The Truth of the Matter about the Push Back of Retaliation

[mynameisash]

A lot of people are P'd off. True. Yet, look at it this way.

If George Lucas said a month before the release of Star Wars Episode I that it had to be postponed for some odd reason (ala 3D conversion) then people would be angry. Back in 1999, we all saw the movie trailers and thought "Hell yeh!!". We were all looking forward to seeing Episode I because the movie trailers rocked!!! It was a Star Wars movie and we all were looking forward to a new Star Wars movie after almost 20 years.

Now, we Joe fans, who have been wanting an upstanding Joe film that would knock our socks off are angry. We have 3 rocking movie trailers, a great cast (The Rock, Bruce Willis, etc), accurate Cobra costumes, and a director who understands the fans.

BUT!!!!!!! The movie did not deliver to the test audience. (Worse than ROC, Nonsensical)

Since flops like John Carter and Battleship, I'm sure that the movie studios are walking on egg shells to ensure and deliver a sell-able product. One of the sit in audience members said that he is still buying a ticket to see the finished product even though he loathed the test screening. He defended Paramount and Hasbro adding that they are taking the time now to make a BETTER movie. The way to hide behind addressing that they have made a BAD movie is by using the "3D" excuse. This makes them sound so Stupid! But, it sounds better to make them sound stupid for using a false excuse rather than coming out and telling everyone that their product has defects.

In 9 months time, and after I get married, I will be anticipating a much better movie! If they add more Tatum, Bring it on! If they can save this movie, I'm all for it! As long as they don't pull a Superman 2 where Donner's first film was better than the final product, I'm all for it. This could be a great way to do movies in the future. Instead of rushing a movie through production, Make sure that the movie is fit for sale. I wished they had done this for X-Men 3. Instead of killing off Cyclops, put him in a coma.

I think this postponement will be justified by next March. Good luck to Paramount, Hasbro, and John Chu!

[Crimson Rage]

People think, in my support of RoC, I'm not looking forward to Retaliation. Not true, at all! I'll be really glad to have two Joe movies I can enjoy... I actually believe the nine month hiatus might help this film though. For all the talk of 'accurate' costumes, the trailer did give the impression that Retaliation had a quite mundane plot that relied an awful lot on movie cliché (heroes discredited & going rogue being the biggest) and that once the dust had settled on the opening act it would become a case of the characters on the run & undercover and feel even less like GI Joe that (to other people, not me) RoC did...

Great trailers mean nothing these days. Tranformers DOTM's trailer gave the impression it was a serious epic, but I for one found the film anything but. So yes I agree, a defininate 'good luck' to all involved. Have a good think and give us something special in March rather than the fan-service "best of" compilation that seems to have emerged.

[Griff]

This whole thing kinda reminds me of the Gundam G-Savior Debacle.....If memory serves they too wanted to take a long standing animated series and turn it into a live action franchise.....and it bombed abysmally. Now what did Gundam do...curl up into a ball and rollaway...no...it went back to its roots as an animated series that held its own with good stories, good character development (not always but hey nothin's perf right?) amazing robots and some pretty slick animation (i forgive Turn A for exsisting).

GI JOE is just not going to produce a successful live action franchise and thats what this giant debacle says to me. It says GI JOE should go back to being the daily cartoon it was with a semi-corebase characters that introduces us to new characters per ep/story arc and has fun individual episodes and then 2-5 part story arcs with good non bruce timm/clement suave style animation and individual voice overs not 3 people doing 15 characters. if Hasbro could loosen its wallet a bit and put the cartoon back on networks (could hopefully start a trend of cartoons coming back to weekday afternoons and saturday mornings) then maybe...MAYBE gi joe has a chance of being a viable entity again. Until then this is the dreck we as fans of whichever franchise is up for live actioning....will have to endure.

[thairestauranteur]

I have never seen such a botched movie/toy tie-in go bad as with Retaliation. I think this may be the first time in history a 'summer blockbuster' is pushed back till the following march.

You can tell the retailers hesitation about purchasing too much product because it could sit on the shelves for months and months like RoC product.

It is starting to look like this movie is going to be bad as RoC. Not perhaps in terms of story or special effects. But perhaps in just marketability.

RoC was not marketed well. Partly because the movie was half-baked but also because the retailers ordered so much of wave 1 that they couldn't sell the figures due to lack of interest so the succeeding waves saw very little sales relative to wave 1.

Retaliation seems they may suffer similar issues due to retailers hesitation about how sloppily this movie is being marketed due to the delay and whatever suspected problems this film is perceived of having. Retailers will obviously be hesitant.

