So why did Renegades suck?

[Cerebral Dissolution]

This is addressed to those that really didnt like Renegades. Not trying to instigate a flame war, but I've read comments here and there from those that really disliked the cartoon, which I thought was brilliant, and was hoping to get some specific reasons as to why people didnt like it as much as I did.

BTW I always hated the original ARAH cartoon, and dropped out of GI Joe from around 91 till Sigma 6. I lived Sigma 6, and Resolute, but think GI Joe needed a serious reboot and the development of the characters was really appreciated. Renegades certainly wasn't perfect, but I really liked more than I disliked. . .

[fireflyguy]

I thought that Renegades was far better than any of the Sunbow stuff. But cartoons are different now than they were. And the ARAH stuff was iconic because it's all we had besides the comics, which is what dictated my Joeverse anyway. I lived Renefades. If there were anything I'd change about Renegades, it'd probably be Ripcord being a bio-viper, but it was kind of a neat arc and wasnt a series killer for me.

[Raw Dog]

I thought Renegades was great and have no problem with it. I wish Hasbro would produce more figures from the line. I would love a version of Shipwreck in a P-coat. Heck, I'd purchase Renegades versions of Destro, Bludd, Baroness, and all the rest. That said, I guess this thread isn't really targeted toward me, lol, because I don't think it sucked.

[sharky]

I simply thought the stories were kind of boring and not very compelling. It didn't hold my interest.

Edit: I wouldn't go so far as to say it sucked. It just wasn't my thing.

[DKV]

I hated the animation style, it reminded me of a low budget internet cartoon, the static stylistic backgrounds killed me, no detail put into it. Story was lame, I would have feel asleep if it was later in the evening wen i watched it.

[Lody]

Probably because it didn't

[Tracker]

well it came on a new station with not much advertizement support

[DKV]

well it came on a new station with not much advertizement support

I agree I only have basic cable and could not watch it.

[Raw Dog]

I like the episode where Joe was tooling around on ATVs and Cobra was chasing them in Trouble Bubbles. It was like the first episode with a lot of classic Joe on Cobra action IMO that I saw. Anyone know what episode I'm talking about cause I can't remember which one it was?

[VideoViper]

Some people (including myself) didn't like the animation style. Although it was very typical of what the animation studios are doing now.

I got over it pretty quickly because I liked the stories (some better than others; like any show.)

But as others have said if they let something like animation style ruin the show for them, then they missed out.

It is available on Netflix now, go enjoy it for what it is.

I liked how the storyline continued & if something happened in ep 5 It still mattered in ep 10. I also enjoyed hints of things to come in later seasons.

I aggree the bio viper was weird but the storyline showed an ever evolving bio-viper, which I believe would have become a super solder, & then one of the super soldiers would have become Serpentor.

[Raw Dog]

Yeah, and it is going to come out on DVD soon too, do we will all be able to own a piece of Joe history if we want to. And, if you missed it cause of basic cable, toucan catch it on DVD if you want, unless you don't own a DVD player too, lol! Sorry!?!

[DKV]

What other cartoon uses that animation style? It aint DC there animation is bad ass!

[DKV]

Yeah, and it is going to come out on DVD soon too, do we will all be able to own a piece of Joe history if we want to. And, if you missed it cause of basic cable, toucan catch it on DVD if you want, unless you don't own a DVD player too, lol! Sorry!?!

I watched it on Netflix, but the main reason it failed and is on netflix is because no one watched it on TV, except of course the however many member on the tank that have the HUB network..

[Raw Dog]

Yeah, that show Young Justice kicks ass! I saw the episode with Red Arrow last night and it was wicked pissah.

[Raw Dog]

@DKV

I'm not sure saying it failed is a fair assessment. I mean I heard it did quite well in the ratings and that they pulled it because of Retaliation. I also heard that it was so well received they've even considered bringing it back. Of course, this is just what I've heard. I have no real knowledge on the subject. What I've heard could in fact be full of it, lol!

[Galaxus]

I always felt it could have used more effort in the art direction it was trying to go, not that it was that bad IMO but sometimes it seemed the art looked idk...undone?

[DKV]

@DKV

I'm not sure saying it failed is a fair assessment. I mean I heard it did quite well in the ratings and that they pulled it because of Retaliation. I also heard that it was so well received they've even considered bringing it back. Of course, this is just what I've heard. I have no real knowledge on the subject. What I've heard could in fact be full of it, lol!

I am full of it all the time..but I hear ya, the retaliation thing I do not buy, that is like saying they would cancel clone wars if a new Starwars movie would come out, not going to happen that show it super huge.

[ChaplainAsst]

Two problems of note were animation and story.

The animation is a matter of taste. I got used to it, but it wasn't nearly as detailed as many of us are used to. It was much more stylized than the Avengers or TF Prime.

The story, for me, was the bigger problem as the shows were not shown in the order they were designed to be shown. Thus the progression of the Joes learning about Cobra was simply flawed. Even without that hindrance, the story developed VERY slowly. The first episode was not that great but it also promised upon the story of the Joes uncovering the mystery of Cobra. That wasn't really developed more fully into the second half of the season. The season finale was flawed in that it should have been twice as long and more dramatic. Too much was left unanswered - and I don't mean in a cliffhanger sense, but rather what was going on sense.

In the end, the Hub being a new channel without a lot of money behind it to push it on younger kids certainly hurt this. Not having a toy line on shelves during the show run or before likely didn't help. But this was just a little too sophisticated for kids in terms of story and animation for many to jump on before. The story was hard to follow for a kid - none of the simple Sunbow storylines in Renegades. And the look was dramatically different from kids have grown to expect.

