are we contributing to our own demise?

[youdoitimbusy]

This morning my nephew came over before school because his mom had something to do taday. Ill give you a little backround on his intrests toy wise. When he was younger he was huge on the cars toys, due to the movie. As he grew up, he moved onto transformers, due to the movie. I have tried to get him into gi joe. I have bought him some figures ext. Fast forward back to this morning. I brought him into my room to show him my collection, its been awhile sence he saw it last and I have picked up some pieces. He is 7 or 8, and last we spoke he had expressed intrest in "the ninjas". I asked him if there were any figures specifically that he liked, because I want to buy him some that he will play with. His jaw dropped when he saw the renegades storm shadow. My heart sunk a little bit, because I'm not dropping like 40 bucks for a single figure. I explained the rarity, he understood. I asked if there were any others he liked. The red ninja was next. So I'm going to try and find him one along with a few others.

So I got to thinking. What are the odds of this kid with one parent ever finding any of the "coolest figures" on the shelves to really spark his intrest. I know for a fact that the chance of any child beating me to a store on the right day and time to get the cool figures is slim to none. So my question is simple. Are we in our love for gi. Joe adding to the prevention of the next generation from gitting involved with the best toy line of all time?

I'm not asking about hasbros marketing or distribution, I think we can all agree that plays a part.

[Raw Dog]

I don't think so. If all of a sudden the adult collector market dried up, and all of the coolest figures we would have purchased were suddenly hanging off the pegs, and kids subsequently purchased those figures, I don't think that would be enough to reenergise a Joe Renesaince.

[Cdt Weasel]

Well if retaliation Roadblock, Snake Eyes or Storm Shadow are his faves then he should have no problem. Otherwise this is called toy collecting, not toy sharing.

[sharky]

I don't see how that is creating our own demise. I mean, at some point we'll all be dead, so who cares if there is GI Joe after that. F the next generation. :D

[bumbarusher]

This is a really interesting observation. The obvious reaction is the discredit this thought and pin the blame on hasbro. As cliche as it is, i still feel it is correct.

When i was a child, i watched G.i. joe on television EVERY saturday morning. The movie and the mini-series were EVENTS. The toys were debuted in the Sears Wishbook, which was essentially everyone's default christmas list. When i went to the mall with my family, the pegs were RIFE with joe figures and vehicles.

Where is the joe cartoon now? if a kid isnt buying 'diamond', 'toy fare', 'wizard' or reading a forum like this one, where does he find out about the figures? When's the last time you were at a store and saw a joe figure selection that COULDNT be fit onto a single peg?

Things are different now. I think those of us who remember joe from our childhoods are the only ones who are going to really support the franchise. i think hasbro realizes that as well, with the push towards more mature depictions in resolute, and to a lesser extent, in renegades.

Probably the best shot they have at getting new fans is to target a teen audience with a syndicated resolute, but you know that wont happen. They might be aware of the shifting demographic, but they arent quite smart enough to capitalize on it.

[youdoitimbusy]

Well if retaliation Roadblock, Snake Eyes or Storm Shadow are his faves then he should have no problem. Otherwise this is called toy collecting, not toy sharing.

That's my whole point. Kids don't collect, they play. When they are at the store with their parents begging them to buy a toy and there are 9 arctic destros why would he choose gi joe? Kids have the same taste as us in toys believe it or not. I still think a lot of the same figures I liked as a. Kid are cool. The difference is back then they were plentiful.

[Raw Dog]

I don't think it's Hasbro's fault. I think it is more of a societal issue. Society associates GI Joe with the military, and as much as we love our troops here in America, I don't think society wants to promote the military, concepts like war and the like, to it's children. If GI Joe could distance itself from its real world inspiration, and associate itself with a more fantastic struggle between good and evil, then I think it would do better.

[spiderpumpkin]

deleted

[skinny]

That's my whole point. Kids don't collect, they play. When they are at the store with their parents begging them to buy a toy and there are 9 arctic destros why would he choose gi joe? Kids have the same taste as us in toys believe it or not. I still think a lot of the same figures I liked as a. Kid are cool. The difference is back then they were plentiful.

there was also only one assortment a year, and cases were 36 or 48 figures a case (I think I read that somewhere)

[youdoitimbusy]

I agree with you also bumbarusher. I think if we had a maketplace specifically for collectors to purchase individual joes...I.E. what should be hasbro toyshop. This would allow for us to pre order our fill at cost. While leaving the figures on the pegs for kids. I know it would ruin the thrill of the hunt. It would also ruin some online stores. It would however, give a better measurable sales result for collectors and kids, in theory. I'm sure some would still rat pick the shelves though. This would also crush the scalpers for the most part. Hasbro would have a better idea how many of a specific figure to make, if we could pre order in advance after an unrefundable payment. Think about it. Its no real storage cost to them. They just ship factory direct to your home.

[Jmacq1]

This is a really interesting observation. The obvious reaction is the discredit this thought and pin the blame on hasbro. As cliche as it is, i still feel it is correct.

When i was a child, i watched G.i. joe on television EVERY saturday morning. The movie and the mini-series were EVENTS. The toys were debuted in the Sears Wishbook, which was essentially everyone's default christmas list. When i went to the mall with my family, the pegs were RIFE with joe figures and vehicles.

Where is the joe cartoon now? if a kid isnt buying 'diamond', 'toy fare', 'wizard' or reading a forum like this one, where does he find out about the figures? When's the last time you were at a store and saw a joe figure selection that COULDNT be fit onto a single peg?

Things are different now. I think those of us who remember joe from our childhoods are the only ones who are going to really support the franchise. i think hasbro realizes that as well, with the push towards more mature depictions in resolute, and to a lesser extent, in renegades.

Probably the best shot they have at getting new fans is to target a teen audience with a syndicated resolute, but you know that wont happen. They might be aware of the shifting demographic, but they arent quite smart enough to capitalize on it.

Except teenagers aren't usually inclined to buying action figures, and no amount of television programming is likely to change that inclination on an individual basis. It's the same with adult collectors. Adults who are inclined to buy toys are generally already collectors...we're a tiny minority of adults.

The reason Hasbro wants to target kids is because by targeting kids you end up with a possibility that today's "kid" is tomorrow's "adult collector." Whereas trying to "grow" the teenager or adult market is a dead end, as far as the toy line goes.

Put another way: You could have a very successful TV show, but if it's not getting toys sold in greater numbers, it's not doing what Hasbro wants for the brand. The same argument generally applies to the "G.I. Joe needs a good video game to save it!" argument that sometimes crops up. A video game might be good for brand awareness, but it's not going to make people that don't buy toys buy toys, no matter how good it is.

[VideoViper]

You are the cause of your own suffering..... (Lost referance)

Honestly I remember trying to find the red Jet (starscream) for my nephew a few years ago & my parents laughed at me because in the 80s they ran around looking for whatever special impossible to find toy I wanted that Christmas/birthday.

Its always hard to find the cool toys, It was easier when more places carried stuff & there wasn't a place called Ebay where anyone can open up a "store" & sell to a target audience.

[bumbarusher]

jmacq1, you make a very valid point. And whomever mentioned (im retarded at the internet) the idea that we no longer want to promote our military i think is also on the money to a certain extent, and that is really sad. The mere fact that the ROC movie felt the need to make G.I. Joe an "international unit" is proof of this weakness. Its like we're trying to condition the new generations to shy away from any pride in being american.

but i digress. OP, what describe as an alternative method for hasbro to sell joes sounds really apt. In fact, it sounds like Hasbro should consider kickstarter'ing their new figures or sets. Then collectors could guarantee additions to their collections, and hasbro could make closer to the actual number demanded, and thus increase profit margins. yeah?

[Headman]

You don't know how old your nephew is?

[Steevy Maximus]

but i digress. OP, what describe as an alternative method for hasbro to sell joes sounds really apt. In fact, it sounds like Hasbro should consider kickstarter'ing their new figures or sets. Then collectors could guarantee additions to their collections, and hasbro could make closer to the actual number demanded, and thus increase profit margins. yeah?

But that raises a big issue with Joe collectors (especially Joe collectors): as a whole, Joe collectors are CHEAP. This has been an issue going back to the start of the modern collector era in 2000.

Fans are bitching about the price on convention sets, which feature fan-demanded figures which are VERY unlikely to see release at retail. The current run on the set is 600. The average retail run is well in excess of 10,000
The Club is largely the venue by which limited run, fan demanded product SHOULD be produced through. Hasbro will NOT screw around with production runs less than 5,000, and with those kinds of low runs, figures will NOT cost retail (which is the crux of most complaints on club stuff).

