**POSSIBLE** second run of the 2012 Oktober Guard Convention set

[Lody]

Hello all!

Just as a CHECK and we are NOT saying we are going to do this.....

We are curious as to how many of you did not get the Oktober Guard set and would still like to order one (boxed only)? We don't know if there is enough demand left to meet the MOQ (minimum order quantity) with the manufacturer.

In addition, we have NOT cleared any potential additional manufacturing quantities with Hasbro. So that we have an idea and can better serve you with future sets, if you would be interested in a set (IF it were possible to make more and it was approved), please fill out the attached spreadsheet with ALL of the information requested by Monday, July 2nd and return it to this email's return address (oktoberguard@gijoecon.com). We will only analyze spreadsheets that are returned and will not count/look at information in the email as this is a huge task.

We will analyze the data and see how much demand is still pending and we will let you know soon after July second if there is enough demand to warrant a second run. There should be no variation in the two runs.

I don't want anyone to get false hopes but we don't know what the potential demand is unless we ask. So, at this point assume that we will not be making any additional sets.

Thanks for helping us gauge your desires!

Brian

[Knight-Owl]

I'd love to order one if they became available again.

[Fast_Draw]

Why do they need all the personal information in the file to determine demand? lol If they do it and you said you'd buy it, then don't...are they going to use that info to hunt you down?

[RolandofGilead]

Is this only for folks who don't already have a set coming?

[The Commander]

Note this is for asking people who ordered a General or HomeFront Heroes package and didn't get to get one.

This is NOT about a second run just for anyone.

[RolandofGilead]

That's what I thought. Actually that's a very kind offer.

[Lody]

Note this is for asking people who ordered a General or HomeFront Heroes package and didn't get to get one.

This is NOT about a second run just for anyone.

Where did you see this? That's not stated anywhere

It aggravates me that you state this and it is clearly not the case.

[Lody]

Why do they need all the personal information in the file to determine demand? lol If they do it and you said you'd buy it, then don't...are they going to use that info to hunt you down?

It's so they can match up requests with actual club members. If every Tom, John and Harry on HissTank filled it out and passed it on to other gi Joe websites, I am sure they would hit that minimum easy. Instead they are leaving it open to club members only.

[The Commander]

Where did you see this? That's not stated anywhere

Third sentence

[Fast_Draw]

It's so they can match up requests with actual club members. Of every Tom, Fuck and Harry on HissTank filled it out and passed it on to other gi Joe websites, I am sure they would hit that minimum easy. Instead they are leaving it open to club members only.

You have to email them. All they need to do is check the email address to see if it's the address of a club member.

[spiderpumpkin]

deleted

[pstearman]

why couldn't they do this last year

[Lody]

Third sentence

You say that its not about a second run just for anyone....

It is a second run and its for club members.

Maybe I'm missing something in your translation here...

[Uninvited Ghost]

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let this happen. I've correctly sent the completed spreadsheet back by email...

[Lody]

Flipping the sets may be harder now if buyers know of a possible cheaper alternative.

First thing I thought of......Wth

[cmderinchief]

why couldn't they do this last year

Because not everything sold out BEFORE the show. It's a small but mighty difference.

[Marine-73]

Ok, so how do I go about putting my info in? how do I access the attachment?

[Lody]

Ok, so how do I go about putting my info in? how do I access the attachment?

It came in an email from the club to members. If you're not a member, you didn't get it.

[pstearman]

Because not everything sold out BEFORE the show. It's a small but mighty difference.

I tried to order a nonattendie set last year and was told they were all sold out

[The Commander]

It came in an email from the club to members. If you're not a member, you didn't get it.

Did it go to ALL members or just ones registered for con?

[ChaplainAsst]

Did it go to ALL members or just ones registered for con?

All the members

[The Commander]

All the members

Interesting....

[Lody]

did it go to all members or just ones registered for con?

idk

[Starfighter]

I think it is cool for the Club to think about this, but it is also uncool for them to make more after the convention as this is a convention set. The truth is that the exclusivity of it loses it's appeal and value. In reality, the Club should have announced this weeks ago, not the week of convention as many want to sell their sets to pay for part of the expenses of the convention.

Regardless, I hope that all that want it, get it. We as Joe fans need our Joes. Especially the A.R.A.H. stuff.

[emags]

Where did you see this? That's not stated anywhere

It aggravates me that you state this and it is clearly not the case.

Lody, the question that Brian asked "We are curious as to how many of you did not get the Oktober Guard set and would still like to order one (boxed only)?"

This is very specific wording....he did not say "who wants one?", he very clearly asked "how many of you did not get the OG set"?

If it was open to everyone, why make the distinction which he did?

[CrimsonGuard101]

Lody, the question that Brian asked "We are curious as to how many of you did not get the Oktober Guard set and would still like to order one (boxed only)?"

This is very specific wording....he did not say "who wants one?", he very clearly asked "how many of you did not get the OG set"?

If it was open to everyone, why make the distinction which he did?

I just got the email today and I did not get a chance to order the set via the on line sale due to the sell out (and stupid traffic). So it looks like it went to everyone. Its just an xls file to fill out to send back with intrest if it was possible. Everyone needs to send this in if they get one.

[dgnr82]

Note this is for asking people who ordered a General or HomeFront Heroes package and didn't get to get one.

This is NOT about a second run just for anyone.

that's not the case at all,..as I ordered one of each and still got to answer the email....

[sithewok]

After the amount I paid to assure myself a set, the selfish part of me doesn't want them to do a second run.

That said, it Would be nice for everyone to have a Chance at it, though, since it sold out so fast.... Guess I'm just too impatient.

[Mermaniel]

Id get one for 50$, not a penny more! :D guess ill never have one. Lol

[Typhis]

I would order one but...They are to dang expensive!!!

[Lantern_Lad]

I go the e-mail too... filled it out and returned! Fingers crossed!!!!

[sithewok]

Also, I'm a club member and didn't get the e-mail. Anyone else?

[CVdelgado]

how much is this thing?

is it just the october guard or that AND the iron grenadiers?

id be interested, but i have a feeling the price will blow me away... just a guess, $150???

how many figures are we talking here???

[Lifeline_MD]

Sent mine in as well. I REALLY hope they hit the minimum order number.

Honestly, I'll be somewhat surprised if they don't given that it DID sell out in a mere 3 hours after opening to non-attending.

[spiderpumpkin]

deleted

[dgnr82]

how much is this thing?

is it just the october guard or that AND the iron grenadiers?

id be interested, but i have a feeling the price will blow me away... just a guess, $150???

how many figures are we talking here???

basically I think they are saying,...if they can get the ok to make more, they are looking to see if they would hit the minimum order number. If they do, you would be able to order a BOXED set,...same as the ones they are gonna give out next weekend.

[Starfighter]

how much is this thing?

is it just the october guard or that AND the iron grenadiers?

id be interested, but i have a feeling the price will blow me away... just a guess, $150???

how many figures are we talking here???

$345 for 15 figures. Both the O.G.s and the th I.G.s.

[Hellion42]

If this goes through I think it'd be awesome. I'm a big proponent of "make as many as you can sell" as opposed to "keep it as exclusive as possible." I don't know what the target number is, but if 1,000 (or thereabouts) was the initial run, and they're even entertaining the idea of doing another, demand must be very high indeed.

[WildWeaselZ06]

I'm sorry, but I don't like this. It's just a cash grab. Especially if it's only the Oktober Guard. I pay $345 plus travel, plus lodging, plus incidentals to support the con and the club. Then someone else gets to get one for less than half after they bitch, whine and namecall the club. That is rather messed up.

Also, if they just decide to up the numbers, how does that effect the exclusive run of 600. Everyone had a choice, just some didn't pull the trigger, and now they get a reprieve.

[CVdelgado]

$345 for 15 figures. Both the O.G.s and the th I.G.s.

thanks!

holy s***.

***edit*** well that's only $23 a piece. thats a lot to drop on it though...

[Lody]

Lody, the question that Brian asked "We are curious as to how many of you did not get the Oktober Guard set and would still like to order one (boxed only)?"

This is very specific wording....he did not say "who wants one?", he very clearly asked "how many of you did not get the OG set"?

If it was open to everyone, why make the distinction which he did?

It IS open to everyone

Everyone that is a member

Not just those that tried to order a package

[Starfighter]

If this goes through I think it'd be awesome. I'm a big proponent of "make as many as you can sell" as opposed to "keep it as exclusive as possible." I don't know what the target number is, but if 1,000 (or thereabouts) was the initial run, and they're even entertaining the idea of doing another, demand must be very high indeed.

600 boxed and 325 bagged. Maybe 75 for errors/replacements. I would just assume that they may make a few more to lower the total cost once they are billed. Perhaps 250 more for a cheaper costs to make it 1250 total. But that is just a guess.

[Lody]

how much is this thing?

is it just the october guard or that AND the iron grenadiers?

id be interested, but i have a feeling the price will blow me away... just a guess, $150???

how many figures are we talking here???

It's the whole box set-all fifteen figures.

It sounds like it will be the same cost as a non attending, boxed set

[CVdelgado]

i just enjoy my toys for what they are, it desnt make me enjoy them more if someone else doesnt have them, although i do consider myself lucky to have gotten some of the things i got.

[CVdelgado]

It IS open to everyone

Everyone that is a member

Not just those that tried to order a package

this is how i read it as well.

and they sent me the email i havent tried to order shit before.

[wormser]

do i have to use a credit card??????

[Starfighter]

this is how i read it as well.

Same here.

[Hellion42]

i just enjoy my toys for what they are, it desnt make me enjoy them more if someone else doesnt have them, although i do consider myself lucky to have gotten some of the things i got.

This.

[Lody]

do i have to use a credit card??????

Yes

But a second run is NOT guaranteed.

Even if they get the minimum order, Hasbro has to approve it

I don't see that happening to be honest.

[wormser]

Yes

But a second run is NOT guaranteed.

Even if they get the minimum order, Hasbro has to approve it

I don't see that happening to be honest.

pass. im still on hold with visa trying to cancel my card from a few months ago.

[Starfighter]

do i have to use a credit card??????

Yes. It is secure now.

[Starfighter]

Yes

But a second run is NOT guaranteed.

Even if they get the minimum order, Hasbro has to approve it

I don't see that happening to be honest.

I can see Hasbro approving it as they approved it the first time. They have a cohesive relationship with Hasbro despite the credit card setbacks.

[Lifeline_MD]

I'm sorry, but I don't like this. It's just a cash grab. Especially if it's only the Oktober Guard. I pay $345 plus travel, plus lodging, plus incidentals to support the con and the club. Then someone else gets to get one for less than half after they bitch, whine and namecall the club. That is rather messed up.

Also, if they just decide to up the numbers, how does that effect the exclusive run of 600. Everyone had a choice, just some didn't pull the trigger, and now they get a reprieve.

There were plenty of us who did want to get a pack who were waiting to order one as soon as the home front heros sets were available, but didn't happen to be online to do so in the THREE HOURS before they sold out.

It's not a matter of making the choice to "not pull the trigger". It's about not having that choice available.

[spiderpumpkin]

deleted

[Lantern_Lad]

There were plenty of us who did want to get a pack who were waiting to order one as soon as the home front heros sets were available, but didn't happen to be online to do so in the THREE HOURS before they sold out.

It's not a matter of making the choice to "not pull the trigger". It's about not having that choice available.

Exactly.

[Lifeline_MD]

I can see Hasbro approving it as they approved it the first time. They have a cohesive relationship with Hasbro despite the credit card setbacks.

I don't see why hasbro would block it either. They already have a public relations fiasco with the movie delay. If they blocked this (assuming the club gets enough for production) it would be a disaster for PR.

[Lody]

Guaranteed?

Only death and taxes

[Rasstro]

Yes

But a second run is NOT guaranteed.

Even if they get the minimum order, Hasbro has to approve it

I don't see that happening to be honest.

Lody if there is ever a year Hasbro may approve this I wold think it would be this year. With the movie being delayed, their schedule release of toys blown up, etc... They would probably want the good will this year more then ever just to keep people coming back to G.i. Joe toys.

[Knight-Owl]

I'm a Joe Club member, going to go check my email now....

[Marine-73]

Thats just it, I am a member, I joined to get footloose, I get the monthly mailer/comic magazine...but yet I did not get an email.

[wormser]

im not giving the club another red cent after the shit storm i went through. if they would have warned me right away that credit cards got stolen, i might of have had 2k charged. the worst part of it all was they took my card AFTER they knew they were being hacked. no compensation either. ridiculous.

[wormser]

One day, young padawan, you will understand how a business works and that EVERY business does this unless they are too small to be able to.

I might be mistaken, but have any of the grocery stores that were hacked given you free food? Those "Payment processors" pay you anything when they're hacked?

-Kevin

what?????

[Lody]

Thats just it, I am a member, I joined to get footloose, I get the monthly mailer/comic magazine...but yet I did not get an email.

Check your spam

[Starfighter]

Thats just it, I am a member, I joined to get footloose, I get the monthly mailer/comic magazine...but yet I did not get an email.

They send out their emails in batches. You should be getting one soon.

[Starfighter]

im not giving the club another red cent after the shit storm i went through. if they would have warned me right away that credit cards got stolen, i might of have had 2k charged. the worst part of it all was they took my card AFTER they knew they were being hacked. no compensation either. ridiculous.

I am sure that your credit card company reimbursed you though. There was a mistake and the Club mishandled the situation, but as a consumer, I would not expect any compensation as that will most likely not happen. The only thing that you can really do is to let the BBB know. Even then, not much will happen.

[Dem_Yoe'z!]

I'm a member, but missed out on ordering the set. I got the email and sent the form in.

[wormser]

I am sure that your credit card company reimbursed you though. There was a mistake and the Club mishandled the situation, but as a consumer, I would not expect any compensation as that will most likely not happen. The only thing that you can really do is to let the BBB know. Even then, not much will happen.

or you can just say to hell with them for having bad customer service and handling things like they did. there was more to it than just my card getting stolen. my problem could have been prevented in the first place. im surprised how many people get offended and start picking arguments when someone boycotts the club. if you wanna do business with them, go ahead. but people need to understand why others are pissed and want nothing to do with them

[Knight-Owl]

...I got the email.
Sent the spread sheet back filled out.

[wormser]

That's a two way street. :) I understand your frustration.

But I also think you need to understand that some people think you're overreacting. "Let's not support this company because of bad customer service roar!" yet you still use Visa/Mastercard, who've done the same thing. In fact, their Customer Service is having your bank handle you, not them. That sounds a lot like the GIJCC to me...

-Kevin

wow. your logic is kinda ridiculous. im not even gonna get into it with you. over reacting??????? ok.....

[Starfighter]

or you can just say to hell with them for having bad customer service and handling things like they did. there was more to it than just my card getting stolen. my problem could have been prevented in the first place. im surprised how many people get offended and start picking arguments when someone boycotts the club. if you wanna do business with them, go ahead. but people need to understand why others are pissed and want nothing to do with them

I would be upset too if it happened to me. However, the reality of it is that in years to come, people will not even talk of the problem and more people will purchase their products as they are the only game in town for Joe Fans other than the retailers. This issue will die down and the Club and consumers will act as if this will not happen again.

[wormser]

and what grocery store are you talking about???? i never had problems with a grocery store getting hacked.....

[wormser]

I would be upset too if it happened to me. However, the reality of it is that in years to come, people will not even talk of the problem and more people will purchase their products as they are the only game in town for Joe Fans other than the retailers. This issue will die down and the Club and consumers will act as if this will not happen again.

no, YOU will not be talking about it and YOU will be buying from them. thats fine. i wont because i went through hell with this. it wasnt like i just picked up the phone and called visa and said, "hey, change my card number".

[Starfighter]

no, YOU will not be talking about it and YOU will be buying from them. thats fine. i wont because i went through hell with this. it wasnt like i just picked up the phone and called visa and said, "hey, change my card number".

What if your dream set comes out, will you purchase it through the Club or pay double for it on eBay? In that case, even if you buy it from another person, you still have supported the Club as that was a sold product in there eyes. At some point, you are the only one losing out due to your frustration (which is warranted). However, you have to think about what the pros and cons are. If you stay frustrated, you may miss out. If you purchase a set, you support the Club and go against your values. I would just let it go. I know that may sound harsh, but in the end, you are the only one missing out if you stay upset. Again, I do not mean to offend you. I just hope that you can see it the other way.

[Zoomie2001]

They should do the non-con stuff in a non-boxed set. I would totally buy the Oktober Guard set if it were in baggies in a manila envelope. I'm dead serious. Then if someone wanted to hock the Con set, it would be different and carry more value. The second run would be for people who want the set and would carry less value because of the lack of an official con box.

If I wouldn've bought the Con set and gone to the Con, I just would've opened the set anyway. I could give two shits about the box. I just want the figures...

[Starfighter]

They should do the non-con stuff in a non-boxed set. I would totally buy the Oktober Guard set if it were in baggies in a manila envelope. I'm dead serious. Then if someone wanted to hock the Con set, it would be different and carry more value. The second run would be for people who want the set and would carry less value because of the lack of an official con box.

If I wouldn've bought the Con set and gone to the Con, I just would've opened the set anyway. I could give two shits about the box. I just want the figures...

They have the bagged sets for that case. However, you have to buy a boxed set first.

[CrimsonGuard101]

They should do the non-con stuff in a non-boxed set. I would totally buy the Oktober Guard set if it were in baggies in a manila envelope. I'm dead serious. Then if someone wanted to hock the Con set, it would be different and carry more value. The second run would be for people who want the set and would carry less value because of the lack of an official con box.