As I said before, never in my life have I seen a movie/toy tie-in promotion such as Retaliation be as botched as Retaliation.

The decision to do this hack job rests with Brian Goldner. Goldner's total mismanagement is to blame for this mess.

I will say it again, this will not be satisfactory without Brian Goldner tendering his resignation as Hasbro CEO. Goldner's resignation is absolutely mandatory to help reassure the retailers who are asked by Hasbro to carry their Retaliation product line and the Hollywood studios making movies of 'Hasbro's iconic brands' that Hasbro is making serious strides in cleaning their house as to help prop up confidence in Hasbro once again.

With Goldner in charge, there will be serious doubt from now on. Get rid of Goldner and confidence will be restored.

[Galaxus]

This whole thing kinda reminds me of the Gundam G-Savior Debacle.....If memory serves they too wanted to take a long standing animated series and turn it into a live action franchise.....and it bombed abysmally. Now what did Gundam do...curl up into a ball and rollaway...no...it went back to its roots as an animated series that held its own with good stories, good character development (not always but hey nothin's perf right?) amazing robots and some pretty slick animation (i forgive Turn A for exsisting).

GI JOE is just not going to produce a successful live action franchise and thats what this giant debacle says to me. It says GI JOE should go back to being the daily cartoon it was with a semi-corebase characters that introduces us to new characters per ep/story arc and has fun individual episodes and then 2-5 part story arcs with good non bruce timm/clement suave style animation and individual voice overs not 3 people doing 15 characters. if Hasbro could loosen its wallet a bit and put the cartoon back on networks (could hopefully start a trend of cartoons coming back to weekday afternoons and saturday mornings) then maybe...MAYBE gi joe has a chance of being a viable entity again. Until then this is the dreck we as fans of whichever franchise is up for live actioning....will have to endure.Gotta agree here on the whole toon issue, I feel transformers as well as GIJOE do better as cartoons and should have stayed that way, call me crazy but even comicbook movies(though some are cool in their own way)do not translate to film all that well because they were never intended to be movies in the first place.

[Renegade]

Agreed in that the movie might not be what long time GI Joe fans want, or casual "movie goers" expect. They might be two different things altogether.


However, I am not saying the two are not compatible. Or that they're not able to make the product even surpass what is expected. It would take a really competent, knowledgeable writer, and a team that believes in him to do it. The Avengers is a prime example of that. The comic book of Avengers has decades of continuity, character development within the title, and OTHER comic book characters with their own subtleties that tie into it; a much more daunting task to satisfy everyone with. Still they did it.


GI Joe is not a premise that is impossible to translate in movie form. It is, however, not as easy as putting in big names, special effects and Snake Eyes in it to make it great. The characters have to be treated with respect, and plausible within its own mythos. That's what made it great to begin with.

[GeneralEagle]

ok, i finally feel like putting in my .02 on this.

The script is or was too clich'e, (i.e. Joes on the run etc.) so they needed to go back and try and make it a more fluid and believable story.

They either need or want to cash in on Tayum's increased popularity so he might be getting more screen time, ( as a Duke fan i like this)

the test audiences felt the film didn't work so Paramount is trying to fix it.

and for those eho say Joe can't work as a live action franchise are crazy...this property was built to be a live-action franchise...but i feel it would work slightly better as a tv series.

each season a diffrent team of Joes, with a few carryovers from the previous season and a few specific specialists. could really work

thats what i think

[Shin Densetsu]

Hasbro and Paramount both state that the delay is due to 3d conversion, some say it's because the screener reviews were bad, who the hell knows. This delay of the movie and subsequent delay of the toys is bad for the brand.

Hasbro is going to have to blow retailers' socks off next Toy Fair if they want them to carry GI Joe Retaliation toys.

[thealleyviper]

This may be against popular opinion, but I would have rather Paramount say:

"This film is not the product we expected. During the filming process, everything seemed to come together well. However, after seeing the final product and screening it before a test audience, we have decided to postpone the film to provide a more attractive product for all moviegoers."

What's wrong with that? I think it's better than saying "we want to offer it in 3D", only to have everyone speculating on underlying reasons for the delay. IMO, Hollywood is not utilizing test audiences for what they should be intended for- reviewing a movie to find flaws and room for improvement. Instead they seem to use it so they can put together a more attractive commercial or prepare themselves for the stinkbomb to come.

Am I disappointed that Retaliation was delayed? Yes, but I am glad if it helps them to put out a better movie for GI Joe fans and the general audience to enjoy.