[Headman]

But that raises a big issue with Joe collectors (especially Joe collectors): as a whole, Joe collectors are CHEAP. This has been an issue going back to the start of the modern collector era in 2000.

Fans are bitching about the price on convention sets, which feature fan-demanded figures which are VERY unlikely to see release at retail. The current run on the set is 600. The average retail run is well in excess of 10,000
The Club is largely the venue by which limited run, fan demanded product SHOULD be produced through. Hasbro will NOT screw around with production runs less than 5,000, and with those kinds of low runs, figures will NOT cost retail (which is the crux of most complaints on club stuff).

I'm not cheap but everybody else is. Bastards.

[RogueWingnut]

I'm not cheap but everybody else is. Bastards.

Came for the Headman comment
Leaving satisfied.

[sonoftimmy]

I don't think it's Hasbro's fault. I think it is more of a societal issue. Society associates GI Joe with the military, and as much as we love our troops here in America, I don't think society wants to promote the military, concepts like war and the like, to it's children. If GI Joe could distance itself from its real world inspiration, and associate itself with a more fantastic struggle between good and evil, then I think it would do better.

Interesting, I wonder if this one reason why Joe got more sci-fi as it went on in the 80s.

Growing up watching the TV show in the 80s I never really thought of GI Joe as an army or military organization. I thought of the GI Joe team as a real life superhero group or a realistic superhero group. A team that had no real super powers, were real people that were heroes and acted like superheroes. The military unit and weapons were in the background for me, it was the heroes and the heroic action that I noticed.

If it is the case that Joe needs to be less real life military and Hasbro realizes this, maybe instead of Hasbro making GI Joe more Ninja and less military, they should make the Joe team more like super spies. Maybe a SHEILD type concept would play better for a GI Joe Team. It’s a better idea than turning everyone into a Ninja IMO.

[bumbarusher]

steevy, that would be the point of kickstartering the figures. You say 'we make it if 10k people buy in, or if we hit this price point via variable amount investors.'

it guarantees you cover your production costs, make a certain percentage of profit, et. al. If it fails, there's no loss.

[Flint Faireborn]

I think another issue is that parents these days try to shield their kids from violent shows and toys...

GI Joe being war based as opposed to more fantasy based is most likely hindering.

[minstrelboy]

Since myself along with countless others have yet to see Ret.SS in the wild let alone buy one, I can say it's not our fault. If it were there to purchase, Hasbro and The Joe franchise would be making more money, but since it isn't they're outshined by other lines that are more readily available. 2 + 2 = 4.

[Zoomie2001]

Well, as far as I am concerned, the kids can have all the Retaliation figures they want. I won't be buying any of that crap anyway...

[sharky]

Since myself along with countless others have yet to see Ret.SS in the wild let alone buy one, I can say it's not our fault. If it were there to purchase, Hasbro and The Joe franchise would be making more money, but since it isn't they're outshined by other lines that are more readily available. 2 + 2 = 4.
You really can't find SS? He's one of the pegwarmers around here. The Joe and Cobra troopers are the main hot ones. CC and Zartan to a lesser degree.

[Ford]

Yes, adults are killing toys. When we were kids, toys were toys and grown men didn't buy them. Now toys are "collectibles", and kids don't buy them, because they can't find any of the good ones on store shelves. The Renegades Storm Shadow is a very good example. Back in the 80's, Storm Shadow was the figure to have because he looked cool and came with a lot of weapons. It's the same thing today. Only I would bet my left nut that 99% of them purchased were by grown men, for themselves. Kids aren't falling in love with G.I. Joe like we all did. Thirty years from now, it will be guys in their mid sixties keeping the brand alive, not thirty year olds. And definitely not kids.

What Hasbro needs to do is finally cut the cord and start over. Create all new characters, and retire all the ones we grew up with. They can make a budget line, like the Dollar General figures or even the Retaliation figures, with just a simple figure, and minimal weapons. Then make an online-exclusive figure, decked out with every weapon possible and simple extras like a stand or "build a figure" piece for $17 or so, just for adults.

[Lody]

This morning my nephew came over before school because his mom had something to do taday. Ill give you a little backround on his intrests toy wise. When he was younger he was huge on the cars toys, due to the movie. As he grew up, he moved onto transformers, due to the movie. I have tried to get him into gi joe. I have bought him some figures ext. Fast forward back to this morning. I brought him into my room to show him my collection, its been awhile sence he saw it last and I have picked up some pieces. He is 7 or 8, and last we spoke he had expressed intrest in "the ninjas". I asked him if there were any figures specifically that he liked, because I want to buy him some that he will play with. His jaw dropped when he saw the renegades storm shadow. My heart sunk a little bit, because I'm not dropping like 40 bucks for a single figure. I explained the rarity, he understood. I asked if there were any others he liked. The red ninja was next. So I'm going to try and find him one along with a few others.

So I got to thinking. What are the odds of this kid with one parent ever finding any of the "coolest figures" on the shelves to really spark his intrest. I know for a fact that the chance of any child beating me to a store on the right day and time to get the cool figures is slim to none. So my question is simple. Are we in our love for gi. Joe adding to the prevention of the next generation from gitting involved with the best toy line of all time?

I'm not asking about hasbros marketing or distribution, I think we can all agree that plays a part.

I dont think that the Retalation Storm Shadows are that bad. I am just not picking any of them up as I have enough Storm Shadows.

My kids love toys because I love toys.

They love me because I actually play with the toys with them.

[Lody]

Since myself along with countless others have yet to see Ret.SS in the wild let alone buy one, I can say it's not our fault. If it were there to purchase, Hasbro and The Joe franchise would be making more money, but since it isn't they're outshined by other lines that are more readily available. 2 + 2 = 4.

Are you serious?

I am looking to get rid of the Storm Shadow from the three pack with Snake Eyes and Slice

PM if interested

[Ford]

I'm pretty sure he's confused Ren(egades) with Ret(aliation).

Why the hell does every Joe line start with "R" anyway? There was Resolute too! What's left? "Retribution"? "Revolution"?

[theprocess]

I'm pretty sure he's confused Ren(egades) with Ret(aliation).

Why the hell does every Joe line start with "R" anyway? There was Resolute too! What's left? "Retribution"? "Revolution"?

Recycle, restoration, reinvention, just to name a few. I almost forgot...
RIP.

[Steevy Maximus]

steevy, that would be the point of kickstartering the figures. You say 'we make it if 10k people buy in, or if we hit this price point via variable amount investors.'

it guarantees you cover your production costs, make a certain percentage of profit, et. al. If it fails, there's no loss.
But Joe fans want to SEE what they are putting their money into, and they don't want to wait 6-8 months to get it.
Joe fans are not only cheap, but toy collectors in general are "short sighted", in that when they lose interest in something, they move on to another.

The Kickstarter would fail because there are not only NOT a lot of JOe fans, but by the time the toy was actually in production, most would have moved on to the newest things out there.

That was the issue the with Hall of Heroes: Collectors voted based on what was hot AT THE TIME, but by the time the assortment was released ONE YEAR later, most had moved on to other toys, or no longer wanted the characters THEY VOTED FOR.

I thought of the GI Joe team as a real life superhero group or a realistic superhero group. A team that had no real super powers, were real people that were heroes and acted like superheroes. The military unit and weapons were in the background for me, it was the heroes and the heroic action that I noticed.

This was actually an apt description I heard being bandied around back in 2004. And you saw that in figure design as many had very "superhero" proportions and designs (which carried very well into the Sigma Six efforts)

As cool as PoC was...I think it was still a little too grounded. One of the things I'm glad to see with Retaliation was a return to the "quasi-superhero" design elements, and think it would have sold pretty well even without the movie.

[CrimsonGuard101]

If the joes came with IPhones or Ipads and 45 free song downloads they might sell better then spring loaded missile crap...but then again it will just be the Ipad or Iphone selling the toy which will get tossed as soon as the kid downloads his 45 free songs ...

[Headman]

Recycle, restoration, reinvention, just to name a few. I almost forgot...
RIP.

Don't forget "Reboot".

[GI Guppy the third]

Well. I think that's more of an issue with Hasbro. If they would make the coolest figures the most available they wouldn't have a problem. But they apparently have quotas to meet with duke, se, rb, and ss.

[Slaymaker]

I'm pretty sure he's confused Ren(egades) with Ret(aliation).

Why the hell does every Joe line start with "R" anyway? There was Resolute too! What's left? "Retribution"? "Revolution"?

Real American Hero? :p

[Cobra Terrorist]

To the OP's initial statement...

I've had this thought before actually. I wondered if some kid would be denied a cool figure because greedy CT bought them all. But the more I think about it....I don't think so.