If I wouldn've bought the Con set and gone to the Con, I just would've opened the set anyway. I could give two shits about the box. I just want the figures...

I agree if you want the box go to the con, that makes it "exclusive" lol if you dotn wanna go and you still you want the figures...let us all have them as the bagged version...plus extras of the IGs...I wouldnt mind another 4-5 of the long skirts...be nice to get those form my club store..since i never use it...

[RogueWingnut]

My own opinions on the club aside...the IG club con exclusive is a dreamset for me because its IGs and Oktober Guard for cryin out loud.

But I'm not making an effort to get it.
If I happen into a few pieces, thats awesome, I have wonderful friends. If I dont, tis life. I dont trust the GJCC enough because they have not been forthcoming at all in information all these months later.

I was hoping for some long panel with them to discuss this so I could read 'good' notes about how their improving customer service or they have answers to the crapfest earlier this year...but 1 hr? Seriously?

Still not in their corner.
And other people have a different opinion.
Thats perfectly awesome and I wish them well and hope they don't have anything unfortunate happen to them. I just dont trust them yet.

[07GT500 COBRA]

I'm attending con and registered my girlfriend for 1 boxed and 1 bagged set each and still got this email.

To be honest, I'm considering replying for another set.

[CrimsonGuard101]

I'm attending con and registered my girlfriend for 1 boxed and 1 bagged set each and still got this email.

To be honest, I'm considering replying for another set.

do it! it helps everyone. I did it

[Starfighter]

I agree if you want the box go to the con, that makes it "exclusive" lol if you dotn wanna go and you still you want the figures...let us all have them as the bagged version...plus extras of the IGs...I wouldnt mind another 4-5 of the long skirts...be nice to get those form my club store..since i never use it...

How about do the opposite? If you go to the con, you get the $200 discount for showing up as that will eqse some of the expenses. If not, you pay the marked up Boxed set price. That would motivate more to go to the con.

[CrimsonGuard101]

How about do the opposite? If you go to the con, you get the $200 discount for showing up as that will eqse some of the expenses. If not, you pay the marked up Boxed set price. That would motivate more to go to the con.

That would work. I still wouldnt be going lol...but thats a fair trade off. Give the boxed set as a bagged set price for attendees. Dont forget the attendees also get all the other suvoniers too. So its not like they are loosing total exclusivity...

[Starfighter]

That would work. I still wouldnt be going lol...but thats a fair trade off. Give the boxed set as a bagged set price for attendees.

It would also help those that go sell off their extra set for an extra $200. They would just sell theirs for what the Club sells them for.

[07GT500 COBRA]

do it! it helps everyone. I did it

I probably will, but I don't think it's gonna happen.

[Starfighter]

I probably will, but I don't think it's gonna happen.

I am thinking that it will just gage the number next year.

[CrimsonGuard101]

I am thinking that it will just gage the number next year.

it would help them yes, either way peeps need to fill it out. its gonna suck when they announce 200 sets next year cause no one fills this out lol...

[Starfighter]

it would help them yes, either way peeps need to fill it out. its gonna suck when they announce 200 sets next year cause no one fills this out lol...

I think that the production numbers will go up regardless. Perhaps 800 boxed sets and 400 bagged with 50 for replacements.

[CrimsonGuard101]

I think that the production numbers will go up regardless. Perhaps 800 boxed sets and 400 bagged with 50 for replacements.

thing is though.. i hope it s good set next year...or it will tank with too many extras made and piss em right off lol...

[RogueWingnut]

thing is though.. i hope it s good set next year...or it will tank with too many extras made and piss em right off lol...

Keep Voltar in the sets and BFJ will keep buying them
You know its sad but true.

[firefox91]

Wouldn't it make more sense to encourage this message to go out to everyone and not just club members. After all, if you are not a member and want a set, you need to become a member. And that would just be more money for the club. Seems dumb to only market this to the existing members many of which already locked in a set.

[Lody]

Wouldn't it make more sense to encourage this message to go out to everyone and not just club members. After all, if you are not a member and want a set, you need to become a member. And that would just be more money for the club. Seems dumb to only market this to the existing members many of which already locked in a set.

I am not aware if they eliminated the option or not, but the Trooper level allowed you to become a non paying member, so while you wouldn't get the discounts etc, you got the emails and notifications.

Are they still doing that or was that squashed with the new site?

[Black Swan]

Got the email but the attachment won't open.fml
:(
While it would be a good way to gauge future Joe Con sets down the road...but all that had with the CC issues of which I was affected, the change in Joe Con date and so on...I just feel like it's just a little too late from theClub...my membership still 9 months to go till it expires. Good luck to rest of you that still want a set.

[Cdt Weasel]

I am not aware if they eliminated the option or not, but the Trooper level allowed you to become a non paying member, so while you wouldn't get the discounts etc, you got the emails and notifications.

Are they still doing that or was that squashed with the new site?

I'm pretty sure the free membership was squashed awhile ago, even before the cc debacle.

[Starfighter]

I'm pretty sure the free membership was squashed awhile ago, even before the cc debacle.

I think so too.

[Superjoe74]

thing is though.. i hope it s good set next year...or it will tank with too many extras made and piss em right off lol...

If the Club has a better year in 2013- meaning they do not have so many serious set backs as regards their time frame to prepare for the Con they could easily allow members to preorder Convention sets. If members could order in advance then the Club would know the product demand.

[Playful]

I received the e-mail too, but I don't believe it.

Let me explain my reasoning. If these are truly boxed sets to be made or ordered AFTER the convention, then there is no rush. The Club could just handle this in July or later, as time permits.

But the rushed spreadsheet three days before the convention offers the Club the opportunity to say "Sorry, we considered making more sets for our members, but not enough interest was there for us to go ahead with a second run".

It sort of reminds me of the Credit Card disaster. A long time after the damage was done, and members had to fix things on their own, the Club offered one year of help possibly paid for by other club members (via membership rate, postage rate, and processing fee increases).

Maybe I'm wrong, but I am expecting the Club to announce that no second run of the Oktober Guard boxed set will happen, regardless of the feedback on the spreadsheet.

[Hellion42]

The timing could simply be striking while the iron is hot. There's also this (http://www.hisstank.com/gi-joe-news/other-14/e-hobby-gauging-interest-in-bringing-gi-joe-exclusives-to-japan-11415/) to consider. The club could be trying to see how much they would need to carve out for themselves on a second run mostly destined for eHobby.

[Playful]

The timing could simply be striking while the iron is hot. There's also this (http://www.hisstank.com/gi-joe-news/other-14/e-hobby-gauging-interest-in-bringing-gi-joe-exclusives-to-japan-11415/) to consider. The club could be trying to see how much they would need to carve out for themselves on a second run mostly destined for eHobby.

Those are good points, and I thought of those also.

But given that only three days remain until the convention and with so much work for the Club to do, how many employees and man-power hours are available to read each e-mailed reply, cross reference with the membership list, and compile for sales statistics?

I hope the Club is being sincere, but I think this whole thing is just one more disappointment for 2012, the year of Joe Bad News.

To borrow the 40K quote, "Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment".

[Mongoose]

I'd like an original o-ring crimson strike team that I missed out on. How about the club make another run of those? I'd like a Cold Slither Zarana and TTT Slaughter. Maybe those can be re-run too?

These con sets are a LIMITED item with a LIMITED production run. Why do we as collectors feel like we're entitled to everything we want when we want it? If you missed out on this set, then tough crap. I've missed out on a lot of limited stuff too, but that's the name of the game.

These sets are con exclusives first and foremost. EVERYONE had the chance to buy an attendee package and go to the con. If you couldn't afford it, then once again, tough crap. I can't ever afford to go to SDCC, so I know that missing out on those exclusives is a real possibility. I accept that fact as a grown up and move on.

[Hellion42]

Those are good points, and I thought of those also.

But given that only three days remain until the convention and with so much work for the Club to do, how many employees and man-power hours are available to read each e-mailed reply, cross reference with the membership list, and compile for sales statistics?

This is likely why they put out a spreadsheet instead of asking for email replies. Import the returned sheets as a batch, match against existing customer data (likely email address), remove unmatched records, done. Should take about 10 minutes max... and they don't have to act on it immediately. The data will be there whenever there's time to analyze it.

I'm not exactly optimistic of this actually becoming a thing, but I don't see a reason (other than pessimism, which is certainly warranted) to count this out yet.

[kennywr22]

I know some are saying its a way to gauge future con sets but that seems a bit unpredictable to me. I mean this set could be in really high demand but next years could be half as popular. It really depends on the set. I didn't get last years since I don't care for python patrol. Seems to be a year to year thing to judge. My 2 cents.

[CrimsonGuard101]

I'd like an original o-ring crimson strike team that I missed out on. How about the club make another run of those? I'd like a Cold Slither Zarana and TTT Slaughter. Maybe those can be re-run too?

These con sets are a LIMITED item with a LIMITED production run. Why do we as collectors feel like we're entitled to everything we want when we want it? If you missed out on this set, then tough crap. I've missed out on a lot of limited stuff too, but that's the name of the game.

These sets are con exclusives first and foremost. EVERYONE had the chance to buy an attendee package and go to the con. If you couldn't afford it, then once again, tough crap. I can't ever afford to go to SDCC, so I know that missing out on those exclusives is a real possibility. I accept that fact as a grown up and move on.

thats a lot of bad karma your packing up there...i hope it dosent come back to bite you sooner then you want...honey badger dosent give a crap!

[Mongoose]

thats a lot of bad karma your packing up there...i hope it dosent come back to bite you sooner then you want...honey badger dosent give a crap!

I'm not being overly negative or mean, just realistic.

A set amount of goods has been produced for a con. If you can't go to the con, then you aren't garaunteed anything. That's just the law of the jungle. I'm shelling out a lot of cash to go to this con. Why even bother if the club makes the limited set available afterwards to everyone else? That doesn't give me an incentive to keep going, therefore the club loses money in the future. This is a poor idea in general.

[RuckusJr]

thats a lot of bad karma your packing up there...i hope it dosent come back to bite you sooner then you want...honey badger dosent give a crap!

Bad karma...wow. So you think Hasbro and the Club should just put everything back into production because there is a segment of the collecting community that wants certain figures? This has been tried several times with different lines and different companies and fans are almost always more vocal than they are numerous. They say they want thing, they'll buy things, they demand certain figures, but when those figures are produced they largely fall flat on their faces. Low-Light would be a huge exception.

The Club has been burned so badly with the Flaming Moth and DTC figures that they've had them in stock for years and haven't been able to get rid of them on clearance. You may think that even if they sell them out in 5 years, they've still sold them out, but the fact of the matter is you want a quick return on your investment if you're a retailer. They walk a fine line and they're not always right. These are underproduced, and there is no arguing that. But did they underproduce by 50 or 500? That's what will determine whether these go back into production or not.

[Zoomie2001]

I don't trust the club a whole lot and it all stems from the FSS. The credit card thing doesn't bother me as much, it could happen to anyone. But the whole fact that the FSS is still dangling out there is kind of annoying to me. I ONLY JOINED for the FSS.

[nova]

I received the e-mail too, but I don't believe it.


If you really want to get into Club Speculation and their perpetually shifting production numbers, this would be a great spot.


Obviously there is a MOQ that the Club has to make,

It's possible that the MOQ # is higher than the actual published production numbers. (This is always the case, Brian always has extras maybe 10% to cover QC and other errors...he also has that "Bagged fuschia set" Tree...because those fuckers never seem to go away.)

If this is the case there could be extra figures that would normally have been "destroyed" by the factory or the Club....

Brian just needs this email info as his excuse to reach out to those "garbage figures" and make them full sets... All profit for the Club because they have a shit ton of fines and expenses from their hacking episode earlier this year.

[Stl_Brgd_PFC_Ramar]

I wasn't able to get one, and I would definitely be in for at least 1.

[luigi]

i would if i had the money

[Lody]

Bad karma...wow. So you think Hasbro and the Club should just put everything back into production because there is a segment of the collecting community that wants certain figures? This has been tried several times with different lines and different companies and fans are almost always more vocal than they are numerous. They say they want thing, they'll buy things, they demand certain figures, but when those figures are produced they largely fall flat on their faces. Low-Light would be a huge exception.

The Club has been burned so badly with the Flaming Moth and DTC figures that they've had them in stock for years and haven't been able to get rid of them on clearance. You may think that even if they sell them out in 5 years, they've still sold them out, but the fact of the matter is you want a quick return on your investment if you're a retailer. They walk a fine line and they're not always right. These are underproduced, and there is no arguing that. But did they underproduce by 50 or 500? That's what will determine whether these go back into production or not.

That's ok...it makes about as much sense as 14, 713 of his other posts.

[Air-tight]

I hope EVERYONE that got the email fills it out and sends it in.

[Loose Cannon]

Damn that seems nice. I only wish they did this before I dropped$700 to get one from an attendee.
I misseed the 30 sec window to order mine.

[MrClean]

Seems pretty simple.

Club honcho: "We need more money. How can we get more money?"

Club lackey #1: "we could make more overpriced con sets and sell them."

Club lackey#2: "Yeah. What he said."

Club honcho: "Send the email. Make no promises"

Lackeys in unison: "Sure thing boss."

Lackeys then run face first into each other, knocking themselves out. Boss shakes head and sends email.

[Steel Brigade]

I think this should happen, they were gone far to fast with all the demand.

[Jmacq1]

I'd like an original o-ring crimson strike team that I missed out on. How about the club make another run of those? I'd like a Cold Slither Zarana and TTT Slaughter. Maybe those can be re-run too?

These con sets are a LIMITED item with a LIMITED production run. Why do we as collectors feel like we're entitled to everything we want when we want it? If you missed out on this set, then tough crap. I've missed out on a lot of limited stuff too, but that's the name of the game.

These sets are con exclusives first and foremost. EVERYONE had the chance to buy an attendee package and go to the con. If you couldn't afford it, then once again, tough crap. I can't ever afford to go to SDCC, so I know that missing out on those exclusives is a real possibility. I accept that fact as a grown up and move on.

Funny, as a grown up I accept the fact that companies might sometimes do things I don't agree with and not cater to me and me alone.

There were already many people not going to the Con who were still getting their sets via the "Homefront Hero" packages. The ONLY real reason to get upset about other people having the opportunity to get the set is if you planned to sell one or more of your sets to defray the costs of going to the Convention.

Of course, if that were the case, then the entire premise of "If you want the set, go to the Convention/Convention attendees ONLY" is a big pile of hypocritical BS.

To be clear, I don't know that you planned to sell off some of your con Swag or not, but that's the ONLY logical reason to get upset about a potential second run: The only people it "hurts" are secondary market sellers. If you're honestly getting angry just at the thought that some other people might get a "limited" toy at the same price you did without actually going to the Con...you've really got no room talking about being "grown up" at all.

Nevermind that they could double or triple the production runs of these and they'd still be among the most rare and "limited" G.I. Joe figures out there.

[rdodger]

I think the club is just trying to meet the needs of its fans. Lots of people were upset by not being able to get this set, and the Club probably is tired of hearing complaints. It's been a tough year for them. This just goes to show that the Club can't win. No matter what it does, someone is upset.

[Jmacq1]

I think the club is just trying to meet the needs of its fans. Lots of people were upset by not being able to get this set, and the Club probably is tired of hearing complaints. It's been a tough year for them. This just goes to show that the Club can't win. No matter what it does, someone is upset.

That does seem to come with the territory where adult collectors of virtually ANY stripe are concerned. It's certainly not exclusive to G.I. Joe collectors.

[Lody]

I think the club is just trying to meet the needs of its fans. Lots of people were upset by not being able to get this set, and the Club probably is tired of hearing complaints. It's been a tough year for them. This just goes to show that the Club can't win. No matter what it does, someone is upset.

I think the term "butt hurt" is pretty accurate

:D

[Scotty97]

Why do they need all the personal information in the file to determine demand? lol If they do it and you said you'd buy it, then don't...are they going to use that info to hunt you down?

No, they're going to use it to charge your credit card for purchases in Switzerland and Bangkok, lol.

[Fast_Draw]

Bad karma...wow. So you think Hasbro and the Club should just put everything back into production because there is a segment of the collecting community that wants certain figures? This has been tried several times with different lines and different companies and fans are almost always more vocal than they are numerous. They say they want thing, they'll buy things, they demand certain figures, but when those figures are produced they largely fall flat on their faces. Low-Light would be a huge exception.

The same fans that asked for 7-packs and other items only to say "I'll wait for it to hit Ross" or "I'll get a set when it goes on clearance." I find it hard to believe everyone that says they'll buy a Con set will fork over the $350+ shipped for one.

I hope EVERYONE that got the email fills it out and sends it in.

You mean everyone that will buy one? I'm not filling it out because I would not buy a 2nd boxed set. They'll be left with a ton of sets if we all just filled out the form and then didn't buy the set.

[WildWeaselZ06]

I think the club is just trying to meet the needs of its fans. Lots of people were upset by not being able to get this set, and the Club probably is tired of hearing complaints. It's been a tough year for them. This just goes to show that the Club can't win. No matter what it does, someone is upset.

The only problem is that the "Fans" are never happy. Remember the calling for Brian's head on a pike and the demands to Hasbro to pull the Club's license over the CC fiasco. I see some of the same people that calling for the end of the GIJCC making noise that they couldn't get these sets and what a great idea this is. Sorry, why are we going out of our way to appease the fair weather fans.

[Morgardee]

I didn't order a set this year. I never got a chance to order the homefront hero set as they sold out, so I didn't see the order forms. I was lucky enough to have a friend pick my up a set who is going. Was there ever a disclaimer on the order sheets that said anything like "subject to change" in regards to production numbers anywhere?

