a lot of of those that seem to think joes are the end all and be all of life and fail to notice that a lot of society could care less and think they are the biggest looser besides sandusky.

[Ripper]

I was just curious about people's opinion of how many semi serious G.I. Joe 3 & 3/4" - 4" collectors are out there in the world. By that I mean people who ready to buy some, if not, all of the newest waves around their release time and/or fairly regularly track down vintage items. I would also include the type of person who visits G.I. Joe specific forums online 3-4 times a week.

I know this is a little vauge and I don't want to have a conversation of "what constitutes a fan" but just how many "semi regular" collectors you think are out there in the world. I'll sit this out there for a little while and post my opinions later.

***Edit: yes, I did indeed mean "Less Than" 5000 in the first option. If the mods could fix that not to skew results, that would be swell. Sorry, long day at work... Thanks***

I used to be involved in selling Collectable items and am a collector. The reality is that collectors only account for less than 10% of the toy market industry. Customizers included in that number. The rest of the toy market is made up of children whom scream for the next new thing that they saw on TV. Most of the toys purchased are for children by Parents, Grandparents and relatives. We collectors are a small but proud group. I honestly can't vote for a specific value, but lets go with a 10% average market share of toy sales is from the collectors.

[jogunwarrior]

Well how serious can you be about toys? I dont mean to be a jerk about it but if your really that serious into this and its your life then maybe you should get out more. Go to bar, a movie, meet a girl (or guy if thats your preference).

I'm happily married with two great kids, I enjoy going out with friends, and I love going to the movies. I also consider myself a serious collector, though not serious to the point where I don't have fun.

And I don't think you came off as a jerk.

[gijoeforlife]

Well I apologize if I came off as a jerk. A lot of times though on here and everywhere else there is a lot of of those that seem to think joes are the end all and be all of life and fail to notice that a lot of society could care less and think they are the biggest looser besides sandusky.

No, you didn't come off as a jerk at all. I just wanted to share my opinion :)

[jogunwarrior]

I put the number of collectors around 20,000.
The number of serious collectors around 2,000, which seems to be about the membership of the club.

This makes me wonder how many of us that would consider ourselves serious collectors are not part of the club.

[Raw Dog]

I think there are more than 100,000.

Without checking, this site alone has more than 20,000. I imagine not everyone that visits a site like this registers, and there are several sites like this out there. Plus, there are a lot of people out there world wide, so I think my guesstimation is pretty right on. Of course, I could be wrong.

[SonOfMindbender]

What does it take to be a serious Joe collector?

[Raw Dog]

Lack of a sense of humor.

[Jmacq1]

I used to be involved in selling Collectable items and am a collector. The reality is that collectors only account for less than 10% of the toy market industry. Customizers included in that number. The rest of the toy market is made up of children whom scream for the next new thing that they saw on TV. Most of the toys purchased are for children by Parents, Grandparents and relatives. We collectors are a small but proud group. I honestly can't vote for a specific value, but lets go with a 10% average market share of toy sales is from the collectors.

"The toy market industry" is a very loaded term though. Depending on how you're using it, it includes ALL toys: Board games, dolls, pre-school toys, role-play/action items (Nerf, etc...), action figures, toy cars, and possibly even video games (some people consider them toys, others don't).

It's very easy to believe that collectors only make up 10 percent of the toy market as a whole. But I would wager collectors make up a much larger percentage if you break it down solely to the "action figure" segment of the toy market.

[Jmacq1]

I think there are more than 100,000.

Without checking, this site alone has more than 20,000. I imagine not everyone that visits a site like this registers, and there are several sites like this out there. Plus, there are a lot of people out there world wide, so I think my guesstimation is pretty right on. Of course, I could be wrong.

Don't forget, a lot of folks are registered and active across multiple sites. There's a lot of overlap.

[Raw Dog]

Don't forget, a lot of folks are registered and active across multiple sites. There's a lot of overlap.

Yeah. I thought of that, but I also figured that each site had site specific users that didn't cross pollinate. I also figured that each site's registered users represented a minority of that site's actual traffic meaning that most people who checked that site for Joe news didn't bother to register.

[Dem_Yoe'z!]

I think it depends on what you consider "serious". If that means having at least 500 ME and/or O-ring figures, my guess would be 15-20K globally.

[Headman]

I'm not a very serious collector, but I've got a shit ton of Joes and buy new stuff all the time.

[Dem_Yoe'z!]

I'm not a very serious collector, but I've got a shit ton of Joes and buy new stuff all the time.

Anyone with a Headman edition My Little Pony as an avatar has got to be a serious collector!

[minstrelboy]

I don't think there's really any way to know. I assume I'm pretty serious. I mean, GI Joe is really the only hobby I actively pursue. But then I began to wonder how a hobby can turn into an all-consuming obsession. I've had to step down my purchases and thin out my collection over the last year.

But GI Joe will always be in my life in some form, so I again, I assume I'm pretty serious. Maybe it's time to say it with a tattoo.

[jogunwarrior]

What does it take to be a serious Joe collector?

Virginity

[Bleak5170]

One good way to tell is what was the attendance for this past Joecon. I'd say that is a very bare minimum as I'm sure plenty of serious collectors simply didn't go for one reason or another.


I don't know how accurate that would really be though. Our last Comic-Con was a huge success, (both days sold out), but I can guarantee you that probably close to 75% of the attendees don't collect comic books. Heck it could even be more. I know several people who went and not a single one of them reads comics.