I spend a lot of time in the toy aisle (obviously), and I have NEVER seen a kid even look at G.I.Joe figures. ONE time a Mom suggested Joes to her son, and he gave a very dismissive "No.", and moved on to something else.

So it's kind of a bummer that this is a non-issue, because I would love that kids today are amped for G.I.Joe like we were (and are).

[Nightrain]

The reason Hasbro wants to target kids is because by targeting kids you end up with a possibility that today's "kid" is tomorrow's "adult collector."

But collectors are irrelevant, correct? So why would they want to attract children in the hopes of attracting an irrelevant demographic in the future?

Yes, adults are killing toys. When we were kids, toys were toys and grown men didn't buy them. Now toys are "collectibles", and kids don't buy them, because they can't find any of the good ones on store shelves. The Renegades Storm Shadow is a very good example. Back in the 80's, Storm Shadow was the figure to have because he looked cool and came with a lot of weapons. It's the same thing today. Only I would bet my left nut that 99% of them purchased were by grown men, for themselves. Kids aren't falling in love with G.I. Joe like we all did. Thirty years from now, it will be guys in their mid sixties keeping the brand alive, not thirty year olds. And definitely not kids.

What Hasbro needs to do is finally cut the cord and start over. Create all new characters, and retire all the ones we grew up with. They can make a budget line, like the Dollar General figures or even the Retaliation figures, with just a simple figure, and minimal weapons. Then make an online-exclusive figure, decked out with every weapon possible and simple extras like a stand or "build a figure" piece for $17 or so, just for adults.

I couldn't agree more with all of that. That's why I keep wanting so bad for the current GI Joe to "die". It needs to die and take a break. What we are witnessing right now is torture of the brand.

[Cobra Terrorist]

What Hasbro needs to do is finally cut the cord and start over. Create all new characters, and retire all the ones we grew up with.

Yeah...I would be on board with an all-new Joe concept.


Oh hey, this reminds me of a thought I had last night. I hope I'm not derailing the thread but, in general, we're talking about the future of Joe here...

What about changing the brand's name?

[spiderpumpkin]

deleted

[Nightrain]

What about changing the brand's name?

Interesting...

[sparks007]

In some ways I think we are ,but the supply being so low on these figures is a major contributor. Now the movie line is different. Let the kids buy those.

[JediJones]

It's not just collectors, looking at the quantity of figures shipped to stores these days, it would take only a small number of kids compared to the kids in the '80s to clear off the shelves. I still see moms in stores looking for Luke Skywalker figures as recently as a month ago. They always sell out quick, even when Hasbro does bother shipping them. So if us buying out the pegs isn't enough to get stores to restock, kids buying out the pegs won't help either. The vast majority of the potential consumers will still walk in and find nothing to buy.

Rise of Cobra figures were the one time Hasbro shipped enough to make the figures consistently easy to find. Kids didn't seem to develop a big interest in the line when those figures were available. So it will take more than distribution to get kids interested.

[JediJones]

I spend a lot of time in the toy aisle (obviously), and I have NEVER seen a kid even look at G.I.Joe figures. ONE time a Mom suggested Joes to her son, and he gave a very dismissive "No.", and moved on to something else.
I've seen a kid looking through the pegs at TRU excitedly talking to his parents about which figures he was looking for earlier this year. Another kid was looking at the pegs at Target and asked me to hand him Law and Order from the top peg. So there is some interest out there. However, the nature of it is such that these kids probably have the "collector" mentality and will grow up to be collectors. The brand doesn't seem to be attracting the real casual kid who just wants to play with the things.

As for distribution, I believe a lot of kids get their parents to buy them the toys they want online now. I've known some getting Harry Potter figures who seemed to have gotten most of them online, and often paid a lot for them. So I think kids would be able to find the figures they want even if they weren't in store. The problem is, when Hasbro doesn't make enough, the prices online are high. Just like I had to save my pennies up to buy G.I. Joe #1 at the comic shop for $20 in the '80s. So it doesn't really matter who buys what in the stores. If Hasbro makes enough, kids who really want them will get their parents to buy them online. And as long as a high quantity is made, they WILL end up online for a reasonable price. It is simply up to Hasbro to make enough figures. And us buying the figures in any quantity can only help encourage them to make more.

[Syn3sthesia]

Kids and joes...gtfo.

Maybe Ben 10 and that Bakugan shit.

[Zarana]

I tell kids that gi Joe sucks so they wont buy any of the figures I want.

[Xsoldier]

This morning my nephew came over before school because his mom had something to do taday. Ill give you a little backround on his intrests toy wise. When he was younger he was huge on the cars toys, due to the movie. As he grew up, he moved onto transformers, due to the movie. I have tried to get him into gi joe. I have bought him some figures ext. Fast forward back to this morning. I brought him into my room to show him my collection, its been awhile sence he saw it last and I have picked up some pieces. He is 7 or 8, and last we spoke he had expressed intrest in "the ninjas". I asked him if there were any figures specifically that he liked, because I want to buy him some that he will play with. His jaw dropped when he saw the renegades storm shadow. My heart sunk a little bit, because I'm not dropping like 40 bucks for a single figure. I explained the rarity, he understood. I asked if there were any others he liked. The red ninja was next. So I'm going to try and find him one along with a few others.

So I got to thinking. What are the odds of this kid with one parent ever finding any of the "coolest figures" on the shelves to really spark his intrest. I know for a fact that the chance of any child beating me to a store on the right day and time to get the cool figures is slim to none. So my question is simple. Are we in our love for gi. Joe adding to the prevention of the next generation from gitting involved with the best toy line of all time?

I'm not asking about hasbros marketing or distribution, I think we can all agree that plays a part.


I will gladly donate $10 to a renegades 4 pack for the boy. I'm sure you can find a couple others. Then he gets his ninjas... plus some :).

[Xsoldier]

I couldn't agree more with all of that. That's why I keep wanting so bad for the current GI Joe to "die". It needs to die and take a break. What we are witnessing right now is torture of the brand.

You mean like SGT Savage?

[rglass2]

No, items sale regardless of the age that is buying them...when I was a kid and wanted a particular toy I knew how to bribe and sweet talk my folks into taking me to several locations to look for one.

[Dealer Destro]

To the OP's initial statement...

I've had this thought before actually. I wondered if some kid would be denied a cool figure because greedy CT bought them all. But the more I think about it....I don't think so.

I spend a lot of time in the toy aisle (obviously), and I have NEVER seen a kid even look at G.I.Joe figures. ONE time a Mom suggested Joes to her son, and he gave a very dismissive "No.", and moved on to something else.

So it's kind of a bummer that this is a non-issue, because I would love that kids today are amped for G.I.Joe like we were (and are).


Same here! Except I never see the kids, I just see the 'locals' (the hisstank people I bump into while hitting the aisles; the term is not to be received as labeling or demeaning in any way.)

[footloose]

when i was a kid i generally got to chose from peg warmers, but i stayed in. then again i had a kickass grandfather that kept a list of figures i wanted in his wallet. how cool is that.
why was i so into gi joe? i had a kickass cartoon to watch and a comic to read, plus a wall of gi joe toys at the store to chose from.

[Angry.Android]

This is a really interesting observation. The obvious reaction is the discredit this thought and pin the blame on hasbro. As cliche as it is, i still feel it is correct.

When i was a child, i watched G.i. joe on television EVERY saturday morning. The movie and the mini-series were EVENTS. The toys were debuted in the Sears Wishbook, which was essentially everyone's default christmas list. When i went to the mall with my family, the pegs were RIFE with joe figures and vehicles.

Where is the joe cartoon now? if a kid isnt buying 'diamond', 'toy fare', 'wizard' or reading a forum like this one, where does he find out about the figures? When's the last time you were at a store and saw a joe figure selection that COULDNT be fit onto a single peg?

Things are different now. I think those of us who remember joe from our childhoods are the only ones who are going to really support the franchise. i think hasbro realizes that as well, with the push towards more mature depictions in resolute, and to a lesser extent, in renegades.

Probably the best shot they have at getting new fans is to target a teen audience with a syndicated resolute, but you know that wont happen. They might be aware of the shifting demographic, but they arent quite smart enough to capitalize on it.

pretty much this, times have changed so much and it seems like GIJoe is stuck in the 80s as far as business model goes. They need to kick that ARAH shit loose, its old and dead. Revamp the team concept, have all new characters. Then grow your freaking brand. Cool toys are only a small fraction...you have to advertise that crap.a cartoon is nice but if it isn't accessible then it's worthless. They need to be aggressively advertising on the web, create social games on facebook, make facebook pages for the characters, and then cross promote! its not rocket science.