[DKV]

Two problems of note were animation and story.

The animation is a matter of taste. I got used to it, but it wasn't nearly as detailed as many of us are used to. It was much more stylized than the Avengers or TF Prime.

If i wanted stylized art I would watch this..
Lilith Performance Studio, June 5, 2010 - Melati Suryodarmo - butterdance.mov - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnPNr9yquuc)

[allen dane]

xmen and batman the animated series proved that kids were more interested in good stories over easy jokes and puns or big drawing explosions. So new cartoons are expected to feel somewhat real. The jello vipers seam so unreal, and not even menacing. They should have just made them all B.A.T.S.s.... But I loved the show and wanted more of the characters to join the team.

[abesapien2]

I couldn't get into the characters. None of the main characters did anything that made me like them...

I can get over art style if it was written well...

The episodes seemed to be written around forcing old Joes/Cobras into it instead of writing a compelling ongoing flowing story. I felt they wasted characters for the sake of nostalgia. During the entire show, they were one piece of evidence behind revealing Cobra. No where closer than they were in the beginning. Boring... move it along please!

Storm Shadow was a putz and designed too emo.

My favorite update was Zartan... how they explained his "power" was fantastic. Better than a mask or crazy green skin in the sun.

Bio-Vipers = stupid

Airing it on the Hub as a reason why it failed isn't a good reason. Transformers Prime did fine and had no toys to support it during it's first season.

[sbartek1974]

I like the Renegades storyline and the way they brought forth the characters, but I really didn't care too much for the animation. I mean, alot of it looked as though I was watching Pokemon. What they should have done is stuck to the animation they used for the Marvel GI Joe comic book commericals and the commercials for the toys back in the 80's. That looked so much better IMO and I think it would have worked for Renegades.

[UncleHappy]

I actually disagree on the writing. I found it to be quite good, barring Ripcord's claptrap. The stories focusing on the characters and their histories were incredibly interesting. I also loved seeing classic characters get introduced gradually as the series went on. What has likely signed it's death warrant, in my honest opinion, is the fact that it was too different for some people to give a decent shot. That and the fact that The Hub spent all its time promoting Transformers Prime. Here's hoping that it gets a second chance after Retaliation hits and that we'll see some more figures of the reimagined characters designed by the late Clément Sauvé.

[Jay West]

I liked it quite a bit. I think in hindsight it would have been more successful as a series of about 2-3 mini series. The first would have basically condensed the whole season one into 5 episodes. The next one would have been Joe vs Cobra in a more traditional sense. And then the 3rd could have been an adaptation of any of a number of popular story lines from the comics or the original cartoon.


This would have essentially given us 3 movies that they could have then packaged in a box type set with behind the scenes stuff.

[Cerebral Dissolution]

I probably loved the development of Zartan and Snake Eyes the best. Not even does Snake Eyes speak, but we see his face. I loved Zartan as the biker leader, and the scene of them just chilling in the motel and then Road Pig tackling Snake Eyes was just perfect. I loved the stylized backgrounds, and while the animation was simplified, I was really drawn into the characters. I was very interested in all of them. Loved Mindbender too. I could nit-pic about the Bio-Vipers and the sissy Breaker, but when I compare it to ARAH with Yo Joe this and Yo Joe that oh man I cant even watch it today. Renegades I think I'll appreciate much longer than any other incarnation of GI Joe.

As far as the hub and timing of the toy line, frustrating for me too, but that doesnt take away from the creativity put into the series. And the end, we know was rushed and quickly wrapped up. I dont like it either, but blame circumstances more than anything else.

[Cerebral Dissolution]

I also recognize it was GI Joe + The A Team, but I really liked the A Team too so whatever. It worked. Better than every Joe climbing into a Sky Striker regardless of their specialty.

[wormser]

renegades was complete shit cause the story line. gi joe were not criminals, falsely accused or not. they were heroes as the name itself applies. they arent the god damn A-team. the story line was bullshit, the animation sucked, the whole dialogue when they gave each other their respective nick names made me have to take a dump, and jello monsters are stupid.

[CrimsonGuard101]

this whole thread can be summed up with 2 pictures

http://www.hisstank.com/forum/members/crimsonguard101-albums-tempus-picture40097-pokemon.jpg

http://www.hisstank.com/forum/members/crimsonguard101-albums-tempus-picture40094-boomhauer.jpg



The similarities are just GHASTLY...and this is why you fail Renegades...

[Cerebral Dissolution]

Okay what do you consider the best to be then? Resolute? Even that had its problems.

[sonoftimmy]

The biggest problem for me was the animation style. But, I didn’t love any of the storylines that I saw either and I dropped out after 5 episodes.

I don’t like the Clone Wars animation either. But, will watch it from time to time based on the story or characters that are on. I never did that with Renegades.

[homer_sapien]

The story, for me, was the bigger problem as the shows were not shown in the order they were designed to be shown.

Does anybody know if the DVD release has the episodes in the order they were aired or the order they should have been in?

[CrimsonGuard101]

Okay what do you consider the best to be then? Resolute? Even that had its problems.

Not in the visual department, Resolute had the best designs of any Joe cartoon yet, the characters just popped off the screen, were instantly recognizable and they followed the whole updating process the 25th/ME/POC ideology encompassed by providing updated modern visages of our favortie Joes from the past...not some Gotta Cacth'em all on the run Weebelo's after school special.... But the really sad story is Resolute got 1 small episode compared to the TWENTY FOUR count them TWENTY four episodes of an entire season of Renegades...what could have Resolute done in that time frame? Who knows, it never got the chance Renegades did...so those who love Renegades should be SUPER thankful for that...

