I'm really annoyed with the ninja thing

[Cerebral Dissolution]

This is building for awhile, but the whole idea of what modern ninjas would be, not just in GI Joe, but in film, comics, etc as a whole is just becoming too ridiculous for me.

Like when I read comments on SS's tennis shoes as opposed to sandles in ROC, or whether one would wear armor as SE is being shown in Retaliation, etc, just makes me think how misinterpreted Ninjas really are.

First and foremost, Ninjas were not the most honorable people in Japanese society back in the day, and if you ask any Japanese person today who they would rather be, ninja or samurai, 99.99% would say samurai.

The ninjas crept around in the dark, spied, sometimes assassinated, using everything from their farmer clothing to their black pajamas to whatever means necessary to get the job done. Completely opposite from the samurai.

If there was a ninja today, he'd really be more closely related to Special Forces, like a SEAL or Delta Force. Or even something more shadier like a CIA operative.

There is nothing mystical about Ninjas. They used swords and bows because that was what was available at the time, and I doubt any 'real' ninja today would bother bringing a sword anywhere. Probably would prefer silenced weapons and sniper rifles than any other weapon, and definately wouldnt be wearing sandles unless in under cover.

This is probably why I hate the 'red ninjas' the most. Or even the 'blue ninjas' I heard about in the classic GI Joe comic. Just ridiculous, and actual serves the opposite purpose of what a ninja is supposed to do, and that is be hard to detect.

Dont get me wrong, I love swords as much as the next guy, but in 2012 they are a backup weapon if at all, and given their weight and size I would take a pistol over one everytime. And a few 'Ninjas' here and there is ok, but a whole bunch resorting to weapons made obsolete hundreds of years ago is just silly.

I certainly wouldnt want SE or SS to lose their swords, I guess if anything just use them less. But I would love to see SS use a sniper rifle or submachine gun more often. And just dress normal for gods sake. You arent disguising anything wearing all white looking like a cosplay moron unless you were assassinating someone at a comic convention.

SS would have to be excellent at disguise, or at least in fitting in, something he never does in his outfit.

Same for the red ninjas. Fun back in ARAH issue 21. Ridiculous today.

[Troynos]

Yeah, I tend to agree.

Ninjas used whatever was available for the job. Ninjas today would be using more tech.

Sneakers would make more sense then sandals.

[screamers_ghost]

Very Well Put by the OP

exactly what I feel about the overuse of "ninjas"

[sbartek1974]

I have alot of Japanese engineers working with me and this would be a great question to ask. I never thought to ask them if they would rather be a ninja or samari. I would like to see what results I get.

But I do agree with you although I don't know the history or anything else about ninjas. But it has gotten way outta hand as far as how they are portrayed. And very unrealistic.

[Konigstiger]

Firefly is the most modern ninja-like character in the mythos.


And no, I'm not talking about the retconned actual ninja bullshit.

[sharky]

I have alot of Japanese engineers working with me and this would be a great question to ask. I never thought to ask them if they would rather be a ninja or samari. I would like to see what results I get.

But I do agree with you although I don't know the history or anything else about ninjas. But it has gotten way outta hand as far as how they are portrayed. And very unrealistic.
Dude, it was already out of hand back in the 80s. LOL!

[fireflyguy]

In just tired of the ninja thing altogether. I hadn't thought about ninjas being like spec ops, which is a little more appealing to me, but I still prefer the straight up military stuff.

[Hard-er Master]

Great point. I think that the original SE "Commando" concept was right on point with the updated, modern ninja. Storm Shadow was cool as a counterpoint to SE, and I always hoped that he was a character that showed up RARELY b/c he was such an obvious foil to SE...

So much for that.

[GI Guppy the third]

Pretty much on par with this. I forget which clan it was but it was one of the firsts were actually not of Japanese descent which probably fuels some the backlash as their interpretation of honor was quite different. I don't believe they were all part of the peasantry but the reason they were "allowed" to co exist with the samurai despite breaking every law and code of feudal Japan was because they were incredibly valuable to the daimyos.