If not then Fun Publishing is setting itself up for a class action lawsuit if anyone is upset and really motivated, assuming they make a second run.

Part of the reason people pay the premium price on the toys is because of the low production numbers and the "exclusive" feel they have. All my GIJCC sets are set up on their own glass shelves in my basement, away from my other Joes. That is because they are exclusive items and deserve the extra attention.

[07GT500 COBRA]

I didn't order a set this year. I never got a chance to order the homefront hero set as they sold out, so I didn't see the order forms. I was lucky enough to have a friend pick my up a set who is going. Was there ever a disclaimer on the order sheets that said anything like "subject to change" in regards to production numbers anywhere?

If not then Fun Publishing is setting itself up for a class action lawsuit if anyone is upset and really motivated, assuming they make a second run.

Part of the reason people pay the premium price on the toys is because of the low production numbers and the "exclusive" feel they have. All my GIJCC sets are set up on their own glass shelves in my basement, away from my other Joes. That is because they are exclusive items and deserve the extra attention.

True. Didn't the Upper Deck card company get the hammer put down on them for reprinting a lot of their "limited run" cards?

The Club may have legally bound themselves to only produce the number they have stated in the adverts etc. Now, they could make some paint or packaging alterations to get around this I suppose. Maybe even split up the IG and OG into separate sets, but that would be another gamble itself.

[cobracobra]

Cool. Well I am in like flint on this thanks for the heads up Lody! Tanker of the month material right here folks.

[Starfighter]

It is hard to gauge the interest as this was such a quick sell with very little notification onto what the set was. If the Club wants to know a more accurate estimate, let everyone know ahead (more than 2 months before the Convention) of time what the set will be and then poll the new members on why they joined the Club to see if it was because of that particular set. If the Club would just put the set out there, then they would have gained more members that were not in the know.

[Loose Cannon]

I think the club is actually caring about the average club member like myself. We like the club. We stuck with them through the Cc business. We generally see them astrying to do the best they can. But we can't go to the conventions but we still keep a membership to buy the con set every year. This is the first year it sold out in hours.

Now the club may have had its lowest run ever. They didn't correctly predict demand. They're human. Still making more sets makes them more money. And now they are doing what has been suggested for years. PREORDER!

The club doesn't make money from the secondary market so why should they cater to it? Besides that is what the bagged sets are for.

[Jmacq1]

I didn't order a set this year. I never got a chance to order the homefront hero set as they sold out, so I didn't see the order forms. I was lucky enough to have a friend pick my up a set who is going. Was there ever a disclaimer on the order sheets that said anything like "subject to change" in regards to production numbers anywhere?

If not then Fun Publishing is setting itself up for a class action lawsuit if anyone is upset and really motivated, assuming they make a second run.

Part of the reason people pay the premium price on the toys is because of the low production numbers and the "exclusive" feel they have. All my GIJCC sets are set up on their own glass shelves in my basement, away from my other Joes. That is because they are exclusive items and deserve the extra attention.

As I noted earlier, even if you double or triple the overall production levels of these sets, they would still be among the rarest Joe figures out there, and still quite "exclusive." That and nowhere does the Club make any guarantee of the Con sets raising in value or even keeping their original value. Limited/Exclusive or not, they're advertised as a toy, not an investment.

Nevermind the colossal waste of time and money that a class action lawsuit would be, the only interesting thing that might come out of it is that the court might have to subpoena Hasbro to release information about a "normal" production run so the court could show just how "limited" the product still is.

[wormser]

this thread has really opened my eyes to what kind of logic gi joe fans actually have and its quite scary. i dont want anything to do with these types of humans. you go ahead and make lite of what mst of us went through with the credit card debacle cause you didnt go through it. and keep assuming it was all made beter after a simple 2 minute phone call. the club should never have accepted new members after knowing there was a breach in security and i got screwed from that. i didnt get nothing but a 3 month late letter in the mail saying they might a security issue. they lost my business and many others business with their "only game in town" attitude. and you blind followers can keep supporting them if you want. thats your problem. things will never change. and now i actually hope you all go through the debacle we went through and have your shit stolen. see how fast you change your tune. shame on you for mocking someone who boycotts them for what happened.

[MJjoe4life]

I think there wont be a second run of OG boxed sets, but i think this data will help with future con sets so they could get more produced so that more people have a shot a getting at least a boxed set.

[Starfighter]

I didn't order a set this year. I never got a chance to order the homefront hero set as they sold out, so I didn't see the order forms. I was lucky enough to have a friend pick my up a set who is going. Was there ever a disclaimer on the order sheets that said anything like "subject to change" in regards to production numbers anywhere?

If not then Fun Publishing is setting itself up for a class action lawsuit if anyone is upset and really motivated, assuming they make a second run.

Part of the reason people pay the premium price on the toys is because of the low production numbers and the "exclusive" feel they have. All my GIJCC sets are set up on their own glass shelves in my basement, away from my other Joes. That is because they are exclusive items and deserve the extra attention.

Interesting. There could be an issue.

[Starfighter]

Seems pretty simple.

Club honcho: "We need more money. How can we get more money?"

Club lackey #1: "we could make more overpriced con sets and sell them."

Club lackey#2: "Yeah. What he said."

Club honcho: "Send the email. Make no promises"

Lackeys in unison: "Sure thing boss."

Lackeys then run face first into each other, knocking themselves out. Boss shakes head and sends email.

The Club could just sell them on eBay for 2-3 times their value and make more profit that way on each extra set that the "midnight release".

[Starfighter]

Funny, as a grown up I accept the fact that companies might sometimes do things I don't agree with and not cater to me and me alone.

There were already many people not going to the Con who were still getting their sets via the "Homefront Hero" packages. The ONLY real reason to get upset about other people having the opportunity to get the set is if you planned to sell one or more of your sets to defray the costs of going to the Convention.

Of course, if that were the case, then the entire premise of "If you want the set, go to the Convention/Convention attendees ONLY" is a big pile of hypocritical BS.

To be clear, I don't know that you planned to sell off some of your con Swag or not, but that's the ONLY logical reason to get upset about a potential second run: The only people it "hurts" are secondary market sellers. If you're honestly getting angry just at the thought that some other people might get a "limited" toy at the same price you did without actually going to the Con...you've really got no room talking about being "grown up" at all.

Nevermind that they could double or triple the production runs of these and they'd still be among the most rare and "limited" G.I. Joe figures out there.

I mean no offense, but so what if he is going and wants to make some of the money back? Calling him out proves nothing in your debate other than you just think differently. I bet that nearly all of the convention attendees want to sell their second set if they have bought it for maximum profit. You might as well just call them all scalpers. Too bad I only purchased 1 set or I would do the exact same. I am even trying to trade the convention attendee only items so that I can keep my set and sell the others. Does that make me a scalper, no, I just want to offset some of the cost. The Club really should charge less for the Boxed set for those that are attending and more for those that are not so that it will motivate more to go to the convention. It will also make the members that are going feel like they have gotten a deal for doing so. If you go to the con, you get the $200 discount for showing up as that will cover some of the expenses. If not, you pay the marked up Boxed set price. That would motivate more to go to the con as well.

[Jmacq1]

this thread has really opened my eyes to what kind of logic gi joe fans actually have and its quite scary. i dont want anything to do with these types of humans. you go ahead and make lite of what mst of us went through with the credit card debacle cause you didnt go through it. and keep assuming it was all made beter after a simple 2 minute phone call. the club should never have accepted new members after knowing there was a breach in security and i got screwed from that. i didnt get nothing but a 3 month late letter in the mail saying they might a security issue. they lost my business and many others business with their "only game in town" attitude. and you blind followers can keep supporting them if you want. thats your problem. things will never change. and now i actually hope you all go through the debacle we went through and have your shit stolen. see how fast you change your tune. shame on you for mocking someone who boycotts them for what happened.

Let's see: I -did- get fraudulent charges on my card.

I called my credit card company and provided them with the information.

About two minutes later, a new card was on its' way, and about two days later, the charge was removed from my card.

If your experience was so much more painful, then quite frankly, you have a shitty credit card company (or bank, as the case may be), and that's not the Club's fault.

Further, while you keep acting like you're the only person in the world that's had it rough, and the Club is the only company in the world that's ever had this problem, the rest of us realize that you take a risk every single goddamn time you run that credit card, online, in-person, or otherwise. It just becomes a matter of whether or not the product you're buying is worth taking that risk as an individual.

It's not about being a "blind follower." It's about being an informed consumer, and our choice to continue buying from the Club is every bit as valid as your choice not to. The reason you're getting mocked is because you are, quite literally, coming across as a big baby about it all.

[Starfighter]

Let's see: I -did- get fraudulent charges on my card.

I called my credit card company and provided them with the information.

About two minutes later, a new card was on its' way, and about two days later, the charge was removed from my card.

If your experience was so much more painful, then quite frankly, you have a shitty credit card company (or bank, as the case may be), and that's not the Club's fault.

Further, while you keep acting like you're the only person in the world that's had it rough, and the Club is the only company in the world that's ever had this problem, the rest of us realize that you take a risk every single goddamn time you run that credit card, online, in-person, or otherwise. It just becomes a matter of whether or not the product you're buying is worth taking that risk as an individual.

It's not about being a "blind follower." It's about being an informed consumer, and our choice to continue buying from the Club is every bit as valid as your choice not to. The reason you're getting mocked is because you are, quite literally, coming across as a big baby about it all.

This, I agree with and I think that many have been trying to tell him.

As stated earlier,
What if your dream set comes out, will you purchase it through the Club or pay double for it on eBay? In that case, even if you buy it from another person, you still have supported the Club as that was a sold product in there eyes. At some point, you are the only one losing out due to your frustration (which is warranted). However, you have to think about what the pros and cons are. If you stay frustrated, you may miss out. If you purchase a set, you support the Club and go against your values. I would just let it go. I know that may sound harsh, but in the end, you are the only one missing out if you stay upset. Again, I do not mean to offend you. I just hope that you can see it the other way.

[Jmacq1]

So what if he is going and wants to make some of the money back? Calling him out proves nothing in your debate other than you just think differently. I bet that nearly all of the convention attendees want to sell their second set if they have bought it for maximum profit. You might as well just call them all scalpers. Too bad I only purchased 1 set or I would do the exact same. I am even trying to trade the convention attendee only items so that I can keep my set and sell the others. Does that make me a scalper, no, I just want to offset some of the cost. The Club really should charge less for the Boxed set for those that are attending and more for those that are not so that it will motivate more to go to the convention.

The issue being that if the "sell the extras" scenario is true, then he was presenting a false scenario. You don't harp on the point of "If you want the Convention set then go to the convention and the only way to get the con set should be to go to the convention!" point when in fact that's a flat-out lie and what you REALLY meant is "The only way you should get a Con set is if you go to the convention or buy it from someone who did (me) at whatever markup I/they decide to put on it!" (Again, this is if and only if Mongoose was planning on selling off his extras, if any).

If you're selling off extras, then it's no longer "The Convention Attendees should be the only place they can be had!" You're defeating your own argument by becoming a purveyor of the product yourself. Even if you're just hooking up your Joe-buddies for cost + shipping, what makes your buddies any different from anyone else that didn't go to the Con beside the fact of being your buddy?

It's massive hypocrisy to call anyone "entitled" and then demand that a limited product only be limited to "me" simply because I have the money and opportunity to go to one particular convention. Nevermind that the Club has regularly offered "Homefront Hero" packages for years now. Were people bitching about those existing every single year when they WEREN'T selling out even through the Convention (answer: No)? Or is it only now when they realize they can get a fat profit from their extra sets because they're selling out so fast (answer: Yes)?

Hey, here's one for you: If the product is so "limited and exclusive" then you should be "limited" to only ONE. No extras, no golden tickets, no girlfriends buying another one for you, no bagged sets. After all, the important thing is the "exclusivity" right?

But then that brings about the point that if you're really so deeply obsessed with having a few little plastic men that not many other people do, and believe that other people should not have the opportunity to get these little plastic men so you alone (along with those few others) can continue to feel special and privileged for having them...how "grown up" of an attitude is that? It's effectively "I've got this cool toy and you don't! Nyah-Nyah!"

Once again, the Club making a few extra sets (which may or may not happen) only hurts secondary market sellers, and barely affects "exclusivity" at all given that the overall production runs will still be vastly lower than any normal retail product.

[poddie]

One day, young padawan, you will understand how a business works and that EVERY business does this unless they are too small to be able to.

I might be mistaken, but have any of the grocery stores that were hacked given you free food? Those "Payment processors" pay you anything when they're hacked?

-Kevin

Exactly. People really need to understand that online credit card usage comes with some risks. Watch your statements, and call the cc company if anything funny shows up. In the four cases where my number has been used fraudulently, my cc company called me long before the statement would have come.

And they have always taken 100% of the liability for it as well. I have never personally been held responsible for a penny. I have to wonder if this is more a matter of people not following through with the fraudulent charge paperwork or something. Otherwise I just don't see how they are losing money or much time, based on my 25 years experiences with credit cards and lots of online shopping.

Perhaps these are small credit card companies or something? I don't know... mine have always been Discover, Chase, Capitol One, etc, and they have always treated me very well and been incredibly responsive and helpful with these types of things.

[Hellion42]

The issue being that if the "sell the extras" scenario is true, then he was presenting a false scenario. You don't harp on the point of "If you want the Convention set then go to the convention and the only way to get the con set should be to go to the convention!" point when in fact that's a flat-out lie and what you REALLY meant is "The only way you should get a Con set is if you go to the convention or buy it from someone who did (me) at whatever markup I/they decide to put on it!" (Again, this is if and only if Mongoose was planning on selling off his extras, if any).

If you're selling off extras, then it's no longer "The Convention Attendees should be the only place they can be had!" You're defeating your own argument by becoming a purveyor of the product yourself. Even if you're just hooking up your Joe-buddies for cost + shipping, what makes your buddies any different from anyone else that didn't go to the Con beside the fact of being your buddy?

It's massive hypocrisy to call anyone "entitled" and then demand that a limited product only be limited to "me" simply because I have the money and opportunity to go to one particular convention. Nevermind that the Club has regularly offered "Homefront Hero" packages for years now. Were people bitching about those existing every single year when they WEREN'T selling out even through the Convention (answer: No)? Or is it only now when they realize they can get a fat profit from their extra sets because they're selling out so fast (answer: Yes)?

Hey, here's one for you: If the product is so "limited and exclusive" then you should be "limited" to only ONE. No extras, no golden tickets, no girlfriends buying another one for you, no bagged sets. After all, the important thing is the "exclusivity" right?

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i116/hellion42/anigifs/slow-clap.gif

[poddie]

I think it is cool for the Club to think about this, but it is also uncool for them to make more after the convention as this is a convention set. The truth is that the exclusivity of it loses it's appeal and value. In reality, the Club should have announced this weeks ago, not the week of convention as many want to sell their sets to pay for part of the expenses of the convention.

Regardless, I hope that all that want it, get it. We as Joe fans need our Joes. Especially the A.R.A.H. stuff.

I agree with this 100%. I think the club should make these things available to as many people as possible. Preorders or whatever so they can get a good head count. I would've probably bought three sets.

BUT... the problem is that they stated a small edition size and let that sit there for a long time after sell-out. So many people (including myself) went out and purchased a set off eBay for a large markup, based on the fact that it was the only way to go. So now I've paid $500 for something that I will get and it will instantly be worth less than what I paid. There's no backing out now.

I could at least placate myself before while spending so much money by knowing that what I get will actually be worth more. But now I have been made into a fool because the club has (potentially) changed it's mind again.

I find a lot of things to defend the club about... but what they have done here is going to hurt some people (and of course help others). You can't state one thing and then pull the rug out at the last second.

You can't say that something is a hot limited edition and there won't be many, let people scramble to get them thinking they are getting something rare, sell out, and then say "Just kidding, here's some more that are exactly the same!" At most they should be offering bagged sets only so that there is something special about the originals. But we all know they don't profit as much off of those...

[Morgardee]

As I noted earlier, even if you double or triple the overall production levels of these sets, they would still be among the rarest Joe figures out there, and still quite "exclusive." That and nowhere does the Club make any guarantee of the Con sets raising in value or even keeping their original value. Limited/Exclusive or not, they're advertised as a toy, not an investment.

Nevermind the colossal waste of time and money that a class action lawsuit would be, the only interesting thing that might come out of it is that the court might have to subpoena Hasbro to release information about a "normal" production run so the court could show just how "limited" the product still is.

How do you figure it would be a "colossal waste of time and money"? I am part of an on going class action lawsuit right now over another matter not all toy related.

Many law firms will work for a percentage of the ruling, not costing you a dime in advance. There are many smaller lawyers that would love to take on a large company like Hasbro and believe me, Hasbro would be brought into a case like that.

I'm not the guy who is going to file a lawsuit over this. I'm just saying it's possible someone might, and they would have a very strong case in their favor if they did, assuming there was never a disclaimer made about production numbers are subject to change.

[Jmacq1]

I agree with this 100%. I think the club should make these things available to as many people as possible. Preorders or whatever so they can get a good head count. I would've probably bought three sets.

BUT... the problem is that they stated a small edition size and let that sit there for a long time after sell-out. So many people (including myself) went out and purchased a set off eBay for a large markup, based on the fact that it was the only way to go. So now I've paid $500 for something that I will get and it will instantly be worth less than what I paid. There's no backing out now.

I could at least placate myself before while spending so much money by knowing that what I get will actually be worth more. But now I have been made into a fool because the club has (potentially) changed it's mind again.

I find a lot of things to defend the club about... but what they have done here is going to hurt some people (and of course help others). You can't state one thing and then pull the rug out at the last second.