[Fox]

Story was okay and it was a nice take on things but Joes shouldn't be fighting slime monsters and the character designs were absolutely atrocious.

It is like a eating a decent Hamburger that looked like someone took a crap on top of. Tastes fine as look as you don't look at it.

[DKV]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_xyIMGraypEg/THonwsTU4tI/AAAAAAAAAhg/e1FRZwMqDO8/s1600/gijoe4.jpg
or
http://generalsjoes.com/renegades/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/renegades_credits.jpg

[CrimsonGuard101]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_xyIMGraypEg/THonwsTU4tI/AAAAAAAAAhg/e1FRZwMqDO8/s1600/gijoe4.jpg
or
http://generalsjoes.com/renegades/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/renegades_credits.jpg

Resolute SE all the way....the bottom pick looks like a terrible kids halloween costume...with some 10 year old playing the part...and he didnt appear with that stupid ninjaesque music every scene...

[Brcall]

I liked the art of Resolute, but I liked the story and acting in Renegades better. As a matter of fact, I had several guys at work come to me saying how they loved the show after watching it with their kids. I hope they bring it back.

[cobracobra]

The show for me skirted around a couple of existing current cartoon programs and visually a little too Ben 10 for me design wise the monsters and robots and vehicles.
Hated the portrayal of DR. Mind bender and Zartan both were definite mess-ups on my.
And this entire lineage of how they all met in college is really annoying. After a introduction to GI JOE vs. Cobra in ROC we get another one with Renegades right afterwords and it is completely different.
I understand that its all about reintroducing characters to younger audiences but I feel like it could of revolved around the movie ideas a little more.
Pursuit of Cobra was on my mind the two years Renegades was being aired and wish Renegades was something a little more geared to the second film.
But I did enjoy the show in all other regards.

[jmc2915]

i couldn't watch it i hated the animation. it looked like something mike judge threw together. the stories could have been great but if the animation isn't solid i lose interest

[lazlo76]

For me if the animation isn't up to par then I can't concentrate on the storyline, I hated how everyone was drawn with flat noses, even Scarlett you'd think with her being the only Joe woman she'd be drawn prettier.

[Griff]

the biggest issue with renegades (aside fromn the unrealstic, impreportionate artwork) was a lack of direction and design. The toon seemed to be all over the place with only throwing a bone/nod to old characters...and i mostly blame that on this new "Core"character mentality bullsh&t. gi joe and transformers suffer because all we see are the same "core" characters every episode and then if there IS an old school fave iuntroduced (shipwreck snow job wheeljack etc) they arent made a mainstay and just guest in an episode or two. To me THATS what hurt renegades and is whats hurting transformers. and yes i know the ratings are good for the new tf toon but eventually it will start to suffer the same fate.

[samantha]

I enjoyed the show. I guess I do not require much. I enjoyed seeing the ground building and background motivations for each character.

[brock Samson]

The story quality was poor. The animation style was awful and difficult to overlook since the point of the show is to watch. A big fail is that it wasn't used as a marketing vehicle for vehicles. Though figs came out, they had no vehicle toys based on the show but the vtol and it sucked. Why reinvent vehicles when they could simply take existing molds and make animated counterparts.

[General Hawk]

The reasons why G.I. Joe: Renegades "failed" may likely never be known, but it wasn't because of the audience. G.I. Joe: Renegades was the second highest rated animated series on the Hub, only behind Transformers: Prime.

As part of our podcast, and as part of GeneralsJoes, I've had the opportunity to speak with many folks involved in the production of the series and to a man, they all say the show got great ratings and performed exceptionally well. Nobody really knows why it got canceled other than the fact that Hasbro decided to go in another direction with the Retaliation film and honestly did want to bring both universes "in line".

[hotmitts]

I liked the series and watched it all through. If we're on the critical side in this thread, then my main one is that it lacked some emotional content, in comparison to other 'toons. Planet Hulk, Ultimate Avengers have some character conflicts that are well portrayed, just some emotional moments that really give the stories a bit of meat.
Plus the story arc was slow, you knew that every time they got evidence against Cobra they'd lose it anyway!

On the positive side,: Cobra being a multi-national, the voice actors were good, I like some of the re-invented characters.

[Wylde Weezle]

I liked Renegades for what it was, and prefer it over what we got in Sigma 6 and the direct to DVD entertainment for Spytroops and VvV.
It's a strange chapter in GI Joe...develop 2 waves of action figures after pouring a lot of money into a season worth of animated shows and then pull the plug? It seems a lack of direction on Hasbro's part. I say it failed because we should've had two more waves to get us a Dr. Mindbender, Baroness, Roadblock, Flint and Lady Jaye at least.

[RolandofGilead]

The reasons why G.I. Joe: Renegades "failed" may likely never be known, but it wasn't because of the audience. G.I. Joe: Renegades was the second highest rated animated series on the Hub, only behind Transformers: Prime.

As part of our podcast, and as part of GeneralsJoes, I've had the opportunity to speak with many folks involved in the production of the series and to a man, they all say the show got great ratings and performed exceptionally well. Nobody really knows why it got canceled other than the fact that Hasbro decided to go in another direction with the Retaliation film and honestly did want to bring both universes "in line".

I think that's it. The show was by no means a failure. The only reason the show was put on "hiatus" was because they wanted to go back and re-work the show to better fit into the new movie's continuity. Now whether that means the same show with slight alterations, or something else entirely I don't think anyone knows.

I agree they seemed to have their hands tied by dumbing down the potential violence with the various Bio Vipers. But the show was excellent, well written, and made by people who really cared about GI Joe and knew it's history. I'm sorry, but the same cannot be said of the guy who wrote Resolute.