I don't know if even Hisstank members would be accurate either. Heck I'm here and I don't collect Joe figures. Plus half those accounts are probably dead.

[sharky]

I don't know how accurate that would really be though. Our last Comic-Con was a huge success, (both days sold out), but I can guarantee you that probably close to 75% of the attendees don't collect comic books. Heck it could even be more. I know several people who went and not a single one of them reads comics.

I don't know if even Hisstank members would be accurate either. Heck I'm here and I don't collect Joe figures. Plus half those accounts are probably dead.
I thought we were talking about toy collectors, not comics. I don't buy any comics and I almost have a complete 25th Joe collection. I have almost all the POC/30th/Renegades figures as well.

I think there are more people collecting toys than comics is all I'm saying.

[CrimsonGuard101]

I thought we were talking about toy collectors, not comics. I don't buy any comics and I almost have a complete 25th Joe collection. I have almost all the POC/30th/Renegades figures as well.

I think there are more people collecting toys than comics is all I'm saying.

I agree, but Loan Star Comics (comic store in my area) has stayed open for a long long time and they have a lot of locations lol...so there must be a lot of comic book buyers compared to joe collectors...since we dont get our own store for Joes and retail wont stock em for us in a similar quantity :(

[SteelersMobat]

I'm going to guess there might be quite a few serious Joe collectors that are mildly reclusive when it comes shedding the light of day on their hobby.

[Bleak5170]

I thought we were talking about toy collectors, not comics. I don't buy any comics and I almost have a complete 25th Joe collection. I have almost all the POC/30th/Renegades figures as well.

I think there are more people collecting toys than comics is all I'm saying.

All I meant is that convention numbers probably aren't the most accurate way to guesstimate.

[skinny]

By that I mean people who ready to buy some, if not, all of the newest waves around their release time and/or fairly regularly track down vintage items. I would also include the type of person who visits G.I. Joe specific forums online 3-4 times a week.


very hard to nail down using this criteria.(not criticizing the poll at all)
without hard facts (which Hasbro would never give to us) it is all conjecture.

the criteria are: toy sales
cant nail that down by even using Hasbros numbers because you have to factor out the kids.
Hasbro won't say how many SDCC exclusives there were last year so you can't use that data.
Con attendance certainly factors in but we are talking semi-serious collectors and we are (according to the poll) not looking for hardcore collectors. Con is made up of largely hardcore collectors.

second criteria:
board visits.
this you could nail down by using the method I did but it would take a lot of work.
you would have to create a spreadsheet and eliminate duplicate IDs over about 8 sites. Yojoe, Terrordrome, HT, Joecustoms, Joedios, Joesightings, Joehio, the Coil, etc.
You also (according to the criteria) have to weed out any 12 inch collectors who focus only on 12 inch.

So it is a difficult task, we have been asked to do, it would be easier to figure out the number of hardcore collectors.

I was figuring out how many hardcore collectors in my other post and not even realizing it, so it would have to be higher than the 3400 I came up with, but how much higher?

[KuuKuuSon]

It's been an interesting conversation so far. I'll be honest, I thought people would thought the poll would indicate that people thought there was 20,000-50,000 (somewhere around there). In a shameful way, I'm glad I was wrong.

I thought about this a couple of weeks ago and guessed to myself 10-15K. I since brought it up here and there at con to all facets of the convention and received the round about number of 8,000. Please keep in mind that this is not a Hasbro or Club answer. If anything, it's a "I got bored and wrote a book on G.I. Joes, I hope I know something about them by now" answer. Or maybe all of this is just a conversation piece for me to mention my book (see banner below) or to artificially inflate my ego. Ok, I'll compromise and say bored at work...

Reading others posts, I think if I asked the question again, I might adjust the question by asking how many people make G.I. Joe an active part of their lives. That's why I added check the boards almost every day. Whatever the number is, I unfortunately think it's very small and have began to wonder how to make the numbers grow.

Some points to adjust from previous posts:

1. The club allowed for more than one sale of the convention set. I helped some friends obtain some sets myself and I saw others buy way more.

2. The diamond preview numbers comments were great , one quick add on is that their numbers are artificially inflated due to variant covers. I wouldn't begin to speculate how many collectors buy them all. Oh, and I just thought of another disappointing comment to add to comic to collector numbers and that's many of the con goers (assuming them to be serious collectors) didn't know who Krake was on the back of my filecards I passed out. That would lead me to believe there is an outside component somewhere.

3. The club does not publisize their numbers. All I can say is that they once said, in reference to their MCAX site that if every Joe member put up 2 auctions, the site would have 6,000 aucions. This leaves the club membership at 3,000.

So what's my point to doing any of this? Honestly, nothing really. I heard someone say "why doesn' Hasbro just produce another 50K of 30th wave 4 and Storm Shadow and that's satisfy everyone?" On the surface I agree (and fanboy me wants them all :D) but I think that would make the brand go belly up. I think it's interesting to know and I think it's something for us to keep in the back of our minds when we're not happy with distribution or how to properly voice our concerns. Or just simply know your surroundings.

In the mean time, I'd like to continue to hear what others think :)

[skinny]

just a quick note on the comic book numbers.
Those numbers are distributor pre orders for the month according to Phil Kost's post over on Joereloaded not actual end consumer numbers

[Viperscout 7]

hey steelersmobat what about gyre and the rest of declassified they seem to be serious collectors trying to shed light on their hobby