You can't say that something is a hot limited edition and there won't be many, let people scramble to get them thinking they are getting something rare, sell out, and then say "Just kidding, here's some more that are exactly the same!" At most they should be offering bagged sets only so that there is something special about the originals. But we all know they don't profit as much off of those...

You bring up a good point that I had not considered.

Therefore I amend my earlier statement:

The only people getting hurt by a few more of these getting produced are secondary market sellers and those individuals that have already shelled out big bucks to secondary market sellers to get one.

The latter is indeed unfortunate, though I would note again that it isn't likely that the set is going to drop below retail value, and honestly, if you were willing to shell out $500 bucks to have the set...are you honestly more concerned about value than simply owning the toys? Or were you spending that much money because it was worth it (to you) to own the set...in other words you wanted the toys that badly? Unless you were planning on a quick turnaround and selling it for $700 a week later, it's not really about resale value, is it?

Yes, it's annoying to have paid that much, but if the product was worth it to you then, it should still be worth it to you now.

[Jmacq1]

How do you figure it would be a "colossal waste of time and money"? I am part of an on going class action lawsuit right now over another matter not all toy related.

Many law firms will work for a percentage of the ruling, not costing you a dime in advance. There are many smaller lawyers that would love to take on a large company like Hasbro and believe me, Hasbro would be brought into a case like that.

I'm not the guy who is going to file a lawsuit over this. I'm just saying it's possible someone might, and they would have a very strong case in their favor if they did, assuming there was never a disclaimer made about production numbers are subject to change.

I say it's a "collossal waste of time and money" because generally the individual members of the "class" in a class action lawsuit ends up with a pittance while the vast bulk of the settlement ends up going to the Lawyers. Nobody gets rich off of class action lawsuits besides the lawyers, and if you're not even going to get the cost of your con set back, what's the point besides just "Sticking it to the Club (and probably destroying it in the process) because a few more people got the same little plastic men I did?"

Also, they wouldn't be taking on Hasbro. They'd be taking on Fun Publications, Inc. Considerably smaller and less well-heeled than Hasbro. Hasbro might get called as a witness but they wouldn't be shelling out any money on the case even if Fun Pub lost.

[Starfighter]

The issue being that if the "sell the extras" scenario is true, then he was presenting a false scenario. You don't harp on the point of "If you want the Convention set then go to the convention and the only way to get the con set should be to go to the convention!" point when in fact that's a flat-out lie and what you REALLY meant is "The only way you should get a Con set is if you go to the convention or buy it from someone who did (me) at whatever markup I/they decide to put on it!" (Again, this is if and only if Mongoose was planning on selling off his extras).

If you're selling off extras, then it's no longer "The Convention Attendees should be the only place they can be had!" You're defeating your own argument by becoming a purveyor of the product yourself. Even if you're just hooking up your Joe-buddies for cost + shipping, what makes your buddies any different from anyone else that didn't go to the Con beside the fact of being your buddy?

It's massive hypocrisy to call anyone "entitled" and then demand that a limited product only be limited to "me" simply because I have the money and opportunity to go to one particular convention. Nevermind that the Club has regularly offered "Homefront Hero" packages for years now. Were people bitching about those every single year when they WEREN'T selling out (answer: No)? Or is it only now when they realize they can get a fat profit from their extra sets because they're selling out so fast (answer: Yes)?

Hey, here's one for you: If the product is so "limited and exclusive" then you should be "limited" to only ONE. No extras, no golden tickets, no girlfriends buying another one for you, no bagged sets. After all, the important thing is the "exclusivity" right?

It should be only one per house hold for the members. That would have given the remaining people whom did not get a set a better chance.

However, the Club did set it's expectations that these will be limited and perhaps sold out before the convention. That is why many were constantly F5ing all day for nearly 3 weeks straight (4-weeks for the non-attendees). In some ways, using the SDCC lines as an example, that was our long line that we had to wait in hopes to getting a set.

Also, you have to understand that those who want to make a profit to off set their costs have every right to be upset as they mainly purchased the 2nd set to make a profit. With them announcing that they may make another run of these will only cut into that profit. Just think of what all of those people who already sold their stuff on eBay for example hoping that the buyers do not require a refund now in the chance perceived by the Club that they might be able to get it for cheaper.

Of course, I do not condone scalping, but in this hobby like every other, the second hand market determines their worth. People want things of value in their collection and by doing another run, will only diminish that. The importance of exclusivity is a major factor for some as they want a sense of pride and accomplishment pride in their collections. All hobbies have them. For example, Stamps, Cards, Cars, Action Figures, coins, etc...

[Mongoose]

The issue being that if the "sell the extras" scenario is true, then he was presenting a false scenario. You don't harp on the point of "If you want the Convention set then go to the convention and the only way to get the con set should be to go to the convention!" point when in fact that's a flat-out lie and what you REALLY meant is "The only way you should get a Con set is if you go to the convention or buy it from someone who did (me) at whatever markup I/they decide to put on it!" (Again, this is if and only if Mongoose was planning on selling off his extras, if any).

If you're selling off extras, then it's no longer "The Convention Attendees should be the only place they can be had!" You're defeating your own argument by becoming a purveyor of the product yourself. Even if you're just hooking up your Joe-buddies for cost + shipping, what makes your buddies any different from anyone else that didn't go to the Con beside the fact of being your buddy?

It's massive hypocrisy to call anyone "entitled" and then demand that a limited product only be limited to "me" simply because I have the money and opportunity to go to one particular convention. Nevermind that the Club has regularly offered "Homefront Hero" packages for years now. Were people bitching about those existing every single year when they WEREN'T selling out even through the Convention (answer: No)? Or is it only now when they realize they can get a fat profit from their extra sets because they're selling out so fast (answer: Yes)?

Hey, here's one for you: If the product is so "limited and exclusive" then you should be "limited" to only ONE. No extras, no golden tickets, no girlfriends buying another one for you, no bagged sets. After all, the important thing is the "exclusivity" right?

Everything is limited, the question is how much? The company that makes crock pots only makes so many of a production run. If I bought multiples of those and re-sold them, it wouldn't be an issue. If, in order to get a limited crock pot, I had to spend $800 to go to the crock pot con. then why not take advantage of the fact I can buy multiples there and possibly resell them?

Whether you resell these exclusive figures or not doesn't matter. The initial stock comes from ONE place. If that ONE place is a con, then the collector community shouldn't feel entitled to the product if they don't go to the con. SDCC doesn't have a Homefront Hero's option for the con exclusives. We should all feel lucky that the club has been offering it to us to begin with.

And yes, I DO plan on reselling some joe con product. Why? Because as I said, I'm spending about $800 just for the privilege of attending. If I spend another $200 on the con souvenirs, then that jumps to $1000. If someone wants to give me $800 for a full set on ebay, then they're still paying less than I have, and they didn't have to take off work, deal with airport security, etc. to get the stuff. Did I buy a golden ticket? No. Obviously I didn't plan on wiping the con stock out for my financial gain, but helping alleviate my costs is NOT a bad thing, and I sure as hell don't feel bad about that. Don't act all pompous about people reselling crap at a higher price for profit. It's called capitalism, and you'd do it too. If you bought a brick of gold 10 years ago and went to resell it today, you can't tell me you'd sell it at the gold price 10 years ago. You'd sell it for the gold price today. Gold is in high demand now, but you wouldn't call yourself a "scalper" for reselling the gold at a higher price. I'm not making anyone buy my stuff. If no one buys it, then oh well. Then I'll either keep it, or sell it later at a lower price when demand dies down.

The whole "I'm a member and I deserve the figures" is another argument I keep hearing. Well, if that's true, then as a member, you should be entitled to have the club ship you a plate of food from the casino night dinner. They should set up an internet classroom so you can take the customizing class from home. They should have someone stand at the parachute drop and try to grab a figure for you. The con is tailored to people who ATTEND. Since I'm spending so much cash to be there and have the opportunity to buy the stuff, why shouldn't I feel like the figures are an investment? Why shouldn't I feel a tad annoyed at the club possibly upping production runs? Yeah, it sucks if you can't attend, but once again, tough crap. As I said, I can't ever attend SDCC, so I ALWAYS end up paying inflated prices for the exclusives. That's the price I pay for NOT going to the con. That's the price I pay for choosing to allocate my money differently. Even though I'm the one buying the SDCC exclusives from a "scalper," I wouldn't want a re-run of the product because it lessens the value for those that DID attend.

[Jmacq1]

It should be only one per house hold for the members. That would have given the remaining people whom did not get a set a better chance.

However, the Club did set it's expectations that these will be limited and perhaps sold out before the convention. That is why many were constantly F5ing all day for nearly 3 weeks straight (4-weeks for the non-attendees). In some ways, using the SDCC lines as an example, that was our long line that we had to wait in hopes to getting a set.

Also, you have to understand that those who want to make a profit to off set their costs have every right to be upset as they mainly purchased the 2nd set to make a profit. With them announcing that they may make another run of these will only cut into that profit. Just think of what all of those people who already sold their stuff on eBay for example hoping that the buyers do not require a refund now in the chance perceived by the Club that they might be able to get it for cheaper.

Of course, I do not condone scalping, but in this hobby like every other, the second hand market determines their worth. People want things of value in their collection and by doing another run, will only diminish that. The importance of exclusivity is a major factor for some as they want a sense of pride and accomplishment pride in their collections. All hobbies have them. For example, Stamps, Cards, Cars, Action Figures, coins, etc...

Those that bought sets on eBay are out of luck if the transaction is done. They have no recourse as the transaction is done and legally binding, and the sellers are under no obligation to refund them because it's no fault of their own that extra sets might be made. So bravo to those that successfully pre-sold their extra sets on eBay. Now if it had been Fun Pub themselves selling those things on ebay at higher prices...then there'd be cause for refunds. Otherwise...folks paid what they felt the product was worth, there was never any guarantee that that value would stay constant.

Meanwhile, if you're in the toy collecting business so you can feel superior to folks that aren't as fortunate as to have garnered a limited product that you did, you're an asshole.

Seriously, you're honestly going to "take less pride" in your collection because a couple or three hundred more people (if even that many) than you initially expected happen to own the same 15 figures you do? That's ridiculous.

[Mongoose]

You bring up a good point that I had not considered.

Therefore I amend my earlier statement:

The only people getting hurt by a few more of these getting produced are secondary market sellers and those individuals that have already shelled out big bucks to secondary market sellers to get one.

The latter is indeed unfortunate, though I would note again that it isn't likely that the set is going to drop below retail value, and honestly, if you were willing to shell out $500 bucks to have the set...are you honestly more concerned about value than simply owning the toys? Or were you spending that much money because it was worth it (to you) to own the set...in other words you wanted the toys that badly? Unless you were planning on a quick turnaround and selling it for $700 a week later, it's not really about resale value, is it?

Yes, it's annoying to have paid that much, but if the product was worth it to you then, it should still be worth it to you now.

I completely agree with that. I've probably "overpaid" for a number of items in my collection, but it's because I place value in having it in my collection. I don't plan on ever reselling those items.

[aubades]

I don't think the matter should be about limiting availability to make it "special" or more "valuable" - it should be about people who love the hobby or the figures and would like to have some for their own.
I personally am not a member of the club, but I might very well join if I knew that I could be guaranteed to get this set at a reasonable price (not the after-market one. I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination.)
I've loved the concept of the Oktober Guard since they first hit the comic and would love to have these to display and enjoy in my own home.

[Air-tight]

You mean everyone that will buy one? I'm not filling it out because I would not buy a 2nd boxed set. They'll be left with a ton of sets if we all just filled out the form and then didn't buy the set.

Naturally, that's what I meant. I wouldn't want them to go through all that effort for nothing.

[Lantern_Lad]

Is there serious conversation about lawsuits over this? Or is that just speculation?

I recall a certain SNL skit involving William Shatner many years ago which culminated with: "Get a Life"

Everything here is speculation, if it happens, cool, if not, so what? I used to go to SDCC every year... wait in the long ass lines for exclusives. Then things would be sold online later... some easier to obtain than others, but I never got my panties out of joint because of it. I couldn't go to the convention because I have NO vacation time thank to, thank God, a new job. I didn't get a chance to order the set because it sold out so fast. I like the thought that maybe I'll get a second chance!

If I don't, then oh-well... but the thought that a lawsuit could come into play... jesus christ, there are some serious entitlement issues going on in the collector world. They're 3.75" pieces of plastic for fucks sake.

[Starfighter]

I don't think the matter should be about limiting availability to make it "special" or more "valuable" - it should be about people who love the hobby or the figures and would like to have some for their own.
I personally am not a member of the club, but I might very well join if I knew that I could be guaranteed to get this set at a reasonable price (not the after-market one. I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination.)
I've loved the concept of the Oktober Guard since they first hit the comic and would love to have these to display and enjoy in my own home.

This is where the Club has done wrong. If the Club wanted to gauge how many sets to make. They should have offered the set details at the time of the Membership deadline (March 15) and polled all members on why they joined by asking if it was because of the set or the yearly figure or both. The Club has lost a lot of potential members because it like to keep everyone clueless until one or 2 months before the club starts. They should have campaigned a lot earlier to get interest out there.

[Airborne1]

I don't understand why it would be so hard to get hasbro to approve more sets. It is more money for them and more Joes for us. I got home from work about 3 or 4 hours after the email was sent out and it was to late so I beg anyone who is listening to please make more. I am a member and I will buy one for sure. I got last years Mission Brazil set luckily but I don't know why they don't make more of them either. They would sell out all over again. Make more Joes. How hard is it really.

[shawnspookcity]

I hate when people cry about the make-believe costs of an exclusive. You can't include your airfare, hotel, etc in the cost of it because that is the cost of GOING ON A VACATION AND BEING ABLE TO ATTEND THE CONVENTION!

When my best friend goes to Hawaii every year and I ask him to get me a certain type of pineapple, he charges me the $4 it cost him, not $1504 because it was $4 plus $1500 for plane tickets and hotel. Why? Because A) it's ridiculous and B) I didn't get the pleasure of chilling out in Hawaii for a week.

It's your right to sell your toys for whatever you want, but if Hasbro OK's it, it's the club's right to make more.

I attend SDCC every year. I don't go in order to get exclusives. That's dumb. Do I get them while I'm there? Of course. But I go because I really enjoy the con and have a blast not being at work for a week and chilling in San Diego enjoying the ocean and the lovely weather. If I happen to get 8 of each Sgt Slaughters and sell them, that's just gravy. But I don't cry that Hasbrotoyshop is wrong for offering exclusives the monday after the convention.

[Mapleleaf]

I think in the wake of the sell out for this years set it a nice gesture to make more sets. Naturally these are con exclusives mainly for those attending but what about something like this as a compromise. What about adding these figures to possible future lists for the subscription service? I'm not saying make an entire list of say Oktober Guard or Iron Grenadiers and certainly not have them appear year after year but maybe have one slot for example given to Horror Show then maybe in 3 years bring out Voltar. This way the club can perhaps keep the FSS going having characters that were apart of a successful set yet still keep the sets value as an exclusive intact. It would also allow fans who couldn't get these as a non-attendee package a chance to add them to their collections. Just a thought.

[shawnspookcity]

With that said, I'd love a bagged set from someone of the GI Joe con exclusives. I'll gladly work out the financials and help you with SDCC exclusives.

[Jmacq1]

Everything is limited, the question is how much? The company that makes crock pots only makes so many of a production run. If I bought multiples of those and re-sold them, it wouldn't be an issue. If, in order to get a limited crock pot, I had to spend $800 to go to the crock pot con. then why not take advantage of the fact I can buy multiples there and possibly resell them?

Allow me to be clear: I don't have a problem in principle with people reselling their Con sets. I've done the same thing in the past. I just take issue with the notion of "You shouldn't ever be able to get it ever unless you go to the Con! (Or buy it from me!)" mentality. As stated earlier, there's no guarantee that the con sets are going to go up in value or that you're going to be able to sell them for a profit. Yes, it's a safe assumption that they probably will and you probably can, but it's not a guarantee.

Whether you resell these exclusive figures or not doesn't matter. The initial stock comes from ONE place. If that ONE place is a con, then the collector community shouldn't feel entitled to the product if they don't go to the con. SDCC doesn't have a Homefront Hero's option for the con exclusives. We should all feel lucky that the club has been offering it to us to begin with.

Actually, most SDCC exclusives are available online for retail + shipping to various degrees after the con. Some are harder to get than others, most certainly, but there is a "non attendee" option that doesn't involve inflated prices in most cases, especially when it comes to the "big company" exclusives (Hasbro and Mattel).

And yes, I DO plan on reselling some joe con product. Why? Because as I said, I'm spending about $800 just for the privilege of attending. If I spend another $200 on the con souvenirs, then that jumps to $1000. If someone wants to give me $800 for a full set on ebay, then they're still paying less than I have, and they didn't have to take off work, deal with airport security, etc. to get the stuff. Did I buy a golden ticket? No. Obviously I didn't plan on wiping the con stock out for my financial gain, but helping alleviate my costs is NOT a bad thing, and I sure as hell don't feel bad about that. Don't act all pompous about people reselling crap at a higher price for profit. It's called capitalism, and you'd do it too. If you bought a brick of gold 10 years ago and went to resell it today, you can't tell me you'd sell it at the gold price 10 years ago. You'd sell it for the gold price today. Gold is in high demand now, but you wouldn't call yourself a "scalper" for reselling the gold at a higher price. I'm not making anyone buy my stuff. If no one buys it, then oh well. Then I'll either keep it, or sell it later at a lower price when demand dies down.