That's my whole point. Kids don't collect, they play. When they are at the store with their parents begging them to buy a toy and there are 9 arctic destros why would he choose gi joe? Kids have the same taste as us in toys believe it or not. I still think a lot of the same figures I liked as a. Kid are cool. The difference is back then they were plentiful.

Eh, i still remember many,many trips to multiple toy stores as a kid trying to find v2 se or v1 ss and coming away empty handed. i eventually got the figures at a flea market of all places, carded. I had to beg my grandma to front me the cash ($5 a piece back in 86, at a flea market). I wound up doing double chores and mowing many yards to pay off those. but it was like finding a damn gold brick. I will never, never forget that day. I still have SE, i take him with me on job interviews, he rode shotgun at my SATs. kind of a good luck charm. My little brother has my Stormshadow, still, to this day. carries it with him everywhere. When he was incarcerated, it was the only possession he was worried about not getting back when he was released. I just don't see memories like these being created in our current society. We seem so jaded. I hope my kids have something like this. i hope.

I don't think it's Hasbro's fault. I think it is more of a societal issue. Society associates GI Joe with the military, and as much as we love our troops here in America, I don't think society wants to promote the military, concepts like war and the like, to it's children. If GI Joe could distance itself from its real world inspiration, and associate itself with a more fantastic struggle between good and evil, then I think it would do better.
i would say you are probably right

there was also only one assortment a year, and cases were 36 or 48 figures a case (I think I read that somewhere)

I don't remember how many came in a case, but i do fondly remember the same guys being available all year. not this month or two crap we get now. the waves are rushed through so fast, you have no time to appreciate what you got until you're chasing the next one.

I agree with you also bumbarusher. I think if we had a maketplace specifically for collectors to purchase individual joes...I.E. what should be hasbro toyshop. This would allow for us to pre order our fill at cost. While leaving the figures on the pegs for kids. I know it would ruin the thrill of the hunt. It would also ruin some online stores. It would however, give a better measurable sales result for collectors and kids, in theory. I'm sure some would still rat pick the shelves though. This would also crush the scalpers for the most part. Hasbro would have a better idea how many of a specific figure to make, if we could pre order in advance after an unrefundable payment. Think about it. Its no real storage cost to them. They just ship factory direct to your home.

i think as 3d printing technology gets better and more affordable, we may get to the "on demand" place of sales, where we order what we want, and the template is printed on the fly, packed and shipped. would be awesome, no?

Except teenagers aren't usually inclined to buying action figures, and no amount of television programming is likely to change that inclination on an individual basis. It's the same with adult collectors. Adults who are inclined to buy toys are generally already collectors...we're a tiny minority of adults.

The reason Hasbro wants to target kids is because by targeting kids you end up with a possibility that today's "kid" is tomorrow's "adult collector." Whereas trying to "grow" the teenager or adult market is a dead end, as far as the toy line goes.

Put another way: You could have a very successful TV show, but if it's not getting toys sold in greater numbers, it's not doing what Hasbro wants for the brand. The same argument generally applies to the "G.I. Joe needs a good video game to save it!" argument that sometimes crops up. A video game might be good for brand awareness, but it's not going to make people that don't buy toys buy toys, no matter how good it is.

pretty much, in order for toys to survive, they are going to have to integrate with social media trends and microgaming. Screw a cartoon, make webisodes, interactive "virtual" comic books, social media promotion. Make gijoe something they can play with in the yards with toys, with their friends on smart phones, on their pc after school,etc. it needs to be persistently integrated into kids lives in order to thrive.

You are the cause of your own suffering..... (Lost referance)

Honestly I remember trying to find the red Jet (starscream) for my nephew a few years ago & my parents laughed at me because in the 80s they ran around looking for whatever special impossible to find toy I wanted that Christmas/birthday.

Its always hard to find the cool toys, It was easier when more places carried stuff & there wasn't a place called Ebay where anyone can open up a "store" & sell to a target audience.
yes it was. SS and SE gave me a hell of a time back in the day, and i remember begging for months for snake armor, or the bat. and finally getting them on my birthday or at easter.

Interesting, I wonder if this one reason why Joe got more sci-fi as it went on in the 80s.

Growing up watching the TV show in the 80s I never really thought of GI Joe as an army or military organization. I thought of the GI Joe team as a real life superhero group or a realistic superhero group. A team that had no real super powers, were real people that were heroes and acted like superheroes. The military unit and weapons were in the background for me, it was the heroes and the heroic action that I noticed.

If it is the case that Joe needs to be less real life military and Hasbro realizes this, maybe instead of Hasbro making GI Joe more Ninja and less military, they should make the Joe team more like super spies. Maybe a SHEILD type concept would play better for a GI Joe Team. It’s a better idea than turning everyone into a Ninja IMO.

A shield-esque unit would be interesting. they would need non people entities to fight though...aliens, mutants, robots...something other than people.

when i was a kid i generally got to chose from peg warmers, but i stayed in. then again i had a kickass grandfather that kept a list of figures i wanted in his wallet. how cool is that.
why was i so into gi joe? i had a kickass cartoon to watch and a comic to read, plus a wall of gi joe toys at the store to chose from.

yeah, as a kid i was dead on for the toon, and later the comic book. but i also made other media into joespecific. I remember recreating aliens with joe figures back in the day, or using my joes to "play" Commando while watching the same movie on the sunday matinee tv broadcast. I don't know that joe is still relevant to the other stuff kids are into these days.

[Angry.Android]

when i was a kid i generally got to chose from peg warmers, but i stayed in. then again i had a kickass grandfather that kept a list of figures i wanted in his wallet. how cool is that.
why was i so into gi joe? i had a kickass cartoon to watch and a comic to read, plus a wall of gi joe toys at the store to chose from.

your sig is badassed btw, just saying

[abesapien2]

there was also only one assortment a year, and cases were 36 or 48 figures a case (I think I read that somewhere)

Interesting enough, there were two assortments a year in the 80s. First half and second half. The first half started showing up before Christmas and the second later on... I remember how much I loved those cardbacks and planning which figures I would buy. Ah, the days when we knew what the entire year would bring... How I wish that was so right now.

[pstearman]

na I'd blame it on scalpers if anybody . that is the number one cause around here . they hit walmart everynight as soon as stock is taken to the floor. and then target while all us working folk are well working

[footloose]

your sig is badassed btw, just saying

thanx.....i use to act out various movies with my joes as well. now that i think bout it, the way i played with my joes was influenced more by other movies then the joe cartoon or comics. i always used there names but it was my universe, my story, my adventure.
and my IMAGINATION..

[Havok]

I agree with the other tankers that say its not Hasbro's fault. The fault lies in the stores just not stocking a lot of toys. So of course the popular figures will sell out quickly.

[bumbarusher]

not to beat a dead horse, but kickstarter is not a voting process, it's monetary investment. If it took 6mo+ to make the figure, it wouldnt matter, because those who were interested at the time have already pledged their money. Perhaps im not explaining it correctly, but im sure google could fill in the gaps.

in any case, the excuse of collectors losing interest and being short sighted are pretty arbitrary. People moving on to the next thing? this franchise has been around for decades and we're still hooked, so i cant really agree with you on that one.

[lardman]

I don't think it's Hasbro's fault. I think it is more of a societal issue. Society associates GI Joe with the military, and as much as we love our troops here in America, I don't think society wants to promote the military, concepts like war and the like, to it's children. If GI Joe could distance itself from its real world inspiration, and associate itself with a more fantastic struggle between good and evil, then I think it would do better.

I've read that the backlash against the Vietnam war changed the original 12" GI Joe from a military figure into an "Adventure team" figure, I've no idea what that did to sales figures in general. Presumably this left-over anti-military feeling amongst parents was the reason the GI Joe comic was rather sci-fi based originally.

In the UK we didn't have this sentiment, and Action Man and Action Force was a military force. I'm too young to know what the reaction was to the Falklands war and whether that had any positive or negative effect on parents' perceptions and willingness to buy military toys (but it was a short and victorious war, which would perhaps edge towards the positive).

Interestingly the HM Armed Forces line has apparently been doing pretty well over here, despite the Gulf Wars and Afghanistan (e.g. HM Armed Forces Action Figures (http://kcent247.hubpages.com/hub/HM-Armed-Forces-Action-Figures)).


What Hasbro needs to do is finally cut the cord and start over. Create all new characters, and retire all the ones we grew up with. They can make a budget line, like the Dollar General figures or even the Retaliation figures, with just a simple figure, and minimal weapons. Then make an online-exclusive figure, decked out with every weapon possible and simple extras like a stand or "build a figure" piece for $17 or so, just for adults.

