Going backward instead of forward: Is this the future?

[blayze5150]

Man, who didn't love POC and 30th Anniversary! Lots of weapons (almost too many!), great card art, anticipated characters... it was heaven for the GI Joe collector!
Now we enter Retaliation. The card art is very generic, very few weapons, and same old characters. I understand why, but doesn't it seem like we are going backwards? I bought the Ghost Hawk 2, and the lack of quality was troublesome. I like the way the Vehicle drivers look (they are all really cool), but I feel like I'm putting Kenner Stromtroopers in my cockpits. I'm really happy to have new product (better product than Rise of Cobra, IMO), but this new direction just feels wrong.
I don't think any movie line in the history of movie lines has done well. They all seem to be destined for a clearence sale as soon as they hit the shelves! This formula can be done right , as seen in the Dollar store product released this year. We all know GI Joe will go on, but what do you think the future is?

[ndb]

Honestly, I think we'll end up back at DTC like in 2005. In the meantime, a new radically changed G.I.Joe will come in play. General Hawk will love it. :D

[blayze5150]

Honestly, I think we'll end up back at DTC like in 2005. In the meantime, a new radically changed G.I.Joe will come in play. General Hawk will love it. :D
DTC was too soon. I think it would succeed today... and I wouldn't mind it. They had some really good stuff in that line!

[This I Command!]

I think they are somewhat self-sabotaging in many respects, with all the screw ups the club had to turn a blind eye to that, the SDCC HTS problems they don't fix, Renegades (which basically sucked) and then their solution is to cancel it and not replace it with something better, pushing the movie back, less articulation with the toys, higher price point, etc. etc. etc.

It sort of feels like they are trying to run it in to the ground on purpose, I think there are enough of us that they will never be able to fully kill it off, but I wouldn't at all be surprised if a low quality retail line existed and if we wanted anything close to POC standard we would have to pay $30 a figure online. It's a shame because if they cared for this brand and managed it better there is not a doubt in my mind that it could still maintain a decent level of sales, not '80s numbers, but good enough to justify POC quality figures and more shelf space at retail.

[07GT500 COBRA]

DTC was too soon. I think it would succeed today... and I wouldn't mind it. They had some really good stuff in that line!

With the quality of figures today and the popularity of exclusives, I agree.

[blayze5150]

I don't think Hasbro is trying to sabotage it. They are out to get our money! I just think that Paramont relly screwed them on this. Paramont's cut on the profits is what has driven the price up and reduced the quality. Whoever negotiated the deal for Paramont must have laughed all the way to the bank!

[ndb]

DTC was too soon. I think it would succeed today... and I wouldn't mind it. They had some really good stuff in that line!

I think it would the end of the line though. Look at Masters of the Universe. They are online exclusives now, and the line seems to be failing. If G.I.Joe is to continue, it must be launched into the mainstream market and have kids buying it. The problem now is that G.I.Joe doesn't seem to appeal to kids.

[kingphilbert]

I think it would the end of the line though. Look at Masters of the Universe. They are online exclusives now, and the line seems to be failing. If G.I.Joe is to continue, it must be launched into the mainstream market and have kids buying it. The problem now is that G.I.Joe doesn't seem to appeal to kids.

I think MOTUC is failing because they are now offering obscure and 4-Horsemen created characters.

[blayze5150]

I think it would the end of the line though. Look at Masters of the Universe. They are online exclusives now, and the line seems to be failing. If G.I.Joe is to continue, it must be launched into the mainstream market and have kids buying it. The problem now is that G.I.Joe doesn't seem to appeal to kids.
I diagree. No Cartoon tie-in kills it. Renegades doesn't count since the toys didn't hit the shelves until the show was done!

[sharky]

Crap, I thought this was going to be a cool time traveling discussion.

[ndb]

Cartoon tie-ins didn't help Thundercats or generator Rex. A good cartoon on a channel like CN or nick would be the only way to revive it. The odds of that are pretty slim.

[sbartek1974]

I believe there may be a mixture of Retaliation style and POC/30th style both in retail and internet.