If there really was such a thing as a modern ninja, they would prefer the use of silenced weapons, explosives, and probably use more poisons than any ninja has ever used before. They are the counter to what modern society is and with the advancement of law enforcement, if ninjas existed, they would prefer the quietest and least messy forms of assassination. There's a lot of ways to cover a poison's track and there are quite a few ways to make an arson or explosion look like an accident.

[Spectre]

If you want to know what a "modern" ninja would be like, research Yakuza.

[Hectoramirez]

Ninja in feudal Japan were Farmers/Peasants who were rebellious against the crooked government known as the shogunate. Ninja were Samurai and Samurai were Ninja. Samurai by day, Ninja by Night but not all. Ninja were rebellious citizens of Japan.

[Mermaniel]

Thats why I like Commando SE. Guns and a small sword for silent kills. Even quieter than a supressor. The way I see it in my verse, SS wears white because thats how he dresses when he's chillin. When he goes into combat, he's the Ninja-Ku leader. All black. I'm stillf gonna buy the Red and dragon Ninja cause they look cool, but if ninja's would be so great, there would be some today. I haven't heard of any assasinations lately where they found the victims slashed in half or decapitated...lol



Dan

[Tanksmasher]

I agree. I think history and mixed martial artists have proven what real fighting is and why stuff like Ninjas is more fantasy than fact.

[Hard-er Master]

Here's my attempt to clarify the "true" historical nature of the ninja:

Ninja - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja)

It's a thorough, well written entry, and it's citations and references are trustworthy. That being said, the original ninja were akin to the 1st Green Berets used in Vietnam, (though not yet state-sponsored) Modern Spec Ops soldiers and CIA/Intelligence agents serve the same roles as the ninja did in their time. The "modern ninja" would eschew the use of 400 year old weapons, but probably not the philosophy of espionage, tracking, and hand to hand combat. Snake Eyes seems to get this. Storm Shadow, not so much. Even as a kid, I liked the idea of the V2 Storm Shadow. Urban Camo and a modern compound bow. The idea of wearing white is a color that the warrior classes used for preparing to die, which is what I think Hama's original intent with SS was. That's cool; IF Storm Shadow wore that costume on the RARE occasion that he showed up with the sole intention of dueling SE to the death on some non-G.I. Joe/ Cobra business.

All that to say, yeah, the ninja thing is way overdone and woefully dated to the point of being silly to anyone who understands what the ninja represent.

[Indiana Joe]

Ok. If this was a site NOT about Toy and Fictional stories and Characters I'd say yes right on!

But, It's not....

This IS a place for Toys and Fictional stories and characters
I Love STAR WARS I Love G.I.JOE. and Here's the thing, I LOVE NINJAS! i love the fake ass not realistic not true to actual reality magical mystery ninja pajamas sandals swords nun-chuck ninjas

BTW- This (what you said) is the same reason I don't like steven segal and jean claud van-damm movies.
to each his own.:)

[Dolemite]

This is building for awhile, but the whole idea of what modern ninjas would be, not just in GI Joe, but in film, comics, etc as a whole is just becoming too ridiculous for me.

Like when I read comments on SS's tennis shoes as opposed to sandles in ROC, or whether one would wear armor as SE is being shown in Retaliation, etc, just makes me think how misinterpreted Ninjas really are.

First and foremost, Ninjas were not the most honorable people in Japanese society back in the day, and if you ask any Japanese person today who they would rather be, ninja or samurai, 99.99% would say samurai.

The ninjas crept around in the dark, spied, sometimes assassinated, using everything from their farmer clothing to their black pajamas to whatever means necessary to get the job done. Completely opposite from the samurai.

If there was a ninja today, he'd really be more closely related to Special Forces, like a SEAL or Delta Force. Or even something more shadier like a CIA operative.