[blackbarn]

I didn't like the art at all when I first saw it online, and didn't like the concept of Cobra as a pharmaceutical company, etc. etc. But after I saw the show and got into it, everything worked and I loved it all. Great characters, story, and on and on.

GI Joe, to me, is Larry Hama's creation and the Marvel comics I read as a kid. But there is room for new interpretations, and Renegades was easily second best* after the comics. I suspect many who hate it have not given it a chance and never tried to see what they were going for with it.

Not sure how it was "cancelled" when the story had an ending... seems to me it just ended, and that was planned.

*I also liked Resolute, but it was far from perfect, with a lot of exposition and no character depth to Storm Shadow.

[DKV]

Clone Wars on cartoon network is on season 4, because there ratings are sky high, they have a tone of viewers, are on basic cable, and have a great story line...

[SonOfMindbender]

The problem for me was seeing Resolute on TV first. I felt it raised the bar for things to come. When Renegades launched to me it was an A-Team cartoon spin off with Ninja. I stuck with it for 7 weeks and quite frankly forgot it was there. I hate TF Prime more if it makes people feel better.

[ChaplainAsst]

Clone Wars on cartoon network is on season 4, because there ratings are sky high, they have a tone of viewers, are on basic cable, and have a great story line...

Let's be honest: the Clone Wars is doing so well because it is Star Wars. Often the stories are really horrible. Often! I own seasons one and two that were pretty good but it has completely lost its way. The show has no real purpose or sense of direction. The funny thing is that the original Clone Wars cartoons (the short 5 minute toons) directed you more towards the story that was occuring between the movies. How many times have Obi-Wan and Grievous or Anakin and Dooku fought in the cartoon? In Revenge, it seemed like Grievous had never fought Obi-Wan, nor that Anakin and Obi-Wan had never had a shot at Dooku since their last battle. In their struggle to create relevance to the viewer, they are forced to insert stories that aren't jiving with the mythology in the movies. Little is being explained that wasn't already known. The recreation of Darth Maul was sad.

The Clone Wars keeps coming back because it is Star Wars.

[CrimsonGuard101]

Let's be honest: the Clone Wars is doing so well because it is Star Wars. Often the stories are really horrible. Often! I own seasons one and two that were pretty good but it has completely lost its way. The show has no real purpose or sense of direction. The funny thing is that the original Clone Wars cartoons (the short 5 minute toons) directed you more towards the story that was occuring between the movies. How many times have Obi-Wan and Grievous or Anakin and Dooku fought in the cartoon? In Revenge, it seemed like Grievous had never fought Obi-Wan, nor that Anakin and Obi-Wan had never had a shot at Dooku since their last battle. In their struggle to create relevance to the viewer, they are forced to insert stories that aren't jiving with the mythology in the movies. Little is being explained that wasn't already known. The recreation of Darth Maul was sad.

The Clone Wars keeps coming back because it is Star Wars.

agree, comparing gi joe to star wars just never works

[TheSerpentKing]

My only grips about Renegades was the art style and to a lesser degree the Bio-Vipers. I would have preferred the art to be more like Resolute's and B.A.T.s instead of Bio-Vipers. Despite those two complaints, I really enjoyed Renegades take on the Joes. Very few TV shows nowdays that can draw me in to where I make sure I watch every episode when they air.

[loiosh]

I wont say it sucks, I just didnt care for the Animation style. I thought the story, on the few episodes I have seen were great, the spin on dr mindbender and a few others were nice to see.

[Yoo Joe]

I wont say it sucks, I just didnt care for the Animation style. I thought the story, on the few episodes I have seen were great, the spin on dr mindbender and a few others were nice to see.

I didnt like how they made him so young and I thought some of the things he said were corny

[gruppenfuhrer88]

I didnt like how they made him so young and I thought some of the things he said were corny

I agree and approve of this statement^ The young Mindbender idea sucked.

[Troops of Doom]

It started off good, but then came the monsters, super powers, alternate dimensions and the lame cliched return of Ripcord.

[Omega 8]

I don't think Renegades sucked, I enjoyed it and watched every episode but it was far from perfect. Plot holes, the Duke/Flint rivalry. Ripcord..... ugh. All that said it was entertaining and I hsppend to enjoy the art. It's nice to see new incarnations of these classic characters.

I do have to say though, Resolute >>>>>> Renegades. IMO Resolute is the best Joe media we've ever had on screen.

[spazzy]

probably because it didn't

^^^ this

[Waspinator]

It wasn't all bad. But I feel it needed more characters added to the team and I was never a big fan of Duke leading a small squad on the run from Flint. It's suppose to be Gi Joe vs. Cobra not Gi Joe vs. Gi Joe vs. Cobra.

[CrimsonGuard101]

Only way I would have enjoyed it is if the visual had been better.

All they needed to do was carry over the animation style Resolute set the bar at I would have been glued to the TV set. I am a visual creature...devil is in the details...if I see Metal Gear Solid 3/BF3/Ghost in the SHell/Resolute style animation and details i am all over it...when I see Family Guy or King of the HIll..I don't expect to find a real thought out modernized GI JOE cartoon based in it...unless its a Family Guy paraody with Duke and Flint hangging out in Quohog with Peter and Stewie fighting Cobra who took over Pretoria...I couldn't get passed the visuals and terrible animation quality (it was not on Dish in HD when it launched, huge no no, new stuff should always be broadcast in HD from day one). If it was more animated computer graphcis wise, like the way they did Prime and of course Clone Wars...those visuals are killer and CLoen wars is in Friggen 5.1 Dolby Digital surround and all i get out of renegades is 2D Stereo...sounds great on my Zennith 19 inch woody TV set...... I might have been more inclined to give it more of a chance...I didnt get to pay attention to the story at all cause it was all over the place, too many cameos of characters that never returned and terrible character dialogue. Blame on my ADD babey or LSD or PCP....