[CrimsonGuard101]

They wouldnt go to all this trouble to test this new reduction in line quality and reduction of vehicle driver articulation to go back to a more expensive operating model liek POC/30th. Soem exec whose taking this over thinks hes gonna rally teh troops with these antics. And with the delayed product due to the movie delay...I see further retail support being dropped for the dwindling offerings of any future spin off wave from Retaliation. We got lucky with ROC to transition into POC and it still didnt leave a big enough impression for retail to keep POC stocked well up through the 30th line that just fell apart at the end and due to the movie cost us some terrific figures...

If retalaition dosent get back on the shelf an dsell well..I think were going to see a hiatus for a few years, especially if the movie bombs..

[Troops of Doom]

I don't think Hasbro is trying to sabotage it. They are out to get our money!

Sabotage defies logic but sometimes I wonder about competency.

I'm in Canada, I wanted to watch Renegades but the Hub isn't available (at least not on my satellite) so I tried to watch it online but they blocked it from being viewed here. Why limit your audience? I ended up watching YouTube bootlegs. No 30A, Renegades or Dollar General figures here either. Why limit your customer base?

[ndb]

Sabotage defies logic but sometimes I wonder about competency.

I'm in Canada, I wanted to watch Renegades but the Hub isn't available (at least not on my satellite) so I tried to watch it online but they blocked it from being viewed here. Why limit your audience? I ended up watching YouTube bootlegs. No 30A, Renegades or Dollar General figures here either. Why limit your customer base?

Because toys based on a Amercan Hero "won't sell". I say idoits. Somebody shoot a Hasbro employee for me.

[zedhatch]

Sabotage defies logic but sometimes I wonder about competency.

I have to agree, especially when you start looking at the other lines from Big H and the antics they pull there too (Though I admit Joe gets the worst of it).



I'm in Canada, I wanted to watch Renegades but the Hub isn't available (at least not on my satellite) so I tried to watch it online but they blocked it from being viewed here. Why limit your audience? I ended up watching YouTube bootlegs. No 30A, Renegades or Dollar General figures here either. Why limit your customer base?


Yeah, Ludicruous if you ask me, we all know Joe has always had a strong following in Canada.

[bandonov]

More PoC PLEASE!!!!

[spiderpumpkin]

deleted

[Ford]

If they're smart, they'll put out good figures with minimal weapons and accessories. And then sell accessory packs online. Or they'll tell fans to shut up and go buy stuff from Marauders.

[Davestro]

Marketing needs to be totally revamped - when was the last time you saw a Hasbro G.I. Joe ad?

A new cartoon is essential - why did Resolute not become a series on Cartoon Network? Why didn't Renegades be an anchor show on the Hub?

How about a video game tie-in? Look at games like Ghost Recon: Future Soldier or any of the Call of Duty games, or even a real time strategy type game. Why not do a G.I. Joe version?

The IDW comics are cool, but there is a level of disconnect from the toys. I remember the latest toys and characters making appearances in the Marvel comic as they were released. The toys need a true comic tie-in that tell the story of the line.

And therein lies the problem. We all know the G.I. Joe tag line...but what does it all mean? How does this apply in the modern world we live in? What is the message...defending freedom or fighting terrorism? These are core messages that are the foundation of G.I. Joe that are not being made. Hasbro has missed the boat on this, and their schizo mentality with the Joe line the last 15 years has been the reason for angst among many fans. The 25th anniversary gave us what we wanted and reintroduced Joes to a new generation...they need to build upon that.

[CobraOfficer999]

I predict that, by the year 2100, all products from
Toys and music to household appliances and automobiles will only be available online. This is why I predict this: Netflix has replaced rental stores like Blockbuster and Hollywood as the defalt place for most people to rent movies. This has caused many "brick and mortors" to shut down or drastically slash stock. Similar things are happening with music, as Itunes and other sites have replaced the local record shops as the places most people go. As a result, after being unable to find Weird Al's Latest Work "Alpocalypse" (2010) at Best Buy, I had to order it direct from his website, and I am sure most of us have experienced this phenomenon with at least some of our music.
The Joes, due to lack of exposure to kids through commercials and prime time shows and other reasons, are already starting to show signs of going Yankovic's way in stores, as most Brick and Mortors ( TRU, Target, Wallmart, ETC.) have already stopped carying them altogether, or drastically reduced their Joe Stocks and there has been an uptick in website exclusives like Amazon's Retailiation 4 Pk Or BBT's Dreadnok and Mauraders 7-PKs.