I don't think new characters are necessarily required, as kids don't know the current ones anyway. What is necessary is different uniforms, kit, backstories (yeah, filecards were useful Hasbro) and then if one goes this far perhaps new characters are a natural progression.

While it's great as a "collector" to have lots of kit with a figure, when I was a kid I didn't really care all that much, I'd often make my own weapons and kit to go with the figures. I'd prefer less kit/weapons in each pack (and them therefore being a bit cheaper) and the option to buy accessory packs.


Oh hey, this reminds me of a thought I had last night. I hope I'm not derailing the thread but, in general, we're talking about the future of Joe here...

What about changing the brand's name?

I think for sales abroad, localising the name and characters (if we ever get filecards back) would be a good thing - this is what we had in the 80s and was far more appealing to us non-US kids than everyone being American ;)

This is more troublesome with things like comics (Marvel UK actually wrote their own and wove them into the ARAH story line to support the international aspect), and especially the movie (and we can see that the last attempt didn't sit well with anyone in particular re internationalisation of characters.)

thanx.....i use to act out various movies with my joes as well. now that i think bout it, the way i played with my joes was influenced more by other movies then the joe cartoon or comics. i always used there names but it was my universe, my story, my adventure.
and my IMAGINATION..

+1 I'd split 50-50% between aspects of the Marvel comic line and using my Action Force/GI Joe as pure military troops based on whatever was in the news or the recent past (Vietnam, Falklands, the Russian Afghanistan invasion, Gulf war, etc.)

[Stock Viper]

I don't think it's Hasbro's fault. I think it is more of a societal issue. Society associates GI Joe with the military, and as much as we love our troops here in America, I don't think society wants to promote the military, concepts like war and the like, to it's children. If GI Joe could distance itself from its real world inspiration, and associate itself with a more fantastic struggle between good and evil, then I think it would do better.

That's an interesting idea, but unfortunatly three letters disprove you're theory: COD. Kids and parents seem to have zero problem with realistic depictions of military forces, hell Ive sold more than my fair share of copies of Modern Warfare and Battlefield to parents for their 10 and under children, and none of them even bat an eye when Ive explained the content of the game. Video games are playing a huge part in the death of toys. When we were younger action figures were our only real option, but now kids have an Xbox or Playstation before they learn their times tables. How can you expect little plastic men to compete with full on virtual interaction with realistic weapons and war zones? And you know we would have ignored Joes and everything else if we had the same option at that age.

The thing is though its not completely hopeless. Skylanders is selling an insane amount of plastic to children, so the interest seems to still be there. Maybe a cross between GI Joe and Call of Duty where you have to buy the figures to unlock the character in the game is what we need, but besides that nothing short of a global EMP is going to tear kids away from video games long enough to use the imagination it takes to really enjoy toys again. Until then if there are no collectors to buy the toys like GI Joe and keep them profitable to produce toy aisle will be completely over run by movie tie in crap (even more then now) until even that stops selling well enough and all we're left with are Hot Wheels and Lego.

[Troynos]

In a way yes, because we buy up the good figures, that leaves the scraps for others.

Do we really want Arctic Destro to represent the Joe brand to potential new fans?

[figureware]

It has bothered me since Storm Shadow came out for the 30th. Why so few? Every other wave of every other line had tons of them. I thought it was too expensive to produce...then I saw Red Ninja and black ninja...and theres your answer! Hasbro knew it needed ninjas! and SS was short changed due to the upcoming movie figs. I have three Reds so far and plan on having 6 all together as well as 6 black ninja! (you know if Hasbro produces them) and they better...all the ninja crap over the years and never black ninjas probably due to Snake Eyes! Kids like Ninjas and they like them in black!

[youdoitimbusy]

It has bothered me since Storm Shadow came out for the 30th. Why so few? Every other wave of every other line had tons of them. I thought it was too expensive to produce...then I saw Red Ninja and black ninja...and theres your answer! Hasbro knew it needed ninjas! and SS was short changed due to the upcoming movie figs. I have three Reds so far and plan on having 6 all together as well as 6 black ninja! (you know if Hasbro produces them) and they better...all the ninja crap over the years and never black ninjas probably due to Snake Eyes! Kids like Ninjas and they like them in black!

I have to agree with you on the stance that kids love ninjas. While I'm sure there are plenty of collectors who are disapointed in what appears to be over the top ninja aspects of the new movie. I think if hasbro gets it right, it has the potential to bring in a lot more business from a younger core audience...I don't need all these ninja figures, but I loved ninjas as a child.

[ShadowNinja]

Yes. Collectors buy everything off the pegs and leave nothing for kids to buy. They then move to what they do see. I know u all will disagree.

[crock master]

i wouldnt worry about pushing renegades onto children. the cartoon was too lame for kids anyways, so i dont see why they would be interested in any of the characters

[AlleyViperEXE]

Yes. Collectors buy everything off the pegs and leave nothing for kids to buy. They then move to what they do see. I know u all will disagree.

It doesn't help when current-day GI Joe cases have like, 8-12 figures, when 15-20 years ago they had 5 or 6 times that....

[Mech-Viper]

So I got to thinking. What are the odds of this kid with one parent ever finding any of the "coolest figures" on the shelves to really spark his intrest. I know for a fact that the chance of any child beating me to a store on the right day and time to get the cool figures is slim to none. So my question is simple. Are we in our love for gi. Joe adding to the prevention of the next generation from gitting involved with the best toy line of all time?

I'm not asking about hasbros marketing or distribution, I think we can all agree that plays a part.
but i need to troop build that red ninja to stand on my shelf to collect or hang next to the wall next to the other 11 so i can have 12 total, or so i can trade it for that variant cobra commander.
As i told my step-son you better get it now because it might not be later mainly because of collectors. i rather see a child get a figure he wants , then a collector.

[ilzuccone]

Yes. Collectors buy everything off the pegs and leave nothing for kids to buy. They then move to what they do see. I know u all will disagree.

The op and shadow ninja have it right in terms of the continuation of the brand. Also there needs to be a cartoon or a movie to get them into it. without that there is no point leaving them on the shelf at target because they wont care.

as for "our" demise. If "our" is referring to collectors... well I think we are the only ones buying this stuff now.

[lardman]

That's an interesting idea, but unfortunatly three letters disprove you're theory: COD. Kids and parents seem to have zero problem with realistic depictions of military forces, hell Ive sold more than my fair share of copies of Modern Warfare and Battlefield to parents for their 10 and under children, and none of them even bat an eye when Ive explained the content of the game. Video games are playing a huge part in the death of toys. When we were younger action figures were our only real option, but now kids have an Xbox or Playstation before they learn their times tables. How can you expect little plastic men to compete with full on virtual interaction with realistic weapons and war zones? And you know we would have ignored Joes and everything else if we had the same option at that age.

The thing is though its not completely hopeless. Skylanders is selling an insane amount of plastic to children, so the interest seems to still be there. Maybe a cross between GI Joe and Call of Duty where you have to buy the figures to unlock the character in the game is what we need, but besides that nothing short of a global EMP is going to tear kids away from video games long enough to use the imagination it takes to really enjoy toys again.

+1 on the kids' playing computer games rather than using their imagination, the only issue with the tie-in suggestion is that even if kids are playing COD, etc., they aren't supposed to be and therefore it won't do Hasbro any favours from a PR point of view doing a direct tie-in with a 15+ (18+ in the UK) game unless the figures are aimed at collectors, which then defeats the point.

[speedlgt]

I say yes and no, Mark Bellemo said that if you can leave a cool fig on the pegs for a kid DO IT!
I think that collecting has a created a compitetive midset among collectors.
"i have to buy it now cause it wont be hear later"
"I have to beat the other collectors to the product to avoid paying more later"
"I have to buy everything on clearence and own multiples cause someone else will get it"
we are all aginst eachother for the most part in war of greed to gain the most figs.
the NO aspect is that we are helping the line by buying product and thats never a bad thing.

I would say its hasbro thats more to blame as they should have plenty of the figures that collectors and kids want on shelves.
we all should be able to walk in to a store and by that storm shadow at any given time. Hasbro has nothing to gain from rare figures! we do as greedy collectors but hasbro does not. they have more to gain from figs on shelves that everyone buys.

why do you think that spiderman is so strong? we all hate the spiderman line because they dont have those rare figs that we want to hunt for. but kids love it! any day on the week a kid can save up his little money walk all big eyed into ANY store and get a really cool spiderman fig! and that is the beauty of a kid buying a toy. the very same reason we all got in to this shit storm to start with.