[TheSerpentKing]

I do have to say though, Resolute >>>>>> Renegades. IMO Resolute is the best Joe media we've ever had on screen.

Agreed! I'm still bummed we didn't get more Resolute.

[MFJayman]

I wont say it sucks, I just didnt care for the Animation style. I thought the story, on the few episodes I have seen were great, the spin on dr mindbender and a few others were nice to see.

Glad to see Mindbender get some love. He was one of my favorite character overhalls in the show (along with Major Bludd and Serpentor). I loved how horribly prickish and arrogant he was, how he would even be condescending to Destro (basically calling the brilliant Scotsman a "dumb simian", ha) to the point where Destro would have knocked him out if his lady hadn't stepped in.

I really hated Mindbender, which was great.

[MFJayman]

I liked it quite a bit. I think in hindsight it would have been more successful as a series of about 2-3 mini series. The first would have basically condensed the whole season one into 5 episodes. The next one would have been Joe vs Cobra in a more traditional sense. And then the 3rd could have been an adaptation of any of a number of popular story lines from the comics or the original cartoon.


This would have essentially given us 3 movies that they could have then packaged in a box type set with behind the scenes stuff.


I’m also of the mind that the show might have been well served to be condensed down into fewer episodes. I liked the overall concept of the show (I guess Paramount kinda does too?) but I think they may have stretched it a bit much, resulting in some filler episodes and a perceived “slowness” of story progression in parts of the season, as some have mentioned.

Perhaps 12 episodes (organized as 2 mini-series) as opposed to 26 could have made it tighter, more concise, more focused and faster paced.

Overall though, I liked it. I was always excited to see how the next episode would play out. Some eps were bad, many were good, some were great.

[Jettfire]

I love everything about Renegades. The characters, design, animation, and story are all high points.

[ChucklesCID]

It had it's good parts. Story telling was pretty good. But I still can't get over their Charlie Brown big stupid noses. Sorry folks, but they looked like Charlie Brown characters to me. Oh and Roadblock was about 200lbs overweight to be in any military outfit. That one drove me nuts too!

[tuan_tran73]

Animation style is too weird for me. Look at snake eyes legs and other characters - Is that reminded you Ronald McDonalds? Looks to me the entire casts were drew based around Ronald McDonalds figure, well except for RoadBlock. He looks like Ronald McDonalds after having 2 months of BigMac. :D

[Lantern_Lad]

I thought Renegades was great...

It did take me a few episodes to really care... because I found the first few rather boring, but it did pick up pretty quick. I enjoyed all of the characters (with the exception of Mindbender, I thought he was just annoying).

I recently rewatched Resolute, and there were some areas of dialogue that just left me scratching my head. Which I remembered from my first time watching it... but I just went with it.

[Viper6]

animation sucked, cobra was poorly executed/stylized, and the weapons were BS, also bio vipers? boooooooooooooo

[zedhatch]

There's a ton of things I just didn't like about Renegades, to name a few:

Scarlett constantly looked like she had just had her butt pinched by clutch (although I thought the figure based on that look was much better).

Too much like A-Team in some ways.

Storm Shadow looked like a reject from Mummu's Alive.

SS's chain grew to about 30 feet at one point.

Firefly-UUUUGH! Don't get me started.

Roadblock laying on the ground 2 feet away from a fire, just clamly saying "hurry up" while the house came down around him. There is just ways to play things TOO COOL (i.e. no real threat because you are a main character and won't die) you know.

Snake Eyes coming out of nowhere, saving the day and disappearing the first few times he showed up.

Designs overall, too lanky and out of proportion.

AAAAANNND that's just a few things

[MFJayman]

renegades was complete shit cause the story line. gi joe were not criminals, falsely accused or not. they were heroes as the name itself applies. they arent the god damn A-team.

It sounds like you'll be having some pretty harsh words for Retaliation too, then. I mean, isn't the premise very similar? The Joes are framed (and in Retaliation nearly wiped out), and hunted by a "good" Cobra (in Retaliation as the Joes' replacement special forces anti-terrorism unit) with the backing of the US government?

Frankly, it would almost seem as though both Renegades and Retaliation sprang from the same initial concept.

[Drawing Heat]

As a A-Team fan, I liked the idea of them being on the run BUT I just don't think it was executed well.

As others pointed out, the animation and designs were hideous. And even with the poor animation, there is no reason why more characters didn't retain their iconic look (Storm Shadow, Roadblock looked very generic)

Alot of what I saw felt like filler. Every time a bio-viper showed up I wanted to change the channel.

The voice talent was great though, I'll give it that.

[Viper6]

It sounds like you'll be having some pretty harsh words for Retaliation too, then. I mean, isn't the premise very similar? The Joes are framed (and in Retaliation nearly wiped out), and hunted by a "good" Cobra (in Retaliation as the Joes' replacement special forces anti-terrorism unit) with the backing of the US government?

Frankly, it would almost seem as though both Renegades and Retaliation sprang from the same initial concept.

a concept as old as the alternate reality joe cartoon from the 80s

[Headman]

This is addressed to those that really didnt like Renegades. Not trying to instigate a flame war, but I've read comments here and there from those that really disliked the cartoon, which I thought was brilliant, and was hoping to get some specific reasons as to why people didnt like it as much as I did.