There is nothing mystical about Ninjas. They used swords and bows because that was what was available at the time, and I doubt any 'real' ninja today would bother bringing a sword anywhere. Probably would prefer silenced weapons and sniper rifles than any other weapon, and definately wouldnt be wearing sandles unless in under cover.

This is probably why I hate the 'red ninjas' the most. Or even the 'blue ninjas' I heard about in the classic GI Joe comic. Just ridiculous, and actual serves the opposite purpose of what a ninja is supposed to do, and that is be hard to detect.

Dont get me wrong, I love swords as much as the next guy, but in 2012 they are a backup weapon if at all, and given their weight and size I would take a pistol over one everytime. And a few 'Ninjas' here and there is ok, but a whole bunch resorting to weapons made obsolete hundreds of years ago is just silly.

I certainly wouldnt want SE or SS to lose their swords, I guess if anything just use them less. But I would love to see SS use a sniper rifle or submachine gun more often. And just dress normal for gods sake. You arent disguising anything wearing all white looking like a cosplay moron unless you were assassinating someone at a comic convention.

SS would have to be excellent at disguise, or at least in fitting in, something he never does in his outfit.

Same for the red ninjas. Fun back in ARAH issue 21. Ridiculous today.Fantastic post. I never really thought about this, but you're 100% right...real modern Ninja (if such a thing were to exist) would adapt their skills to modern equivalents of their weapons and tactics, as opposed to relying on stuff that's hundreds of years old. Remember that issue of GI Joe where SE and SS basically destroy Cobra Island with nothing but swords and throwing stars? That issue pissed me off.

But still...there IS a part of me that LOVES the idea of the traditional Ninja. So I deal with it, even when it gets outlandish.

[SonOfMindbender]

Ninja's should be a small side story, not a movie.

[musashi3000gt]

1. The plural of "Ninja" is "Ninja"! not "Ninjas".

2. Silent weapons like knifes, spears, swords and piano wire are used very often by Special Forces and assasins the world over. In the United States our SF guys rarely use these because they are very well equiped with deadlier and higher tech weapons but in developing nations and even some first rate military countries like Israel Mossad still trains extensively in silent Ninja-like weapons.

3. In real life a character like Snake Eyes running head long into a battle with his sword drawn would get turnned to swiss cheese in record time. But take that away from the comics, cartoons and other forms of Joe fiction and he looses all appeal.

[Dolemite]

1. The plural of "Ninja" is "Ninja"! not "Ninjas".This is correct.

[Raw Dog]

The ninja thing doesn't bother me that much. Ninja are cool. I do hope they produce an all black one (w/o a red dragon emblem) though as that is one figure I sorely need. Ninja are a phase. Enjoy it while it lasts. That's what I always. Pretty soon it will be robots and then aliens and when that happens you may just miss those rascally little ninja, lol. Just kidding. But seriously though, Retaliation looks like it is going to be the bomb!

[Beckley]

Vanilla Ice Ninja Rap - Go Ninja, Go Ninja GO! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFLGRidfFo4)

[Zarana]

1. The plural of "Ninja" is "Ninja"! not "Ninjas".



Both are accepted as correct in English.

[Riotheory]

I've worked hard to propagate an anti-ninja mentality in my kids, but they all want to play with Renegades SS. My little girl plays with Scarlett, Lady Jaye, and Snake Eyes.

In my Joe verse, all the ninja stuff is just ceremonial. I'm with whoever said the ninja should be a side story, not a movie. And I know it was lazy not to go back a page to just quote it.

R.

[Mapleleaf]

I love all the points made on this thread and everyone has made some valid points when it comes to the idea of the modern ninja.