[haradrel]

This may be against popular opinion, but I would have rather Paramount say:

"This film is not the product we expected. During the filming process, everything seemed to come together well. However, after seeing the final product and screening it before a test audience, we have decided to postpone the film to provide a more attractive product for all moviegoers."

What's wrong with that? I think it's better than saying "we want to offer it in 3D", only to have everyone speculating on underlying reasons for the delay.

You all do realize that they may just want to offer it in 3D right? and the scenes that are being re-shot is just to enhance the 3D...
I swear it's a conspiracy every time something is not 100% what everybody thought it would be...

[figureware]

I can think of one summer movie pushed back! It's kinda funny to think of it now but in the summer Speed2 came out the studio or studios that produces Titanic thought that it's ballooned budget and similarly themed (water) story line would not hold up against the already popular Speed franchise. Speed 2 flops big time and Titanic is released at Christmas it goes on to be the biggest movie of all time. No action figures though :/

[carion]

Paramount and Hasbro both stated that the movie is being delayed for a 3D conversion and that March is a better date due to the lack of competition. The rumor about the bad test screening is from a single source, person X, which refuses to be identified.
Maybe Paramount and Hasbro are both telling the truth and the mysterious person X is really Stephen Sommers.
Either way, I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and wait until I see the movie before I judge the movie, just like I did with ROC.

[minstrelboy]

I dunno. After the dreadfully terrible films that continue to make it to theaters and still make a profit, this had to be epically awful for the studio to reel it in and invest more time and money to make it watchable for an audience. I mean, let's be honest - as far as the consumers are concerned, corporations look at us as only in terms of how much money can be extracted from our pockets. If we'd pay to see shit, then they'd put out shit.

[80sKid]

I have seen this opinion only a few times through the 100s of posts about this debacle but my concern is that the movie was actually what us true fans of GI Joe wanted but the stupid sheep that is the general American populace didn't like it cause it wasn't lame enough! Let's be real the average American has absolutely horrible taste when it comes to anything, movies, food, etc... So the best possible outcome, if this is true, is that they remake this movie to appeal to the masses, it will be a financial success but will suck, much like ROC, and then they will release a DVD/blu ray of the directors cut original version.

[CG82]

I think it is arrogant to say ROC wasnt based on GI JOE, when it was and writers obviously were watching the cartoon and read some of the comics. What they screwed up with was with Ripcord, Baroness and Cobra Commander. They seemed to have merged Cobra Commander into his vietnam vet brother , Dr Venom and Mindbender. Star Wars was also involved, but then again, elements of Star Wars have been in GI JOE for a long time for one reason or another, with dubious results.

How do we know "its what the fans wanted", they wiped out the main joes and to blame the fans I dont know. The fans are likely the ones that went to go see ROC anyway. ROC also had lots of Duke and SE and SS action it just was a shitty . Since when is Cobra a special mission force and GI JOE are like national heroes on TV in retaliation.

With ROC it wasnt like they there was no effort to be GI JOE(cartoons/comics), its just that they failed. The lack of publicity over screenings is a bad thing, same with lack of script reviews.

[Raysohood]

Slash Film podcast and one of them saw the film and they said the samething. That it was just terrible but than again He said the liked the first one so i dont know how you would take that lol.

[CobraSnakeEyes]

I think it is arrogant to say ROC wasnt based on GI JOE, when it was and writers obviously were watching the cartoon and read some of the comics. What they screwed up with was with Ripcord, Baroness and Cobra Commander. They seemed to have merged Cobra Commander into his vietnam vet brother , Dr Venom and Mindbender. Star Wars was also involved, but then again, elements of Star Wars have been in GI JOE for a long time for one reason or another, with dubious results.

How do we know "its what the fans wanted", they wiped out the main joes and to blame the fans I dont know. The fans are likely the ones that went to go see ROC anyway. ROC also had lots of Duke and SE and SS action it just was a shitty . Since when is Cobra a special mission force and GI JOE are like national heroes on TV in retaliation.

With ROC it wasnt like they there was no effort to be GI JOE(cartoons/comics), its just that they failed. The lack of publicity over screenings is a bad thing, same with lack of script reviews.

Lets name the list of screw up's in ROC

1) Baroness/Duke
2) Duke/Baroness/CC and Ripcord all being friends before hand
3) Iron man suits
4) Snake Eyes lips, CC helmet
5) Ripcord/Scarlett relationship
6) Destro being a skrony irish men
7) The "death" of SS cause SE would never really kill him
8) The orgins all fucked up
9) The pit, Alpha dogs
10) Duke being a ghetto recruit when he shouldve been the leader from the start an recruiting other joes
11) Snake Eyes vow of silence
12) Stephen Sommers

[ChaplainAsst]

To be fair, RoC was a much better movie than Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen, which came out the same summer. If you look at money made, you might disagree with that. RoC had many flaws - some in terms of movie making, some in script, some in actors - but it was also a challenge to make it due to the writer's strike at that time.