BTW I always hated the original ARAH cartoon, and dropped out of GI Joe from around 91 till Sigma 6. I lived Sigma 6, and Resolute, but think GI Joe needed a serious reboot and the development of the characters was really appreciated. Renegades certainly wasn't perfect, but I really liked more than I disliked. . .

It's mostly the anal bleeding that I don't like.

[Dragasses]

the drawring style and the fact that the writers of the A-team, rewrote the A-team? yup.

it grew on me, but coulda been a whole lot better.

wait, I got in late, what'd I miss?
It's mostly that anal bleeding that I don't like.
nevermind.

[nilcam]

The only thing about Renegades that sucks is that we're not getting more episodes.

[footloose]

Renegades was great. Was a fresh take on gi joe. I really enjoyed it. Would like more renegades figs as well as another season

[blackman2005]

Question: Why did Renegades suck?

Answer: Because Hasbro missed the mark with linking a toy line with a television series.

At times it hurts my brain to ask why Hasbro operates the way it does. The formula is quite simple for success, a long running media outlet that performs as a platform for advertising YOUR PRODUCT!!!!

Hasbro missed the opportunity of placing the launch of Renegades figures and vehicles along with the cartoon on the Hub. I can't figure out why, but Hasbro knows more about that.

As far as the cartoon itself, the artwork was over stylized with each character looking like full lipped Asian teenagers with small ankles and tiny waists. Also, laser blasters in 2011 is pretty dumb when every kid knows more about guns then we did back at eight.
Also, the Viper aspect wasn't a highly trained Cobra trooper but some lab experiment gone wrong. The Joes spent much of there time fighting booger monsters and running from place to another.
The theme got dry pretty quick since the possibility of creating new stories with such a small scope is very finite.

[Mapleleaf]

When Renegades first came on my first reaction was like many it was an A-team rip off to be sure. But I did give it a chance and grew to appreciate it for what it was. But I do think that some things should have been worked out a bit better and I will site my examples.
1. the Bio Vipers were a crutch to use. Every single time it seemed the Joes were fighting Cobra it was against Bio-Vipers. It made it seem that the entire Viper squad even had to be the jello mold soldier instead of a squad of trained soldiers. But I must admit the idea of storm shadow controlling the Ninja vipers was interesting.
2. Core cobra Characters didn't fight much and when they did it felt the writers didn't want to let them get their hands dirty much. Except for Storm Shadow.
3. Much of the character development took too long to get on track which threw pacing of stories off.
4. ( And I do agree with many on this) the idea that Rip cord was fused with Bio-viper abilities. I mean it did feel like a cop-out to developing another strong back story for him.

But having identified my four points , I still like it for what it was. It did have great cameo's even if it was hard to first identify them, and when it did pick up its pacing it was strong both in story and action. So if asked would I have wanted to have seen a second season my answer would have been yes.

[Star Saber]

The only thing about Renegades that sucks is that we're not getting more episodes.

Haha, this! It was a well written series and gave us a GI Joe team we've never seen before, I'd say it probably influenced the new movie, with the heroes on the run from the government as well.

[crock master]

i tried to watch every episode more than 5 times, and i can say that is only because i fell asleep during every episode as it was aired.
this is no joke. i literally fell asleep during every episode. maybe it was lack of entertaining music, weak conversations and mostly cobra was weak in my opinion.
me being prodominatly a cobra fan, i was left watching a bunch of guys in a van listen to a cocky woman . the entire season.
i personally dont see kids watching this and actually liking it, and if kids did like it, it was only because they didnt know any better

[CrocPotMaster]

The "art". It kept me from being able to look at the screen. I've heard it's a very well written show, I'd just have to watch it pretending to be blind.

[Scorpion]

I thought that it was weak in the beginning, but got pretty good in the end. With a bit of tweaking it would be a good prequel...

[MrHateAol]

ARAH was not a great "character" or "story-arc" cartoon, but what it had that no other iteration of animated Joe has is the idea that this REALLY is a military outfit. You could believe that GI Joe was a branch of the military and had the resources and scope to pull off world-travelling missions. Since then the concept has been watered down a bit to the point where it became a small, limited in numbers team usually facing a far greater power and forced to work more-or-less covertly.

Artwork issues are in reality smoke-screen. You either like the show or you don't. Renegades was a a good show, it updated the characters without dismissing the past, and added to our Joeverse lexicon. It didn't suck.

Also, the artwork didn't suck either. I watched the show originally on my LCD TV on a 26" screen (not a rich man, people... deal with it!!!) and was not really able to appreciate the animation work too much. Later I re-watched some of the episodes on my older traditional TV and the backgrounds and even the foregrounds looked miles better.

Since everything is hi-def nowadays you young kids with your Sony Walkman Cassette Players and your hoola hoops don't know how good you've got it.

Now eat your vittles and do your chores and shut up and just watch the damned cartoon and like it! That's the way we did it when I was a kid and we LIKED IT!!!!

(whew..... where did THAT come from?)

[dpstro]

ARAH was not a great "character" or "story-arc" cartoon, but what it had that no other iteration of animated Joe has is the idea that this REALLY is a military outfit. You could believe that GI Joe was a branch of the military and had the resources and scope to pull off world-travelling missions. Since then the concept has been watered down a bit to the point where it became a small, limited in numbers team usually facing a far greater power and forced to work more-or-less covertly.


This is exactly what I wanted to say. Just didn't know the words. Renegades didn't feel like any of them were in the military to me.

[sbartek1974]

I think Renegades sucked because no one knows a great cartoon when they see one these days.