But when it comes to applying it to whats in the Joe universe I look at it this way- With a cannon that has a highly trained special missions force, a terrorist organization with futuristic weapons, Zombies, a M.A.S.S device, a weather dominator, a pyramid of darkness, wrestlers, android troopers, a maguffin device, a brain wave scanner, spies, adventurers, a star brigade, ancient mutant civilizations, a super-trooper, a pro-football star,mercenaries and a biker gang , is it really that hard of a stretch to have Ninja( be it a modern take or the traditional image of the ancient assassin concept) in the mix with out having it seem to far fetched? I for one can't wait to see the Ninja aspect of it on the big screen and in the toy line

[pallidmask]

Ok. If this was a site NOT about Toy and Fictional stories and Characters I'd say yes right on!

But, It's not....

This IS a place for Toys and Fictional stories and characters
I Love STAR WARS I Love G.I.JOE. and Here's the thing, I LOVE NINJAS! i love the fake ass not realistic not true to actual reality magical mystery ninja pajamas sandals swords nun-chuck ninjas


This. Part of why I collect GI Joe is the nostalgia factor, and I grew up in the 80s, when ninjas were everywhere. And I loved it. Sure, SE and SS really have nothing to do with the actual reality, but it's all about suspension of disbelief, which, looking at the rest of the GI Joe universe, is almost mandatory.

But to each their own. If you're going hyper-realistic, throw in some special ops guys instead. Me, I like a mix of fantasy stuff in with mine. There are special ops dudes, but then there are the flying-on-wire, smokebomb-throwing, moving-undetected-while-wearing-white, superhuman warriors like I remember from American Ninja, Chinese Super Ninjas, lots of other 80s crap, and...old-school GI Joe.

That said, I do think Retaliation is coming on a little too strong with the ninja stuff. It's not the ninjas I mind, it's the over-saturation.

NINJA VANISH!

[Gyre-Viper]

stupid ninjas...
http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s437/jdsopodcast/ninjatease.jpg

[Tman]

1. The plural of "Ninja" is "Ninja"! not "Ninjas".

...

3. In real life a character like Snake Eyes running head long into a battle with his sword drawn would get turnned to swiss cheese in record time. But take that away from the comics, cartoons and other forms of Joe fiction and he looses all appeal.

The correct spelling of 'looses' has only one 'O'. Careful when you go Grammer Nazi, mate.

[Dem_Yoe'z!]

While I do like some use of ninjas, I agree with the OP that it has been totally overdone, especially in the new movie. I agree that the commando SE would be a good modern ninja, as would night creepers if they wore better colors

[SonOfMindbender]

My apologies for the use of Ninja's instead of Ninja. I have learned from this and hope to become a better person. I still think Ninja, is a side story and not a movie.

[Ford]

Has there ever been a better use of what something is, and what it's name is as "ninja"? Just the word itself is cool.

Anyway, I completely agree. I've gone back to reading the original Marvel run, and I really liked Storm Shadow when he first appeared. The only thing missing from the Renegades figure was a collapsable sniper rifle like he used in issue 24. He was just as much a soldier as Snake Eyes, so I'd really love to see a new commando version of SS. That first one from the G.I. Joe vs Cobra line with the red mask was actually a pretty good concept.

[Cerebral Dissolution]

Regardless I prefer Ninjas over Ninja.

If I walked into a room full of Ninjas, I would shout out "Ninjas!" to let everyone know there were a bunch, not "Ninja" and let everyone wonder if I meant singular or plural. That might slow down the ensuing battle.

[Cerebral Dissolution]

The only thing missing from the Renegades figure was a collapsable sniper rifle like he used in issue 24.

I completely forgot about this. So did Hamma I guess. Would have been cool to have seen SS lay waste with an assault rifle here and there. Or assassinate some peeps.

[CobraCrimson]

Yup, and with the Arashikage symbol splashed on every damn Retaliation item, it needs to stop!

[Indiana Joe]

Regardless I prefer Ninjas over Ninja.