[geekacres]

Pretty much, in order for toys to survive, they are going to have to integrate with social media trends and microgaming. Screw a cartoon, make webisodes, interactive "virtual" comic books, social media promotion. Make gi joe something they can play with in the yards with toys, with their friends on smart phones, on their pc after school,etc. it needs to be persistently integrated into kids lives in order to thrive.

This resonates with me somewhat. While my ten year old has some Joes, and some Star Wars, and some Marvel(mostly Iron Man) figs. What he is chasing right now is Skylanders. Recent birthday money went towards the Skylanders craze. It would be interesting to see a Joe game that had a way of boosting the in-game team via action figures with chips in them(ala Skylanders).

All of this said, the kiddo seemed interested in the movie Hiss, so I'm picking one up as an end of the school year 'atta boy' for his good grades.

[emags]

So I got to thinking. What are the odds of this kid with one parent ever finding any of the "coolest figures" on the shelves to really spark his intrest. I know for a fact that the chance of any child beating me to a store on the right day and time to get the cool figures is slim to none. So my question is simple. Are we in our love for gi. Joe adding to the prevention of the next generation from gitting involved with the best toy line of all time?

I'm not asking about hasbros marketing or distribution, I think we can all agree that plays a part.

Just to clarify, are you literally asking about retail stores? I find it much easierand more efficient to simply buy stuff on-line, which is what I do. I'm fairly sure children are more tech saavy than all of us and probably don't care if something is purchased on-line or in - person. But, is that your question?

[emags]

If the point is not to buy as much stuff at retail and hope a child buys it, so that one day that child may become a collector, like we are, than I think that is a flawed argument.

[youdoitimbusy]

It is simply a philisophical question. Like which came first, the chicken or the egg? There is no right or wrong answer just asking my fellow tankers opinions. This is not an argument to change anyones shoping habits.

[ShadowNinja]

I think there should be a "collector rule" of leave one buy one meaning if there are two red ninjas on the shelf just buy one. I bet some kid would see that red ninja and be like oh snap that's cool. He may even buy it as a enemy to his power ranger or something else. Even then though the kid still bought it.

[Hellion42]

That was the issue the with Hall of Heroes: Collectors voted based on what was hot AT THE TIME, but by the time the assortment was released ONE YEAR later, most had moved on to other toys, or no longer wanted the characters THEY VOTED FOR.

If I recall correctly, when voting was going on, Hasbro tasked us with voting for the best figures, or our favorites. Nowhere did it say, "vote for the figure you would want to buy again if we made it better." So people voted for their favorites... which is how we got two Snake Eyes', another Storm Shadow, etc. The HoH figures for the most part weren't different enough for many collectors to bother with, since, by the rules Hasbro laid down, most everyone voted for stuff that was good already. So the figures sat. A lot of folks, myself included, would have voted differently with the benefit of that bit of hindsight. "Which figures would you like us to go back and re-do?" would have produced much different results.

Back on-topic, I think it's a combination of all of the above. There's no successful media, so toys don't sell through, so they make less, what's left is picked over by collectors, so the pegwarmers sit, so the stores don't order more... and little Billy is playing with some toy that DOES have successful media, or the media itself (video games etc). All of it plays a part, but if the media isn't there nothing will change in the long run. The problem is that the hurdle is larger than JUST having the media (and toys to support it WHILE IT IS RUNNING, which Hasbro seems to love dropping the ball on), but the media pretty much has to be there.

[AlleyViperEXE]

I think there should be a "collector rule" of leave one buy one meaning if there are two red ninjas on the shelf just buy one. I bet some kid would see that red ninja and be like oh snap that's cool. He may even buy it as a enemy to his power ranger or something else. Even then though the kid still bought it.

Sad thing is, there's probably not going to be many people that actually abide by this rule. I mean, if you leave cool figures like that behind, the next collector will probably pick it up before the kid gets a chance anyway.

Or other....unsavory...folk.

[atomatron]

i do everyday, drinking way too much vodka... help

[sharky]

i do everyday, drinking way too much vodka... help
Don't worry. The Tanks got your back. We're here to help. Just tell us where to send you more vodka.

[atomatron]

Don't worry. The Tanks got your back. We're here to help. Just tell us where to send you more vodka.

pm sent

[Ford]

Ah, somebody mentioned Call of Duty. Maybe thats the ticket. Hasbro should strike up a deal with Activision and make 3 3/4" figures based on that series of games. It would go over great with the POC lovers, as it would have realistic military looks and gear. It could either be it's own line, or a subset sold as "G.I. Joe: Call of Duty".

[emags]

I think there should be a "collector rule" of leave one buy one meaning if there are two red ninjas on the shelf just buy one. I bet some kid would see that red ninja and be like oh snap that's cool. He may even buy it as a enemy to his power ranger or something else. Even then though the kid still bought it.

My concern with this rule is that it is based on the assumption, that (1) the kid will want the figure, and (2) his parents will buy it for him. I'm not so sure kids are into action figures, like we were back in the day (I'm 38). So the risk, is that nobody purchases the figure and it depresses the line b/c somebody is trying to "do the right thing".

Not saying it is a bad goal, just saying beware of the unintended consequences....

[Headman]

We're the only thing keeping the line going at this point. If kids were going ape shit over them the stores would keep ordering them. Truth is they're buying one case at a time and the first guy there buys the case and they don't bother restock for a month. If anything it's the stores lack of faith that they're going to sell that's causing the demise of GI Joe. That and the lack of ability to connect with a younger audience in general. It's not our fault. It's Rise of Cobra's fault.

[sharky]

We're the only thing keeping the line going at this point. If kids were going ape shit over them the stores would keep ordering them. Truth is they're buying one case at a time and the first guy there buys the case and they don't bother restock for a month. If anything it's the stores lack of faith that they're going to sell that's causing the demise of GI Joe. That and the lack of ability to connect with a younger audience in general. It's not our fault. It's Rise of Cobra's fault.
That has always bothered me. The pegs sat empty for literally months after all the 30th sold out. If it was any other pruduct they'd have restocked very quickly.

I've been thinking. Why don't retailers treat toys more seasonally like clothing. After so many weeks virtually all retailers clearance their out of season clothing with lower and lower prices then selling what's left to discount retailers. They seem very precise about it. Just try finding any kind of winter clothing right at the end of the winter season. They do this with toys, but not with nearly the consistancy and punctuality. If they truly clearanced out older stuff it would make way for tbe fresh stuff people want to buy.

If they could understand that certain toys like action figures are not like board games and puzzles. They are time sensitive more similar to clothing. If they treated toys more seasonally they'd probably sell more product over the long term. Instead they allow they're pegs to either sit empty or with old merchandise nobody wants.

[spiderpumpkin]

deleted

[Nightrain]

If anything it's the stores lack of faith that they're going to sell that's causing the demise of GI Joe.

The lack of faith is caused by Hasbro refusing to support it. GI Joe seems to exist as kind of a after-thought. But yeah, it certainly isn't our fault.

[Steevy Maximus]

That has always bothered me. The pegs sat empty for literally months after all the 30th sold out. If it was any other pruduct they'd have restocked very quickly.
The catch there is that almost any other product is apt to sell better than most given action figure lines.
The segment is a shadow of what it was ten years ago, much less 20 or 30.

My Walmart store, about two years ago, basically combined Photo Lab, Electronics, and toys into a single "department", in the sense that one pool of personnel have to cover all 3 sections.
Here, toys no longer has a dedicated manager (inventory is done by the Photo Lab manager, who then goes back to her box), and I've only seen 1 or 2 people there with any sort of consistancy (usually later in the evening doing "zoning" work).

Not only that, but when I moved here six years ago, action figures got a full aisle (two sides) for product. When they remodded last week? A side and a quarter. That's almost a 50% reduction in shelf space for action figures in six years, and briefly last year, it got down to less than one side of an aisle. And I know my region isn't unique in that regard (especially regions without competition)

I've been thinking. Why don't retailers treat toys more seasonally like clothing. After so many weeks virtually all retailers clearance their out of season clothing with lower and lower prices then selling what's left to discount retailers. They seem very precise about it. Just try finding any kind of winter clothing right at the end of the winter season. They do this with toys, but not with nearly the consistancy and punctuality. If they truly clearanced out older stuff it would make way for tbe fresh stuff people want to buy.
In a sense, toys ARE seasonal: every 12-18 months, if a line is even still around, you see "rebranding". If a new hot film is coming out, the toys are there to go with it.
If a line doesn't sell or is being replaced is usually when you see clearance (after all, clearance is retailers putting THEIR money on the line), but no so much anymore.