But once again you're presenting a hypocritical stance (and we're not talking about gold). You claim the product should be limited to con-goers because they're putting forth the money and effort to go to the Con. But if you can't afford to go to the Con or are paying for it by reselling your limited product, then you're defeating your own point. You talk about how much money you're shelling out for the Con, but if you're making it up in resales, then money isn't the issue and it really boils down to: "I deserve the Con Sets because my job/life responsibilities will let me take vacation during that time period, and if yours doesn't, tough titties! Guess you should go job hunting in this miserable economy if you wanted them that badly!" I posit once more: If it's about "exclusivity" then it should be one per household, period. You agree, right?

Except you don't. Just like you say "Con attendees ONLY!" but don't really mean it when you mean "Con attendees ONLY (and those willing to buy from me after the show!)" The people buying from you didn't go to the Con...why do they rate? Just be honest with what your position is (which you now have been). It isn't about exclusivity...it's about resale value.

The whole "I'm a member and I deserve the figures" is another argument I keep hearing. Well, if that's true, then as a member, you should be entitled to have the club ship you a plate of food from the casino night dinner. They should set up an internet classroom so you can take the customizing class from home. They should have someone stand at the parachute drop and try to grab a figure for you. The con is tailored to people who ATTEND. Since I'm spending so much cash to be there and have the opportunity to buy the stuff, why shouldn't I feel like the figures are an investment? Why shouldn't I feel a tad annoyed at the club possibly upping production runs? Yeah, it sucks if you can't attend, but once again, tough crap. As I said, I can't ever attend SDCC, so I ALWAYS end up paying inflated prices for the exclusives. That's the price I pay for NOT going to the con. That's the price I pay for choosing to allocate my money differently. Even though I'm the one buying the SDCC exclusives from a "scalper," I wouldn't want a re-run of the product because it lessens the value for those that DID attend.

Attendees still get access to the multitude of exclusives that are ONLY available at the Con. There's still plenty of room for profit even if the main "Con set" gets some extra production (unlike SDCC exclusives, Joe-Con exclusives don't go online for retail price unless they fail to sell out at the Con). I can understand being a little annoyed, but honestly it really should be far from any kind of "deal breaker." At worst you would still be likely able to break even on the Con sets, and quite likely they'll still end up selling for above retail value because it isn't like the Club's going to print off another few thousand of these things.

That, and I never used the "I'm a member so I deserve it" argument, though I suppose that probably wasn't directed at me personally.

[Mongoose]

I posit once more: If it's about "exclusivity" then it should be one per household, period. You agree, right?


I can't argue with that. If I could only buy one, then I would, and I'd be happy about it. The same issue always happens with SDCC where one individual or dealer ends up with 20 Starscreams or Zaranas.

[ergozoom]

Therefore I amend my earlier statement:

The only people getting hurt by a few more of these getting produced are secondary market sellers and those individuals that have already shelled out big bucks to secondary market sellers to get one.

The latter is indeed unfortunate, though I would note again that it isn't likely that the set is going to drop below retail value, and honestly, if you were willing to shell out $500 bucks to have the set...are you honestly more concerned about value than simply owning the toys? Or were you spending that much money because it was worth it (to you) to own the set...in other words you wanted the toys that badly? Unless you were planning on a quick turnaround and selling it for $700 a week later, it's not really about resale value, is it?

Yes, it's annoying to have paid that much, but if the product was worth it to you then, it should still be worth it to you now.
Hmmm... I think "annoying" is a little mild for spending $700 instead of $375. If I pay $3.90/gallon for gas and then drive down the street and see it for $3.80/gallon, that's annoying. The gas was still worth it to me at the more-expensive price, but it's annoying that I paid an extra dollar overall.

If I'm told there is a limited number of a product and the only way to get the product is to pay a huge premium on the secondary market, I'll bite the bullet and do that. I'd be more than a bit upset if a week later someone tells me, "Just kidding! You can get it at the cheaper price again."

In normal markets that's fine, but the GIJCC publishes the edition numbers of their con exclusives for a reason, and I think it's to show just how exclusive their stuff is (which adds to the value). If they release more OG sets, those numbers will never mean anything again.

[nighthawk]

I wish I could get it but I can't afford to buy it. :( If anyone is getting extras for the Iron Grenadiers and doesn't need an extra Voltar or Oktober Guards, please let me know. Thanks! :)

[Morgardee]

I say it's a "collossal waste of time and money" because generally the individual members of the "class" in a class action lawsuit ends up with a pittance while the vast bulk of the settlement ends up going to the Lawyers. Nobody gets rich off of class action lawsuits besides the lawyers, and if you're not even going to get the cost of your con set back, what's the point besides just "Sticking it to the Club (and probably destroying it in the process) because a few more people got the same little plastic men I did?"

Also, they wouldn't be taking on Hasbro. They'd be taking on Fun Publications, Inc. Considerably smaller and less well-heeled than Hasbro. Hasbro might get called as a witness but they wouldn't be shelling out any money on the case even if Fun Pub lost.

Based off what I've been involved with in Canadian law, your assumptions are incorrect. My wife had a lawsuit several years ago and the lawyer charged 40%. We were young and did not realize we overpaid at the time.

The current lawsuit I'm part of the lawyers firm is taking 30%.

You do have the option to pay an hourly rate up front, but most people don't do that.

[Mongoose]

Hmmm... I think "annoying" is a little mild for spending $700 instead of $375. If I pay $3.90/gallon for gas and then drive down the street and see it for $3.80/gallon, that's annoying. The gas was still worth it to me at the more-expensive price, but it's annoying that I paid an extra dollar overall.

If I'm told there is a limited number of a product and the only way to get the product is to pay a huge premium on the secondary market, I'll bite the bullet and do that. I'd be more than a bit upset if a week later someone tells me, "Just kidding! You can get it at the cheaper price again."

In normal markets that's fine, but the GIJCC publishes the edition numbers of their con exclusives for a reason, and I think it's to show just how exclusive their stuff is (which adds to the value). If they release more OG sets, those numbers will never mean anything again.

Right. this is why I think doing a second run is stupid.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying the club shouldn't offer sets to non-attendee members. I would LOVE to see everyone who wants a set get one, BUT this means producing enough in the 1st run. The club then runs the risk of over-producing and losing money. The club needs to find a way to gauge interest in a set before setting their final production run.

By producing a second run, you can hurt those members who were planning to resell to recoup costs as well as those who have already paid more on eBay.

This is just an example of the club trying to fix things and smooth over the collector community after the horribly miscalculated the demand for this set. hopefully they learn from this and handle things better next year.

[Zoomie2001]

If I don't, then oh-well... but the thought that a lawsuit could come into play... jesus christ, there are some serious entitlement issues going on in the collector world. They're 3.75" pieces of plastic for fucks sake.

Entitlement 101. I think Robert Burns said it best:

"The best laid schemes of mice and men
Go often awry,
And leave us nothing but grief and pain,
For promised joy!"

If you're getting so butt-hurt and thinking of suing over little plastic men and their market value, maybe you need to re-evaluate why you're collecting Joes.

[CrimsonGuard101]

Hmmm... I think "annoying" is a little mild for spending $700 instead of $375. If I pay $3.90/gallon for gas and then drive down the street and see it for $3.80/gallon, that's annoying. The gas was still worth it to me at the more-expensive price, but it's annoying that I paid an extra dollar overall.

If I'm told there is a limited number of a product and the only way to get the product is to pay a huge premium on the secondary market, I'll bite the bullet and do that. I'd be more than a bit upset if a week later someone tells me, "Just kidding! You can get it at the cheaper price again."

In normal markets that's fine, but the GIJCC publishes the edition numbers of their con exclusives for a reason, and I think it's to show just how exclusive their stuff is (which adds to the value). If they release more OG sets, those numbers will never mean anything again.

Then wait a bit before doing that. Paying $700 before they are released on pre-sale is asking for trouble. Had you waited a few days more you wouldn't have pulled that trigger and had a potential shot at buying it for less if this re-release makes it. In either case if it doesn't materialize you could spend that same $700 (or more depending on how the trip scalpers want to recoup thier vacation splurge to justify the trip) a few days after the con when all of them immedialtey appear on ebay.

[07GT500 COBRA]

I like the idea of having FSS versions of box set figures. I'd love to add individual Oktober Guard figures MOC with some kick ass character art to my collection.

[07GT500 COBRA]

BTW, can we get another run of MOC Dial-Tones while we're at it?

[Zoomie2001]

Based off what I've been involved with in Canadian law, your assumptions are incorrect. My wife had a lawsuit several years ago and the lawyer charged 40%. We were young and did not realize we overpaid at the time.

The current lawsuit I'm part of the lawyers firm is taking 30%.

You do have the option to pay an hourly rate up front, but most people don't do that.

Let's do some math because math is fun.

If you have 70 people in your class action lawsuit, and the lawyer takes 30%, then each other person in the lawsuit makes 1% of the total arbitrated/settled amount. And these things never go to trial. They are almost arbitrated or settled.

The lawyer always makes more than the clients. Always.

[Lantern_Lad]

Entitlement 101. I think Robert Burns said it best:

"The best laid schemes of mice and men
Go often awry,
And leave us nothing but grief and pain,
For promised joy!"

If you're getting so butt-hurt and thinking of suing over little plastic men and their market value, maybe you need to re-evaluate why you're collecting Joes.

Well said Zoomie... the elitism and entitlement in the Joe collector world right now is ridiculous. If I were in charge at Hasbro (thank God I'm not) and reading these veiled threats and whiny rants, I'd say screw all of you... and put the line on a real hiatus for a while.

[Mainframe]

Everyone should chill out and watch the food network. Jesus people get over it.

[CrimsonGuard101]

BTW, can we get another run of MOC Dial-Tones while we're at it?

Yeah this would be awesome! get extras of all the figs you want, like long coat IGs or several Wetsuits from last years set. Either through the FSS or through the club store. They should be putting all sorts of figure orders through the store up and just Hasbro on board with that idea since retail can't and wont offer it anymore. Could redo POC figures that were rare, like Renegades Storm Shadow and all sorts of options.

[Lantern_Lad]

Everyone should chill out and watch the food network. Jesus people get over it.

They'd just bitch that Giada's smile is too big and that her teeth are too white & straight.

They are freakishly perfect...

[RolandofGilead]

Yeah this would be awesome! get extras of all the figs you want, like long coat IGs or several Wetsuits from last years set. Either through the FSS or through the club store. They should be putting all sorts of figure orders through the store up and just Hasbro on board with that idea since retail can't and wont offer it anymore. Could redo POC figures that were rare, like Renegades Storm Shadow and all sorts of options.

Am I not supposed to think this is a great idea?

It's never going to happen, but it would be pretty awesome if it did.

[dorian247]

I'm sorry, but I don't like this. It's just a cash grab. Especially if it's only the Oktober Guard. I pay $345 plus travel, plus lodging, plus incidentals to support the con and the club. Then someone else gets to get one for less than half after they bitch, whine and namecall the club. That is rather messed up.

Also, if they just decide to up the numbers, how does that effect the exclusive run of 600. Everyone had a choice, just some didn't pull the trigger, and now they get a reprieve.

I was traveling when they went on sale. By the time my flight landed and I was able to check it was all sold out. However I know I am in the minority. I can see it from both sides, more figures in the hands of more fans isnt a bad thing though either way.

[ergozoom]

Then wait a bit before doing that. Paying $700 before they are released on pre-sale is asking for trouble. Had you waited a few days more you wouldn't have pulled that trigger and had a potential shot at buying it for less if this re-release makes it. In either case if it doesn't materialize you could spend that same $700 (or more depending on how the trip scalpers want to recoup thier vacation splurge to justify the trip) a few days after the con when all of them immedialtey appear on ebay.
Like anything of value, predicting the market is not an easy thing to do. Sometimes buying the first pieces on the secondary market winds up better in the long run (E.g., the people that preordered a TTT Sarge for $50-$100 wound up happy with their purchase, I'm sure). That being said, I agree buying early is usually a bad idea.

FYI, I was able to get a Homefront Hero boxed set when the Club put them up, so the scenario I described doesn't apply to me. I was just talking general principles of economics.
I like the idea of having FSS versions of box set figures. I'd love to add individual Oktober Guard figures MOC with some kick ass character art to my collection.
This is a good idea. I suspect the Club could do well catering to the MOC collectors in general. I'm guessing a lot of people would pay $25 for Airtight, Lifeline, Low-Light, etc., on vintage-style card art.

[Starfighter]

I hate when people cry about the make-believe costs of an exclusive. You can't include your airfare, hotel, etc in the cost of it because that is the cost of GOING ON A VACATION AND BEING ABLE TO ATTEND THE CONVENTION!

When my best friend goes to Hawaii every year and I ask him to get me a certain type of pineapple, he charges me the $4 it cost him, not $1504 because it was $4 plus $1500 for plane tickets and hotel. Why? Because A) it's ridiculous and B) I didn't get the pleasure of chilling out in Hawaii for a week.

It's your right to sell your toys for whatever you want, but if Hasbro OK's it, it's the club's right to make more.

I attend SDCC every year. I don't go in order to get exclusives. That's dumb. Do I get them while I'm there? Of course. But I go because I really enjoy the con and have a blast not being at work for a week and chilling in San Diego enjoying the ocean and the lovely weather. If I happen to get 8 of each Sgt Slaughters and sell them, that's just gravy. But I don't cry that Hasbrotoyshop is wrong for offering exclusives the monday after the convention.

The actual worth of these exclusives is between $600-$800 currently on the secondhand market. That is what they are selling for. That is not make believe. So in that case, if someone sells a set for $600 and it costs them $850 (that is including the $345 for the Convention Boxed set) to go to the convention, they are only paying $250 to go and experience the con. So in effect, it is offsetting their cost.

[CrimsonGuard101]

The actual worth of these exclusives is between $600-$800 currently on the secondhand market. That is what they are selling for. That is not make believe. So in that case, if someone sells a set for $600 and it costs them $850 (that is including the $345 for the Convention Boxed set) to go to the convention, they are only paying $250 to go and experience the con. So in effect, it is offsetting their cost.

And should not be the only reason to go to the con just to pay for the trip, that is like totally the wrong reason and ends up hurting a lot of fans who cant get the items, especially when they should be releases in a main line. The continued inflation with these toys is driving a mentality that they will keep increasing in value when in reality they wont. Look at this way in 50 years...whose gunna care? lol...the younger generations and especially todays kids and the next few generatiosn after them will not even buy this crap like we do today...once the 80s toy "collect them all!" brainwashed minds go extinct...so will be Gi Joe..and the "perceived" short term value of these "exclusives"...

[dorian247]

I feel that if anyone needs to count on the money from selling exclusives to supplement the cost of going to a convention than honestly maybe its not financially responsible to attend the convention in the first place.

That being said I am not referring to individuals that do this as a business. I am referring to the convention attendee looking to make a quick buck.

[Morgardee]

Let's do some math because math is fun.

If you have 70 people in your class action lawsuit, and the lawyer takes 30%, then each other person in the lawsuit makes 1% of the total arbitrated/settled amount. And these things never go to trial. They are almost arbitrated or settled.

The lawyer always makes more than the clients. Always.

No, the lawyer does NOT always make more money. Period. The lawyer takes 30% of the settlement which includes true value, LEGAL FEES, and any other loss that can be justified. I don't see "pain and suffering" being included but it could be argued in favor people who have had to take time off work PLUS travel expenses. Then the remainder of the ruling is split among all in the class action suit. You don't even have to be registered at the time of the law suit to be able to reap the rewards or the ruling.

For the sake of this example I am going to make some assumptions on value. Lets say each of the Oktober Guard and Voltar figures value on the second hand market is $50 a piece and $25 for the army builders. That would value the set @ $500 on the second hand market and I am using LOW numbers. The value would be assigned by watching the market like Ebay, on line retailers and asking third party professionals.

Then take the current production numbers, that is 950 sets in you included bagged and boxed sets. 950 X 500 = 475000 second hand value. The original costs are $207,000 for 600 box sets and $68,250 for a total of $275,250. You are now looking at a class action lawsuit for $199,750 for just the toys alone, not including legal fees, travel, etc...

Many smaller law firms would jump at a chance for $200,000 and a large company like Hasbro being related.

Again, I have no desire to file a law suit. I'm not going to do it. I'm just point out the options.

[bluesparrow]

Yeah there's definitely a speculator bubble in the Joe aftermarket for con stuff. Expecting the aftermarket value of a con item to pay for your vacation is dangerous and stupid. One unpopular set and a lot of people are going to be stuck with lingering $850 buy-it-nows for Con sets and unpaid credit card bills.

[Starfighter]

And should not be the only reason to go to the con just to pay for the trip, that is like totally the wrong reason and ends up hurting a lot of fans who cant get the items, especially when they should be releases in a main line. The continued inflation with these toys is driving a mentality that they will keep increasing in value when in reality they wont. Look at this way in 50 years...whose gunna care? lol...the younger generations and especially todays kids and the next few generatiosn after them will not even buy this crap like we do today...once the 80s toy "collect them all!" brainwashed minds go extinct...so will be Gi Joe..and the "perceived" short term value of these "exclusives"...

Why not? That is a perfect reason to purchase an extra set. As it is more affordable to go to the con. It will cost them less money in the long run. In this case, your argument holds no water. Not to offend you or anyone else, just a general blanket statement in that if anyone cannot see this point clearly, then you must not be really smart. The reason to purchase an extra set is to save money in the long run. I don't know if you are upset with the Club or upset with not getting this set, but your logic is not ideal in the fact that the convention set is worth money? When something is worth money, people want to either covet it or cash in. That goes with everything of value.