[Xenos]

I don't think Renegades sucked, but I do think that they really only had enough material for about half a season, but they tried to stretch the story out to a full season, so it kind of dragged at points. Also, I do wish they had played the episodes in the correct order.

[MrHateAol]

Well, at least now that Renegades is over we can sit down and watch a completely different movie where the Joes ARN'T a small limit-in-numbers band of soldiers fighting a vastly superior enemy who has public support and political and military superiority. The change of pace will be....

Oh crap...

[CG82]

The art was awful and the storylines dull. It lacked the charisma of the even the campy old and low IQ sunbow toons. Habsro doesnt seem interested in giving the GI JOE franchise the A treatment and seem to target a very infantile audience. Stuff like Star Wars and Transformers Prime no matter their minor faults still superior by far and and reach the the appropriate target age & audience for even young adults to enjoy. Had Hasbro made the series GI Joe Resolute they wouldve had a real winner on their hands and not another dud in a long line of dud Joe toons.

[MrHateAol]

Wait... you're comparing Renegades unfavorably against Transformers Prime? I like Prime, but seriously, get real... Prime is far worse than Renegades in terms of feeling "small" and removed from the concept. The CGI is usually so dark as to make most of the detail unreadable, and the universe they live in is limited, unpopulated and lacks any sense of reality.

By contrast, the Renegades Joes moved freely through realistic communities and across large swathes of territory.

Also, the storytelling in Renegades is superior. The characterizations in Prime are better, but the stories are incredibly basic, despite having far more time to develop their characters.

Won't even touch Clone Wars... it's good, but forgettable...

[bumbarusher]

I've been on both sides of this argument. When i first caught an episode of renegades at a friend's place, i was all 'WHAT IS THIS HORRIBLE SHIT VERSION OF MY CHILDHOOD!?!?'.

typical nerd rage.

When they put it on netflix streaming i gave it another chance because honestly there wasnt anything else worth watching. I ended up really digging it. Not all the decisions mind you (zartan's origins and RB's mutton chops) but the vast majority of it was great.

as other people have pointed out in this thread the updated character designs were well done for the most part, and most payed homage to the original looks that we grew up with. The introduction of new and redesigned characters every couple episodes was also a great idea. It kept me excited about each new episode.

One thing that i dont THINK has been touched upon in this thread is the quality of the animation, specifically in regards to fight choreography. These are not john wayne style 'one-hitter-quitter' style melee's. They have rhythm, technique, and aesthetic. This is something we arent used to seeing, even in large animated productions, where the japanese trend of showing bright lights and flash art followed by delayed reactions has been the norm (presumably for better impact). More than once while watching a sequence of snake eyes' combat in renegades did i ask myself "who was tech advising the choreo? and how awesome is it that they drew him doing a back lay-out instead of a back tuck?" or soemthing to that effect.

i dunno, if you dont like it, you dont like it. But if you are a joe fan from the RAH days, give it a second shot. thats my 2 cents.

[Griffin73]

1. Bad animation
2. Poor storyline
3. Repeated overuse of main characters (just like on TF:Prime)

Need I go on.

[nilcam]

I see a lot of comments about the animation. While I can see the art being everyone's cup of tea, the animation itself is quite smooth, especially the fight sequences. I don't get that criticism.

I love the storyline and the element of the Joes laying the groundwork for the G.I. Joe team as well as helping Cobra grow. I also give Renegades props for making Duke likeable and making Tunnel Rat a total badass. Also, best Baroness EVER!

The SS/SE relationship was amazingly well-done in Renegades and really overshadowed Resolute's take.

[MrHateAol]

Liked Bumbarush's comments on the previous page especially. Fight Choreography is hard to pull off realistically, and Rene did that.

Additionally, yes, some of the specifics in character design were a bit... esoteric... but to be honest, you couldn't make Major Bludd interesting to me if he was re-designed as Charlize Theron in a chainmail thong... (where DO I come up with these mental images?????).

Anyhow, it wasn't a perfect show, and it's a story arc I'm getting a bit tired of, but it was a good solid addition to the line.

There now. I've settled this. You can all go home now....


Go on....

[Steve T]

It didn't suck, it was really good. I wouldn't say that the animation was bad, I might say that it was different. The story was great, they had it all set up for season wo with a nice Joe roster and Cobra exposed as an evil group. I would like to see more. I'm 32, I wonder if kids liked it.

[Cerebral Dissolution]

I like the animation, and honestly it looks a lot like what I see on TV these days. I mean, Batman, The Avengers, etc, are actually worse.

I know Resolute is the best, but to say ARAH or anything else was better makes me wonder if we're all thinking of the same show. I grew up over seas so all I had were a few comics, but when I came back and saw ARAH on tv, I was embarrassed. GI Joe ARAH was terrible. So was saying Yo Joe every 2 minutes. And Cobra was a bunch of fumbling dummies.

I am one of the few that actually liked Sigma 6, and I understand how many didn't. But it sure beat what I saw of VvV, DIC, and whatever else came before. Resolute was cool, but GI Joe still needed a reboot. Sigma 6 wasnt accepted, ROC did a terrible job. So if you can't fall back on Renegades, I am not sure what you can fall back on.

[Kaboomskie]

Mindbender annoyed the frack out of me.

[Griff]

I see a lot of comments about the animation. While I can see the art being everyone's cup of tea, the animation itself is quite smooth, especially the fight sequences. I don't get that criticism.

I love the storyline and the element of the Joes laying the groundwork for the G.I. Joe team as well as helping Cobra grow. I also give Renegades props for making Duke likeable and making Tunnel Rat a total badass. Also, best Baroness EVER!