With Retaliation, you don't have the excuse of a strike, about expectations, about creating a new universe, etc. It is always harder to come up with something from nothing.

Some people think it should be easy to create an action movie: just make it special forces based. The problem is that this is not what Hasbro wants: they want the sci-fi/futuristic element as they make toys, probably so they don't have to pay royalties to aviation companies but also to create new properties. Paramount wants big explosions, so a sneaky unit doesn't work. And Cobra as a terrorist group doesn't work in our modern culture - besides they were always more like a clandestine army.

So, this is a challenge to create something that people will like that is original and not a comic book brought to life. (That has been tried, and it doesn't work.) But don't completely write off RoC - it did somethings right. It just wasn't what people wanted, expected or went out of their way to see.

[CobraSnakeEyes]

I liked all Transformers movies 2 was weak but G.I Joe was by far worse. See my previous points, They surely couldve watched the cartoon and resolute they had no excuse to change all the backgrounds of the characters and make some silly action movie. Give me ARAH or Resolute simple reference the strike is no excuse they couldve watched either cartoon or read a better comic of G.I Joe then the one we got

[CrimsonGuard101]

The truth? You can't handle the truth!

But to quote Fox Mulder "The Truthis out there"

And so are the toys :)

now go buy em! So retail will know there are still people that will buy Joe movie toys (albeit maybe not other movie line toys cause they are pretty bad...especially those Batman figures omg this year is like retro 1985 with captain bravestar wannabe toys or some crap) lol....

[darthmaul1]

Lets name the list of screw up's in ROC

1) Baroness/Duke
2) Duke/Baroness/CC and Ripcord all being friends before hand
3) Iron man suits
4) Snake Eyes lips, CC helmet
5) Ripcord/Scarlett relationship
6) Destro being a skrony irish men
7) The "death" of SS cause SE would never really kill him
8) The orgins all fucked up
9) The pit, Alpha dogs
10) Duke being a ghetto recruit when he shouldve been the leader from the start an recruiting other joes
11) Snake Eyes vow of silence
12) Stephen Sommers

They have to make the movie for more than just the fans and the nut bar fans too. I really enjoyed ROC
FYI the "iron man" suits have been around before iron man. They were in the old book of starship troopers years ago. It's not as if they ripped off iron man.
Also in ROC destro was suppose to be Scottish not irish!

I liked all Transformers movies 2 was weak but G.I Joe was by far worse. See my previous points, They surely couldve watched the cartoon and resolute they had no excuse to change all the backgrounds of the characters and make some silly action movie. Give me ARAH or Resolute simple reference the strike is no excuse they couldve watched either cartoon or read a better comic of G.I Joe then the one we got

I disagree transformers 2 & 3 were way way worse than ROC nothing flowed right. I was bored and overwhelmed with robots we didn't know plot holes and explosions.

[CG82]

Lets name the list of screw up's in ROC

1) Baroness/Duke
2) Duke/Baroness/CC and Ripcord all being friends before hand
3) Iron man suits
4) Snake Eyes lips, CC helmet
5) Ripcord/Scarlett relationship
6) Destro being a skrony irish men
7) The "death" of SS cause SE would never really kill him
8) The orgins all fucked up
9) The pit, Alpha dogs
10) Duke being a ghetto recruit when he shouldve been the leader from the start an recruiting other joes
11) Snake Eyes vow of silence
12) Stephen Sommers

I dont disagree obviously, and I brefly summarized pretty much the same things. I will be fair and say Snake Eyes' costume even the lips were heavily modeled on this figure(and the Devils Due version):

http://www.yojoe.com/action/85/allgearedup/snakeeyes2.jpg

Snake Eyes (v2) , YOJOE.COM | YoJoe.com: Dedicated to the G.I.Joe of the 80's, 90's and beyond! (http://www.yojoe.com/action/85/snakeeyes2.shtml)



..they just took the design too literately.


The first few GI JOE scripts to Rise of Cobra were by all sources horrible and originally they wanted GI JOE to be an action comedy and a parody to itself, and then it wanst gonna be GI JOE but Action Man and that Cobra and Cobra Commander weren't gonna be in it at all and there was a tremendous backlash by the Joe community and really who knows what movie they originally started filming and what the producers wanted( I think the Hasbro execs & producers were on drugs and may still be).