[Starfighter]

I feel that if anyone needs to count on the money from selling exclusives to supplement the cost of going to a convention than honestly maybe its not financially responsible to attend the convention in the first place.

That being said I am not referring to individuals that do this as a business. I am referring to the convention attendee looking to make a quick buck.

WHY? Is there a problem with saving money? Would it not be smarter to save money?

[bluesparrow]

your logic is not ideal in the fact that the convention set is worth money? When something is worth money, people want to either covet it or cash in.

They're *not* worth money. That's the whole point. It's all financial speculation. These have no intrinsic value, the gold analogy is poor because there's a finite limit to gold, and it has real use and real demand. Con sets have value because the demand outweighs the supply by a slim margin. The limited supply is wholly artificial and set by the Club.

People will pay a certain premium now but that won't continue forever. There will be a tipping point eventually where there are more people selling than buying, and the bottom will drop out.

[Starfighter]

Yeah there's definitely a speculator bubble in the Joe aftermarket for con stuff. Expecting the aftermarket value of a con item to pay for your vacation is dangerous and stupid. One unpopular set and a lot of people are going to be stuck with lingering $850 buy-it-nows for Con sets and unpaid credit card bills.

I don't think anyone is expecting for it to pay for the entire trip of the con. I think that people want to sell so that it reduces the total costs. If they sell their stuff for a $100 profit, then that reduces their trip by $100. People go to the cons for various reasons. Many for just the figures, some for the product showcase and sales floor, and some to meet other people. I don't think that there is anyone expecting for the figures to pay for their entire trip, otherwise, you would see these sets sell for way more than what they sell for on eBay at $600 to $800 a set.

[Starfighter]

They're *not* worth money. That's the whole point. It's all financial speculation. These have no intrinsic value, the gold analogy is poor because there's a finite limit to gold, and it has real use and real demand. Con sets have value because the demand outweighs the supply by a slim margin. The limited supply is wholly artificial and set by the Club.

People will pay a certain premium now but that won't continue forever. There will be a tipping point eventually where there are more people selling than buying, and the bottom will drop out.

The set is worth money. That is a fact. Prove it wrong. When something is worth money, you either covet it or sell it for a profit. Just because it is a piece of plastic and a toy, does not mean that it is worthless. Right now, the Set is doubling and may triple in price from the MRSP. That is hotter than gold for such a turn around time. That is another fact. Thankfully, we have a Club that limits the sets to one Boxed and one Bagged set per person so that scalpers do not abuse it.

[bluesparrow]

The set is worth money. That is a fact. Prove it wrong. When something is worth money, you either covet it or sell it for a profit.

Would you like to buy a copy of Valiant Comic's Turok #1 with the variant cover? That was "worth money" at one point too. My comic store at the time was selling them for $50 a pop. Here's a current BIN:

Turok Dinosaur Hunter #1 Valiant Comic Book (7/1993) Foil Embossed Cover - $3.50 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Turok-Dinosaur-Hunter-1-Valiant-Comic-Book-7-1993-Foil-Embossed-Cover-3-50-/230816556484?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item35bdbd25c4#ht_971wt_1025)

There are things that have intrinsic value, like gold, and then there are things with speculator-fueled "value" like Turok #1 and Joe Con sets. Just because you can sell something at a high price to someone once upon a time doesn't mean that price is the value.

[Starfighter]

Would you like to buy a copy of Valiant Comic's Turok #1 with the variant cover? That was "worth money" at one point too. My comic store at the time was selling them for $50 a pop. Here's a current BIN:

Turok Dinosaur Hunter #1 Valiant Comic Book (7/1993) Foil Embossed Cover - $3.50 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Turok-Dinosaur-Hunter-1-Valiant-Comic-Book-7-1993-Foil-Embossed-Cover-3-50-/230816556484?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item35bdbd25c4#ht_971wt_1025)

There are things that have intrinsic value, like gold, and then there are things with speculator-fueled "value" like Turok #1 and Joe Con sets. Just because you can sell something at a high price to someone sometime doesn't mean that price is the value.

Yes, at one point it was. But not now. The fact is that these sets are worth more than their MSRP. I do not condone Scalperism, but am just stating the facts. I hate having to pay more than a select few as well, but sadly, the facts are that many will take advantage and only sell at a larger profit. Ihow can you not see the instand profit of these things and why are you comparing it to something down the road when in fact, we are in the now while it is hot and has not cooled off. If you sold the Turok #1 for example while it was hot, then you would be happy. Just like stocks, just like oil and any business trying to cash in to make a profit. They do not want it setting around to lose value.

Personally, I would love to get a Rowdy Roddy Piper for at least $75. Do you have one to sell me for that price as it is just a piece of plastic and is only a toy that will lose money in the long run. Why isn't the Club reissuing more of those?

You can have your "I will wait for Ross mentality" and maybe lose out, but if you want it now, unfortunately you will have to pay the prices that the market is asking. The collector's market. If you are lucky, a friend will get you a set. I do not know if you already have a set or not, but I am just stating the facts that they are currently worth more then their MSRP. If I knew that they would be worth less, then of course I will wait, but the thing is that I do not know and do not want to wait that long.

[Mongoose]

And should not be the only reason to go to the con just to pay for the trip, that is like totally the wrong reason and ends up hurting a lot of fans who cant get the items, especially when they should be releases in a main line.

What? No one ever said they go to the con just to pay for the trip. I go to the con to personally obtain the hard-to-get exclusives as well as taking a mini vacation. BUT, if the club will sell me another set or two, what's wrong with reselling them at their perceived value?

If you were on vacation, and some random dude offered to pay you $100 for a $20 book you have multiples of, you'd sell it! That doesn't make you a book scalper, and it doesn't "hurt the book industry."

Here's the thing, a lot of these con exclusive items WOULDN'T sell in a main line in enough quantities to justify production. And how I am "hurting" other fans? The club made a set amount, and that amount was too low. The club may be hurting fans by not producing enough, but how am I by trying to alleviate the enormous cost I have to pay to go to the con?

[jediz]

I love this, human nature in all of it's many faces.

1. the ones on the inside (I got mine!), crying foul
2. the ones on the outside (missed out), happy for even a glimmer of hope
3. The instigators (not gonna buy anyway), stirring the pot, complaining on both sides because it looks fun.

You would think everyone would be happy that there is a chance that more people could buy this set.

[Xenos]

Would you like to buy a copy of Valiant Comic's Turok #1 with the variant cover? That was "worth money" at one point too. My comic store at the time was selling them for $50 a pop. Here's a current BIN:

Turok Dinosaur Hunter #1 Valiant Comic Book (7/1993) Foil Embossed Cover - $3.50 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Turok-Dinosaur-Hunter-1-Valiant-Comic-Book-7-1993-Foil-Embossed-Cover-3-50-/230816556484?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item35bdbd25c4#ht_971wt_1025)

There are things that have intrinsic value, like gold, and then there are things with speculator-fueled "value" like Turok #1 and Joe Con sets. Just because you can sell something at a high price to someone once upon a time doesn't mean that price is the value.

So are you saying that every share of Lehman Brothers stock that was ever sold actually wasn't worth money? It's worthless today, but that doesn't mean that when it was a hot stock that it wasn't worth money.
How long does something have to be in demand before it's actually worth money in your eyes?

[krisk]

This is where the Club has done wrong. If the Club wanted to gauge how many sets to make. They should have offered the set details at the time of the Membership deadline (March 15) and polled all members on why they joined by asking if it was because of the set or the yearly figure or both. The Club has lost a lot of potential members because it like to keep everyone clueless until one or 2 months before the club starts. They should have campaigned a lot earlier to get interest out there.
And really why bother with all the secrecy anyway? It seems to me that if they did a preorder system with a NON-refundable fee, $125, that would allow people to preorder and would make them stick to getting the set.

Am I not supposed to think this is a great idea?

It's never going to happen, but it would be pretty awesome if it did.
Slight changes and everyone that collects the con sets would want the carded figs as well!

The actual worth of these exclusives is between $600-$800 currently on the secondhand market. That is what they are selling for. That is not make believe. So in that case, if someone sells a set for $600 and it costs them $850 (that is including the $345 for the Convention Boxed set) to go to the convention, they are only paying $250 to go and experience the con. So in effect, it is offsetting their cost.

And should not be the only reason to go to the con just to pay for the trip, that is like totally the wrong reason and ends up hurting a lot of fans who cant get the items, especially when they should be releases in a main line. The continued inflation with these toys is driving a mentality that they will keep increasing in value when in reality they wont. Look at this way in 50 years...whose gunna care? lol...the younger generations and especially todays kids and the next few generatiosn after them will not even buy this crap like we do today...once the 80s toy "collect them all!" brainwashed minds go extinct...so will be Gi Joe..and the "perceived" short term value of these "exclusives"...

In response to these two:
What about the Golden Ticket buyers......I have spoken to several and they ALL have said they are going to resell their extras and keep a set to themselves. Now granted thats only about 12 guys, but I wonder how many more of the 75 are doing that, it wouldnt be much of a stretch of imagination to suspect they are ALL reselling the product. The only benefit I can see of the Golden Ticket is for resellers and maybe one or 3 hoarders. Yes I know its just for the Con exclusives, but let think of this; if 40 of the Golden Ticket holders are pure scalpers and plan on making every penny they can, then thats prolly 80 sets(40 boxed and 40 bagged) that are gone for resellers.

[CrimsonGuard101]

Why not? That is a perfect reason to purchase an extra set. As it is more affordable to go to the con. It will cost them less money in the long run. In this case, your argument holds no water. Not to offend you or anyone else, just a general blanket statement in that if anyone cannot see this point clearly, then you must not be really smart. The reason to purchase an extra set is to save money in the long run. I don't know if you are upset with the Club or upset with not getting this set, but your logic is not ideal in the fact that the convention set is worth money? When something is worth money, people want to either covet it or cash in. That goes with everything of value.

Your perception of my intelligence is not warranted nor required, I am smart enough not to pay scalper prices and to fuel the mentality that is ok to rip off your fellow histtankers and collectors to pay for an overly inflated trip to go to some convention. Thats just plane moronic...again I would be happy to give them $50-$80 tip for their assistance to pick up an extra set...but paying them $1500+ just so they can justify the trip to the wife...no way in hell...

[Starfighter]

I love this, human nature in all of it's many faces.

1. the ones on the inside (I got mine!), crying foul
2. the ones on the outside (missed out), happy for even a glimmer of hope
3. The instigators (not gonna buy anyway), stirring the pot, complaining on both sides because it looks fun.

You would think everyone would be happy that there is a chance that more people could buy this set.

This is the way it is every single year in all hobbies. Not just G.I. Joe.

BTW, I see that you are from Oklahoma and have asked multiple times on this forum if anyone close wanted to drive to the con to offset the costs, but haven't heard anything. I assume that you are not going so this is not directly at you but for everyone. I am driving with a fellow collector so that it will make the trip faster, but it is not like I did not offer to those around me in Oklahoma and in North Texas. Perhaps next year for anyone interested, we can make a road-trip to help offset the costs.

[Mongoose]

Would you like to buy a copy of Valiant Comic's Turok #1 with the variant cover? That was "worth money" at one point too. My comic store at the time was selling them for $50 a pop. Here's a current BIN:

Turok Dinosaur Hunter #1 Valiant Comic Book (7/1993) Foil Embossed Cover - $3.50 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Turok-Dinosaur-Hunter-1-Valiant-Comic-Book-7-1993-Foil-Embossed-Cover-3-50-/230816556484?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item35bdbd25c4#ht_971wt_1025)

There are things that have intrinsic value, like gold, and then there are things with speculator-fueled "value" like Turok #1 and Joe Con sets. Just because you can sell something at a high price to someone once upon a time doesn't mean that price is the value.

Look up the definition of the noun Worth. If these OG figs are being sold on eBay for $80 each, then that is what they are currently WORTH. Yeah, maybe they won't be in 10 years, but arguing that these figs aren't worth what they're selling for is ignoring the the definition of the word completely. Discussions go a lot smoother when people know what they're talking about.

[Starfighter]

Your perception of my intelligence is not warranted nor required, I am smart enough not to pay scalper prices and to fuel the mentality that is ok to rip off your fellow histtankers and collectors to pay for an overly inflated trip to go to some convention. Thats just plane moronic...again I would be happy to give them $50-$80 tip for their assistance to pick up an extra set...but paying them $1500+ just so they can justify the trip to the wife...no way in hell...

As clearly stated, I am not directing anything at you at all. I do not care to argue nor get into internet fights. I am just trying to speak on a different point of view. I have nothing against you at all. I do not even know you. You could be a very cool person, but this is an internet message board and I am just giving my opinions and clearly, they differ from yours.

[Starfighter]

Your perception of my intelligence is not warranted nor required, I am smart enough not to pay scalper prices and to fuel the mentality that is ok to rip off your fellow histtankers and collectors to pay for an overly inflated trip to go to some convention. Thats just plane moronic...again I would be happy to give them $50-$80 tip for their assistance to pick up an extra set...but paying them $1500+ just so they can justify the trip to the wife...no way in hell...

Also, I have not seen one auction go for more than $800. Where are you getting this $1500 stuff? Just asking, I do not mean to offend your or insult your intelligence.

[krisk]

I love this, human nature in all of it's many faces.

1. the ones on the inside (I got mine!), crying foul
2. the ones on the outside (missed out), happy for even a glimmer of hope
3. The instigators (not gonna buy anyway), stirring the pot, complaining on both sides because it looks fun.

You would think everyone would be happy that there is a chance that more people could buy this set.

Well my I got mine and my wife got hers, we both got 2 and 2, and I am not crying foul. I think that the club didnt realize there would be such a big demand for a small group of outcast figs, hell I know I didnt!! Yes, I did get rid off all but one boxed set, basically cost plus shipping. That way I was able to help 3 guys who were not going to be able to attend and my wife gets to get in for free-ish, still had to sign her up for membership.
If others can get a set from the club or the club makes 1500 sets for the next con then how is that really going to affect the Ebay price. Lets not forget that some people that want these sets refuse to be members with the club, that $45 or whatever is too much for them. So to those people I say let them pay the inflated secondary market or next year join(or rejoin) the club and let the club know that you are there to get the con sets! and maybe they will increase their production numbers...

[bluesparrow]

I'm not arguing that THIS con set is worth less than what the current prices are, but that using the CURRENT prices of Con items as a way of planning your future vacations is not a smart strategy, long term. Because the market will drop out. I don't know when, but there are only so many people willing to pay even Club prices for these sets, and when the Club hits that number, the aftermarket will crash.

So short term, yes, these are "worth" money. But it's a transitory thing built on perception of value, not intrinsic value such as gold or oil.

[CrimsonGuard101]

Also, I have not seen one auction go for more than $800. Where are you getting this $1500 stuff?

Oh you wait...soon, even at $800 thats insanity to force fellow collectors to pay...that's what 100-120% profit on the boxed set? not even retail makes that kind of margin on anythign they sell..

[Starfighter]

I'm not arguing that THIS con set is worth less than what the current prices are, but that using the CURRENT prices of Con items as a way of planning your future vacations is not a smart strategy, long term. Because the market will drop out. I don't know when, but there are only so many people willing to pay even Club prices for these sets, and when the Club hits that number, the aftermarket will crash.

So short term, yes, these are "worth" money. But it's a transitory thing built on perception of value, not intrinsic value such as gold or oil.

Yes, at some point, when all of the hype for GI Joe dies down, people will get burnt and lose out on money. However, if they sell for even a $20 profit, it still would reduce their total costs by $20.

[krisk]

I'm not arguing that THIS con set is worth less than what the current prices are, but that using the CURRENT prices of Con items as a way of planning your future vacations is not a smart strategy, long term. Because the market will drop out. I don't know when, but there are only so many people willing to pay even Club prices for these sets, and when the Club hits that number, the aftermarket will crash.

So short term, yes, these are "worth" money. But it's a transitory thing built on perception of value, not intrinsic value such as gold or oil.

do people really buy these sets for LONG TERM value? It seems to me that the money would be from the quick turnaround and list it from your hotel room Wednesday or Thursday night!

I know the stuff I have recently bought from last year's con and SDCC were less than they were selling for just after the Cons. Now I have not bought any figure sets but have bought vehicles(stinger and water moc and SDCC starscream) for far less then the ebay prices last summers

[bluesparrow]

Yes, at some point, when all of the hype for GI Joe dies down, people will get burnt and lose out on money. However, if they sell for even a $20 profit, it still would reduce their total costs by $20.

True, but how many people are going go be able to suddenly afford their vacations because they defrayed the costs by $20? If you can only afford your vacation because you can defray the costs by $500 you're not going to go if you can only defray it by $20.

[CrimsonGuard101]

do people really buy these sets for LONG TERM value? It seems to me that the money would be from the quick turnaround and list it from your hotel room Wednesday or Thursday night!

I know the stuff I have recently bought from last year's con and SDCC were less than they were selling for just after the Cons. Now I have not bought any figure sets but have bought vehicles(stinger and water moc and SDCC starscream) for far less then the ebay prices last summers

Yeah thats the trick, if everyone would wait a 6 months or so the peeps who bought this set to solely pay for the grossly exorbitant trip would think twice about doing that again. Now the comic shop dealers and other toy line collctors looking to boost thier income of limited supply toys and just show up to buy out the demand to scalp them off, they are not so worried, since they reduce the over all numbers and know someone eventually will bite on the sets and exclusives (mostly your golden ticket holders).