But yeah, a lot of "how its supposed to be done" is getting really jacked by the big retailers actions in the past few years (see more on that below)

If they could understand that certain toys like action figures are not like board games and puzzles. They are time sensitive more similar to clothing. If they treated toys more seasonally they'd probably sell more product over the long term. Instead they allow they're pegs to either sit empty or with old merchandise nobody wants.

That's actually bothered me a LOT over the past couple years:
The word is that the reason waves came into prominance was because the big retailers (ie, Walmart and Target) wanted a higher turnover and more variety on figure pegs (and to an extent, I've seen this translate to higher sales on several lines over the years). So instead of shipping out cases of 48 figures all year (with one set selection), Hasbro now ships 4 or 5 waves with each case being only 12 figures with a cycling selection.

BUT, the past few years have shown Walmart and Target going against that system:
Instead of a larger number of smaller orders (which work with the wave system), Walmart in particular seems to only order at certain times:
The start of a movie line (usually spring/early summer), fall buildup/new product launch (late summer) and Christmas (early to mid fall).

So instead of working with the system they wanted instituted, retailers are actually going back to the "seasonal" system of large orders intended to last several months, which isn't how Hasbro markets its figures.
Hell, Walmart let frikin' Iron Man 2 figures basically sit with no replenish (Hasbro's refresh of the line was basically online only) for TWO DAMN YEARS. Their "How to Train Your Dragon" toys (film was from 2010) are still popping up at my store, again, two years later.

They are still selling Transformers: Dark of the Moon product from last year, in many cases, at full price, despite a new line launching after Christmas.

I think that just shows an ENORMOUS disconnect between the executives, and the actual functioning of retail. And sadly, retailers like Walmart and Target still account for most of Hasbro's sales

[ROC Solid Snake]

I don't think there are ANY kids into GI Joe, that weren't coerced by a dad, uncle, older brother etc.. With that being said, I would think that the kid would be OK, as that same relative would probably help get the kids favorites.

[ShadowNinja]

The kids are not buying these cause they have no clue why the rock is on the box and what is retaliation. Remember these were for the movie release not a normal release and after this wave there will be no more. It was a fluke that the movie was pushed back when it was and that the toys were already in stores. I think poc and all that jazz was more for us tbh. Some wrestling fans/rock fans maybe buying some of these but thats it. The only place these looked picked over of all the stores I went to tonight was tru and thats cause they didnt restock from when the news hit the movie was being pushed back. Target looked like the single carded figs were the same as before except for one store that did restock. I think we may see these for a bit at target cause mine had the pegs full and they still had some in the back.

[whitefox360]

I appreciate the points made by tc, and believe thats why retaliation is about ninjas (that and gi joe needs an angle), but i'm not prepared to feel bad because i bought a toy before a kid could.

No matter how you look at this, it comes back to hasbro and their retail partners...what if the kid buys the cool figure? Now tommy cant get one to play with darren and mike. Same thing here.

If you want to make consistent figure sales, they first have to be made, shipped, stocked and then restocked. No more of this empty peg crap for months on end. Its always bothered me that gi joe is treated as the red headed stepchild when its never really got a fair chance to succeed on its own merits.

You cant sell 10 shirts when you stop selling after 5.

So much of whats popular with children today is only popular because its in front of them. Either in the toy isle or in cartoons, kids have to see it, and the know why its awesome before a sale takes place.

[Breakerfan]

Sorry. Nobody but us really cares about GI Joe. It's true. Think it is not? Why can you not find GI Joe in the stores? Because nobody but us cares. I hate to admit it but it is true. If Hasbro could really make money off of kids, that stuff would be everywhere. Do you really think hasbro is so stupid that they think if kids were ready to gobble up their toys they would make them unavailable?

[luigi]

Sorry. Nobody but us really cares about GI Joe. It's true. Think it is not? Why can you not find GI Joe in the stores? Because nobody but us cares. I hate to admit it but it is true. If Hasbro could really make money off of kids, that stuff would be everywhere. Do you really think hasbro is so stupid that they think if kids were ready to gobble up their toys they would make them unavailable?

somebody at hasbro does care
after all they made a discount line
granted
they aren't abundant yet but give it time

[Gatchaman]

I don't think it's Hasbro's fault. I think it is more of a societal issue. Society associates GI Joe with the military, and as much as we love our troops here in America, I don't think society wants to promote the military, concepts like war and the like, to it's children. If GI Joe could distance itself from its real world inspiration, and associate itself with a more fantastic struggle between good and evil, then I think it would do better.

I don’t think that will work. They have been trying to downplay the military aspect of GI Joe since the early 90's but parents still and probably always will associate GI Joe with the military. Ask any parent what they think of when they hear the words "GI Joe" and I would bet my next paycheck their answer would be the military every time.

Because of this I think Hasbro should embrace the military feel like they did in the original '82 to '87 years. Of course this is all just my opinion. :o)

[Headman]

I don’t think that will work. They have been trying to downplay the military aspect of GI Joe since the early 90's but parents still and probably always will associate GI Joe with the military. Ask any parent what they think of when they hear the words "GI Joe" and I would bet my next paycheck their answer would be the military every time.

Because of this I think Hasbro should embrace the military feel like they did in the original '82 to '87 years. Of course this is all just my opinion. :o)

I hope this isn't the case. Military video games are extremely popular, even with drum circle sissies. If Hasbro were smart they'd push the military angle. Hell, I'd push the pro American angle because I think there is going to be a backlash against the line of thinking that has dominated this country in recent years.

[Gatchaman]

I hope this isn't the case. Military video games are extremely popular, even with drum circle sissies. If Hasbro were smart they'd push the military angle. Hell, I'd push the pro American angle because I think there is going to be a backlash against the line of thinking that has dominated this country in recent years.

That's what I'm saying. They should embrace the military feel of GI Joe. Like you said there are lots of popular military games out there. Plus TRU always has a full isle dedicated to military toys like True Heroes and I see people buying that stuff a lot more then I see people buying GI Joe.

Anyways....this is a good thread. I like all the different ideas and opinions people have. I read the whole thing from beginning to end. Good stuff.

[unseenforces]

This is a really interesting observation. The obvious reaction is the discredit this thought and pin the blame on hasbro. As cliche as it is, i still feel it is correct.

When i was a child, i watched G.i. joe on television EVERY saturday morning. The movie and the mini-series were EVENTS. The toys were debuted in the Sears Wishbook, which was essentially everyone's default christmas list. When i went to the mall with my family, the pegs were RIFE with joe figures and vehicles.

Where is the joe cartoon now? if a kid isnt buying 'diamond', 'toy fare', 'wizard' or reading a forum like this one, where does he find out about the figures? When's the last time you were at a store and saw a joe figure selection that COULDNT be fit onto a single peg?

Things are different now. I think those of us who remember joe from our childhoods are the only ones who are going to really support the franchise. i think hasbro realizes that as well, with the push towards more mature depictions in resolute, and to a lesser extent, in renegades.

Probably the best shot they have at getting new fans is to target a teen audience with a syndicated resolute, but you know that wont happen. They might be aware of the shifting demographic, but they arent quite smart enough to capitalize on it.

that shit is so true man.. I remember staring up at all the colorful cards, like a whole fucking wall of gi joes and just sifting through them the best I could to pick out my absolute must have.

that shit is gone. I live by probably the biggest toys r us in the world now... there's like 5 gi joes there at all times and it's always 2 characters.

Such a good point man, I've forgotten those times of ARAH... shit is so true I have to curse like 20 times to emphasize on how true that shit is. TRUE.

[speedlgt]

the thing that makes JOE special is the military sc fi and COBRA I agree they should embrace the military side and the American side. they can just follow the same structure they did in the 80s of have the american heroes work with other nations heroes to keep it international

[Nightrain]

What about changing the brand's name?

GLOBE

Government Licensed Operations & Battle Enhancement

[Kipla]

This morning my nephew came over before school because his mom had something to do taday. Ill give you a little backround on his intrests toy wise. When he was younger he was huge on the cars toys, due to the movie. As he grew up, he moved onto transformers, due to the movie. I have tried to get him into gi joe. I have bought him some figures ext. Fast forward back to this morning. I brought him into my room to show him my collection, its been awhile sence he saw it last and I have picked up some pieces. He is 7 or 8, and last we spoke he had expressed intrest in "the ninjas". I asked him if there were any figures specifically that he liked, because I want to buy him some that he will play with. His jaw dropped when he saw the renegades storm shadow. My heart sunk a little bit, because I'm not dropping like 40 bucks for a single figure. I explained the rarity, he understood. I asked if there were any others he liked. The red ninja was next. So I'm going to try and find him one along with a few others.