[Troops of Doom]

Because toys based on a Amercan Hero "won't sell". I say idoits. Somebody shoot a Hasbro employee for me.

There's some self fulfilling justification.

Yeah, Ludicruous if you ask me, we all know Joe has always had a strong following in Canada.

Except for ROC, all the figures have sold out fast in my area. We got the Retaliation line but sadly that confirms my suspicion that we're not getting the 30A, Renegades or the dollar store lines.

[Jettfire]

I predict that, by the year 2100, all products from
Toys and music to household appliances and automobiles will only be available online. This is why I predict this: Netflix has replaced rental stores like Blockbuster and Hollywood as the defalt place for most people to rent movies. This has caused many "brick and mortors" to shut down or drastically slash stock. Similar things are happening with music, as Itunes and other sites have replaced the local record shops as the places most people go. As a result, after being unable to find Weird Al's Latest Work "Alpocalypse" (2010) at Best Buy, I had to order it direct from his website, and I am sure most of us have experienced this phenomenon with at least some of our music.
The Joes, due to lack of exposure to kids through commercials and prime time shows and other reasons, are already starting to show signs of going Yankovic's way in stores, as most Brick and Mortors ( TRU, Target, Wallmart, ETC.) have already stopped carying them altogether, or drastically reduced their Joe Stocks and there has been an uptick in website exclusives like Amazon's Retailiation 4 Pk Or BBT's Dreadnok and Mauraders 7-PKs.

2100 you say? That's a bold prediction.

Let's reconvene in 2101 and compare notes.

[ndb]

Marketing needs to be totally revamped - when was the last time you saw a Hasbro G.I. Joe ad?

A new cartoon is essential - why did Resolute not become a series on Cartoon Network? Why didn't Renegades be an anchor show on the Hub?

How about a video game tie-in? Look at games like Ghost Recon: Future Soldier or any of the Call of Duty games, or even a real time strategy type game. Why not do a G.I. Joe version?

The IDW comics are cool, but there is a level of disconnect from the toys. I remember the latest toys and characters making appearances in the Marvel comic as they were released. The toys need a true comic tie-in that tell the story of the line.

And therein lies the problem. We all know the G.I. Joe tag line...but what does it all mean? How does this apply in the modern world we live in? What is the message...defending freedom or fighting terrorism? These are core messages that are the foundation of G.I. Joe that are not being made. Hasbro has missed the boat on this, and their schizo mentality with the Joe line the last 15 years has been the reason for angst among many fans. The 25th anniversary gave us what we wanted and reintroduced Joes to a new generation...they need to build upon that.

I agree with everything except I think that Resolute should not have been a tv series. A G.I.Joe show should be for kids.

[Dem_Yoe'z!]

They will realize their folly and go back to what worked, the 30th/POC-style figures. Distribution may be limited for a while though. I could see them taking a few figures from later Retaliation waves and rereleasing them in a new line (replacing any movie actor heads like they did with some of the ROC/POC figures like Zartan and Duke).

[kennywr22]

What hopefully happens is the movie does well and generates good toy sales. Then we get a nice follow up year with more movie type characters and some after movie ideas. Then a new cartoon based in the retaliation universe or somewhat similar with a great toy line along side it. I'm also pretty sure the figures will be closer to 30th style. I mean seriously retaliation wave 2 on are pretty much 30th style so not sure why so much gloom and doom.

[Jmacq1]

Marketing needs to be totally revamped - when was the last time you saw a Hasbro G.I. Joe ad?

The "marketing" landscape has changed. It's not as simple as "make ads." This isn't like the 80's when an advertisement played on weekday afternoons or Saturday mornings on the major networks was almost guaranteed to reach several million children. Now the "kid" audience is separated across multiple cable networks and there's really no "perfect" time or channel to spend the hundreds of thousands...if not millions...of dollars that it would cost to create and buy airtime for G.I. Joe television ads. We're talking a level of investment that would cost more than the development of the toys themselves. That's simply not cost-effective.

Even playing ads on the Hub isn't a perfect answer. Hasbro may not have to pay for that advertisement time, but any time they take for "themselves" is time that another advertiser that's actually paying them money is not getting, which hurts the health of the network.