[iflye8s]

I don't see the problem. I'm a military member and was TDY the entire registration period with no internet access. I was planning on attending, but when I couldn't get the set even if I paid and attended, I canceled my leave and trip plans. I'm willing to pay what the club is/was charging, but I'm not interested in buying from ebay and paying for someone else's trip to the con. That being said, my interest has been saved on said spreadsheet and sent in. Otherwise I'll be looking for some sympathy from one of you guys to help me get a set.

[Starfighter]

Oh you wait...soon, even at $800 thats insanity to force fellow collectors to pay...that's what 100-120% profit on the boxed set? not even retail makes that kind of margin on anythign they sell..

I just stated that was the highest that I had seen. I have not seen them go for less recently than $600. I am not saying that you have to pay that much, I would hate to pay that much and honestly hope that that trend goes away as I hate having to spend a lot more in the aftermarket. Hopefully, the club could gauge the production run better so that everyone will not have to pay as much if the did not get a chance to go or pre-order it online. But then again, weren't you against the original $345 price tag from the beginning? If that is the case, you are just bumping your post count up just to argue. I do not see the Club selling these sets for a cheaper asking price. That is just something you will have to live with in their terms. Either buy it for their price from the beginning or not get it at all. There should be no complaint in that case as it would be a simple yes or no in getting the set.

[ergozoom]

I'm not arguing that THIS con set is worth less than what the current prices are, but that using the CURRENT prices of Con items as a way of planning your future vacations is not a smart strategy, long term. Because the market will drop out. I don't know when, but there are only so many people willing to pay even Club prices for these sets, and when the Club hits that number, the aftermarket will crash.

So short term, yes, these are "worth" money. But it's a transitory thing built on perception of value, not intrinsic value such as gold or oil.
A gold ring isn't any different than a Horrorshow figure. Both are bought as a piece of entertainment and the prices of each fluctuate. I wouldn't be comfortable buying gold at $1500/ounce today even though it was $1800/ounce a couple months ago. (Of course, it was $400/ounce less than 10 years ago, so it looks like it's been a great investment, but it was $800/ounce in the late '70s, so the folks that bought it then weren't too happy.)

Gold does have more practical uses in electronics, though, so that gives it another level of usefulness that drives up its price. Of course, there is always the chance that a better, cheaper material is developed and then gold is back to just being something pretty (like Horrorshow).

[General Hawk]

In response to these two:
What about the Golden Ticket buyers......I have spoken to several and they ALL have said they are going to resell their extras and keep a set to themselves. Now granted thats only about 12 guys, but I wonder how many more of the 75 are doing that, it wouldnt be much of a stretch of imagination to suspect they are ALL reselling the product. The only benefit I can see of the Golden Ticket is for resellers and maybe one or 3 hoarders. Yes I know its just for the Con exclusives, but let think of this; if 40 of the Golden Ticket holders are pure scalpers and plan on making every penny they can, then thats prolly 80 sets(40 boxed and 40 bagged) that are gone for resellers.

Not necessarily. For those of us who are trying to help out multiple people, the Golden Ticket is the best option. I have two friends I'm trying to buy for, and then myself, so having the Golden Ticket available (which means I can buy three of each item on the first night) means I can help everyone without having to go back through the line multiple times.

The friends help offset some Golden Ticket costs, I hook folks up. Nothing nefarious. Of course, I don't think collectors re-selling con exclusives to make some money back is nefarious anyway. Sometimes the anti-scalper rhetoric goes considerably overboard.

[CrimsonGuard101]

I just stated that was the highest that I had seen. I have not seen them go for less recently than $600. I am not saying that you have to pay that much, I would hate to pay that much and honestly hope that that trend goes away as I hate having to spend a lot more in the aftermarket. Hopefully, the club could gauge the production run better so that everyone will not have to pay as much if the did not get a chance to go or pre-order it online. But then again, weren't you against the original $345 price tag from the beginning? If that is the case, you are just bumping your post count up just to argue. I do not see the Club selling these sets for a cheaper asking price. That is just something you will have to live with in their terms. Either buy it for their price from the beginning or not get it at all. There should be no complaint in that case as it would be a simple yes or no in getting the set.

The hell? I was never against the $345 price point, I paid it last year for the brazil set, I paid it for this set. You need to get your facts strait lol...just so your clear WHAT I am against is the notion it is "exclusive" to pay for someones stupid exclusive trip to a convention...

[bluesparrow]

Either buy it for their price from the beginning or not get it at all. There should be no complaint in that case as it would be a simple yes or no in getting the set.

Well the complaint originally was that a lot of people didn't get the opportunity to buy it at the Club's price. So the Club is now looking into the possibility of making more, which upset the people who were relying on inflated aftermarket prices to pay for their vacations.

And I did manage to get a non-attendee set, btw. I'm just leery of the people who are relying on selling the set to make the numbers work for their vacation. Not on a moral or ethical basis, it just seems like foolish thinking to me.

I'm going on vacation this coming Saturday to Europe for two weeks. I don't expect to defray the costs at all. I'm going because I can afford to go, because I saved the money. If you can only afford to go on vacation because you expect to defray the costs through toy aftermarket speculation, you're rolling the dice. And imo, that's stupid.

[Tall Creeper]

Is there serious conversation about lawsuits over this? Or is that just speculation?

I recall a certain SNL skit involving William Shatner many years ago which culminated with: "Get a Life"

Everything here is speculation, if it happens, cool, if not, so what? I used to go to SDCC every year... wait in the long ass lines for exclusives. Then things would be sold online later... some easier to obtain than others, but I never got my panties out of joint because of it. I couldn't go to the convention because I have NO vacation time thank to, thank God, a new job. I didn't get a chance to order the set because it sold out so fast. I like the thought that maybe I'll get a second chance!

If I don't, then oh-well... but the thought that a lawsuit could come into play... jesus christ, there are some serious entitlement issues going on in the collector world. They're 3.75" pieces of plastic for fucks sake.

This is right on point and the mere mention of a law suit is straight out of bounds!!

[CrimsonGuard101]

Well the complaint originally was that a lot of people didn't get the opportunity to buy it at the Club's price. So the Club is now looking into the possibility of making more, which upset the people who were relying on inflated aftermarket prices to pay for their vacations.

And I did manage to get a non-attendee set, btw. I'm just leery of the people who are relying on selling the set to make the numbers work for their vacation. Not on a moral or ethical basis, it just seems like foolish thinking to me.

I'm going on vacation this coming Saturday to Europe for two weeks. I don't expect to defray the costs at all. I'm going because I can afford to go, because I saved the money. If you can only afford to go on vacation because you expect to defray the costs through toy aftermarket speculation, you're rolling the dice. And imo, that's stupid.

^^^this

[Mongoose]

Well the complaint originally was
I'm going on vacation this coming Saturday to Europe for two weeks. I don't expect to defray the costs at all. I'm going because I can afford to go, because I saved the money. If you can only afford to go on vacation because you expect to defray the costs through toy aftermarket speculation, you're rolling the dice. And imo, that's stupid.

I'm going to the con because I saved money and could afford it too. That doesn't mean that my car didn't die last week and need $200 worth of work. Just because I don't NEED to get that trip money back doesn't mean I wouldn't like to. I'm not a rich man, so getting anything back helps pay future bills. If I can't get any of that back, oh well. But, if I can, then that's an added bonus.

[jediz]

This is the way it is every single year in all hobbies. Not just G.I. Joe.

BTW, I see that you are from Oklahoma and have asked multiple times on this forum if anyone close wanted to drive to the con to offset the costs, but haven't heard anything. I assume that you are not going so this is not directly at you but for everyone. I am driving with a fellow collector so that it will make the trip faster, but it is not like I did not offer to those around me in Oklahoma and in North Texas. Perhaps next year for anyone interested, we can make a road-trip to help offset the costs.

It wasn't me looking for carpool participants.

[Starfighter]

Well the complaint originally was that a lot of people didn't get the opportunity to buy it at the Club's price. So the Club is now looking into the possibility of making more, which upset the people who were relying on inflated aftermarket prices to pay for their vacations.

And I did manage to get a non-attendee set, btw. I'm just leery of the people who are relying on selling the set to make the numbers work for their vacation. Not on a moral or ethical basis, it just seems like foolish thinking to me.

I'm going on vacation this coming Saturday to Europe for two weeks. I don't expect to defray the costs at all. I'm going because I can afford to go, because I saved the money. If you can only afford to go on vacation because you expect to defray the costs through toy aftermarket speculation, you're rolling the dice. And imo, that's stupid.

Where at in Europe? I used to live in both Germany and Denmark. In doing so, I speak 6 languages including English.

[Starfighter]

It wasn't me looking for carpool participants.

I know, I am just stating that perhaps us Oklahomans can take a road-trip to the con next year so that it is cheaper for everyone if we plan it early.

[poddie]

You bring up a good point that I had not considered.

Therefore I amend my earlier statement:

The only people getting hurt by a few more of these getting produced are secondary market sellers and those individuals that have already shelled out big bucks to secondary market sellers to get one.

The latter is indeed unfortunate, though I would note again that it isn't likely that the set is going to drop below retail value, and honestly, if you were willing to shell out $500 bucks to have the set...are you honestly more concerned about value than simply owning the toys? Or were you spending that much money because it was worth it (to you) to own the set...in other words you wanted the toys that badly? Unless you were planning on a quick turnaround and selling it for $700 a week later, it's not really about resale value, is it?

Yes, it's annoying to have paid that much, but if the product was worth it to you then, it should still be worth it to you now.

Yes, I was definitely planning on selling some of the extra IG, and had thought I could reverse some of the pain of the price by doing so. So yes, it is now (if they make another run) worth less than it was before.

The problem here is that the club was quite definite that it was a very limited specific number and that there would not be any more. If that hadn't been said, then they would have a lot easier time justifying that this action is appropriate.

Addressing some other comments I've seen:

(1) This whole smokescreen about whether people should buy sets and sell them at a profit is ridiculous. These items are a product. If people use normal, legal means to obtain a product, and normal, legal means to sell it, that is perfectly fine. These sales are an agreement between the buyer and seller... they will either be at market value or provide some additional value to one side or the other (convenience, peace of mind, quick turnaround, etc). People can buy and sell whatever the hell they want, and when they do sell they should get a fair value of the product at the time of the sale. Anything else wouldn't be fair.

(2) This talk of a lawsuit is pretty silly. The total number of participants x the total likely reimbursement = peanuts. No lawyer in his right mind would take on an expensive case like this and expect to see any reasonable return for their time. And this is not such a big injustice that someone would donate their time to pursue it. Just a complete non-starter. Additionally, I don't see how Hasbro would be involved at all. They did not sell the sets. They did not advertise the quantities. You'd have to go after the club and they aren't exactly flush. Game over (and rightly so).

(3) I would just like to reiterate that I strongly believe exclusives should be available as widely as possible. False rarity (like purposely under-producing an exclusive to create a sense of demand) sucks imo. I am only objecting to producing more in this case because they are reversing their original position AFTER making all the sales to people under false pretenses. That said, I'm not mad or anything... there is at least a benefit that others can have their Oktober Guard, which is what I was so concerned I would not be able to have myself. So I wish them all well.

[dorian247]

Originally Posted by dorian247
I feel that if anyone needs to count on the money from selling exclusives to supplement the cost of going to a convention than honestly maybe its not financially responsible to attend the convention in the first place.

That being said I am not referring to individuals that do this as a business. I am referring to the convention attendee looking to make a quick buck.

WHY? Is there a problem with saving money? Would it not be smarter to save money?

I agree with you in part. My point was just that if a person cant afford to go to Joe-Con, Comic-Con whatever unless you sell stuff for several times retail amount just to offset their costs then they are already being financially irresponsible.
So yes it is smarter to save money until you can afford to go and dont have to depend on inflated costs of TOYS in the secondary market to cover your expenses.

Anyway I think we are talking about the same idea just a different thought process on how to get to that point.

[Starfighter]

Yes, I was definitely planning on selling some of the extra IG, and had thought I could reverse some of the pain of the price by doing so. So yes, it is now (if they make another run) worth less than it was before.

The problem here is that the club was quite definite that it was a very limited specific number and that there would not be any more. If that hadn't been said, then they would have a lot easier time justifying that this action is appropriate.

Addressing some other comments I've seen:

(1) This whole smokescreen about whether people should buy sets and sell them at a profit is ridiculous. These items are a product. If people use normal, legal means to obtain a product, and normal, legal means to sell it, that is perfectly fine. These sales are an agreement between the buyer and seller... they will either be at market value or provide some additional value to one side or the other (convenience, peace of mind, quick turnaround, etc). People can buy and sell whatever the hell they want, and when they do sell they should get a fair value of the product at the time of the sale. Anything else wouldn't be fair.

(2) This talk of a lawsuit is pretty silly. The total number of participants x the total likely reimbursement = peanuts. No lawyer in his right mind would take on an expensive case like this and expect to see any reasonable return for their time. And this is not such a big injustice that someone would donate their time to pursue it. Just a complete non-starter. Additionally, I don't see how Hasbro would be involved at all. They did not sell the sets. They did not advertise the quantities. You'd have to go after the club and they aren't exactly flush. Game over (and rightly so).

(3) I would just like to reiterate that I strongly believe exclusives should be available as widely as possible. False rarity (like purposely under-producing an exclusive to create a sense of demand) sucks imo. I am only objecting to producing more in this case because they are reversing their original position AFTER making all the sales to people under false pretenses. That said, I'm not mad or anything... there is at least a benefit that others can have their Oktober Guard, which is what I was so concerned I would not be able to have myself. So I wish them all well.

Part 3 sounds like Mattycollector.

[Xenos]

True, but how many people are going go be able to suddenly afford their vacations because they defrayed the costs by $20? If you can only afford your vacation because you can defray the costs by $500 you're not going to go if you can only defray it by $20.

But for a lot of people it's not an issue of needing the income of selling exclusives to fund their trip, it's just a nice little bonus. I go to Comic Con every year, and I don't need to sell anything to pay for my trip, but last year I grabbed a few extra exclusives that I didn't want from lines I don't collect, tossed them up on eBay, and completely paid for SDCC ticket, and all of the exclusives I did want to keep.
If the stuff I bought to put on eBay didn't sell, then that would have meant that I would have paid a few hundred extra dollars on Con that I otherwise wouldn't have paid, plus I would now have some Star Wars figures in my collection. Not a whole lot of risk there, but the upside is pretty nice.

[sithewok]

Also, I have not seen one auction go for more than $800. Where are you getting this $1500 stuff? Just asking, I do not mean to offend your or insult your intelligence.

If you look at completed auctions, there are a couple that have gone above 800 (though all I have seen also include the attendee item, so that's probably the reason they were higher). Plenty of them for 650.00 and up. This set has gone crazy... I could see those of us who paid high prices feeling a bit stupid, but as I said earlier, I won't be mad more people have access. (just kick myself for being impatient. Ha.)

[krisk]

Not necessarily. For those of us who are trying to help out multiple people, the Golden Ticket is the best option. I have two friends I'm trying to buy for, and then myself, so having the Golden Ticket available (which means I can buy three of each item on the first night) means I can help everyone without having to go back through the line multiple times.

The friends help offset some Golden Ticket costs, I hook folks up. Nothing nefarious. Of course, I don't think collectors re-selling con exclusives to make some money back is nefarious anyway. Sometimes the anti-scalper rhetoric goes considerably overboard.

I did too but I didnt get a Golden Ticket. As I was typing it I realized that if I had a ticket some of my Joe buddies would have con exclusives. That was why I changed the last line about the resellers....
True on the scalper hate, but sometimes isnt it justified? Especially when you see on Friday morning of Joecon 2011, 100 listings for Joecon 2011 Stinger Jeeps most of them for $175 to $250......
My opinion is the golden ticket is just another way for the "club" to raise money and probably only helps a small portion of the collectors.

[dorian247]

yup if i sell some stuff thats bonus, if not oh well. This year im trying to pick up a few extra jinx for some fellow tankers and Im just trading for troop builders. I could sell them but meh.

Anyhow I hope the set gets released again.

[volleydan]

My only interest in this set is in being able to sell it after the con to defray the cost of attendance. So from that perspective I don't want to see more made.

BUT, since the hobby is bigger than just me (imagine that!) I wouldn't be too upset to see a few more made to fill some of the demand that seems to exist for this item....even if it cuts into my final sales price a bit.

All of the talk about lawsuits (!) and whether the Club has the "right" to make more of a product that it produced (!!!) are just confusing to me. Nerd rage is a really irrational thing.

They made some. There seem to be way more people out there that want what they made, so they're looking into making more. If more people get these items, they will have more happy customers. BUT, being a business, they don't want to make more until they know with as much certainty as possible that they'll sell through. Even if they don't get enough interest to make a second run, they'll have more data that they can use to set production numbers for next year.

Sounds like the first good decision the Club has made in a long time to me.....

[Loose Cannon]

I never have a problem with people buying extra sets and reselling them. But $350 is a huge price tag. that in and of itself blows out most Joe collectors. So you settle for $150 worth of figures instead and only get the one you really want from the secondary market. But Now these sets are $700 before anyone even received one. I think most con goers probably bought the same amount they always buy, which has never been a problem before, because non attendee CLUB MEMBERs could still purchase a set or two for another $40-$50.

What is not fair is non attendee members didn't even get a chance to buy one. Is it because attendees bought more or the club made less or there were just more members this year?

I'm just curious how mnny sets were made this years as compared to years prior.

[Bernit69]

I would buy a set. Prefer them loose to save. I'm a opener.