So I got to thinking. What are the odds of this kid with one parent ever finding any of the "coolest figures" on the shelves to really spark his intrest. I know for a fact that the chance of any child beating me to a store on the right day and time to get the cool figures is slim to none. So my question is simple. Are we in our love for gi. Joe adding to the prevention of the next generation from gitting involved with the best toy line of all time?

I'm not asking about hasbros marketing or distribution, I think we can all agree that plays a part.

I think it is. I can remember as a kid that there was NEVER this problem of getting at least one of each figure; there was more than enough for everyone to get in on the fun - not just a few obsessive types who take it to the extreme or scalpers who instead of getting a job, try to make a living off of eBay.

At the end of the day, everyone has to remember what GI Joe is: It's a toy line. A. Toy. When something that was initially designed to be the plaything of a 10 year old to help develop his imagination is now sealed in a hermetically sealed box where it's been graded by professionals - all in hopes that in 20 years, it'll be worth thousands... it's to the detriment of the brand as the figure is not doing what it's supposed to be doing - providing fun.

That's why I applaud the new design philosophy behind some of the Retaliation line, as Hasbro realized that a kid doesn't give a hoot about how many points of articulation a figure has, or if the paint apps were neat, or if the sculpt was tight. It's a turn off for the adult collector, and I'm glad. The adults had their line, and that was POC and the 30th anniversary line, that's when Hasbro listened to the adult collector and really... was it worth it? Who here actually has a Pursuit of Cobra Lowlight figure? Or a Renegade Storm Shadow? Or have one that they don't have shopper's remorse over? Looking over at that hunk of plastic and thinking, "I just paid $70 for that little hunk of plastic...".

[Headman]

Yeah...I would be on board with an all-new Joe concept.


Oh hey, this reminds me of a thought I had last night. I hope I'm not derailing the thread but, in general, we're talking about the future of Joe here...

What about changing the brand's name?

The name is all this brand has.

[Sgt.D]

As sad as it is, these toys are made with the adult collector in mind. Kids have so many other distractions now (mmo's, texting, incredible video games etc) that not all that many of them collect action figures anymore.

[minstrelboy]

As sad as it is, these toys are made with the adult collector in mind. Kids have so many other distractions now (mmo's, texting, incredible video games etc) that not all that many of them collect action figures anymore.

I don't think that it's especially true that the figures are made for adult collectors; why else would they come with spring-loaded crap? It is true that kids are more interested in gadgets than toys nowadays. However, a LOT of Joe stuff put out or sanctioned by Hasbro are not attainable by younger collectors. Short-packed or chase figures, convention exclusives, online exclusives, etc. Inflated prices at internet outlets and on Ebay don't make it any easier. The fact is that it's not the '80's anymore, and it will never be as great as it was for Joe enthusiasts. My only hope is that 3D printing becomes more affordable and we can make our own damn toys. My one question is this - when Hasbro switches to 3D printing instead of old-school molding, will the price of figures come down and will they be more widely produced?

[Nightrain]

I don't think that it's especially true that the figures are made for adult collectors; why else would they come with spring-loaded crap?

They don't unless a film is involved.

[youdoitimbusy]

Anyways....this is a good thread. I like all the different ideas and opinions people have. I read the whole thing from beginning to end. Good stuff.

As this was my first attempt at creating a thread, I appreciate the support. I to have enjoyed everyones opinions and ideas.

[Snow Wolf]

POC and 30th were definitely aimed as much (or more) at adult collector's than the kids, and both were great product lines.

I'm not sure what happened with POC (in the US) which made it fairly rare to find after wave 3 (distribution mistake or retailers fault?), but EVERYTHING was available up in Canada with the exception of the 2 TRU exclusive figures and wave 6.

30th/Renegades stuff was more difficult to find up here though. We had plenty of Skystrikers and wave 1, but with the exception of a rare wave 3 find, I had to order the rest from BBTS or trade/buy from tankers. Obviously, this line was better distributed in the US than POC was.

I was fortunate enough to complete both POC and the 30th lines, and have absolutely NO buyer's remorse. I never pay scalper's prices for figures because I look for deals, either online (ebay, etc), or from tankers. I only paid $18 for Renegades SS, and $38 for Zarana, and besides these two exceptions, I have only paid retail (or less) for everything else. If a figure is too pricey (think SDCC exclusives like Sgt.Slaughter & Jinx), I just won't buy them.

I'm not sure where kids are today, toywise, but back when I was a kid, one of the reasons I liked GIJoe was because they were so "bendy" (articulable), with fairly realistic weapons, cool filecards, and because I thought the cartoon was drawn somewhat realistic (like Ghostbusters) in comparison to other kids shows like the Smurfs, etc.

I'm not sure how a few collectors hermitically sealing some of the figures away back in the 80's hurt the line or was detrimental to kids. I see it like a museum piece, and these are rare compared to how many the kids got to play with, hence their value. Back in the golden era of GIJoe, most stores had sizeable shelf and peg space devoted to the product, and it was readily available. (Note, I never sealed away anything from my childhood, but I wish I did).

There WERE a few classic ARAH figures that were hard to find back in 80's too though; 1985 SE w/Timber & 1984 SS both come to mind. Like most kids, I really wanted both, and was lucky enough to get a SS. I only saw SS & SE once each in the wild...just once! Even though Joes were practically everywhere, and over 90% were easy to find, there were always a few hard to find figures. HE-MAN, Transformers and Star Wars product lines were the same way, as I recall.

I think it is scalpers and poor marketing/distribution that hurts the toyline. Both are problematic for kids and adult collectors.

I detest scalpers (like most enthusiasts) who drive the prices up and hoard the figures & vehicles for after market profit. I feel this activity is expensive & annoying for adult collectors, and what is at least partially detrimental for kids. When some jerk consistantly buys up an entire small product supply or a rare figure, EVERYBODY loses, with the exception of the scalper and their profiteering.

Marketing, or lack thereof is also an issue. Think back to being a kid in the 80's; GIJoe was a dominant toyline that you could find at pretty much every major retailer as well as a lot of mom & pop stores. Why? Effective marketing, that's why. GIJoe had the cartoon, the cartoon movie, video games, and a whole bunch of toy commercials that aired on TV after school and on weekends; while kids were more likely to be watching TV. When is the last time you saw toy commercials on TV? Even kids shows and cartoons have changed from the 80's. Where are the PSA's and morals our cartoons tried to instill nowadays? Nowhere to be found.

It seems like kids have become more tech-saavy, where many are as (if not more) interested in video games, ipods/ipads, etc than classic toys. Transformers and Star Wars do better than GIJoe currently beacuse they are both backed by stronger marketing campaigns, which include movies, and cartoons. This equivalates to more retail orders, and more shelf space. It also ensures the brand is more front and centre in society's collective conscience, and therefore on a parent's radar. With Renegades, Hasbro dropped the ball, and didn't put out the toyline until the cartoon was pretty much off the air....whoops! The recent ROC movie helped bring GIJoe back into the collective conscience. This was apparent by the shelf space and distribution the toyline received. Again, POC and 30th were primarily aimed at adult collectors and therefore captured a smaller market. The success (or failure) of the Retaliation toyline will depend heavily on the movie, and subsequent marketing. The fact that the movie was postponed may hurt the toyline short-term, but the possible long-term effect remains to be seen. In essence, time will tell.





I think it is. I can remember as a kid that there was NEVER this problem of getting at least one of each figure; there was more than enough for everyone to get in on the fun - not just a few obsessive types who take it to the extreme or scalpers who instead of getting a job, try to make a living off of eBay.

At the end of the day, everyone has to remember what GI Joe is: It's a toy line. A. Toy. When something that was initially designed to be the plaything of a 10 year old to help develop his imagination is now sealed in a hermetically sealed box where it's been graded by professionals - all in hopes that in 20 years, it'll be worth thousands... it's to the detriment of the brand as the figure is not doing what it's supposed to be doing - providing fun.

That's why I applaud the new design philosophy behind some of the Retaliation line, as Hasbro realized that a kid doesn't give a hoot about how many points of articulation a figure has, or if the paint apps were neat, or if the sculpt was tight. It's a turn off for the adult collector, and I'm glad. The adults had their line, and that was POC and the 30th anniversary line, that's when Hasbro listened to the adult collector and really... was it worth it? Who here actually has a Pursuit of Cobra Lowlight figure? Or a Renegade Storm Shadow? Or have one that they don't have shopper's remorse over? Looking over at that hunk of plastic and thinking, "I just paid $70 for that little hunk of plastic...".