A new cartoon is essential - why did Resolute not become a series on Cartoon Network? Why didn't Renegades be an anchor show on the Hub?

Hasbro can't force the Cartoon Network to pick up any show. Judging from CN's treatment of Resolute, they have little interest in the Joe brand (especially when they have their own brands to promote).

Renegades was badly mismanaged though, I don't think there's any doubt of that. Though it may be worth noting that if the original timelines for PoC had held firm, the cartoon and toylines might have unrolled at much closer to the same time.

How about a video game tie-in? Look at games like Ghost Recon: Future Soldier or any of the Call of Duty games, or even a real time strategy type game. Why not do a G.I. Joe version?

Video games don't necessarily sell action figures. Even a wildly successful video game doesn't automatically translate into action figures being sold. Further, G.I. Joe would have to bring a quality product (already the exception rather than the rule where licensed video games are concerned), to a crowded market (if people want to play Ghost Recon or Modern Warfare...they'll play Ghost Recon or Modern Warfare). Beyond that, because Hasbro isn't a video game company, it'd mean they have to license Joe to another company to make the game, and it's -that- company that would get the profits if it were successful.

A popular video game could boost brand awareness, which isn't a bad thing, but it's not likely to revitalize the toy line.

The IDW comics are cool, but there is a level of disconnect from the toys. I remember the latest toys and characters making appearances in the Marvel comic as they were released. The toys need a true comic tie-in that tell the story of the line.

Except that if there's a cartoon, that's what's there to "tell the story of the line." And honestly, the changes in how the toy -and- comic business operate over the last 30 years make the type of coordination that was once enjoyed pretty much impossible. It ain't the 80's anymore.

And therein lies the problem. We all know the G.I. Joe tag line...but what does it all mean? How does this apply in the modern world we live in? What is the message...defending freedom or fighting terrorism? These are core messages that are the foundation of G.I. Joe that are not being made. Hasbro has missed the boat on this, and their schizo mentality with the Joe line the last 15 years has been the reason for angst among many fans. The 25th anniversary gave us what we wanted and reintroduced Joes to a new generation...they need to build upon that.

Their "mentality" with the Joe line hasn't been any more "Schizo" than it's been with the wildly successful Transformers line. The only difference is that the "continual reinvention" recipe that's made billions with Transformers hasn't caught on with G.I. Joe.

Oh, and the 25th didn't "introduce Joes to a new generation" on any particularly significant level. It mostly sold to us (the old generation), which is why we continued to get "reinventions" afterwards (and continue to do so).

[ryogam]

I hate to be captain obvious, but nothing is going to revitalize GI Joe. Kids do not read comics because they are too expensive and can only be found in comic book stores, TV is too competitive, with too many shows chasing too few viewers, and movies do not sell toys like they used to. Further, kids, especially boys, do not play with toys like they used to, preferring video games. I do wonder if a GI Joe video game could attract kids into the toy isle, but it does not appear anyone wants to invest in a Joe video game to test it.

This is the end of the second renaissance for toys, the first being the 80s. We were damn lucky to get the 25th Anniversary Joes, and for them to release so many different figures and vehicles in such a short time. But we have to face facts: the collector niche is not profitable enough for Hasbro and it's unlikely that they can attract the kids they need to keep the line as fertile as they have. We need to expect fewer figures, and hope that Hasbro is willing to lose a little money to keep the brand name of GI Joe healthy.

[blayze5150]

I hate to be captain obvious, but nothing is going to revitalize GI Joe. Kids do not read comics because they are too expensive and can only be found in comic book stores, TV is too competitive, with too many shows chasing too few viewers, and movies do not sell toys like they used to. Further, kids, especially boys, do not play with toys like they used to, preferring video games. I do wonder if a GI Joe video game could attract kids into the toy isle, but it does not appear anyone wants to invest in a Joe video game to test it.

This is the end of the second renaissance for toys, the first being the 80s. We were damn lucky to get the 25th Anniversary Joes, and for them to release so many different figures and vehicles in such a short time. But we have to face facts: the collector niche is not profitable enough for Hasbro and it's unlikely that they can attract the kids they need to keep the line as fertile as they have. We need to expect fewer figures, and hope that Hasbro is willing to lose a little money to keep the brand name of GI Joe healthy.
I don't think it's a money loser, but I somewhat agree.