[Night_Force_GI_EDDO]

I think it's a great idea. There have been so many people who have been unable to get a set, I think this is a good
Move on the club's part to look into it a bit further

[CrimsonGuard101]

I did too but I didnt get a Golden Ticket. As I was typing it I realized that if I had a ticket some of my Joe buddies would have con exclusives. That was why I changed the last line about the resellers....
True on the scalper hate, but sometimes isnt it justified? Especially when you see on Friday morning of Joecon 2011, 100 listings for Joecon 2011 Stinger Jeeps most of them for $175 to $250......
My opinion is the golden ticket is just another way for the "club" to raise money and probably only helps a small portion of the collectors.

The golden ticket would be ok if it was true joe collectors buying it, but the majority probabely all went to those scalpers that deserve so much hate...the ones that will set them at $1500 right after the con and then everyone will justify that thats the "going price" pay it or too bad mentality...

[SonOfMindbender]

I want one but...there is no reason to do another run. I like club sets because their rarer. Bet you didn't expect that, did ya LOL?

[Xenos]

I never have a problem with people buying extra sets and reselling them. But $350 is a huge price tag. that in and of itself blows out most Joe collectors. So you settle for $150 worth of figures instead and only get the one you really want from the secondary market. But Now these sets are $700 before anyone even received one. I think most con goers probably bought the same amount they always buy, which has never been a problem before, because non attendee CLUB MEMBERs could still purchase a set or two for another $40-$50.

What is not fair is non attendee members didn't even get a chance to buy one. Is it because attendees bought more or the club made less or there were just more members this year?

I'm just curious how mnny sets were made this years as compared to years prior.

They made 100 more this year then they did last year, it just was way more popular.

[Arbrias]

Is it because attendees bought more or the club made less or there were just more members this year?

I'm just curious how mnny sets were made this years as compared to years prior.

I have seen this asked a few times, there were actually more sets produced this year:
2012: boxed 600 + bagged 325 = 925 total sets
2011: boxed 500 + bagged 325 = 825 total sets
2010: boxed 500 + bagged 300 = 800 total sets

Numbers taken from the brochures, but they are slowly creeping up in production numbers, the supply just isn't keeping up with demand anymore.

[X-factorz]

Definitely a great idea! I filled out my spreadsheet and sent it in yesterday. I hope there is a great response to these and that the club releases more so that every fan who wants one can get one without being taken over the coals on the secondary market. The sets are already expensive enough as it is and when price eliminates fans from being able to obtain long sought after characters it only hurts the line.

This is the first positive sign I have seen from the club in a long time and I hope it is an indication of things to come!

[07GT500 COBRA]

I have seen this asked a few times, there were actually more sets produced this year:
2012: boxed 600 + bagged 325 = 925 total sets
2011: boxed 500 + bagged 325 = 825 total sets
2010: boxed 500 + bagged 300 = 800 total sets

Numbers taken from the brochures, but they are slowly creeping up in production numbers, the supply just isn't keeping up with demand anymore.

Fixed.

[Starfighter]

I have seen this asked a few times, there were actually more sets produced this year:
2012: boxed 600 + bagged 250 = 850 total sets
2011: boxed 500 + bagged 325 = 825 total sets
2010: boxed 500 + bagged 300 = 800 total sets

Numbers taken from the brochures, but they are slowly creeping up in production numbers, the supply just isn't keeping up with demand anymore.

There are 325 Bagged this year. I bet that a 1000 were made in total. 600 for the Boxed, 325 for the bagged and 75 for QC errors.

[CrimsonGuard101]

I have seen this asked a few times, there were actually more sets produced this year:
2012: boxed 600 + bagged 250 = 850 total sets
2011: boxed 500 + bagged 325 = 825 total sets
2010: boxed 500 + bagged 300 = 800 total sets

Numbers taken from the brochures, but they are slowly creeping up in production numbers, the supply just isn't keeping up with demand anymore.

Well if your talking about O-ring figures and 12inch con sets...then they are right on the money with the limited supply :0 I think they still have some 12 inch packages available! They need to quick thinking of those as base points for demand of 25th level quality figures. They would get a system shock if they ever decides to POC level quality con sets....they would need like 4500 of those hah....and Hasbro would be sad panda cause no one willl want their retail crap lines anymore...

[Arbrias]

Fixed.

Thanks for catching that, it's been a long day at the office and I accidently grabbed the numbers on the 12" set instead of the bagged numbers.

[Starfighter]

Fixed.

You beat me to it by mere seconds. It is probably that GT500 Cobra that you have in your photo.

[07GT500 COBRA]

You beat me to it by mere seconds. It is probably that GT500 Cobra that you have in your photo.

You must drive a Camaro or Challenger then! lol

[Starfighter]

You must drive a Camaro or Challenger then! lol

Nice!

[General Hawk]

True on the scalper hate, but sometimes isnt it justified? Especially when you see on Friday morning of Joecon 2011, 100 listings for Joecon 2011 Stinger Jeeps most of them for $175 to $250......
My opinion is the golden ticket is just another way for the "club" to raise money and probably only helps a small portion of the collectors.

Perhaps, unless it's the market driving it. For example, if on the Monday after the Convention, I post a carded Footloose on eBay for .99 and it gets bid up to $150 does that make me a scalper?

I listed it for way below market value and below MSRP, but people bidding on it are the ones that drove the price way up.

Just like many other fans, those GIJCC Python Patrol vehicles and figures are among a very few items that I'm missing. I would love to own them, but I am aware that hot demand from collectors is what drove the price that high, and I'm not sitting back and blaming the seller for trying to earn what the market has demanded in the past.

[KrymsynGardImmoral]

I am very happy they are making more. I don't care about resale value, or scalping value, I would prefer to see people get what they want directly from the club rather than ebay. I am surprised and impressed the club is doing this.

That being said, I don't have office, and can't fill out the form. In wordpad it is just a big jumble of code. Not their fault.

[Lantern_Lad]

You must drive a Challenger then! lol

I do... and I regret every minute of that purchase... trade someone the car for a con set.

I kid...

about the trade part... the car's a piece of shit.

[07GT500 COBRA]

I am very happy they are making more. I don't care about resale value, or scalping value, I would prefer to see people get what they want directly from the club rather than ebay. I am surprised and impressed the club is doing this.

That being said, I don't have office, and can't fill out the form. In wordpad it is just a big jumble of code. Not their fault.

They have not confirmed they are making more, just gauging interest.

[CrimsonGuard101]

Perhaps, unless it's the market driving it. For example, if on the Monday after the Convention, I post a carded Footloose on eBay for .99 and it gets bid up to $150 does that make me a scalper?

I listed it for way below market value and below MSRP, but people bidding on it are the ones that drove the price way up.

Just like many other fans, those GIJCC Python Patrol vehicles and figures are among a very few items that I'm missing. I would love to own them, but I am aware that hot demand from collectors is what drove the price that high, and I'm not sitting back and blaming the seller for trying to earn what the market has demanded in the past.

Given we dont know who bought them you cant say it was totally collectors buying them, that's skewed logic. It could be a comic shop buying up remaining stock to over inflate their prices and give them a bigger return after cornering the market on extremely limited items.

And no by setting it at 99 cents you let the people decide how much your item is going to go for, not scalping. thats a miles different then setting it at a bin of $4500 or or setting it a 345.99 with a 900$ reserve....

[KrymsynGardImmoral]

They have not confirmed they are making more, just gauging interest.

I am very happy they are gauging interest in potentially possibly considering making more, maybe.

[X-factorz]

I am very happy they are making more. I don't care about resale value, or scalping value, I would prefer to see people get what they want directly from the club rather than ebay. I am surprised and impressed the club is doing this.

That being said, I don't have office, and can't fill out the form. In wordpad it is just a big jumble of code. Not their fault.

Have you tried using Google docs? It might be a workaround for you.

[ultra8294]

I also replied to the Joe club email saying "Yes, I would most definitley be interested"!!

[Loose Cannon]

I have seen this asked a few times, there were actually more sets produced this year:
2012: boxed 600 + bagged 325 = 925 total sets
2011: boxed 500 + bagged 325 = 825 total sets
2010: boxed 500 + bagged 300 = 800 total sets

Numbers taken from the brochures, but they are slowly creeping up in production numbers, the supply just isn't keeping up with demand anymore.

Thanks for posting these. Wasn't there a time when they made 2000 sets? Obviously last years set was not nearly as popular as I ordered mine like 3 days later. I bet it was the fanatical IG fans that scooped them up. :)

But what can they do? If next year they make 100 more sets for a Star Brigade theme that might be a huge mistake. I tell you what they do...PREORDER!

[krisk]

Perhaps, unless it's the market driving it. For example, if on the Monday after the Convention, I post a carded Footloose on eBay for .99 and it gets bid up to $150 does that make me a scalper?

I listed it for way below market value and below MSRP, but people bidding on it are the ones that drove the price way up.

Just like many other fans, those GIJCC Python Patrol vehicles and figures are among a very few items that I'm missing. I would love to own them, but I am aware that hot demand from collectors is what drove the price that high, and I'm not sitting back and blaming the seller for trying to earn what the market has demanded in the past.



And no by setting it at 99 cents you let the people decide how much your item is going to go for, not scalping. thats a miles different then setting it at a bin of $4500 or or setting it a 345.99 with a 900$ reserve....

or the guys who are trying to say that a year later the PP Stinger Jeep is still pulling $250 BIN cuz thats what most of the listings still show, even though those listings are just sitting on Ebay, week after week after month....

Start a auction at your cost and if peps bid it up, but the next guy who starts a auction gets what he paid out of it, then the third guy sees your auction and sets a BIN of what your auction went for.
That guy is a scalper! hahaha...

That actually is a pet peeve of Ebay for me......I may need to go post over in that thread! ha

[ergozoom]

And no by setting it at 99 cents you let the people decide how much your item is going to go for, not scalping. thats a miles different then setting it at a bin of $4500 or or setting it a 345.99 with a 900$ reserve....
Is it scalping if the item never reaches $900 and doesn't sell? What damage has that done to anything?

Every item I own has some monetary value to me. If the right offer was made, I would sell any material good in my home. I put some of those goods on eBay at a price significantly higher than my assigned value, and if they sell, great! And if they don't, that's fine too and I get to hang onto them because I like 'em.

An example: When I went to SDCC in 2010 I bought two USA Sgt. Slaughters. I like having two of the exclusives, but recently I saw the price went up to a point where it exceeded the value I had assigned to Sarge, so I decided to put one up for auction. I didn't want the figure to sell for $0.99 because that was less than the value I assigned to it, so I set it at a high opening bid (which matched the highest-priced USA Sarge that had sold up to that point). I put the Buy it Now at a price 15-20% higher than that. Within a couple days, someone used the BiN option and bought my Sarge. I wasn't even a little sad because the price exceeded the value I had assigned to the figure.

Now I'm thinking of putting up my last USA Sarge, but he's going to have to sell for significantly more because he's my last one and I would be perfectly fine if the auction ends without any bidders and I just keep the figure.

All this to say, I don't think there is a problem when people put exorbitantly high prices on their auctions and the item never sells. Sure, I think it's amusing when someone puts a 1994 MOC Joe up for $150, but I don't get upset that they're not pricing it at my perceived value. I just move on to the next auction.

[Cobra]

It is nice they are looking at making more. But I think they should look at making more of the older sets both G.I. Joe and Transformers like the Brazil and Shattered glass sets. Yes I can hear the haters of my idea now.

[ergozoom]

Start a auction at your cost and if peps bid it up, but the next guy who starts a auction gets what he paid out of it, then the third guy sees your auction and sets a BIN of what your auction went for.
That guy is a scalper! hahaha...

See my previous post. I did exactly what you described, but I had no evil intentions of driving up market value or anything like that. Sarge was simply worth more to someone else than he was worth to me.

What is wrong with that transaction?

[CrimsonGuard101]

Is it scalping if the item never reaches $900 and doesn't sell? What damage has that done to anything?

Every item I own has some monetary value to me. If the right offer was made, I would sell any material good in my home. I put some of those goods on eBay at a price significantly higher than my assigned value, and if they sell, great! And if they don't, that's fine too and I get to hang onto them because I like 'em.

An example: When I went to SDCC in 2010 I bought two USA Sgt. Slaughters. I like having two of the exclusives, but recently I saw the price went up to a point where it exceeded the value I had assigned to Sarge, so I decided to put one up for auction. I didn't want the figure to sell for $0.99 because that was less than the value I assigned to it, so I set it at a high opening bid (which matched the highest-priced USA Sarge that had sold up to that point). I put the Buy it Now at a price 15-20% higher than that. Within a couple days, someone used the BiN option and bought my Sarge. I wasn't even a little sad because the price exceeded the value I had assigned to the figure.

Now I'm thinking of putting up my last USA Sarge, but he's going to have to sell for significantly more because he's my last one and I would be perfectly fine if the auction ends without any bidders and I just keep the figure.

All this to say, I don't think there is a problem when people put exorbitantly high prices on their auctions and the item never sells. Sure, I think it's amusing when someone puts a 1994 MOC Joe up for $150, but I don't get upset that they're not pricing it at my perceived value. I just move on to the next auction.

Yeah it is, they want something for a set price and not allowing the auction site to work like it supposed by bascially setting a bin by setting a reserve of $900 that high over the innitial cost of the item (person still thinks they are paying for a weeknd of boozing it up at the con and buying the house drinks at this point). Theres reasonable mark up and then theres scalping. Anything dictating 120-200% margin on a product being resold from another vendor is scalping. No way around it. Sorry. If it is the only item in existence and its coming from your familys herloomed perosnal stash maybe just maybe you have the right to set that price. But when theres 600 or more of the item...thats up to the buyers. If we put all 600 con sets on ebay all at the same time we would have better insight into what the "actual mean value" of the product is if everyone of them sold. But from seller to seller to seller to resller to scalper week to week to month to year? the price points will be all over the place while they jockey for the highest price possible each time. And thus they sit after a time like has been mentioned. Unless they are at .99 no reserve, I see those sell all the time, and almost every time it is within reasonable limits cost wise.

[Arbrias]

Thanks for posting these. Wasn't there a time when they made 2000 sets? Obviously last years set was not nearly as popular as I ordered mine like 3 days later. I bet it was the fanatical IG fans that scooped them up. :)

But what can they do? If next year they make 100 more sets for a Star Brigade theme that might be a huge mistake. I tell you what they do...PREORDER!

Between 2004 and 2007 they consistiently offered 1150 sets, but nothing went over that as far as I could see from brochures.

[krisk]

See my previous post. I did exactly what you described, but I had no evil intentions of driving up market value or anything like that. Sarge was simply worth more to someone else than he was worth to me.

What is wrong with that transaction?

nothing, because it SOLD!

I am talking about the ones that dont sell, like the guy who has a SDCC Starscream/Skystriker listed at $399 and it never sold, or the guys that constantly putting the PP Stinger Jeep at $250 and they DON'T sell.....but both these guys just keep listing them time and again........

If you don't sell the item are you going to keep listing your USA Sarge at $495 or whatever it is you want to sell it at? Then yes, I think you are wasting your time for listing it and my time for having to look at it......

on this site people pull auctions off of ebay all the time when something is listed with stupid high BIN prices/starting bid amounts and make fun of them...
My point is, if you dont really want to sell your item, then dont list it. Putting an item on Ebay for 2 or 3 times the most recent sell averages for that item is just silly to me.....and watching it sit and sit cuz no one takes a bite, then isnt that telling the seller something?

Another listing was for a Boxed Defiant, guy wanted $8500 plus shipping, it was listed time and again for over a year.......its now listed at $6500 and still sits......

Doesn't wasting your time bother you when you sell items? Don't sellers have to pay to list a item over and over and over again?

[Xenos]

Yeah it is, they want something for a set price and not allowing the auction site to work like it supposed by bascially setting a bin by setting a reserve of $900 that high over the innitial cost of the item (person still thinks they are paying for a weeknd of boozing it up at the con and buying the house drinks at this point). Theres reasonable mark up and then theres scalping. Anything dictating 120-200% margin on a product being resold from another vendor is scalping. No way around it. Sorry. If it is the only item in existence and its coming from your familys herloomed perosnal stash maybe just maybe you have the right to set that price. But when theres 600 or more of the item...thats up to the buyers. If we put all 600 con sets on ebay all at the same time we would have better insight into what the "actual mean value" of the product is if everyone of them sold. But from seller to seller to seller to resller to scalper week to week to month to year? the price points will be all over the place while they jockey for the highest price possible each time. And thus they sit after a time like has been mentioned. Unless they are at .99 no reserve, I see those sell all the time, and almost every time it is within reasonable limits cost wise.
So what do you think Ergozoom should have done? Should he have risked selling it for less then he was willing to part with it for, or should he have just never made it available to anyone? Also, there is no functional difference between having a minimum bid and starting your auction off at that minimum bid.

Secondly, at this point there aren't 600 of the sets available. The vast majority of the sets are going into people's collections, and never leaving. So in reality, the number available on eBay is probably more like 50.

[CrimsonGuard101]

So what do you think Ergozoom should have done? Should he have risked selling it for less then he was willing to part with it for, or should he have just never made it available to anyone? Also, there is no functional difference between having a minimum bid and starting your auction off at that minimum bid.

Secondly, at this point there aren't 600 of the sets available. The vast majority of the sets are going into people's collections, and never leaving. So in reality, the number available on eBay is probably more like 50.

You have no proof of that(nor do i, oh the joys of pointless argumentative speculation). I have seen more people talking about selling to pay for thier trips then people saying they are keeping em (i am 100% keeping mine and never plan to sell it, its worth that much to me, the $345 it cost to buy it). And no to answer your question, he should not have sold it if it means that much to him. What was the point of having it to begin with if it was just going to get sold off? To make money by scalping it maybe when the scalping was prime? else wise he would have put it up for 99 cents and let the buyers decide his fate...thats how auctions work.