The SS/SE relationship was amazingly well-done in Renegades and really overshadowed Resolute's take.


I think in regards to animation criticsm...its not realistic in its detail and preportions (the animation was too lanky on the chicks and too bulky on some fo the guys, the faces were gaut and angular..all of them for the most part, ) sunbows fluidity is pathetic by todays comaprisons, but cartoons all seem to have this lack of detail and block cartooniness to them. A good Example of detailed, slightly impreportionate but better than Renegades was the 200x he man toon. Its animation wasnt PERFECT but if renegades had gone that style or hell even GI JOE EXTREME..with todays tech, could have smoothed out rough edges and had the aniamtion fluid as well as detailed and preportioned properly.

[eddy-arashikage]

Ive been watching streams online and from what I have seen I like it! Don't see what the problem with the animation is, sure the style is diffrent from the sunbow days but then so is every other cartoon, its similar to all the other kids cartoons out there, it air on a channel called the hub a childrens channel.

I can see why people moaned about the a-team type theme going on but IO don't mind changes as long as they look good it worked for me, But I guess I may be less fussier then a lot of the GI Joe 'fans' on here.

I don't get why people wan't to compare this to resolute its a diffrent format it was never meant to carry on, so its pace was faster you didn't get a great deal of character development.

Even the jello viper was not the best idea but lets not forget the monster in arise serpentor arise or the fatal fluffies, all the joeverse has its faults but it could have been much worse and its certainly way better then nothing at all!

[SNAKE_EYES1975]

Overuse of characters, I got bored of those guys quick. At least the ARAH stuff gave u someone different all the time.

As for the animation...to me, its just odd and off-putting. It's not "realistic" to me, its not cartoony...its a wierd mix that just did not make me say "wow...that looks cool"

[nilcam]

I think in regards to animation criticsm...its not realistic in its detail and preportions (the animation was too lanky on the chicks and too bulky on some fo the guys, the faces were gaut and angular..all of them for the most part, ) sunbows fluidity is pathetic by todays comaprisons, but cartoons all seem to have this lack of detail and block cartooniness to them. A good Example of detailed, slightly impreportionate but better than Renegades was the 200x he man toon. Its animation wasnt PERFECT but if renegades had gone that style or hell even GI JOE EXTREME..with todays tech, could have smoothed out rough edges and had the aniamtion fluid as well as detailed and preportioned properly.

The best animated shows on U.S. TV now are Young Justice and The Legend of Korra. Both have good fight choreography and very fluid animation, though Korra is more realistic in movement and choreography. While Renegades is a notch below these, it's still quite good. The art style, which a lot of people seem to dislike, really appeals to me.

[Headman]

This is not my GI Joe! Truck not munky!


j/k, seriously though. It was boring. Is that a good enough reason to hate it?

[the odinson]

This is not my GI Joe! Truck not munky!


j/k, seriously though. It was boring. Is that a good enough reason to hate it?

yep.

[Havok]

I just want to state first that I'm a big fan of Renagades and for the most Part it was a great show. My only complaint was the writing for the characters of Tomax and Xamot, and Zartan. I would have liked to see the twins getting started in the business side of Cobra like Extensive enterprises. The brothers of the Light deal was too far off character for them. And, it's just hard to put a finger on Zartan, but it could have been pulled off better. I would have liked to have seen the Dreadnoks living in a swamp, and definetly having Australlian and English accents. Plus Zartan being a master of linguistics, and a leader of men, instead of just a simple thug Biker punk.

[Havok]

The best animated shows on U.S. TV now are Young Justice and The Legend of Korra. Both have good fight choreography and very fluid animation, though Korra is more realistic in movement and choreography. While Renegades is a notch below these, it's still quite good. The art style, which a lot of people seem to dislike, really appeals to me.

Personally I'm really enjoying Transformers Prime, Star Wars the Clone Wars, and Green Latern the Animated series. But, I've been meaning to check out Young Justice.

[Hicks_Royel]

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b290/CyberTooth88/f-.png= Failure

[pyro678]

I liked it but hated the bio vipers and the fact ripcord was one. Just seemed like they needed to be in ben 10 or a men in black cartoon

[ndb]

I liked it but hated the bio vipers and the fact ripcord was one. Just seemed like they needed to be in ben 10 or a men in black cartoon

Honestly, yes. They really didn't fit. But when the human vs. human action was where the show shined.

[mikey77]

It didnt it was awesome...

[Smokebomb]

It didnt.

[Otomo]

Ugly character design killed it for me, paired with choppy cheap animation.

Cartoons are an art form that can be extremely beautiful....this was the animated equivalent of the dollar menu at McDonald's.

Maybe the stories and characters and voice actors were compelling? I'll never know cause the animation and design was so awful it turned me off at first glance.

[Shipshape1983]

It was boring.

[crock master]

It was boring.

agreed, i dozed off during many of the episodes . i dont just mean a few, i mean almost all of them.even the ones i thought i would want to see, like the dreadnoks episode and crimson twins episode.
just plain weak. they should just go ahead and give it the anima treatment. then they can go way overboard on the ninja and just blow everything out of proportion. i would rather over the top in this situation than have to watch another renegades season

[ROC Solid Snake]

Honestly? Because it wasn't ARAH or Resolute. I was skeptical initially, when news of Resolute made the rounds. However after seeing it that night on Cartoon Network, I was in love, again, from the start. Both of those were beautiful, lush, vivid and colorful. Comparing Resolute to Renegades is comparable to comparing Sunbow to Dic; there is no comparison. Renegades was kind of dull, drab and boring. My opinion only; not the Gospel.