If I walked into a room full of Ninjas, I would shout out "Ninjas!" to let everyone know there were a bunch, not "Ninja" and let everyone wonder if I meant singular or plural. That might slow down the ensuing battle.

HaHaHa, now that is funny!
Lookout Ninja!...let me clarify.. multiple ninja as in several I mean...awww crap! NINJAS! RUN! LOL

[Flint-wo2]

I agree with this 100%.

[Xsoldier]

this thread is in some desperate need of some Dudikoff!

[Indiana Joe]

this thread is in some desperate need of some Dudikoff!

Dudikoff Dudikoff Dudikoff
like that?

[RolandofGilead]

Are there ninja(s) in GI Joe? I hadn't noticed.

[gyrapados]

I love ninjas. Always have. I like the mystical aspect where SS and SE are superhuman warriors. I don't need them to be super realistic spec ops guys. Kills the whole point of it to me.

Plus I love the thought of SS being in all white. He isn't trying to blend in. He wants to be seen because when you see him, you are seeing death coming for you. that is all kinds of awesome.

oh and I think having a bunch of ninjas in Retalation will be amazing. Except for Roadblock being a ninja. that's just weird to me.

[orezona]

It's really REALLY hard for me to get nit-picky about ninjas when we are all in fact, on a website devoted to toys that were based on/related to comic books.

You guys must be fun at parties.

[Spectre]

Regardless I prefer Ninjas over Ninja.

If I walked into a room full of Ninjas, I would shout out "Ninjas!" to let everyone know there were a bunch, not "Ninja" and let everyone wonder if I meant singular or plural. That might slow down the ensuing battle.
Or would it be Ninji?

[musashi3000gt]

The correct spelling of 'looses' has only one 'O'. Careful when you go Grammer Nazi, mate.

Touche!

Regardless I prefer Ninjas over Ninja.

If I walked into a room full of Ninjas, I would shout out "Ninjas!" to let everyone know there were a bunch, not "Ninja" and let everyone wonder if I meant singular or plural. That might slow down the ensuing battle.

Thats........actually a really good point!

[CrimsonGuard101]

I will tell you this much...I would 100% rather the joes fight ninjas all day long then ZOMBIE/BIO vipers with a cameo by Mila Jovovoich flying across the screen killing them off and saying "oops, wrong set, which way to racoon city?"

[whiteknight]

From the literature on ninja (spelled that way whether singular or plural) that I had before (written by Stephen Hayes, then a modern practitioner of ninjutsu), the first ninja were monks who were persecuted by the different feudal lords. Of course, they had to train to use whatever they had, as swords such as katanas are illegal for anyone except samurai and soldiers. Rumor was also used to bloat the ninja's rep to the level of the supernatural. Some of them were real freedom fighters, using their skills to protect their clan and communities. Others turned to the "dark side," hiring out their special skill sets to anyone who could afford, including samurai and feudal lords.

To be fair, samurai were also romanticized, much like the knights of medieval Europe. But like their European counterparts, many samurai were abusive of their lofty social standing as warriors elite of the despotic lords they serve. Imagine soldiers, officers and secret police in banana republic dictatorships. Granted, ninja did operate much like the amoral black ops agents of today, samurai were no better.

[MeLikeJinx]

Vanilla Ice Ninja Rap - Go Ninja, Go Ninja GO! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFLGRidfFo4)
Doesn't get any better than that right there. Yup. LOL.

[whiteknight]

And yes, to go back on topic, I agree with the OP that ninja are overdone. Maybe this is why I loved that scene in the trailer where SS was throwing shurikens at SE and the latter was shooting at them with a pistol! SE the ninja-commando, right there. Reminds me of that scene in Renegades where SS was berating SE, "What can you do now?" to which SE pulls a grenade and pulls the pin.

[DarkHorse]

This thread needs more ninja.

[CornDog_The_Ninja]

<<<< Hates ninjas.