I do suspect there was many scripts and ghost writers involved and that adding things in and out and that Cobra Commander was an after thought and maybe post production it "hey lets make Rex Cobra Commander". The whole subplot with Rex, Duke and Baroness was heavily contrived. The disjointed storyline likely could have originated by the various screen writers and/or the quality of the writers. I was looking at the concept art to ROC and it looked good, just wtf happened I guess is anybodies guess.

[UNDERCOVER]

I'm starting to think that it just sucked and they are trying to fix it. I had high hopes for this movie, but not anymore. Nothing could be as bad as ROC or could it ???????????????????

[CrimsonGuard101]

I'm starting to think that it just sucked and they are trying to fix it. I had high hopes for this movie, but not anymore. Nothing could be as bad as ROC or could it ???????????????????

If Steven Sommers has his way as exectuive producer on Retaliation...yes..oh yes it can...thats who i am blamming for ruining it, his name is still in the credits on the retaliation trailers...so it his fault...

[UNDERCOVER]

Just too much ninja everything I think. I love SE & SS as much as the next guy, but damn its just too much.

[CrimsonGuard101]

Just too much ninja everything I think. I love SE & SS as much as the next guy, but damn its just too much.

Yes, when roadblock is being primed to take Snake Eyes place as the "ultimate ninja commando"...I cry a little panda inside :(

[UNDERCOVER]

How can Destro not be in it???????????, he was the bright spot of ROC.

[CrimsonGuard101]

How can Destro not be in it???????????, he was the bright spot of ROC.

His mask man.. you see how they tried to do that at the end of ROC..can you stand a CGI headed Ekleson walking aournd? It would have been horrid...they should have waited to give him his mask when they concluded the 3 part mini series or something...I think he was fine as the behind the scenes arms dealer working the profits between Joes and Cobra...he needed better directing, better lines and he owuld have been better...then they tried to make him bigger then CC and then it all fell apart at the end...

[CobraSnakeEyes]

I dont disagree obviously, and I brefly summarized pretty much the same things. I will be fair and say Snake Eyes' costume even the lips were heavily modeled on this figure(and the Devils Due version):

http://www.yojoe.com/action/85/allgearedup/snakeeyes2.jpg

Snake Eyes (v2) , YOJOE.COM | YoJoe.com: Dedicated to the G.I.Joe of the 80's, 90's and beyond! (http://www.yojoe.com/action/85/snakeeyes2.shtml)



..they just took the design too literately.


The first few GI JOE scripts to Rise of Cobra were by all sources horrible and originally they wanted GI JOE to be an action comedy and a parody to itself, and then it wanst gonna be GI JOE but Action Man and that Cobra and Cobra Commander weren't gonna be in it at all and there was a tremendous backlash by the Joe community and really who knows what movie they originally started filming and what the producers wanted( I think the Hasbro execs & producers were on drugs and may still be).


I do suspect there was many scripts and ghost writers involved and that adding things in and out and that Cobra Commander was an after thought and maybe post production it "hey lets make Rex Cobra Commander". The whole subplot with Rex, Duke and Baroness was heavily contrived. The disjointed storyline likely could have originated by the various screen writers and/or the quality of the writers. I was looking at the concept art to ROC and it looked good, just wtf happened I guess is anybodies guess.

Noted! They still strayed away from the origin of Joe pisses me off!

[CobraSnakeEyes]

They have to make the movie for more than just the fans and the nut bar fans too. I really enjoyed ROC
FYI the "iron man" suits have been around before iron man. They were in the old book of starship troopers years ago. It's not as if they ripped off iron man.
Also in ROC destro was suppose to be Scottish not irish!



I disagree transformers 2 & 3 were way way worse than ROC nothing flowed right. I was bored and overwhelmed with robots we didn't know plot holes and explosions.

Two things regardless of the the suits still not needed and secondly I enjoyed TF 1&3, 2 was alright at best Megan Fox being the highlight and giving Optimus a mouth a freaking robot was like giving Snake Eyes lips WTF??

[fireflyguy]

I wonder what would happen if they made a GI Joe full length movie with character animation like Resolute with some of the PH-13 stuff, story line similar to Renegades and an animation style akin to that of Toy Story?

[CG82]

But seriously, wtf RZA as the "Blind Master"?!

[blackman2005]

But seriously, wtf RZA as the "Blind Master"?!

It's because Michael Jai White was busy filming another Tyler Perry movie....