[drunknmunky]

If you're looking for realism, GI Joe is not for you. There are tons of ninjas (Ninja, ninji,, whatever you prefer). However there are also wanna be cowboys who still carry revolvers, bazooka soldiers, flying submarines, barefoot karate experts, men dressed as birds, chrome masks that move, mad bare chested scientists- the list goes on and on. Face it, GI Joe is a toy made for kids. Kids don't care about realism- kids have imagination. That's what toys are about. Use your imagination to come up with crazy battles, rescue missions, Ninja duels, space robots, zombie infestations, whatever you can think of. If you want realism, pick up those Special Forces (or whatever they're called) figures from Target. If you want to enjoy GI Joe for what it is then have an open mind and throw realism out the door. Remember, just because we grew up doesn't mean out toys did.

[FallenPrey]

There has been an interesting show running recently on the Smithsonian Channel about Ninjas and how they were trained and how they really lived. Check it out if you have a chance.

Ninja: Shadow Warriors - Smithsonian Channel (http://www.smithsonianchannel.com/site/sn/show.do?show=141184)

[VideoViper]

Ninjas train hard...
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-JdQsKislMSw/TjgvkjpKYBI/AAAAAAAAADA/gFIB5Daq9UY/s576/IMG00029-20110801-2331.jpg

Solders use Guns.....
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-5VKnV_qOKZg/TjqQPWNwt4I/AAAAAAAAAEA/8C0-DTrrnFE/s576/IMG00045-20110803-2052%2520final.jpg


Gordon cleans up the mess.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-KxEhrH4VIU8/TjqQO5kuFwI/AAAAAAAAAD8/YGsoECE6Tg8/s576/IMG00053-20110803-2106%2520final.jpg

[samantha]

I agree. It is very interesting how far the SE Ninja concept has come from his original Commando classification.

[skinny]

Someone mentioned Ninja vs Pirates.
If we would get a Sarawak Sally figure I'm game for that. Have a figure of her 7ft greatness and toss in Zanzibar and all her crew.
and I dont care what ninjas were in the set/wave

[judd]

Everything the OP said is totally accurate and his opinion is his own.

My opinion is that a toyline like GI Joe is free to break some rules and bend some realities to make things fun and interesting and to sell some toys/comics/other shit.

I know their history and have studied many of the finer aspects of the reality that is the ninja and the samurai.

And I fkn love the GI Joe ninjas. Bring 'em on and bring me more.

[jogunwarrior]

Everything the OP said is totally accurate and his opinion is his own.

My opinion is that a toyline like GI Joe is free to break some rules and bend some realities to make things fun and interesting and to sell some toys/comics/other shit.

I know their history and have studied many of the finer aspects of the reality that is the ninja and the samurai.

And I fkn love the GI Joe ninjas. Bring 'em on and bring me more.

Its as if you ninja'd yourself into my head and cut out my thoughts with a freshly sharpened kama.

[Angry.Android]

Yeah, I dig the zombies, ninjas, and robots...what I tire of are all the freaking military guys. If hasbro would just cut back on those we might get vampires or werewolves. And that would be really cool.

[bitetheasp]

Didn't bother to read the rest of this thread, but Firefly is the perfect ninja.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh3/thrallofwarcraft/nffifaa1.jpg

[PinewoodCobra]

Finally! People who really know the truth about ninja. But it is fun to imagine a bunch of people in modern times hacking away at each other with swords while wearing PJs.

[VideoViper]

I look at it like a Marvel crossover.... (which ironically it is)

You may read the Punisher, & Spiderman shows up. Their both there, even if you don't like Spiderman. They can be separte if you want them to be.

Joe is fun, Ninjas are fun, AT is fun, but I see them as separate things in the same universe that crossover from time to time

[Trigue]

I'm just waiting for them to change the title of the movie to "G.I.Joe: Retaliation staring Snake Eyes and Ninja Force". Might as well go all the way and make it 1993 again.